MY FINAL ANALYSIS OF OUR 2018 WORLD CUP

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Re: MY FINAL ANALYSIS OF OUR 2018 WORLD CUP

Post by The YeyeMan »

Scipio Africanus wrote:I kpom Solowe's points, especially the one about docility and submissiveness shown by Nigerians on the world stage.

I was asking myself if I was watching a horror zombie flick as a bloody faced Mascherano was seen running all over the pitch, at one point even chasing after the ref for a good minute! :shock: :shock:

The angel* ref should have sent Mascherano off to get cleaned up! That was our chance to surround the ref, and force him to do his f**ing job and send Mascherano off to get cleaned up. Na dat time we for don balance for ground, rest small, drink wata, stretch legs, discuss new plans etc and most importantly disrupt the Argentine momentum. If dem call us naive now, we go begin vex. :curse:
My guy, don't get me started on that nonsense. Thinking about it gets me vexed even now.
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Re: MY FINAL ANALYSIS OF OUR 2018 WORLD CUP

Post by maceo4 »

The YeyeMan wrote:
Scipio Africanus wrote:I kpom Solowe's points, especially the one about docility and submissiveness shown by Nigerians on the world stage.

I was asking myself if I was watching a horror zombie flick as a bloody faced Mascherano was seen running all over the pitch, at one point even chasing after the ref for a good minute! :shock: :shock:

The angel* ref should have sent Mascherano off to get cleaned up! That was our chance to surround the ref, and force him to do his f**ing job and send Mascherano off to get cleaned up. Na dat time we for don balance for ground, rest small, drink wata, stretch legs, discuss new plans etc and most importantly disrupt the Argentine momentum. If dem call us naive now, we go begin vex. :curse:
My guy, don't get me started on that nonsense. Thinking about it gets me vexed even now.
I don't buy the whole submissiveness talk, because how come we don't show this at the youth level, shouldn't our kids be the biggest ones affected by this, but our U-17, U-20 teams always seem to be full of flair, full of inventiveness, fearless, take the bull by the horn and take it to opponents. I think this particular team lacked self believe because their manager was planning for the next world cup and didn't seem to believe in his current team.
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Re: MY FINAL ANALYSIS OF OUR 2018 WORLD CUP

Post by JACKAL »

maceo4 wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:
Scipio Africanus wrote:I kpom Solowe's points, especially the one about docility and submissiveness shown by Nigerians on the world stage.

I was asking myself if I was watching a horror zombie flick as a bloody faced Mascherano was seen running all over the pitch, at one point even chasing after the ref for a good minute! :shock: :shock:

The angel* ref should have sent Mascherano off to get cleaned up! That was our chance to surround the ref, and force him to do his f**ing job and send Mascherano off to get cleaned up. Na dat time we for don balance for ground, rest small, drink wata, stretch legs, discuss new plans etc and most importantly disrupt the Argentine momentum. If dem call us naive now, we go begin vex. :curse:
My guy, don't get me started on that nonsense. Thinking about it gets me vexed even now.
I don't buy the whole submissiveness talk, because how come we don't show this at the youth level, shouldn't our kids be the biggest ones affected by this, but our U-17, U-20 teams always seem to be full of flair, full of inventiveness, fearless, take the bull by the horn and take it to opponents. I think this particular team lacked self believe because their manager was planning for the next world cup and didn't seem to believe in his current team.
We are all fully aware of the secrets of our so called "youth teams".

Your Manager is not planning on winning the next World cup, that's Pinnicks dream. Rohr already told Nigerians his only dream is to win the cup of nations. He doesn't believe Nigeria can win the world cup !
The man is not good enough and too old for the job. He will be like 69 at the next WC !! We need a Younger coach in his 40's who is ambitions, experienced and really good with new ideas and understands the aspirations of Nigerians.

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Re: MY FINAL ANALYSIS OF OUR 2018 WORLD CUP

Post by marko »

Everything you mentioned is quite true, i like the part of appointing foreign coaches for youth teams, they need it most to teach them the fundamentals of football, about the rest, well that is where massive investment is needed in the sporting sector, not just football, we are talking of billions every year, when you look at Nigeria as a country, can you point to one shining example where the government invested and we can see the results today? From infrastructure, health, security, employment, education, raw resources, sports, Agriculture, everything is a shambles, so why should Nigeria football not be affected by the rot in society? Look at Nigeria Athletes, they have to beg for funds to train, go to every sporting event where they can attract a fee, get burnt out at the major events like olympics, world championships

So can you see my point, Nigeria throws money at its football in some fire brigade approach every 4 yeats thinking all they have to do is hire a foreign coach and bingo! Sorry will never work, other top footballing nations have started planning for the next world cup but give it another 2-3 years, then the usual fire brigade approach begins

Sorry Nigeria just like any other 3rd world country are wasting their time at this level, tell me one dis-organised country that has won the world cup? They are just there to make up the mumbers and act as a nuisance to other serious countries
Last edited by marko on Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MY FINAL ANALYSIS OF OUR 2018 WORLD CUP

Post by maceo4 »

JACKAL wrote:
maceo4 wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:
Scipio Africanus wrote:I kpom Solowe's points, especially the one about docility and submissiveness shown by Nigerians on the world stage.

I was asking myself if I was watching a horror zombie flick as a bloody faced Mascherano was seen running all over the pitch, at one point even chasing after the ref for a good minute! :shock: :shock:

The angel* ref should have sent Mascherano off to get cleaned up! That was our chance to surround the ref, and force him to do his f**ing job and send Mascherano off to get cleaned up. Na dat time we for don balance for ground, rest small, drink wata, stretch legs, discuss new plans etc and most importantly disrupt the Argentine momentum. If dem call us naive now, we go begin vex. :curse:
My guy, don't get me started on that nonsense. Thinking about it gets me vexed even now.
I don't buy the whole submissiveness talk, because how come we don't show this at the youth level, shouldn't our kids be the biggest ones affected by this, but our U-17, U-20 teams always seem to be full of flair, full of inventiveness, fearless, take the bull by the horn and take it to opponents. I think this particular team lacked self believe because their manager was planning for the next world cup and didn't seem to believe in his current team.
We are all fully aware of the secrets of our so called "youth teams".

Your Manager is not planning on winning the next World cup, that's Pinnicks dream. Rohr already told Nigerians his only dream is to win the cup of nations. He doesn't believe Nigeria can win the world cup !
The man is not good enough and too old for the job. He will be like 69 at the next WC !! We need a Younger coach in his 40's who is ambitions, experienced and really good with new ideas and understands the aspirations of Nigerians.

Kelechi and Success' set were smaller than their opponents and went through MRI testing, yet still played the Naija way with flair and self belief, I don't know what has since happened to them once they moved to the senior game. Kele looked super confident (even over-confident at times) at first at Man City and had success, before Pep killed all that. I just don't think its submissiveness off the field that has anything to do with how our boys play on the field, its something else that affects them once they get to the senior level.
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Re: MY FINAL ANALYSIS OF OUR 2018 WORLD CUP

Post by Heliopolis »

Great analysis - much of the issues you laid out applies across Africa.

BTW, it baffles me that some here rue lost opportunities in individual games rather than stepping back and looking at the big picture. Africa stinks at the WC because our footy is rubbish, not because of bad tactics by a manager, or a wrong call by a referee.
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Re: MY FINAL ANALYSIS OF OUR 2018 WORLD CUP

Post by Kneedeep »

I don't agree with everything, but I appreciate the time and thought you put into this. And also, taking the effort to find evidence to back up your "feelings". It took me back to the old days of CE when you could borrow arguments from CE and use them to stun even professionals when backed into a corner :lol: .

:clap: :clap: :clap:

An example of my disagreement is that young Nigerian players will back-stab their agent, coach, or cousin who fed and took them to practice every day without worrying about any respect.
Last edited by Kneedeep on Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MY FINAL ANALYSIS OF OUR 2018 WORLD CUP

Post by Kneedeep »

maceo4 wrote:
JACKAL wrote:
maceo4 wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:
Scipio Africanus wrote:I kpom Solowe's points, especially the one about docility and submissiveness shown by Nigerians on the world stage.

I was asking myself if I was watching a horror zombie flick as a bloody faced Mascherano was seen running all over the pitch, at one point even chasing after the ref for a good minute! :shock: :shock:

The angel* ref should have sent Mascherano off to get cleaned up! That was our chance to surround the ref, and force him to do his f**ing job and send Mascherano off to get cleaned up. Na dat time we for don balance for ground, rest small, drink wata, stretch legs, discuss new plans etc and most importantly disrupt the Argentine momentum. If dem call us naive now, we go begin vex. :curse:
My guy, don't get me started on that nonsense. Thinking about it gets me vexed even now.
I don't buy the whole submissiveness talk, because how come we don't show this at the youth level, shouldn't our kids be the biggest ones affected by this, but our U-17, U-20 teams always seem to be full of flair, full of inventiveness, fearless, take the bull by the horn and take it to opponents. I think this particular team lacked self believe because their manager was planning for the next world cup and didn't seem to believe in his current team.
We are all fully aware of the secrets of our so called "youth teams".

Your Manager is not planning on winning the next World cup, that's Pinnicks dream. Rohr already told Nigerians his only dream is to win the cup of nations. He doesn't believe Nigeria can win the world cup !
The man is not good enough and too old for the job. He will be like 69 at the next WC !! We need a Younger coach in his 40's who is ambitions, experienced and really good with new ideas and understands the aspirations of Nigerians.

Kelechi and Success' set were smaller than their opponents and went through MRI testing, yet still played the Naija way with flair and self belief, I don't know what has since happened to them once they moved to the senior game. Kele looked super confident (even over-confident at times) at first at Man City and had success, before Pep killed all that. I just don't think its submissiveness off the field that has anything to do with how our boys play on the field, its something else that affects them once they get to the senior level.
Brazilians kept Neymar in Brazil under 21, Jaysusu Gabriel till 20. Nigerians just send out children anihau. It isn't that hard to mess up the mind of a teenager especially if the teen is not that exposed or has been raised to believe anything any ol' oyibo says.
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Re: MY FINAL ANALYSIS OF OUR 2018 WORLD CUP

Post by marko »

Can anyone answer if any dis-organised country has ever won the world cup?
So angry Nigeria got kicked out of the world cup once again, i nearly told my wife that i caught my girlfriend with another man today!

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Re: MY FINAL ANALYSIS OF OUR 2018 WORLD CUP

Post by kali »

There is defending and there is tactical defending. France tactically defended against Argentina and scored four goals against them. Why? Just look at how their midfield played. France had Pogba, Kante and Matuidi. Look at how they lined up the attack. Giroud was the lone forward, Griezemann was a false 9 and Mbappe was the killer on the counter. Pogba passed from deep and Matuidi supported Griezemann on the left.

Now contrast France's tactics with Nigeria's. Nigeria defended deep but its attack was disjointed. We put Musa out left, Iheanacho out right and played a three man central midfield that failed to link up with the forwards. The only link man was Moses and he did a poor job of it such that what Nigeria often ended up playing was a 3-4-3.

Then when he found that Musa was being caged by the Argentine defence, he brought on Ighalo for Iheanacho instead of Iwobi. Now Ighalo made use of space but he had no speed or guile to make any impact. The correct substitution should have been Iwobi to draw the defence more centrally to give Musa width to run on one side and Moses on the other.

The World Cup showed that Rohr may be a great defensive coach but his attacking tactics are piss poor.

The good news is that Nigeria is at least two or three good players away from a top world class team. After this World Cup I would be looking for a good left back and a good number 9. I would play this as the core of my team:

---- Moses ------- Ekong ----------- Balogun -------- LB -----

----------------- Ndidi ----- Etebo ------------------------------

----- Simon ------------ Iwobi -------------- Musa -------------

-------------------- No 9 ----------------------------------------
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Re: MY FINAL ANALYSIS OF OUR 2018 WORLD CUP

Post by maceo4 »

kali wrote:The good news is that Nigeria is at least two or three good players away from a top world class team
That's just your fantasy...we are many players away from being a top world class team.
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Re: MY FINAL ANALYSIS OF OUR 2018 WORLD CUP

Post by JACKAL »

maceo4 wrote:
kali wrote:The good news is that Nigeria is at least two or three good players away from a top world class team
That's just your fantasy...we are many players away from being a top world class team.
Kali..I am going to have to agree with Mace04 here... Those center backs are not good enough...Ekong cant even pass the ball out of the back and he is too short for the position in todays game. Balogun is just a shade better.... Moses and Musa.. They are not starters in my book. Right now Only Ndidi is a sure thing, The rest have a lot of work to do and ways to go.
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Re: MY FINAL ANALYSIS OF OUR 2018 WORLD CUP

Post by JACKAL »

kali wrote:There is defending and there is tactical defending. France tactically defended against Argentina and scored four goals against them. Why? Just look at how their midfield played. France had Pogba, Kante and Matuidi. Look at how they lined up the attack. Giroud was the lone forward, Griezemann was a false 9 and Mbappe was the killer on the counter. Pogba passed from deep and Matuidi supported Griezemann on the left.

Now contrast France's tactics with Nigeria's. Nigeria defended deep but its attack was disjointed. We put Musa out left, Iheanacho out right and played a three man central midfield that failed to link up with the forwards. The only link man was Moses and he did a poor job of it such that what Nigeria often ended up playing was a 3-4-3.

Then when he found that Musa was being caged by the Argentine defence, he brought on Ighalo for Iheanacho instead of Iwobi. Now Ighalo made use of space but he had no speed or guile to make any impact. The correct substitution should have been Iwobi to draw the defence more centrally to give Musa width to run on one side and Moses on the other.

The World Cup showed that Rohr may be a great defensive coach but his attacking tactics are piss poor.

The good news is that Nigeria is at least two or three good players away from a top world class team. After this World Cup I would be looking for a good left back and a good number 9. I would play this as the core of my team:

---- Moses ------- Ekong ----------- Balogun -------- LB -----

----------------- Ndidi ----- Etebo ------------------------------

----- Simon ------------ Iwobi -------------- Musa -------------

-------------------- No 9 ----------------------------------------

I just dont see Rohr as a good coach, defensive or otherwise... We conceded 2 penalties in 3 games, 5 goals in 3 games... where's this vaunted defence... ?? Ekong is just not a top level player..i like his enthusiasm but that is not enough...
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Re: MY FINAL ANALYSIS OF OUR 2018 WORLD CUP

Post by JACKAL »

Heliopolis wrote:Great analysis - much of the issues you laid out applies across Africa.

BTW, it baffles me that some here rue lost opportunities in individual games rather than stepping back and looking at the big picture. Africa stinks at the WC because our footy is rubbish, not because of bad tactics by a manager, or a wrong call by a referee.

Thanks Helopolis ! I assume you are Egyptian. What they hell happened to your team ?? I was sure you guys were going to do better than us !! :mrgreen:

You are right about African Football. We have to make Holistic changes to the game in Africa rather than only talking about the small stuff right now.
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Re: MY FINAL ANALYSIS OF OUR 2018 WORLD CUP

Post by JACKAL »

Heliopolis wrote:Great analysis - much of the issues you laid out applies across Africa.

BTW, it baffles me that some here rue lost opportunities in individual games rather than stepping back and looking at the big picture. Africa stinks at the WC because our footy is rubbish, not because of bad tactics by a manager, or a wrong call by a referee.

Thanks Helopolis ! I assume you are Egyptian. What they hell happened to your team ?? I was sure you guys were going to do better than us !! :mrgreen:

You are right about African Football. We have to make Holistic changes to the game in Africa rather than only talking about the small stuff right now.
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Re: MY FINAL ANALYSIS OF OUR 2018 WORLD CUP

Post by kali »

JACKAL wrote:
kali wrote:There is defending and there is tactical defending. France tactically defended against Argentina and scored four goals against them. Why? Just look at how their midfield played. France had Pogba, Kante and Matuidi. Look at how they lined up the attack. Giroud was the lone forward, Griezemann was a false 9 and Mbappe was the killer on the counter. Pogba passed from deep and Matuidi supported Griezemann on the left.

Now contrast France's tactics with Nigeria's. Nigeria defended deep but its attack was disjointed. We put Musa out left, Iheanacho out right and played a three man central midfield that failed to link up with the forwards. The only link man was Moses and he did a poor job of it such that what Nigeria often ended up playing was a 3-4-3.

Then when he found that Musa was being caged by the Argentine defence, he brought on Ighalo for Iheanacho instead of Iwobi. Now Ighalo made use of space but he had no speed or guile to make any impact. The correct substitution should have been Iwobi to draw the defence more centrally to give Musa width to run on one side and Moses on the other.

The World Cup showed that Rohr may be a great defensive coach but his attacking tactics are piss poor.

The good news is that Nigeria is at least two or three good players away from a top world class team. After this World Cup I would be looking for a good left back and a good number 9. I would play this as the core of my team:

---- Moses ------- Ekong ----------- Balogun -------- LB -----

----------------- Ndidi ----- Etebo ------------------------------

----- Simon ------------ Iwobi -------------- Musa -------------

-------------------- No 9 ----------------------------------------

I just dont see Rohr as a good coach, defensive or otherwise... We conceded 2 penalties in 3 games, 5 goals in 3 games... where's this vaunted defence... ?? Ekong is just not a top level player..i like his enthusiasm but that is not enough...
I think the defence was ok. France with Varane (Real Madrid) and Umtiti (Barcelona) made their fair share of mistakes. The problem was the midfield transition which Rohr clearly did not understand. I think if we work on that and get a decent 9 and LB then we will be good. Lets see how the team plays at the next ANC.
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Re: MY FINAL ANALYSIS OF OUR 2018 WORLD CUP

Post by Heliopolis »

JACKAL wrote:
Heliopolis wrote:Great analysis - much of the issues you laid out applies across Africa.

BTW, it baffles me that some here rue lost opportunities in individual games rather than stepping back and looking at the big picture. Africa stinks at the WC because our footy is rubbish, not because of bad tactics by a manager, or a wrong call by a referee.

Thanks Helopolis ! I assume you are Egyptian. What they hell happened to your team ?? I was sure you guys were going to do better than us !! :mrgreen:

You are right about African Football. We have to make Holistic changes to the game in Africa rather than only talking about the small stuff right now.
I've written a lot on this forum over the last month about how I think African footy can improve. Some here agree that we have systemic problems that have not been resolved while other Luddites have their heads dug in the sand and believe bad coaching and refereeing are to blame; after all, only African teams are the victims of refereeing errors :roll:
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Re: MY FINAL ANALYSIS OF OUR 2018 WORLD CUP

Post by Dammy »

JACKAL wrote:
maceo4 wrote:
kali wrote:The good news is that Nigeria is at least two or three good players away from a top world class team
That's just your fantasy...we are many players away from being a top world class team.
Kali..I am going to have to agree with Mace04 here... Those center backs are not good enough...Ekong cant even pass the ball out of the back and he is too short for the position in todays game. Balogun is just a shade better.... Moses and Musa.. They are not starters in my book. Right now Only Ndidi is a sure thing, The rest have a lot of work to do and ways to go.
I am a big fan of Ekong but if after the WC, he can't secure a move to a top league, we have to move on from him and give Awaziem a chance.
I am happy
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Re: MY FINAL ANALYSIS OF OUR 2018 WORLD CUP

Post by JACKAL »

Heliopolis wrote:
JACKAL wrote:
Heliopolis wrote:Great analysis - much of the issues you laid out applies across Africa.

BTW, it baffles me that some here rue lost opportunities in individual games rather than stepping back and looking at the big picture. Africa stinks at the WC because our footy is rubbish, not because of bad tactics by a manager, or a wrong call by a referee.

Thanks Helopolis ! I assume you are Egyptian. What they hell happened to your team ?? I was sure you guys were going to do better than us !! :mrgreen:

You are right about African Football. We have to make Holistic changes to the game in Africa rather than only talking about the small stuff right now.
I've written a lot on this forum over the last month about how I think African footy can improve. Some here agree that we have systemic problems that have not been resolved while other Luddites have their heads dug in the sand and believe bad coaching and refereeing are to blame; after all, only African teams are the victims of refereeing errors :roll:
We need to understand that dealing with a ref is an art form … Big teams, big coaches are always working the ref into making favorable decisions for them. Even before the game during press conferences they call out the ref in way to influence him and during the game you see Theatrical responses on the sidelines by the coaching crew, the substitutes and they players on the field, they crowd the ref to get him to make a call for them.. its all deliberately orchestrated and coordinated by the big the smart teams and their managers ...its all done to influence the ref....Africans don't understand its a big theatre production all designed to influence the refs decisions to go their way. We instead don't complain, or we do it meekly...we just assume the ref will always do his job. Even with VAR, we are still getting shafted because we don't understand that its still a human decision at the end of the day.
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Re: MY FINAL ANALYSIS OF OUR 2018 WORLD CUP

Post by TheHitman47 »

I agree with Solowe on a lot of this. There are only a few things I disagree with.

As for Heliopolis. African football needs to improve but like Solowe said, all of that good play doesn't mean anything if you don't know the others areas of gamesmanship. Look at Morocco, apart from finishing they played the game the right way, but still came out in the bottom with 1 point because they didn't know how to influence referees. You can't look at the way the Moroccans played and say that they are a rubbish team. A few minor changes and better concepts in goalscoring and they are winning their group.
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Re: MY FINAL ANALYSIS OF OUR 2018 WORLD CUP

Post by JACKAL »

Dammy wrote:
JACKAL wrote:
maceo4 wrote:
kali wrote:The good news is that Nigeria is at least two or three good players away from a top world class team
That's just your fantasy...we are many players away from being a top world class team.
Kali..I am going to have to agree with Mace04 here... Those center backs are not good enough...Ekong cant even pass the ball out of the back and he is too short for the position in todays game. Balogun is just a shade better.... Moses and Musa.. They are not starters in my book. Right now Only Ndidi is a sure thing, The rest have a lot of work to do and ways to go.
I am a big fan of Ekong but if after the WC, he can't secure a move to a top league, we have to move on from him and give Awaziem a chance.

Ekong has already found his level in Turkey. He is not comfortable with the ball at his feet, so he doesn't move the ball out of the back, his passes out of the back are just not good, even dangerous, and he doest join the offence to try and head the ball on set pieces because his not tall enough...so he settles for tough guy football by tacking guys in the back and just hoofing it out of the back. He may be the right back we are looking for...

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