Who is greater Pele or Messi?

[camex]

1.Pele - The Greatest (On the same level as Muhammad Ali in Boxing, Michael Jordan in basketball, and Wayne Gretzky in Ice Hockey).
2. Diego Maradona - Best Argentine ever. Better than Messi, better left foot and has won the World Cup.
3. Cristiano Ronaldo - Can play equally effectively at center forward, left wing and right wing. Can score with both feet and is a deadly header of the ball. Famously inspired Portugal to win the last Euros.
4. Messi - Small in stature, but mighty in club achievements. Almost unstoppable cutting in from the right. Negligible goals from headers. Over-dominant left foot. Lack of a World Cup win is an albatross to his undoubted greatness.
5. Zidane - Algerian- made French magician. Made a brilliant turn as manager for good measure.
6. Ronaldinho- The Brazilian wonder
7. George Weah - African power and Football President.
8. Jay Jay Okocha- The Nigerian wizard. Probably didn't realize he was a football god until the tail end of his career.
The rest...George Best, Franz Beckenbauer, Alfredo di Stefano, Lev Yashin, Gordon Banks, Jairzinho, Rivelino all deserve honorable mentions.

I rate Eto'o ahead of Jay Jay Okocha. Eto'o was more results oriented while Jay Jay seemed more interested in spectacular play. Milla is also up there.

[maceo4]

1.Pele - The Greatest (On the same level as Muhammad Ali in Boxing, Michael Jordan in basketball, and Wayne Gretzky in Ice Hockey).
2. Diego Maradona - Best Argentine ever. Better than Messi, better left foot and has won the World Cup.
3. Cristiano Ronaldo - Can play equally effectively at center forward, left wing and right wing. Can score with both feet and is a deadly header of the ball. Famously inspired Portugal to win the last Euros.
4. Messi - Small in stature, but mighty in club achievements. Almost unstoppable cutting in from the right. Negligible goals from headers. Over-dominant left foot. Lack of a World Cup win is an albatross to his undoubted greatness.
5. Zidane - Algerian- made French magician. Made a brilliant turn as manager for good measure.
6. Ronaldinho- The Brazilian wonder
7. George Weah - African power and Football President.
8. Jay Jay Okocha- The Nigerian wizard. Probably didn't realize he was a football god until the tail end of his career.
The rest...George Best, Franz Beckenbauer, Alfredo di Stefano, Lev Yashin, Gordon Banks, Jairzinho, Rivelino all deserve honorable mentions.

You missed Ronaldo -- The Real One

But he didn't miss JJ...imagine

[Cito]

Messi is a better footballer than Pele.

Before you go gaga, read my point of view.
1. Both played against different set of opponents. Messi played against those that were enhanced through better training, coaching and technology
2. Watching both under different circumstances skews ones view. You guys watched Pele on one camera or thereabout while Messi is viewed through multi-camera thus its easier to magnify faults.
3. Pele did not win the world cup alone. He had help from his team mates while one could argue that Messi's teammates were the major reason he hasn't won a major trophy.

[pajimoh]

Messi is a better footballer than Pele.

Before you go gaga, read my point of view.
1. Both played against different set of opponents. Messi played against those that were enhanced through better training, coaching and technology
2. Watching both under different circumstances skews ones view. You guys watched Pele on one camera or thereabout while Messi is viewed through multi-camera thus its easier to magnify faults.
3. Pele did not win the world cup alone. He had help from his team mates while one could argue that Messi's teammates were the major reason he hasn't won a major trophy.

Trust me on this one, you do NOT know what you're talking about and I'm being kind

[Cito]

Messi is a better footballer than Pele.

Before you go gaga, read my point of view.
1. Both played against different set of opponents. Messi played against those that were enhanced through better training, coaching and technology
2. Watching both under different circumstances skews ones view. You guys watched Pele on one camera or thereabout while Messi is viewed through multi-camera thus its easier to magnify faults.
3. Pele did not win the world cup alone. He had help from his team mates while one could argue that Messi's teammates were the major reason he hasn't won a major trophy.

Trust me on this one, you do NOT know what you're talking about and I'm being kind

Coming from you, that is a big complement. Thanks.

[GG of G]

Some of the things one has the misfortune of reading on the internet, makes you want to ban it altogether.........Messi vs Pele mschewwww

[john12]

Club wise Messi was better internationally Pele was better. It’s up to the fans to decide which category holds more weight club vs country

[The real deal]

World cup of today has taken 5 notches down IMHO. The biggest stars of Pele years were National team players . The WC had the best standard in those years.
Which competition has the best quality today? Uefa Champions league or WC?
By the time today's players play 38 weeks league, weekly training, preseason, qualifiers for nations cup, WC .....the demands of today is light years ahead of those years
It was not that heavy in the pele years.

[Chimurenga Rebel]

1.Pele - The Greatest (On the same level as Muhammad Ali in Boxing, Michael Jordan in basketball, and Wayne Gretzky in Ice Hockey).
2. Diego Maradona - Best Argentine ever. Better than Messi, better left foot and has won the World Cup.
3. Cristiano Ronaldo - Can play equally effectively at center forward, left wing and right wing. Can score with both feet and is a deadly header of the ball. Famously inspired Portugal to win the last Euros.
4. Messi - Small in stature, but mighty in club achievements. Almost unstoppable cutting in from the right. Negligible goals from headers. Over-dominant left foot. Lack of a World Cup win is an albatross to his undoubted greatness.
5. Zidane - Algerian- made French magician. Made a brilliant turn as manager for good measure.
6. Ronaldinho- The Brazilian wonder
7. George Weah - African power and Football President.
8. Jay Jay Okocha- The Nigerian wizard. Probably didn't realize he was a football god until the tail end of his career.
The rest...George Best, Franz Beckenbauer, Alfredo di Stefano, Lev Yashin, Gordon Banks, Jairzinho, Rivelino all deserve honorable mentions.

What's Okocha doing in that esteemed list

[camex]

Maradona was also a one leg player but was a big game player with Argentina too.

Pele take on the issue:

https://sports.yahoo.com/one-skill-one- ... ccounter=1

One skill, one leg, can't head - Pele's damning assessment of Messi
Omnisport OmnisportDecember 6, 2018
Yahoo Sports
One skill, one leg, can't head - Pele's damning assessment of Messi
Brazil great Pele has offered a withering dismissal of Barcelona star Lionel Messi's claims to being the best footballer of all time.
More
Pele has belittled Lionel Messi as a player who only has "one leg" and "one skill".

The Brazil great is regarded by many observers to the greatest footballer of all time but has seen this status come under scrutiny on account of Messi's phenomenal exploits for Barcelona over the past decade.

Indeed, three-time World Cup winner Pele does not even think Messi is the best Argentinian player in history – telling Folha de Sao Paulo that Diego Maradona was "much better".

"How can you make a comparison between a guy who heads the ball well, shoots with the left, shoots with the right and another who only shoots with one leg, only has one skill and doesn't head the ball well?” Pele said, comparing his own playing attributes to the five-time Ballon d'Or winner.

"How can you compare? To compare with Pele, it has to be someone who shoots well with the left, shoots well with the right, and scores headers.

"As far as I'm concerned, Maradona was one of the best players ever. If you ask me, 'Was he better than Messi?' Yes, he was. Much better.

"[Franz] Beckenbauer, [Johan] Cruyff were also excellent players."

Messi led Barca to a LaLiga and Copa del Rey double last season, the ninth and sixth times respectively the four-time Champions League winner has claimed those trophies.

The 31-year-old has scored 41 goals and supplied 20 assists in 45 matches across all competitions in 2018, giving him more goal involvements than any other player in Europe's top five leagues.

Nevertheless, this was only good enough to give him a fifth-place finish in this week's Ballon d'Or vote, as Real Madrid's Luka Modric walked off with the main prize – the first time since 2006 Messi has not attained a podium place at the prestigious gala.

[Chief Ogbunigwe]

1.Pele - The Greatest (On the same level as Muhammad Ali in Boxing, Michael Jordan in basketball, and Wayne Gretzky in Ice Hockey).
2. Diego Maradona - Best Argentine ever. Better than Messi, better left foot and has won the World Cup.
3. Cristiano Ronaldo - Can play equally effectively at center forward, left wing and right wing. Can score with both feet and is a deadly header of the ball. Famously inspired Portugal to win the last Euros.
4. Messi - Small in stature, but mighty in club achievements. Almost unstoppable cutting in from the right. Negligible goals from headers. Over-dominant left foot. Lack of a World Cup win is an albatross to his undoubted greatness.
5. Zidane - Algerian- made French magician. Made a brilliant turn as manager for good measure.
6. Ronaldinho- The Brazilian wonder
7. George Weah - African power and Football President.
8. Jay Jay Okocha- The Nigerian wizard. Probably didn't realize he was a football god until the tail end of his career.
The rest...George Best, Franz Beckenbauer, Alfredo di Stefano, Lev Yashin, Gordon Banks, Jairzinho, Rivelino all deserve honorable mentions.

I rate Eto'o ahead of Jay Jay Okocha. Eto'o was more results oriented while Jay Jay seemed more interested in spectacular play. Milla is also up there.

RONALDO FENOMENO nko?

[Chief Ogbunigwe]

1.Pele - The Greatest (On the same level as Muhammad Ali in Boxing, Michael Jordan in basketball, and Wayne Gretzky in Ice Hockey).
2. Diego Maradona - Best Argentine ever. Better than Messi, better left foot and has won the World Cup.
3. Cristiano Ronaldo - Can play equally effectively at center forward, left wing and right wing. Can score with both feet and is a deadly header of the ball. Famously inspired Portugal to win the last Euros.
4. Messi - Small in stature, but mighty in club achievements. Almost unstoppable cutting in from the right. Negligible goals from headers. Over-dominant left foot. Lack of a World Cup win is an albatross to his undoubted greatness.
5. Zidane - Algerian- made French magician. Made a brilliant turn as manager for good measure.
6. Ronaldinho- The Brazilian wonder
7. George Weah - African power and Football President.
8. Jay Jay Okocha- The Nigerian wizard. Probably didn't realize he was a football god until the tail end of his career.
The rest...George Best, Franz Beckenbauer, Alfredo di Stefano, Lev Yashin, Gordon Banks, Jairzinho, Rivelino all deserve honorable mentions.

You missed Ronaldo -- The Real One

you no see am so?

[Chief Ogbunigwe]

1.Pele - The Greatest (On the same level as Muhammad Ali in Boxing, Michael Jordan in basketball, and Wayne Gretzky in Ice Hockey).
2. Diego Maradona - Best Argentine ever. Better than Messi, better left foot and has won the World Cup.
3. Cristiano Ronaldo - Can play equally effectively at center forward, left wing and right wing. Can score with both feet and is a deadly header of the ball. Famously inspired Portugal to win the last Euros.
4. Messi - Small in stature, but mighty in club achievements. Almost unstoppable cutting in from the right. Negligible goals from headers. Over-dominant left foot. Lack of a World Cup win is an albatross to his undoubted greatness.
5. Zidane - Algerian- made French magician. Made a brilliant turn as manager for good measure.
6. Ronaldinho- The Brazilian wonder
7. George Weah - African power and Football President.
8. Jay Jay Okocha- The Nigerian wizard. Probably didn't realize he was a football god until the tail end of his career.
The rest...George Best, Franz Beckenbauer, Alfredo di Stefano, Lev Yashin, Gordon Banks, Jairzinho, Rivelino all deserve honorable mentions.

You missed Ronaldo -- The Real One

But he didn't miss JJ...imagine

can you imagine? In fact, make I no vex blow gasket.

[camex]

1.Pele - The Greatest (On the same level as Muhammad Ali in Boxing, Michael Jordan in basketball, and Wayne Gretzky in Ice Hockey).
2. Diego Maradona - Best Argentine ever. Better than Messi, better left foot and has won the World Cup.
3. Cristiano Ronaldo - Can play equally effectively at center forward, left wing and right wing. Can score with both feet and is a deadly header of the ball. Famously inspired Portugal to win the last Euros.
4. Messi - Small in stature, but mighty in club achievements. Almost unstoppable cutting in from the right. Negligible goals from headers. Over-dominant left foot. Lack of a World Cup win is an albatross to his undoubted greatness.
5. Zidane - Algerian- made French magician. Made a brilliant turn as manager for good measure.
6. Ronaldinho- The Brazilian wonder
7. George Weah - African power and Football President.
8. Jay Jay Okocha- The Nigerian wizard. Probably didn't realize he was a football god until the tail end of his career.
The rest...George Best, Franz Beckenbauer, Alfredo di Stefano, Lev Yashin, Gordon Banks, Jairzinho, Rivelino all deserve honorable mentions.

I rate Eto'o ahead of Jay Jay Okocha. Eto'o was more results oriented while Jay Jay seemed more interested in spectacular play. Milla is also up there.

RONALDO FENOMENO nko?

Sorry, he belongs to the list too.

[pajimoh]

Messi is a better footballer than Pele.

Before you go gaga, read my point of view.
1. Both played against different set of opponents. Messi played against those that were enhanced through better training, coaching and technology
2. Watching both under different circumstances skews ones view. You guys watched Pele on one camera or thereabout while Messi is viewed through multi-camera thus its easier to magnify faults.
3. Pele did not win the world cup alone. He had help from his team mates while one could argue that Messi's teammates were the major reason he hasn't won a major trophy.

Trust me on this one, you do NOT know what you're talking about and I'm being kind

Coming from you, that is a big complement. Thanks.

Your point was never about Messi's skill set but about technology, method of training etc. Football is a team sport so you expect them to play with team mates. Has Messi not benefited from a well stacked Barcelona team and failed with the national team?

Yes we are talking about different era but current players have not been genetically enhanced as you'd like us to believe. In fact they are over-pampered brats who are very well protected by today's rules and dive at every little breeze that blows their way.

It's debatable whether Messi would have been able to play his game with the kind of attention he would have received in Pele's time.

Pele is an all round baller - a complete package.

I remember Pele being kicked black and blue until he got injured and could not continue the WC, which eventually led to Brazil ouster. He was the rock of the team and not a common players.

Don't let the black and white film fool you, the grass was still green, the boots and ball harder than concrete and the opposition as brutal in their tackles and the game just as intense and fast

[/video]

[Cito]

Messi is a better footballer than Pele.

Before you go gaga, read my point of view.
1. Both played against different set of opponents. Messi played against those that were enhanced through better training, coaching and technology
2. Watching both under different circumstances skews ones view. You guys watched Pele on one camera or thereabout while Messi is viewed through multi-camera thus its easier to magnify faults.
3. Pele did not win the world cup alone. He had help from his team mates while one could argue that Messi's teammates were the major reason he hasn't won a major trophy.

Trust me on this one, you do NOT know what you're talking about and I'm being kind

Coming from you, that is a big complement. Thanks.

Your point was never about Messi's skill set but about technology, method of training etc. Football is a team sport so you expect them to play with team mates. Has Messi not benefited from a well stacked Barcelona team and failed with the national team? Thanks for arriving at my #3 above thought you didn't know you did...

Yes we are talking about different era but current players have not been genetically enhanced Your word not mine. Read my #1 again and do not, I repeat,do not pull alternative facts out of .... as you'd like us to believe. In fact they are over-pampered brats who are very well protected by today's rules and dive at every little breeze that blows their way.

It's debatable whether Messi would have been able to play his game with the kind of attention he would have received in Pele's time.

Pele is an all round baller - a complete package.

I remember Pele being kicked black and blue until he got injured and could not continue the WC, which eventually led to Brazil ouster. He was the rock of the team and not a common players.

Don't let the black and white film fool you, the grass was still green, the boots and ball harder than concrete and the opposition as brutal in their tackles and the game just as intense and fastRead my #2 again, slowly this time and take as much time as you need to understand what I wrote. It was not a function of white and black, it was more a function of number of cameras, angles, enhancements and more eyeballs watching every move as against a limited view in Pele's era.

[/video]

I understand the knock on Messi since he hasn't won a major trophy with Argentina. I have seen Pele's videos but from the limited ones I have seen, Messi to me is a better footballer. He is more natural and refined in his moves. Though he prefers his left but he is not a Kelechi kind of lefty. Pele prefers his right too.
You may have your choice of player and reasons but Messi is mine.
I need to add another reason;

4. Good old days reasons. Oldies are always talked about with fondness and massive amount of exaggerations.

[pajimoh]

Messi is a better footballer than Pele.

Before you go gaga, read my point of view.
1. Both played against different set of opponents. Messi played against those that were enhanced through better training, coaching and technology
2. Watching both under different circumstances skews ones view. You guys watched Pele on one camera or thereabout while Messi is viewed through multi-camera thus its easier to magnify faults.
3. Pele did not win the world cup alone. He had help from his team mates while one could argue that Messi's teammates were the major reason he hasn't won a major trophy.

Trust me on this one, you do NOT know what you're talking about and I'm being kind

Coming from you, that is a big complement. Thanks.

Your point was never about Messi's skill set but about technology, method of training etc. Football is a team sport so you expect them to play with team mates. Has Messi not benefited from a well stacked Barcelona team and failed with the national team? Thanks for arriving at my #3 above thought you didn't know you did...

Yes we are talking about different era but current players have not been genetically enhanced Your word not mine. Read my #1 again and do not, I repeat,do not pull alternative facts out of .... as you'd like us to believe. In fact they are over-pampered brats who are very well protected by today's rules and dive at every little breeze that blows their way.

It's debatable whether Messi would have been able to play his game with the kind of attention he would have received in Pele's time.

Pele is an all round baller - a complete package.

I remember Pele being kicked black and blue until he got injured and could not continue the WC, which eventually led to Brazil ouster. He was the rock of the team and not a common players.

Don't let the black and white film fool you, the grass was still green, the boots and ball harder than concrete and the opposition as brutal in their tackles and the game just as intense and fastRead my #2 again, slowly this time and take as much time as you need to understand what I wrote. It was not a function of white and black, it was more a function of number of cameras, angles, enhancements and more eyeballs watching every move as against a limited view in Pele's era.

[/video]

I understand the knock on Messi since he hasn't won a major trophy with Argentina. I have seen Pele's videos but from the limited ones I have seen, Messi to me is a better footballer. He is more natural and refined in his moves. Though he prefers his left but he is not a Kelechi kind of lefty. Pele prefers his right too.
You may have your choice of player and reasons but Messi is mine.
I need to add another reason;

4. Good old days reasons. Oldies are always talked about with fondness and massive amount of exaggerations.

I respect your choice but .....

In this very thread, I argued players should not be judged by WC exploits alone. I'm merely pointing out that both club and international level, Pele carried his teams. He was always the main man

[Molue Conductor]

Let's not forget Messi in his prime. Today's Messi, as good as he still is, is far form Messi at his prime.

[green4life]

Personally I think Messi is more talented and overall complete individually. However, history will remember him for not winning any single World Cup or even Copa America for his country and for those reasons, many will pick Pele. Messi has no excuse not winning a single major trophy for his country expecially with the caliber of players at Argentina disposal in Messi era

Higuain alone denied Messi two major trophies when he missed sitters in front of goal.

I hate it when folks trip over themselves to make excuses for Messi. That said, for me, Messi is the greatest player in my generation without a doubt. And keep in mind I’m a Chelsea fan who for many many years hated Barca and all their players including Messi. But the truth is he’s been an amazing almost supernatural player the likes of whom we may never see again.

But who’s greater? You cannot be the greatest ever without wining a big one or 2 for your country.

[Undertaker]

Messi is 2X better than Pele!

[ohsee]

Those who compare Messi to Pele are guilty of the crime of "presentism," (they are enamored of the present, and think the past does not matter) and don't know anything about Pele and his accomplishments. Pele did things that are incredible in any age--things no one did before, and no one did after. Messi does things that only SEEM incredible in THIS age.

Go and do the work and find out. Find out why the world's football experts and historians near unanimously say Pele is the GOAT of GOATs. Don't just pull stuff from the usual place.

[Heliopolis]

These comparisons are tiring. Why can't we just enjoy greatness? Pele, Maradona, C. Ronaldo, Messi, etc are among the top 5 players of all time. I don't care who rounds out the top 5 but those guys are surely in that list.

[Heliopolis]

Those who compare Messi to Pele are guilty of the crime of "presentism," (they are enamored of the present, and think the past does not matter) and don't know anything about Pele and his accomplishments. Pele did things that are incredible in any age--things no one did before, and no one did after. Messi does things that only SEEM incredible in THIS age.

Go and do the work and find out. Find out why the world's football experts and historians near unanimously say Pele is the GOAT of GOATs. Don't just pull stuff from the usual place.

I'm not going to argue with you but we need to appreciate the fact that C. Ronaldo and Messi have demonstrated longevity that no greats have ever done. This sport has never seen one, let alone two attacking players as the undisputed best amongst their generation for a good 10+ years. Keep in mind that due to the dominance of the European leagues in recent decades, we now have the best of the best competing against each other at the club level and yet Ronaldo and Messi have remained at the pinnacle. In the past the likes of Pele and other South American greats stayed at home which meant they dominated weaker competition. Pele undoubtedly showed his class against the best at the World Cup but its a different kettle of fish when you're dominating 50+ games a year against the best players and clubs for 10+ years.

I'm not sure we'll ever see attackers put up the numbers Ronaldo and Messi have for such a long period of time. The only guy right now I think has the potential is Mbappe who is better now than Ronaldo was at the same age and has been as instrumental as Messi was at the same period of his career.