Today Rohr Earned His Stripe As A Coach

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Re: Today Rohr Earned His Stripe As A Coach

Post by YemiBrazil »

Lolly wrote:
YemiBrazil wrote:
Lolly wrote:
mate wrote:
YemiBrazil wrote:
Lolly wrote:
YemiBrazil wrote:Lolly, really?????? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yes. You no sabi ball. Take it from someone who is a coach and re-watches games over and over.

https://www.coachesvoice.com/tactics-cr ... ric-moses/

Image
I can bet you have not seen half of live matches and trainings that I've seen seen across 4 continents :lol: :lol:

Good stuff Lolly. I just would highlight that things get opportunistically fluid. Croatia played a lot in depth against Nigeria, relying on possession, making opportunistic forays. It's not like chess, 4 white pawns vs 1 orange pawn arrayed statically, not that you don't know this.

I just think if Nigeria committed more men and time to attack, we'd have had even more quality counterattacks.
That is what I have been trying to tell our internet coaches. We would have chopped so many goals.
Except that committing more men and time under a comfortable 3-5-2 won't give you any space for counter attacks. The 3-5-2 morphs into different linear numbers depending on whether you are attacking, building up or defending. In Brazil, Corinthians of the 2000s perfected 3-5-2 with wing backs while ultra conservative Internacionale had 3-5-2 that leaned more towards 5-3-2 for most of the game. The flexibility of 3-5-2 is the reason why conventional footballers don't like it.
For some strange reason, the current bunch of SE players appear to be very comfortable with it and we see even the complicated 'morphings' done very easily during 2nd half of some of those uncomfortable friendlies that we played.
It is not that complicated guys :lol: :lol: :lol:
You still don't get it. One of your full backs will always be occupied staying with the wide player in the opposing 4-2-4 formation. And if he dares bomb forward, you will be done in a quick counter-attack down his position where the wide player will run towards our goal unopposed. That was why Modirc played deep, (giving us a false sense of security) so he can spread long balls to the wings. It is complicated for those not in the know. :lol: :lol:
This is ridiculous. Are you sure you have coaching certificate??? :lol: :lol: :lol:
That's why I said you need to see how it's done in other places - only one wing-back bombs forward at a time and the defensive unit shifts to cover the space. I've seen this done effortlessly hundreds of times dude... your team must be comfortable with 3-5-2 to pull it off, fortunately Nigeria's team is! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Last edited by YemiBrazil on Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Today Rohr Earned His Stripe As A Coach

Post by Lolly »

YemiBrazil wrote:... to the guys talking about Croatia vs Argentina - personnel & speed aside, what made you think Argentina's formation mirror's Nigeria's 3-5-2 or is it because you saw 3 at the back?? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Bros, just give it up. Rohr is an experienced and he did the right thing in that match. What we lacked was cutting edge on both wings especially on the left. And Mikel did not move forward with intent.
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Re: Today Rohr Earned His Stripe As A Coach

Post by YemiBrazil »

Lolly wrote:
YemiBrazil wrote:... to the guys talking about Croatia vs Argentina - personnel & speed aside, what made you think Argentina's formation mirror's Nigeria's 3-5-2 or is it because you saw 3 at the back?? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Bros, just give it up. Rohr is an experienced and he did the right thing in that match. What we lacked was cutting edge on both wings especially on the left. And Mikel did not move forward with intent.
No you need to give it up - come with your points and let's dissect it. This is not nuclear science or artificial intelligence algorithms.. the cutting edge issue on the wings would have been addressed on that day with the right formation :lol:
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Re: Today Rohr Earned His Stripe As A Coach

Post by Lolly »

YemiBrazil wrote:
Lolly wrote:
YemiBrazil wrote: Except that committing more men and time under a comfortable 3-5-2 won't give you any space for counter attacks. The 3-5-2 morphs into different linear numbers depending on whether you are attacking, building up or defending. In Brazil, Corinthians of the 2000s perfected 3-5-2 with wing backs while ultra conservative Internacionale had 3-5-2 that leaned more towards 5-3-2 for most of the game. The flexibility of 3-5-2 is the reason why conventional footballers don't like it.
For some strange reason, the current bunch of SE players appear to be very comfortable with it and we see even the complicated 'morphings' done very easily during 2nd half of some of those uncomfortable friendlies that we played.
It is not that complicated guys :lol: :lol: :lol:
You still don't get it. One of your full backs will always be occupied staying with the wide player in the opposing 4-2-4 formation. And if he dares bomb forward, you will be done in a quick counter-attack down his position where the wide player will run towards our goal unopposed. That was why Modirc played deep, (giving us a false sense of security) so he can spread long balls to the wings. It is complicated for those not in the know. :lol: :lol:
This is ridiculous. Are you sure you have coaching certificate??? :lol: :lol: :lol:
That's why I said you need to see how it's done in other places - only one wing-back bombs forward at a time and the defensive unit shifts to cover the space. I've seen this done effortlessly hundreds of times dude... your team must be comfortable with 3-5-2 to pull it off, fortunately Nigeria's team is! :lol: :lol: :lol:
And if only one bombs forward, you are always left with 4 at the back throughout the game. And then it defeats the purpose of playing 3-5-2 hence why a 4-3-3 is the better formation to play. Bros, go do some more study on formations.

From yesterdays report;

https://www.itv.com/fifaworldcup/croati ... next-round
Argentina boss Jorge Sampaoli had made three changes from the draw with Iceland but his team were all at sea throughout in their 3-5-2 formation, with the South Americans fortunate Caballero denied Ivan Perisic when he was allowed to glide into the box early on.
Last edited by Lolly on Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Today Rohr Earned His Stripe As A Coach

Post by Lolly »

Cellular wrote:
Lolly wrote:
Cellular wrote:
Lolly wrote:
YemiBrazil wrote:
mystic wrote:
YemiBrazil wrote:He should stop being unnecessarily over-academic by complicating simple things - we played series of friendlies. We all saw what happens each time we shift to 3-5-2. I am not an expert on football formations but what we all saw was the fact that our team was always way more comfortable with that formation. How our Einsteins arrive at how it won't work against Croatia is what I don't understand. When you allow our players play formations that they are comfortable with they will confuse even the inventor of the formation with the way they will use it to adapt to different opponents. Do your tweaks but let these boys play to their strength. There is only going to be one World Cup winner so let's have fun and fight it out till the end. At least if we crash out we know we gave our very best not shackled by some stupid formation.

We're capable in different formations. Issue in the first game wasn't formation.
Yes we were capable in different formations but much more capable with 3-5-2. We all saw that during previous matches. The issue in the first game was formation - based on our past matches.
Croatia came with a 4-2-4 formation and it would have been suicidal playing 3-5-2.
Lolly, I beg to disagree. Against Croatia we should have adjusted to a 352. They played too deep and had their playmaker Modric playing deep with 2 CM in front of him. 3-5-2 allows you to isolate defenders one-on-one in the flanks.

With our personnel, 352 is the best option.
Bros, watch the game again when you have some spare time. Their plan was to exploit out weak full backs (Shehu and Idowu) and push two strikers up on our two central defenders. This one na for qualified coaches, not internet coaches. :lol: :lol:

https://www.coachesvoice.com/tactics-cr ... ric-moses/
Analysis: Croatia

Image

Croatia set up in an overtly attacking 4-2-4 formation, with Luka Modric and Ivan Rakitic as the two central midfielders given the responsibility of distributing the ball to the four forwards. The attacking quartet consisted of Ivan Perisic and Ante Rebic on the flanks, and Mario Mandzukic and Andrej Kramaric through the middle.

Croatia’s performance and game plan in the first half was clear but highly ineffective. Modric and Rakitic would either send long passes from deep positions to get Perisic or Rebic in behind the full-backs to cross for the two strikers, or they would send the ball towards Mandzukic or Kramaric to hold up or flick on.

These passes rarely met their destination, spoiling the potential to create attacking opportunities. Croatia only posed a threat when Kramaric dropped a little deeper to offer a set option from Mandzukic or a different passing line for Modric and Rakitic. Perisic and Rebic swapped sides during the first half, but this didn’t change anything.

Croatia came out for the second half looking a much more threatening and well-structured unit. Marcelo Brozovic replaced Kramaric and played alongside Rakitic in the holding position, which pushed Modric further up the field to provide another line between midfield and attack to assist in the build-up.

Zlatko Dalic’s team now had an alternative plan away from the direct pass to Mandzukic, which allowed their star player, Modric, to get on the ball in more threatening areas than previously seen.

Out of possession, Croatia would press in a 4-4-2 mid-block with Perisic and Rebic dropping in to help Rakitic and Modric in midfield. One of the wide pair would push up to join the two forwards when the ball was with the full-back, while the opposite midfielder would tuck in with Rakitic and Modric.

With Croatia happy to let Nigeria have the ball at the back, their opponents would invariably lose patience and too often resorted to long balls towards striker Odion Ighalo – who was outnumbered and struggled to hold the ball up.
Oga, the telling sentence there was what they did out of possession.

Not what they did when they had the ball. Even our team changed formation when we had the ball as against when we were out of possession.
And how will a 3-5-2 have helped us?
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Re: Today Rohr Earned His Stripe As A Coach

Post by zee »

Cellular wrote:
YemiBrazil wrote:He should stop being unnecessarily over-academic by complicating simple things - we played series of friendlies. We all saw what happens each time we shift to 3-5-2. I am not an expert on football formations but what we all saw was the fact that our team was always way more comfortable with that formation. How our Einsteins arrive at how it won't work against Croatia is what I don't understand. When you allow our players play formations that they are comfortable with they will confuse even the inventor of the formation with the way they will use it to adapt to different opponents. Do your tweaks but let these boys play to their strength. There is only going to be one World Cup winner so let's have fun and fight it out till the end. At least if we crash out we know we gave our very best not shackled by some stupid formation.
Kpom!

Rohr did not do anything we haven't been shouting about on this forum.

We asked that we shift to 352 to be more effective.

Rohr is still VERY SLOOOOW with subs. I see no reason to wait when it is obvious something is not working. Idowu, off. Etebo, off. Moses, off. All 3 were having horrendous games by their standards... and should have been subbed off. Don't know if we would have been lucky carrying such deadwood in future games.
Chair.................any world cup match that Moses or Mikel doesn't feature, you will see how WACK we will be.
Moses :clap: will all his 'mistakes' is still a nightmare for all our opponents..................Moses :clap: is just like Musa :clap: and Mikel :clap: , without them well are like Rwanda or Ghana :mrgreen:
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Re: Today Rohr Earned His Stripe As A Coach

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oscar52 wrote:Still don't trust is judgement. Starting Idowu over Ebuehi was a bone head decision and it could have cost us the game in the first half. He has a knack for not wanting to line up his best players to start the game which is weird. The team won in spite of him.
BS....................Ebuehi 'cause' two penalties , it might have ended 2-2 just b/c of his 'kindergarten' mistakes.
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Re: Today Rohr Earned His Stripe As A Coach

Post by Cellular »

Lolly wrote:
And how will a 3-5-2 have helped us?
They lined up 4-2-4 when they are attacking. With the aim of sending balls to Mandzukic. With a 3-5-2. it adjusts to a 5-3-2... giving you 3 central defenders to deal with Mandzukic. You have your wingbacks now defending against the cross. And you out number them in central midfield 3-2.
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Re: Today Rohr Earned His Stripe As A Coach

Post by mate »

Yemi, I still think you liken this to chess. Believing it's a match between equally weighted pieces in the same number. With fixed positioning being impacting.

It breaks down given the fluidity and difference in personnel.

I joked with friends that Rakitic + Modric + Kovacic + Perisic vs Messi = Rook + Rook + Rook + Rook vs Queen. Too many mutually reinforcing Rooks.

:tic:
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Re: Today Rohr Earned His Stripe As A Coach

Post by YemiBrazil »

mate wrote:Yemi, I still think you liken this to chess. Believing it's a match between equally weighted pieces in the same number. With fixed positioning being impacting.

It breaks down given the fluidity and difference in personnel.

I joked with friends that Rakitic + Modric + Kovacic + Perisic vs Messi = Rook + Rook + Rook + Rook vs Queen. Too many mutually reinforcing Rooks.

:tic:
:lol: :lol: You & Lolly are the ones actually not taking account of difference in personnel - I have stated that from the beginning.
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Re: Today Rohr Earned His Stripe As A Coach

Post by Lolly »

Cellular wrote:
Lolly wrote:
And how will a 3-5-2 have helped us?
They lined up 4-2-4 when they are attacking. With the aim of sending balls to Mandzukic. With a 3-5-2. it adjusts to a 5-3-2... giving you 3 central defenders to deal with Mandzukic. You have your wingbacks now defending against the cross. And you out number them in central midfield 3-2.
Their strategy for transition from defending to attacking was a quick long ball from Modric to the wide players, catching us out on the wings. Rohr knew what he was doing hence why Croatia didn't have a shot on goal for the whole first half and for majority of the second half.

What affected our play was the slow transition from defence to attack and the lack of quality on the wings.
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Re: Today Rohr Earned His Stripe As A Coach

Post by YemiBrazil »

Cellular wrote:
Lolly wrote:
And how will a 3-5-2 have helped us?
They lined up 4-2-4 when they are attacking. With the aim of sending balls to Mandzukic. With a 3-5-2. it adjusts to a 5-3-2... giving you 3 central defenders to deal with Mandzukic. You have your wingbacks now defending against the cross. And you out number them in central midfield 3-2.
:lol: :lol: Honestly I don't know where Lolly got his coaching certificate. Maybe Uncle 1naira's business center just printed it for him and laminated by Mentallo. For Croatia to neutralize Nigeria's 3-5-2 they need mad speed. They don't have it, simple. Deep inside him, Rohr himself would know he failed the team against Croatia.
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Re: Today Rohr Earned His Stripe As A Coach

Post by YemiBrazil »

Lolly wrote:
YemiBrazil wrote:
Lolly wrote:
YemiBrazil wrote: Except that committing more men and time under a comfortable 3-5-2 won't give you any space for counter attacks. The 3-5-2 morphs into different linear numbers depending on whether you are attacking, building up or defending. In Brazil, Corinthians of the 2000s perfected 3-5-2 with wing backs while ultra conservative Internacionale had 3-5-2 that leaned more towards 5-3-2 for most of the game. The flexibility of 3-5-2 is the reason why conventional footballers don't like it.
For some strange reason, the current bunch of SE players appear to be very comfortable with it and we see even the complicated 'morphings' done very easily during 2nd half of some of those uncomfortable friendlies that we played.
It is not that complicated guys :lol: :lol: :lol:
You still don't get it. One of your full backs will always be occupied staying with the wide player in the opposing 4-2-4 formation. And if he dares bomb forward, you will be done in a quick counter-attack down his position where the wide player will run towards our goal unopposed. That was why Modirc played deep, (giving us a false sense of security) so he can spread long balls to the wings. It is complicated for those not in the know. :lol: :lol:
This is ridiculous. Are you sure you have coaching certificate??? :lol: :lol: :lol:
That's why I said you need to see how it's done in other places - only one wing-back bombs forward at a time and the defensive unit shifts to cover the space. I've seen this done effortlessly hundreds of times dude... your team must be comfortable with 3-5-2 to pull it off, fortunately Nigeria's team is! :lol: :lol: :lol:
And if only one bombs forward, you are always left with 4 at the back throughout the game. And then it defeats the purpose of playing 3-5-2 hence why a 4-3-3 is the better formation to play. Bros, go do some more study on formations.

From yesterdays report;

https://www.itv.com/fifaworldcup/croati ... next-round
Argentina boss Jorge Sampaoli had made three changes from the draw with Iceland but his team were all at sea throughout in their 3-5-2 formation, with the South Americans fortunate Caballero denied Ivan Perisic when he was allowed to glide into the box early on.
This is what you need to see - https://resources.fifa.com/image/upload ... nyaz43xkp8
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Re: Today Rohr Earned His Stripe As A Coach

Post by mate »

YemiBrazil wrote:
Cellular wrote:
Lolly wrote:
And how will a 3-5-2 have helped us?
They lined up 4-2-4 when they are attacking. With the aim of sending balls to Mandzukic. With a 3-5-2. it adjusts to a 5-3-2... giving you 3 central defenders to deal with Mandzukic. You have your wingbacks now defending against the cross. And you out number them in central midfield 3-2.
:lol: :lol: Honestly I don't know where Lolly got his coaching certificate. Maybe Uncle 1naira's business center just printed it for him and laminated by Mentallo. For Croatia to neutralize Nigeria's 3-5-2 they need mad speed. They don't have it, simple. Deep inside him, Rohr himself would know he failed the team against Croatia.
Croatia have the overall speed of pace, execution, skill, and thought...leveraging that the ball is faster than any player when fluently passed. More so if a team of lesser capability here comes at them in number.
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Re: Today Rohr Earned His Stripe As A Coach

Post by oscar52 »

metalalloy wrote:
oscar52 wrote:Still don't trust is judgement. Starting Idowu over Ebuehi was a bone head decision and it could have cost us the game in the first half. He has a knack for not wanting to line up his best players to start the game which is weird. The team won in spite of him.
You want him to play his "best players" even if it means playing them out of position? Ok, that makes a ton of sense :clap:
That's not what I meant. I meant he should be playing the best players in each position. Ebuehi > Idowu. Iheanacho > Ighalo etc.
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Re: Today Rohr Earned His Stripe As A Coach

Post by marko »

Why was Nigeria scared to attack in the 1st half? Or was it the fact when Iceland lost the ball, tbey suddenly had 8 men in defence? Ihenacho did not have a good game today, maybe he will get more joy with Argentines slow defence, the minute Iceland became confident, that was their undoing, a team like Iceland should not stand toe to toe with any ball playing team, Against Argentina, they were defensive, maybe they listened to the pundits rather than play to their strength

Still dont know what is Nigeria strongest team
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Re: Today Rohr Earned His Stripe As A Coach

Post by Enyi »

oscar52 wrote:
metalalloy wrote:
oscar52 wrote:Still don't trust is judgement. Starting Idowu over Ebuehi was a bone head decision and it could have cost us the game in the first half. He has a knack for not wanting to line up his best players to start the game which is weird. The team won in spite of him.
You want him to play his "best players" even if it means playing them out of position? Ok, that makes a ton of sense :clap:
That's not what I meant. I meant he should be playing the best players in each position. Ebuehi > Idowu. Iheanacho > Ighalo etc.
Since when did Ebuehi become a left back.......? that he came on in emergency today and did well, he is now first choice LB....

BTW...Playing Moses RWB, stroke of genius, playing Musa and Iheanacho....another masterclass.

everyone here was on the verge of making Etebo captain after the croatia game...today he had a stinker.

And for the guy that said make 3 changes.....and then someone gets injured....your down to 10 men because you want to make quick subs....

Idowu ineffective....yanked him off halftime, Ighalo for Kelechi made same as we need top retain the ball upfront more. Iwobi sub, is just a time wasting sub. Etebo though having a bad game still hustled...something Alex needs to learn
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Re: Today Rohr Earned His Stripe As A Coach

Post by danfo driver »

Lolly wrote:
zee wrote:Rohr didn't pick this team nor the tactics his own.
The senior players read the riot act to the football coward........'WE WANT AND WILL PLAY AS NIGERIANS IN THE REMAINING MATCHES'.
Shame no dey catch you? :taunt: :taunt:
Zee is a low down shameless thing. So, definitely, shame no dey catch that thing.
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metalalloy wrote: Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?
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Re: Today Rohr Earned His Stripe As A Coach

Post by danfo driver »

YemiBrazil wrote:
metalalloy wrote:
YemiBrazil wrote:
Lolly wrote:
YemiBrazil wrote:
mystic wrote:
YemiBrazil wrote:He should stop being unnecessarily over-academic by complicating simple things - we played series of friendlies. We all saw what happens each time we shift to 3-5-2. I am not an expert on football formations but what we all saw was the fact that our team was always way more comfortable with that formation. How our Einsteins arrive at how it won't work against Croatia is what I don't understand. When you allow our players play formations that they are comfortable with they will confuse even the inventor of the formation with the way they will use it to adapt to different opponents. Do your tweaks but let these boys play to their strength. There is only going to be one World Cup winner so let's have fun and fight it out till the end. At least if we crash out we know we gave our very best not shackled by some stupid formation.

We're capable in different formations. Issue in the first game wasn't formation.
Yes we were capable in different formations but much more capable with 3-5-2. We all saw that during previous matches. The issue in the first game was formation - based on our past matches.
Croatia came with a 4-2-4 formation and it would have been suicidal playing 3-5-2.
That is not true. It is in fact a fallacy. They need speed not just 4-2-4. They would have been forced to adjust within 5 minutes!
Did you watch Croatia vs Argentina yesterday? Please stick to selling bras for highway :taunt:
Mentallo, you have been noticed - I know we need great players like Albrighton & Gray to beat Croatia :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
"it is better to be excited now and disappointed later, than it is to be disappointed now and later." - Marcus Aurelius, 178AD
metalalloy wrote: Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?
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Re: Today Rohr Earned His Stripe As A Coach

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YemiBrazil wrote:
mate wrote:I'll repeat, Croatia anticipated how Nigeria played today against Iceland. Nigeria correctly didn't take the bait. I believe we would have scored even more had Nigeria come out pressing. Modric, Rakitic, Perisic, and Co can play the counter much better than Iceland...and in Strinic and Vrsaljko have speedy outside backs, being even more effective in our compact defense in depth.

You adapt. Then it comes down to the quality of the players. Today Nigeria used their quality to run over Iceland.

I'm no expert on Nigeria. But from what I've seen this WC so far, I think your coach generally got it correct. As he will against Argentina, which has a vulnerable defense and midfield. So it calls for more aggression again.
He got it correct because your team won. Sorry, he messed it up for us - good for you :lol: :lol: :lol:
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Like I said, we threw that Croatia match away!
"it is better to be excited now and disappointed later, than it is to be disappointed now and later." - Marcus Aurelius, 178AD
metalalloy wrote: Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?
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Re: Today Rohr Earned His Stripe As A Coach

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YemiBrazil wrote:
metalalloy wrote:Thanks for sharing Lolly. You are wasting your time "debating" with a clueless hanky seller. You might as well past the article to the wall and talk to it, you will get the same level of depth from the wall that Yemibrah will provide :D
Mentallo Albrighton :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
"it is better to be excited now and disappointed later, than it is to be disappointed now and later." - Marcus Aurelius, 178AD
metalalloy wrote: Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?
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Re: Today Rohr Earned His Stripe As A Coach

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YemiBrazil wrote:... to the guys talking about Croatia vs Argentina - personnel & speed aside, what made you think Argentina's formation mirror's Nigeria's 3-5-2 or is it because you saw 3 at the back?? :lol: :lol: :lol:
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
"it is better to be excited now and disappointed later, than it is to be disappointed now and later." - Marcus Aurelius, 178AD
metalalloy wrote: Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?

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