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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:46 am 
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Introducing new tactics at the 11th hour will be a challenge for any team no matter how good the personnel on show are....

First game being Portugal doesn't help matters either. If this backfires, heads will roll...


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:35 am 
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I wanted to analyze arguments from both sides before proposing my opinion.
As a Real Madrid fan, I am also partly biased, even if I hope to be objective.

That said, I have come to the conclusion that Spain made a bad decision to fire Lopetegui.
Its seemed more like a decision born from pride rather than a decision made in the best interests of the team.

The only reason you might give for firing the current coach of a successful team before a tournament is to punish him.
And the only reason to punish him is to make a point. Rubiales described the decision as an "obligation", but was it really?

Obligated to do what? Was he accusing Lopetegui of bias against specific clubs in his potential selection of the team?
Its not as if former coaches for Real Madrid or Barca have not led Spain before.
Vincente Del Bosque spent 18 years as Real Madrid player, and 9 years as Real Madrid Coach before leading Spain to their greatest throphy run ever.
Did he ever show bias against certain clubs?

No that decision was born from pride, plain and simple. And if Spain crash and burn in this tournament, Rubiales should claim responsibility and resign as well.

There are a 100 other ways Rubiales could have handled this situation, and he chose the very worst for Spain.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:58 am 
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charlie wrote:
I wanted to analyze arguments from both sides before proposing my opinion.
As a Real Madrid fan, I am also partly biased, even if I hope to be objective.

That said, I have come to the conclusion that Spain made a bad decision to fire Lopetegui.
Its seemed more like a decision born from pride rather than a decision made in the best interests of the team.

The only reason you might give for firing the current coach of a successful team before a tournament is to punish him.
And the only reason to punish him is to make a point. Rubiales described the decision as an "obligation", but was it really?

Obligated to do what? Was he accusing Lopetegui of bias against specific clubs in his potential selection of the team?
Its not as if former coaches for Real Madrid or Barca have not led Spain before.
Vincente Del Bosque spent 18 years as Real Madrid player, and 9 years as Real Madrid Coach before leading Spain to their greatest throphy run ever.
Did he ever show bias against certain clubs?

No that decision was born from pride, plain and simple. And if Spain crash and burn in this tournament, Rubiales should claim responsibility and resign as well.

There are a 100 other ways Rubiales could have handled this situation, and he chose the very worst for Spain.


Not the same. Del Bosque wasn't ever going to Madrid after 2010, 2012 or 2014 so his Real Madrid past did not matter and even then the only player from his Madrid team that still remained was Casillas. Lopetegui on the other hand was going to Madrid after and would have close observation on three Barça players. On top of that he embarrassed the RFEF, now no doubt this was 100% ego driven but Julen was not blameless.


Last edited by kalani JR on Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:58 am 
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charlie wrote:
I wanted to analyze arguments from both sides before proposing my opinion.
As a Real Madrid fan, I am also partly biased, even if I hope to be objective.

That said, I have come to the conclusion that Spain made a bad decision to fire Lopetegui.
Its seemed more like a decision born from pride rather than a decision made in the best interests of the team.

The only reason you might give for firing the current coach of a successful team before a tournament is to punish him.
And the only reason to punish him is to make a point. Rubiales described the decision as an "obligation", but was it really?

Obligated to do what? Was he accusing Lopetegui of bias against specific clubs in his potential selection of the team?
Its not as if former coaches for Real Madrid or Barca have not led Spain before.
Vincente Del Bosque spent 18 years as Real Madrid player, and 9 years as Real Madrid Coach before leading Spain to their greatest throphy run ever.
Did he ever show bias against certain clubs?

No that decision was born from pride, plain and simple. And if Spain crash and burn in this tournament, Rubiales should claim responsibility and resign as well.

There are a 100 other ways Rubiales could have handled this situation, and he chose the very worst for Spain.



I feel it would have been smarter and less petty to leave Lopetegui in place and after the tournament just sue him for breach of contract.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:01 pm 
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F360 wrote:
charlie wrote:
I wanted to analyze arguments from both sides before proposing my opinion.
As a Real Madrid fan, I am also partly biased, even if I hope to be objective.

That said, I have come to the conclusion that Spain made a bad decision to fire Lopetegui.
Its seemed more like a decision born from pride rather than a decision made in the best interests of the team.

The only reason you might give for firing the current coach of a successful team before a tournament is to punish him.
And the only reason to punish him is to make a point. Rubiales described the decision as an "obligation", but was it really?

Obligated to do what? Was he accusing Lopetegui of bias against specific clubs in his potential selection of the team?
Its not as if former coaches for Real Madrid or Barca have not led Spain before.
Vincente Del Bosque spent 18 years as Real Madrid player, and 9 years as Real Madrid Coach before leading Spain to their greatest throphy run ever.
Did he ever show bias against certain clubs?

No that decision was born from pride, plain and simple. And if Spain crash and burn in this tournament, Rubiales should claim responsibility and resign as well.

There are a 100 other ways Rubiales could have handled this situation, and he chose the very worst for Spain.



I feel it would have been smarter and less petty to leave Lopetegui in place and after the tournament just sue him for breach of contract.



This is the football equivalent of treason by Florentino Perez and Lopategui. They better stay on their knees and pray Spain do not implode..

1. A manager who has preached repeatedly to players about blocking everything else out and focussing on the WC, goes and negotiates a new contract. How then can he manage the team thru the WC?

2. Madrid are in process of signing players. Are they not obligated to consult the coach in the process?

3. Say Lopategui is in private conversation with Ramos, will the other players wonder if he is discussing tactics for next match, or Real Madrid business?

Rubiales had no option here. An institution is only as good as its values. Were he to accept this, what happens on the eve of the next tournament with a new coach?

This one is on Perez and Lopategui. Even the Madrid press have identified this as a betrayal...

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Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:46 pm 
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txj wrote:
F360 wrote:
charlie wrote:
I wanted to analyze arguments from both sides before proposing my opinion.
As a Real Madrid fan, I am also partly biased, even if I hope to be objective.

That said, I have come to the conclusion that Spain made a bad decision to fire Lopetegui.
Its seemed more like a decision born from pride rather than a decision made in the best interests of the team.

The only reason you might give for firing the current coach of a successful team before a tournament is to punish him.
And the only reason to punish him is to make a point. Rubiales described the decision as an "obligation", but was it really?

Obligated to do what? Was he accusing Lopetegui of bias against specific clubs in his potential selection of the team?
Its not as if former coaches for Real Madrid or Barca have not led Spain before.
Vincente Del Bosque spent 18 years as Real Madrid player, and 9 years as Real Madrid Coach before leading Spain to their greatest throphy run ever.
Did he ever show bias against certain clubs?

No that decision was born from pride, plain and simple. And if Spain crash and burn in this tournament, Rubiales should claim responsibility and resign as well.

There are a 100 other ways Rubiales could have handled this situation, and he chose the very worst for Spain.



I feel it would have been smarter and less petty to leave Lopetegui in place and after the tournament just sue him for breach of contract.



This is the football equivalent of treason by Florentino Perez and Lopategui. They better stay on their knees and pray Spain do not implode..

1. A manager who has preached repeatedly to players about blocking everything else out and focussing on the WC, goes and negotiates a new contract. How then can he manage the team thru the WC?

2. Madrid are in process of signing players. Are they not obligated to consult the coach in the process?

3. Say Lopategui is in private conversation with Ramos, will the other players wonder if he is discussing tactics for next match, or Real Madrid business?

Rubiales had no option here. An institution is only as good as its values. Were he to accept this, what happens on the eve of the next tournament with a new coach?

This one is on Perez and Lopategui. Even the Madrid press have identified this as a betrayal...


You make a lot of good points I cannot argue against without bias.
Perez & Lopategui could/should have handled this better. They did not have to agree on anything formal until after the WC. They didnt and clearly both did not have the interest of the National team at hand when they made their decision.

That said, if Spain fails at the WC, that is on Rubiales. He did not have to fire Lopategui. Doing so put the Spanish team further at risk and at the center of a malestrom.

He could have asked Madrid & Lopategui to delay announcing the move until after the tournament.
He could have set very clear guidelines on Club vs National team communications (its not as if Lopategui had any prior history of bias in the first place, so I doubt there was any issue here).

In my opinion, the decision to fire Lopategui was to punish him and set a precedent,...not to act in the best interest of the current Spanish national club.

Anyway, that is all water under the bridge. We shall see soon enough if it was the right decision to change HC before a tournament, or not.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:58 pm 
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You are not supposed to approach a coach under contract without getting clearance from his employers. The Spanish FA are supposed to enforce this, and it was done against them. They have to set an example for others to follow. That's why the FA president kept talking about ethics. The FA are the custodians of the game. They can't be seen to condone wrongdoing. They did the right thing. Full stop.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:41 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
You are not supposed to approach a coach under contract without getting clearance from his employers. The Spanish FA are supposed to enforce this, and it was done against them. They have to set an example for others to follow. That's why the FA president kept talking about ethics. The FA are the custodians of the game. They can't be seen to condone wrongdoing. They did the right thing. Full stop.


With all due respect, the idea of a debate is to have different opinions. You've said your own. Let others voice their opinions as well.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:43 pm 
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charlie wrote:
With all due respect, the idea of a debate is to have different opinions. You've said your own. Let others voice their opinions as well.

With all due respect, there is informed opinion and uninformed opinion.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:15 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
charlie wrote:
With all due respect, the idea of a debate is to have different opinions. You've said your own. Let others voice their opinions as well.

With all due respect, there is informed opinion and uninformed opinion.


Maybe, but you dont have a monopoly on either one or the other.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:23 pm 
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charlie wrote:
cic old boy wrote:
You are not supposed to approach a coach under contract without getting clearance from his employers. The Spanish FA are supposed to enforce this, and it was done against them. They have to set an example for others to follow. That's why the FA president kept talking about ethics. The FA are the custodians of the game. They can't be seen to condone wrongdoing. They did the right thing. Full stop.


With all due respect, the idea of a debate is to have different opinions. You've said your own. Let others voice their opinions as well.


You don't know CIC. :lol: Like I have often said, he is the less refined, significantly less intelligent, less analytical, untrained and uncouth version of TXJ. :rotf: :rotf:

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Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:50 pm 
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charlie wrote:
txj wrote:
F360 wrote:
charlie wrote:
I wanted to analyze arguments from both sides before proposing my opinion.
As a Real Madrid fan, I am also partly biased, even if I hope to be objective.

That said, I have come to the conclusion that Spain made a bad decision to fire Lopetegui.
Its seemed more like a decision born from pride rather than a decision made in the best interests of the team.

The only reason you might give for firing the current coach of a successful team before a tournament is to punish him.
And the only reason to punish him is to make a point. Rubiales described the decision as an "obligation", but was it really?

Obligated to do what? Was he accusing Lopetegui of bias against specific clubs in his potential selection of the team?
Its not as if former coaches for Real Madrid or Barca have not led Spain before.
Vincente Del Bosque spent 18 years as Real Madrid player, and 9 years as Real Madrid Coach before leading Spain to their greatest throphy run ever.
Did he ever show bias against certain clubs?

No that decision was born from pride, plain and simple. And if Spain crash and burn in this tournament, Rubiales should claim responsibility and resign as well.

There are a 100 other ways Rubiales could have handled this situation, and he chose the very worst for Spain.



I feel it would have been smarter and less petty to leave Lopetegui in place and after the tournament just sue him for breach of contract.



This is the football equivalent of treason by Florentino Perez and Lopategui. They better stay on their knees and pray Spain do not implode..

1. A manager who has preached repeatedly to players about blocking everything else out and focussing on the WC, goes and negotiates a new contract. How then can he manage the team thru the WC?

2. Madrid are in process of signing players. Are they not obligated to consult the coach in the process?

3. Say Lopategui is in private conversation with Ramos, will the other players wonder if he is discussing tactics for next match, or Real Madrid business?

Rubiales had no option here. An institution is only as good as its values. Were he to accept this, what happens on the eve of the next tournament with a new coach?

This one is on Perez and Lopategui. Even the Madrid press have identified this as a betrayal...


You make a lot of good points I cannot argue against without bias.
Perez & Lopategui could/should have handled this better. They did not have to agree on anything formal until after the WC. They didnt and clearly both did not have the interest of the National team at hand when they made their decision.

That there is the crux of the matter. You shouldn't betray your country for anything!

That said, if Spain fails at the WC, that is on Rubiales. He did not have to fire Lopategui. Doing so put the Spanish team further at risk and at the center of a malestrom.

He could have asked Madrid & Lopategui to delay announcing the move until after the tournament.

He did not get the chance. He was informed too late for that to happen.

He could have set very clear guidelines on Club vs National team communications (its not as if Lopategui had any prior history of bias in the first place, so I doubt there was any issue here).

Those guidelines already exist for a manager under contract. It was violated by RM.

In my opinion, the decision to fire Lopategui was to punish him and set a precedent,...not to act in the best interest of the current Spanish national club.

On the contrary, the decision was to enforce values and avoid setting a bad/dangerous precedence.

Anyway, that is all water under the bridge. We shall see soon enough if it was the right decision to change HC before a tournament, or not.

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:54 pm 
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charlie wrote:

Maybe, but you dont have a monopoly on either one or the other.

On this subject, I know what I have.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:56 pm 
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danfo driver wrote:
You don't know CIC. :lol: Like I have often said, he is the less refined, significantly less intelligent, less analytical, untrained and uncouth version of TXJ. :rotf: :rotf:

Instead of trolling CIC and every comment about him, state what you think of the substantive matter and move it along. Add some substance to discussions instead of emoticons.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:03 pm 
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danfo driver wrote:
charlie wrote:
cic old boy wrote:
You are not supposed to approach a coach under contract without getting clearance from his employers. The Spanish FA are supposed to enforce this, and it was done against them. They have to set an example for others to follow. That's why the FA president kept talking about ethics. The FA are the custodians of the game. They can't be seen to condone wrongdoing. They did the right thing. Full stop.


With all due respect, the idea of a debate is to have different opinions. You've said your own. Let others voice their opinions as well.


You don't know CIC. :lol: Like I have often said, he is the less refined, significantly less intelligent, less analytical, untrained and uncouth version of TXJ. :rotf: :rotf:


Here comes our resident FOOTBALL-KNOW-NOTHING and no. 1 groupie of the portuguese pygmy. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:56 am 
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Quote:
Only My Mother’s Death was more Painful! Lopetegui speaks on Spain Sack
https://www.brila.net/only-my-mothers-death-was-more-painful-lopetegui-speaks-on-spain-sack/
Brila 0 June 15, 2018 9:44 am


Only My Mother’s Death was more Painful! Lopetegui speaks on Spain SackPhoto Credit: Twitter | realmadriden

Julen Lopetegui insists his conscience is clear after being sacked by Spain on the eve of the World Cup.
Lopetegui was unveiled as the new coach of Real Madrid at the Santiago Bernabeu on Thursday evening.

It came after a whirlwind 48 hours, with Spain FA chief Luis Rubiales accusing the 51-year-old of subterfuge after the European champions made public that he would be replacing Zinedine Zidane.

Rubiales had blasted Lopetegui’s conduct, declaring “we cannot accept how he has acted” and claiming he found out of the deal just five minutes before Madrid made their announcement.

Lopetegui said,”Yesterday, after the death of my mother, was the saddest of my life. But, today is the happiest day of my life.

“Loyalty is telling the truth. When there was something to know, he [Rubiales] was the first person to know.

“I wanted to give the press conference that same day but he was far away so I had to wait for him. Then what happened during those hours, I don’t know.

“We just wanted to be honest with everyone, to make the agreement public. hiding it would have been bad.”


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The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:47 pm 
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Perez should find a play to blame this World Cup on Pique.


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