Isaac Success v Everton...

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Chief Ogbunigwe
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Re: Isaac Success v Everton...

Post by Chief Ogbunigwe »

metalalloy wrote:
Polly wrote:
metalalloy wrote:
Polly wrote:
metalalloy wrote:
Polly wrote:
metalalloy wrote:

How does Deeney have three shots on goal when Watford has only 1 shot on target? :?

http://www.espn.com/soccer/matchstats?gameId=513688

But go on... don't let the truth get in the way of your narrative.
Watford has eight shots on goal so far (to Everton's six).
There is a difference between "Shots" and "Shots on goal." Watford has 1 shot on goal.

They just had their second shot on goal that was saved.
I think you are a little confused. "Shots on goal" is different from "shots on target." I never alluded to shots on target.
Whats the difference?
A shot on goal is an attempt by a team to score (shooting, headers, dead balls, etc). It may be saved or blocked, or it may miss to the right or left of the goal, or go over the bar.

A shot on target is a shot on goal that is saved by the goalkeeper or any of his teammates. Shots on target are therefore a subset of shorts on goal. In the ongoing match in the 91st minute, Watford is 14(3): 14 shots on goal, three on target.
Thank you. No offense, but do you have a source for these definitions? The reason i ask is because i have always seen both "shot on goal" and "shot on target" used interchangeably. See example stats from todays game:

shots on target: Premier league website and transfermkt
https://www.premierleague.com/match/38463
https://www.transfermarkt.com/ticker/st ... ve/3050322

shot on goal: soccernet
http://www.espn.com/soccer/matchstats?gameId=513688



as you can see. all of them have the exact same stats:

shots : Everton (12) Watford (15)
(on goal)/target: Everton (5) Watford (3)

From what I've seen, a shot on goal/target is a subset of a "shot". I stand to be corrected, but I've never seen a difference between "shot on target" vs "shot on goal".
the key question is though, is the "goal" the "target"? The answer to this question clarifies everything.
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metalalloy
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Re: Isaac Success v Everton...

Post by metalalloy »

Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
the key question is though, is the "goal" the "target"? The answer to this question clarifies everything.
I cant think of what else the "target" could be in football, otherwise, his royal greatness, Okocha would have definitely have a place in the Guinness book of records for shots "on target" after WC 1998.
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Re: Isaac Success v Everton...

Post by oscar52 »

He was average. His game is currently lacking based on the last two games I have seen. A winger he is not because he does not have the ball/dribbling skills. He is serviceable as a forward but Deeney is currently better. He needs to quit that falling down/diving thing as well, its too frequent with him and its annoying to watch.
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Re: Isaac Success v Everton...

Post by TheHitman47 »

I don't think he is that great and while serviceable to this team isn't that great either. Yeah he wins fouls but his passing isn't that good and he has issues with his decision making. Also he plays too far from goal as a striker and clearly isn't a winger. I think he would do a bit better centrally as a striker but he would need to be tried there.
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Re: Isaac Success v Everton...

Post by Ayo Akinfe »

An average player if you ask me. Success is never going to be a game changer like say Drogba, Eto'o, Weah, Sallah, Mane or Mahrez. We are tired of average players in the Super Eagles abeg. I want to see another world class player come through.
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Re: Isaac Success v Everton...

Post by TonyTheTigerKiller »

The most complimentary thing you can say about Success is that he plays on a very poor team which is why you really can’t render a fair assessment of his effectiveness. Having said that, he didn’t take advantage of the opportunities that fell his way :!:


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Re: Isaac Success v Everton...

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:!:
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Re: Isaac Success v Everton...

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I hear y’all but who are the great strikers that we have better than him? With Ighalo injured it’s just him and Kelechi but both are struggling for goals but also feeding off scraps at their poor teams. Worst part is they are steady creating for others but rarely get any chances to score.
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Re: Isaac Success v Everton...

Post by heavyd »

Undertaker wrote:
Siddonlook11 wrote:
Flex Swift wrote:I never thought I would say this but......... Ighalo is a better player then this Success guy.
Curious though .. what is the basis of comparison ? ..not questioning your assertion , just wondering if you could give more context

He doesn't score enough for me as a striker. He is all hustle and no substance. A typically African striker. He is full of strength and speed but can't score a simple goal. A poor man Ighalo. And that isn't saying much because Ighalo is very piss poor too.
A typical african striker?
you mean like Aubameyang, Samuel Eto, Drogba, Yakubu, Obafemi Martins, Weah etc??

i cant believe an African will be the one to help perpetuate stereotypical statements like this.

you should be ashamed of yourself
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Re: Isaac Success v Everton...

Post by metalalloy »

maceo4 wrote:I hear y’all but who are the great strikers that we have better than him? With Ighalo injured it’s just him and Kelechi but both are struggling for goals but also feeding off scraps at their poor teams. Worst part is they are steady creating for others but rarely get any chances to score.

crickets...
We have been brainwashed by the Premier League that it's the best in the world. Nonsense. It's the best brand
Roy Keane: ITV 02/25/14

He says that we are currently "brainwashed" into believing that the Premier League is the best competition in the world, and that we are now a long way off dominating the Champions League again.
Gary Neville: Mirror: 12/23/14

I think Spain’s by far the best league.
Scholes. UK Guardian 9/6/16
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Re: Isaac Success v Everton...

Post by TonyTheTigerKiller »

maceo4 wrote:I hear y’all but who are the great strikers that we have better than him? With Ighalo injured it’s just him and Kelechi but both are struggling for goals but also feeding off scraps at their poor teams. Worst part is they are steady creating for others but rarely get any chances to score.
I tend to agree with you about the supporting cast of Nacho and Success but I do think that Nacho is more of a team player than success who tends to want to go it alone and isn’t quite as good a passer as Nacho. Nacho’s biggest problem, in my view, is that his teammates don’t make enough of an effort to get him the ball :!:


Cheers.
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Re: Isaac Success v Everton...

Post by vancity eagle »

bushboy wrote:I am a little worried for my boy. He does little things well and you can see he is a cerebral player. But this was like his 5th start in a row and he hasn't scored. If in January, a striker is signed, the pressure on him will mount. I just hope he hasn't used up his goodwill. Gracia took a bold step in playing him as much as he has, and the only way to reward that is with goals. He just hasn't done that.

Before the last international break, Success was playing decently for Watford. You could see he was very cerebral, and his passing was top notch. Even in his short cameo vs Libya you could see he was a very good player.

When the SA match came around, reports in the SE camp were that he would start up top in place of the injured Ighalo, then Rohr went with the ineffective Iheanacho instead, and then even Oshimen apparently went ahead of him in the striking heirerchy. Success looked ineffective in the half he played against Uganda, I for one was very dissapointed.

Since then I have watched almost every single game Success has played for Watford and he has been poor. He just runs around, doesn't really do anything of note, doesn't create chances, doesn't take on players, and often doesn't even run into good positions. His passing seems several notches poorer, and he has started diving around again. The coach seems to have faith in him because he keeps starting him even though he has been poor for several games in a row. He just doesn't make things happen, and it isn't just about scoring goals, but he certainly does have a lack of bite in that regard.

On form Ighalo is definately better than him, Oshimen too probably. I used to consider Success as a possible winger, but no way would I play him ahead of

Musa, Kalu, Chukwueze, even Simon Moses.

He really needs to step up, and he looks fat.
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Re: Isaac Success v Everton...

Post by maceo4 »

vancity eagle wrote:
bushboy wrote:I am a little worried for my boy. He does little things well and you can see he is a cerebral player. But this was like his 5th start in a row and he hasn't scored. If in January, a striker is signed, the pressure on him will mount. I just hope he hasn't used up his goodwill. Gracia took a bold step in playing him as much as he has, and the only way to reward that is with goals. He just hasn't done that.

Before the last international break, Success was playing decently for Watford. You could see he was very cerebral, and his passing was top notch. Even in his short cameo vs Libya you could see he was a very good player.

When the SA match came around, reports in the SE camp were that he would start up top in place of the injured Ighalo, then Rohr went with the ineffective Iheanacho instead, and then even Oshimen apparently went ahead of him in the striking heirerchy. Success looked ineffective in the half he played against Uganda, I for one was very dissapointed.

Since then I have watched almost every single game Success has played for Watford and he has been poor. He just runs around, doesn't really do anything of note, doesn't create chances, doesn't take on players, and often doesn't even run into good positions. His passing seems several notches poorer, and he has started diving around again. The coach seems to have faith in him because he keeps starting him even though he has been poor for several games in a row. He just doesn't make things happen, and it isn't just about scoring goals, but he certainly does have a lack of bite in that regard.

On form Ighalo is definately better than him, Oshimen too probably. I used to consider Success as a possible winger, but no way would I play him ahead of

Musa, Kalu, Chukwueze, even Simon Moses.

He really needs to step up, and he looks fat.
How did Osimhen go ahead of him in the striking hierarchy though? Success came in for Kele vs SA, Osimhen didn't play. And Rohr explained that why he went with Kele was because his partnership with Musa was the one that had been worked on the most (b/c of their training time during the World Cup).

That said, I do think Success needs to apply himself more, but is not as poor as people are making him out to be.
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Re: Isaac Success v Everton...

Post by vancity eagle »

Success used to be a good dribbler with decent pace. Nowadays he looks fat and slow and I have never seen him successfully take on a player. What is up with this guy ?
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Re: Isaac Success v Everton...

Post by Flex Swift »

I don’t think Nigeria needs another hold up play but can’t score striker. In my opinion Success must add goals to his game ..... the main objective in football is to score and strikers are meant to be specialists in this aspect of the game so to make excuses such as hold up play looking good on the ball is balls
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Re: Isaac Success v Everton...

Post by Ayo Akinfe »

TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:The most complimentary thing you can say about Success is that he plays on a very poor team which is why you really can’t render a fair assessment of his effectiveness. Having said that, he didn’t take advantage of the opportunities that fell his way :!:


Cheers.

On the contrary. Watford are a very decent team at the moment. They put the ball down and play!
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Re: Isaac Success v Everton...

Post by maceo4 »

Flex Swift wrote:I don’t think Nigeria needs another hold up play but can’t score striker. In my opinion Success must add goals to his game ..... the main objective in football is to score and strikers are meant to be specialists in this aspect of the game so to make excuses such as hold up play looking good on the ball is balls
Success needs to score more, but we have folks on CE who defend Gabriel Jesus who does everything else but score and he starts for his country...
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Re: Isaac Success v Everton...

Post by TonyTheTigerKiller »

TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
maceo4 wrote:I hear y’all but who are the great strikers that we have better than him? With Ighalo injured it’s just him and Kelechi but both are struggling for goals but also feeding off scraps at their poor teams. Worst part is they are steady creating for others but rarely get any chances to score.
I tend to agree with you about the supporting cast of Nacho and Success but I do think that Nacho is more of a team player than success who tends to want to go it alone and isn’t quite as good a passer as Nacho. Nacho’s biggest problem, in my view, is that his teammates don’t make enough of an effort to get him the ball :!:


Cheers.
Claude Puel agrees with me :!:

https://amp.hitc.com/en-gb/2018/12/13/a ... achos-for/


Cheers.

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