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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:21 pm 
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So, someone please tell us how a coach would deliberately choose players they think can beat the MRI test.
What are the criteria that they have perfected? The medical world would like to know. :idea:

What are the characteristics that a player would show to indicate to a coach that he could 'beat' the MRI?

Shortness?
Tallness?
Heaviness of voice?
Thickness of wrists and ankles?
Penile size?
Scrotal rugosity?
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

This is one of those theories that rapidly gains popularity but falls down on even a little scrutiny.
Until someone can suggest what the coaches might be using as a yardstick, the suggestion that this is what they do sounds preposterous. I don't even think consultant orthopedic surgeons or consultant radiologists could pick them out just by looking at them or watching them run around with a football. :idea:

That the coaches are choosing players they know or suspect might be overage is one thing.
But that they deliberately choose players they think can beat the MRI is something else.

Surely, I'm oviously missing something here, but I'm open to new knowledge.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:17 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
So, someone please tell us how a coach would deliberately choose players they think can beat the MRI test.
What are the criteria that they have perfected? The medical world would like to know. :idea:

What are the characteristics that a player would show to indicate to a coach that he could 'beat' the MRI?

Shortness?
Tallness?
Heaviness of voice?
Thickness of wrists and ankles?
Penile size?
Scrotal rugosity?
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

This is one of those theories that rapidly gains popularity but falls down on even a little scrutiny.
Until someone can suggest what the coaches might be using as a yardstick, the suggestion that this is what they do sounds preposterous. I don't even think consultant orthopedic surgeons or consultant radiologists could pick them out just by looking at them or watching them run around with a football. :idea:

That the coaches are choosing players they know or suspect might be overage is one thing.
But that they deliberately choose players they think can beat the MRI is something else.

Surely, I'm oviously missing something here, but I'm open to new knowledge.


They know the test is not perfect. So they keep trying their luck. Because in the past they have had players who passed the test who were not under the age cutoff.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:48 pm 
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Cellular wrote:
ohenhen1 wrote:
The idea that they choose over age players that can beat the test doesn't make sense. It cost a lot of money to do the test. And the test is not accurate. There are cases of under age people failing the test. And there are over age players that pass the test. I don't think the NFF is intentionally choosing over age players. The problem is the corrupt society and lack of good records. I must commend the U15 program. That program has helped.


Bros, they are!

I have defended these dishonest, no good idiots in the past. They are in collusion with the racket.
They even take money and tell genuinely young players that they are not "mature" enough... that they should wait.

They forget the reason for the tournament in the first place.

Some are even saying that a child supposedly born after 2000 doesn't have any verifiable evidence of date of birth. Hiding under the legitimacy of MRI test. You should interact with these vermins and realize that the rut is deep. Soon enough, we will be using players born outside the country...


Ps., the so-called honest coach of the lot was caught on tape accepting a bribe, yet nothing. :???: :curse: :curse:


are you minding Ohenhen? I am glad you have seen what they're doing, after vigorously defending them.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:50 pm 
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Cellular wrote:
Damunk wrote:
So, someone please tell us how a coach would deliberately choose players they think can beat the MRI test.
What are the criteria that they have perfected? The medical world would like to know. :idea:

What are the characteristics that a player would show to indicate to a coach that he could 'beat' the MRI?

Shortness?
Tallness?
Heaviness of voice?
Thickness of wrists and ankles?
Penile size?
Scrotal rugosity?
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

This is one of those theories that rapidly gains popularity but falls down on even a little scrutiny.
Until someone can suggest what the coaches might be using as a yardstick, the suggestion that this is what they do sounds preposterous. I don't even think consultant orthopedic surgeons or consultant radiologists could pick them out just by looking at them or watching them run around with a football. :idea:

That the coaches are choosing players they know or suspect might be overage is one thing.
But that they deliberately choose players they think can beat the MRI is something else.

Surely, I'm oviously missing something here, but I'm open to new knowledge.


They know the test is not perfect. So they keep trying their luck. Because in the past they have had players who passed the test who were not under the age cutoff.


Very simple strategy. It was evident from their responses re the Chukwudi incident, when their argument was that the boy passed the MRI test, therefore all of Adokiye's and KoC's evidence were mute.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:39 pm 
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txj wrote:
charlie wrote:
Cellular wrote:
TXJ is right. They choose players who are able to beat the test. Has nothing to do with their real age.



Wait a second, I am confused with your last statement. Are you saying that they know that MRI tests are not a viable test of a persons age, hence they just ignore the players actual age and focus on passing the test?

If so, makes me wonder if the people that created this MRI test were more interested in negating the physical advantage that Africans have at a certain age group.


You are not only a conspiracy theorist, but a daft conspiracy theorist!


TXJ,

In general, I have always shown you the respect you deserve. But if you are going to resort to immature ad hominum instead of voicing your opinion or opposition intelligently, then you need only look in a mirror as you throw your insults.

I will give you another chance to respectfully respond. My question is simple. Is MRI a definitive means of determining a persons age, or rather a means to create a level field for physical development within an age group competition?

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Last edited by charlie on Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:53 pm 
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Quote:
Schillachi wrote:
txj wrote:
charlie wrote:
Cellular wrote:
TXJ is right. They choose players who are able to beat the test. Has nothing to do with their real age.



Wait a second, I am confused with your last statement. Are you saying that they know that MRI tests are not a viable test of a persons age, hence they just ignore the players actual age and focus on passing the test?

If so, makes me wonder if the people that created this MRI test were more interested in negating the physical advantage that Africans have at a certain age group.


You are not only a conspiracy theorist, but a daft conspiracy theorist!


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dude actually thinks the MRI test was created for football tournaments...


The MRI test and grading system used in age testing was actually first created specifically to address perceived age cheating in the U17 FIFA WC competition.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2465442/

In my opinion, creating any grading system that measures degree of fusion between trabecular fusion in the wrist as a means to measure a persons age is absolutely prone to all kinds of statistical errors given the clear genetically differences with regards to physical development between different human races.

I am not the only one with this opinion. There is an article written in Scientific American that also voices the exact same concerns.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... age-fraud/

Quote:
Ultimately, there is no known foolproof, scientific test that will allow doctors—or sports regulators—to determine an individual’s age. The science suggests that applying a lone wrist MRI test to make such determinations is inappropriate at best and potentially harmful at worst.


FIFA know this. There have been countless articles proving this point over and over again. There have been numerous false positives found, yet MRI scans are still positioned as fool proof test in age category competitions.

Here is an interesting quote from the original article written by the people that created the MRI based aging system:

Quote:
496 healthy male adolescent soccer players between the ages of 14 and 19 from Switzerland,
Malaysia, Algeria, and Argentina had an MRI examination of the left wrist, and a newly developed grading system was applied to determine the degree of epiphyseal fusion of the radius.


How could you create an accurate grading system without using/including West Africans, Caribbeans, North American born African/Blacks or even Asians (with their own wide genetic pool as well) in your sample pool and expect to have any kind of accurate grading system??

Quote:
. In that research the authors attempted to account for ethnic differences, by using healthy male adolescents from Switzerland, Malaysia, Algeria and Argentina; however a huge gap exists in this study as no people of black African descent were involved in the study. Therefore, the observed lack of correlation between the ages of the players and their MRI grading in this study could suggests that the current FIFA grading system may be unduly disqualifying Ghanaian players who are
actually 17 years and below.

Different studies that used the atlas of Greulich and Pyle and Tanner standards to determine skeletal maturity and epiphyseal closure across
many continents have presented different results. The European population in Denmark [8], Spain [9] and Holland [10] presented good
correlation with Greulich and Pyle and Tanner standards while Turkish boys advanced in their skeletal age faster [11]. The South American
[12], population presented good correlation using the TW2 technique, whereas a sample in sub-Saharan Africa showed slower skeletal age
development [13]. These reports together with the findings of this study suggest there are variations in the chronological age across continents and races


https://www.jofri.net/article/S2212-4780(17)30015-1/pdf

Quote:
Our critical literature review reveals that there is no standard method for bone age assessment. The most commonly used and extensively developed methods use Hand & Wrist radiographs in children under 18 years and computed tomography (CT) images of medial end of clavicle in individuals aged 18-22 years. Also, some methods are considered applicable to children of certain populations whereas they do not conform to the growth pattern of children in other geographic locations.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3955574/


The more you research into how the current Dvorak based MRI age grading system works and was developed, the more it highlights an inherent bias.
I insist in my opinion that FIFA is only looking to level the physical playing field for underage competitions with MRI scans and in so doing, they are negating the natural advantage West Africans have in youth competitions. And the sample group used to create this testing system is my main reason for thinking this.

Its not a conspiracy theory. Its just my opinion.
You are entitled to yours.

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Last edited by charlie on Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:32 am, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:15 am 
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Cellular wrote:
Damunk wrote:
So, someone please tell us how a coach would deliberately choose players they think can beat the MRI test.
What are the criteria that they have perfected? The medical world would like to know. :idea:

What are the characteristics that a player would show to indicate to a coach that he could 'beat' the MRI?

Shortness?
Tallness?
Heaviness of voice?
Thickness of wrists and ankles?
Penile size?
Scrotal rugosity?
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

This is one of those theories that rapidly gains popularity but falls down on even a little scrutiny.
Until someone can suggest what the coaches might be using as a yardstick, the suggestion that this is what they do sounds preposterous. I don't even think consultant orthopedic surgeons or consultant radiologists could pick them out just by looking at them or watching them run around with a football. :idea:

That the coaches are choosing players they know or suspect might be overage is one thing.
But that they deliberately choose players they think can beat the MRI is something else.

Surely, I'm oviously missing something here, but I'm open to new knowledge.


They know the test is not perfect. So they keep trying their luck. Because in the past they have had players who passed the test who were not under the age cutoff.


Cellular,

While it is possible a player that is over age passes the test, it is also possible that a player under the age fails the test. I hope we agree on this. Thus, even if you are to verify a player's actual age, you will still have some of them fail the MRI test in Nigeria or any African country where MRI is used based on current FIFA requirement. As you will agree with me, that will not be cheating since the ages are verified initially. But let me move on.

One thing that I have not written on here is the 2009 test compared to the test today. It seems to me, clearly now, that people think the same procedures were in place. I state this because of the constant reference to Fortune Chukwudi https://www.fifa.com/development/news/y=2009/m=10/news=caught-the-wrists-1121679.html (Note the last few paragraphs). Please note that in 2009 the federations were asked to carry out MRI tests but it was not something that was mandated as I recall. There were stories that Chukwudi failed but still included in the squad and there were stories that he actually passed the test. Which of those is correct? I am uncertain. However, one thing for sure is he was not just over age but well over age and could not have possibly passed the test. His inclusion was clearly fraudulent. Unfortunately, this was a period that CAF did not have its own test to check on what is done at the local units.

The system has changed since, in various ways. Please take note of this when you follow this argument:

1. CAF has a check in its competition today. As you may know, several players failed at the East African qualifiers this year. Wilfred Ndidi and a few others failed after passing the Nigerian test in 2015. You may ask? How is it you can pass one test but not the other? It can happen. For instance, Ndidi passed the test as a Grade 6 which means bones nearly fused. Months later (possibly with bones now fused) he failed the CAF test. Note that among the 15 players who failed the test this year are actually players who were grades 5 and 6 meaning they actually passed the MRI test but the NFF is not taking the risk it did with likes of Ndidi because those are guys whose wrists will possibly fuse before both the CAF and FIFA tests and, thus, will eventually fail. Let's bear that in mind and also note that some of these players may well have been under 17!

2. NFF selects players at U13 and U15 in preparation for having players at the correct age. Note that even this does not assure that they will pass the test! This is not because they are not within correct age but simply because of error in the MRI. But you cannot trust that those players will develop well football wise by the time they get to 17. Thus, there are new players (who did not play at U15 and U217 levels) who must be introduced come U17 time because there is need to get players, within the eligibility age, who are playing well at the U17 selection time.

3. Note that FIFA, beyond just CAF, does a test at the FIFA tournament. FIFA has never released these results. They claim it is used to further the study of the use of MRI. It is quite possible that at that level not just some of the African players but players from USA, Europe and elsewhere actually fail this test. Note also that by the time the FIFA tournament takes place, players who are actually over the stated age of eligibility are regarded eligible. In essence, the competition is really a U18 (see Dvorak's note on this). This means, several possibly fail the test at the tournament. However, think about this -- can FIFA possibly deny those guys in Europe and America where birth certificates are accurate? I think not because they have birth certificates that are likely accurate compared to those from Africa and Asia. If FIFA was to deny players who fail at this level, it will have a major issue in its hands and thus it is convenient to claim a continuation of a study with their results! Just a note, at a previous FIFA competition, as many as 35% of players failed the test (see Dvorak studies) -- that indicates to me that it was not just African and Asia players that fail this MRI test).

4. We have had one claim by an academy owner (Ugbowo) stating how the process occurs, at least as it pertains to his squad. Although it is just one example, it provides a glimpse of how NFF may be picking up some of these boys. His example does not support the view that the NFF is deliberately picking up over age players.

IMHO, I think NFF is doing the best that it can to work with the MRI system by using young players likely to be eligible. If anything, going by an article posted a while back by Txj, one can argue that the system (MRI) may adversely affect African players. But that is neither here nor there. I state this because since the Dvorak test, we know that several other tests have been conducted in Senegal, Egypt, and Ghana besides Algeria which was included in the initial test. All the tests, with exemption of Ghana, support the initial MRI research results. Now why was Ghana result different? Take a look at selection of sample for that study. The researchers accepted the age submitted by Ghana footballers and used that to compare the test results and it was all over the place. The question is: Were the ages submitted by those players accurate in the first place?

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Last edited by Enugu II on Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:44 am 
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BTW, here is another known case of a false positive:

In July 2013, sixteen-year-old United States-born Abuchi Obinwa failed an MRI test when undergoing assessment to represent the Nigeria U17 team at the 2013 FIFA U-17 World Cup.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuchi_Obinwa

For anyone with children born in North America or Europe, you will attest that it is almost impossible to falsify your age. Abuchi has gone on to represent the USA in U17 to U20 competitions.

So,...what was the excuse here for those claiming MRI scans for age testing are fool proof??

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:57 am 
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maceo4 wrote:
Damunk wrote:
EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA wrote:
They need to look at this MRI issue carefully in regards to measuring bone density. It’s a well known medical fact that Africans have more bone density and grow faster than all others.
Chief, the MRI is nothing to do with "bone density".
How many times dem wan xplain am for this site? :roll:


I gave that comment the side eye :boo: , Emir refuses to learn :tic:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:07 am 
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charlie wrote:
BTW, here is another known case of a false positive:

In July 2013, sixteen-year-old United States-born Abuchi Obinwa failed an MRI test when undergoing assessment to represent the Nigeria U17 team at the 2013 FIFA U-17 World Cup.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuchi_Obinwa

For anyone with children born in North America or Europe, you will attest that it is almost impossible to falsify your age. Abuchi has gone on to represent the USA in U17 to U20 competitions.

So,...what was the excuse here for those claiming MRI scans for age testing are fool proof??
A good control study would be to do scans on age-verified 17 year old African-Americans and Afri-Brits and see how many will 'fail' the test.
Maybe then some of these stubborn heads will recognize that 'failing' the test works both ways and isnt solely about age-cheating.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:37 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
charlie wrote:
BTW, here is another known case of a false positive:

In July 2013, sixteen-year-old United States-born Abuchi Obinwa failed an MRI test when undergoing assessment to represent the Nigeria U17 team at the 2013 FIFA U-17 World Cup.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuchi_Obinwa

For anyone with children born in North America or Europe, you will attest that it is almost impossible to falsify your age. Abuchi has gone on to represent the USA in U17 to U20 competitions.

So,...what was the excuse here for those claiming MRI scans for age testing are fool proof??
A good control study would be to do scans on age-verified 17 year old African-Americans and Afri-Brits and see how many will 'fail' the test.
Maybe then some of these stubborn heads will recognize that 'failing' the test works both ways and isnt solely about age-cheating.


DaMunk:
Everyone knows that it works both ways. People who plan to cheat do NOT care. They are focused on the loopholes that allow older players to sneak in. Remember the cheaters think true u-17 players are "not mature", so their failing the test doesn't bother them.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:57 pm 
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:? So it’s not fool proof. Why is tha hard for people to accept?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:31 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
Cellular wrote:
Damunk wrote:
So, someone please tell us how a coach would deliberately choose players they think can beat the MRI test.
What are the criteria that they have perfected? The medical world would like to know. :idea:

What are the characteristics that a player would show to indicate to a coach that he could 'beat' the MRI?

Shortness?
Tallness?
Heaviness of voice?
Thickness of wrists and ankles?
Penile size?
Scrotal rugosity?
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

This is one of those theories that rapidly gains popularity but falls down on even a little scrutiny.
Until someone can suggest what the coaches might be using as a yardstick, the suggestion that this is what they do sounds preposterous. I don't even think consultant orthopedic surgeons or consultant radiologists could pick them out just by looking at them or watching them run around with a football. :idea:

That the coaches are choosing players they know or suspect might be overage is one thing.
But that they deliberately choose players they think can beat the MRI is something else.

Surely, I'm oviously missing something here, but I'm open to new knowledge.


They know the test is not perfect. So they keep trying their luck. Because in the past they have had players who passed the test who were not under the age cutoff.


Cellular,

While it is possible a player that is over age passes the test, it is also possible that a player under the age fails the test. I hope we agree on this. Thus, even if you are to verify a player's actual age, you will still have some of them fail the MRI test in Nigeria or any African country where MRI is used based on current FIFA requirement. As you will agree with me, that will not be cheating since the ages are verified initially. But let me move on.

One thing that I have not written on here is the 2009 test compared to the test today. It seems to me, clearly now, that people think the same procedures were in place. I state this because of the constant reference to Fortune Chukwudi https://www.fifa.com/development/news/y=2009/m=10/news=caught-the-wrists-1121679.html (Note the last few paragraphs). Please note that in 2009 the federations were asked to carry out MRI tests but it was not something that was mandated as I recall. There were stories that Chukwudi failed but still included in the squad and there were stories that he actually passed the test. Which of those is correct? I am uncertain. However, one thing for sure is he was not just over age but well over age and could not have possibly passed the test. His inclusion was clearly fraudulent. Unfortunately, this was a period that CAF did not have its own test to check on what is done at the local units.

The system has changed since, in various ways. Please take note of this when you follow this argument:

1. CAF has a check in its competition today. As you may know, several players failed at the East African qualifiers this year. Wilfred Ndidi and a few others failed after passing the Nigerian test in 2015. You may ask? How is it you can pass one test but not the other? It can happen. For instance, Ndidi passed the test as a Grade 6 which means bones nearly fused. Months later (possibly with bones now fused) he failed the CAF test. Note that among the 15 players who failed the test this year are actually players who were grades 5 and 6 meaning they actually passed the MRI test but the NFF is not taking the risk it did with likes of Ndidi because those are guys whose wrists will possibly fuse before both the CAF and FIFA tests and, thus, will eventually fail. Let's bear that in mind and also note that some of these players may well have been under 17!

2. NFF selects players at U13 and U15 in preparation for having players at the correct age. Note that even this does not assure that they will pass the test! This is not because they are not within correct age but simply because of error in the MRI. But you cannot trust that those players will develop well football wise by the time they get to 17. Thus, there are new players (who did not play at U15 and U217 levels) who must be introduced come U17 time because there is need to get players, within the eligibility age, who are playing well at the U17 selection time.

3. Note that FIFA, beyond just CAF, does a test at the FIFA tournament. FIFA has never released these results. They claim it is used to further the study of the use of MRI. It is quite possible that at that level not just some of the African players but players from USA, Europe and elsewhere actually fail this test. Note also that by the time the FIFA tournament takes place, players who are actually over the stated age of eligibility are regarded eligible. In essence, the competition is really a U18 (see Dvorak's note on this). This means, several possibly fail the test at the tournament. However, think about this -- can FIFA possibly deny those guys in Europe and America where birth certificates are accurate? I think not because they have birth certificates that are likely accurate compared to those from Africa and Asia. If FIFA was to deny players who fail at this level, it will have a major issue in its hands and thus it is convenient to claim a continuation of a study with their results! Just a note, at a previous FIFA competition, as many as 35% of players failed the test (see Dvorak studies) -- that indicates to me that it was not just African and Asia players that fail this MRI test).

4. We have had one claim by an academy owner (Ugbowo) stating how the process occurs, at least as it pertains to his squad. Although it is just one example, it provides a glimpse of how NFF may be picking up some of these boys. His example does not support the view that the NFF is deliberately picking up over age players.

IMHO, I think NFF is doing the best that it can to work with the MRI system by using young players likely to be eligible. If anything, going by an article posted a while back by Txj, one can argue that the system (MRI) may adversely affect African players. But that is neither here nor there. I state this because since the Dvorak test, we know that several other tests have been conducted in Senegal, Egypt, and Ghana besides Algeria which was included in the initial test. All the tests, with exemption of Ghana, support the initial MRI research results. Now why was Ghana result different? Take a look at selection of sample for that study. The researchers accepted the age submitted by Ghana footballers and used that to compare the test results and it was all over the place. The question is: Were the ages submitted by those players accurate in the first place?


Prof., not to delve into an area that you are an expert on, but if there's a test that has 37.5 percent failure rate (15 out of 30 failing), should such a test be used or considered a fair test? There's something going on here. Maybe FIFA like someone pointed out should use the test to test players in the West to see if the failure rate is that high. I don't believe in science, that they will adopt the use of such a test.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:13 pm 
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Cellular wrote:
Prof., not to delve into an area that you are an expert on, but if there's a test that has 37.5 percent failure rate (15 out of 30 failing), should such a test be used or considered a fair test? There's something going on here. Maybe FIFA like someone pointed out should use the test to test players in the West to see if the failure rate is that high. I don't believe in science, that they will adopt the use of such a test.


Cell,

They test players from the West at the tournament but do not release the result n any test on any country. Instead, they claim confidentiality and the use of results to consolidate their research. I suspect that some of those players (from the West) fail the test. Bear in mind that the research that led to the implementation of MRI had 35% of U17 players fail the test at a FIFA tournament. One can presume all 35% could not have come from Africa and Asia.

TBH, what I think is that FIFA is in a catch-22. They want to stamp out cheating in areas where birth certificates may not be available or are alterable (i.e. Africa and Asia). This is why they introduced the MRI but cannot simply apply MRI in ONLY those areas without a political issue of discrimination. Thus, FIFA collects samples from all participants at the FIFA tournaments but then does not release the results because it may lead to disqualification of players from the West who fail the test but have birth certificates that show that they are eligible. FIFA cannot possibly disqualify such players when the birth certificate is in fact more accurate and precise than an MRI test.

However, in places like Asia and Africa, the Confederations enforce the MRI to stamp out the cheating. In those places, the birth certificate is not a trusted documentation. Even if a player has them, they cannot be used over an MRI considering the environment. I presume that for Nigeria to obtain the status of using the birth certificates like the West they must FIRST convince FIFA of the authenticity of documents coming from Nigeria. We are in the current predicament because we failed to do this during the era of the use of passports.

Cell, also note that 15 did not fail the MRI test outright. In my interpretation, only seven failed outright, the others were those who graded 5 or 6 on the test increasing the high likelihood of failure in the near future. They are simply excluded because they may fail in the test at a later date (e.g. CAF and FIFA tournaments).

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:29 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
Cellular wrote:
Prof., not to delve into an area that you are an expert on, but if there's a test that has 37.5 percent failure rate (15 out of 30 failing), should such a test be used or considered a fair test? There's something going on here. Maybe FIFA like someone pointed out should use the test to test players in the West to see if the failure rate is that high. I don't believe in science, that they will adopt the use of such a test.


Cell,

They test players from the West at the tournament but do not release the result n any test on any country. Instead, they claim confidentiality and the use of results to consolidate their research. I suspect that some of those players (from the West) fail the test. Bear in mind that the research that led to the implementation of MRI had 35% of U17 players fail the test at a FIFA tournament. One can presume all 35% could not have come from Africa and Asia.

TBH, what I think is that FIFA is in a catch-22. They want to stamp out cheating in areas where birth certificates may not be available or are alterable (i.e. Africa and Asia). This is why they introduced the MRI but cannot simply apply MRI in ONLY those areas without a political issue of discrimination. Thus, FIFA collects samples from all participants at the FIFA tournaments but then does not release the results because it may lead to disqualification of players from the West who fail the test but have birth certificates that show that they are eligible. FIFA cannot possibly disqualify such players when the birth certificate is in fact more accurate and precise than an MRI test.

However, in places like Asia and Africa, the Confederations enforce the MRI to stamp out the cheating. In those places, the birth certificate is not a trusted documentation. Even if a player has them, they cannot be used over an MRI considering the environment. I presume that for Nigeria to obtain the status of using the birth certificates like the West they must FIRST convince FIFA of the authenticity of documents coming from Nigeria. We are in the current predicament because we failed to do this during the era of the use of passports.

Cell, also note that 15 did not fail the MRI test outright. In my interpretation, only seven failed outright, the others were those who graded 5 or 6 on the test increasing the high likelihood of failure in the near future. They are simply excluded because they may fail in the test at a later date (e.g. CAF and FIFA tournaments).



Nice spin EII.

Very nice :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:30 am 
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Al B Sure wrote:
:? So it’s not fool proof. Why is tha hard for people to accept?



Thank you. That is the koko of the matter. My problem with it is that the original study is flawed, in my opinion. I said this much back in 2009. The sad thing is that our people have decided to embrace and adopt it in order to be compliant, while maintaining the ability sneak in overaged players.

For example, what is the remedy for a false-positive test? case in point the kid from Yankee, and perhaps, Ndidi? Were they not just cut, all of their records/history notwithstanding? In the absence of a more reliable test, we just need more people of integrity across the board.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:32 am 
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Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
Al B Sure wrote:
:? So it’s not fool proof. Why is tha hard for people to accept?



Thank you. That is the koko of the matter. My problem with it is that the original study is flawed, in my opinion. I said this much back in 2009. The sad thing is that our people have decided to embrace and adopt it in order to be compliant, while maintaining the ability sneak in overaged players.

For example, what is the remedy for a false-positive test? case in point the kid from Yankee, and perhaps, Ndidi? Were they not just cut, all of their records/history notwithstanding? In the absence of a more reliable test, we just need more people of integrity across the board.



Yes, I have heard the argument about may poor kids being born in the villages and not in the hospitals....I still don't think we have any legitimate excuses not to have near-accurate birth/age records for children born after 2000.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:42 am 
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Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
Al B Sure wrote:
:? So it’s not fool proof. Why is tha hard for people to accept?



Thank you. That is the koko of the matter. My problem with it is that the original study is flawed, in my opinion. I said this much back in 2009. The sad thing is that our people have decided to embrace and adopt it in order to be compliant, while maintaining the ability sneak in overaged players.

For example, what is the remedy for a false-positive test? case in point the kid from Yankee, and perhaps, Ndidi? Were they not just cut, all of their records/history notwithstanding? In the absence of a more reliable test, we just need more people of integrity across the board.



Yes, I have heard the argument about may poor kids being born in the villages and not in the hospitals....I still don't think we have any legitimate excuses not to have near-accurate birth/age records for children born after 2000.
Chief....There are no excuses, but that doesn't negate the fact that it remains the sad reality.
There are no excuses for numerous failings in Nigeria....poor power, poor roads, high infant mortality rate, nationwide corruption...
We can't just wish them away.
When you say there's an argument about "many poor kids born in the villages outside hospitals" you are seriously downplaying the scale of the matter. Unless you want to restrict eligibility to those born and registered in urban centres, the relatively educated and wealthy and those born abroad, there's no way round it. The undocumented and poorly documented exist in their millions.

I'd rather err on the side of caution, knowing that at the top end and the bottom end of the scale there will be those innocents that 'fail' the MRI test, while a small percentage of the 'guilty' at the top end will pass it. As long as dubious coaches are certain that their 'deliberately chosen' overage players are highly likely to get caught out by the MRI screening once they reach the national level, we are better off keeping it.
I'd rather that than hoping that we as a nation will suddenly get our registration of births and deaths up to speed and somehow eliminate all the unscrupulous hospital clerks, LG officials, school teachers/administrators and even parents willing to put pen to paper for a few thousand Naira.
I'm not sure you ever worked in rural Nigeria, but ascertaining precise DOBs even in infants brought to the primary health centres for the first time could be a nightmare. That was back then and its no better now.

MRI is a back-up, because presented birth certificates and school records are so unreliable if they even exist.
That's all.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:21 am 
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NFF is just lazy and broke. It cannot be that difficult to verify someone's age, unless the person never went to school, church, traditional stuff etc. There is no way one can be able to go back and erase all records kept on him since birth.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:39 am 
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So Nigeria is still playing the fool fiddling with MRI tests in 2018?? Time is running out on this trick.. We're talking kids born after 2000 that were in SSS around 2014 to 2017. Who are their business partners running this racket called MRI tests? They're picking those justified by those interpreting the test results nothing else. Come 2030 we would still be playing the fool with MRI and discussing its merits. Gerrarahia! Any kid that can't conclusively prove his age should be decamped, I guess the NFF officials haven't lived the nigerian experience hence need a fancy procedure. 15 out of 40, brazen fraudsters! :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:42 am 
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Cellular wrote:
folem wrote:
15 out of 40 Nigeria U-17 players fail age test

Quote:
At least 15 out of 40 players of the Nigerian Under-17 squad chosen for the African Cup of Nations tournament (AFCON) qualifiers have failed a mandatory age test.

The Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) tests revealed that some players were said to be much older than the required age limit.

Score Nigeria revealed that the 15 players have been expelled from the Golden Eaglets squad with another batch of 15 players set to undergo age tests before replacing the players who failed the age test.

Last year a similar incident occurred when as many as 23 players failed the age test that resulted in the Golden Eaglets failing to qualify for the 2017 Under-17 AFCON tournament in Rwanda.

The seven-team qualifying tournament taking place in September is to be held in Niger with only the tournament winners advancing to the AFCON tournament in Tanzania next year.

In 2016, Nigeria's 2015 FIFA Under-17 World Cup squad - who won the tournament for a record fifth time - had 26 of their 60 tested players disqualified after failing a mandatory MRI screening.

Only two of their starting XI remained available to play after the 26 players were deemed ineligible.

MRI scans can determine whether a player is below 17 with 99% accuracy.


We are just insincere people. My eye don open well well since moving back.

ZERO accountability. From a coach who still has his job after being caught on tape collecting a bribe to coaches and football officials who perpetrate this fraud.

TXJ is right. They choose players who are able to beat the test. Has nothing to do with their real age.

It's much worse, they choose players passed eligible by those interpreting the tests.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:34 am 
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Damunk wrote:
So, someone please tell us how a coach would deliberately choose players they think can beat the MRI test.
What are the criteria that they have perfected? The medical world would like to know. :idea:

What are the characteristics that a player would show to indicate to a coach that he could 'beat' the MRI?

Shortness?
Tallness?
Heaviness of voice?
Thickness of wrists and ankles?
Penile size?
Scrotal rugosity?
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

This is one of those theories that rapidly gains popularity but falls down on even a little scrutiny.
Until someone can suggest what the coaches might be using as a yardstick, the suggestion that this is what they do sounds preposterous. I don't even think consultant orthopedic surgeons or consultant radiologists could pick them out just by looking at them or watching them run around with a football. :idea:

That the coaches are choosing players they know or suspect might be overage is one thing.
But that they deliberately choose players they think can beat the MRI is something else.

Surely, I'm oviously missing something here, but I'm open to new knowledge.


A good start could be their confirmed birth certificates, no? If they really want to verify their ages, I think it is possible.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:37 am 
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felarey wrote:
So Nigeria is still playing the fool fiddling with MRI tests in 2018?? Time is running out on this trick.. We're talking kids born after 2000 that were in SSS around 2014 to 2017. Who are their business partners running this racket called MRI tests? They're picking those justified by those interpreting the test results nothing else. Come 2030 we would still be playing the fool with MRI and discussing its merits. Gerrarahia! Any kid that can't conclusively prove his age should be decamped, I guess the NFF officials haven't lived the nigerian experience hence need a fancy procedure. 15 out of 40, brazen fraudsters! :roll:


My brother...

I just taya.

In this internet age, Kids born in 2000 2001 cant produce their birth certs.

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