MFM's Youngster with Explosive Skill in Federation Cup.....

[oloye]

I am not sure that tbite is writing about any idea that is strange. If you have read Malcom Gladwell's well known book on developing talent then we showed all know that no one is Born with any of these. Countless hours of practice with or without a coach is critical. I am surprised that many doubt than a 14 year old can play with adults. It happens a lot in Nigeria. We had a kid of that age who trained with us at Nsukka then and you really did not want to be the guy designated to stop him. Peel and Maradona were already playing club soccer before debuting at 15 for their respective national teams.

But you can't develop what is not there.

Cell

That is why people spend hours working on it. For some they get to it quicker but they cannot get there without work. No one wakes up with talent. It just does not happen. Even Okocha and others spent countless hours on the street working. In Pele's book he describes hours spent playing on the streets.

Yes you do.

You wake up with superior athleticism- speed of coordination and balance that is superior to the average.
Practice then defines what follows. But there is a starting point for talent- the ability to naturally coordinate thought and physical activity at a level that is beyond the average..

The young boy you are describing above is probably Valentine Ugboma...

I simply gave up on this debate. There is enough evidence everywhere across every facet of life where basic skill is required to show that you can wake up or be born with skills or talent. There is a reason why Mohammed Ali was a damn good boxer and his elder brother could only try his gloves. One was born with it....I am sure his elder brother would have loved to be able to go to the Olympics and use boxing to escape from the hassles of Mississippi. Anyway txj I trust you to help Tbite see this.

[zee]

I made a distinction between talent and ability (I am using my own definitions here). I should have made that clear.

What is talent? What is raw? Do we call raw talent something developed outside of the academy?

I myself learned how to be a master dribbler at a young age, without every having a coach or watching anybody else. But was it raw? No! Dribbling is not raw! Ask any Okocha or any Pele, it is not raw. Raw ability may be someone saying I was born fast, or I could jump high from birth.

How did I learn how to dribble? I cannot pinpoint the exact day when I became good at dribbling, but what I will tell you is I played football on the concrete (Not grass) within a very confined space and with kids, sometimes twice my height! I was thus in an environment where I learned to adapt to the space. It may have come easier to me, but without that environment I would not have learned it at that time. It was not raw...it was honed in its own way.

We all learned how to do the more complex things like dribbling, it may have come more naturally to us than others, but it was not from the womb! No Way! The Europeans did not invent the concept of training. Street football, playing organically, developing organically is also a form of training and nurturing, and that is how every player developed raw ability of movement into talent.

That is what I meant and to be sure that is what I meant, that is why I said...who are his mentors, how did he develop.

I do know my use of the terms are probably not conventional, I was simply questioning this notion that there are some footballers that just know this or that, B/S. All those Okochas, Peles, they had their own training regimen that helped make them who they are, it may have come more easy to them, but without those exercises HELL NO.

I don't actually think that any of us have conflicting viewpoints, I just did not express myself properly. I am not questioning the aspect where things come easier to some than others. I just know for a fact that all of those so called wonder-kids, had specific environments that brought the best out of them! Even if only for a short time. T

Most good dribblers don't predetermine the dribble they will pull off. They do the dribble based on their attempt at trying to avoid the tackle. Yes, at times they have a signature dribble which they have honed over the years. But most who are exceptional at it don't plan the dribble before the execute it.

You see it in street ball... be it football or basketball. There are countless of street guys who are good at dribbling and have natural talent. The edge the coached guys have is that they are taught how to be efficient... how to negate the dribble. But it is all good and dandy until you meet a natural dribbler who defies logic and convention.

In my days, there are folks who are experts at playing "set" (Choosing/monkey-post)... take those same people out on to the big field, they are lost. Their skills become useless. Even the guys who just had a little formal coaching will make them look ineffective and ordinary.

I remember growing up we hardly used to take shots or practice taking shots... we only had one ball. You didn't want to puncture the ball or lose the ball to the bushes so it changed the way you played the game or learned how to play. It took going overseas where there were plenty of balls and no bushes to lose the ball in that one now honed their shooting ability and other fundamentals of the game. When it came to "close combat" i.e., tackling, dribbling out of tight corners, short passing, our local training became an asset...we were advanced because we grew up playing that way for survival... but there were other aspects of the game that we lacked way behind on. The ones with natural ability (superior natural ability) who couldn't take coaching were dropped for the ones with limited ability but can take proper coaching.

tell me about that..........................I thought I was in paradise in 1989 when I had my 1st training with a German team(4th div called Verbandsliga then).
I never saw(Even watching the great Rangers training) these number of balls available for training .............................
Utaba Chair..................you just nailed it

[chief nfachairman]

Okocha was a raw talent till the day he retired

See how you just boldly, bravely and courageously told a complete lie.

There is no way a 14 year old holds his own against 30 year old men; in Nigeria of all places where the league is notoriously robust. If true then he should be tested.

Yeah .... I initially thought the tweeter was exaggerating, or the grown men must have been charitable and fatherly towards the kid, allowing him to showcase himself rather than brutalize a "small boy" who was trying to disgrace them in public.

With that said, the competition in question is not the League or the Federation Cup, but rather the Lagos State FA Cup, likely the earlier stages, probably the first round or Round of 91. The "30-year-olds" may just be random dudes with no particular skill other than the ability to raise the money to register for the FA Cup early stages.

And are they really "30-year-old"? I might be wrong, but I think the video below is the match that the tweeter is referencing. There is no match commentary, so I have no idea if there are any highlights of the lad .... but I do believe the "Sule" referenced in the tweet is Lawal Suleiman, who was interviewed briefly at the end of the video (predicting they will reach the final ). The opposing team does not look like "30-year-olds" to me.

[/video]

What a horribly poor and wrong statement. You need to come and get involved in grassroots and amateur football in Nigeria and it would clearly show that alot of your assumptions on this level of football is totally false.

I dont know how you can tell they not 30yr olds or not but if i am going to use the same video analysis u used, their are loads of "30yr olds" there.

[Enugu II]

I am not sure that tbite is writing about any idea that is strange. If you have read Malcom Gladwell's well known book on developing talent then we showed all know that no one is Born with any of these. Countless hours of practice with or without a coach is critical. I am surprised that many doubt than a 14 year old can play with adults. It happens a lot in Nigeria. We had a kid of that age who trained with us at Nsukka then and you really did not want to be the guy designated to stop him. Peel and Maradona were already playing club soccer before debuting at 15 for their respective national teams.

But you can't develop what is not there.

Cell

That is why people spend hours working on it. For some they get to it quicker but they cannot get there without work. No one wakes up with talent. It just does not happen. Even Okocha and others spent countless hours on the street working. In Pele's book he describes hours spent playing on the streets.

Yes you do.

You wake up with superior athleticism- speed of coordination and balance that is superior to the average.
Practice then defines what follows. But there is a starting point for talent- the ability to naturally coordinate thought and physical activity at a level that is beyond the average..

The young boy you are describing above is probably Valentine Ugboma...

txj

No one is born with talent, bros. What you are born with is some innate intelligence or some physical advantage which may enable you to grasp something quicker or act quicker than the other person. This is a generalized trait. However, none of that makes one good in any sport UNTIL you actually LEARN to play that sport either through a teacher or through modeling via observation. Why? Sport is rule-based and it is not something that is based on nature except perhaps running. You must learn those rules, get acquainted with them via practice until they are unconscious. It is through that learning that someone develops a TALENT for a sport.

For instance, LeBron James, through practices on the street, developed talent for basketball - understanding the rules, etc. He possibility could have done the same for soccer if only he practiced soccer. But right now we cannot say that LeBron is a TALENTED soccer player whether you see him as athletic or whatever else. He just isn't a talented soccer player. The reason we describe him as talented in one sport and not the other is because he has worked hours to develop that talent in one and not in the other.

[chief nfachairman]

I made a distinction between talent and ability (I am using my own definitions here). I should have made that clear.

What is talent? What is raw? Do we call raw talent something developed outside of the academy?

I myself learned how to be a master dribbler at a young age, without every having a coach or watching anybody else. But was it raw? No! Dribbling is not raw! Ask any Okocha or any Pele, it is not raw. Raw ability may be someone saying I was born fast, or I could jump high from birth.

How did I learn how to dribble? I cannot pinpoint the exact day when I became good at dribbling, but what I will tell you is I played football on the concrete (Not grass) within a very confined space and with kids, sometimes twice my height! I was thus in an environment where I learned to adapt to the space. It may have come easier to me, but without that environment I would not have learned it at that time. It was not raw...it was honed in its own way.

We all learned how to do the more complex things like dribbling, it may have come more naturally to us than others, but it was not from the womb! No Way! The Europeans did not invent the concept of training. Street football, playing organically, developing organically is also a form of training and nurturing, and that is how every player developed raw ability of movement into talent.

That is what I meant and to be sure that is what I meant, that is why I said...who are his mentors, how did he develop.

I do know my use of the terms are probably not conventional, I was simply questioning this notion that there are some footballers that just know this or that, B/S. All those Okochas, Peles, they had their own training regimen that helped make them who they are, it may have come more easy to them, but without those exercises HELL NO.

I don't actually think that any of us have conflicting viewpoints, I just did not express myself properly. I am not questioning the aspect where things come easier to some than others. I just know for a fact that all of those so called wonder-kids, had specific environments that brought the best out of them! Even if only for a short time. T

i learned how to dribble at a later age maybe when i was 13 but my closest friend then had been dribbling all of us from when we were like 5 sef. then we use to play with a tennis ball in another's neighbour living room. even the neighbours older brother who was like 10yrs older than us (agbaya) use to collect the guys dribbles.

that kid could juggle a tennis ball. worst part of it all is that he was big and been big since he was a toddler (RIP).

[Otitokoro]

Video clips of Lawal Suleimon Ayomide in action. Enjoy...
[/video]

[osita]

Video clips of Lawal Suleimon Ayomide in action. Enjoy...
[/video]

The boy is very young and talented. The lads around him are not in there 30 thirties but just bigger.

[ogasir]

Video clips of Lawal Suleimon Ayomide in action. Enjoy...
[/video]

I am impressed by his ability to hold the ball against guys bigger than him. Anyway he is a member of the NFF U15. Really excited to see how he develops in 2/3 yrs when he graduates to the U17 team

[Damunk]

Video clips of Lawal Suleimon Ayomide in action. Enjoy...
[/video]

I am impressed by his ability to hold the ball against guys bigger than him. Anyway he is a member of the NFF U15. Really excited to see how he develops in 2/3 yrs when he graduates to the U17 team

Awesome kid!

[oluwaseye the 1st.]

I saw him once at Agege Stadium and i quickly rang up Barrister Seyi Akinwunmi who thankfully assured me that they know about him and he is in one of the youth teams phew!! you need to see him live to appreciate his football sense the video clip is an injustice (lol) wish i could kidnap the boy and send him to Pochettino at Spurs

[pajimoh]

I saw him once at Agege Stadium and i quickly rang up Barrister Seyi Akinwunmi who thankfully assured me that they know about him and he is in one of the youth teams phew!! you need to see him live to appreciate his football sense the video clip is an injustice (lol) wish i could kidnap the boy and send him to Pochettino at Spurs

Please do. We are counting on you. You can send the clip to Spurs

[wale1974]

Video???

Take our word for it

[wale1974]

Video clips of Lawal Suleimon Ayomide in action. Enjoy...
[/video]

The boy is very young and talented. The lads around him are not in there 30 thirties but just bigger.

Good vision and passes, but I also think are also taking it easy on him when it comes to tackling.

This kid can go far

[joao]

My best appreciation of the clip is the quick passing of his team. They do not linger on the ball
or showboat as some here will prefer. If this selfless approach to the game continues in our league
and football culture, it will not be long before we are world cup contenders.
It's not all about skills, but more of a team approach to matches - spelled TEAM DISCIPLINE!!!

[Cellular]

I am not sure that tbite is writing about any idea that is strange. If you have read Malcom Gladwell's well known book on developing talent then we showed all know that no one is Born with any of these. Countless hours of practice with or without a coach is critical. I am surprised that many doubt than a 14 year old can play with adults. It happens a lot in Nigeria. We had a kid of that age who trained with us at Nsukka then and you really did not want to be the guy designated to stop him. Peel and Maradona were already playing club soccer before debuting at 15 for their respective national teams.

But you can't develop what is not there.

Cell

That is why people spend hours working on it. For some they get to it quicker but they cannot get there without work. No one wakes up with talent. It just does not happen. Even Okocha and others spent countless hours on the street working. In Pele's book he describes hours spent playing on the streets.

Yes you do.

You wake up with superior athleticism- speed of coordination and balance that is superior to the average.
Practice then defines what follows. But there is a starting point for talent- the ability to naturally coordinate thought and physical activity at a level that is beyond the average..

The young boy you are describing above is probably Valentine Ugboma...

txj

No one is born with talent, bros. What you are born with is some innate intelligence or some physical advantage which may enable you to grasp something quicker or act quicker than the other person. This is a generalized trait. However, none of that makes one good in any sport UNTIL you actually LEARN to play that sport either through a teacher or through modeling via observation. Why? Sport is rule-based and it is not something that is based on nature except perhaps running. You must learn those rules, get acquainted with them via practice until they are unconscious. It is through that learning that someone develops a TALENT for a sport.

For instance, LeBron James, through practices on the street, developed talent for basketball - understanding the rules, etc. He possibility could have done the same for soccer if only he practiced soccer. But right now we cannot say that LeBron is a TALENTED soccer player whether you see him as athletic or whatever else. He just isn't a talented soccer player. The reason we describe him as talented in one sport and not the other is because he has worked hours to develop that talent in one and not in the other.

Prof. isn't being born with innate intelligence or some physical advantage, talent?

It is not your regular normal level of talent. When you have an advantage in anything it is having a talent for that which you have an advantage on... the use of the word "talent" is for a lack of better word.

Even twins also show different levels of talent...

[txj]

I am not sure that tbite is writing about any idea that is strange. If you have read Malcom Gladwell's well known book on developing talent then we showed all know that no one is Born with any of these. Countless hours of practice with or without a coach is critical. I am surprised that many doubt than a 14 year old can play with adults. It happens a lot in Nigeria. We had a kid of that age who trained with us at Nsukka then and you really did not want to be the guy designated to stop him. Peel and Maradona were already playing club soccer before debuting at 15 for their respective national teams.

But you can't develop what is not there.

Cell

That is why people spend hours working on it. For some they get to it quicker but they cannot get there without work. No one wakes up with talent. It just does not happen. Even Okocha and others spent countless hours on the street working. In Pele's book he describes hours spent playing on the streets.

Yes you do.

You wake up with superior athleticism- speed of coordination and balance that is superior to the average.
Practice then defines what follows. But there is a starting point for talent- the ability to naturally coordinate thought and physical activity at a level that is beyond the average..

The young boy you are describing above is probably Valentine Ugboma...

txj

No one is born with talent, bros. What you are born with is some innate intelligence or some physical advantage which may enable you to grasp something quicker or act quicker than the other person. This is a generalized trait. However, none of that makes one good in any sport UNTIL you actually LEARN to play that sport either through a teacher or through modeling via observation. Why? Sport is rule-based and it is not something that is based on nature except perhaps running. You must learn those rules, get acquainted with them via practice until they are unconscious. It is through that learning that someone develops a TALENT for a sport.

For instance, LeBron James, through practices on the street, developed talent for basketball - understanding the rules, etc. He possibility could have done the same for soccer if only he practiced soccer. But right now we cannot say that LeBron is a TALENTED soccer player whether you see him as athletic or whatever else. He just isn't a talented soccer player. The reason we describe him as talented in one sport and not the other is because he has worked hours to develop that talent in one and not in the other.

Prof. isn't being born with innate intelligence or some physical advantage, talent?

It is not your regular normal level of talent. When you have an advantage in anything it is having a talent for that which you have an advantage on... the use of the word "talent" is for a lack of better word.

Even twins also show different levels of talent...

I understand what he's saying, but its mere sophistry IMO.

Yes nobody is born with football talent straight from the womb- fetuses do not practice football in the womb! but you are born with specific superior traits that give you a head start.

It most certainly is a gift, an aptitude or facility. It is an elevated basis for the superiority that enables such individuals to be specially gifted.

Lebron has that same quality- superior physical balance and coordination. That was the basis of his head start over his peers- expressed thru basketball.

The talent or gift is the superior innate intelligence and physical coordination. In what sport this is expressed is a matter of interest, exposure and subsequent practice....

It is classified as being born with natural talent, cus those qualities are the basis for faster learning...

[theYemster]

I am not sure that tbite is writing about any idea that is strange. If you have read Malcom Gladwell's well known book on developing talent then we showed all know that no one is Born with any of these. Countless hours of practice with or without a coach is critical. I am surprised that many doubt than a 14 year old can play with adults. It happens a lot in Nigeria. We had a kid of that age who trained with us at Nsukka then and you really did not want to be the guy designated to stop him. Peel and Maradona were already playing club soccer before debuting at 15 for their respective national teams.

But you can't develop what is not there.

Cell

That is why people spend hours working on it. For some they get to it quicker but they cannot get there without work. No one wakes up with talent. It just does not happen. Even Okocha and others spent countless hours on the street working. In Pele's book he describes hours spent playing on the streets.

Yes you do.

You wake up with superior athleticism- speed of coordination and balance that is superior to the average.
Practice then defines what follows. But there is a starting point for talent- the ability to naturally coordinate thought and physical activity at a level that is beyond the average..

The young boy you are describing above is probably Valentine Ugboma...

txj

No one is born with talent, bros. What you are born with is some innate intelligence or some physical advantage which may enable you to grasp something quicker or act quicker than the other person. This is a generalized trait. However, none of that makes one good in any sport UNTIL you actually LEARN to play that sport either through a teacher or through modeling via observation. Why? Sport is rule-based and it is not something that is based on nature except perhaps running. You must learn those rules, get acquainted with them via practice until they are unconscious. It is through that learning that someone develops a TALENT for a sport.

For instance, LeBron James, through practices on the street, developed talent for basketball - understanding the rules, etc. He possibility could have done the same for soccer if only he practiced soccer. But right now we cannot say that LeBron is a TALENTED soccer player whether you see him as athletic or whatever else. He just isn't a talented soccer player. The reason we describe him as talented in one sport and not the other is because he has worked hours to develop that talent in one and not in the other.

I think you need to explicitly define the term "talent" in this context before one can come to any conclusions regarding nature vs nurture.

[airwolex]

So what do we call someone born with peripheral vision that is 30% higher than normal, who is probably ambidextrous and has fast twitch fibers and a longer than normal achilles tendon which increases explosiveness for running and jumping?

These are all traits Pele had. Is that natural talent, physical ability etc? Because he definitely didn't work for any of those things.

[The Eagle]

What a horribly poor and wrong statement. You need to come and get involved in grassroots and amateur football in Nigeria and it would clearly show that alot of your assumptions on this level of football is totally false.

I dont know how you can tell they not 30yr olds or not but if i am going to use the same video analysis u used, their are loads of "30yr olds" there.

You are entitled to your reaction. The reality remains that at the lowest level of the Nigerian organized football pyramid, you are likely to find "30-year-olds" whose level of ability is such that it wouldn't be a "surprise" for them to be beaten and even outplayed by a team of talented JS3 and SS1 students. And I am not the only one who doesn't think the opponents were "30-year-olds", nor am I the only one who surmised the opponents went easy on the tackling.

This doesn't take away from the young man's talent or potential. When I watch young players, the thing that interests me most (more than their physical talents) is their decision-making. And based on the clip I am impressed with the kid.

[niyi]

This boy has 4 pairs of eyes and the calmness of a monk

[Enugu II]

I understand what he's saying, but its mere sophistry IMO.

Yes nobody is born with football talent straight from the womb- fetuses do not practice football in the womb! but you are born with specific superior traits that give you a head start.

It most certainly is a gift, an aptitude or facility. It is an elevated basis for the superiority that enables such individuals to be specially gifted.

Lebron has that same quality- superior physical balance and coordination. That was the basis of his head start over his peers- expressed thru basketball.

The talent or gift is the superior innate intelligence and physical coordination. In what sport this is expressed is a matter of interest, exposure and subsequent practice....

It is classified as being born with natural talent, cus those qualities are the basis for faster learning...

txj,

I do not believe that any one has argued about persons being born with certain attributes that are different from the other person. That, I think, is what makes all of us different and thus is not a point of debate if you ask me.

However, those attributes or traits are not talent. The Yemster has asked for a definition of talent. IMHO, talent refers to certain skills specific to particular activities. Talent is then is only acquired in that activity (e.g. soccer) by practicing it.

Yes, your attribute may give you an edge in terms of how quickly you learn a game. You must learn it (attribute, trait, intelligence and all do not matter. You MUST learn it) because no one is born knowing the rules of a game (exception may be running). However, lack of practice will also deny you that edge. Conversely, one without as much of the other's attribute may develop better talent via practice over one with the better attributes. The point here is, therefore, that practice is of absolute important.

This is precisely why I put forward the LeBron example. LeBron is a great basketball player because of practice. He probably acquired the talent quicker than say a guy with lesser traits. But in soccer, that guy with lesser traits may be considered better talented because of practice over LeBron who has not practiced soccer. That is the difference that I speak of.

Practice is of great importance. It is those hours that build and develop that talent to point of sustainability. This is why player A at U17 may be better than B player at same age group but it could be reversed going forward not because B suddenly has better attributes or traits but because B has practiced more and dedicated time than A, among other things.

[ohenhen1]

He is 14, can't 'really tell much at this point. The next 5 years will be critical. Hope for growth spurt aided by the best sports nutrition. Also get him the best coaching that will make him a complete footballer.

[Damunk]

What a horribly poor and wrong statement. You need to come and get involved in grassroots and amateur football in Nigeria and it would clearly show that alot of your assumptions on this level of football is totally false.

I dont know how you can tell they not 30yr olds or not but if i am going to use the same video analysis u used, their are loads of "30yr olds" there.

You are entitled to your reaction. The reality remains that at the lowest level of the Nigerian organized football pyramid, you are likely to find "30-year-olds" whose level of ability is such that it wouldn't be a "surprise" for them to be beaten and even outplayed by a team of talented JS3 and SS1 students. And I am not the only one who doesn't think the opponents were "30-year-olds", nor am I the only one who surmised the opponents went easy on the tackling.

This doesn't take away from the young man's talent or potential. When I watch young players, the thing that interests me most (more than their physical talents) is their decision-making. And based on the clip I am impressed with the kid.

Excellent vision and decision making!