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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:40 am 
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I am really miffed by the consistent denial of stark health statistics in Nigeria simply to prove a point of argument on the U17 soccer program. This makes no sense and this is the reason that i point to Txj and others who continue to deny reality of the Nigerian situation. Below is data produced by Nigeria's National Demographic Survey of 2013:

https://dhsprogram.com/pubs/pdf/fr293/fr293.pdf

There is a trove of data in the doc above but I urge you to start on p. 135 where it clearly points you to the reality of children born outside a health facility. This is reality. It is staggering. It is worse in some of the far Northern states than it is in the South, but the fact is that a greater number of 6 million estimated births each year is done outside a health facility. There is no denying that fact whether you look at statistics from Nigerian agencies or international agencies.

We must understand that the experiences of most of us who have access to the Internet is not typical of the experiences of the vast majority of Nigerians. Note that according to many health care experts, even those born in health facilities do not even have recorded birth dates because on several cases, the attendants do not complete simple forms that they are tasked to complete. Right now there is what is called a Task Shifting policy set up by the Nigerian government to allow traditional midwives to work in more hygiene conditions to deliver several of these kids. The first time a kid's age is recorded is either at an immunization center (if their parents bring them) or at school. Even then, the age is a guess by the parent based on how much they can estimate the age based on major occurrences at birth time. That is the reality. Today, as much as an estimated 10 million Nigerian children are defined as out of school. These are realities. Lets quit denying the obvious.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:15 am 
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EII,

A lot of people on cyber eagles are Ajebutters who grew up in mostly urban areas and have had the opportunity to travelled out of the country. They have access to lot of the best of the very scarce amenities and infrastructure in Nigeria. They mistakenly believe that that is the way most people in Nigeria live and have access to the minimum of Amenities.

The stark reality is once you step out of those Urban areas, the basic infasctural needs are just not met. There is also a very large part of the population in these Urban areas also who do not have access to a lot Infrastructure. The massive rural to urban Migration in the 3 decades coupled with our high rate of population growth puts a massive strain on the Little infrastructure that's available.

Now if you present them these statistics, most refuse to believe and others just don't understand it. I have seen with my own 2 eyes on CE people got upset over a report on Jane Fonda who went to Nigeria and talked about the massive teenage pregnancy rate and they all were screaming at her saying that Nigeria is not America and teen pregnancy was a rarity in Nigeria. Mind you, she was quoting UN statistics. And these are educated people with college degrees doubting these statistics.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:47 am 
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JACKAL wrote:
EII,

A lot of people on cyber eagles are Ajebutters who grew up in mostly urban areas and have had the opportunity to travelled out of the country. They have access to lot of the best of the very scarce amenities and infrastructure in Nigeria. They mistakenly believe that that is the way most people in Nigeria live and have access to the minimum of Amenities.

The stark reality is once you step out of those Urban areas, the basic infasctural needs are just not met. There is also a very large part of the population in these Urban areas also who do not have access to a lot Infrastructure. The massive rural to urban Migration in the 3 decades coupled with our high rate of population growth puts a massive strain on the Little infrastructure that's available.
Now if you present them these statistics, most refuse to believe and others just don't understand it. I have seen with my own 2 eyes on CE people got upset over a report on Jane Fonda who went to Nigeria and talked about the massive teenage pregnancy rate and they all were screaming at her saying that Nigeria is not America and teen pregnancy was a rarity in Nigeria. Mind you, she was quoting UN statistics. And these are educated people with college degrees doubting these statistics.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:07 am 
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EII, et al. Isn't it obvious? The statistics really lend credence to the reality. What's also obvious is that our youth teams are definitely younger than in years gone by. The increase in the number of academies and their spread has also created avenues for participation at a younger age, which otherwise would not have been available.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:26 am 
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Enugu II wrote:
I am really miffed by the consistent denial of stark health statistics in Nigeria simply to prove a point of argument on the U17 soccer program. This makes no sense and this is the reason that i point to Txj and others who continue to deny reality of the Nigerian situation. Below is data produced by Nigeria's National Demographic Survey of 2013:

https://dhsprogram.com/pubs/pdf/fr293/fr293.pdf

There is a trove of data in the doc above but I urge you to start on p. 135 where it clearly points you to the reality of children born outside a health facility. This is reality. It is staggering. It is worse in some of the far Northern states than it is in the South, but the fact is that a greater number of 6 million estimated births each year is done outside a health facility. There is no denying that fact whether you look at statistics from Nigerian agencies or international agencies.

We must understand that the experiences of most of us who have access to the Internet is not typical of the experiences of the vast majority of Nigerians. Note that according to many health care experts, even those born in health facilities do not even have recorded birth dates because on several cases, the attendants do not complete simple forms that they are tasked to complete. Right now there is what is called a Task Shifting policy set up by the Nigerian government to allow traditional midwives to work in more hygiene conditions to deliver several of these kids. The first time a kid's age is recorded is either at an immunization center (if their parents bring them) or at school. Even then, the age is a guess by the parent based on how much they can estimate the age based on major occurrences at birth time. That is the reality. Today, as much as an estimated 10 million Nigerian children are defined as out of school. These are realities. Lets quit denying the obvious.

Trying to educate txj on the realities that is naija is trying to educate a ROCK. Good luck with that. He thinks we've got a handle on things like our health system. How many cancer specialist do we have in Nigeria? How many radiotherapy units do we have in Nigeria?I can go on and on. Did we meet our MGD on infant mortality rate? Suddenly he thinks because it is year 2000+ every child is issued with a birth cert. Really? Every house has electricity and every town with good roads and water.
The guy is a joke. Just stop responding to him before he gives you grey hair. There's nothing worse than someone who thinks he knows it all.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:49 pm 
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I am having difficulty agreeing with what you guys are saying and at the same time, disagreeing with you guys; therefore, I am confused. To me, we have several problems in Nigeria and indeed, in many African nations. Where does one start? How does a leader strive to solve problems when all others behind or under him/her are doing the opposite due to greed?

Yes, the birth of several children are not [properly] recorded because - as already mentioned in above by a forumer - we lack the capability to do so in many cases. To date, some women prefer to deliver at home due to lack of resources to pay for the services they will receive in a medical facility where they would have delivered the baby. From there, proper birth record [documentation] is lost.

As we are discussing this, several children are not in school because their parents has no money to pay for the levies/fees which may be imposed or asked of them by their respective schools. Certainly, we have several problems, not just the proper "childbirth documentation" and I honestly don't know how they will be solved.

By the way, is ALL THESE soccer related? Just asking!

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And the BIBLE says: The race is NOT for the swift, neither is the battle for the strong nor ... but time and chance makes them all.
Ecclesiastes 1:18: For in much wisdom is much grief and he that increases knowledge increases sorrow.


Last edited by Odas on Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:57 pm 
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Odas wrote:
I am having difficulty agreeing with what you guys are saying and at the same time, disagreeing with you guys; therefore, I am confused. To me, we have several problems in Nigeria and indeed, in many African nations. Where does one start? How does a leader strive to solve problems when all others behind or under him/her are doing the opposite due to greed?

Yes, the birth of several children are not [properly] recorded because - as already mentioned in above by a forumer - we lack the capability to do so in many cases. To date, some women prefer to deliver at home due to lack of resources to pay for the services they might receive in a medical facility where they would have delivered the baby. from there, proper birth record [documentation] is lost.

As we talk, several children are not in school because their parents has no money to pay levies/fees which may be imposed or asked of them by their schools. Certainly, we have several problems, not just the proper "childbirth documentation" and I honestly don't know how they will be solved.

By the way, is ALL THESE soccer related? Just asking!

you are always confused, because you lack basic critical thinking process and as well as not being the sharpest knife in the drawer.. hopefully you learn to improve your thinking and analyzing skills ASAP... I will-like for you to be a role model some day

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:02 pm 
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Bigpokey24 wrote:
Odas wrote:
I am having difficulty agreeing with what you guys are saying and at the same time, disagreeing with you guys; therefore, I am confused. To me, we have several problems in Nigeria and indeed, in many African nations. Where does one start? How does a leader strive to solve problems when all others behind or under him/her are doing the opposite due to greed?

Yes, the birth of several children are not [properly] recorded because - as already mentioned in above by a forumer - we lack the capability to do so in many cases. To date, some women prefer to deliver at home due to lack of resources to pay for the services they might receive in a medical facility where they would have delivered the baby. from there, proper birth record [documentation] is lost.

As we talk, several children are not in school because their parents has no money to pay levies/fees which may be imposed or asked of them by their schools. Certainly, we have several problems, not just the proper "childbirth documentation" and I honestly don't know how they will be solved.

By the way, is ALL THESE soccer related? Just asking!

you are always confused, because you lack basic critical thinking process and as well as not being the sharpest knife in the drawer.. hopefully you learn to improve your thinking and analyzing skills ASAP... I will-like for you to be a role model some day

:lol: :lol: :lol: You are certainly a fool. Do you think I have forgotten about you? You have good analytical skills, yet has no "common sense." Don't worry, I am still sharpening my Knife to slash you to pieces - more than I did last time :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: Please get ready!

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And the BIBLE says: The race is NOT for the swift, neither is the battle for the strong nor ... but time and chance makes them all.
Ecclesiastes 1:18: For in much wisdom is much grief and he that increases knowledge increases sorrow.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:15 pm 
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Odas wrote:
Bigpokey24 wrote:
Odas wrote:
I am having difficulty agreeing with what you guys are saying and at the same time, disagreeing with you guys; therefore, I am confused. To me, we have several problems in Nigeria and indeed, in many African nations. Where does one start? How does a leader strive to solve problems when all others behind or under him/her are doing the opposite due to greed?

Yes, the birth of several children are not [properly] recorded because - as already mentioned in above by a forumer - we lack the capability to do so in many cases. To date, some women prefer to deliver at home due to lack of resources to pay for the services they might receive in a medical facility where they would have delivered the baby. from there, proper birth record [documentation] is lost.

As we talk, several children are not in school because their parents has no money to pay levies/fees which may be imposed or asked of them by their schools. Certainly, we have several problems, not just the proper "childbirth documentation" and I honestly don't know how they will be solved.

By the way, is ALL THESE soccer related? Just asking!

you are always confused, because you lack basic critical thinking process and as well as not being the sharpest knife in the drawer.. hopefully you learn to improve your thinking and analyzing skills ASAP... I will-like for you to be a role model some day

:lol: :lol: :lol: You are certainly a fool. Do you think I have forgotten about you? You have good analytical skills, yet has no "common sense." Don't worry, I am still sharpening my Knife to slash you to pieces - more than I did last time :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: Please get ready!

past tense..once again you display your poor understanding of knowing when words are used in present, past and past participle ... this is pretty embarrassing

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:16 pm 
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Bigpokey24 wrote:
Odas wrote:
Bigpokey24 wrote:
Odas wrote:
I am having difficulty agreeing with what you guys are saying and at the same time, disagreeing with you guys; therefore, I am confused. To me, we have several problems in Nigeria and indeed, in many African nations. Where does one start? How does a leader strive to solve problems when all others behind or under him/her are doing the opposite due to greed?

Yes, the birth of several children are not [properly] recorded because - as already mentioned in above by a forumer - we lack the capability to do so in many cases. To date, some women prefer to deliver at home due to lack of resources to pay for the services they might receive in a medical facility where they would have delivered the baby. from there, proper birth record [documentation] is lost.

As we talk, several children are not in school because their parents has no money to pay levies/fees which may be imposed or asked of them by their schools. Certainly, we have several problems, not just the proper "childbirth documentation" and I honestly don't know how they will be solved.

By the way, is ALL THESE soccer related? Just asking!

you are always confused, because you lack basic critical thinking process and as well as not being the sharpest knife in the drawer.. hopefully you learn to improve your thinking and analyzing skills ASAP... I will-like for you to be a role model some day

:lol: :lol: :lol: You are certainly a fool. Do you think I have forgotten about you? You have good analytical skills, yet has no "common sense." Don't worry, I am still sharpening my Knife to slash you to pieces - more than I did last time :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: Please get ready!

past tense..once again you display your poor understanding of knowing when words are used in present, past and past participle ... this is pretty embarrassing

:lol: :lol: :lol: Mumu, please note when I write in this place, I do not care about grammatical correctness, nor do I care about other people's grammatical correctness, as long as I understood what the writer intended to day or is saying. In another word, I write for my "audience." Here, I assume my audience is mainly that of primary school students

Having said the above and if you are so good in Oyibo LANGUAGE, why start your sentence wrongly? In your Community college English classes, were you taught to start sentences poorly (with SMALL LETTERS?) Please see your sentence in above which I have highlighted for you. Do you see yourself - Mr. Mumu?

Next time, I will deal with your writings (sentences) using the "APA" format. If you don't know what APA means, or it's writing format, then go back to school and complete your University education instead of the Comm. College education you currently possess

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And the BIBLE says: The race is NOT for the swift, neither is the battle for the strong nor ... but time and chance makes them all.
Ecclesiastes 1:18: For in much wisdom is much grief and he that increases knowledge increases sorrow.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:29 pm 
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Bigpokey24 wrote:
Odas wrote:
Bigpokey24 wrote:
Odas wrote:
I am having difficulty agreeing with what you guys are saying and at the same time, disagreeing with you guys; therefore, I am confused. To me, we have several problems in Nigeria and indeed, in many African nations. Where does one start? How does a leader strive to solve problems when all others behind or under him/her are doing the opposite due to greed?

Yes, the birth of several children are not [properly] recorded because - as already mentioned in above by a forumer - we lack the capability to do so in many cases. To date, some women prefer to deliver at home due to lack of resources to pay for the services they might receive in a medical facility where they would have delivered the baby. from there, proper birth record [documentation] is lost.

As we talk, several children are not in school because their parents has no money to pay levies/fees which may be imposed or asked of them by their schools. Certainly, we have several problems, not just the proper "childbirth documentation" and I honestly don't know how they will be solved.

By the way, is ALL THESE soccer related? Just asking!

you are always confused, because you lack basic critical thinking process and as well as not being the sharpest knife in the drawer.. hopefully you learn to improve your thinking and analyzing skills ASAP... I will-like for you to be a role model some day

:lol: :lol: :lol: You are certainly a fool. Do you think I have forgotten about you? You have good analytical skills, yet has no "common sense." Don't worry, I am still sharpening my Knife to slash you to pieces - more than I did last time :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: Please get ready!

past tense..once again you display your poor understanding of knowing when words are used in present, past and past participle ... this is pretty embarrassing

Hold a minute! I went back to check what you wrote and in a second, I saw several grammatical nonsenses which you wrote :lol: :lol: :lol:

Please what is; "... poor understanding of knowing ...?" What type of English grammar are you writing? Mumu boy, please remember I taught the class about these things the other day. Hehehehehe, "understanding of knowing?" In my class? Wow! Grammar boy! :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: Please correct yourself, hurry

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And the BIBLE says: The race is NOT for the swift, neither is the battle for the strong nor ... but time and chance makes them all.
Ecclesiastes 1:18: For in much wisdom is much grief and he that increases knowledge increases sorrow.


Last edited by Odas on Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:32 pm 
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Ok, bickering ITKs, please don't derail this educating thread.
P-L-E-A-S-E!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:48 am 
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Ok Nigeria is one of the most corrupt countries in the world per statistics, so to find the honest nigerian leaders, lets subject them all to a fancy lie detector test to determine the honest ones. Ignore the track records, ignore the nigerian experience. When the lie detector is failed woefully in significant numbers, cast doubts on the process of the test, the veracity of the test and reasoning for using it. The ajebutters don't know how corrupt Nigeria is and think everyone has access to govt info.

If their births are not recorded, do they just spring up from under a rock and become star footballers good enough for national team selection? We don't know when they were born, hence we just take whatever they claim their age is and push them through the MRI filter, then select those that pass/beat the test. If they don't pass, they just go away quietly.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:33 pm 
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Being born outside a heath centre does not mean the birth will not be registered eventually. The lack of registration of children born in 2001 and later is dubious.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:37 pm 
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folem wrote:
Being born outside a heath centre does not mean the birth will not be registered. The lack of registration of children born in 2001 and later is dubious.


Folem,

Birth registration of children born in health centers and hospitals are not even done let alone kids born outside. There is a form that needs to be filled each time a child is born in these centers or hospitals. In some cases, these forms are left unfilled. Bros, I have anecdotes on this from several people close to these activities but I have preferred instead to cite documented reports. Can you please provide some documented report supporting that there are definitely birth registration of Nigerian children that is ongoing since 2001?

Though you point to the fact that a birth can be registered later. Of course that is true and can be done in schools and during immunization process for some of those not registered at birth. The problem though is the accuracy of that later registration. That is the issue. In essence, the birth dates are more likely to be based on guesses.

It seems to me that so many do not understand the issues surrounding delivery of babies and their birth registration in Nigeria. It is a huge problem. While I have relied documents, I actually have talked with people involved in this work at the highest levels and make no mistake about the grave challenges faced on this issue in Nigeria

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The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:27 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
folem wrote:
Being born outside a heath centre does not mean the birth will not be registered. The lack of registration of children born in 2001 and later is dubious.


Folem,

Birth registration of children born in health centers and hospitals are not even done let alone kids born outside. There is a form that needs to be filled each time a child is born in these centers or hospitals. In some cases, these forms are left unfilled. Bros, I have anecdotes on this from several people close to these activities but I have preferred instead to cite documented reports. Can you please provide some documented report supporting that there are definitely birth registration of Nigerian children that is ongoing since 2001?

Though you point to the fact that a birth can be registered later. Of course that is true and can be done in schools and during immunization process for some of those not registered at birth. The problem though is the accuracy of that later registration. That is the issue. In essence, the birth dates are more likely to be based on guesses.

It seems to me that so many do not understand the issues surrounding delivery of babies and their birth registration in Nigeria. It is a huge problem. While I have relied documents, I actually have talked with people involved in this work at the highest levels and make no mistake about the grave challenges faced on this issue in Nigeria

Even if our U17 prospects tend to come from a pool of Nigerians without a birth registration (doubt it), we've (i.e. NFF) had 30 yrs to figure this out. For how long will we continue to be academic about it? High failure rates on a test that's supposedly 99% accurate. Time is up on those cowboys!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:41 pm 
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felarey wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
folem wrote:
Being born outside a heath centre does not mean the birth will not be registered. The lack of registration of children born in 2001 and later is dubious.


Folem,

Birth registration of children born in health centers and hospitals are not even done let alone kids born outside. There is a form that needs to be filled each time a child is born in these centers or hospitals. In some cases, these forms are left unfilled. Bros, I have anecdotes on this from several people close to these activities but I have preferred instead to cite documented reports. Can you please provide some documented report supporting that there are definitely birth registration of Nigerian children that is ongoing since 2001?

Though you point to the fact that a birth can be registered later. Of course that is true and can be done in schools and during immunization process for some of those not registered at birth. The problem though is the accuracy of that later registration. That is the issue. In essence, the birth dates are more likely to be based on guesses.

It seems to me that so many do not understand the issues surrounding delivery of babies and their birth registration in Nigeria. It is a huge problem. While I have relied documents, I actually have talked with people involved in this work at the highest levels and make no mistake about the grave challenges faced on this issue in Nigeria

Even if our U17 prospects tend to come from a pool of Nigerians without a birth registration (doubt it), we've (i.e. NFF) had 30 yrs to figure this out. For how long will we continue to be academic about it? High failure rates on a test that's supposedly 99% accurate. Time is up on those cowboys!


Felarey,

The point here is to lay down facts about child delivery and birth recording in Nigeria. These are facts, regardless of sport. That is the point.

What is stunning to primary care officials in Nigeria is that there exists Nigerians who believe that all births are recorded in Nigeria. My elder sister is a doctor who works in primary health care in Nigeria and some of her publications are online and she worked on Dr. Muhammadu Pate (former Minister of State in the Health Ministry) to distribute child delivery kits in rural areas in Nigeria. My cousin is a doctor who has done multiple health consultancy work in Nigeria and continues to do so. I presented this very issue to them. They are stunned by the belief that all births are registered. Nothing to them, is furthest from the truth. What they do not realize, however, is that most of us are unaware of the statistics that they and others produce in the health areas. To then deny health realities in Nigeria even in the face of statistics produced by people in the field is in itself a grave denial of facts.

We can argue on whether footballers come from such a pool or not. What we cannot deny are facts about child delivery and birth recording in Nigeria.

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The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:59 am 
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We do not have situations in Nigeria where kids in primary school, class 1, are all of different ages. No, no, no. There may be a few outliers who started school late or early, but the majority are usually born in the same year. I went to different schools in Nigeria. I was always in classes where my fellow classmates were all born around the same year, give or take 1-2 years.

Nigerians know the year their children were born, and even if they didn't give birth in a hospital (which is rare these days), as soon as the child starts school that information begins to get recorded, year after year. Schools in Nigeria keep records. They have to as they cannot operate without knowing the DOBs of the pupils.

If a player cannot produce a birth cert, simply ask them to produce early school records. Just as you would check that the birth cert is authentic, you would also check that whatever school records they produce is authentic. This will not be 100% perfect, but it will eliminate the majority of the age cheats before they even get to the MRI test.

MRI is not perfect and it's a shame that a real 17-year-old kid could fail the test, but we brought this upon ourselves. We are pretending that we can't determine the ages of our players to leave room for age cheating.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:49 pm 
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Look at it, through the lens of phantom infrastructural budgetary expenditure and corruption. Over the years we hear of all these projects but nothing physically materializes. You have to look at the politicians - This rut has to stop. Imagine a trader who spends his capital on feeding and buying luxury goods for personal use? Only a matter of time before he goes bust. Politicians are the cancer eating Nigeria from the inside.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:19 am 
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Orion wrote:
We do not have situations in Nigeria where kids in primary school, class 1, are all of different ages. No, no, no. There may be a few outliers who started school late or early, but the majority are usually born in the same year. I went to different schools in Nigeria. I was always in classes where my fellow classmates were all born around the same year, give or take 1-2 years.

Nigerians know the year their children were born, and even if they didn't give birth in a hospital (which is rare these days), as soon as the child starts school that information begins to get recorded, year after year. Schools in Nigeria keep records. They have to as they cannot operate without knowing the DOBs of the pupils.

If a player cannot produce a birth cert, simply ask them to produce early school records. Just as you would check that the birth cert is authentic, you would also check that whatever school records they produce is authentic. This will not be 100% perfect, but it will eliminate the majority of the age cheats before they even get to the MRI test.

MRI is not perfect and it's a shame that a real 17-year-old kid could fail the test, but we brought this upon ourselves. We are pretending that we can't determine the ages of our players to leave room for age cheating.


I believe age cheating starts in secondary school just about leaving the senior school or thereabouts. People don't usually lie about age in primary school. One simple method of detecting age cheats is to look at ages of leaving school, both primary and secondary.


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