Nigeria Qualifies: Report + Ratings

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Re: Nigeria Qualifies: Report + Ratings

Post by mcal »

...the 2 offside goals called back against the SE were both legit.
One in the 1st, the other in the second half.
I hope both assistant refs are reviewed properly.
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Shocking how empty the stadium was! One would have thought this match was a big draw.
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Re: Nigeria Qualifies: Report + Ratings

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Disagree with Pau being the best player on the pitch, although his move for the goal could be said to justify a sentimental choice.

He looked threatening all day, but overall he offered little end product- the assist and a thru ball that Musa helped defend.

For me, I'll choose Iwobi. Had a hand in all three legit goals by Nigeria and his deeper position in 2HF allowed Nigeria control the game in a game management phase, even with less possession.
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Re: Nigeria Qualifies: Report + Ratings

Post by icee »

mcal wrote:...the 2 offside goals called back against the SE were both legit.
One in the 1st, the other in the second half.
I hope both assistant refs are reviewed properly.
Yes - I thought the same thing too that this assistant ref's need to be very carefully reviewed. I remember seeing it (the second goal) in real time and was like....seriously...I didn't need replay and didn't think it was even a close call. I could see it immediately as I commented in the game post at the time. We need VAR badly in CAF.
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Re: Nigeria Qualifies: Report + Ratings

Post by Enugu II »

txj wrote:Disagree with Pau being the best player on the pitch, although his move for the goal could be said to justify a sentimental choice.

He looked threatening all day, but overall he offered little end product- the assist and a thru ball that Musa helped defend.

For me, I'll choose Iwobi. Had a hand in all three legit goals by Nigeria and his deeper position in 2HF allowed Nigeria control the game in a game management phase, even with less possession.
Txj,

I thought Tau was clearly the most influential player on the field and was often part of anything the South Africans did going forward. I do not think Iwobi's play was anywhere close to his best game for Nigeria. He gave the ball up to opponents numerous times. For me, Musa was the best Nigerian player on the day. Could have had two goals if not for the ball calls and he repeatedly molested the South African defense with his runs. Made far less turnovers as well. We certainly have different views of the game. I know you thought highly of Balogun's play in the game but I really think he was quite average and was no better than Omeruo whom you thought was awful.

What did you think of Kalu's play?
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Re: Nigeria Qualifies: Report + Ratings

Post by theYemster »

Abbey wrote:Here is why the linesman flagged Musa for offside. If you look at the video again, Musa was initially in offside position BEFORE he received the ball. When he became the first player to receive the ball onside, the linesman waived the flag.
On the other hand the first half 'offside' goal should have counted. Musa did receive the ball onside before passing the ball to an open Iheanacho for a tap in.
I disagree. Both players were onside at the time the pass was made. Musa tracked back onside well on time.

Both goals were legit.
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Re: Nigeria Qualifies: Report + Ratings

Post by theYemster »

mcal wrote:...the 2 offside goals called back against the SE were both legit.
One in the 1st, the other in the second half.
I hope both assistant refs are reviewed properly.
If they're offside then they can't be legit. :D You probably meant to say "the two goals called for offside..."
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Re: Nigeria Qualifies: Report + Ratings

Post by Abbey »

Gotti wrote:
Abbey wrote:The highlight only showed Musa when he was onside and briefly after he was offside. I am looking at the full replay again and yes he was the first player to touch Iwobi's splitting pass. Now, if Success had gotten hold of that pass no doubt the goal will count.
Bros, the KEY is where the players was WHEN the ball was actually played...
FREEZE the clip at 10.08, the moment Iwobi played the ball (the pass), the defender kept Musa ONSIDE.
Upon further review I was wrong. Thanks for the clarification.
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Re: Nigeria Qualifies: Report + Ratings

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Enugu II wrote:
txj wrote:Disagree with Pau being the best player on the pitch, although his move for the goal could be said to justify a sentimental choice.

He looked threatening all day, but overall he offered little end product- the assist and a thru ball that Musa helped defend.

For me, I'll choose Iwobi. Had a hand in all three legit goals by Nigeria and his deeper position in 2HF allowed Nigeria control the game in a game management phase, even with less possession.
Txj,

I thought Tau was clearly the most influential player on the field and was often part of anything the South Africans did going forward. I do not think Iwobi's play was anywhere close to his best game for Nigeria. He gave the ball up to opponents numerous times. For me, Musa was the best Nigerian player on the day. Could have had two goals if not for the ball calls and he repeatedly molested the South African defense with his runs. Made far less turnovers as well. We certainly have different views of the game. I know you thought highly of Balogun's play in the game but I really think he was quite average and was no better than Omeruo whom you thought was awful.

What did you think of Kalu's play?
To each his own I guess. For me Pau is the pretty girl who in the end delivers, not enough to match the looks.

Yes Alex had turnovers esp in 2HF when he started to tire, but he had a hand in all three legit goals by the SE. His positioning in the 1HF, undermined the SA game plan repeatedly and gave the SE the edge in MF.

But it wasn't just this. it was ESP his work in the 2HF in the game management phase, which meant Nigeria controlled the game with two different tactical approaches in each half, each centered on Alex.

That's what a MOM performance looks like to me, not atilogwu dance moves that yield little...

On Kalu, was impressed by him going fwd in the 1HF, and his understanding of his role, although helped greatly by Balogun. I though however that he should've moved up earlier in 2HF.

Hopefully we can get Lookman on board soon...
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We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: Nigeria Qualifies: Report + Ratings

Post by mcal »

theYemster wrote:
mcal wrote:...the 2 offside goals called back against the SE were both legit.
One in the 1st, the other in the second half.
I hope both assistant refs are reviewed properly.
If they're offside then they can't be legit. :D You probably meant to say "the two goals called for offside..."
..."the 2 offside called goals...", you're on the money. Glad we qualified or else should have been serious talking point.
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Re: Nigeria Qualifies: Report + Ratings

Post by mcal »

icee wrote:
mcal wrote:...the 2 offside goals called back against the SE were both legit.
One in the 1st, the other in the second half.
I hope both assistant refs are reviewed properly.
Yes - I thought the same thing too that this assistant ref's need to be very carefully reviewed. I remember seeing it (the second goal) in real time and was like....seriously...I didn't need replay and didn't think it was even a close call. I could see it immediately as I commented in the game post at the time. We need VAR badly in CAF.
...exactamente!
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Re: Nigeria Qualifies: Report + Ratings

Post by Enugu II »

txj wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
txj wrote:Disagree with Pau being the best player on the pitch, although his move for the goal could be said to justify a sentimental choice.

He looked threatening all day, but overall he offered little end product- the assist and a thru ball that Musa helped defend.

For me, I'll choose Iwobi. Had a hand in all three legit goals by Nigeria and his deeper position in 2HF allowed Nigeria control the game in a game management phase, even with less possession.
Txj,

I thought Tau was clearly the most influential player on the field and was often part of anything the South Africans did going forward. I do not think Iwobi's play was anywhere close to his best game for Nigeria. He gave the ball up to opponents numerous times. For me, Musa was the best Nigerian player on the day. Could have had two goals if not for the ball calls and he repeatedly molested the South African defense with his runs. Made far less turnovers as well. We certainly have different views of the game. I know you thought highly of Balogun's play in the game but I really think he was quite average and was no better than Omeruo whom you thought was awful.

What did you think of Kalu's play?
To each his own I guess. For me Pau is the pretty girl who in the end delivers, not enough to match the looks.

Yes Alex had turnovers esp in 2HF when he started to tire, but he had a hand in all three legit goals by the SE. His positioning in the 1HF, undermined the SA game plan repeatedly and gave the SE the edge in MF.

But it wasn't just this. it was ESP his work in the 2HF in the game management phase, which meant Nigeria controlled the game with two different tactical approaches in each half, each centered on Alex.

That's what a MOM performance looks like to me, not atilogwu dance moves that yield little...

On Kalu, was impressed by him going fwd in the 1HF, and his understanding of his role, although helped greatly by Balogun. I though however that he should've moved up earlier in 2HF.

Hopefully we can get Lookman on board soon...
Txj,

Certainly we had different views of the game. There is certainly no doubt. Your view that Iwobi had a hand in all three SE goals is a bit overboard. I suppose this means that he was significant in all those three occurrences. Can you describe how he did? As far as I recollect he had a hand in the second disallowed goal but not in the first disallowed goal and the goal that was given. Yes, he played deeper in the second half but his turnover rate was far ore than should be expected. I believe he could have been taken off just after the half and the fact that he was not was possibly because there was no one on the bench that can pull the strings as only he could from that position going forward. An indictment on the personnel available for the game.

In any case, please explain your claim that he had a hand in all three unless you watched an entirely different game. This is something that can be easily verified via match video. In any case, I hope you are not confusing him with Etebo or Iheanacho or Musa in the case of the first disallowed goal (off foul on Etebo who actually won the ball and took the kick) or with Iheanacho and Kalu on the goal. If Iwobi's pass to Iheanacho on the goal is having a hand (going back multiple passes) would you also say that Ogu to Iwobi and to Iheanacho and to Kalu indicates Iwobi having a hand on the goal? Please explain the view supporting the claim of having a hand in all three goals but I don't get it?
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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Re: Nigeria Qualifies: Report + Ratings

Post by txj »

Enugu II wrote:
txj wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
txj wrote:Disagree with Pau being the best player on the pitch, although his move for the goal could be said to justify a sentimental choice.

He looked threatening all day, but overall he offered little end product- the assist and a thru ball that Musa helped defend.

For me, I'll choose Iwobi. Had a hand in all three legit goals by Nigeria and his deeper position in 2HF allowed Nigeria control the game in a game management phase, even with less possession.
Txj,

I thought Tau was clearly the most influential player on the field and was often part of anything the South Africans did going forward. I do not think Iwobi's play was anywhere close to his best game for Nigeria. He gave the ball up to opponents numerous times. For me, Musa was the best Nigerian player on the day. Could have had two goals if not for the ball calls and he repeatedly molested the South African defense with his runs. Made far less turnovers as well. We certainly have different views of the game. I know you thought highly of Balogun's play in the game but I really think he was quite average and was no better than Omeruo whom you thought was awful.

What did you think of Kalu's play?
To each his own I guess. For me Pau is the pretty girl who in the end delivers, not enough to match the looks.

Yes Alex had turnovers esp in 2HF when he started to tire, but he had a hand in all three legit goals by the SE. His positioning in the 1HF, undermined the SA game plan repeatedly and gave the SE the edge in MF.

But it wasn't just this. it was ESP his work in the 2HF in the game management phase, which meant Nigeria controlled the game with two different tactical approaches in each half, each centered on Alex.

That's what a MOM performance looks like to me, not atilogwu dance moves that yield little...

On Kalu, was impressed by him going fwd in the 1HF, and his understanding of his role, although helped greatly by Balogun. I though however that he should've moved up earlier in 2HF.

Hopefully we can get Lookman on board soon...
Txj,

Certainly we had different views of the game. There is certainly no doubt. Your view that Iwobi had a hand in all three SE goals is a bit overboard. I suppose this means that he was significant in all those three occurrences. Can you describe how he did? As far as I recollect he had a hand in the second disallowed goal but not in the first disallowed goal and the goal that was given. Yes, he played deeper in the second half but his turnover rate was far ore than should be expected. I believe he could have been taken off just after the half and the fact that he was not was possibly because there was no one on the bench that can pull the strings as only he could from that position going forward. An indictment on the personnel available for the game.

In any case, please explain your claim that he had a hand in all three unless you watched an entirely different game. This is something that can be easily verified via match video. In any case, I hope you are not confusing him with Etebo or Iheanacho or Musa in the case of the first disallowed goal (off foul on Etebo who actually won the ball and took the kick) or with Iheanacho and Kalu on the goal. If Iwobi's pass to Iheanacho on the goal is having a hand (going back multiple passes) would you also say that Ogu to Iwobi and to Iheanacho and to Kalu indicates Iwobi having a hand on the goal? Please explain the view supporting the claim of having a hand in all three goals but I don't get it?
I look at a game from the perspective it was played and the tactical organization of the teams.

Tactically he had a hand on all three goals. Note that I did not say assist. his positioning was significant in the space on the right for Kalu to shoot, and Musa's isolation on the left, cus the CDMs SA deployed, Kekana and Mabundu, I think, were constantly looking for him and dropping deep, centrally, thus not quick or consistent enough to cover the inside of their lateral defenders.

And in the 2hf, as I already mentioned his role changed in a game mgt phase. In otherwords, he was central to the key things Nigeria did to get a result.

Yes he had turnovers, esp in 2HF as he started to tire, but for me, and in spite of this, he was the key player.
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
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We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: Nigeria Qualifies: Report + Ratings

Post by Enugu II »

txj wrote:
Enugu II wrote: Txj,

Certainly we had different views of the game. There is certainly no doubt. Your view that Iwobi had a hand in all three SE goals is a bit overboard. I suppose this means that he was significant in all those three occurrences. Can you describe how he did? As far as I recollect he had a hand in the second disallowed goal but not in the first disallowed goal and the goal that was given. Yes, he played deeper in the second half but his turnover rate was far ore than should be expected. I believe he could have been taken off just after the half and the fact that he was not was possibly because there was no one on the bench that can pull the strings as only he could from that position going forward. An indictment on the personnel available for the game.

In any case, please explain your claim that he had a hand in all three unless you watched an entirely different game. This is something that can be easily verified via match video. In any case, I hope you are not confusing him with Etebo or Iheanacho or Musa in the case of the first disallowed goal (off foul on Etebo who actually won the ball and took the kick) or with Iheanacho and Kalu on the goal. If Iwobi's pass to Iheanacho on the goal is having a hand (going back multiple passes) would you also say that Ogu to Iwobi and to Iheanacho and to Kalu indicates Iwobi having a hand on the goal? Please explain the view supporting the claim of having a hand in all three goals but I don't get it?
I look at a game from the perspective it was played and the tactical organization of the teams.

Tactically he had a hand on all three goals. Note that I did not say assist. his positioning was significant in the space on the right for Kalu to shoot, and Musa's isolation on the left, cus the CDMs SA deployed, Kekana and Mabundu, I think, were constantly looking for him and dropping deep, centrally, thus not quick or consistent enough to cover the inside of their lateral defenders.

And in the 2hf, as I already mentioned his role changed in a game mgt phase. In otherwords, he was central to the key things Nigeria did to get a result.

Yes he had turnovers, esp in 2HF as he started to tire, but for me, and in spite of this, he was the key player.
Txj,

That is nebulous, I would add because you can make a similar case for several other players in several of the critical plays. For some they even had far more effect like Iheanacho BTW and it was not just positional. Same as Etebo. Positionally, you can make the case for several others so it is neither here nor there.

On Iwobi, on that first disallowed goal? It is surprising that you can make a case for him positionally unless you had an all-22 video that was not available to television viewers as he was not on camera until late when he is shown trailing the play. So how was his position now claimed to be central when it was not observable watching television? You need to explain that one. If you had an all-22 video then perhaps. Did his positioning draw people away allowing Etebo to win the ball, allowing Etebo to be fouled? and then allowing Etebo to find Iheanacho with a pass? How exactly did Iwobi's position help in all those scenarios? Honestly, I think it is a reach to make that claim. If you doubt it, I ask you and others who read this post to go to the thread where the full video has been posted and check out from the 7:00 minute mark to watch the run up to that very play as well as 8:00 minute on the actual goal and then express your views on this.

TBH, I feel bad making this argument regarding Iwobi as he is one player that I do not write like this regarding his play and you probably know why. I am doing this only because I strongly feel your claim here isn't anywhere near accurate. Iowa can play far better than he did Saturday and he has done that in the past. Saturday was not one of his best days and his turnovers were negative as it led directly to some of the pressures on the SE.
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Re: Nigeria Qualifies: Report + Ratings

Post by txj »

I try to watch a game from the tactical perspective in which it is played, and therefore assign the MVP to the player who is most influential, within this framework. For me Iwobi was the player, his turnovers notwithstanding. In the offensive phase in 1hf, and in the game management phase in 2hf.

From your view, it is Percy Tau. Ok....we agree to disagree.

But let me add this. Overall, the Nigerian approach was a little too complicated for SA, in spite of the hot air from the appropriately named Baxter! But for poor refereeing and the absence of a better striker, we would not even be talking about Tau, his assist notwithstanding...

Their fullbacks never figured out how to deal with the Nigerian wingbacks. In CM, they never figured out how to deal with Iwobi and his two CDMs dropped too deep, or were dragged away to the flanks when Iwobi helped create an overload.

Tactically, this was one of Iwobi's most impressive games for the SE. A team can control a game without possession. A player can influence a game by his movements and positioning, even if he does not touch the ball in a particular sequence.
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp

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