Ademola and Sheyi Ojo will soon join the SE family

[Cmoke]

Chineke,

How dis Gotti pikin know and remember all dis small small things?

Cmoke

Meanwhile, it is those youths that were not really the superstars of the youth teams - Ndidi, Success, Chukwueze that seem to be excelling.

Ndidi was the SKIPPER of the team before being disqualified by MRI on the eve of the Africa U17...
Meanwhile, Success LED the Africa U17 goalscorers chart, after LEADING the Eaglets in the qualifiers...
While Chukwueze won the Bronze Boot at the World U17 and was among the BEST Eaglets performers.

It is patently misguided to equate or to otherwise seek to conflate the quality of individual players with the overall 'strength' of any league (whether real or perceived - because the NPFL is distinctly different from the leagues in countries where virtually all home-based talent is concentrated in 1 or 2 clubs, and which do not lose the best players midway into CAF campaigns to Europe or recurring trials abroad). For goodness sakes, neither the Saudi, Chinese, Cypriot leagues nor the Croatian second division, each of which have seen players called up for the SE under Rohr, are exactly "strong" leagues.

[fledy]

Gotti you dis wicked somebody with big big oyinbo.
Your memory na wa o!!

[Damunk]

For the avoidance of any doubt...
I am all for granting opportunities to all eligible Nigerians, but!

Keshi and co invited local talent but they were all flashes in the pan.
Mba - where he dey today?
Oboabona - where him dey
Oshaniwa - where is he?
Egwueke - where him sef dey?
They've all disappeared without a trace.

Where's Lukman Haruna sef? Where's Rabiu Ibrahim? Nosa Igiegbor? Obiorah Nwankwo? Where's Simy Nwankwo of yesterday's WC sef? We could go on with this childish charade, but what has any of it to do with being home-based or foreign-based?

True talent doesn't fade so fast. That's why one has to keep an open mind about these FB Nigerians. They are not aliens. Even our local youth talent are not necessarily excelling. See Iheanacho. See the Nwakali brothers. See Yahaya. See Chidera. I no see dem. Even Osimhen is only just beginning to show his skills.

But you managed to see Francis Uzoho? Wilfred Ndidi? Isaac Success? Samuel Chukwueze?
Dude quit cherry-picking in a desperate bid to support an argument based on partisan sophistry. SMH

I am not sure what you are getting angsty about, but I do have a vague notion that the perennial HB/FB debate really gets you going.
"For the avoidance of doubt", I am also all for giving opportunity to all our players and I am NOT one of those forever talking down local talent in favour of FBs - whether players or coaches.
So don't come at me with the hair on the back of your neck bristling, seeing nothing but 'sophistry' in my argument.
Relax.

My position is clear and simple.
1. Our national league isn't optimally producing the talent it should be producing for a number of reasons which I will not patronize you by breaking down. If you choose to deny even that, then let's just agree to disagree now and end the conversation.
2. The exodus of our talent is undeniable and has gone from a trickle in the days of Keshi to a flood today. Again, you can live in denial of that, but I doubt you will.

For you to now argue that "It is patently misguided to equate or to otherwise seek to conflate the quality of individual players with the overall 'strength' of any league" is disingenuous in itself.
You very well DO know that in today's commercial game, the best talent is sucked up by the better and richer leagues regionally and globally and there is a general understanding that the rating of any league is pretty much a fair barometer of the quality of players in that league. That's not to say there aren't always new gems to pick, but it gets to the point that the bottom of the barrel starts becoming visible.
So I don't know what you are talking about.

We all rooted for Egwueke, Mba, Oboabona, Odunlami and the rest of them to make it into some of the world's elite leagues via the SE but they didn't and that was that. Cream will rise to the top, but our cream turned out to be another man's lard. We should continue to try, but what we don't want to do is to start applying some kind of 'quota' system based on Local/FB loyalties.

As for Ndidi dem, you have a point that they were elite youth players but even of those, few will make it through the transition to the very top of the adult game and my point is that even FIFA MVP's like Iheanacho and Nwakali are not guaranteed it either. Its not "cherry-picking", it is illustrating the unpredictability of the game.
Am I saying anything new here?
Of course not.

[wale1974]

We should watch out for Kingsley Michael, a midfielder with Serie B Perugia on loan from Bologna.
He's tearing the league apart and should be back with his parent team, Bologna, next season.
Also there's Igbekeme from Real Zaragoza, he's receiving rave reviews from the Spanish press.

Seth Sincere at RB too.

[wale1974]

2 bench warmers lookman and ojo

Do you know how silly you sound?

[Gotti]

For you to now argue that "It is patently misguided to equate or to otherwise seek to conflate the quality of individual players with the overall 'strength' of any league" is disingenuous in itself.
You very well DO know that in today's commercial game, the best talent is sucked up by the better and richer leagues regionally and globally and there is a general understanding that the rating of any league is pretty much a fair barometer of the quality of players in that league. That's not to say there aren't always new gems to pick, but it gets to the point that the bottom of the barrel starts becoming visible.
So I don't know what you are talking about.

Again, you keep attempting (either disingenuously or simply misguidedly) to conflate the top leagues having the best players as synonymous with players being in weaker leagues not being good enough, when both are NOT mutually-exclusive.

Etebo was in the NPFL when he became an SE player, and the NPFL has NOT gotten weaker in the interim (in fact, it has arguably gotten much stronger). Until just recently the SE had a STARTER playing in the Cypriot league when we had players in nominally 'stronger' leagues (heck, even the NPFL is better than the Cypriot league). Brazil regularly selects players from its own 'weaker' league even though it could comfortably field a couple of teams from Brazilians in the strongest leagues globally. Even in that England that you reside in, Gareth Southgate has picked players from the weaker Championship league even though there are more than enough English players in the stronger EPL. Again, one could proceed infinitum with similar examples, but one suspect it would merely elicit more polemic sophistry (and Strawman Arguments, such as "quota" system) in response.

Nigerian players move primarily for ECONOMIC reasons (as one suspects that you did as well) and as relatively limited opportunities present themselves (for example, Ndidi only secured a contract in Belgium because his Nigerian academy agreed to accept a scandalously paltry $78,000 transfer fee - and if they did not he would have still been stuck in Nigeria, regardless of his quality) as much as for any professional reasons. Accordingly, that someone winds himself in a weaker league does not necessarily equate to being of a lower quality than someone (not to mention everyone) playing in stronger leagues. Ultimately, each prospect should be considered based on his INDIVIDUAL quality, and frankly anyone (including coaches) who precipitously writes-off players simply based on the league they play in is just being DUMB and LAZY!

[Gotti]

BTW, for every home-based player who failed to ultimately make the cut, or to make it to the elite leagues, there are SCORES of foreign-based players similarly placed - so don't quite get why you keep regurgitating that argument. Heck, even our current skipper could not cut it in said elite league(s) and has since skipped on to the (arguably "weaker" than the NPFL) Saudi league.

[Orion]

If the argument is about local scouting, didn't Rohr lose his phone recently at Asaba scouting players in the cup final between Enugu Rangers and Kano Pillars?

At least he is watching local games in person but I'm sure he would have local scouts watching the NPFL to bring him player recommendations. Maybe they're just not seeing players in the local league that are BETTER than the guys they already have for each position.

[maceo4]

If the argument is about local scouting, didn't Rohr lose his phone recently at Asaba scouting players in the cup final between Enugu Rangers and Kano Pillars?

At least he is watching local games in person but I'm sure he would have local scouts watching the NPFL to bring him player recommendations. Maybe they're just not seeing players in the local league that are BETTER than the guys they already have for each position.

Probably right, what would be more productive is putting together a list of HB players that would be able to push out the current FB players Rohr invited. But the NFF itself (not Rohr) needs to continue to focus on developing the local game so that we have viable options at home rather than always resorting to begging players to switch allegiance to us.

[Damunk]

For you to now argue that "It is patently misguided to equate or to otherwise seek to conflate the quality of individual players with the overall 'strength' of any league" is disingenuous in itself.
You very well DO know that in today's commercial game, the best talent is sucked up by the better and richer leagues regionally and globally and there is a general understanding that the rating of any league is pretty much a fair barometer of the quality of players in that league. That's not to say there aren't always new gems to pick, but it gets to the point that the bottom of the barrel starts becoming visible.
So I don't know what you are talking about.

Again, you keep attempting (either disingenuously or simply misguidedly) to conflate the top leagues having the best players as synonymous with players being in weaker leagues not being good enough, when both are NOT mutually-exclusive.

Etebo was in the NPFL when he became an SE player, and the NPFL has NOT gotten weaker in the interim (in fact, it has arguably gotten much stronger). Until just recently the SE had a STARTER playing in the Cypriot league when we had players in nominally 'stronger' leagues (heck, even the NPFL is better than the Cypriot league). Brazil regularly selects players from its own 'weaker' league even though it could comfortably field a couple of teams from Brazilians in the strongest leagues globally. Even in that England that you reside in, Gareth Southgate has picked players from the weaker Championship league even though there are more than enough English players in the stronger EPL. Again, one could proceed infinitum with similar examples, but one suspect it would merely elicit more polemic sophistry (and Strawman Arguments, such as "quota" system) in response.

Nigerian players move primarily for ECONOMIC reasons (as one suspects that you did as well) and as relatively limited opportunities present themselves (for example, Ndidi only secured a contract in Belgium because his Nigerian academy agreed to accept a scandalously paltry $78,000 transfer fee - and if they did not he would have still been stuck in Nigeria, regardless of his quality) as much as for any professional reasons. Accordingly, that someone winds himself in a weaker league does not necessarily equate to being of a lower quality than someone (not to mention everyone) playing in stronger leagues. Ultimately, each prospect should be considered based on his INDIVIDUAL quality, and frankly anyone (including coaches) who precipitously writes-off players simply based on the league they play in is just being DUMB and LAZY!

'Zokay now.
Let's move on.

[Orion]

If the argument is about local scouting, didn't Rohr lose his phone recently at Asaba scouting players in the cup final between Enugu Rangers and Kano Pillars?

At least he is watching local games in person but I'm sure he would have local scouts watching the NPFL to bring him player recommendations. Maybe they're just not seeing players in the local league that are BETTER than the guys they already have for each position.

Probably right, what would be more productive is putting together a list of HB players that would be able to push out the current FB players Rohr invited.

Isn't that what the CHAN is for? Didn't we see the best of our local league in the CHAN team? I'm sure if Rohr needs to put a list together of home-based players he would have no problems. He's already seen them at the CHAN. The CHAN coach was also part of his coaching staff until the bribery thing. There is already a structure in place for scouting local players and giving them a platform with international games to show what they can do.

I agree with you that the local league needs to be improved but that's the job of the NFF.

[Orion]

I think we may be underestimating the amount of scouting really going on in Nigeria.

There is constant scouting for the following teams:
- U17 team
- U20 team
- U23 team
- CHAN team

With this amount of scouting going on constantly, the dragnet will catch most of the talent in the NPFL worth looking at, don't you think?

[Damunk]

If the argument is about local scouting, didn't Rohr lose his phone recently at Asaba scouting players in the cup final between Enugu Rangers and Kano Pillars?

At least he is watching local games in person but I'm sure he would have local scouts watching the NPFL to bring him player recommendations. Maybe they're just not seeing players in the local league that are BETTER than the guys they already have for each position.

Probably right, what would be more productive is putting together a list of HB players that would be able to push out the current FB players Rohr invited.

Isn't that what the CHAN is for? Didn't we see the best of our local league in the CHAN team? I'm sure if Rohr needs to put a list together of home-based players he would have no problems. He's already seen them at the CHAN. The CHAN coach was also part of his coaching staff until the bribery thing. There is already a structure in place for scouting local players and giving them a platform with international games to show what they can do.

I agree with you that the local league needs to be improved but that's the job of the NFF.

Please, help us remind dem once more again.
Seems everyone has forgotten or they have developed some kind of selective memory loss.

[maceo4]

If the argument is about local scouting, didn't Rohr lose his phone recently at Asaba scouting players in the cup final between Enugu Rangers and Kano Pillars?

At least he is watching local games in person but I'm sure he would have local scouts watching the NPFL to bring him player recommendations. Maybe they're just not seeing players in the local league that are BETTER than the guys they already have for each position.

Probably right, what would be more productive is putting together a list of HB players that would be able to push out the current FB players Rohr invited.

Isn't that what the CHAN is for? Didn't we see the best of our local league in the CHAN team? I'm sure if Rohr needs to put a list together of home-based players he would have no problems. He's already seen them at the CHAN. The CHAN coach was also part of his coaching staff until the bribery thing. There is already a structure in place for scouting local players and giving them a platform with international games to show what they can do.

I agree with you that the local league needs to be improved but that's the job of the NFF.

Can you put together a list of current HB players better than the current FB ones Rohr selected. I think that would be a good start.

[Damunk]

If the argument is about local scouting, didn't Rohr lose his phone recently at Asaba scouting players in the cup final between Enugu Rangers and Kano Pillars?

At least he is watching local games in person but I'm sure he would have local scouts watching the NPFL to bring him player recommendations. Maybe they're just not seeing players in the local league that are BETTER than the guys they already have for each position.

Probably right, what would be more productive is putting together a list of HB players that would be able to push out the current FB players Rohr invited.

Isn't that what the CHAN is for? Didn't we see the best of our local league in the CHAN team? I'm sure if Rohr needs to put a list together of home-based players he would have no problems. He's already seen them at the CHAN. The CHAN coach was also part of his coaching staff until the bribery thing. There is already a structure in place for scouting local players and giving them a platform with international games to show what they can do.

I agree with you that the local league needs to be improved but that's the job of the NFF.

Can you put together a list of current HB players better than the current FB ones Rohr selected. I think that would be a good start.

I'm not sure Orion is making that argument.
He is simply pointing out the fact that there are already structures in place to identify local players.
If Rohr isn't finding local players good enough to keep out other eligible players from abroad, then its not for anyone to try and force his hand.
If you hand him the coaching job, then you hand him the right to choose whoever he deems best for the team. Simple.

[maceo4]

If the argument is about local scouting, didn't Rohr lose his phone recently at Asaba scouting players in the cup final between Enugu Rangers and Kano Pillars?

At least he is watching local games in person but I'm sure he would have local scouts watching the NPFL to bring him player recommendations. Maybe they're just not seeing players in the local league that are BETTER than the guys they already have for each position.

Probably right, what would be more productive is putting together a list of HB players that would be able to push out the current FB players Rohr invited.

Isn't that what the CHAN is for? Didn't we see the best of our local league in the CHAN team? I'm sure if Rohr needs to put a list together of home-based players he would have no problems. He's already seen them at the CHAN. The CHAN coach was also part of his coaching staff until the bribery thing. There is already a structure in place for scouting local players and giving them a platform with international games to show what they can do.

I agree with you that the local league needs to be improved but that's the job of the NFF.

Can you put together a list of current HB players better than the current FB ones Rohr selected. I think that would be a good start.

I'm not sure Orion is making that argument.
He is simply pointing out the fact that there are already structures in place to identify local players.
If Rohr isn't finding local players good enough to keep out other eligible players from abroad, then its not for anyone to try and force his hand.
If you hand him the coaching job, then you hand him the right to choose whoever he deems best for the team. Simple.

So he's in agreement with me, so I'm wondering why he responded in such a way to my statement. All I was saying was instead of blindly saying we need HB in our team (trying to force the coaches hand), provide a list of the HB ones that are better than the FB ones Rohr is selecting then we can continue the conversation. And I even specifically said the NFF and not Rohr are the ones responsible for developing our local game.

[Damunk]

If the argument is about local scouting, didn't Rohr lose his phone recently at Asaba scouting players in the cup final between Enugu Rangers and Kano Pillars?

At least he is watching local games in person but I'm sure he would have local scouts watching the NPFL to bring him player recommendations. Maybe they're just not seeing players in the local league that are BETTER than the guys they already have for each position.

Probably right, what would be more productive is putting together a list of HB players that would be able to push out the current FB players Rohr invited.

Isn't that what the CHAN is for? Didn't we see the best of our local league in the CHAN team? I'm sure if Rohr needs to put a list together of home-based players he would have no problems. He's already seen them at the CHAN. The CHAN coach was also part of his coaching staff until the bribery thing. There is already a structure in place for scouting local players and giving them a platform with international games to show what they can do.

I agree with you that the local league needs to be improved but that's the job of the NFF.

Can you put together a list of current HB players better than the current FB ones Rohr selected. I think that would be a good start.

I'm not sure Orion is making that argument.
He is simply pointing out the fact that there are already structures in place to identify local players.
If Rohr isn't finding local players good enough to keep out other eligible players from abroad, then its not for anyone to try and force his hand.
If you hand him the coaching job, then you hand him the right to choose whoever he deems best for the team. Simple.

So he's in agreement with me, so I'm wondering why he responded in such a way to my statement. All I was saying was instead of blindly saying we need HB in our team (trying to force the coaches hand), provide a list of the HB ones that are better than the FB ones Rohr is selecting then we can continue the conversation. And I even specifically said the NFF and not Rohr are the ones responsible for developing our local game.

Yes, I think you're both in agreement.
Someone also misread a post of mine on the same matter last week, thinking I was saying Rohr should be responsible for producing talent for the NT, whereas I was saying the direct opposite.

[Orion]

So he's in agreement with me, so I'm wondering why he responded in such a way to my statement. All I was saying was instead of blindly saying we need HB in our team (trying to force the coaches hand), provide a list of the HB ones that are better than the FB ones Rohr is selecting then we can continue the conversation. And I even specifically said the NFF and not Rohr are the ones responsible for developing our local game.

OK, I'm in agreement with you. I misread your post and thought you were saying Rohr should produce a list of local players to compete with the FB guys.

[maceo4]

So he's in agreement with me, so I'm wondering why he responded in such a way to my statement. All I was saying was instead of blindly saying we need HB in our team (trying to force the coaches hand), provide a list of the HB ones that are better than the FB ones Rohr is selecting then we can continue the conversation. And I even specifically said the NFF and not Rohr are the ones responsible for developing our local game.

OK, I'm in agreement with you. I misread your post and thought you were saying Rohr should produce a list of local players to compete with the FB guys.

We can't just keep saying we need HB unless we can point to the ones that would help our team. People were calling for Afelokhai (sp) and now he's been chosen to fight for a starting spot. Me personally I think we should look at Ikouwem for the LB spot as we are struggling to find genuine left footers there (can't stand Idowu there). Other than that I don't think we have a Musa or Etebo that are lighting up the local league enough to attract SE interest.

http://www.espn.com/soccer/nigeria/stor ... k-solution

https://owngoalnigeria.com/2018/02/06/r ... march-7th/

[wiseone]

I actually think a playmaker is the core need. Apart from Mikel, we have very few players that can retain possession in tight spaces under pressure and play incisive passes that hurt the opposition.

Nice one Tobi17.
I really hope we can unearth a few more top central defenders though.

Its increasingly obvious that the benchmark for the SE midfield/striker departments is getting higher and higher. But I still think our defense could do with a few more really top performers to push up the bar.
I'm grateful for Balogun and Omeruo and hope they continue to improve but what would I give for a great central defender or two!

[Orion]

So he's in agreement with me, so I'm wondering why he responded in such a way to my statement. All I was saying was instead of blindly saying we need HB in our team (trying to force the coaches hand), provide a list of the HB ones that are better than the FB ones Rohr is selecting then we can continue the conversation. And I even specifically said the NFF and not Rohr are the ones responsible for developing our local game.

OK, I'm in agreement with you. I misread your post and thought you were saying Rohr should produce a list of local players to compete with the FB guys.

We can't just keep saying we need HB unless we can point to the ones that would help our team. People were calling for Afelokhai (sp) and now he's been chosen to fight for a starting spot. Me personally I think we should look at Ikouwem for the LB spot as we are struggling to find genuine left footers there (can't stand Idowu there). Other than that I don't think we have a Musa or Etebo that are lighting up the local league enough to attract SE interest.

http://www.espn.com/soccer/nigeria/stor ... k-solution

https://owngoalnigeria.com/2018/02/06/r ... march-7th/

Yes, the defence and especially the goalkeeper, are areas where we badly need more options. Afelokhai needs to be given a chance in one of the friendly games.

[DIMKA76]

So he's in agreement with me, so I'm wondering why he responded in such a way to my statement. All I was saying was instead of blindly saying we need HB in our team (trying to force the coaches hand), provide a list of the HB ones that are better than the FB ones Rohr is selecting then we can continue the conversation. And I even specifically said the NFF and not Rohr are the ones responsible for developing our local game.

OK, I'm in agreement with you. I misread your post and thought you were saying Rohr should produce a list of local players to compete with the FB guys.

We can't just keep saying we need HB unless we can point to the ones that would help our team. People were calling for Afelokhai (sp) and now he's been chosen to fight for a starting spot. Me personally I think we should look at Ikouwem for the LB spot as we are struggling to find genuine left footers there (can't stand Idowu there). Other than that I don't think we have a Musa or Etebo that are lighting up the local league enough to attract SE interest.

http://www.espn.com/soccer/nigeria/stor ... k-solution

https://owngoalnigeria.com/2018/02/06/r ... march-7th/

Yes, the defence and especially the goalkeeper, are areas where we badly need more options. Afelokhai needs to be given a chance in one of the friendly games.

You would think that's what friendlies were meant for. I'd be thoroughly surprised and disappointed if Rohr didn't use him at some point against Uganda.