Cybereagles

The Undisputed Number One Home for All Super Eagles Fans
It is currently Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:51 am

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 104 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:00 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:57 pm
Posts: 36687
Location: UK
2think wrote:
Damunk wrote:
So, someone please tell us how a coach would deliberately choose players they think can beat the MRI test.
What are the criteria that they have perfected? The medical world would like to know. :idea:

What are the characteristics that a player would show to indicate to a coach that he could 'beat' the MRI?

Shortness?
Tallness?
Heaviness of voice?
Thickness of wrists and ankles?
Penile size?
Scrotal rugosity?
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

This is one of those theories that rapidly gains popularity but falls down on even a little scrutiny.
Until someone can suggest what the coaches might be using as a yardstick, the suggestion that this is what they do sounds preposterous. I don't even think consultant orthopedic surgeons or consultant radiologists could pick them out just by looking at them or watching them run around with a football. :idea:

That the coaches are choosing players they know or suspect might be overage is one thing.
But that they deliberately choose players they think can beat the MRI is something else.

Surely, I'm oviously missing something here, but I'm open to new knowledge.


A good start could be their confirmed birth certificates, no? If they really want to verify their ages, I think it is possible.
But
1. It seems you are all assuming that they are ignoring or showing no interest in the youngsters' BCs; and
2. That 'confirmation' you refer to is the very core of the problem!
Have you not been following the debate since? :idea:

By the way, the 'yardstick' I was referring to was the yardstick coaches allegedly use to determine who they think can 'beat' the MRI, because that is the accusation - that players are deliberately chosen by some odd criteria to beat the scanning systems.

I am trying to understand how they determine this.

_________________
"Ole kuku ni gbogbo wọn "


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:39 am
Posts: 16509
Location: Super Eagles Homeland
felarey wrote:
Cellular wrote:
folem wrote:
15 out of 40 Nigeria U-17 players fail age test

Quote:
At least 15 out of 40 players of the Nigerian Under-17 squad chosen for the African Cup of Nations tournament (AFCON) qualifiers have failed a mandatory age test.

The Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) tests revealed that some players were said to be much older than the required age limit.

Score Nigeria revealed that the 15 players have been expelled from the Golden Eaglets squad with another batch of 15 players set to undergo age tests before replacing the players who failed the age test.

Last year a similar incident occurred when as many as 23 players failed the age test that resulted in the Golden Eaglets failing to qualify for the 2017 Under-17 AFCON tournament in Rwanda.

The seven-team qualifying tournament taking place in September is to be held in Niger with only the tournament winners advancing to the AFCON tournament in Tanzania next year.

In 2016, Nigeria's 2015 FIFA Under-17 World Cup squad - who won the tournament for a record fifth time - had 26 of their 60 tested players disqualified after failing a mandatory MRI screening.

Only two of their starting XI remained available to play after the 26 players were deemed ineligible.

MRI scans can determine whether a player is below 17 with 99% accuracy.


We are just insincere people. My eye don open well well since moving back.

ZERO accountability. From a coach who still has his job after being caught on tape collecting a bribe to coaches and football officials who perpetrate this fraud.

TXJ is right. They choose players who are able to beat the test. Has nothing to do with their real age.

It's much worse, they choose players passed eligible by those interpreting the tests.



I guess they do that for CAF as well or how do they get past CAF?

_________________
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:01 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 9:16 am
Posts: 19714
Location: Canada
Enugu II wrote:
felarey wrote:
Cellular wrote:
folem wrote:
15 out of 40 Nigeria U-17 players fail age test

Quote:
At least 15 out of 40 players of the Nigerian Under-17 squad chosen for the African Cup of Nations tournament (AFCON) qualifiers have failed a mandatory age test.

The Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) tests revealed that some players were said to be much older than the required age limit.

Score Nigeria revealed that the 15 players have been expelled from the Golden Eaglets squad with another batch of 15 players set to undergo age tests before replacing the players who failed the age test.

Last year a similar incident occurred when as many as 23 players failed the age test that resulted in the Golden Eaglets failing to qualify for the 2017 Under-17 AFCON tournament in Rwanda.

The seven-team qualifying tournament taking place in September is to be held in Niger with only the tournament winners advancing to the AFCON tournament in Tanzania next year.

In 2016, Nigeria's 2015 FIFA Under-17 World Cup squad - who won the tournament for a record fifth time - had 26 of their 60 tested players disqualified after failing a mandatory MRI screening.

Only two of their starting XI remained available to play after the 26 players were deemed ineligible.

MRI scans can determine whether a player is below 17 with 99% accuracy.


We are just insincere people. My eye don open well well since moving back.

ZERO accountability. From a coach who still has his job after being caught on tape collecting a bribe to coaches and football officials who perpetrate this fraud.

TXJ is right. They choose players who are able to beat the test. Has nothing to do with their real age.

It's much worse, they choose players passed eligible by those interpreting the tests.



I guess they do that for CAF as well or how do they get past CAF?

In the past some have passed the Nigeria one and failed the CAF one. Players kicked out close to tournament start date.
I bet if we subject the 25 of 40 that passed to CAF, there will be failures and potentially there may be passes among the 15 failed. Elite footballers good enough to be considered for the national team tend to be well known household names in their communities and they play football outdoors where people see them. They are often used as mercenaries representing different teams and have a track record. Anyone that has lived the nigerian experience knows this. My senior in secondary school Sunday Ominu failed to get into Kanu's '93 set. His age wasn't in question.

_________________
"Winning one trophy is good, I tell you. No matter what trophy it might be, you've got to take it.” - Sir Alex Ferguson

ENGLISH PREMIERSHIP CHAMP20NS, UEFA CHAMPIONS LEAGUE WINN3RS


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 1:29 am
Posts: 9703
Location: Indiana
Damunk wrote:
So, someone please tell us how a coach would deliberately choose players they think can beat the MRI test.
What are the criteria that they have perfected? The medical world would like to know. :idea:

What are the characteristics that a player would show to indicate to a coach that he could 'beat' the MRI?

Shortness?
Tallness?
Heaviness of voice?
Thickness of wrists and ankles?
Penile size?
Scrotal rugosity?
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

This is one of those theories that rapidly gains popularity but falls down on even a little scrutiny.
Until someone can suggest what the coaches might be using as a yardstick, the suggestion that this is what they do sounds preposterous. I don't even think consultant orthopedic surgeons or consultant radiologists could pick them out just by looking at them or watching them run around with a football. :idea:

That the coaches are choosing players they know or suspect might be overage is one thing.
But that they deliberately choose players they think can beat the MRI is something else.

Surely, I'm oviously missing something here, but I'm open to new knowledge.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

_________________
"We will go through the gate. If the gate is closed, we will go over the fence. If the fence is too high, we will pole vault in. If that doesn’t work, we will parachute in. But we are going to get health-care reform passed"
Nancy Pelosi, 01/28/2010 after Scott Brown got elected to Ted Kennedy's senate seat.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 1:29 am
Posts: 9703
Location: Indiana
felarey wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
felarey wrote:
Cellular wrote:
folem wrote:
15 out of 40 Nigeria U-17 players fail age test

Quote:
At least 15 out of 40 players of the Nigerian Under-17 squad chosen for the African Cup of Nations tournament (AFCON) qualifiers have failed a mandatory age test.

The Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) tests revealed that some players were said to be much older than the required age limit.

Score Nigeria revealed that the 15 players have been expelled from the Golden Eaglets squad with another batch of 15 players set to undergo age tests before replacing the players who failed the age test.

Last year a similar incident occurred when as many as 23 players failed the age test that resulted in the Golden Eaglets failing to qualify for the 2017 Under-17 AFCON tournament in Rwanda.

The seven-team qualifying tournament taking place in September is to be held in Niger with only the tournament winners advancing to the AFCON tournament in Tanzania next year.

In 2016, Nigeria's 2015 FIFA Under-17 World Cup squad - who won the tournament for a record fifth time - had 26 of their 60 tested players disqualified after failing a mandatory MRI screening.

Only two of their starting XI remained available to play after the 26 players were deemed ineligible.

MRI scans can determine whether a player is below 17 with 99% accuracy.


We are just insincere people. My eye don open well well since moving back.

ZERO accountability. From a coach who still has his job after being caught on tape collecting a bribe to coaches and football officials who perpetrate this fraud.

TXJ is right. They choose players who are able to beat the test. Has nothing to do with their real age.

It's much worse, they choose players passed eligible by those interpreting the tests.



I guess they do that for CAF as well or how do they get past CAF?

In the past some have passed the Nigeria one and failed the CAF one. Players kicked out close to tournament start date.
I bet if we subject the 25 of 40 that passed to CAF, there will be failures and potentially there may be passes among the 15 failed. Elite footballers good enough to be considered for the national team tend to be well known household names in their communities and they play football outdoors where people see them. They are often used as mercenaries representing different teams and have a track record. Anyone that has lived the nigerian experience knows this. My senior in secondary school Sunday Ominu failed to get into Kanu's '93 set. His age wasn't in question.


Damunk has added a lot of good points to this discourse. I will add that gradings of levels of fusions are relatively subjective. I can get 5 independent radiologists and I am pretty sure there will be variance in their grading. Overall, their reads will correlate, but when you get to the borderline, it's not always so black and white. So yes people passing Naija MRI and failing CAF one later, might not just be down to deliberate intent to cheat or players getting older and having bones then fuse, there's also observer variability. The best thing Naija can do to mitigate that is to cut off guys who are boerderline.

Chief O, it would be nice for Nigeria to get their act together and actually have correct, verifiable birth certificates. Heck, NFF can conduct independent investigations to trace the background of every player as much as is feasible to narrow down their likely real age. But economically speaking, it's just cheaper to do an MRI, and weed out those are fused/ nearly fused. MRI test is very very flawed, but I think it's the most practical solution for a flawed environment like Naija. At worst, there's 95%+ probability that the MRI-passing players are at most a few years older than 18. Maybe someday in our lifetime, Nigeria will get its act together and no longer need such flawed solutions.

_________________
"We will go through the gate. If the gate is closed, we will go over the fence. If the fence is too high, we will pole vault in. If that doesn’t work, we will parachute in. But we are going to get health-care reform passed"
Nancy Pelosi, 01/28/2010 after Scott Brown got elected to Ted Kennedy's senate seat.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:39 am
Posts: 16509
Location: Super Eagles Homeland
amafolas wrote:
felarey wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
felarey wrote:
Cellular wrote:
folem wrote:
15 out of 40 Nigeria U-17 players fail age test

Quote:
At least 15 out of 40 players of the Nigerian Under-17 squad chosen for the African Cup of Nations tournament (AFCON) qualifiers have failed a mandatory age test.

The Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) tests revealed that some players were said to be much older than the required age limit.

Score Nigeria revealed that the 15 players have been expelled from the Golden Eaglets squad with another batch of 15 players set to undergo age tests before replacing the players who failed the age test.

Last year a similar incident occurred when as many as 23 players failed the age test that resulted in the Golden Eaglets failing to qualify for the 2017 Under-17 AFCON tournament in Rwanda.

The seven-team qualifying tournament taking place in September is to be held in Niger with only the tournament winners advancing to the AFCON tournament in Tanzania next year.

In 2016, Nigeria's 2015 FIFA Under-17 World Cup squad - who won the tournament for a record fifth time - had 26 of their 60 tested players disqualified after failing a mandatory MRI screening.

Only two of their starting XI remained available to play after the 26 players were deemed ineligible.

MRI scans can determine whether a player is below 17 with 99% accuracy.


We are just insincere people. My eye don open well well since moving back.

ZERO accountability. From a coach who still has his job after being caught on tape collecting a bribe to coaches and football officials who perpetrate this fraud.

TXJ is right. They choose players who are able to beat the test. Has nothing to do with their real age.

It's much worse, they choose players passed eligible by those interpreting the tests.



I guess they do that for CAF as well or how do they get past CAF?

In the past some have passed the Nigeria one and failed the CAF one. Players kicked out close to tournament start date.
I bet if we subject the 25 of 40 that passed to CAF, there will be failures and potentially there may be passes among the 15 failed. Elite footballers good enough to be considered for the national team tend to be well known household names in their communities and they play football outdoors where people see them. They are often used as mercenaries representing different teams and have a track record. Anyone that has lived the nigerian experience knows this. My senior in secondary school Sunday Ominu failed to get into Kanu's '93 set. His age wasn't in question.


Damunk has added a lot of good points to this discourse. I will add that gradings of levels of fusions are relatively subjective. I can get 5 independent radiologists and I am pretty sure there will be variance in their grading. Overall, their reads will correlate, but when you get to the borderline, it's not always so black and white. So yes people passing Naija MRI and failing CAF one later, might not just be down to deliberate intent to cheat or players getting older and having bones then fuse, there's also observer variability. The best thing Naija can do to mitigate that is to cut off guys who are boerderline.

Chief O, it would be nice for Nigeria to get their act together and actually have correct, verifiable birth certificates. Heck, NFF can conduct independent investigations to trace the background of every player as much as is feasible to narrow down their likely real age. But economically speaking, it's just cheaper to do an MRI, and weed out those are fused/ nearly fused. MRI test is very very flawed, but I think it's the most practical solution for a flawed environment like Naija. At worst, there's 95%+ probability that the MRI-passing players are at most a few years older than 18. Maybe someday in our lifetime, Nigeria will get its act together and no longer need such flawed solutions.


amafolas,

In fact, the additional difference is the timing of the tests. Remember that the fusion is based on time (i.e. aging of the individual). Nigeria doing the test in July does not STOP THE BONES from growing by issuing an edict ( :rotf: ). Thus, by the time CAF carries out its own test, some who may have passed in July will fail the test due to increased maturity. This is exactly why some who were classified as failing this MRI test are people who actually passed in grades 5 and 6 but are likely to have bones fully fused at a later time necessitating that they are dropped now.

_________________
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 1:29 am
Posts: 9703
Location: Indiana
Enugu II wrote:
amafolas wrote:

Damunk has added a lot of good points to this discourse. I will add that gradings of levels of fusions are relatively subjective. I can get 5 independent radiologists and I am pretty sure there will be variance in their grading. Overall, their reads will correlate, but when you get to the borderline, it's not always so black and white. So yes people passing Naija MRI and failing CAF one later, might not just be down to deliberate intent to cheat or players getting older and having bones then fuse, there's also observer variability. The best thing Naija can do to mitigate that is to cut off guys who are boerderline.

Chief O, it would be nice for Nigeria to get their act together and actually have correct, verifiable birth certificates. Heck, NFF can conduct independent investigations to trace the background of every player as much as is feasible to narrow down their likely real age. But economically speaking, it's just cheaper to do an MRI, and weed out those are fused/ nearly fused. MRI test is very very flawed, but I think it's the most practical solution for a flawed environment like Naija. At worst, there's 95%+ probability that the MRI-passing players are at most a few years older than 18. Maybe someday in our lifetime, Nigeria will get its act together and no longer need such flawed solutions.


amafolas,

In fact, the additional difference is the timing of the tests. Remember that the fusion is based on time (i.e. aging of the individual). Nigeria doing the test in July does not STOP THE BONES from growing by issuing an edict ( :rotf: ). Thus, by the time CAF carries out its own test, some who may have passed in July will fail the test due to increased maturity. This is exactly why some who were classified as failing this MRI test are people who actually passed in grades 5 and 6 but are likely to have bones fully fused at a later time necessitating that they are dropped now.

i agreed with you, but I also added reader variance as another oft forgotten factor. People make it seem it like MRI read is completely black and white, and forget how subjective it is to a large degree. It is very possible for 2 independent and qualified readers to disagree especially at the margins. To reduce the likelihood of that happening, you are better off just choosing only kids who clearly passed.

_________________
"We will go through the gate. If the gate is closed, we will go over the fence. If the fence is too high, we will pole vault in. If that doesn’t work, we will parachute in. But we are going to get health-care reform passed"
Nancy Pelosi, 01/28/2010 after Scott Brown got elected to Ted Kennedy's senate seat.


Last edited by amafolas on Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:39 am
Posts: 16509
Location: Super Eagles Homeland
Just to add:

I am beginning to think that people believe that the NFF has a CHOICE on this matter of using MRI.

Please note that this is a FIFA requirement for all those who belong to Confederations where birth documentation is deemed inaccurate or nonexistent. CAF is one such confederation. Thus, whether Nigeria wants it or not or whether Nigeria uses its own birth documents, they MUST still use the MRI test as a back up and their players will be further tested by CAF. Which means that a certain number will continue to fail the test.

The only way to avoid an MRI test in the current system is to provide a compelling argument that convinces FIFA that an MRI test is no longer required because Nigeria does and can affirm authenticity and accuracy of birth documentation of players that it presents.

_________________
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:35 pm
Posts: 36025
Location: Somewhere
amafolas wrote:
felarey wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
felarey wrote:
Cellular wrote:
folem wrote:
15 out of 40 Nigeria U-17 players fail age test

Quote:
At least 15 out of 40 players of the Nigerian Under-17 squad chosen for the African Cup of Nations tournament (AFCON) qualifiers have failed a mandatory age test.

The Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) tests revealed that some players were said to be much older than the required age limit.

Score Nigeria revealed that the 15 players have been expelled from the Golden Eaglets squad with another batch of 15 players set to undergo age tests before replacing the players who failed the age test.

Last year a similar incident occurred when as many as 23 players failed the age test that resulted in the Golden Eaglets failing to qualify for the 2017 Under-17 AFCON tournament in Rwanda.

The seven-team qualifying tournament taking place in September is to be held in Niger with only the tournament winners advancing to the AFCON tournament in Tanzania next year.

In 2016, Nigeria's 2015 FIFA Under-17 World Cup squad - who won the tournament for a record fifth time - had 26 of their 60 tested players disqualified after failing a mandatory MRI screening.

Only two of their starting XI remained available to play after the 26 players were deemed ineligible.

MRI scans can determine whether a player is below 17 with 99% accuracy.


We are just insincere people. My eye don open well well since moving back.

ZERO accountability. From a coach who still has his job after being caught on tape collecting a bribe to coaches and football officials who perpetrate this fraud.

TXJ is right. They choose players who are able to beat the test. Has nothing to do with their real age.

It's much worse, they choose players passed eligible by those interpreting the tests.



I guess they do that for CAF as well or how do they get past CAF?

In the past some have passed the Nigeria one and failed the CAF one. Players kicked out close to tournament start date.
I bet if we subject the 25 of 40 that passed to CAF, there will be failures and potentially there may be passes among the 15 failed. Elite footballers good enough to be considered for the national team tend to be well known household names in their communities and they play football outdoors where people see them. They are often used as mercenaries representing different teams and have a track record. Anyone that has lived the nigerian experience knows this. My senior in secondary school Sunday Ominu failed to get into Kanu's '93 set. His age wasn't in question.


Damunk has added a lot of good points to this discourse. I will add that gradings of levels of fusions are relatively subjective. I can get 5 independent radiologists and I am pretty sure there will be variance in their grading. Overall, their reads will correlate, but when you get to the borderline, it's not always so black and white. So yes people passing Naija MRI and failing CAF one later, might not just be down to deliberate intent to cheat or players getting older and having bones then fuse, there's also observer variability. The best thing Naija can do to mitigate that is to cut off guys who are boerderline.

Chief O, it would be nice for Nigeria to get their act together and actually have correct, verifiable birth certificates. Heck, NFF can conduct independent investigations to trace the background of every player as much as is feasible to narrow down their likely real age. But economically speaking, it's just cheaper to do an MRI, and weed out those are fused/ nearly fused. MRI test is very very flawed, but I think it's the most practical solution for a flawed environment like Naija. At worst, there's 95%+ probability that the MRI-passing players are at most a few years older than 18. Maybe someday in our lifetime, Nigeria will get its act together and no longer need such flawed solutions.


You have helped me make my point. If we all agree that the MRI test is flawed, we can live with it being the best option ONLY on condition that the powers are not exploiting the flaws to cheat. That is my whole point. I have no issues going for the only feasible option if only we were confident that the selection and verification processes are conducted in GOOD FAITH.

_________________
Image
AFCON 2015 sweet o
Barren for 35 yrs no good o

New member and Titled Chief, Distant Gunners Consortium.
"This is an island surrounded by water, big water, ocean water."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 9:22 pm
Posts: 44522
Damunk wrote:
So, someone please tell us how a coach would deliberately choose players they think can beat the MRI test.
What are the criteria that they have perfected? The medical world would like to know. :idea:

What are the characteristics that a player would show to indicate to a coach that he could 'beat' the MRI?

Shortness?
Tallness?
Heaviness of voice?
Thickness of wrists and ankles?
Penile size?
Scrotal rugosity?
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

This is one of those theories that rapidly gains popularity but falls down on even a little scrutiny.
Until someone can suggest what the coaches might be using as a yardstick, the suggestion that this is what they do sounds preposterous. I don't even think consultant orthopedic surgeons or consultant radiologists could pick them out just by looking at them or watching them run around with a football. :idea:

That the coaches are choosing players they know or suspect might be overage is one thing.
But that they deliberately choose players they think can beat the MRI is something else.

Surely, I'm oviously missing something here, but I'm open to new knowledge.


You are not missing anything.

_________________
We have been brainwashed by the Premier League that it's the best in the world. Nonsense. It's the best brand
Roy Keane: ITV 02/25/14

He says that we are currently "brainwashed" into believing that the Premier League is the best competition in the world, and that we are now a long way off dominating the Champions League again.
Gary Neville: Mirror: 12/23/14

I think Spain’s by far the best league.
Scholes. UK Guardian 9/6/16


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 9:22 pm
Posts: 44522
Enugu II wrote:
Cellular wrote:
Damunk wrote:
So, someone please tell us how a coach would deliberately choose players they think can beat the MRI test.
What are the criteria that they have perfected? The medical world would like to know. :idea:

What are the characteristics that a player would show to indicate to a coach that he could 'beat' the MRI?

Shortness?
Tallness?
Heaviness of voice?
Thickness of wrists and ankles?
Penile size?
Scrotal rugosity?
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

This is one of those theories that rapidly gains popularity but falls down on even a little scrutiny.
Until someone can suggest what the coaches might be using as a yardstick, the suggestion that this is what they do sounds preposterous. I don't even think consultant orthopedic surgeons or consultant radiologists could pick them out just by looking at them or watching them run around with a football. :idea:

That the coaches are choosing players they know or suspect might be overage is one thing.
But that they deliberately choose players they think can beat the MRI is something else.

Surely, I'm oviously missing something here, but I'm open to new knowledge.


They know the test is not perfect. So they keep trying their luck. Because in the past they have had players who passed the test who were not under the age cutoff.


Cellular,

While it is possible a player that is over age passes the test, it is also possible that a player under the age fails the test. I hope we agree on this. Thus, even if you are to verify a player's actual age, you will still have some of them fail the MRI test in Nigeria or any African country where MRI is used based on current FIFA requirement. As you will agree with me, that will not be cheating since the ages are verified initially. But let me move on.

One thing that I have not written on here is the 2009 test compared to the test today. It seems to me, clearly now, that people think the same procedures were in place. I state this because of the constant reference to Fortune Chukwudi https://www.fifa.com/development/news/y=2009/m=10/news=caught-the-wrists-1121679.html (Note the last few paragraphs). Please note that in 2009 the federations were asked to carry out MRI tests but it was not something that was mandated as I recall. There were stories that Chukwudi failed but still included in the squad and there were stories that he actually passed the test. Which of those is correct? I am uncertain. However, one thing for sure is he was not just over age but well over age and could not have possibly passed the test. His inclusion was clearly fraudulent. Unfortunately, this was a period that CAF did not have its own test to check on what is done at the local units.

The system has changed since, in various ways. Please take note of this when you follow this argument:

1. CAF has a check in its competition today. As you may know, several players failed at the East African qualifiers this year. Wilfred Ndidi and a few others failed after passing the Nigerian test in 2015. You may ask? How is it you can pass one test but not the other? It can happen. For instance, Ndidi passed the test as a Grade 6 which means bones nearly fused. Months later (possibly with bones now fused) he failed the CAF test. Note that among the 15 players who failed the test this year are actually players who were grades 5 and 6 meaning they actually passed the MRI test but the NFF is not taking the risk it did with likes of Ndidi because those are guys whose wrists will possibly fuse before both the CAF and FIFA tests and, thus, will eventually fail. Let's bear that in mind and also note that some of these players may well have been under 17!

2. NFF selects players at U13 and U15 in preparation for having players at the correct age. Note that even this does not assure that they will pass the test! This is not because they are not within correct age but simply because of error in the MRI. But you cannot trust that those players will develop well football wise by the time they get to 17. Thus, there are new players (who did not play at U15 and U217 levels) who must be introduced come U17 time because there is need to get players, within the eligibility age, who are playing well at the U17 selection time.

3. Note that FIFA, beyond just CAF, does a test at the FIFA tournament. FIFA has never released these results. They claim it is used to further the study of the use of MRI. It is quite possible that at that level not just some of the African players but players from USA, Europe and elsewhere actually fail this test. Note also that by the time the FIFA tournament takes place, players who are actually over the stated age of eligibility are regarded eligible. In essence, the competition is really a U18 (see Dvorak's note on this). This means, several possibly fail the test at the tournament. However, think about this -- can FIFA possibly deny those guys in Europe and America where birth certificates are accurate? I think not because they have birth certificates that are likely accurate compared to those from Africa and Asia. If FIFA was to deny players who fail at this level, it will have a major issue in its hands and thus it is convenient to claim a continuation of a study with their results! Just a note, at a previous FIFA competition, as many as 35% of players failed the test (see Dvorak studies) -- that indicates to me that it was not just African and Asia players that fail this MRI test).

4. We have had one claim by an academy owner (Ugbowo) stating how the process occurs, at least as it pertains to his squad. Although it is just one example, it provides a glimpse of how NFF may be picking up some of these boys. His example does not support the view that the NFF is deliberately picking up over age players.

IMHO, I think NFF is doing the best that it can to work with the MRI system by using young players likely to be eligible. If anything, going by an article posted a while back by Txj, one can argue that the system (MRI) may adversely affect African players. But that is neither here nor there. I state this because since the Dvorak test, we know that several other tests have been conducted in Senegal, Egypt, and Ghana besides Algeria which was included in the initial test. All the tests, with exemption of Ghana, support the initial MRI research results. Now why was Ghana result different? Take a look at selection of sample for that study. The researchers accepted the age submitted by Ghana footballers and used that to compare the test results and it was all over the place. The question is: Were the ages submitted by those players accurate in the first place?


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

_________________
We have been brainwashed by the Premier League that it's the best in the world. Nonsense. It's the best brand
Roy Keane: ITV 02/25/14

He says that we are currently "brainwashed" into believing that the Premier League is the best competition in the world, and that we are now a long way off dominating the Champions League again.
Gary Neville: Mirror: 12/23/14

I think Spain’s by far the best league.
Scholes. UK Guardian 9/6/16


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 9:22 pm
Posts: 44522
felarey wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
felarey wrote:
Cellular wrote:
folem wrote:
15 out of 40 Nigeria U-17 players fail age test

Quote:
At least 15 out of 40 players of the Nigerian Under-17 squad chosen for the African Cup of Nations tournament (AFCON) qualifiers have failed a mandatory age test.

The Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) tests revealed that some players were said to be much older than the required age limit.

Score Nigeria revealed that the 15 players have been expelled from the Golden Eaglets squad with another batch of 15 players set to undergo age tests before replacing the players who failed the age test.

Last year a similar incident occurred when as many as 23 players failed the age test that resulted in the Golden Eaglets failing to qualify for the 2017 Under-17 AFCON tournament in Rwanda.

The seven-team qualifying tournament taking place in September is to be held in Niger with only the tournament winners advancing to the AFCON tournament in Tanzania next year.

In 2016, Nigeria's 2015 FIFA Under-17 World Cup squad - who won the tournament for a record fifth time - had 26 of their 60 tested players disqualified after failing a mandatory MRI screening.

Only two of their starting XI remained available to play after the 26 players were deemed ineligible.

MRI scans can determine whether a player is below 17 with 99% accuracy.


We are just insincere people. My eye don open well well since moving back.

ZERO accountability. From a coach who still has his job after being caught on tape collecting a bribe to coaches and football officials who perpetrate this fraud.

TXJ is right. They choose players who are able to beat the test. Has nothing to do with their real age.

It's much worse, they choose players passed eligible by those interpreting the tests.



I guess they do that for CAF as well or how do they get past CAF?

In the past some have passed the Nigeria one and failed the CAF one. Players kicked out close to tournament start date.
I bet if we subject the 25 of 40 that passed to CAF, there will be failures and potentially there may be passes among the 15 failed. Elite footballers good enough to be considered for the national team tend to be well known household names in their communities and they play football outdoors where people see them. They are often used as mercenaries representing different teams and have a track record. Anyone that has lived the nigerian experience knows this. My senior in secondary school Sunday Ominu failed to get into Kanu's '93 set. His age wasn't in question.


I cant imagine that anyone can pass after failing if the test is administered properly. Your bones are either fused or not, you cant go back and "unfuse" your bones.

_________________
We have been brainwashed by the Premier League that it's the best in the world. Nonsense. It's the best brand
Roy Keane: ITV 02/25/14

He says that we are currently "brainwashed" into believing that the Premier League is the best competition in the world, and that we are now a long way off dominating the Champions League again.
Gary Neville: Mirror: 12/23/14

I think Spain’s by far the best league.
Scholes. UK Guardian 9/6/16


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:32 pm
Posts: 28253
Even if this thread reaches thousand pages I'm not going to say a word. Doh! :ohmy:

_________________
Super Eagles - Fly Above The Storm!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:35 pm
Posts: 36025
Location: Somewhere
metalalloy wrote:
Damunk wrote:
So, someone please tell us how a coach would deliberately choose players they think can beat the MRI test.
What are the criteria that they have perfected? The medical world would like to know. :idea:

What are the characteristics that a player would show to indicate to a coach that he could 'beat' the MRI?

Shortness?
Tallness?
Heaviness of voice?
Thickness of wrists and ankles?
Penile size?
Scrotal rugosity?
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

This is one of those theories that rapidly gains popularity but falls down on even a little scrutiny.
Until someone can suggest what the coaches might be using as a yardstick, the suggestion that this is what they do sounds preposterous. I don't even think consultant orthopedic surgeons or consultant radiologists could pick them out just by looking at them or watching them run around with a football. :idea:

That the coaches are choosing players they know or suspect might be overage is one thing.
But that they deliberately choose players they think can beat the MRI is something else.

Surely, I'm oviously missing something here, but I'm open to new knowledge.


You are not missing anything.


No...he is missing something....I have highlighted it for him. Why is it so hard to accept that in a win-U17-at-all-costs environment, where coaches quite often know if they are fielding overage players, the highlighted is not feasible? Isn't it quite common for 'official' age-mates to refer to "peers" who are actually within the age bracket as "young boys"? Remember Okocha referring to a 24-yr old Osaze during ANC 2004 as a "small boy"? :taunt: :taunt: :taunt: :taunt: Remember a 22-yr old Osaze was taken to the 2002 WC as an alternate/youth player/observer, in a team that had an 18-yr old Opabunmi featuring, and a 21-yr old Aghahowa as the star? No, not that a 17 yr old cannot be better than a 22 yr old, but maybe my memory is faulty, but I recollect Osaze went to the WC as a "junior player"....

_________________
Image
AFCON 2015 sweet o
Barren for 35 yrs no good o

New member and Titled Chief, Distant Gunners Consortium.
"This is an island surrounded by water, big water, ocean water."


Last edited by Chief Ogbunigwe on Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:35 pm
Posts: 36025
Location: Somewhere
metalalloy wrote:
felarey wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
felarey wrote:
Cellular wrote:
folem wrote:
15 out of 40 Nigeria U-17 players fail age test

Quote:
At least 15 out of 40 players of the Nigerian Under-17 squad chosen for the African Cup of Nations tournament (AFCON) qualifiers have failed a mandatory age test.

The Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) tests revealed that some players were said to be much older than the required age limit.

Score Nigeria revealed that the 15 players have been expelled from the Golden Eaglets squad with another batch of 15 players set to undergo age tests before replacing the players who failed the age test.

Last year a similar incident occurred when as many as 23 players failed the age test that resulted in the Golden Eaglets failing to qualify for the 2017 Under-17 AFCON tournament in Rwanda.

The seven-team qualifying tournament taking place in September is to be held in Niger with only the tournament winners advancing to the AFCON tournament in Tanzania next year.

In 2016, Nigeria's 2015 FIFA Under-17 World Cup squad - who won the tournament for a record fifth time - had 26 of their 60 tested players disqualified after failing a mandatory MRI screening.

Only two of their starting XI remained available to play after the 26 players were deemed ineligible.

MRI scans can determine whether a player is below 17 with 99% accuracy.


We are just insincere people. My eye don open well well since moving back.

ZERO accountability. From a coach who still has his job after being caught on tape collecting a bribe to coaches and football officials who perpetrate this fraud.

TXJ is right. They choose players who are able to beat the test. Has nothing to do with their real age.

It's much worse, they choose players passed eligible by those interpreting the tests.



I guess they do that for CAF as well or how do they get past CAF?

In the past some have passed the Nigeria one and failed the CAF one. Players kicked out close to tournament start date.
I bet if we subject the 25 of 40 that passed to CAF, there will be failures and potentially there may be passes among the 15 failed. Elite footballers good enough to be considered for the national team tend to be well known household names in their communities and they play football outdoors where people see them. They are often used as mercenaries representing different teams and have a track record. Anyone that has lived the nigerian experience knows this. My senior in secondary school Sunday Ominu failed to get into Kanu's '93 set. His age wasn't in question.


I cant imagine that anyone can pass after failing if the test is administered properly. Your bones are either fused or not, you cant go back and "unfuse" your bones.


says something about the test, isnt it?

_________________
Image
AFCON 2015 sweet o
Barren for 35 yrs no good o

New member and Titled Chief, Distant Gunners Consortium.
"This is an island surrounded by water, big water, ocean water."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 9:22 pm
Posts: 44522
Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:

You have helped me make my point. If we all agree that the MRI test is flawed, we can live with it being the best option ONLY on condition that the powers are not exploiting the flaws to cheat. That is my whole point. I have no issues going for the only feasible option if only we were confident that the selection and verification processes are conducted in GOOD FAITH.


Reports state that typically, complete fusion is unlikely to occur prior to 17 years of age, with an accuracy at greater than 99 percent.

https://www.thenational.ae/sport/use-of ... e-1.479733

If complete fusion is unlikely to occur before age 17, it makes sense to test for those players who haven't achieved complete fusion and rely on that fact that they are most likely under 17. Again, I go back to the point I made in the previous MRI thread, are you guys stating that Nigeria has an abundance of talented adults older than age 17, with a degree of fusion that is below Grade 6 sitting around that the NFF can tap into in order to make up a team? Whie i don't discount the possibility that that the NFF could be trying to include older players, and relying on a successful MRI test as cover, they would need to find a ton of these "needles in haystack" overaged individuals to make out a team of 23. The NFF only started conducting the MRI tests when the camp had been whittled down to 60 players, and could only afford to test 40 of them at the moment.

_________________
We have been brainwashed by the Premier League that it's the best in the world. Nonsense. It's the best brand
Roy Keane: ITV 02/25/14

He says that we are currently "brainwashed" into believing that the Premier League is the best competition in the world, and that we are now a long way off dominating the Champions League again.
Gary Neville: Mirror: 12/23/14

I think Spain’s by far the best league.
Scholes. UK Guardian 9/6/16


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 9:22 pm
Posts: 44522
Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:

Quote:
I cant imagine that anyone can pass after failing if the test is administered properly. Your bones are either fused or not, you cant go back and "unfuse" your bones.


says something about the test, isnt it?


of course.The test is not infallible, but it's about the best tool we have at the moment until something better is adopted. Mere documentation like birth certificates can also be doctored and are not infallible. I will always err on the side of biological markers for age determination (with all its current inherent flaws) over birth certificates.

_________________
We have been brainwashed by the Premier League that it's the best in the world. Nonsense. It's the best brand
Roy Keane: ITV 02/25/14

He says that we are currently "brainwashed" into believing that the Premier League is the best competition in the world, and that we are now a long way off dominating the Champions League again.
Gary Neville: Mirror: 12/23/14

I think Spain’s by far the best league.
Scholes. UK Guardian 9/6/16


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 9:22 pm
Posts: 44522
Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
metalalloy wrote:
Damunk wrote:
So, someone please tell us how a coach would deliberately choose players they think can beat the MRI test.
What are the criteria that they have perfected? The medical world would like to know. :idea:

What are the characteristics that a player would show to indicate to a coach that he could 'beat' the MRI?

Shortness?
Tallness?
Heaviness of voice?
Thickness of wrists and ankles?
Penile size?
Scrotal rugosity?
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

This is one of those theories that rapidly gains popularity but falls down on even a little scrutiny.
Until someone can suggest what the coaches might be using as a yardstick, the suggestion that this is what they do sounds preposterous. I don't even think consultant orthopedic surgeons or consultant radiologists could pick them out just by looking at them or watching them run around with a football. :idea:

That the coaches are choosing players they know or suspect might be overage is one thing.
But that they deliberately choose players they think can beat the MRI is something else.

Surely, I'm oviously missing something here, but I'm open to new knowledge.


You are not missing anything.


No...he is missing something....I have highlighted it for him. Why is it so hard to accept that in a win-U17-at-all-costs environment, where coaches quite often know if they are fielding overage players, the highlighted is not feasible? Isn't it quite common for 'official' age-mates to refer to "peers" who are actually within the age bracket as "young boys"? Remember Okocha referring to a 24-yr old Osaze during ANC 2004 as a "small boy"? :taunt: :taunt: :taunt: :taunt: Remember a 22-yr old Osaze was taken to the 2002 WC as an alternate/youth player/observer, in a team that had an 18-yr old Opabunmi featuring, and a 21-yr old Aghahowa as the star? No, not that a 17 yr old cannot be better than a 22 yr old, but maybe my memory is faulty, but I recollect Osaze went to the WC as a "junior player"....



I accept that it is definitely feasible that they would try, but i go back to my previous post that the would need to screen a ton of overage players to find the 23 that would "pass" the MRI test by not showing complete fusion. There is no evidence that the NFF is conducting such mass screening exercises, they simply do not have the funds to do so. My suspicion is that the tests they are conducting right now is to eliminate those who are definitely past grade 6 and borderline cases of grade5-grade6 kids who currently may "pass" the test now but would most likely achieve complete fusion by the time they are tested again by CAF. That is the prudent thing to do.

_________________
We have been brainwashed by the Premier League that it's the best in the world. Nonsense. It's the best brand
Roy Keane: ITV 02/25/14

He says that we are currently "brainwashed" into believing that the Premier League is the best competition in the world, and that we are now a long way off dominating the Champions League again.
Gary Neville: Mirror: 12/23/14

I think Spain’s by far the best league.
Scholes. UK Guardian 9/6/16


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 9:22 pm
Posts: 44522
Enugu II wrote:
Cellular wrote:
Prof., not to delve into an area that you are an expert on, but if there's a test that has 37.5 percent failure rate (15 out of 30 failing), should such a test be used or considered a fair test? There's something going on here. Maybe FIFA like someone pointed out should use the test to test players in the West to see if the failure rate is that high. I don't believe in science, that they will adopt the use of such a test.


Cell,

They test players from the West at the tournament but do not release the result n any test on any country. Instead, they claim confidentiality and the use of results to consolidate their research. I suspect that some of those players (from the West) fail the test. Bear in mind that the research that led to the implementation of MRI had 35% of U17 players fail the test at a FIFA tournament. One can presume all 35% could not have come from Africa and Asia.

TBH, what I think is that FIFA is in a catch-22. They want to stamp out cheating in areas where birth certificates may not be available or are alterable (i.e. Africa and Asia). This is why they introduced the MRI but cannot simply apply MRI in ONLY those areas without a political issue of discrimination. Thus, FIFA collects samples from all participants at the FIFA tournaments but then does not release the results because it may lead to disqualification of players from the West who fail the test but have birth certificates that show that they are eligible. FIFA cannot possibly disqualify such players when the birth certificate is in fact more accurate and precise than an MRI test.

However, in places like Asia and Africa, the Confederations enforce the MRI to stamp out the cheating. In those places, the birth certificate is not a trusted documentation. Even if a player has them, they cannot be used over an MRI considering the environment. I presume that for Nigeria to obtain the status of using the birth certificates like the West they must FIRST convince FIFA of the authenticity of documents coming from Nigeria. We are in the current predicament because we failed to do this during the era of the use of passports.

Cell, also note that 15 did not fail the MRI test outright. In my interpretation, only seven failed outright, the others were those who graded 5 or 6 on the test increasing the high likelihood of failure in the near future. They are simply excluded because they may fail in the test at a later date (e.g. CAF and FIFA tournaments).


prof, do you have a source for this?

_________________
We have been brainwashed by the Premier League that it's the best in the world. Nonsense. It's the best brand
Roy Keane: ITV 02/25/14

He says that we are currently "brainwashed" into believing that the Premier League is the best competition in the world, and that we are now a long way off dominating the Champions League again.
Gary Neville: Mirror: 12/23/14

I think Spain’s by far the best league.
Scholes. UK Guardian 9/6/16


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:39 am
Posts: 16509
Location: Super Eagles Homeland
metalalloy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Cellular wrote:
Prof., not to delve into an area that you are an expert on, but if there's a test that has 37.5 percent failure rate (15 out of 30 failing), should such a test be used or considered a fair test? There's something going on here. Maybe FIFA like someone pointed out should use the test to test players in the West to see if the failure rate is that high. I don't believe in science, that they will adopt the use of such a test.


Cell,

They test players from the West at the tournament but do not release the result n any test on any country. Instead, they claim confidentiality and the use of results to consolidate their research. I suspect that some of those players (from the West) fail the test. Bear in mind that the research that led to the implementation of MRI had 35% of U17 players fail the test at a FIFA tournament. One can presume all 35% could not have come from Africa and Asia.

TBH, what I think is that FIFA is in a catch-22. They want to stamp out cheating in areas where birth certificates may not be available or are alterable (i.e. Africa and Asia). This is why they introduced the MRI but cannot simply apply MRI in ONLY those areas without a political issue of discrimination. Thus, FIFA collects samples from all participants at the FIFA tournaments but then does not release the results because it may lead to disqualification of players from the West who fail the test but have birth certificates that show that they are eligible. FIFA cannot possibly disqualify such players when the birth certificate is in fact more accurate and precise than an MRI test.

However, in places like Asia and Africa, the Confederations enforce the MRI to stamp out the cheating. In those places, the birth certificate is not a trusted documentation. Even if a player has them, they cannot be used over an MRI considering the environment. I presume that for Nigeria to obtain the status of using the birth certificates like the West they must FIRST convince FIFA of the authenticity of documents coming from Nigeria. We are in the current predicament because we failed to do this during the era of the use of passports.

Cell, also note that 15 did not fail the MRI test outright. In my interpretation, only seven failed outright, the others were those who graded 5 or 6 on the test increasing the high likelihood of failure in the near future. They are simply excluded because they may fail in the test at a later date (e.g. CAF and FIFA tournaments).


prof, do you have a source for this?


Metalloy,

Yes, one of them is actually from what The Jackal posted in an earlier thread on CE (The failures in grades 5 and 6) -- http://forum.cybereagles.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=290601 (See the particular post from The Jackal that refers to results from 5A and 5B). The second is a post made in a WhatsApp group to which some members of CE also contribute (The number that failed the test outright was broken down by a sports journalist privy to details of the test results. In fact some failures had nothing to do with MRI but with anomalies in passports submitted by some players).

_________________
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 9:22 pm
Posts: 44522
Enugu II wrote:

Metalloy,

Yes, one of them is actually from what The Jackal posted in an earlier thread on CE (The failures in grades 5 and 6) -- http://forum.cybereagles.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=290601 (See the particular post from The Jackal that refers to results from 5A and 5B). The second is a post made in a WhatsApp group to which some members of CE also contribute (The number that failed the test outright was broken down by a sports journalist privy to details of the test results. In fact some failures had nothing to do with MRI but with anomalies in passports submitted by some players).



Thank you. I missed that thread.

_________________
We have been brainwashed by the Premier League that it's the best in the world. Nonsense. It's the best brand
Roy Keane: ITV 02/25/14

He says that we are currently "brainwashed" into believing that the Premier League is the best competition in the world, and that we are now a long way off dominating the Champions League again.
Gary Neville: Mirror: 12/23/14

I think Spain’s by far the best league.
Scholes. UK Guardian 9/6/16


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:18 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:35 pm
Posts: 36025
Location: Somewhere
metalalloy wrote:
Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:

You have helped me make my point. If we all agree that the MRI test is flawed, we can live with it being the best option ONLY on condition that the powers are not exploiting the flaws to cheat. That is my whole point. I have no issues going for the only feasible option if only we were confident that the selection and verification processes are conducted in GOOD FAITH.


Reports state that typically, complete fusion is unlikely to occur prior to 17 years of age, with an accuracy at greater than 99 percent.

https://www.thenational.ae/sport/use-of ... e-1.479733

If complete fusion is unlikely to occur before age 17, it makes sense to test for those players who haven't achieved complete fusion and rely on that fact that they are most likely under 17. Again, I go back to the point I made in the previous MRI thread, are you guys stating that Nigeria has an abundance of talented adults older than age 17, with a degree of fusion that is below Grade 6 sitting around that the NFF can tap into in order to make up a team? Whie i don't discount the possibility that that the NFF could be trying to include older players, and relying on a successful MRI test as cover, they would need to find a ton of these "needles in haystack" overaged individuals to make out a team of 23. The NFF only started conducting the MRI tests when the camp had been whittled down to 60 players, and could only afford to test 40 of them at the moment.


I hear what you are saying, but I disagree with the so-called 99% accuracy. As long as that number remains questionable, it's anyone's guess how many "overage" players have to be screened to get the desired number of candidates. Reputed academics disagree on the value/accuracy of the test. I actually challenged that study when it first came out even before I knew about the potential controversy it would generate among scientists in the field (we debated with Damunk, who even wrote the author to interrogate him :woot: :woot: :woot: ).

My current position is based on a combination of the highly likely inaccuracy of the test, and my personal suspicions that unscrupulous folks could be gaming the system. I remain very skeptical until further evidence supports this testing.

_________________
Image
AFCON 2015 sweet o
Barren for 35 yrs no good o

New member and Titled Chief, Distant Gunners Consortium.
"This is an island surrounded by water, big water, ocean water."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:35 pm
Posts: 36025
Location: Somewhere
Metal:

Lets look out this for a minute.... 15 of 40 failed. If the test TRULY has a 99% accuracy, that means approximately 37% of the candidates are overaged.... Isn't it alarming that close to 40% of candidates showed up with dodgy documents and claims? Again, if we believe the MRI, should we be concerned about the sheer number of folks willing to cheat, as well as their enablers? Unless we are saying that people who pass are 99% likely to be U-17, while those who failed may or may not be >17, but....too bad for them.

_________________
Image
AFCON 2015 sweet o
Barren for 35 yrs no good o

New member and Titled Chief, Distant Gunners Consortium.
"This is an island surrounded by water, big water, ocean water."


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 104 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: eaglo, Google [Bot], Its a Goal, oloye and 15 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group