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 Post subject: Pinnick my Hero
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:45 am 
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NFF directs Rohr to source for players from local league
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Quote:
Nigeria Football Federation President, Amaju Pinnick has directed Super Eagles’ Manager, Gernot Rohr to monitor domestic competitions for players for his team. Pinnick said the continued dependence on players based overseas was undermining the development of Nigerian football, noting that inviting 23 foreign-based stars for a match against lowly-rated teams like Seychelles was a waste of resources. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Speaking on a radio programme monitored in Lagos yesterday, Pinnick agreed that talents abound in the Nigerian Professional Football League (NPFL), adding that they needed encouragement to get to the desired level. :shock: :shock:

He said, “Gernot Rohr’s continuous focus on foreign-based players for national team’s assignments is not right. If he uses foreign-based players against a team like Seychelles :ohmy: :ohmy: , I wonder what would happen when we play against big teams like Cameroon and the others. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

“Rohr should imitate Super Falcons’ coach, who is always in the country sourcing for domestic talents for his team.”

Pinnick also revealed that he had been told of Rohr’s reservations about Super Eagles playing an international friendly against Uganda in Asaba, adding, however, that the coach had no right to choose the venue Nigeria’s senior national team would play their matches :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: .

“Rohr has not told me anything on the Asaba venue yet. Based on the situation on ground, when a state government decides to sponsor about 70 per cent of a game, it will go a long way to settle some issues. With my experience as a football administrator, with due respect to the coach, the Asaba pitch is okay for the Super Eagles to play. I will call Rohr to clarify the statement,” :D :D :D he added.

The NFF president disclosed that Coach Salisu Yusuf would return to his job as Super Eagles’ assistant coach after serving his suspension over alleged bribery.

“Salisu Yusuf would come back as the Eagles assistant coach after his suspension. He still has a contract with the NFF.

“It is not that I am supporting Salisu Yusuf for what he did. In life, there is nobody that has not fallen short of anything one way or the other. The coach has realised his mistakes and he needs to be forgiven.

“If God could forgive us for our sins, who are we as human beings not to forgive others. In the Bible, Jesus Christ told the people, whoever had not committed sin before should cast the first stone on a woman who committed sin. That is a symbol of forgiveness,” he said.

https://guardian.ng/sport/nff-directs-r ... al-league/


Pinnick in 5 years has said the right thing :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: . Now back it up with action.

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 Post subject: Re: Pinnick my Hero
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:18 am 
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Fake news. Pinnick or the NFF should make these requirements part of the contract so they can be responsible when Rohr fields 3SC players and gets creamed by Seychelles.

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 Post subject: Re: Pinnick my Hero
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:23 pm 
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Trying to force fit local players into the Super Eagles is nothing short of a concerted effort to denigrate the quality of the SE. It is obvious that the Local players are sub standard - every measurable metric points to this:
- very poor club performances at the continental level.
- the so called 'great' players (e.g. Okpotu and Lakosa) have repeatedly failed to secure contracts in any credible league overseas, even in countries that don't have reputable leagues.

FACT: The job of the SE Coach is to present the nations best players available to prosecute matches, wherever they may be, and not to use a quota system to select candidates. The job of the NFF is to create and develop a credible league. Trying to conflate the two is extremely dumb.

FACT: It is pretty obvious to football enthusiasts that our best players all ply their trades beyond our shores - i.e. Foreign based. Any argument to the countrary is nothing short of disingenuous.

The local players have MORE THAN ENOUGH competitions currently, to showcase whatever skills they have to the rest of the world:
1. African Champions League and Cup club competitions
2. WAFU Cup Club competitions
3. WAFU Nations Cup Competitions
4. CHAN Nations Competitions.
That should suffice!!

Don't understand the selfish drive on the part of some to intentionally dilute the quality of the SE with mediocre players? If Pinnick supposedly said that, then I am deeply disappointed in his pandering to the wants and desires of those who do not wish Nigerian football well.

fabio wrote:
NFF directs Rohr to source for players from local league
:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:
Quote:
Nigeria Football Federation President, Amaju Pinnick has directed Super Eagles’ Manager, Gernot Rohr to monitor domestic competitions for players for his team. Pinnick said the continued dependence on players based overseas was undermining the development of Nigerian football, noting that inviting 23 foreign-based stars for a match against lowly-rated teams like Seychelles was a waste of resources. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Speaking on a radio programme monitored in Lagos yesterday, Pinnick agreed that talents abound in the Nigerian Professional Football League (NPFL), adding that they needed encouragement to get to the desired level. :shock: :shock:

He said, “Gernot Rohr’s continuous focus on foreign-based players for national team’s assignments is not right. If he uses foreign-based players against a team like Seychelles :ohmy: :ohmy: , I wonder what would happen when we play against big teams like Cameroon and the others. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

“Rohr should imitate Super Falcons’ coach, who is always in the country sourcing for domestic talents for his team.”

Pinnick also revealed that he had been told of Rohr’s reservations about Super Eagles playing an international friendly against Uganda in Asaba, adding, however, that the coach had no right to choose the venue Nigeria’s senior national team would play their matches :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: .

“Rohr has not told me anything on the Asaba venue yet. Based on the situation on ground, when a state government decides to sponsor about 70 per cent of a game, it will go a long way to settle some issues. With my experience as a football administrator, with due respect to the coach, the Asaba pitch is okay for the Super Eagles to play. I will call Rohr to clarify the statement,” :D :D :D he added.

The NFF president disclosed that Coach Salisu Yusuf would return to his job as Super Eagles’ assistant coach after serving his suspension over alleged bribery.

“Salisu Yusuf would come back as the Eagles assistant coach after his suspension. He still has a contract with the NFF.

“It is not that I am supporting Salisu Yusuf for what he did. In life, there is nobody that has not fallen short of anything one way or the other. The coach has realised his mistakes and he needs to be forgiven.

“If God could forgive us for our sins, who are we as human beings not to forgive others. In the Bible, Jesus Christ told the people, whoever had not committed sin before should cast the first stone on a woman who committed sin. That is a symbol of forgiveness,” he said.

https://guardian.ng/sport/nff-directs-r ... al-league/


Pinnick in 5 years has said the right thing :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: . Now back it up with action.

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 Post subject: Re: Pinnick my Hero
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:33 pm 
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It is more a requirement of Pinnick to provide a league of a high enough standard to produce players good enough for Rohr's attention than it is for Rohr to produce local league players good enough for Pinnick's pride and joy, the senior national team.

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 Post subject: Re: Pinnick my Hero
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:02 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
It is more a requirement of Pinnick to provide a league of a high enough standard to produce players good enough for Rohr's attention than it is for Rohr to produce local league players good enough for Pinnick's pride and joy, the senior national team.


God bless you, what more can I add?

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 Post subject: Re: Pinnick my Hero
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:07 pm 
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The only players Rohr should really be monitoring in the NPL are goalkeepers.

We need new options desperately.


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 Post subject: Re: Pinnick my Hero
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:32 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
It is more a requirement of Pinnick to provide a league of a high enough standard to produce players good enough for Rohr's attention than it is for Rohr to produce local league players good enough for Pinnick's pride and joy, the senior national team.

Story... According to Pinnick, the league is responsibility of the League management.

Playing Seychelles and you imported all your foreign based players for Seychelles... I bet you missed that. When you reply, please read and understand what Pinnick said. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Pinnick my Hero
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:24 pm 
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DIMKA76 wrote:
Damunk wrote:
It is more a requirement of Pinnick to provide a league of a high enough standard to produce players good enough for Rohr's attention than it is for Rohr to produce local league players good enough for Pinnick's pride and joy, the senior national team.


God bless you, what more can I add?



First thing first; This must be fake news but just in case it isn't then 'Picnic' shouldn't be communicating policy issues to the head coach through the media. Scouting and supporting local talents is a policy issue Rohr should already be aware of and if he is not doing enough to meet those then one would expect them to be talking about this in a more serious intimate meetings devoid of media sensationalism.
Second; NO it is not 'picnic's job to provide a league with already made players capable of call ups to National team unless you don't want to realistic.

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 Post subject: Re: Pinnick my Hero
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:38 pm 
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A league which instantly hemorrhages any semblance of a potential talent is akin to crying over spilled milk.

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 Post subject: Re: Pinnick my Hero
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:07 am 
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DIMKA76 wrote:
A league which instantly hemorrhages any semblance of a potential talent is akin to crying over spilled milk.



perhaps your broken English might be better understood

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make peaceful change impossible make violent change inevitable.

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement....Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true."


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 Post subject: Re: Pinnick my Hero
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:23 pm 
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The quality in the league is so poor that foreign teams are now looking towards the football academies when sourcing for talent.
It is a completely daft idea to superimpose local league players onto the Super Eagles coach for selection. Really, really dumb idea!

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 Post subject: Re: Pinnick my Hero
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:47 pm 
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Otitokoro wrote:
The quality in the league is so poor that foreign teams are now looking towards the football academies when sourcing for talent.
It is a completely daft idea to superimpose local league players onto the Super Eagles coach for selection. Really, really dumb idea!


Otitokoro,

I was reading and enjoying the debate until I saw the above. What you stated above is not entirely correct if you are presuming that talent is the reason. It is deeper than talent. An European club is more likely to take an academy player who is actually less talented than an NPFL player!! Why? The presumption is that the academy player is younger and has potential and, thus, can start in a club's youth team with the future in mind. No such luxury for an NPFL player, bro. An NPFL player who must make the regular squad or will not be signed on. Consider also some restrictions regarding homegrown talent. In any case, here is a piece regarding the above:

https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2018/04/why-academy-route-players-make-it-to.html

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 Post subject: Re: Pinnick my Hero
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:31 pm 
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Otitokoro wrote:
Trying to force fit local players into the Super Eagles is nothing short of a concerted effort to denigrate the quality of the SE. It is obvious that the Local players are sub standard - every measurable metric points to this:
- very poor club performances at the continental level.
- the so called 'great' players (e.g. Okpotu and Lakosa) have repeatedly failed to secure contracts in any credible league overseas, even in countries that don't have reputable leagues.

FACT: The job of the SE Coach is to present the nations best players available to prosecute matches, wherever they may be, and not to use a quota system to select candidates. The job of the NFF is to create and develop a credible league. Trying to conflate the two is extremely dumb.

FACT: It is pretty obvious to football enthusiasts that our best players all ply their trades beyond our shores - i.e. Foreign based. Any argument to the countrary is nothing short of disingenuous.

The local players have MORE THAN ENOUGH competitions currently, to showcase whatever skills they have to the rest of the world:
1. African Champions League and Cup club competitions
2. WAFU Cup Club competitions
3. WAFU Nations Cup Competitions
4. CHAN Nations Competitions.
That should suffice!!

Don't understand the selfish drive on the part of some to intentionally dilute the quality of the SE with mediocre players? If Pinnick supposedly said that, then I am deeply disappointed in his pandering to the wants and desires of those who do not wish Nigerian football well.

fabio wrote:
NFF directs Rohr to source for players from local league
:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:
Quote:
Nigeria Football Federation President, Amaju Pinnick has directed Super Eagles’ Manager, Gernot Rohr to monitor domestic competitions for players for his team. Pinnick said the continued dependence on players based overseas was undermining the development of Nigerian football, noting that inviting 23 foreign-based stars for a match against lowly-rated teams like Seychelles was a waste of resources. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Speaking on a radio programme monitored in Lagos yesterday, Pinnick agreed that talents abound in the Nigerian Professional Football League (NPFL), adding that they needed encouragement to get to the desired level. :shock: :shock:

He said, “Gernot Rohr’s continuous focus on foreign-based players for national team’s assignments is not right. If he uses foreign-based players against a team like Seychelles :ohmy: :ohmy: , I wonder what would happen when we play against big teams like Cameroon and the others. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

“Rohr should imitate Super Falcons’ coach, who is always in the country sourcing for domestic talents for his team.”

Pinnick also revealed that he had been told of Rohr’s reservations about Super Eagles playing an international friendly against Uganda in Asaba, adding, however, that the coach had no right to choose the venue Nigeria’s senior national team would play their matches :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: .

“Rohr has not told me anything on the Asaba venue yet. Based on the situation on ground, when a state government decides to sponsor about 70 per cent of a game, it will go a long way to settle some issues. With my experience as a football administrator, with due respect to the coach, the Asaba pitch is okay for the Super Eagles to play. I will call Rohr to clarify the statement,” :D :D :D he added.

The NFF president disclosed that Coach Salisu Yusuf would return to his job as Super Eagles’ assistant coach after serving his suspension over alleged bribery.

“Salisu Yusuf would come back as the Eagles assistant coach after his suspension. He still has a contract with the NFF.

“It is not that I am supporting Salisu Yusuf for what he did. In life, there is nobody that has not fallen short of anything one way or the other. The coach has realised his mistakes and he needs to be forgiven.

“If God could forgive us for our sins, who are we as human beings not to forgive others. In the Bible, Jesus Christ told the people, whoever had not committed sin before should cast the first stone on a woman who committed sin. That is a symbol of forgiveness,” he said.

https://guardian.ng/sport/nff-directs-r ... al-league/


Pinnick in 5 years has said the right thing :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: . Now back it up with action.


The performance of Nigerian clubs in the continent cannot be the sole determinant of the ability of the local players. Zambian clubs do not light it up but still provide a significant proportion of their national team players. One of the issues for Nigerian clubs is that you have the best players in the league spread almost evenly throughout the club's while in certain other leagues such as Egypt, Morocco, and Congo DR the best players are often found in 2 or 3 clubs. Pinnick is correct that local players should at least be considered for certain games.


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 Post subject: Re: Pinnick my Hero
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:57 pm 
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Aruako1,
I agree with you that the performance of Nigerian clubs in the continent cannot be the sole determinant of the ability of the local players. I believe CAF recognized that and hence the advent of competitions like WAFU Nations Cup and the CHAN Nations Cup, specifically geared towards local players, as I referenced in my initial post.

I disagree with your reference to Zambia as an example, as it is not relevant to the Nigerian scenario. For one, Zambia most certainly does not have anywhere close to the number of Nigerians playing professional football outside it shores. Even at that, if you look at the lineup of the Zambian team, it is laden with their South African based players. That being said, Zambia simply has no other choice but to source domestically.

Selection for our National team should NEVER be based on compassion or sentiment. It should be based on the simple question: who are the VERY BEST candidates for the job? The answer is our foreign based professionals, pure and simple! For the locals, they can always aspire to play for the Super Eagles Team B. If they are able to prove themselves and excel there, then they may be considered (like Lekan Adeleye, Ike Ezenwa, Stephen Eze and others).

Aruako1 wrote:
Otitokoro wrote:
Trying to force fit local players into the Super Eagles is nothing short of a concerted effort to denigrate the quality of the SE. It is obvious that the Local players are sub standard - every measurable metric points to this:
- very poor club performances at the continental level.
- the so called 'great' players (e.g. Okpotu and Lakosa) have repeatedly failed to secure contracts in any credible league overseas, even in countries that don't have reputable leagues.

FACT: The job of the SE Coach is to present the nations best players available to prosecute matches, wherever they may be, and not to use a quota system to select candidates. The job of the NFF is to create and develop a credible league. Trying to conflate the two is extremely dumb.

FACT: It is pretty obvious to football enthusiasts that our best players all ply their trades beyond our shores - i.e. Foreign based. Any argument to the countrary is nothing short of disingenuous.

The local players have MORE THAN ENOUGH competitions currently, to showcase whatever skills they have to the rest of the world:
1. African Champions League and Cup club competitions
2. WAFU Cup Club competitions
3. WAFU Nations Cup Competitions
4. CHAN Nations Competitions.
That should suffice!!

Don't understand the selfish drive on the part of some to intentionally dilute the quality of the SE with mediocre players? If Pinnick supposedly said that, then I am deeply disappointed in his pandering to the wants and desires of those who do not wish Nigerian football well.



The performance of Nigerian clubs in the continent cannot be the sole determinant of the ability of the local players. Zambian clubs do not light it up but still provide a significant proportion of their national team players. One of the issues for Nigerian clubs is that you have the best players in the league spread almost evenly throughout the club's while in certain other leagues such as Egypt, Morocco, and Congo DR the best players are often found in 2 or 3 clubs. Pinnick is correct that local players should at least be considered for certain games.

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Last edited by Otitokoro on Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pinnick my Hero
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:23 pm 
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Prof,
I read your article and it still does not contradict my argument that the foreign clubs would rather source their talent from Academies, vs. established local clubs. With reference to your comment on 'talent' any serious club would rather invest in someone who has the potential to grow their 'talent', vs someone whose 'talent' clearly has plateaued. That is the sole reason why most of these clubs would rather source from Academies.
Evidence of this is when you have the likes of Okpotu and Lakosa failing in trials for a Bulgarian Div 2 club and most recently, a Chinese Div 2 club. These were supposedly the top domestic league scorers and supposedly the best the domestic league had to offer!!!
So, this begs the question for the 'local player' protagonists: why would you want to force someone into the National team whose talent has plateaued and who has no hope of getting better?

Regarding the poor quality of the league: there was once-upon-a-time when players were sourced by big European clubs directly from our local leagues: the likes of Kanu, Oruma, Karibe Ojigwe, Gbenga Okunowo, Finidi George, etc. So, what happened?
Firstly, the quality of the league declined. Club follower-ship declined and the quality of our players left in the leagues declined significantly. I would argue that is still the case. All you need to do is watch some of the games and that will answer the question. Majority of our local league players are poor. That is why we are unable to make a significant impact at the continental level.
A lot of work needs to be done to improve the Nigerian league and this needs to be addressed first, before trying to force mediocre players into the Super Eagles. That approach will only hurt our quest to be one of the best teams in the world.
Enugu II wrote:
Otitokoro wrote:
The quality in the league is so poor that foreign teams are now looking towards the football academies when sourcing for talent.
It is a completely daft idea to superimpose local league players onto the Super Eagles coach for selection. Really, really dumb idea!


Otitokoro,

I was reading and enjoying the debate until I saw the above. What you stated above is not entirely correct if you are presuming that talent is the reason. It is deeper than talent. An European club is more likely to take an academy player who is actually less talented than an NPFL player!! Why? The presumption is that the academy player is younger and has potential and, thus, can start in a club's youth team with the future in mind. No such luxury for an NPFL player, bro. An NPFL player who must make the regular squad or will not be signed on. Consider also some restrictions regarding homegrown talent. In any case, here is a piece regarding the above:

https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2018/04/why-academy-route-players-make-it-to.html

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 Post subject: Re: Pinnick my Hero
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:13 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
It is more a requirement of Pinnick to provide a league of a high enough standard to produce players good enough for Rohr's attention than it is for Rohr to produce local league players good enough for Pinnick's pride and joy, the senior national team.

Thanks, Oga Damunk! Thanks a lot!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

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 Post subject: Re: Pinnick my Hero
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:19 pm 
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jette1 wrote:
DIMKA76 wrote:
Damunk wrote:
It is more a requirement of Pinnick to provide a league of a high enough standard to produce players good enough for Rohr's attention than it is for Rohr to produce local league players good enough for Pinnick's pride and joy, the senior national team.

God bless you, what more can I add?

First thing first; This must be fake news but just in case it isn't then 'Picnic' shouldn't be communicating policy issues to the head coach through the media. Scouting and supporting local talents is a policy issue Rohr should already be aware of and if he is not doing enough to meet those then one would expect them to be talking about this in a more serious intimate meetings devoid of media sensationalism.
Second; NO it is not 'picnic's job to provide a league with already made players capable of call ups to National team unless you don't want to realistic.

Bros Jette1; I disagree with you - Sir! Personally, I think it is the responsibility of Pinnick to manage the domestic football league, working in tandem with the coaches of the clubs to develop players who, hopefully will be tried by the national team.

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And the BIBLE says: The race is NOT for the swift, neither is the battle for the strong nor ... but time and chance makes them all.
Ecclesiastes 1:18: For in much wisdom is much grief and he that increases knowledge increases sorrow.


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 Post subject: Re: Pinnick my Hero
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:15 pm 
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Otitokoro,

I do not think that any one would claim that the local league has better players than players in Europe. However, there are still (periodically) very good players that can be found in the league and those have been able to go to Europe (Specifically to Scandinavian countries).

But to the point that you made on having them in the Super Eagles. My reading of Pinnick is that the issue is about money but on this thread that has not been mentioned at all.

However, if you read Pinnick's statement closely you will note that this is a money issue. Pinnick is, in fact, an Eurocentric guy and thus it is a surprise that he would even support the idea of using local guys. So what happened here?

First, note that he points to selecting a venue for home games and states that Rohr will not make the decision on a venue for the NFF. He is correct on that. All Rohr can do is provide advice. Pinnock notes that if a state is willing to fund a game by as much as 70% then it is likely that the NFF will go with the state's stadium. In this case, Pinnick claims that he is well aware that the Asaba stadium is one of the best (per the grounds) in Nigeria.

Second, he specifically cites the Seychelles game and wonders why Rohr would invite 24 players from Europe for such a game. It costs money! This is not the first time the NFF has frowned on this and they are somewhat correct. Why can't Rohr invite 16 players from Europe for such a game and the rest from the local league? After all, Rohr will never use more than 14 players in a competitive game, Seychelles or not? I do not think Pinnick will have any qualms if Rohr called up 24 top players from Europe if the funds were so easily accessible (note that Dalung, reportedly, has been holding up funds due to the NFF) and if we are talking about a tournament squad.

Otitokoro wrote:
Prof,
I read your article and it still does not contradict my argument that the foreign clubs would rather source their talent from Academies, vs. established local clubs. With reference to your comment on 'talent' any serious club would rather invest in someone who has the potential to grow their 'talent', vs someone whose 'talent' clearly has plateaued. That is the sole reason why most of these clubs would rather source from Academies.
Evidence of this is when you have the likes of Okpotu and Lakosa failing in trials for a Bulgarian Div 2 club and most recently, a Chinese Div 2 club. These were supposedly the top domestic league scorers and supposedly the best the domestic league had to offer!!!
So, this begs the question for the 'local player' protagonists: why would you want to force someone into the National team whose talent has plateaued and who has no hope of getting better?

Regarding the poor quality of the league: there was once-upon-a-time when players were sourced by big European clubs directly from our local leagues: the likes of Kanu, Oruma, Karibe Ojigwe, Gbenga Okunowo, Finidi George, etc. So, what happened?
Firstly, the quality of the league declined. Club follower-ship declined and the quality of our players left in the leagues declined significantly. I would argue that is still the case. All you need to do is watch some of the games and that will answer the question. Majority of our local league players are poor. That is why we are unable to make a significant impact at the continental level.
A lot of work needs to be done to improve the Nigerian league and this needs to be addressed first, before trying to force mediocre players into the Super Eagles. That approach will only hurt our quest to be one of the best teams in the world.
Enugu II wrote:
Otitokoro wrote:
The quality in the league is so poor that foreign teams are now looking towards the football academies when sourcing for talent.
It is a completely daft idea to superimpose local league players onto the Super Eagles coach for selection. Really, really dumb idea!


Otitokoro,

I was reading and enjoying the debate until I saw the above. What you stated above is not entirely correct if you are presuming that talent is the reason. It is deeper than talent. An European club is more likely to take an academy player who is actually less talented than an NPFL player!! Why? The presumption is that the academy player is younger and has potential and, thus, can start in a club's youth team with the future in mind. No such luxury for an NPFL player, bro. An NPFL player who must make the regular squad or will not be signed on. Consider also some restrictions regarding homegrown talent. In any case, here is a piece regarding the above:

https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2018/04/why-academy-route-players-make-it-to.html

_________________
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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 Post subject: Re: Pinnick my Hero
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:53 pm 
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Posts: 7514
Prof,
Will address some of the points you made:

Money:
Frankly, why should the coach be concerned about that? Rohr's job is to pick the very best candidates he feels would get the job done. Rohr's reasoning at the time (which I am in violent agreement with) is that we just prosecuted the world cup and it was time to refresh the squad with new younger talent. V. Moses decided to retire from the team and Mikel decided to go on sabbatical. We needed to prosecute the Seychelles game strongly, to ensure we got maximum points, hence he invited a strong squad. No mistakes. They got the job done! He also used the occasion (which was smart) to blood in new young talent - Samuel Kalu, Jamilu Collins, Semi Ajayi, Henry Onyekuru and Kelechi Nwakali. 4 of 5 seem to have now established themselves as mainstays in the team. If Rohr had followed the ridiculous mob chants regarding utilizing home-based players (who would have been there for the ride and nothing else - a complete waste of time and space), we would have lost out in seeing the aforementioned players in a competitive environment - players who had something tangible to offer and improve the SE's level of competitiveness!
Pinnick's job was to source for money to accomplish this objective. If you want to be the best, you damn well be ready to make the sacrifice, notwithstanding the cost or pain! Pinnick needs to get cracking with his promise of making the NFF financially independent. This is part of being self sufficient!!

Pitch Quality:
Rohr's job, in part, is to ensure that his players prosecute their matches in a safe, professional environment that would enable him get the best out of them, skill and potential wise. That includes ensuring that the work environment that they play their match(es) (i.e. football pitch) is to the very best standards possible. If, based on his observations and his professional opinion, the Asaba stadium's turf is not up to scratch, then he has EVERY right to voice his concerns (which he did) - just as he did with his inspection of the Kaduna Stadium prior to the game against Libya. That IS part of his job!
Now, the fact that Pinnick was trying to suck up to Delta Gov. Okowa's arse by saying the crap he did, just goes to show his level of stupidity. Again, Pinnick needs to kick start his NFF financial self-sufficiency campaign pronto, so he does not find himself in compromising situations where he has to be making promises that make him look silly in the future.

Enugu II wrote:
Otitokoro,

I do not think that any one would claim that the local league has better players than players in Europe. However, there are still (periodically) very good players that can be found in the league and those have been able to go to Europe (Specifically to Scandinavian countries).

But to the point that you made on having them in the Super Eagles. My reading of Pinnick is that the issue is about money but on this thread that has not been mentioned at all.

However, if you read Pinnick's statement closely you will note that this is a money issue. Pinnick is, in fact, an Eurocentric guy and thus it is a surprise that he would even support the idea of using local guys. So what happened here?

First, note that he points to selecting a venue for home games and states that Rohr will not make the decision on a venue for the NFF. He is correct on that. All Rohr can do is provide advice. Pinnock notes that if a state is willing to fund a game by as much as 70% then it is likely that the NFF will go with the state's stadium. In this case, Pinnick claims that he is well aware that the Asaba stadium is one of the best (per the grounds) in Nigeria.

Second, he specifically cites the Seychelles game and wonders why Rohr would invite 24 players from Europe for such a game. It costs money! This is not the first time the NFF has frowned on this and they are somewhat correct. Why can't Rohr invite 16 players from Europe for such a game and the rest from the local league? After all, Rohr will never use more than 14 players in a competitive game, Seychelles or not? I do not think Pinnick will have any qualms if Rohr called up 24 top players from Europe if the funds were so easily accessible (note that Dalung, reportedly, has been holding up funds due to the NFF) and if we are talking about a tournament squad.

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 Post subject: Re: Pinnick my Hero
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:21 pm 
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Otitokoro,

If everything was kosher, your points below would be in order. Unfortunately, reality is different. Even you, in Pinnick's shoes, may not do as you have stated below if you are running an organization under financial constraints. Financial consideration can never be thrown out of the window except where you are unconcerned for the future. Finances are important, bros. Thus, prudence should be and must be considered. TBH, Pinnick has been acting like there are no financial constraints and should have done better IMHO. For instance, Nigeria does not need to enter every possible competition including the likes of Futsal and beach soccer. Those funds can be best spent elsewhere. In the same way, I agree with Pinnick that you do not need 24 foreign-based players invited for a one-off game against Seychelles.You pointed out that he used the occasion to blood young guys and that a strong statement can be made. That statement can be made by inviting 16 players just as well. Only 14 will play according to the rules, you know. I have added 16 just for cover. The game being important is not in doubt. Fair enough but could that not have happened with 16 players from overseas or the blooding of young guys allowed him to use more than the 14 players allowed for the Seychelles' game?

On Rohr counseling about home field? There is nothing wrong with that but it is Pinnick's decision to make and not Rohr's. The earlier that is clarified, the better. Thus, I find nothing wrong in Pinnick letting the media know that it is his call to make and not Rohr's.

Otitokoro wrote:
Prof,
Will address some of the points you made:

Money:
Frankly, why should the coach be concerned about that? Rohr's job is to pick the very best candidates he feels would get the job done. Rohr's reasoning at the time (which I am in violent agreement with) is that we just prosecuted the world cup and it was time to refresh the squad with new younger talent. V. Moses decided to retire from the team and Mikel decided to go on sabbatical. We needed to prosecute the Seychelles game strongly, to ensure we got maximum points, hence he invited a strong squad. No mistakes. They got the job done! He also used the occasion (which was smart) to blood in new young talent - Samuel Kalu, Jamilu Collins, Semi Ajayi, Henry Onyekuru and Kelechi Nwakali. 4 of 5 seem to have now established themselves as mainstays in the team. If Rohr had followed the ridiculous mob chants regarding utilizing home-based players (who would have been there for the ride and nothing else - a complete waste of time and space), we would have lost out in seeing the aforementioned players in a competitive environment - players who had something tangible to offer and improve the SE's level of competitiveness!
Pinnick's job was to source for money to accomplish this objective. If you want to be the best, you damn well be ready to make the sacrifice, notwithstanding the cost or pain! Pinnick needs to get cracking with his promise of making the NFF financially independent. This is part of being self sufficient!!

Pitch Quality:
Rohr's job, in part, is to ensure that his players prosecute their matches in a safe, professional environment that would enable him get the best out of them, skill and potential wise. That includes ensuring that the work environment that they play their match(es) (i.e. football pitch) is to the very best standards possible. If, based on his observations and his professional opinion, the Asaba stadium's turf is not up to scratch, then he has EVERY right to voice his concerns (which he did) - just as he did with his inspection of the Kaduna Stadium prior to the game against Libya. That IS part of his job!
Now, the fact that Pinnick was trying to suck up to Delta Gov. Okowa's arse by saying the crap he did, just goes to show his level of stupidity. Again, Pinnick needs to kick start his NFF financial self-sufficiency campaign pronto, so he does not find himself in compromising situations where he has to be making promises that make him look silly in the future.

Enugu II wrote:
Otitokoro,

I do not think that any one would claim that the local league has better players than players in Europe. However, there are still (periodically) very good players that can be found in the league and those have been able to go to Europe (Specifically to Scandinavian countries).

But to the point that you made on having them in the Super Eagles. My reading of Pinnick is that the issue is about money but on this thread that has not been mentioned at all.

However, if you read Pinnick's statement closely you will note that this is a money issue. Pinnick is, in fact, an Eurocentric guy and thus it is a surprise that he would even support the idea of using local guys. So what happened here?

First, note that he points to selecting a venue for home games and states that Rohr will not make the decision on a venue for the NFF. He is correct on that. All Rohr can do is provide advice. Pinnock notes that if a state is willing to fund a game by as much as 70% then it is likely that the NFF will go with the state's stadium. In this case, Pinnick claims that he is well aware that the Asaba stadium is one of the best (per the grounds) in Nigeria.

Second, he specifically cites the Seychelles game and wonders why Rohr would invite 24 players from Europe for such a game. It costs money! This is not the first time the NFF has frowned on this and they are somewhat correct. Why can't Rohr invite 16 players from Europe for such a game and the rest from the local league? After all, Rohr will never use more than 14 players in a competitive game, Seychelles or not? I do not think Pinnick will have any qualms if Rohr called up 24 top players from Europe if the funds were so easily accessible (note that Dalung, reportedly, has been holding up funds due to the NFF) and if we are talking about a tournament squad.

_________________
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics


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 Post subject: Re: Pinnick my Hero
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:31 pm 
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Otitokoro wrote:
Aruako1,
I agree with you that the performance of Nigerian clubs in the continent cannot be the sole determinant of the ability of the local players. I believe CAF recognized that and hence the advent of competitions like WAFU Nations Cup and the CHAN Nations Cup, specifically geared towards local players, as I referenced in my initial post.

I disagree with your reference to Zambia as an example, as it is not relevant to the Nigerian scenario. For one, Zambia most certainly does not have anywhere close to the number of Nigerians playing professional football outside it shores. Even at that, if you look at the lineup of the Zambian team, it is laden with their South African based players. That being said, Zambia simply has no other choice but to source domestically.

Selection for our National team should NEVER be based on compassion or sentiment. It should be based on the simple question: who are the VERY BEST candidates for the job? The answer is our foreign based professionals, pure and simple! For the locals, they can always aspire to play for the Super Eagles Team B. If they are able to prove themselves and excel there, then they may be considered (like Lekan Adeleye, Ike Ezenwa, Stephen Eze and others).

Aruako1 wrote:
Otitokoro wrote:
Trying to force fit local players into the Super Eagles is nothing short of a concerted effort to denigrate the quality of the SE. It is obvious that the Local players are sub standard - every measurable metric points to this:
- very poor club performances at the continental level.
- the so called 'great' players (e.g. Okpotu and Lakosa) have repeatedly failed to secure contracts in any credible league overseas, even in countries that don't have reputable leagues.

FACT: The job of the SE Coach is to present the nations best players available to prosecute matches, wherever they may be, and not to use a quota system to select candidates. The job of the NFF is to create and develop a credible league. Trying to conflate the two is extremely dumb.

FACT: It is pretty obvious to football enthusiasts that our best players all ply their trades beyond our shores - i.e. Foreign based. Any argument to the countrary is nothing short of disingenuous.

The local players have MORE THAN ENOUGH competitions currently, to showcase whatever skills they have to the rest of the world:
1. African Champions League and Cup club competitions
2. WAFU Cup Club competitions
3. WAFU Nations Cup Competitions
4. CHAN Nations Competitions.
That should suffice!!

Don't understand the selfish drive on the part of some to intentionally dilute the quality of the SE with mediocre players? If Pinnick supposedly said that, then I am deeply disappointed in his pandering to the wants and desires of those who do not wish Nigerian football well.



The performance of Nigerian clubs in the continent cannot be the sole determinant of the ability of the local players. Zambian clubs do not light it up but still provide a significant proportion of their national team players. One of the issues for Nigerian clubs is that you have the best players in the league spread almost evenly throughout the club's while in certain other leagues such as Egypt, Morocco, and Congo DR the best players are often found in 2 or 3 clubs. Pinnick is correct that local players should at least be considered for certain games.


I do not advocate for the selection of Nigerian based players just for compassion. There is a merit to selecting some local players especially when you play African opposition. This is not the best example but the Enyimba team of the mid-2000s would not have lost to Angola in the 2006 WCQ. Local players bring another perspective and of we are playing Seychelles I totally agree with Pinnick that a few should have made the squad.


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 Post subject: Re: Pinnick my Hero
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:18 am 
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Damunk wrote:
It is more a requirement of Pinnick to provide a league of a high enough standard to produce players good enough for Rohr's attention than it is for Rohr to produce local league players good enough for Pinnick's pride and joy, the senior national team.


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 Post subject: Re: Pinnick my Hero
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:37 am 
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You forgot to mention that except for Isaac success, most Naija academy players were picked up dirt cheap with no sign on benefit to the academy


Enugu II wrote:
Otitokoro wrote:
The quality in the league is so poor that foreign teams are now looking towards the football academies when sourcing for talent.
It is a completely daft idea to superimpose local league players onto the Super Eagles coach for selection. Really, really dumb idea!


Otitokoro,

I was reading and enjoying the debate until I saw the above. What you stated above is not entirely correct if you are presuming that talent is the reason. It is deeper than talent. An European club is more likely to take an academy player who is actually less talented than an NPFL player!! Why? The presumption is that the academy player is younger and has potential and, thus, can start in a club's youth team with the future in mind. No such luxury for an NPFL player, bro. An NPFL player who must make the regular squad or will not be signed on. Consider also some restrictions regarding homegrown talent. In any case, here is a piece regarding the above:

https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2018/04/why-academy-route-players-make-it-to.html


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