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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:04 pm 
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txj wrote:


The statement does not singly you out, however much you might want it to! It is simply recognizing the group to which you are an integral part- defenders of the NFF and MRI...

The highlighted paragraph is ample proof that you are the leading advocate in this group. Your statement is like commending a serial wife abuser for getting his wife quickly to an emergency room after beating her up!

The best progress the NFF can make is to commit to using only players who are born within the age group for the competition, and thus to commit to proper verification.


Txj,

I did not state that it singled me out. The fact is that it included me in the group that you claimed made the statement. I never made such a statement and thus cannot be accurately included in such a group. That is the bottomline.

A better analogy for commending the NFF is actually to commend a national drug administration for approving a drug that will cure a large percentage of people who fall sick without first waiting to approve a drug that will cure 100% of them if such drug does not currently exist.

_________________
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics


Last edited by Enugu II on Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:08 pm 
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Quote:
The best progress the NFF can make is to commit to using only players who are born within the age group for the competition, and thus to commit to proper verification.


I have just been reading some of what you are writing, and I want to ask you a question. Please what is proper verification, in your book. In a country where a huge percentage of births , still take place in homes. In the North, and many parts of the South South, this is the reality believe it or not.
This is the same Nigeria,where forged documents, have been known to fool even Western embassies.
If the first stage of documentation by the NFF, is birth certificate, passport etc, and the second process of disqualifying overaged players is getting all of the players to uniformly undergo MRI tests, then what is your issue?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:09 pm 
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pajimoh wrote:
Teacher don't teach me nonsense. You should read the article you posted. MRI is not 100 proof of age but that is what FIFA is demanding. Even if you swear by your own life that your son is u17 but the MRI says otherwise, FIFA will not take your word for it.

The argument here is a simple one. Even if they give you the job to verify the age of the players and you're satisfied they are u17, complete the process by doing the MRI immediately before camping them. We know of an American boy with all valid doc that failed the scan. The report you posted said so. So why not do the scan immediately after whatever is acceptable to you as the selection process?



Why for instance are none of the American or European teams worrying about a genuine U-17 failing the test?

They simply select the truly U-17 players and send them to play. If the MRI disqualifies them, so be it...

The NFF needs to FIRST commit to using truly U-17 players not find all possible ways to cheat...

_________________
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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:15 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
txj wrote:


The statement does not singly you out, however much you might want it to! It is simply recognizing the group to which you are an integral part- defenders of the NFF and MRI...

The highlighted paragraph is ample proof that you are the leading advocate in this group. Your statement is like commending a serial wife abuser for getting his wife quickly to an emergency room after beating her up!

The best progress the NFF can make is to commit to using only players who are born within the age group for the competition, and thus to commit to proper verification.


Txj,

I did not state that it singled me out. The fact is that it included me in the group that you claimed made the statement. I never made such a statement and thus cannot be accurately included in such a group. That is the bottomline.

A better analogy for commending the NFF is actually to commend a national drug administration for approving a drug that will cure a large percentage of people who fall sick without first waiting to approve a drug that will cure 100% of them if such drug does not currently exist.


Your analogy conveniently ignores the part where the national agency is engaged in fraud. So the correct analogy would be that the national drug administration approved a drug that is supposed to cure 100% of the population, ignoring the fact that it only cures 40% and then correcting itself to approve an alternative that achieves 100%.

_________________
Image
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:16 pm 
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txj wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Teacher don't teach me nonsense. You should read the article you posted. MRI is not 100 proof of age but that is what FIFA is demanding. Even if you swear by your own life that your son is u17 but the MRI says otherwise, FIFA will not take your word for it.

The argument here is a simple one. Even if they give you the job to verify the age of the players and you're satisfied they are u17, complete the process by doing the MRI immediately before camping them. We know of an American boy with all valid doc that failed the scan. The report you posted said so. So why not do the scan immediately after whatever is acceptable to you as the selection process?



Why for instance are none of the American or European teams worrying about a genuine U-17 failing the test?

They simply select the truly U-17 players and send them to play. If the MRI disqualifies them, so be it...

The NFF needs to FIRST commit to using truly U-17 players not find all possible ways to cheat...



The highlighted is the issue you are refusing to grapple with. There is no process currently existing in Nigeria to be sure that you have players who are truly U-17. You touted Cellular's claim and Cellular's subsequent statement clearly shows that the consultants collaborate several documents and in such a case cannot state FOR SURE that a player is of a certain age. We showed you also research reports indicating that many children are born today outside the hospital. In all of this, there is no certainty to find a true age of all players in Nigeria.That is the issue.

BTW, that is a gulf of a difference between Nigeria and nations from Europe and the USA that you have cited above. Nigeria that you have derided as being backward in many other areas but suddenly in this area they have magically become as efficient in documentation as Western Europe?

_________________
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics


Last edited by Enugu II on Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:17 pm 
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okidoki wrote:
Quote:
The best progress the NFF can make is to commit to using only players who are born within the age group for the competition, and thus to commit to proper verification.


I have just been reading some of what you are writing, and I want to ask you a question. Please what is proper verification, in your book. In a country where a huge percentage of births , still take place in homes. In the North, and many parts of the South South, this is the reality believe it or not.
This is the same Nigeria,where forged documents, have been known to fool even Western embassies.
If the first stage of documentation by the NFF, is birth certificate, passport etc, and the second process of disqualifying overaged players is getting all of the players to uniformly undergo MRI tests, then what is your issue?


In order for us to have a genuine debate, u have to first commit to the truth.

We are in 2018, and are thus speaking of players born in 2000.

Your assertion above is not true and based on a lie which u are perpetuating..

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:10 pm 
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txj wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Teacher don't teach me nonsense. You should read the article you posted. MRI is not 100 proof of age but that is what FIFA is demanding. Even if you swear by your own life that your son is u17 but the MRI says otherwise, FIFA will not take your word for it.

The argument here is a simple one. Even if they give you the job to verify the age of the players and you're satisfied they are u17, complete the process by doing the MRI immediately before camping them. We know of an American boy with all valid doc that failed the scan. The report you posted said so. So why not do the scan immediately after whatever is acceptable to you as the selection process?



Why for instance are none of the American or European teams worrying about a genuine U-17 failing the test?

They simply select the truly U-17 players and send them to play. If the MRI disqualifies them, so be it...

The NFF needs to FIRST commit to using truly U-17 players not find all possible ways to cheat...


How do you know how many fails the MRI if they even do MRI for Europeans and Americans at all? The MRI is predominantly for 3rd world countries where, yes we cheat, but we lack adequate records.

We've seen people who claim they are 110 years old but don't even know which year they were born but they associate it to something their parents claims happened that year etc.

The article you posted last also suggest the MRI does not take into account ethnicity, regional and social variables and diet.

We all want to eradicate age cheats, that one is not even open for debate, how we go about it in a society like Nigeria is the issue. You trivialise the simplicity of and that is why I have an issue with you. In Africa we have rules for almost everything you can think of but we easily set those rules aside to do the wrong things.

That is why the MRI is another welcome layer. The article you posted suggest the possibility of an 18 to 20 passing the MRI and the same possibility exists for u16 year olds failing the MRI.

That is why I suggest testing immediately because that is where Nigeria is right now. Nigeria is not at a juncture where you accept the verification and send the boys to camp only to do the MRI at a later stage. It's about doing what is right for now and not how it works in Europe or America. You can't bring American or European system into Nigeria without taking into account the quality and integrity of participants.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:38 pm 
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There is just so much rumors and inaccuracies surrounding this issue that I have decided to post FIFA's own media release of 2009 so that we can all take a look instead of imagining stuff.

Quote:
Caught by the wrists
https://www.fifa.com/development/news/y=2009/m=10/news=caught-the-wrists-1121679.html
(FIFA World) 22 Oct 2009
Generic - hand holds ball
© Foto-net
1
As the FIFA U-17 World Cup Nigeria 2009 approaches, a question familiar to everyone involved in youth competitions is inevitably raising its head once again: are all the players on the competing teams really 17 or under?

FIFA's rules, designed to ensure fair play and a level playing field for all, are quite clear on this matter, with the regulations for this year's U-17 competition stating that each member association has a responsibility to "ensure that all players of its representative team were born on or after 1 January 1992."

In the past, overage players have been wrongly entered into various youth competitions, often benefitting from an unfair advantage due to their greater physical maturity compared to players of the proper age. Until now, the main way of checking a player's age was to look at the date of birth stated in his or her passport - but this does not always solve the issue.

"We know that it is not generally bad intention or purpose if players are biologically above 17 years," stresses Dr Yacine Zerguini, member of the FIFA and CAF Medical Committees. "In some countries, birth certificates are inaccurate or even not available, without that necessarily being the fault of the player or the association."

To tackle this potential problem, FIFA has decided to conduct magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) of the wrist at the FIFA U-17 World Cup, with randomly selected players being tested in Nigeria under the supervision of FIFA's medical experts.

The research behind the decision actually began in 2003 when, in response to numerous requests by member associations, FIFA's Medical Assessment and Research Centre (F-MARC) started to investigate the use of biological markers for age determination.

X-ray images of the growth plate of the left wrist have been used in court and paediatrics to determine age for decades. The growth plates of the bones of the human skeleton are open during growth, and close at different times with increasing age and maturity. However, for ethical reasons, the exposure to radiation prohibits the use of X-ray in the age screening of football players.

Prof. Jiri Dvorak, the chairman of F-MARC who also works in a large orthopaedic hospital, came up with the idea of using MRI instead, since MRI does not expose players to any radiation and also provides detailed images and better contrast between different body tissues than any other imaging systems in radiology. Consequently, F-MARC developed a new method that uses MRI for age determination.

In close collaboration with the AFC (Dr Gurchuran Singh), CAF (Dr Yacine Zerguini) and CONMEBOL (Dr Raul Madero), F-MARC performed MRI scans of the wrist in more than 500 football players of different ethnical origin (Switzerland, Malaysia, Algeria, Argentina, Senegal), all aged between 14 and 19 years and with confirmed birth certificates, and developed a six-point grading system for the fusion of the growth plate . It was established that in a normal population, complete fusion is very unlikely to occur prior to 17 years of age. In fact, the probability is less than 1%. In other words, if the MRI shows complete fusion of a player´s wrist, this player is older than 17 years with a certainty of more than 99%.

F-MARC then performed MRI scans of the wrist on players selected randomly at the FIFA U-17 World Cups 2003, 2005 and 2007. The results were striking, with the players' scans showing a far higher rate of fusion (up to 35%) than those found in the reference populations . Since the establishment of the new technique, more then 1,500 MRIs have been performed, adding further robustness to the accuracy of the testing. Similar studies have also now been initiated for women and U-17 female players.

"MRI of the wrist is a simple, reliable, valid and non-invasive method of age determination in young male football players," says Prof. Dvorak. "We can identify overage players at U-17 competitions at no risk to the individual. This is of considerable help both to member associations and FIFA."

The Executive Committee of the Asian Football Confederation has already demonstrated its interest in the results of the F-MARC study, ordering that all players registered for the qualifying and final rounds of the AFC U-16 Championship who did not participate in the preceding AFC Festival of Football at U-13 and U-14 level must undergo MRI of the wrist for analysis by independent FIFA or AFC experts in order to guarantee their age eligibility. So far, the approach has proven highly successful in reducing the number of incidents involving potentially overage players, with the confederation identifying only one such case in 2008.

When it comes to FIFA's own competitions, including the upcoming FIFA U-17 World Cup, world football's governing body is encouraging and supporting participating member associations to conduct their own MRI tests in the build-up to the tournament in order to ensure that players are compliant with the age limit.

While such tests by the individual member associations are not yet mandatory, the advantages of carrying them out are self-apparent,
with responsible associations able to ensure that their players are indeed as young as their passports say they are, and that they do not end up unwittingly attending a major international tournament with a squad that could contain overage players.

*This article is from the October issue of FIFA World, the new FIFA magazine. You can read every issue of FIFA World online by clicking the link on the right. *

_________________
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:21 am 
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txj wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
txj wrote:


The statement does not singly you out, however much you might want it to! It is simply recognizing the group to which you are an integral part- defenders of the NFF and MRI...

The highlighted paragraph is ample proof that you are the leading advocate in this group. Your statement is like commending a serial wife abuser for getting his wife quickly to an emergency room after beating her up!

The best progress the NFF can make is to commit to using only players who are born within the age group for the competition, and thus to commit to proper verification.


Txj,

I did not state that it singled me out. The fact is that it included me in the group that you claimed made the statement. I never made such a statement and thus cannot be accurately included in such a group. That is the bottomline.

A better analogy for commending the NFF is actually to commend a national drug administration for approving a drug that will cure a large percentage of people who fall sick without first waiting to approve a drug that will cure 100% of them if such drug does not currently exist.


Your analogy conveniently ignores the part where the national agency is engaged in fraud. So the correct analogy would be that the national drug administration approved a drug that is supposed to cure 100% of the population, ignoring the fact that it only cures 40% and then correcting itself to approve an alternative that achieves 100%.


Don't you think, accusing me of lying. For something that won't give me money, or increase my life span is going a bit overboard.My sister, is a professor of Nursing(IUPUI). She runs one of the largest mission trips to Nigeria, that constantly has volunteers doctors, Opticians, Dentists and even nurses, and they now have a clinic/hospital of their own in the Nnewi/Amichi axis.
I was probably like you, till I started hearing stories of people going without treatment, giving birth at home, just because of high hospital bills.
Let me give you, an example how bad it is. At least in 2-3 cases. Pregnant women walked in, and told the clinician of not having, given birth to their more recent kids due to hospital bills. That means, they gave birth to their older kids in hospitals, but the latter ones not so.

So aside from unavailability of Healthcare, there is now an ever increasing problem of people resorting to iffy midwives because they have no funds for hospitals, or the public hospitals are not functioning properly. A problem that has so far gone unreported, at least I've not read about it anywhere. Therefor this Overage problem isn't ending anytime soon.
My brother,Nigeria is getting poorer by the day. Forget the nonsense, many post here of IGR. Truth is if you are making your money in Nigerian Naira, in Just three years you've become 50% poorer. Ask Dangote. That is what your head, hasn't been able to wrap itself around.
NFF is doing the best, they can.

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"Nigeria", Africas only true hope of bringing the World cup home to motherland.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:34 am 
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okidoki wrote:
txj wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
txj wrote:


The statement does not singly you out, however much you might want it to! It is simply recognizing the group to which you are an integral part- defenders of the NFF and MRI...

The highlighted paragraph is ample proof that you are the leading advocate in this group. Your statement is like commending a serial wife abuser for getting his wife quickly to an emergency room after beating her up!

The best progress the NFF can make is to commit to using only players who are born within the age group for the competition, and thus to commit to proper verification.


Txj,

I did not state that it singled me out. The fact is that it included me in the group that you claimed made the statement. I never made such a statement and thus cannot be accurately included in such a group. That is the bottomline.

A better analogy for commending the NFF is actually to commend a national drug administration for approving a drug that will cure a large percentage of people who fall sick without first waiting to approve a drug that will cure 100% of them if such drug does not currently exist.


Your analogy conveniently ignores the part where the national agency is engaged in fraud. So the correct analogy would be that the national drug administration approved a drug that is supposed to cure 100% of the population, ignoring the fact that it only cures 40% and then correcting itself to approve an alternative that achieves 100%.


Don't you think, accusing me of lying. For something that won't give me money, or increase my life span is going a bit overboard.My sister, is a professor of Nursing(IUPUI). She runs one of the largest mission trips to Nigeria, that constantly has volunteers doctors, Opticians, Dentists and even nurses, and they now have a clinic/hospital of their own in the Nnewi/Amichi axis.
I was probably like you, till I started hearing stories of people going without treatment, giving birth at home, just because of high hospital bills.
Let me give you, an example how bad it is. At least in 2-3 cases. Pregnant women walked in, and told the clinician of not having, given birth to their more recent kids due to hospital bills. That means, they gave birth to their older kids in hospitals, but the latter ones not so.

So aside from unavailability of Healthcare, there is now an ever increasing problem of people resorting to iffy midwives because they have no funds for hospitals, or the public hospitals are not functioning properly. A problem that has so far gone unreported, at least I've not read about it anywhere. Therefor this Overage problem isn't ending anytime soon.
My brother,Nigeria is getting poorer by the day. Forget the nonsense, many post here of IGR. Truth is if you are making your money in Nigerian Naira, in Just three years you've become 50% poorer. Ask Dangote. That is what your head, hasn't been able to wrap itself around.
NFF is doing the best, they can.


Okidoki,

What is troubling is the belief that because we can afford to make those payments that all Nigerians can afford to do the same. I have cousins in my village that cannot go for treatment in any hospital because of the costs. They are better off going to the dibia or if the ailment is too bad they will go to the church (Miri ngozi) to pray. Why? They cannot afford the hospital bills and yet we expect these same people to pay thousands of naira to give birth in a hospital when they can find someone in the village who can conveniently deliver the baby at home. For me it is the lack of understanding of problems that exist.

Our researchers identify these problems in their work but we can stay behind the computer and label the research as weak. Yet there are people experiencing these problems on an everyday basis.

_________________
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:16 am 
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Enugu II wrote:
okidoki wrote:
txj wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
txj wrote:


The statement does not singly you out, however much you might want it to! It is simply recognizing the group to which you are an integral part- defenders of the NFF and MRI...

The highlighted paragraph is ample proof that you are the leading advocate in this group. Your statement is like commending a serial wife abuser for getting his wife quickly to an emergency room after beating her up!

The best progress the NFF can make is to commit to using only players who are born within the age group for the competition, and thus to commit to proper verification.


Txj,

I did not state that it singled me out. The fact is that it included me in the group that you claimed made the statement. I never made such a statement and thus cannot be accurately included in such a group. That is the bottomline.

A better analogy for commending the NFF is actually to commend a national drug administration for approving a drug that will cure a large percentage of people who fall sick without first waiting to approve a drug that will cure 100% of them if such drug does not currently exist.


Your analogy conveniently ignores the part where the national agency is engaged in fraud. So the correct analogy would be that the national drug administration approved a drug that is supposed to cure 100% of the population, ignoring the fact that it only cures 40% and then correcting itself to approve an alternative that achieves 100%.


Don't you think, accusing me of lying. For something that won't give me money, or increase my life span is going a bit overboard.My sister, is a professor of Nursing(IUPUI). She runs one of the largest mission trips to Nigeria, that constantly has volunteers doctors, Opticians, Dentists and even nurses, and they now have a clinic/hospital of their own in the Nnewi/Amichi axis.
I was probably like you, till I started hearing stories of people going without treatment, giving birth at home, just because of high hospital bills.
Let me give you, an example how bad it is. At least in 2-3 cases. Pregnant women walked in, and told the clinician of not having, given birth to their more recent kids due to hospital bills. That means, they gave birth to their older kids in hospitals, but the latter ones not so.

So aside from unavailability of Healthcare, there is now an ever increasing problem of people resorting to iffy midwives because they have no funds for hospitals, or the public hospitals are not functioning properly. A problem that has so far gone unreported, at least I've not read about it anywhere. Therefor this Overage problem isn't ending anytime soon.
My brother,Nigeria is getting poorer by the day. Forget the nonsense, many post here of IGR. Truth is if you are making your money in Nigerian Naira, in Just three years you've become 50% poorer. Ask Dangote. That is what your head, hasn't been able to wrap itself around.
NFF is doing the best, they can.


Okidoki,

What is troubling is the belief that because we can afford to make those payments that all Nigerians can afford to do the same. I have cousins in my village that cannot go for treatment in any hospital because of the costs. They are better off going to the dibia or if the ailment is too bad they will go to the church (Miri ngozi) to pray. Why? They cannot afford the hospital bills and yet we expect these same people to pay thousands of naira to give birth in a hospital when they can find someone in the village who can conveniently deliver the baby at home. For me it is the lack of understanding of problems that exist.

Our researchers identify these problems in their work but we can stay behind the computer and label the research as weak. Yet there are people experiencing these problems on an everyday basis.


My brother, I don't lame Tjx. I was the same way, till I started going back and seeing the mission work. Folks come as far as Nanka, and further to get medication.
Some even here, were insulting Bill Gates, when he called for more investment in Healthcare. We are in trouble, as a country.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:37 am 
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Enugu II wrote:
okidoki wrote:
txj wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
txj wrote:


The statement does not singly you out, however much you might want it to! It is simply recognizing the group to which you are an integral part- defenders of the NFF and MRI...

The highlighted paragraph is ample proof that you are the leading advocate in this group. Your statement is like commending a serial wife abuser for getting his wife quickly to an emergency room after beating her up!

The best progress the NFF can make is to commit to using only players who are born within the age group for the competition, and thus to commit to proper verification.


Txj,

I did not state that it singled me out. The fact is that it included me in the group that you claimed made the statement. I never made such a statement and thus cannot be accurately included in such a group. That is the bottomline.

A better analogy for commending the NFF is actually to commend a national drug administration for approving a drug that will cure a large percentage of people who fall sick without first waiting to approve a drug that will cure 100% of them if such drug does not currently exist.


Your analogy conveniently ignores the part where the national agency is engaged in fraud. So the correct analogy would be that the national drug administration approved a drug that is supposed to cure 100% of the population, ignoring the fact that it only cures 40% and then correcting itself to approve an alternative that achieves 100%.


Don't you think, accusing me of lying. For something that won't give me money, or increase my life span is going a bit overboard.My sister, is a professor of Nursing(IUPUI). She runs one of the largest mission trips to Nigeria, that constantly has volunteers doctors, Opticians, Dentists and even nurses, and they now have a clinic/hospital of their own in the Nnewi/Amichi axis.
I was probably like you, till I started hearing stories of people going without treatment, giving birth at home, just because of high hospital bills.
Let me give you, an example how bad it is. At least in 2-3 cases. Pregnant women walked in, and told the clinician of not having, given birth to their more recent kids due to hospital bills. That means, they gave birth to their older kids in hospitals, but the latter ones not so.

So aside from unavailability of Healthcare, there is now an ever increasing problem of people resorting to iffy midwives because they have no funds for hospitals, or the public hospitals are not functioning properly. A problem that has so far gone unreported, at least I've not read about it anywhere. Therefor this Overage problem isn't ending anytime soon.
My brother,Nigeria is getting poorer by the day. Forget the nonsense, many post here of IGR. Truth is if you are making your money in Nigerian Naira, in Just three years you've become 50% poorer. Ask Dangote. That is what your head, hasn't been able to wrap itself around.
NFF is doing the best, they can.


Okidoki,

What is troubling is the belief that because we can afford to make those payments that all Nigerians can afford to do the same. I have cousins in my village that cannot go for treatment in any hospital because of the costs. They are better off going to the dibia or if the ailment is too bad they will go to the church (Miri ngozi) to pray. Why? They cannot afford the hospital bills and yet we expect these same people to pay thousands of naira to give birth in a hospital when they can find someone in the village who can conveniently deliver the baby at home. For me it is the lack of understanding of problems that exist.

Our researchers identify these problems in their work but we can stay behind the computer and label the research as weak. Yet there are people experiencing these problems on an everyday basis.
Tell me about it!
All this goes above and around the head of txj because knowledge cannot penetrate cement.
I'm surprised you are still trying to help him.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:08 am 
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Now they are saying it could be more than 15 Players that failed, and that the NFF is hiding the real number of failures, and that it could be the entire first team.

Funny that none of the papers are printing the names of the players. Cant be a coincidence that none of the publications is printing the names....even though Manu Garba announced the names. Someone must be threatening them with some sort of legal action, however, I don't see how there is any legal Jeopardy in reporting the news that says they failed the test , rather than saying they are truly not u-17.

I would suggest a different way of approaching this testing..... They should have the players pay for their own MRI screening at the approved center in Abuja. If you pass, you get reimbursed. If you fail, too bad. Those who know they are truly not U-17 will mostly not risk taking the test for the fear of losing their money. They will self eliminate themselves from the process.

Also the time lines should be moved back by 2 months so they can quickly eliminate the ones who are not going to qualify.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:30 pm 
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JACKAL wrote:
Now they are saying it could be more than 15 Players that failed, and that the NFF is hiding the real number of failures, and that it could be the entire first team.

Funny that none of the papers are printing the names of the players. Cant be a coincidence that none of the publications is printing the names....even though Manu Garba announced the names. Someone must be threatening them with some sort of legal action, however, I don't see how there is any legal Jeopardy in reporting the news that says they failed the test , rather than saying they are truly not u-17.

I would suggest a different way of approaching this testing..... They should have the players pay for their own MRI screening at the approved center in Abuja. If you pass, you get reimbursed. If you fail, too bad. Those who know they are truly not U-17 will mostly not risk taking the test for the fear of losing their money. They will self eliminate themselves from the process.

Also the time lines should be moved back by 2 months so they can quickly eliminate the ones who are not going to qualify.


Now you're seeing sense in my previous suggesting of testing before camping. I like your suggestion of paying for their test and reimbursement

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:27 pm 
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pajimoh wrote:
JACKAL wrote:
Now they are saying it could be more than 15 Players that failed, and that the NFF is hiding the real number of failures, and that it could be the entire first team.

Funny that none of the papers are printing the names of the players. Cant be a coincidence that none of the publications is printing the names....even though Manu Garba announced the names. Someone must be threatening them with some sort of legal action, however, I don't see how there is any legal Jeopardy in reporting the news that says they failed the test , rather than saying they are truly not u-17.

I would suggest a different way of approaching this testing..... They should have the players pay for their own MRI screening at the approved center in Abuja. If you pass, you get reimbursed. If you fail, too bad. Those who know they are truly not U-17 will mostly not risk taking the test for the fear of losing their money. They will self eliminate themselves from the process.

Also the time lines should be moved back by 2 months so they can quickly eliminate the ones who are not going to qualify.


Now you're seeing sense in my previous suggesting of testing before camping. I like your suggestion of paying for their test and reimbursement





I know there are people here who may be ready to make an argument that some genius player may fall through the cracks because he cant pay for a 50,000-100,000 Naira($140-$277) MRI Test .. Let me say this is highly unlikely !

All these players you see are all part of academies so they already have representation and of some sort of backing. If the Academy owner/parents/agents know this player is well over 17 years old..they will not fund this test. So self elimination will take place. The player wont even show up to camp. Some of the Agents will conduct their own private test to determine if the player would qualify or not and would not risk sending him if the result is in the negative

One way for players to avoid the high cost of MRI testing is to use X-rays as an initial first test. An X-ray may not be as accurate as MRI..but it will give you a close enough reading and its much, much cheaper. Like 1/2 the price of an MRI.



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:03 pm 
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First it used to be, 'where is the evidence'?
Then Adokiye and Fortune Chukwudi happened. Adokiye came with 'evidence'...

Then it was, about the timing of his evidence. The enablers of cheating screamed, why now? Why did he not do it earlier, or later?
What are his motives? He is disgruntled! He wanted to be NFF Chairman and didn't get it! He is after the NFF!

Then it became about the absence of birth records!

Thousands of Nigerians are born in the bush. They have no birth records!

They do not have money to get their birth records.

If you are an enabler of cheating, YOU ARE A CHEAT!

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:42 pm 
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txj wrote:
First it used to be, 'where is the evidence'?
Then Adokiye and Fortune Chukwudi happened. Adokiye came with 'evidence'...

Then it was, about the timing of his evidence. The enablers of cheating screamed, why now? Why did he not do it earlier, or later?
What are his motives? He is disgruntled! He wanted to be NFF Chairman and didn't get it! He is after the NFF!

Then it became about the absence of birth records!

Thousands of Nigerians are born in the bush. They have no birth records!

They do not have money to get their birth records.

If you are an enabler of cheating, YOU ARE A CHEAT!

Typical zoo resident response. It's not allowed to have a discourse, what is supposed to be the hallmark of a developed society. No wonder proposed state budgets is just rubber stamped rather than debated.
The accusation is cheat enablers because txj the street dumb kid is not having his way :rotf:

The folly of your argument is obvious. Some state cannot even pay their workers but you're not arguing it's year 2000, how could it be so. Some people in Lagos state, the state that generates the most IGF, have mo electricity or running water and some don't even have a toilet.

But here comes txj, the book knowledge but street dumb kid claiming most births in Nigeria today happens in the hospital with a fully functioning printer and computer that churns out birth certs in every hospital. Not only is this happening but it's happening in all the states regardless of their financial challenges and useless governor in charge. In fact there should be a 3 letter word for a village ID 10 T - txj :tic:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:16 pm 
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I've been wanting to stay away from the debate because of my ummmm...bias but I cant help myself.

I have some players from my academy in the current U17 team. This is how they got there.....

A coach noticed us in a tournament in Lagos and decided to come to our training to see if he any of the boys could make it. We played our U17 against our U19 when he came. The players in my U17 don't have passports but they have birth certificates and are with the academy with parental permission. The U17 coach picked the boys from my U17 team and they were invited to the first phase of camping.

NFF provided the accommodation for the boys but we were responsible for his general up keep. They all lasted in camp until the final 60. One of them just got sent home after the first batch of results came out. Others passed and some are going through the second batch testing today.

How does this lend credence to the argument? The assistant coach who came to my camp relied on my academy for age verification and the MRI test was used as a back up. He watched better players in the U19 squad and said he will make recommendations to the coaching staff there. If he wanted to cheat, he would have taken the U19 boys he really wanted.

I don't know if this helps or hurts the argument. All I know is they are trying to do the right thing from my own first hand experience.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:34 pm 
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Ugbowo wrote:
I've been wanting to stay away from the debate because of my ummmm...bias but I cant help myself.

I have some players from my academy in the current U17 team. This is how they got there.....

A coach noticed us in a tournament in Lagos and decided to come to our training to see if he any of the boys could make it. We played our U17 against our U19 when he came. The players in my U17 don't have passports but they have birth certificates and are with the academy with parental permission. The U17 coach picked the boys from my U17 team and they were invited to the first phase of camping.

NFF provided the accommodation for the boys but we were responsible for his general up keep. They all lasted in camp until the final 60. One of them just got sent home after the first batch of results came out. Others passed and some are going through the second batch testing today.

How does this lend credence to the argument? The assistant coach who came to my camp relied on my academy for age verification and the MRI test was used as a back up. He watched better players in the U19 squad and said he will make recommendations to the coaching staff there. If he wanted to cheat, he would have taken the U19 boys he really wanted.

I don't know if this helps or hurts the argument. All I know is they are trying to do the right thing from my own first hand experience.


Ugbowo,

It helps even though it is just from one academy. The information is important because it provides some insight on how players, who may not have been in the earlier age groups of the NFF (U13 and U15), are recruited. Apparently, this is one case where the NFF actually checks the birth records. For "all we knew before now", NFF purposely seeks for overage players and gambling to find which of them is able to beat the MRI test. :???: Although that idea, in my opinion, was laughable given efforts to raise U13 and U15 players but now we know that NFF even goes beyond just raising those younger squads.

Frankly, we are not where we need to be yet but I certainly believe that the NFF has made commendable efforts towards getting there with the U17 team. I hope they can device methods to curb the menace at the U20 level where it certainly appears to be persistent.

I think that this debate has to be advanced in the future to ask why FIFA refuses to publish results of the random tests they do at tournaments. I have a hunch why and I also believe that my hunch explains somewhat why FIFA is planning to ditch the U17 and U20 and go to the U19 in the near future. But let me stop at this point and hopefully we will all have that important debate in the near future.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:24 pm 
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Ugbowo wrote:
I've been wanting to stay away from the debate because of my ummmm...bias but I cant help myself.

I have some players from my academy in the current U17 team. This is how they got there.....

A coach noticed us in a tournament in Lagos and decided to come to our training to see if he any of the boys could make it. We played our U17 against our U19 when he came. The players in my U17 don't have passports but they have birth certificates and are with the academy with parental permission. The U17 coach picked the boys from my U17 team and they were invited to the first phase of camping.

NFF provided the accommodation for the boys but we were responsible for his general up keep. They all lasted in camp until the final 60. One of them just got sent home after the first batch of results came out. Others passed and some are going through the second batch testing today.

How does this lend credence to the argument? The assistant coach who came to my camp relied on my academy for age verification and the MRI test was used as a back up. He watched better players in the U19 squad and said he will make recommendations to the coaching staff there. If he wanted to cheat, he would have taken the U19 boys he really wanted.

I don't know if this helps or hurts the argument. All I know is they are trying to do the right thing from my own first hand experience.
Ugbowo, of course it helps contribute to the debate.
Thanks for the information.
And more importantly, kudos to you for your own contribution to the development of Nigerian players and football in general.

May you hammer on several counts. :thumb:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:34 pm 
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Ugbowo wrote:
I've been wanting to stay away from the debate because of my ummmm...bias but I cant help myself.

I have some players from my academy in the current U17 team. This is how they got there.....

A coach noticed us in a tournament in Lagos and decided to come to our training to see if he any of the boys could make it. We played our U17 against our U19 when he came. The players in my U17 don't have passports but they have birth certificates and are with the academy with parental permission. The U17 coach picked the boys from my U17 team and they were invited to the first phase of camping.

NFF provided the accommodation for the boys but we were responsible for his general up keep. They all lasted in camp until the final 60. One of them just got sent home after the first batch of results came out. Others passed and some are going through the second batch testing today.

How does this lend credence to the argument? The assistant coach who came to my camp relied on my academy for age verification and the MRI test was used as a back up. He watched better players in the U19 squad and said he will make recommendations to the coaching staff there. If he wanted to cheat, he would have taken the U19 boys he really wanted.

I don't know if this helps or hurts the argument. All I know is they are trying to do the right thing from my own first hand experience.


Ugbowo,

Your contribution is very much appreciated.

By any chance do you know where I can get a comprehensive list of the players who failed the test ?
I would like to write it up so we can comeback in 5 years time so see how they are doing.

Also what do you think of my Thesis on this subject since you are on the frontlines ?

Also how come no goalkeeping Academies ?

Who in your opinion are the top 10 Academies in Nigeria ?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:27 am 
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Ugbowo wrote:
I've been wanting to stay away from the debate because of my ummmm...bias but I cant help myself.

I have some players from my academy in the current U17 team. This is how they got there.....

A coach noticed us in a tournament in Lagos and decided to come to our training to see if he any of the boys could make it. We played our U17 against our U19 when he came. The players in my U17 don't have passports but they have birth certificates and are with the academy with parental permission. The U17 coach picked the boys from my U17 team and they were invited to the first phase of camping.

NFF provided the accommodation for the boys but we were responsible for his general up keep. They all lasted in camp until the final 60. One of them just got sent home after the first batch of results came out. Others passed and some are going through the second batch testing today.

How does this lend credence to the argument? The assistant coach who came to my camp relied on my academy for age verification and the MRI test was used as a back up. He watched better players in the U19 squad and said he will make recommendations to the coaching staff there. If he wanted to cheat, he would have taken the U19 boys he really wanted.

I don't know if this helps or hurts the argument. All I know is they are trying to do the right thing from my own first hand experience.



Thanks Ugbowo,

Everytime new info comes out on this issue, it puts to lie the fraud that is the enablers of cheating on this forum.

1. May years ago I pointed out that the NFF uses its U-15 program in part for show and relies on 'outside' help at crunch time for selection of players. I was called names, but the evidence was always there...

2. Ugbowo's post clearly reveals that U-17 players do indeed HAVE birth certificates. Apparently, they were not born in the bush and in this backward country that does not have hospitals!

3. The post reveals that there is little or no verification by the NFF, except for random use of MRI.

4. The fact remains that the NFF has ALL the tools it needs to ensure use of only true age eligible players. All that is required is a commitment by the NFF to do the proper thing.

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We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:45 pm 
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Ugbowo wrote:
I've been wanting to stay away from the debate because of my ummmm...bias but I cant help myself.

I have some players from my academy in the current U17 team. This is how they got there.....

A coach noticed us in a tournament in Lagos and decided to come to our training to see if he any of the boys could make it. We played our U17 against our U19 when he came. The players in my U17 don't have passports but they have birth certificates and are with the academy with parental permission. The U17 coach picked the boys from my U17 team and they were invited to the first phase of camping.

NFF provided the accommodation for the boys but we were responsible for his general up keep. They all lasted in camp until the final 60. One of them just got sent home after the first batch of results came out. Others passed and some are going through the second batch testing today.

How does this lend credence to the argument? The assistant coach who came to my camp relied on my academy for age verification and the MRI test was used as a back up. He watched better players in the U19 squad and said he will make recommendations to the coaching staff there. If he wanted to cheat, he would have taken the U19 boys he really wanted.

I don't know if this helps or hurts the argument. All I know is they are trying to do the right thing from my own first hand experience.


Thanks for the insight. :clap:

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