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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:40 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
txj wrote:
The fundamental issues have not changed from 20yrs ago.

The managers who saw Okocha simply from the perspective of his 'tricks' are all still in the game. How to interpret the spontaneity of the African player is as central today as it was in JJ's time.

Nwakali whose talent was crystal clear among his peers is stuck in the 2nd division of the Dutch league. In the absence of a high quality league in Nigeria, he has to rely on several things he cannot control to break thru- favorable transfer to the right club, a manager who believes in him, ability to adjust to a foreign environ, including weather, language, living alone, etc

Were he in a Nigerian league that is functioning at a high level, he would be closer to the top of his abilities than anything he is able to produce from Div 2 in Holland.

And there are even better talents in Nigeria whose pathway is even worse...

The EPL that has gone global is also the one with West Ham's director of football!!!

The fundamentals have changed. There are more Africans in the big leagues and perspectives have changed. Even dinosaurs like Pardew and Pulis sign Africans.

Nwakali is where he is b/c he is not good enough. Mikel went to Norway over 10 years ago. See how that panned out in less than two years. Our problem is we overhype average players. I don't want to go into looking good with youth football "peers". That would open another debate.

This belief that there are Okochas hiding in Nigeria is just fantasy.

Even if West Ham don't want to sign Africans, there are others in England, France, Germany, Belgium etc looking for cheap talent. The Weah you talk about opened doors for Africans - so much so that Ali Dia, claiming to be his cousin got signed by Southampton and turned out to be shite.


They have not changed nearly enough. Nwakali's talent is globally recognized. How a european coach interpret's his skill sets and the values he assigns to them is what determines how far he'll go in the game, a point made by JJ a few years ago, on his experience at PSG. If he sees value in the skills set, he'll progress in the game. If he merely sees 'tricks', he stands no chance...

He has a much greater chance of finding a manager who identifies with such skills in a Nigerian manager than a European.

And this is but just one aspect of the impact of international transfers on African players.

Complete reliance on such a club classification system, without ground truthing it, is erroneous.

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Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:45 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
cic,

You give great credit to the scouting system. Bros, the scouting system is not as efficient or as effective as you may assume anywhere in the world, let alone scouting African talent in Africa. There are many factors that determine which club a player gets to in Europe. Nigerian players, primarily, are not seeking to play for the "best" club. Their first goal is to earn a living. Take the current signing of Etebo by Stoke. Do you think that an English player of the same talent would make that same move? Note also that players seeking to play in Europe would often have to be far better than their European counterparts to be signed on. It is really difficult to list several factors here but one thing for sure is that the scouting and recruitment is less efficient than we may think in spite of the increased accessibility to data.

Enugu, the scouting system for European clubs is better than the NFF's. There is NO way an Okocha or Weah would be hiding in your village unnoticed. It's virtually impossible. The world is not like it was when we lived in Nigeria!

I understand why players go to crap clubs abroad. But once there, if they prove themselves, they can go elsewhere.

Etebo has gone to Stoke b/c that is his level. If he does the business at Stoke, he should be out of there in no time. Look at Mane at Southampton.

Nna, think about it. 20 years ago, we had Taribo at Inter, Oliseh at Juve, Finidi at Ajax, Kanu - Ajax, Inter, the Arse, etc. This was when the odds were even more stacked against Africans! We have Etebo at Stoke b/c he is not as good as our players that played at top clubs.


The scouting system for european clubs is not what you think it is. The scouting system of European clubs in Nigeria is dependent on local agents working as intermediaries for european club scouts...

Even our U-17 and 20 teams scouting is not as good as you think it might be, much less a european club in Nigeria.

_________________
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:47 pm 
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txj wrote:
They have not changed nearly enough. Nwakali's talent is globally recognized. How a european coach interpret's his skill sets and the values he assigns to them is what determines how far he'll go in the game, a point made by JJ a few years ago, on his experience at PSG. If he sees value in the skills set, he'll progress in the game. If he merely sees 'tricks', he stands no chance...

He has a much greater chance of finding a manager who identifies with such skills in a Nigerian manager than a European.

And this is but just one aspect of the impact of international transfers on African players.

Complete reliance on such a club classification system, without ground truthing it, is erroneous.

:lol: :lol: Brian Clough once said "football is a simple game complicated by idi*ts". If Nwakali's talent is globally recognised, a European coach (they are part of the globe) would see it - even if his current coach doesn't. It is very difficult to suppress genuine talent. Our problem is overhyping average players - esp the grown azz men that dominate in youth tournaments. Where is Chrisantus these days?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:53 pm 
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txj wrote:
The scouting system for european clubs is not what you think it is. The scouting system of European clubs in Nigeria is dependent on local agents working as intermediaries for european club scouts...

Even our U-17 and 20 teams scouting is not as good as you think it might be, much less a european club in Nigeria.

So a local agent has an Okocha-like talent on his books and refuses to help him get to Europe. Maka why? The agent doesn't want to be a millionaire? It is only the agent that has seen the guy? Competitors are not battling to take the player away from his agent and move him abroad sharpish? Some of you guys don't know how the game works. I suggest you speak to some of the agents on this board. The talent pool in Nigeria is average and below average at best! 20+ years ago Finidi went from Calabar Rovers to Ajax. Now, you want to believe that a similar talent would find it more difficult to move! Unbelievable!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:58 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
txj wrote:
They have not changed nearly enough. Nwakali's talent is globally recognized. How a european coach interpret's his skill sets and the values he assigns to them is what determines how far he'll go in the game, a point made by JJ a few years ago, on his experience at PSG. If he sees value in the skills set, he'll progress in the game. If he merely sees 'tricks', he stands no chance...

He has a much greater chance of finding a manager who identifies with such skills in a Nigerian manager than a European.

And this is but just one aspect of the impact of international transfers on African players.

Complete reliance on such a club classification system, without ground truthing it, is erroneous.

:lol: :lol: Brian Clough once said "football is a simple game complicated by idi*ts". If Nwakali's talent is globally recognised, a European coach (they are part of the globe) would see it - even if his current coach doesn't. It is very difficult to suppress genuine talent. Our problem is overhyping average players - esp the grown azz men that dominate in youth tournaments. Where is Chrisantus these days?


If his talent wasn't obvious he would not have emerged tops in a FIFA U-17 championship.

And if Nigeria had a high quality domestic league, he would probably be playing at the level of a Rakitic.

While I fully recognize the age-cheating dimension here, even that by itself is proof of the dysfunction of the transfer system wrt Nigerian players, as it further muddles this career pathway, as it places fully grown men in a youth curricula.

_________________
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:03 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
txj wrote:
The scouting system for european clubs is not what you think it is. The scouting system of European clubs in Nigeria is dependent on local agents working as intermediaries for european club scouts...

Even our U-17 and 20 teams scouting is not as good as you think it might be, much less a european club in Nigeria.

So a local agent has an Okocha-like talent on his books and refuses to help him get to Europe. Maka why? The agent doesn't want to be a millionaire? It is only the agent that has seen the guy? Competitors are not battling to take the player away from his agent and move him abroad sharpish? Some of you guys don't know how the game works. I suggest you speak to some of the agents on this board. The talent pool in Nigeria is average and below average at best! 20+ years ago Finidi went from Calabar Rovers to Ajax. Now, you want to believe that a similar talent would find it more difficult to move! Unbelievable!


I am fully wired into the domestic game. The reach of the agents is not anything close to what u think..You've been away too long...

The talent pool remains rich, the problem is the absence of proper structures to develop it, as is the case in nearly all aspects of the country. What we had in the past, which was never first class in the first place, has declined drastically.

_________________
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:43 am 
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cic,

I bet you remember the popular Ali Dia case, the guy who ended up playing in a game for Graeme Souness' Southampton upon a purported recommendation by George Weah over the phone. Although it happened years ago, that scenario is not far removed from some ways that players get trials even today. You may have players aged 22, one is a Nigerian academy claiming to be 17 years old and the other is in the NPFL. Guess what? The "17 year old" from the academy is more likely to get a crack into a top Euro team than the guy from the NPFL not because of performance but potential.

Even your acknowledgment in Etebo's case point to the fact that signing of these players is not as scientific as we may think. If Etebo has to move around smaller clubs for a period before getting to a top club, whereas a player of similar talent is at a top club already, does that not demonstrate a quirk in the scouting and recruiting of a player. Even at that, there is no guarantee that a guy like Etebo will ever get there, talent or no talent. If Stoke signed him for a long period, who is to say that they will not make outrageous demands for his sale and then other clubs raising doubts about his age to scuttle a transfer?

The reality is that scouting, recruitment, and transfers are not as scientific and clean as we may think. There are just too many variables that errors are quite possible and they do occur.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:41 am 
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txj wrote:
If his talent wasn't obvious he would not have emerged tops in a FIFA U-17 championship.

And if Nigeria had a high quality domestic league, he would probably be playing at the level of a Rakitic.

While I fully recognize the age-cheating dimension here, even that by itself is proof of the dysfunction of the transfer system wrt Nigerian players, as it further muddles this career pathway, as it places fully grown men in a youth curricula.

I've told to stop talking about youth tournaments so that I don't take this discussion down another route.

There's no guarantee that Nigeria having a high quality league would help Nwakali. The most important thing in football is probably talent. Yes, talent needs to be nurtured in the right environment. But it has to be there in the first place. Our genuinely talented footballers have usually not had problems being spotted by European clubs and being successful. It is usually the average and below average ones that suffer.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:48 am 
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txj wrote:

I am fully wired into the domestic game. The reach of the agents is not anything close to what u think..You've been away too long...

The talent pool remains rich, the problem is the absence of proper structures to develop it, as is the case in nearly all aspects of the country. What we had in the past, which was never first class in the first place, has declined drastically.

Many Nigerians prefer to believe in myths. There are many like you that think we have Okochas playing under flyover bridges in Lagos.

Y’all need to wake up. Football has moved beyond the Nigeria we grew up in. Unless that new Okocha is hiding in Sambisa Forest, somebody would have seen him by now and he would be either on his way to an academy or a local club and in Europe in a matter of days.

What we have right now in Nigeria is a whole heap of average and below average talent and the poor coaching is not helping.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:55 am 
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Enugu II wrote:
cic,

I bet you remember the popular Ali Dia case, the guy who ended up playing in a game for Graeme Souness' Southampton upon a purported recommendation by George Weah over the phone. Although it happened years ago, that scenario is not far removed from some ways that players get trials even today. You may have players aged 22, one is a Nigerian academy claiming to be 17 years old and the other is in the NPFL. Guess what? The "17 year old" from the academy is more likely to get a crack into a top Euro team than the guy from the NPFL not because of performance but potential.

Even your acknowledgment in Etebo's case point to the fact that signing of these players is not as scientific as we may think. If Etebo has to move around smaller clubs for a period before getting to a top club, whereas a player of similar talent is at a top club already, does that not demonstrate a quirk in the scouting and recruiting of a player. Even at that, there is no guarantee that a guy like Etebo will ever get there, talent or no talent. If Stoke signed him for a long period, who is to say that they will not make outrageous demands for his sale and then other clubs raising doubts about his age to scuttle a transfer?

The reality is that scouting, recruitment, and transfers are not as scientific and clean as we may think. There are just too many variables that errors are quite possible and they do occur.

Enugu, I mentioned Ali Dia earlier. It buttresses my point. He was a crap player and still got a chance at Southampton. There was also Christopher Wreh that played for the Arse probably b/c he was Weah's cousin. But a player with Weah's talent would not need much help to be seen and to thrive in today's game.

Etebo is a very average player. If he is better than average, he would be out of Stoke after max 2 seasons. If Stoke ask for silly money for him, there would be a queue to sign him still - if he was that good. Look at Mane, see Naby Keita moving from Leipzig to Liverpool for £70m. You can't keep a good player down. Our boys are playing in the backwaters b/c that's their level.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:08 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
txj wrote:
If his talent wasn't obvious he would not have emerged tops in a FIFA U-17 championship.

And if Nigeria had a high quality domestic league, he would probably be playing at the level of a Rakitic.

While I fully recognize the age-cheating dimension here, even that by itself is proof of the dysfunction of the transfer system wrt Nigerian players, as it further muddles this career pathway, as it places fully grown men in a youth curricula.

I've told to stop talking about youth tournaments so that I don't take this discussion down another route.

There's no guarantee that Nigeria having a high quality league would help Nwakali. The most important thing in football is probably talent. Yes, talent needs to be nurtured in the right environment. But it has to be there in the first place. Our genuinely talented footballers have usually not had problems being spotted by European clubs and being successful. It is usually the average and below average ones that suffer.



The crucial missing ingredient is the structures and ability to develop talent. The talent base is still there, but the structures we had in the past have virtually collapsed. What we have now is a mixed bag, and one which largely serves personal financial interests. That is why the predominant focus is getting your players into the youth teams, or falsifying ages to be able to get into teams in Europe, which has serious, long term detrimental effects.

And it is not about having an Okocha under the bridge. Its about a broader systemic failure...but the talent base remains, that I'm absolutely sure of...

But a thriving local league where players have the possibility to fully develop and earn a decent living will mean our players would not have to depend on the vagaries of the european transfer system, clubs and managers, with the opportunity instead to learn in a familiar environment. Not to talk of not needing to falsify ages...

_________________
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:11 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
txj wrote:


Not necessarily the case for sub-Saharan African players, because it comes down to factors in the international transfer of players, including luck, as well as the club/manager of the player in Europe and how they interpret the specific skill sets of the player.

Gbenga Okunowo once played for Barca. While he's a talented player, you would be mistaken to rank him wrt the SE as high as his club would've suggest.

Ultimately, I see it as an important item on a Nigerian player's resume. But I would definitely need more than that to come to a definitive conclusion.

You have to try and understand the game a little deeper than European orthodoxy...

An "indicator" means it provides info on the quality of a player, but not everything you need to know.

If you are holding down a regular spot for the best teams in the world, you must be very good. They are not in the business of fielding players that would lead to a drop in quality, esp as they have the resources to buy the best.

A sub-Saharan African player at he beginning of his career may not be at a top club, but he will end up there sooner rather than later if he is top quality. Gbenga Okunowo was at Barca b/c he showed potential to be a top player, but he wasn't able to deliver for a variety of reasons, including injuries.

Modric and Rakitic are among the best midfielders in the world (top 10). It is why they are at Real/Barca. We don't have players at those clubs b/c our boys are not good enough. When we had West, Finidi, Oliseh and co, they played for top clubs. And football then was not as globalised as it is now.

They should just award the cup to Croatia.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:14 pm 
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joao wrote:
I have to agree with txj, with Mexico and Switzerland haven proved the point that
club affiliations does not sum up the quality of a national team. Another proof is the Icelanders
holding off a 'loaded' Argentine squad.
Football matches are not a linear process, else teams can be anointed and fans would
not be watching as there will be no surprises.

Why is so hard for them to understand you? Anyway, this is a forum and eghu na okuku can contribute.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:18 pm 
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japan beat colombia today cic old boy :taunt: :taunt: :taunt: :taunt: :taunt: :taunt: the world has changed, so called big names don't mean crap anymore in international footy, you clowns still don't want to learn.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:14 pm 
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BTW I am available to coach Nigeria after the world cup.

Curriculum Vitae of Tbite

Brief

18 years of experience checking the FIFA/Coca-Cola rankings
16 Years of experience refreshing and analyzing FIFA/Coca-Cola rankings
Looking for a team in need of checking FIFA rankings and proceeding to roll over.

Skills

typing http://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/ ... index.html in web browsers such as chrome, edge, firefox, safari and opera.
scrolling through the fifa ranking website
filtering fifa ranking for best mover, worst mover and other filters
taking screen captures of fifa ranking website
adept in pep talk for rolling over based on fifa ranking
counting number of players in Big European Clubs
adept in pep talk for rolling over based on number of players in Big European Clubs

Personality and People Skills

work well in teams where people check fifa rankings, team-members must share vision for rolling over. Team Selections will reflect the need to roll-over. I am stubborn, fierce and will repeat the same again and again.

Suitability for Role

In addition to checking fifa rankings periodically (monthly), also receiving formal training for ELO training, UEFA Coefficient page etc.

Formal Accreditation

FIFA Rankings Badge B
Diploma of Rolling Over (Institute of Learning at the Mundial)

Referees
Groundnut Raw
Lager Beer
Bertinder Vogts (Alias: Berti Stash)


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:37 pm 
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The senior players and Nigerian assistants have to start influencing the coach's player selections and tactics.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:53 pm 
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marko wrote:
Who hired the coach?


It's unfortunate that the white man hires a white man to coach the Nigerian team Very unfortunate..

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:13 pm 
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txj wrote:

The crucial missing ingredient is the structures and ability to develop talent. The talent base is still there, but the structures we had in the past have virtually collapsed. What we have now is a mixed bag, and one which largely serves personal financial interests. That is why the predominant focus is getting your players into the youth teams, or falsifying ages to be able to get into teams in Europe, which has serious, long term detrimental effects.

And it is not about having an Okocha under the bridge. Its about a broader systemic failure...but the talent base remains, that I'm absolutely sure of...

But a thriving local league where players have the possibility to fully develop and earn a decent living will mean our players would not have to depend on the vagaries of the european transfer system, clubs and managers, with the opportunity instead to learn in a familiar environment. Not to talk of not needing to falsify ages...

While you need structures to develop talent, there is no guarantee that once you have structures, talent flows through. Barca has the best academy system in the world. But they have not produced world class talent since Busquets in 2007.

Yes, a decent local league helps. But the point is that even with all our problems, we produced world class players in the past.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:10 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
txj wrote:

The crucial missing ingredient is the structures and ability to develop talent. The talent base is still there, but the structures we had in the past have virtually collapsed. What we have now is a mixed bag, and one which largely serves personal financial interests. That is why the predominant focus is getting your players into the youth teams, or falsifying ages to be able to get into teams in Europe, which has serious, long term detrimental effects.

And it is not about having an Okocha under the bridge. Its about a broader systemic failure...but the talent base remains, that I'm absolutely sure of...

But a thriving local league where players have the possibility to fully develop and earn a decent living will mean our players would not have to depend on the vagaries of the european transfer system, clubs and managers, with the opportunity instead to learn in a familiar environment. Not to talk of not needing to falsify ages...

While you need structures to develop talent, there is no guarantee that once you have structures, talent flows through. Barca has the best academy system in the world. But they have not produced world class talent since Busquets in 2007.

Yes, a decent local league helps. But the point is that even with all our problems, we produced world class players in the past.


La Masia is still producing talent in droves, even if they cannot get into the Barca first team. More importantly, La Liga and the Bundesliga are producing talent in droves...

But in our case, we don't even have what we had in the past!

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:23 pm 
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txj wrote:
La Masia is still producing talent in droves, even if they cannot get into the Barca first team. More importantly, La Liga and the Bundesliga are producing talent in droves...

But in our case, we don't even have what we had in the past!

La Masia at 20m euro a year is there to feed the first team and it is failing to do so. We had a messed up league in the past and still produced world class talent. Okocha was not a product of any structure.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:02 pm 
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Not enough of an excuse. As pragmatic as Rohr may be, one would argue, with much conviction, his instructions did not included Andres Obiesta moving with the urgency of an old man's void and Moses rolling in the mud like Daddy Pig, Peppa's father, at every opportunity. Apathetic, half-hearted, lazy, lethargic, stereotypes that, though undesired, took residence in High Castle long before Herr Rohr arrived. The so called Nigerian Way, be banded around as if it were a critically acclaimed fighting style on par with the bonitos, tiki takes and gegenpresses. On many an occasion this Nigerian Way has been pedestrian, slow, ponderous, with a Yakubu, Musa, Emenike, Ideyie purchasing land 20 yards offside. It hasn't been energetic for the best part of 20 years, Rohr has simply given the lackadaisical nature a handful of Zopiclone and a nightcap. Yes it was dreadful, but what about Iran, Greece, were they not showers of sh*t too?

For all the talk of styles and mindsets, most of which gathered wind, hurricanes even, after Brazil's swashbuckling start...But, how soon after their Joga Bonita, did Samba slip out of the vest top and skin tight slacks, to throw on a tuxedo and foxtrot? Aggressive pressing at times, men behind the ball at others, hardly stereotypically Samba. Nature's ever changing existence mandates evolution, survival of the fittest. Brazil was smashed by a press and counter and unsurprisingly have added attributes of their oppressor to their identity. Whether liked or loathed, the King is the King and one cannot wear the crown without knowing how be the King. Should Germany abdicate the throne, then a new sovereign will be crowned and with that, a new blueprint is born. Yes, Nigeria should play to their instincts, embrace their strengths and advantages, but given that this flavour of the month mindset has made lesser impact on the Mundial than those big behemoths, Costa Rica and South Korea, in all its attempts, its fair to say, its not all that.

Rohr is hopeless and was always going to be, but with no more than a flogging in the round of 16 to boast,any talk of mindsets should be muted. Nigeria has done nothing of note, in the business rounds of any Mundial. By then, they're usually at home watching on the box. And thats the mindset to be championed?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:29 pm 
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CIC has it right. Some of you are making this more complicated than it is. Football fundamentally is about the quality of individual players...around which tactics, preparation, fitness, and chemistry are meaningful.

All things being equal, save some luck, the team with the better players wins more often. Obviously there are upsets. There are outlier runs, like Greece when it won the Euros a few years back.

And to produce enough quality players, it's a numbers game. Give as many kids as possible an opportunity with the necessary support. Along the way, the cream rises. A good league, program management, coaching, and continuity result in a NT that produces enough players to do consistently well.

Finally, yes, the better players tend to command positions on the best club teams. For the cost efficiency CIC described. And nobody is saying a collection of names means other teams without them should roll over...only that the team with the better players is more likely to win.

We've all played this game. It's simple enough. Put the better guys on the same team and they'll more often win.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:34 am 
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mate wrote:
CIC has it right. Some of you are making this more complicated than it is. Football fundamentally is about the quality of individual players...around which tactics, preparation, fitness, and chemistry are meaningful.

All things being equal, save some luck, the team with the better players wins more often. Obviously there are upsets. There are outlier runs, like Greece when it won the Euros a few years back.

And to produce enough quality players, it's a numbers game. Give as many kids as possible an opportunity with the necessary support. Along the way, the cream rises. A good league, program management, coaching, and continuity result in a NT that produces enough players to do consistently well.

Finally, yes, the better players tend to command positions on the best club teams. For the cost efficiency CIC described. And nobody is saying a collection of names means other teams without them should roll over...only that the team with the better players is more likely to win.

We've all played this game. It's simple enough. Put the better guys on the same team and they'll more often win.

You talk sense when you are not talking politics! Hierro said: "It’s the players who play. We’re sitting on the bench.” 9 times out of 10, the team with better players will win. Tactics, grit, organisation, etc can help the inferior team beat the superior team.

The production of world class talent depends on a lot of factors. Sometimes it's just luck - like our 94 team. Having structures in place can help you produce a lot of good players.

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