U17 AFCON: Nigeria vs Ghana...

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TonyTheTigerKiller
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Re: U17 AFCON: Nigeria vs Ghana...

Post by TonyTheTigerKiller »

txj wrote:The complaints here remind me of Europeans complaining about the allocation of world cup slots....

As long as your youth football is developing, being at the FIFA U-17 world cup, though important, is secondary...
For European countries, it might be secondary but for African countries, it is critical. It is the most assured way to gauge the success of our youth development programs. Without the U17 World Cup, there might be no Mikels or Nachos or Nwakalis. All of the aforementioned players would most likely have languished in our local leagues :!: :!: :!:


Cheers.
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Re: U17 AFCON: Nigeria vs Ghana...

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TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
txj wrote:The complaints here remind me of Europeans complaining about the allocation of world cup slots....

As long as your youth football is developing, being at the FIFA U-17 world cup, though important, is secondary...
For European countries, it might be secondary but for African countries, it is critical. It is the most assured way to gauge the success of our youth development programs. Without the U17 World Cup, there might be no Mikels or Nachos or Nwakalis. All of the aforementioned players would most likely have languished in our local leagues :!: :!: :!:


Cheers.
You’re echoing txj’s point though unintentionally. The work of development falls on our league and not foreign clubs. A properly functioning league that churns out well developed youth players reduces over reliance on u17 qualification as a means to showcase said youth players. I agree with him with regards to where our focus should lie notwithstanding also acknowledging the unfairness of the new qualification system.
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Re: U17 AFCON: Nigeria vs Ghana...

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TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
txj wrote:The complaints here remind me of Europeans complaining about the allocation of world cup slots....

As long as your youth football is developing, being at the FIFA U-17 world cup, though important, is secondary...
For European countries, it might be secondary but for African countries, it is critical. It is the most assured way to gauge the success of our youth development programs. Without the U17 World Cup, there might be no Mikels or Nachos or Nwakalis. All of the aforementioned players would most likely have languished in our local leagues :!: :!: :!:


Cheers.
This kind of mentality is why people age CHEAT. If you believe that the ONLY way to play professionally abroad is through a FIFA U17 competition, is it a surprise when a 32-year-old man claims to be 16 and the people around him all act as enablers? In their minds, they'll justify their actions as they're seeing it as a do or die situation.

If we're not relying so much on these youth competitions (which has shown no evidence of improving the SE) maybe, we'll put more emphasis on what really matters, senior football. In fact, the prevalence of very average former youth team players in the SE shows a flaw in the system. We're increasingly having to go abroad to recruit players developed in other leagues because we're not producing decent players at home with our current overreliance on youth teams.
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Re: U17 AFCON: Nigeria vs Ghana...

Post by TonyTheTigerKiller »

green4life wrote:
TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
txj wrote:The complaints here remind me of Europeans complaining about the allocation of world cup slots....

As long as your youth football is developing, being at the FIFA U-17 world cup, though important, is secondary...
For European countries, it might be secondary but for African countries, it is critical. It is the most assured way to gauge the success of our youth development programs. Without the U17 World Cup, there might be no Mikels or Nachos or Nwakalis. All of the aforementioned players would most likely have languished in our local leagues :!: :!: :!:


Cheers.
You’re echoing txj’s point though unintentionally. The work of development falls on our league and not foreign clubs. A properly functioning league that churns out well developed youth players reduces over reliance on u17 qualification as a means to showcase said youth players. I agree with him with regards to where our focus should lie notwithstanding also acknowledging the unfairness of the new qualification system.
No I’m not and you’re way off base. If our youth system wasn’t functioning properly, our players wouldn’t be noticed by foreign clubs... and by the way, our youth system does not have to resemble or mimick the Europeans’ which is mostly club based. Our youth system is mostly independent of the professional clubs and there’s nothing wrong with that. The fact that our league is not attractive to our good young players is a different matter and has little to do with their initial development. Indeed, because of the state of our league, it is imperative that we play as many youth tournaments as we possibly can :!:


Cheers.
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Re: U17 AFCON: Nigeria vs Ghana...

Post by TonyTheTigerKiller »

Orion wrote:
TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
txj wrote:The complaints here remind me of Europeans complaining about the allocation of world cup slots....

As long as your youth football is developing, being at the FIFA U-17 world cup, though important, is secondary...
For European countries, it might be secondary but for African countries, it is critical. It is the most assured way to gauge the success of our youth development programs. Without the U17 World Cup, there might be no Mikels or Nachos or Nwakalis. All of the aforementioned players would most likely have languished in our local leagues :!: :!: :!:


Cheers.
This kind of mentality is why people age CHEAT. If you believe that the ONLY way to play professionally abroad is through a FIFA U17 competition, is it a surprise when a 32-year-old man claims to be 16 and the people around him all act as enablers? In their minds, they'll justify their actions as they're seeing it as a do or die situation.

If we're not relying so much on these youth competitions (which has shown no evidence of improving the SE) maybe, we'll put more emphasis on what really matters, senior football. In fact, the prevalence of very average former youth team players in the SE shows a flaw in the system. We're increasingly having to go abroad to recruit players developed in other leagues because we're not producing decent players at home with our current overreliance on youth teams.
You are talking arrant nonsense. What kind of mentality caused Kemi Adeosun and all those other forgers to cheat? People cheat because they’re inclined to, not because of some youth tournament. In any case, I believe that the age cheating issue is severely overblown because people like you would never accept the possibility that our kids can beat European kids in a tournament without age cheating. Not so long ago, an American born Nigerian kid failed the MRI test and there was a lot of furor on this forum regarding his rejection. Isn’t it rather eye opening that you are willing to give foreign born kids the benefit of the doubt but not your own kids? You are a major part of the problem :!:


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Re: U17 AFCON: Nigeria vs Ghana...

Post by txj »

TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
green4life wrote:
TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
txj wrote:The complaints here remind me of Europeans complaining about the allocation of world cup slots....

As long as your youth football is developing, being at the FIFA U-17 world cup, though important, is secondary...
For European countries, it might be secondary but for African countries, it is critical. It is the most assured way to gauge the success of our youth development programs. Without the U17 World Cup, there might be no Mikels or Nachos or Nwakalis. All of the aforementioned players would most likely have languished in our local leagues :!: :!: :!:


Cheers.
You’re echoing txj’s point though unintentionally. The work of development falls on our league and not foreign clubs. A properly functioning league that churns out well developed youth players reduces over reliance on u17 qualification as a means to showcase said youth players. I agree with him with regards to where our focus should lie notwithstanding also acknowledging the unfairness of the new qualification system.
No I’m not and you’re way off base. If our youth system wasn’t functioning properly, our players wouldn’t be noticed by foreign clubs... and by the way, our youth system does not have to resemble or mimick the Europeans’ which is mostly club based. Our youth system is mostly independent of the professional clubs and there’s nothing wrong with that. The fact that our league is not attractive to our good young players is a different matter and has little to do with their initial development. Indeed, because of the state of our league, it is imperative that we play as many youth tournaments as we possibly can :!:


Cheers.

Independent or not, we shouldn't need a FIFA tournament to affirm sustainable development of youth football. In any case, Nigeria is not the only country with youth teams independent of domestic clubs, which btw is not necessarily a good thing.

Fully functional professional clubs, with thriving youth teams, are the basis of any successful domestic game..And the lack of this, is precisely a factor behind the poor initial development of our young players.

What we have as youth clubs are largely entities of various descriptions which exist to sell players...
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: U17 AFCON: Nigeria vs Ghana...

Post by TonyTheTigerKiller »

txj wrote:
TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
green4life wrote:
TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
txj wrote:The complaints here remind me of Europeans complaining about the allocation of world cup slots....

As long as your youth football is developing, being at the FIFA U-17 world cup, though important, is secondary...
For European countries, it might be secondary but for African countries, it is critical. It is the most assured way to gauge the success of our youth development programs. Without the U17 World Cup, there might be no Mikels or Nachos or Nwakalis. All of the aforementioned players would most likely have languished in our local leagues :!: :!: :!:


Cheers.
You’re echoing txj’s point though unintentionally. The work of development falls on our league and not foreign clubs. A properly functioning league that churns out well developed youth players reduces over reliance on u17 qualification as a means to showcase said youth players. I agree with him with regards to where our focus should lie notwithstanding also acknowledging the unfairness of the new qualification system.
No I’m not and you’re way off base. If our youth system wasn’t functioning properly, our players wouldn’t be noticed by foreign clubs... and by the way, our youth system does not have to resemble or mimick the Europeans’ which is mostly club based. Our youth system is mostly independent of the professional clubs and there’s nothing wrong with that. The fact that our league is not attractive to our good young players is a different matter and has little to do with their initial development. Indeed, because of the state of our league, it is imperative that we play as many youth tournaments as we possibly can :!:


Cheers.

Independent or not, we shouldn't need a FIFA tournament to affirm sustainable development of youth football. In any case, Nigeria is not the only country with youth teams independent of domestic clubs, which btw is not necessarily a good thing.

Fully functional professional clubs, with thriving youth teams, are the basis of any successful domestic game..And the lack of this, is precisely a factor behind the poor initial development of our young players.

What we have as youth clubs are largely entities of various descriptions which exist to sell players...
I have news for you. We do not have fully functional professional clubs with thriving youth teams but we still need to go on developing our youth football. Our current youth system may not be perfect or the best but that’s what’s available to us in the face of our quandary and we’re making it work. Given the absence of your fully functional professional clubs, should we stop developing our youth football altogether? I’m sure even you will agree that’s absurd. As it stands, we do need something to measure the progress of our development against and these international youth tournaments are all that’s available to us right now :!: :!: :!:


Cheers.
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Re: U17 AFCON: Nigeria vs Ghana...

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TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
folem wrote:
TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
Enugu II wrote:I am just surprised that CE suddenly woke up on tis matter. I wrote about this new format and how it disadvantages West Africa at the CAF election time but no one, at CE, even cared to discuss it.
I recall expressing my total disgust about the situation either in your post or another but you know that everything in Nigeria is a popularity contest so that when you finger a popular person like Pinnick for blame, his supporters who are numerous either turn on you or avoid the discussion like a plague. As long as we continue to favor style over substance, I’m afraid Nigeria will continue to enjoy only fleeting moments of success in international competition. As for the premise that this format will improve the overall standard of African football, you and I both know that’s hogwash. You can’t improve the standard of football in Africa by sectionalizing qualification for tournaments but by expanding the scope of the tournament. Nigeria is a regular participant in the World Cup nowadays mostly because the number of participants was increased, first to 24 and then to 32. Why can’t Africa learn to do things properly :?: :!:


Cheers.
If there is no sectionalizing, Africa may not even be at World Cup.
Normally, I do not respond to ill concieved comments such as yours but I need to set you straight on this point. Merely being in the World Cup did not improve African football. Playing other top African teams and realizing the need to develop grass roots football is what helped certain countries to improve. The introduction of youth football led to international scouting and the further development of young African players. Remember that Africa, despite being in the World Cup since the early 20th century, did not make any inroads in the World Cup until the likes of Algeria and Cameroon showed up in 1982. Those teams were able to compete because of the work they put into developing their football. You can’t cut corners in developing football merely by decreeing that certain teams be exposed to international competition. It didn’t work for Egypt and Morocco. It wasn’t until their was lively competition in African football that we started to see reasonably good African teams. In South America, they don’t have World Cup qualifying groups, just one big pot. Any South American country that has World Cup aspirations has to go through the Brazils and the Argentinas. That’s why every South American team you play at the World Cup is as tough as nails. At the last World Cup, African teams, even though they did not advance beyond the first round, weren’t so easy to navigate. Africa is slowly getting there but we must continue on the path of grassroots development and unrestricted competition rather than zoning out qualification for premium tournaments :!:


Cheers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_n ... _World_Cup

Tunisia made inroads in 1978 and that was only Africa's fourth appearance.

The current South America qualifying format just began from the 1998 WC qualifiers. Peru in 2018 wasn't tough as nails though. Do you want zoning removed from WC too?
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Re: U17 AFCON: Nigeria vs Ghana...

Post by txj »

TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
txj wrote:
TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
green4life wrote:
TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
txj wrote:The complaints here remind me of Europeans complaining about the allocation of world cup slots....

As long as your youth football is developing, being at the FIFA U-17 world cup, though important, is secondary...
For European countries, it might be secondary but for African countries, it is critical. It is the most assured way to gauge the success of our youth development programs. Without the U17 World Cup, there might be no Mikels or Nachos or Nwakalis. All of the aforementioned players would most likely have languished in our local leagues :!: :!: :!:


Cheers.
You’re echoing txj’s point though unintentionally. The work of development falls on our league and not foreign clubs. A properly functioning league that churns out well developed youth players reduces over reliance on u17 qualification as a means to showcase said youth players. I agree with him with regards to where our focus should lie notwithstanding also acknowledging the unfairness of the new qualification system.
No I’m not and you’re way off base. If our youth system wasn’t functioning properly, our players wouldn’t be noticed by foreign clubs... and by the way, our youth system does not have to resemble or mimick the Europeans’ which is mostly club based. Our youth system is mostly independent of the professional clubs and there’s nothing wrong with that. The fact that our league is not attractive to our good young players is a different matter and has little to do with their initial development. Indeed, because of the state of our league, it is imperative that we play as many youth tournaments as we possibly can :!:


Cheers.

Independent or not, we shouldn't need a FIFA tournament to affirm sustainable development of youth football. In any case, Nigeria is not the only country with youth teams independent of domestic clubs, which btw is not necessarily a good thing.

Fully functional professional clubs, with thriving youth teams, are the basis of any successful domestic game..And the lack of this, is precisely a factor behind the poor initial development of our young players.

What we have as youth clubs are largely entities of various descriptions which exist to sell players...
I have news for you. We do not have fully functional professional clubs with thriving youth teams but we still need to go on developing our youth football. Our current youth system may not be perfect or the best but that’s what’s available to us in the face of our quandary and we’re making it work. Given the absence of your fully functional professional clubs, should we stop developing our youth football altogether? I’m sure even you will agree that’s absurd. As it stands, we do need something to measure the progress of our development against and these international youth tournaments are all that’s available to us right now :!: :!: :!:


Cheers.
Youth development aligned with fully functional pro clubs is the ideal, but not the only solution. Independent youth clubs have a place in the game and they do exist side by side with club youth teams elsewhere, esp in S. America.

But the greater point here is development and how to measure progress. In youth football the real measure of success is ability of players to break thru to senior, first team football. The FIFA tournaments are good, but it is not the preeminent measure...

What we have is a youth system focussed on two things: international marketing of players and winning youth tournaments, with both inextricably linked...

That is why we still end up cheating...
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp

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