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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:41 am 
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kalani JR wrote:
maceo4 wrote:
john12 wrote:
Enugu ii Fifa tanking dosent says it all. Let me give you some examples. Nigeria 2006 team that failed to qualify for World Cup 2006 we’re ranked “9th” and “11” that year despite failing to qualify for football. Czech Republic were ranked 2nd in 2006 prior to getting abused by Ghana. Our 1994 team were obviously talented but the way they keep eulogizing themselves, you would had thought those guys were world champion. Their main achievement which was 1994 ANC and WC round of 16 were matched by keshi team but you don’t see the likes of mikel, enemies, Moses adulation themselves. The likes of Ghana, Senegal and Cameroun has already surpassed that team


Probably because Mikel and them weren’t as dominant and entertaining at the World Cup, heck they couldn’t even score against mighty Iran. They scraped through to the round of 16 based on one win by a solitary goal in a game where the other team had a legit goal called back for offside while ours wasn’t called back for a foul. We scraped through luckily then went out with a whimper after barely troubling the French. Yes on the surface you can say it was the same achievement but when you look at the details it tells a very different story. One team was poor yet lucky while the other was stellar but unlucky.


And let’s not forget the same team couldn’t even make the next 2 ANCs, something that used to be our birthright during the time of these guys. That’s why they are remembered. Plus some are no longer with us, shouldn’t we give them their flowers while they can still smell them? Haba...


I suppose that the 94 set went on to do the opposite?


A majority of them went on to win the 96 Olympics and also repeat round of 16 at the following World Cup scoring memorable goals and victories (plural). Can you blame them for not being allowed to participate in the following two ANCs?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:50 am 
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john12 wrote:
Enugu ii Fifa tanking dosent says it all. Let me give you some examples. Nigeria 2006 team that failed to qualify for World Cup 2006 we’re ranked “9th” and “11” that year despite failing to qualify for football. Czech Republic were ranked 2nd in 2006 prior to getting abused by Ghana. Our 1994 team were obviously talented but the way they keep eulogizing themselves, you would had thought those guys were world champion. Their main achievement which was 1994 ANC and WC round of 16 were matched by keshi team but you don’t see the likes of mikel, enemies, Moses adulation themselves. The likes of Ghana, Senegal and Cameroun has already surpassed that team


John12,

No one claims that the ranking explains it all. In fact, no single factor does. However, it explains a significant part of what that team was. Remember that the core of the team was together for a long period from Westerhoff's early years till 2002 virtually. In 2002, the conflict with the FA after the AFCON led to a major rebuilding of the team. Because of the fact that FIFA's ranking often stretches several years prior to the rank, the rank of 9 and 11 that you mention for the 2006 team was partly built by the last vestiges of that strong squad established from Westerhoff's era, I would argue. Why? Because it took account of the previous 8 years, at that time! This meant that the ranking of 9 and 11 included performances from 1998(?). I note that because substantive achievements of the 2006 period/rank possibly includes the WC 1998 (last 16), AFCON 2000 (Final), AFCON of 2002 (3rd) all involving vestiges of the Westerhoff team before the major rebuild of 2002.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:05 am 
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maceo4 wrote:
kalani JR wrote:
maceo4 wrote:
john12 wrote:
Enugu ii Fifa tanking dosent says it all. Let me give you some examples. Nigeria 2006 team that failed to qualify for World Cup 2006 we’re ranked “9th” and “11” that year despite failing to qualify for football. Czech Republic were ranked 2nd in 2006 prior to getting abused by Ghana. Our 1994 team were obviously talented but the way they keep eulogizing themselves, you would had thought those guys were world champion. Their main achievement which was 1994 ANC and WC round of 16 were matched by keshi team but you don’t see the likes of mikel, enemies, Moses adulation themselves. The likes of Ghana, Senegal and Cameroun has already surpassed that team


Probably because Mikel and them weren’t as dominant and entertaining at the World Cup, heck they couldn’t even score against mighty Iran. They scraped through to the round of 16 based on one win by a solitary goal in a game where the other team had a legit goal called back for offside while ours wasn’t called back for a foul. We scraped through luckily then went out with a whimper after barely troubling the French. Yes on the surface you can say it was the same achievement but when you look at the details it tells a very different story. One team was poor yet lucky while the other was stellar but unlucky.


And let’s not forget the same team couldn’t even make the next 2 ANCs, something that used to be our birthright during the time of these guys. That’s why they are remembered. Plus some are no longer with us, shouldn’t we give them their flowers while they can still smell them? Haba...


I suppose that the 94 set went on to do the opposite?


A majority of them went on to win the 96 Olympics and also repeat round of 16 at the following World Cup scoring memorable goals and victories (plural). Can you blame them for not being allowed to participate in the following two ANCs?



And when some of them (JJ, Finidi, Oliseh, Ikpeba) returned in 2000 ANC, they went straight to the finals, only to lose to Cameroon on PKs

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:18 am 
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Enugu ii our 2006 9th and 11th ranking had absolutely nothing to do with 90’s squad. It just shows The fallacy in fifa ranking because we were ranked really bad in 1998/1999 (our lowest ever). Chief, super eagles has always been top 4 in most ANC since the 90’s no guarantees that we would had won 1996 ANC especially as inconsistent our players perform. Like I said, 1994 team were good but I’m sick and tired of us celebrating mediocrity and eulogizing them when another set of SE has matched them same results


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:33 am 
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john12 wrote:
Enugu ii our 2006 9th and 11th ranking had absolutely nothing to do with 90’s squad. It just shows The fallacy in fifa ranking because we were ranked really bad in 1998/1999 (our lowest ever). Chief, super eagles has always been top 4 in most ANC since the 90’s no guarantees that we would had won 1996 ANC especially as inconsistent our players perform. Like I said, 1994 team were good but I’m sick and tired of us celebrating mediocrity and eulogizing them when another set of SE has matched them same results


In fact, thinking about it another set hasn't matched their results since they went to round of 16 in back to back WC's. What set has matched that? Everything you are saying is just false, to the point that you have to bring up other countries achievements, what does that have to do with us celebrating our own? Let another SE team out do them and they will be hailed just as much.

And the funniest part is you are tired of hailing 'mediocrity' when it comes to 94 SE but you see absolutely nothing wrong with hailing Rohr's less than 'mediocre' achievements where he couldn't even match the 94 sets 'mediocrity', yet according to you he can't be questioned. Pray tell, how would we ever eclipse the 94 set with your attitude of defending the less than 'mediocre' recent SE displays? Since you are so sick and tired of mediocre, I guess thats why you are now settling for less than...

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:02 am 
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I have never ever hailed rohr 2018 team. However, I have always said that you cannot terminate a coach for losing to a superior team, players etc. 1998 team is another topic because 1994 is the discussion


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:13 pm 
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john12 wrote:
I have never ever hailed rohr 2018 team. However, I have always said that you cannot terminate a coach for losing to a superior team, players etc. 1998 team is another topic because 1994 is the discussion


They are not another topic, they are the same set just like Mikel and Moses set have also been to back to back world cups but we see the results are not the same.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:05 pm 
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maceo4 wrote:
john12 wrote:
I have never ever hailed rohr 2018 team. However, I have always said that you cannot terminate a coach for losing to a superior team, players etc. 1998 team is another topic because 1994 is the discussion


They are not another topic, they are the same set just like Mikel and Moses set have also been to back to back world cups but we see the results are not the same.

don't mind the joker.. the 94 set gave us a total of 4 wins at the worldcup the rest are still on just 2 wins.. the 94 team scored 13 goals in 2 world cups and the rest (02,10,14,18 ) scored 10 goals in 4 worldcups..... levels

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:42 pm 
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What that team lacked was another DM or B2B midfielder beside Oliseh who could sit beside him and let JJ run amok upfield without worrying about defending. If Ndidi had been part of that generation...wow. The biggest compliment to that 1990s team was that players like Tijani Babangida, Ikpeba, and Akpoborie (top scorer in the Bundesliga!) could not get into the starting line-up.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:29 am 
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john12 wrote:
Enugu ii our 2006 9th and 11th ranking had absolutely nothing to do with 90’s squad.

It did as clearly explained by Uncle Enugu II. The rankings are culmulative and not 'exact' (or whatever the correct term is), you slowly go up or down.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:33 am 
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wiseone wrote:
What that team lacked was another DM or B2B midfielder beside Oliseh who could sit beside him and let JJ run amok upfield without worrying about defending. If Ndidi had been part of that generation...wow. The biggest compliment to that 1990s team was that players like Tijani Babangida, Ikpeba, and Akpoborie (top scorer in the Bundesliga!) could not get into the starting line-up.

I think Oliseh was ok on his own as he had an unbelievable engine and intelligence for the position, they lacked a right full back. Austin Equavoen was a centre back and simply had no discipline to play the position he did. Hence the Italians and Argentines exposed his wing. I am thinking if we had played 3 centre backs, we might have been ok, as they all would have played a lot closer to each other.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:38 am 
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wiseone wrote:
What that team lacked was another DM or B2B midfielder beside Oliseh who could sit beside him and let JJ run amok upfield without worrying about defending. If Ndidi had been part of that generation...wow. The biggest compliment to that 1990s team was that players like Tijani Babangida, Ikpeba, and Akpoborie (top scorer in the Bundesliga!) could not get into the starting line-up.

Richard Owubokiri, the winner of the silver boot in Europe couldn't make the squad. Also Mike Obiku, who was scoring goals for Feyenoord couldn't make the squad as well. Wilfred Agbonavbare who was one of the top goalkeepers in Spain could only sit on the bench. The squad was loaded.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:38 am 
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john12 wrote:
Keshi team equaled that achievement but even their set are not salivating and eulogizing them
The 94 eagles under achieved without a doubt. They had the potential and talent to go all the way to the QF or even SF of the world cup however serious in fighting and lack of unity undermined them. Yet they remain the greatest assembly of players Nigeria every produced. Their greatness goes beyond them wearing the colours of the national team but goes into their performance for individual clubs. For over 5 years those players represented the best Africa had to produce. Nigeria players won the CAF players of the year award for over 5 years , 93 (Yekini), 96 (Kanu) 97 (Ikepba) with Nigerians players dominating top ten from 93-98.

The decision to withdraw from the 96 nations cup greatly affected the legacy of those players allowing Nigeria to miss out on 3 cup of nations... By the time we were allowed to AFCON, the players were already past their prime. This set of players.. remain the best nigeria has to offer.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:54 pm 
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Playing Oliseh as a lone defensive midfielder, alongside George, Amunike, and Okocha (AKA glorified attackers) could get ugly against teams with good forwards. That is why even some of Nigeria's most heralded victories during that era where heart attack inducing, nail-biting, high scoring cliff-hangers (e.g. 3-2 v Spain, 4-3 v Brazil, 3-2 v Argentina). Rarely did Nigeria win a game convincingly in a manner where you could relax during the last 5 minutes.

When attacking Nigeria essentially played 3-1-6 because the wingers, Okocha, and Iroha would go bombing forward to support the 2 strikers. I remember a hilarious still screen that Alan Hansen used during the 1994 WC to demonstrate how Nigeria over-commit in attack. He freeze framed an image of Chidi Nwanu with the ball on the halfway line, and 8 Nigerian players ahead of the ball! Even though Nwanu was the last man and was being closed down by a Bulgarian attacker, he casually tried to do a drag-back instead of clearing it or passing to a team-mate! :D



Aswani wrote:
wiseone wrote:
What that team lacked was another DM or B2B midfielder beside Oliseh who could sit beside him and let JJ run amok upfield without worrying about defending. If Ndidi had been part of that generation...wow. The biggest compliment to that 1990s team was that players like Tijani Babangida, Ikpeba, and Akpoborie (top scorer in the Bundesliga!) could not get into the starting line-up.

I think Oliseh was ok on his own as he had an unbelievable engine and intelligence for the position, they lacked a right full back. Austin Equavoen was a centre back and simply had no discipline to play the position he did. Hence the Italians and Argentines exposed his wing. I am thinking if we had played 3 centre backs, we might have been ok, as they all would have played a lot closer to each other.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:47 pm 
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wiseone wrote:
Playing Oliseh as a lone defensive midfielder, alongside George, Amunike, and Okocha (AKA glorified attackers) could get ugly against teams with good forwards. That is why even some of Nigeria's most heralded victories during that era where heart attack inducing, nail-biting, high scoring cliff-hangers (e.g. 3-2 v Spain, 4-3 v Brazil, 3-2 v Argentina). Rarely did Nigeria win a game convincingly in a manner where you could relax during the last 5 minutes.

When attacking Nigeria essentially played 3-1-6 because the wingers, Okocha, and Iroha would go bombing forward to support the 2 strikers. I remember a hilarious still screen that Alan Hansen used during the 1994 WC to demonstrate how Nigeria over-commit in attack. He freeze framed an image of Chidi Nwanu with the ball on the halfway line, and 8 Nigerian players ahead of the ball! Even though Nwanu was the last man and was being closed down by a Bulgarian attacker, he casually tried to do a drag-back instead of clearing it or passing to a team-mate! :D



Aswani wrote:
wiseone wrote:
What that team lacked was another DM or B2B midfielder beside Oliseh who could sit beside him and let JJ run amok upfield without worrying about defending. If Ndidi had been part of that generation...wow. The biggest compliment to that 1990s team was that players like Tijani Babangida, Ikpeba, and Akpoborie (top scorer in the Bundesliga!) could not get into the starting line-up.

I think Oliseh was ok on his own as he had an unbelievable engine and intelligence for the position, they lacked a right full back. Austin Equavoen was a centre back and simply had no discipline to play the position he did. Hence the Italians and Argentines exposed his wing. I am thinking if we had played 3 centre backs, we might have been ok, as they all would have played a lot closer to each other.


While I take your point about the all attacking nature of the team, no one wanted to play them. This was the last group of physically strong players we had. I believe they only needed 3 strung across the back and Oliseh sitting in front them in a disciplined manner to nullify any attacking threat.

The drop of since they played has been catastrophic.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:52 pm 
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Bigbrovah story story story! If you’re going to adulation them for winning ANC and round of 16 then you better do the same for keshi boys that equaled that achievement because you don’t know when next you will win.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:08 pm 
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proclaimjesus02 wrote:


Jay jay pass now! :D :D :D


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:28 pm 
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The drawbacks of the over-commitment to attack were demonstrated in the 1998 and 2000 losses to less talented but better drilled Denmark and Cameroon teams, who sat back and then counter-attacked the isolated 2 Nigerian CDs and Oliseh. Nigeria lost 1-4 to Denmark and were 0-2 down to Cameroon after half an hour.

I recall that right after the Denmark game, Oliseh said "I could not do it (defend) by myself". One wonders how that game may have turned out differently if instead of going gung-ho, Nigeria had played a second water carrier beside Oliseh? That way, Okocha could do his tricks further upfield with the security that Oliseh + 1 other would protect the CDs from the marauding counter-attacks. We see a similar dynamic in modern football where teams use 2 DMs to cover the space left by their mercurial attackers (eg. Matic and Herrera, or Pirlo/Marchisio, or Matuidi/Kante for Pogba, Busquets/Rakitic for Messi and Neymar, Verratti/Marquinhos/Rabiot for Neymar).

Aswani wrote:

While I take your point about the all attacking nature of the team, no one wanted to play them. This was the last group of physically strong players we had. I believe they only needed 3 strung across the back and Oliseh sitting in front them in a disciplined manner to nullify any attacking threat.

The drop of since they played has been catastrophic.


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