Cybereagles

The Undisputed Number One Home for All Super Eagles Fans
It is currently Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:16 am

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:46 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:37 pm
Posts: 13668
Location: Sandton, SA
Fellows

I was just following the ..."MOHAMMED SALLAH IS ONLY A CLUB FOOTBALLER" thread and someone mentioned that at 37 goals he is challenging for the Egyptian record (and I think all things equal, he will break that record)

37 is also the number of goals Yekini has scored for Nigeria

It is quite revealing that the second highest goal scorer for Nigeria of all time is the great Segun Odegbami who last played in the early 80s then there is Yakubu

Can people share their thoughts as to why we have not really had sharp shooting strikers that are dependable like Etoo, Drogba, Aubemeyang, McCarthy, Weah

We have touted Ike Uche, Kanu, Ighalo, Agali but they have either been injury plagued, haven't lived up to the hype or (something I feel is more an issue), we have not let the players settle into a role or playing style for them to give their best. Too much chopping and changing after one indifferent game and we have a new "messiah"

I believe that if we let Musa play in his striking role and are consistent with him, he will challenge and break that record

Welcome your thoughts

_________________
For my sceptical Nigerian Friends : Pessimism is great because you are either always right or pleasantly surprised.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:46 am
Posts: 29747
Ahmed Musa and I hope he does so.

_________________
"Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud have we become, and how blind."

Primary: Lenovo Y410p: i5-4200M | 2GB GT755M | 8GB DDR3L | 1TB 5400RPM | N2230 | LGIPS237L/LG24MP76 - Windows 10 64-Bit
Secondary: Dell Inspirion 1545: Core2Duo | 4GB RAM | 320GB 5400RPM - Linux Mint Cinnamon
Tertiary: HP Pavilion 2500: Core2Duo T5250 1.5GHz | 2GB DDR2 | 320GB | 64MB NVidia GeF8400M - Linux Mint Cinnamon
HTC One - BB Z10 - APPLE IPad Mini


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 13918
Location: Here
Obafemi Martins :D

_________________
"The young Walt Disney was sacked because he lacked imagination. They advised Marilyn Monroe to become a secretary and Elvis to go back to driving a lorry."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:06 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:57 pm
Posts: 37395
Location: UK
akamoke wrote:
Fellows

I was just following the ..."MOHAMMED SALLAH IS ONLY A CLUB FOOTBALLER" thread and someone mentioned that at 37 goals he is challenging for the Egyptian record (and I think all things equal, he will break that record)

37 is also the number of goals Yekini has scored for Nigeria

It is quite revealing that the second highest goal scorer for Nigeria of all time is the great Segun Odegbami who last played in the early 80s then there is Yakubu

Can people share their thoughts as to why we have not really had sharp shooting strikers that are dependable like Etoo, Drogba, Aubemeyang, McCarthy, Weah

We have touted Ike Uche, Kanu, Ighalo, Agali but they have either been injury plagued, haven't lived up to the hype or (something I feel is more an issue), we have not let the players settle into a role or playing style for them to give their best. Too much chopping and changing after one indifferent game and we have a new "messiah"

I believe that if we let Musa play in his striking role and are consistent with him, he will challenge and break that record

Welcome your thoughts
Good question which brings up again my similar question posed some months ago. Some illuminative answers in there
'Why Was Yekini So Special?'
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=289870

Was thinking along the same lines again this morning when reading Kongi's 'Golden Generation' thread. With all the exciting young talent coming through in various positions, there do not appear to be any central goleadors on the horizon.

Awoniyi, Success and Osimhien are all still a long way off from the finished article. Agreed though, it is still early days for them.

Looks like Ahmed Musa is our leading goalscorer at the moment but no way do I see him touching Yekini's record.

_________________
"Ole kuku ni gbogbo wọn "


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:34 pm
Posts: 2042
I think we actually replaced yekini in the likes of Obagoal and aghawonder but our biggest wahala has been “consistency” most Nigerian strikers start scoring goals for a year then have a “goal drough” fans will start suggesting they discard those strikers instead of giving them chances we do not understand that patience, perseverance and time in this country and we’re quick to discard our boys after any drought because there no way anyone will tell me 2005 (Obagoal) wasn’t as good as yekini. Another reason is “professionalism” the moment our players start progressing, unprofessional behavior begins and their career starts regressing


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:13 am
Posts: 2666
Iheanacho's goal return suggests he would be a good bet.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:06 am
Posts: 3289
john12 wrote:
I think we actually replaced yekini in the likes of Obagoal and aghawonder but our biggest wahala has been “consistency” most Nigerian strikers start scoring goals for a year then have a “goal drough” fans will start suggesting they discard those strikers instead of giving them chances we do not understand that patience, perseverance and time in this country and we’re quick to discard our boys after any drought because there no way anyone will tell me 2005 (Obagoal) wasn’t as good as yekini. Another reason is “professionalism” the moment our players start progressing, unprofessional behavior begins and their career starts regressing


Obagoal was the biggest false dawn for the Eagles after Agali. The only striker who overall acquitted himself well post Yekini was Yakubu. Strikers have mostly been disappointing for us, there is a reason I think Okocha has been our best scorer in tournaments since 2000.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:51 am
Posts: 26784
Location: Southern Hemisphere
Nigeria's goal record is very strange.

For a country of our stature, our best have not been all that consistent. The likes of Martins, Yak, Kanu etc. did not score as many as they should have, being our legends and all. Forget goal ratios, lets just talk in absolute terms. Why haven't we had strikers that go the distance? Why do we rotate and swap strikers as often as we do, why did guys like Ike Uche and Emenike just fall off the face of the planet.

Our goal record is very very very strange. Even Yekini's goal tally is nice, but at this stage we should at least one striker with 50 goals for GWG.

_________________
Bixente Lizarazu once described Spain’s football - which won them two European titles and a World Cup - as “love without the sex. It lacks a bit of spice”. News.com.au


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:51 am
Posts: 26784
Location: Southern Hemisphere
This has been one of the most puzzling problems for me regarding Nigerian football for a very long time. You pick some random country that you think will be comparable with Nigeria, their all time goal scorers record will look better than ours, more consistency.

Just think of any random country in your head that is comparable to Nigeria and check.

_________________
Bixente Lizarazu once described Spain’s football - which won them two European titles and a World Cup - as “love without the sex. It lacks a bit of spice”. News.com.au


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:46 pm
Posts: 57090
Awoniyi or Osimhen.

_________________
Winners do it the right way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kimbo5c0Ak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMAchpi46lA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:39 am
Posts: 16674
Location: Super Eagles Homeland
Tbite wrote:
Nigeria's goal record is very strange.

For a country of our stature, our best have not been all that consistent. The likes of Martins, Yak, Kanu etc. did not score as many as they should have, being our legends and all. Forget goal ratios, lets just talk in absolute terms. Why haven't we had strikers that go the distance? Why do we rotate and swap strikers as often as we do, why did guys like Ike Uche and Emenike just fall off the face of the planet.

Our goal record is very very very strange. Even Yekini's goal tally is nice, but at this stage we should at least one striker with 50 goals for GWG.


Tbite

I agree completely and I think you have the answer already - the constant changing of players. This is also the reason that we have only two players who have made a century of appearances for Nigeria - Enyeama at 101 and Yobo at 100. Strange, very strange.

_________________
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:46 pm
Posts: 57090
The problem is not the amount of cap. Musa will end up with more caps than Yekini. The problem is Nigeria is not producing quality play makers. We don't score a lot of goals.


Yekini played 58 games for Nigeria. Musa has already played 74 games.

_________________
Winners do it the right way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kimbo5c0Ak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMAchpi46lA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:51 am
Posts: 26784
Location: Southern Hemisphere
The problem is both.

37 goals is great, but it's not really earth shattering.

You want players with great ability, with great service AND playing for many many years. That is what we want. We don't want 1/3, 2/3, we want all those 3 things.

What good is it if we have a player with 0.8 goals per game, but drops out of the NT after 1-2 years?

We want consistency in every meaning of the word. Whether that be in terms of service, whether that be in terms of inherent ability, whether that be in terms of call ups.

One of the things that made Enyeama such a legend was the fact that he did it for us again and again and again, that is what we want.

but of course, naturally these things are even related. Presumably, we would be less inclined to chop and change if we had players with better inherent ability, and with better service. But there is also the point, that how much does chopping and changing contribute to the impediment of momentum in the NT. Playing in football is as much about understanding, momentum and chemistry, as it is about those other things like ability and service.

What is irrefutable is these things are related in some way.

_________________
Bixente Lizarazu once described Spain’s football - which won them two European titles and a World Cup - as “love without the sex. It lacks a bit of spice”. News.com.au


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:51 am
Posts: 26784
Location: Southern Hemisphere
Enugu II wrote:
Tbite wrote:
Nigeria's goal record is very strange.

For a country of our stature, our best have not been all that consistent. The likes of Martins, Yak, Kanu etc. did not score as many as they should have, being our legends and all. Forget goal ratios, lets just talk in absolute terms. Why haven't we had strikers that go the distance? Why do we rotate and swap strikers as often as we do, why did guys like Ike Uche and Emenike just fall off the face of the planet.

Our goal record is very very very strange. Even Yekini's goal tally is nice, but at this stage we should at least one striker with 50 goals for GWG.


Tbite

I agree completely and I think you have the answer already - the constant changing of players. This is also the reason that we have only two players who have made a century of appearances for Nigeria - Enyeama at 101 and Yobo at 100. Strange, very strange.


Low caps, relatively few goals scored, these are things we need to examine.

It would also be interesting to know in which stages do we perform better, and in which stages do we under-perform.

I am thinking anecdotally, for example that Nigeria has often laboured against relatively weak teams in qualifiers. In recent times, we have seen many of our neighbours with high scoring in qualifiers. Do we score more (relatively) in the competition proper?

We might even consider the way our team is setup, does Nigeria distribute its goals more across the 10 outfield players than some other countries? Are we scoring fewer goals per game than other countries ranked 20-55 in the FIFA ranking?

but back to the question of WHO. I have been hoping that someone would step up, but to be honest I do not see it coming. When it happens, it will be a surprise to me.

_________________
Bixente Lizarazu once described Spain’s football - which won them two European titles and a World Cup - as “love without the sex. It lacks a bit of spice”. News.com.au


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:30 am
Posts: 4350
Tbite wrote:
This has been one of the most puzzling problems for me regarding Nigerian football for a very long time. You pick some random country that you think will be comparable with Nigeria, their all time goal scorers record will look better than ours, more consistency.

Just think of any random country in your head that is comparable to Nigeria and check.

What is the all-time goal scoring record for Algeria, Tunisia, Senegal, DR Congo, South Africa, Colombia, Paraguay, Ecuador, Russia, Romania, Norway, Scotland, ...?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:51 pm
Posts: 13121
Location: South London
The first thing you must remember is that a player must play abroad before he is trusted to play for Nigeria but Yekini didn’t have to wait,Nigeria of late stumble across players once they make it in Europe at one point Obifemi Martins wasn’t heard of until he broke into the first team at Inter Milan.

_________________
WHAT SHALL BE SHALL BE SABI


Last edited by Eaglezbeak on Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:06 am
Posts: 3289
folem wrote:
Tbite wrote:
This has been one of the most puzzling problems for me regarding Nigerian football for a very long time. You pick some random country that you think will be comparable with Nigeria, their all time goal scorers record will look better than ours, more consistency.

Just think of any random country in your head that is comparable to Nigeria and check.

What is the all-time goal scoring record for Algeria, Tunisia, Senegal, DR Congo, South Africa, Colombia, Paraguay, Ecuador, Russia, Romania, Norway, Scotland, ...?


Are these real countries?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:04 pm
Posts: 42837
Yekini scored a lot of goals for Nigeria in Africa. We don't need any player that will challenge that record. We need players that will set new World cup scoring record.

_________________
Image

The Lord is my Shephard. I shall not be in want.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:51 am
Posts: 26784
Location: Southern Hemisphere
folem wrote:
Tbite wrote:
This has been one of the most puzzling problems for me regarding Nigerian football for a very long time. You pick some random country that you think will be comparable with Nigeria, their all time goal scorers record will look better than ours, more consistency.

Just think of any random country in your head that is comparable to Nigeria and check.

What is the all-time goal scoring record for Algeria, Tunisia, Senegal, DR Congo, South Africa, Colombia, Paraguay, Ecuador, Russia, Romania, Norway, Scotland, ...?


Colombia is only really a relevant footballing nation in less than 20 years! One could argue that they have only recently surpassed Nigeria.

There is a reason why four of their all time scorers are still active. With Nigeria, only Musa is really still in it. Martins won't be called up.

Algeria's record is better than ours. Yekini is like an outlier, whereas in Algeria you had five players hitting that quarter century mark. Yekini is the ONLY player in Nigeria to do so. Tunisia's record is a carbon copy of Nigeria's, not that I would count them as comparable to us, but whatever. In the same vein Senegal are barely comparable, that 2002 fairy-tale run is about the only thing that brings them into the discussion. Even so, their record is only marginally worse than ours, but for how long? 3 of their top scorers are active, one being Mane!

South Africa's record is comparable to ours. As EII suggested, this would not be because they had the better players. They just used their strikers more, more consistency.

You have selected a list of countries that I would argue are mostly lesser than Nigeria, with the exception of the rare spark here and there, but I have indulged you mostly.

When you compare Nigeria to its peers such as Cameroon, Algeria, Egypt, Mexico, Australia etc. , the pattern is clear. Even if you handicap many of these countries, such as discounting Eto'o's role in Cameroon, you still find that they have at least 3 players with a top record.

Nigeria has only 1 player above the 1/4 century mark! And nobody has even come close to reaching that mark in half a decade.

One of the only countries that is comparable, with a clear worse record, is Ghana. Asamoah Gyan is simply an even bigger outlier than Yekini; all their other strikers have been average.

Anyway I have argued a very bold case for a reason - I don't need to be right on every little nitpicked thing, the reason I have done so, is to argue that Nigeria's goal-scoring record is irrefutably poor.

_________________
Bixente Lizarazu once described Spain’s football - which won them two European titles and a World Cup - as “love without the sex. It lacks a bit of spice”. News.com.au


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:13 am
Posts: 2666
Tbite wrote:
There is a reason why four of their all time scorers are still active. With Nigeria, only Musa is really still in it. Martins won't be called up.


Iheanacho has 8 goals, is almost 22. He's had a poor goalscoring year, but he can easily rise to beat the record. Especially with his recent uptick in club form.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:41 am
Posts: 8494
Iheanacho looks likely.

_________________
IN SUPER EAGLES WE TRUST


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:17 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:37 pm
Posts: 13668
Location: Sandton, SA
I think as long as we normalize "holding strikers" we are not going to go far in the goal scoring department . This is why we tolerated Kanu and Ighalo as "strikers" for long. In addition, our non emphasis on Set pieces adds to our goal woes.

All this in addition to not letting strikers settle

_________________
For my sceptical Nigerian Friends : Pessimism is great because you are either always right or pleasantly surprised.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:54 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:57 pm
Posts: 37395
Location: UK
akamoke wrote:
I think as long as we normalize "holding strikers" we are not going to go far in the goal scoring department . This is why we tolerated Kanu and Ighalo as "strikers" for long. In addition, our non emphasis on Set pieces adds to our goal woes.

All this in addition to not letting strikers settle
Ighalo was allowed to settle, but maybe he was a 'holding' striker rather than a goal-poacher. Same with Ideyen.
King Kanu was an enigma. Was he even a striker in the true sense. Its hard to tell.
The only genuine strikers I can think of are Yekini, Martins and Aiyegbeni.

Personally, I think we have a problem esp as there appear to be real gems emerging in other departments. But central strikers?
Hmmm.....

_________________
"Ole kuku ni gbogbo wọn "


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot] and 36 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group