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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 5:50 am 
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born2win wrote:
metalalloy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
metalalloy wrote:
born2win wrote:
A provisional list of 35 players per national team was submitted to FIFA by 14 May 2018, one month prior to the opening match of the tournament.[2] The final list of 23 players per national team will be submitted to FIFA by 4 June 2018, 10 days prior to the opening match of the tournament.[2] Teams are permitted to make late replacements in the event of serious injury, at any time up to 24 hours before their first game.[1


Again, wrong. Nigeria only submitted a 30 man list.


metalalloy,

How is the former wrong? He/she simply posted FIFA's rule.

That Nigeria or any other country announced less than 35 players is not FIFA's problem. The list submitted would simply count as the provisional list whether it is 30 or 35 players. The critical date now is June 4 when a list of 23 MUST be submitted. After that date, teams can make a change to an injured player (on the list) up until just before the first game.

So what is the problem with the above statement by born2win?


Because he did not post the FIFA rule. This is his statement:

Quote:
A provisional list of 35 players per national team was submitted to FIFA by 14 May 2018, one month prior to the opening match of the tournament.


While a provisional list of 35 players may have been submitted by some countries to FIFA by the May 14 deadline, Nigeria was not one of those countries.

This is the fifa rule:

Quote:
"Each association that qualifies for the final competition shall provide FIFA with a list of up to 35 players (hereinafter:the release list) whom it has called up in accordance with the relevant provisions of Annexe 1 of the FIFA Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players"


*emphasis added. We had the option of picking up to 35, we picked 30.

Also, In his previous post, he said the following :

Quote:
Wrong he has till June 4 to submit a provisional 23 to FIFA
.

As of now he can add or drop 6 provisional players.


That is also incorrect. After the May 14 deadline, you can not add to the provisional list. Rohr has up to June 4 to submit a FINAL (not provisional) list which must be drawn from the provisional list that was previously submitted.


My guy do you know about World Cup rules more than FIFA . All I did was copy and paste there rule.

The limit for provisional is 35 and the limit for the final list is 23. However According to FIFA you can make a replacement with a player not even on that list as long as it greater than 24hrs b4 your first match.


I paste again

Final list of players
4.
Each association shall then be required to provide FIFA with a final list of
23 players (three of whom shall be goalkeepers) and 27 officials (hereinafter: the final list). This final list is limited to the players on the release list.The final list should show the full last name(s), all first names, popular name, name and number on the shirt, position, place and date of birth, passport number and expiry date, name and country of the club, height, weight, number of caps attained number of international goals scored and shall be submitted to the FIFA general secretariat by the deadline stipulated in the relevant circular, using the official form for this purpose.
5.
Only these 23 players (except in cases of force majeure recognised by the FIFA Organising Committee) shall be permitted to compete in the final competition. Only the numbers 1 to 23 may be allocated to these players, with number 1 being reserved exclusively for one of the goalkeepers. The numbers on the back of the shirts shall correspond with the numbers indicated on the final list.
6.
The final lists shall be published by the FIFA general secretariat.
7.
The final list of 23 players plus 27 officials will constitute the Official Team Delegation list.
Replacement of injured players
8.
A player listed on the final list may only be replaced in the event of serious injury up until 24 hours before the kick-off of his team’s first match. The replacement players do not need to be limited to the release list. Such replacements must be approved in writing by the FIFA Medical Committee upon receipt and acceptance of a written detailed medical assessment in one of the four official FIFA languages. The FIFA Medical Committee shall approve the request if the injury is sufficiently serious to prevent the player from taking part in the competition. Upon approval, the association shall immediately nominate a replacement and inform the FIFA general


Currently we are still at the release list stage for our SE thus your highlighted doesn't apply yet. If the 23 were released before this then, your highlighted becomes applicable.

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 8:38 am 
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 8:43 am 
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Why did Fifa cause all this confusion self? They should have just given everyone until June 4 to submit their 23. This 35-man list is unnecessary wahala. The season has just ended and coaches need to look at their players before drawing up lists.

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 9:36 am 
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How is he out of the World Cup with only 3 weeks?

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 10:08 am 
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born2win wrote:

My guy do you know about World Cup rules more than FIFA . All I did was copy and paste there rule.

The limit for provisional is 35 and the limit for the final list is 23. However According to FIFA you can make a replacement with a player not even on that list as long as it greater than 24hrs b4 your first match.


I paste again

Final list of players
4.
Each association shall then be required to provide FIFA with a final list of
23 players (three of whom shall be goalkeepers) and 27 officials (hereinafter: the final list). This final list is limited to the players on the release list. The final list should show the full last name(s), all first names, popular name, name and number on the shirt, position, place and date of birth, passport number and expiry date, name and country of the club, height, weight, number of caps attained number of international goals scored and shall be submitted to the FIFA general secretariat by the deadline stipulated in the relevant circular, using the official form for this purpose.
5.
Only these 23 players (except in cases of force majeure recognised by the FIFA Organising Committee) shall be permitted to compete in the final competition. Only the numbers 1 to 23 may be allocated to these players, with number 1 being reserved exclusively for one of the goalkeepers. The numbers on the back of the shirts shall correspond with the numbers indicated on the final list.
6.
The final lists shall be published by the FIFA general secretariat.
7.
The final list of 23 players plus 27 officials will constitute the Official Team Delegation list.
Replacement of injured players
8.
A player listed on the final list may only be replaced in the event of serious injury up until 24 hours before the kick-off of his team’s first match. The replacement players do not need to be limited to the release list. Such replacements must be approved in writing by the FIFA Medical Committee upon receipt and acceptance of a written detailed medical assessment in one of the four official FIFA languages. The FIFA Medical Committee shall approve the request if the injury is sufficiently serious to prevent the player from taking part in the competition. Upon approval, the association shall immediately nominate a replacement and inform the FIFA general


Bros, i do not claim to know fifa's rules more than FIFA. However, nothing you have pasted is in line with what you typed before.

Quote:
The limit for provisional is 35 and the limit for the final list is 23.


The limits for each list is not in dispute, what i disagree with you is the ability to add a player after the deadlines. For the provisional list, after May 14, you can not ADD to that list. You are stuck with what you have.


Quote:
However According to FIFA you can make a replacement with a player not even on that list as long as it greater than 24hrs b4 your first match.


Again, not in dispute and it has nothing to do with your previous statements. The final list comes from the provisional list. AFTER you select your final list on June 4th, if you have a serious injury to a player on the final list, then you can substitute such a player. So please tell me how what you posted above is in line with your previous statement?

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 10:10 am 
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Cito wrote:
born2win wrote:
metalalloy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
metalalloy wrote:
born2win wrote:
A provisional list of 35 players per national team was submitted to FIFA by 14 May 2018, one month prior to the opening match of the tournament.[2] The final list of 23 players per national team will be submitted to FIFA by 4 June 2018, 10 days prior to the opening match of the tournament.[2] Teams are permitted to make late replacements in the event of serious injury, at any time up to 24 hours before their first game.[1


Again, wrong. Nigeria only submitted a 30 man list.


metalalloy,

How is the former wrong? He/she simply posted FIFA's rule.

That Nigeria or any other country announced less than 35 players is not FIFA's problem. The list submitted would simply count as the provisional list whether it is 30 or 35 players. The critical date now is June 4 when a list of 23 MUST be submitted. After that date, teams can make a change to an injured player (on the list) up until just before the first game.

So what is the problem with the above statement by born2win?


Because he did not post the FIFA rule. This is his statement:

Quote:
A provisional list of 35 players per national team was submitted to FIFA by 14 May 2018, one month prior to the opening match of the tournament.


While a provisional list of 35 players may have been submitted by some countries to FIFA by the May 14 deadline, Nigeria was not one of those countries.

This is the fifa rule:

Quote:
"Each association that qualifies for the final competition shall provide FIFA with a list of up to 35 players (hereinafter:the release list) whom it has called up in accordance with the relevant provisions of Annexe 1 of the FIFA Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players"


*emphasis added. We had the option of picking up to 35, we picked 30.

Also, In his previous post, he said the following :

Quote:
Wrong he has till June 4 to submit a provisional 23 to FIFA
.

As of now he can add or drop 6 provisional players.


That is also incorrect. After the May 14 deadline, you can not add to the provisional list. Rohr has up to June 4 to submit a FINAL (not provisional) list which must be drawn from the provisional list that was previously submitted.


My guy do you know about World Cup rules more than FIFA . All I did was copy and paste there rule.

The limit for provisional is 35 and the limit for the final list is 23. However According to FIFA you can make a replacement with a player not even on that list as long as it greater than 24hrs b4 your first match.


I paste again

Final list of players
4.
Each association shall then be required to provide FIFA with a final list of
23 players (three of whom shall be goalkeepers) and 27 officials (hereinafter: the final list). This final list is limited to the players on the release list.The final list should show the full last name(s), all first names, popular name, name and number on the shirt, position, place and date of birth, passport number and expiry date, name and country of the club, height, weight, number of caps attained number of international goals scored and shall be submitted to the FIFA general secretariat by the deadline stipulated in the relevant circular, using the official form for this purpose.
5.
Only these 23 players (except in cases of force majeure recognised by the FIFA Organising Committee) shall be permitted to compete in the final competition. Only the numbers 1 to 23 may be allocated to these players, with number 1 being reserved exclusively for one of the goalkeepers. The numbers on the back of the shirts shall correspond with the numbers indicated on the final list.
6.
The final lists shall be published by the FIFA general secretariat.
7.
The final list of 23 players plus 27 officials will constitute the Official Team Delegation list.
Replacement of injured players
8.
A player listed on the final list may only be replaced in the event of serious injury up until 24 hours before the kick-off of his team’s first match. The replacement players do not need to be limited to the release list. Such replacements must be approved in writing by the FIFA Medical Committee upon receipt and acceptance of a written detailed medical assessment in one of the four official FIFA languages. The FIFA Medical Committee shall approve the request if the injury is sufficiently serious to prevent the player from taking part in the competition. Upon approval, the association shall immediately nominate a replacement and inform the FIFA general


Currently we are still at the release list stage for our SE thus your highlighted doesn't apply yet. If the 23 were released before this then, your highlighted becomes applicable.



KPOM!!

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He says that we are currently "brainwashed" into believing that the Premier League is the best competition in the world, and that we are now a long way off dominating the Champions League again.
Gary Neville: Mirror: 12/23/14

I think Spain’s by far the best league.
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 10:15 am 
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Ayo Akinfe wrote:
Why did Fifa cause all this confusion self? They should have just given everyone until June 4 to submit their 23. This 35-man list is unnecessary wahala. The season has just ended and coaches need to look at their players before drawing up lists.


Probably because FIFA and teams and the host country need more than a week's notice to prepare for a certain number players. Match programs need to pre printed, visa, hotel accommodation, etc. That 384 extra players is more of a logistical headache to take care of in a week. Coaches have had 3 years since the last tournament to access their players, they should not need an extra time to access a whole host of players to come up with a final list of 23.

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We have been brainwashed by the Premier League that it's the best in the world. Nonsense. It's the best brand
Roy Keane: ITV 02/25/14

He says that we are currently "brainwashed" into believing that the Premier League is the best competition in the world, and that we are now a long way off dominating the Champions League again.
Gary Neville: Mirror: 12/23/14

I think Spain’s by far the best league.
Scholes. UK Guardian 9/6/16


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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 10:19 am 
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Cristao II wrote:
How is he out of the World Cup with only 3 weeks?


He can't train with the team for the duration of his injury. There is no guarantee he will recover in 3 weeks. If he doesn't, then you have a wasted spot. Even if he recovers, he will still need sometime to get back in match fitness which unless he is a Messi, Neymar, ROnaldo you really dont want players acquiring their match fitness at the world cup. He is a good player, but this should not make or break our campaign. If nah Mikel...

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We have been brainwashed by the Premier League that it's the best in the world. Nonsense. It's the best brand
Roy Keane: ITV 02/25/14

He says that we are currently "brainwashed" into believing that the Premier League is the best competition in the world, and that we are now a long way off dominating the Champions League again.
Gary Neville: Mirror: 12/23/14

I think Spain’s by far the best league.
Scholes. UK Guardian 9/6/16


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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 10:21 am 
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Cristao II wrote:
How is he out of the World Cup with only 3 weeks?

Exactly. They should keep him in the team and reassess days before the World Cup.


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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 12:11 pm 
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born2win wrote:
A provisional list of 35 players per national team was submitted to FIFA by 14 May 2018, one month prior to the opening match of the tournament.[2] The final list of 23 players per national team will be submitted to FIFA by 4 June 2018, 10 days prior to the opening match of the tournament.[2] Teams are permitted to make late replacements in the event of serious injury, at any time up to 24 hours before their first game.[1

Oh! Based on this post, it seems teams can replace our injured player(s), then.

In our case, are we to replace from the list of 30 players (only, or we can call-up whoever we want?

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 12:17 pm 
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Synopsis wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
How is he out of the World Cup with only 3 weeks?

Exactly. They should keep him in the team and reassess days before the World Cup.



He is out for 4 weeks. Then he will have to regain his fitness. He is out of the world cup.

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 1:16 pm 
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Inevitable. Like I have said several times before - a key player always gets injured just before the WC and ends up missing the tournament (see Dosu, Shakpoke, Mikel etc from previous WCs).


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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 1:49 pm 
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I feel for Moses Simon. A loss for us too because he brought something different to the table. Hopefully, he can recover before the WC. If he cannot, Etebo out wide is a magnificent tactical option to have. I also think this opens it up Simy.

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 1:53 pm 
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wiseone wrote:
Inevitable. Like I have said several times before - a key player always gets injured just before the WC and ends up missing the tournament (see Dosu, Shakpoke, Mikel etc from previous WCs).

Wouldn't describe Simon as a key player but yes it would be our biggest loss to date.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 3:05 pm 
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Well his absence will be "key" because the potential replacements are either inconsistent (Iwobi) or lacking match practice (Musa).

The YeyeMan wrote:
wiseone wrote:
Inevitable. Like I have said several times before - a key player always gets injured just before the WC and ends up missing the tournament (see Dosu, Shakpoke, Mikel etc from previous WCs).

Wouldn't describe Simon as a key player but yes it would be our biggest loss to date.


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 3:09 pm 
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The YeyeMan wrote:
wiseone wrote:
Inevitable. Like I have said several times before - a key player always gets injured just before the WC and ends up missing the tournament (see Dosu, Shakpoke, Mikel etc from previous WCs).

Wouldn't describe Simon as a key player but yes it would be our biggest loss to date.


Well, he was key to our qualification, scored a beauty of a FK in the preliminary rounds and scored our lone goal away to Cameroon. IMO we don't have enough talent to be saying Simon is not a key player, he might not be everyone's cup of tea but he produces and works extremely hard for a team that's built on hard work and discipline.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 7:52 pm 
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maceo4 wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:
wiseone wrote:
Inevitable. Like I have said several times before - a key player always gets injured just before the WC and ends up missing the tournament (see Dosu, Shakpoke, Mikel etc from previous WCs).

Wouldn't describe Simon as a key player but yes it would be our biggest loss to date.


Well, he was key to our qualification, scored a beauty of a FK in the preliminary rounds and scored our lone goal away to Cameroon. IMO we don't have enough talent to be saying Simon is not a key player, he might not be everyone's cup of tea but he produces and works extremely hard for a team that's built on hard work and discipline.

My guy, I know you like Simon but he's not a key player, he's not even a guaranteed starter.

A good, if wildly inconsistent player, yes. But key? No.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 7:57 pm 
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maceo4 wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:
wiseone wrote:
Inevitable. Like I have said several times before - a key player always gets injured just before the WC and ends up missing the tournament (see Dosu, Shakpoke, Mikel etc from previous WCs).

Wouldn't describe Simon as a key player but yes it would be our biggest loss to date.


Well, he was key to our qualification, scored a beauty of a FK in the preliminary rounds and scored our lone goal away to Cameroon. IMO we don't have enough talent to be saying Simon is not a key player, he might not be everyone's cup of tea but he produces and works extremely hard for a team that's built on hard work and discipline.

KPOM!

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 8:01 pm 
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Cristao II wrote:
How is he out of the World Cup with only 3 weeks?



Players need to be able to train to get ready for matches. 3 to 4 weeks from is June 28. We would have played 3 games.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 8:20 pm 
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metalalloy wrote:
Quote:
However According to FIFA you can make a replacement with a player not even on that list as long as it greater than 24hrs b4 your first match.


Again, not in dispute and it has nothing to do with your previous statements. The final list comes from the provisional list. AFTER you select your final list on June 4th, if you have a serious injury to a player on the final list, then you can substitute such a player. So please tell me how what you posted above is in line with your previous statement?


I think teams can make replacements based on force majeure from a universal set of national players. It doesnt have to be the release list. For other reasons, after June 4, replacement should be from the release list.

This is definitely why countries like Brazil, England, France, Spain [even] Iceland didnt bother with a release list since they can select replacement from any of their players.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 10:18 pm 
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anointed wrote:
metalalloy wrote:
Quote:
However According to FIFA you can make a replacement with a player not even on that list as long as it greater than 24hrs b4 your first match.


Again, not in dispute and it has nothing to do with your previous statements. The final list comes from the provisional list. AFTER you select your final list on June 4th, if you have a serious injury to a player on the final list, then you can substitute such a player. So please tell me how what you posted above is in line with your previous statement?


I think teams can make replacements based on force majeure from a universal set of national players. It doesnt have to be the release list. For other reasons, after June 4, replacement should be from the release list.

This is definitely why countries like Brazil, England, France, Spain [even] Iceland didnt bother with a release list since they can select replacement from any of their players.


Do you have any rule or regulation you can point to to back the highlighted? The regulations have it the opposite way (i.e. after June 4, you are not restricted to the release list for any replacement). If the highlighted was the case, why would FIFA have a deadline to submit a provisional list in the first place? Why not just wait till the release list.

Also, FYI, while the likes of France, Brazil, England and Spain may have named a final 23 man squad, according to reports, they still submitted a 35 man provisional squad to Fifa by the May 14 deadline.

England:
Quote:
Southgate submitted a 35-man provisional squad to Fifa on Monday and despite having until 4 June to trim that down, he announced last week that every player would know where they stand by today.

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup/england-world-cup-squad-2018-when-announced-injuries/

Spain:
Quote:
If he cannot go to the tournament, he must be replaced with a player on the list of 35 that Lopetegui sent to FIFA on May 15.

https://www.sport-english.com/en/news/real-madrid/dani-carvajals-spain-replacement-must-come-from-the-list-of-35-6841864

France:
Quote:
The federation also confirmed a provisional list of 35 players will have previously been submitted to FIFA by the May 14 deadline. All World Cup participating nations should have finalized their 23-player squads by June 4.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/90minutes/worldcup2018/ct-90mins-deschamps-postpones-france-squad-reveal-to-after-europa-league-final-20180504-story.html

Brazil: (not as clear but the article also discusses a list of 35, of which 23 were named and 12 are on standby)

Quote:
In the case of Brazil, it has to do with their reserve list. Coach Tite went straight to the announcement of his list of 23. The identity of the other 12 players who are on the standby list were not revealed, for any appreciable reason. One or two names have dribbled out, but for some mysterious motive the reserve players have been kept secret from the public.

Those involved in the World Cup -- all of those on the list of 35 -- are not supposed to be taking part in club football after last Sunday -- with special dispensation for those featured in the last week of the group phase of the Copa Libertadores, which came to a close on Thursday, and those playing in the final of the Champions League.

http://www.espn.com/soccer/club/brazil/205/blog/post/3509623/brazils-reserves-remaining-a-secret-and-argentinas-goalkeeper-drama-hindering-world-cup-preparations

Iceland:

Quote:
Heimir can call upon replacements from a 35 man squad.

http://icelandreview.com/news/2018/05/13/icelands-world-cup-team-has-some-surprises

23 man squad and 12 reserves = 35 man provisional list
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/6271573/iceland-2018-world-cup-world-cup-squad-aron-gunnarsson-cardiff-city/

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We have been brainwashed by the Premier League that it's the best in the world. Nonsense. It's the best brand
Roy Keane: ITV 02/25/14

He says that we are currently "brainwashed" into believing that the Premier League is the best competition in the world, and that we are now a long way off dominating the Champions League again.
Gary Neville: Mirror: 12/23/14

I think Spain’s by far the best league.
Scholes. UK Guardian 9/6/16


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 10:23 pm 
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metalalloy wrote:
anointed wrote:
metalalloy wrote:
Quote:
However According to FIFA you can make a replacement with a player not even on that list as long as it greater than 24hrs b4 your first match.


Again, not in dispute and it has nothing to do with your previous statements. The final list comes from the provisional list. AFTER you select your final list on June 4th, if you have a serious injury to a player on the final list, then you can substitute such a player. So please tell me how what you posted above is in line with your previous statement?


I think teams can make replacements based on force majeure from a universal set of national players. It doesnt have to be the release list. For other reasons, after June 4, replacement should be from the release list.

This is definitely why countries like Brazil, England, France, Spain [even] Iceland didnt bother with a release list since they can select replacement from any of their players.


Do you have any rule or regulation you can point to to back the highlighted? The regulations have it the opposite way (i.e. after June 4, you are not restricted to the release list for any replacement). If the highlighted was the case, why would FIFA have a deadline to submit a provisional list in the first place? Why not just wait till the release list.

Also, FYI, while the likes of France, Brazil, England and Spain may have named a final 23 man squad, according to reports, they still submitted a 35 man provisional squad to Fifa by the May 14 deadline.

England:
Quote:
Southgate submitted a 35-man provisional squad to Fifa on Monday and despite having until 4 June to trim that down, he announced last week that every player would know where they stand by today.

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup/england-world-cup-squad-2018-when-announced-injuries/

Spain:
Quote:
If he cannot go to the tournament, he must be replaced with a player on the list of 35 that Lopetegui sent to FIFA on May 15.

https://www.sport-english.com/en/news/real-madrid/dani-carvajals-spain-replacement-must-come-from-the-list-of-35-6841864

France:
Quote:
The federation also confirmed a provisional list of 35 players will have previously been submitted to FIFA by the May 14 deadline. All World Cup participating nations should have finalized their 23-player squads by June 4.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/90minutes/worldcup2018/ct-90mins-deschamps-postpones-france-squad-reveal-to-after-europa-league-final-20180504-story.html

Brazil: (not as clear but the article also discusses a list of 35, of which 23 were named and 12 are on standby)

Quote:
In the case of Brazil, it has to do with their reserve list. Coach Tite went straight to the announcement of his list of 23. The identity of the other 12 players who are on the standby list were not revealed, for any appreciable reason. One or two names have dribbled out, but for some mysterious motive the reserve players have been kept secret from the public.

Those involved in the World Cup -- all of those on the list of 35 -- are not supposed to be taking part in club football after last Sunday -- with special dispensation for those featured in the last week of the group phase of the Copa Libertadores, which came to a close on Thursday, and those playing in the final of the Champions League.

http://www.espn.com/soccer/club/brazil/205/blog/post/3509623/brazils-reserves-remaining-a-secret-and-argentinas-goalkeeper-drama-hindering-world-cup-preparations

Iceland:

Quote:
Heimir can call upon replacements from a 35 man squad.

[url]celandreview.com/news/2018/05/11/icelands-world-cup-squad-announced[/url]



:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 10:25 pm 
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kalani JR wrote:


:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:


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We have been brainwashed by the Premier League that it's the best in the world. Nonsense. It's the best brand
Roy Keane: ITV 02/25/14

He says that we are currently "brainwashed" into believing that the Premier League is the best competition in the world, and that we are now a long way off dominating the Champions League again.
Gary Neville: Mirror: 12/23/14

I think Spain’s by far the best league.
Scholes. UK Guardian 9/6/16


Top
 Profile  
 
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