USA: MLS Expanding Quickly.......

[Enugu II]

MLS to expand to 30 teams, Panthers owner wants one
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/c ... umor-mill/
Posted by Darin Gantt on April 19, 2019, 6:50 AM EDT


Major League Soccer announced last night plans to expand to 30 teams, two more than they had planned.

And Panthers owner David Tepper has made it clear he wants one.

“Professional soccer at all levels is thriving in the United States and Canada and we believe there are many markets that could support a successful MLS club,” MLS Commissioner Don Garber said in a statement. “Expansion during the last 15 years has been enormously successful and a key driver behind the league’s continued rise, and we are pleased that some of the top business and community leaders representing great markets in North America are aggressively pursuing MLS expansion clubs.”

The league currently has 27 teams, and planned to picking their 28th and 29th teams by July 31. The expansion fee for those two teams was set at $200 million. There’s no timetable or fee set for the 30th team yet.

MLS is involved in discussions with Sacramento and St. Louis, and they will make formal presentations to the league soon. But Tepper has made no secret of his have a team to play in a renovated Bank of America Stadium (rather than building a smaller, soccer-specific stadium), and recently sent a survey to locals in Charlotte about interest and pricing options for tickets.

“We’ve been doing a lot of talking, obviously, so we’ll see,” Tepper said at the recent NFL owners meetings. “It’s an interesting question, from what their timeline is. it’s not just our timeline.

“We’re trying to push things forward. Listen, this is the best chance at the cheapest price. Even if we say to the city we need some money to re-do the stadium, it’s so cheap, versus $300 million that you need to build a new stadium. It’s the best bargain, ever, you know what I’m saying? if we could get something done. Because the amount of economic impact to the Charlotte region from having those games in here are so big, so we’re making a push. And that would be really good for the region if we could get it.”

Tepper, the richest single owner in the NFL, has made some other subtle suggestions that an ask for public money for his renovation is coming.

If he gets in the club, he’d join five other NFL owners in MLS: Arthur Blank (Atlanta), Stan Kroenke (Colorado Rapids), Jimmy and Dee Haslam (Columbus), Clark Hunt (Dallas), Robert Kraft (New England), with others as minority investors.

[mcal]

...great moves. See as their millionaires and billionaires are investing in local sport but our own often celebrated riches wan go buy Arsenal, foreign clubs. Classic money mis-road.

[Enugu II]

...great moves. See as their millionaires and billionaires are investing in local sport but our own often celebrated riches wan go buy Arsenal, foreign clubs. Classic money mis-road.

mcal,

It is more nuanced than that. These USA millionaires know that these franchises appreciate quickly and this is purely business decision. To invest in a Nigerian club at the moment is not a smart business decision because of the current environment. That is a major difference. It can change but several instruments need to be in play to create that environment in Nigeria and it will come not from the businesspersons.

[mcal]

...great moves. See as their millionaires and billionaires are investing in local sport but our own often celebrated riches wan go buy Arsenal, foreign clubs. Classic money mis-road.

mcal,

It is more nuanced than that. These USA millionaires know that these franchises appreciate quickly and this is purely business decision. To invest in a Nigerian club at the moment is not a smart business decision because of the current environment. That is a major difference. It can change but several instruments need to be in play to create that environment in Nigeria and it will come not from the businesspersons.

...agree, and those instruments includes serious privatization of clubs. Today sports is business, and in Nigeria our popular sport, football, is it. As per the "right time", I think now is it too.

[txj]

I have always maintained that the problem with successfully building and sustainably running pro clubs in Nigeria is not so much the absence of money as it is of poor management.

The MLS, I think is on its way to becoming the #1 football league outside Europe. Especially if the plan to merge with the Mexican league comes to fruition...

The cost of a franchise atm is $150m!

[JACKAL]

I already wrote that the center of the football world is about to shift from Just western Europe. It will be shared between China, USA and Western Europe.... The world is awash with Money and the 1%-ers are looking for places to put their money...

Nigeria has a shot of creating a small shift and making it the Main development league in Africa if it changes how the game is run in Nigeria.. shifting from quasi government control to a full fledged free market Industry. You guys already see La-liga making a play for the Nigerian market with all the corporative agreements they are signing with the league, clubs and academy's. Chuckweze is a tip of the ice berg..

[Enugu II]

I already wrote that the center of the football world is about to shift from Just western Europe. It will be shared between China, USA and Western Europe.... The world is awash with Money and the 1%-ers are looking for places to put their money...

Nigeria has a shot of creating a small shift and making it the Main development league in Africa if it changes how the game is run in Nigeria.. shifting from quasi government control to a full fledged free market Industry. You guys already see La-liga making a play for the Nigerian market with all the corporative agreements they are signing with the league, clubs and academy's. Chuckweze is a tip of the ice berg..

I certainly agree with your take on the potential in Nigeria. However, it will be a stiff fight to achieve what you stated above. Think of the difficulty of improving electricity supply in Nigeria. It may sound a bizarre analogy but I use it to point to the entrenchment of a profiteering class that resists change in the industry. That is what is suffocating Nigerias football. The profiteers attached to the state make it difficult to disentangle state stranglehold on the game.

As for your prediction on the shift, I actually will argue somewhat against your prediction. It is not about to shift, it is ACTUALLY shifting. However, my belief is that the early symptoms that you point to in terms of the USA and China neglects the rather obvious impact of the Middle East. What you see with the Middle East in capturing media control (Beinsport e.g.) and then ownership of major Euro clubs, is moving towards a different stage which is situating the league in their homeland. These early stages are notable already in the attempt by the owner of Pyramids FC in Egypt and the early associated developments in both Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

[txj]

I already wrote that the center of the football world is about to shift from Just western Europe. It will be shared between China, USA and Western Europe.... The world is awash with Money and the 1%-ers are looking for places to put their money...

Nigeria has a shot of creating a small shift and making it the Main development league in Africa if it changes how the game is run in Nigeria.. shifting from quasi government control to a full fledged free market Industry. You guys already see La-liga making a play for the Nigerian market with all the corporative agreements they are signing with the league, clubs and academy's. Chuckweze is a tip of the ice berg..

I certainly agree with your take on the potential in Nigeria. However, it will be a stiff fight to achieve what you stated above. Think of the difficulty of improving electricity supply in Nigeria. It may sound a bizarre analogy but I use it to point to the entrenchment of a profiteering class that resists change in the industry. That is what is suffocating Nigerias football. The profiteers attached to the state make it difficult to disentangle state stranglehold on the game.

As for your prediction on the shift, I actually will argue somewhat against your prediction. It is not about to shift, it is ACTUALLY shifting. However, my belief is that the early symptoms that you point to in terms of the USA and China neglects the rather obvious impact of the Middle East. What you see with the Middle East in capturing media control (Beinsport e.g.) and then ownership of major Euro clubs, is moving towards a different stage which is situating the league in their homeland. These early stages are notable already in the attempt by the owner of Pyramids FC in Egypt and the early associated developments in both Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

Neither China nor the Middle East countries have the basis to create a sustainable top league in the near future, moreso the latter.

[Enugu II]

I already wrote that the center of the football world is about to shift from Just western Europe. It will be shared between China, USA and Western Europe.... The world is awash with Money and the 1%-ers are looking for places to put their money...

Nigeria has a shot of creating a small shift and making it the Main development league in Africa if it changes how the game is run in Nigeria.. shifting from quasi government control to a full fledged free market Industry. You guys already see La-liga making a play for the Nigerian market with all the corporative agreements they are signing with the league, clubs and academy's. Chuckweze is a tip of the ice berg..

I certainly agree with your take on the potential in Nigeria. However, it will be a stiff fight to achieve what you stated above. Think of the difficulty of improving electricity supply in Nigeria. It may sound a bizarre analogy but I use it to point to the entrenchment of a profiteering class that resists change in the industry. That is what is suffocating Nigerias football. The profiteers attached to the state make it difficult to disentangle state stranglehold on the game.

As for your prediction on the shift, I actually will argue somewhat against your prediction. It is not about to shift, it is ACTUALLY shifting. However, my belief is that the early symptoms that you point to in terms of the USA and China neglects the rather obvious impact of the Middle East. What you see with the Middle East in capturing media control (Beinsport e.g.) and then ownership of major Euro clubs, is moving towards a different stage which is situating the league in their homeland. These early stages are notable already in the attempt by the owner of Pyramids FC in Egypt and the early associated developments in both Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

Neither China nor the Middle East countries have the basis to create a sustainable top league in the near future, moreso the latter.

Txj,

What are the basis?

[txj]

I already wrote that the center of the football world is about to shift from Just western Europe. It will be shared between China, USA and Western Europe.... The world is awash with Money and the 1%-ers are looking for places to put their money...

Nigeria has a shot of creating a small shift and making it the Main development league in Africa if it changes how the game is run in Nigeria.. shifting from quasi government control to a full fledged free market Industry. You guys already see La-liga making a play for the Nigerian market with all the corporative agreements they are signing with the league, clubs and academy's. Chuckweze is a tip of the ice berg..

I certainly agree with your take on the potential in Nigeria. However, it will be a stiff fight to achieve what you stated above. Think of the difficulty of improving electricity supply in Nigeria. It may sound a bizarre analogy but I use it to point to the entrenchment of a profiteering class that resists change in the industry. That is what is suffocating Nigerias football. The profiteers attached to the state make it difficult to disentangle state stranglehold on the game.

As for your prediction on the shift, I actually will argue somewhat against your prediction. It is not about to shift, it is ACTUALLY shifting. However, my belief is that the early symptoms that you point to in terms of the USA and China neglects the rather obvious impact of the Middle East. What you see with the Middle East in capturing media control (Beinsport e.g.) and then ownership of major Euro clubs, is moving towards a different stage which is situating the league in their homeland. These early stages are notable already in the attempt by the owner of Pyramids FC in Egypt and the early associated developments in both Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

Neither China nor the Middle East countries have the basis to create a sustainable top league in the near future, moreso the latter.

Txj,

What are the basis?

talent base..

[Enugu II]

I already wrote that the center of the football world is about to shift from Just western Europe. It will be shared between China, USA and Western Europe.... The world is awash with Money and the 1%-ers are looking for places to put their money...

Nigeria has a shot of creating a small shift and making it the Main development league in Africa if it changes how the game is run in Nigeria.. shifting from quasi government control to a full fledged free market Industry. You guys already see La-liga making a play for the Nigerian market with all the corporative agreements they are signing with the league, clubs and academy's. Chuckweze is a tip of the ice berg..

I certainly agree with your take on the potential in Nigeria. However, it will be a stiff fight to achieve what you stated above. Think of the difficulty of improving electricity supply in Nigeria. It may sound a bizarre analogy but I use it to point to the entrenchment of a profiteering class that resists change in the industry. That is what is suffocating Nigerias football. The profiteers attached to the state make it difficult to disentangle state stranglehold on the game.

As for your prediction on the shift, I actually will argue somewhat against your prediction. It is not about to shift, it is ACTUALLY shifting. However, my belief is that the early symptoms that you point to in terms of the USA and China neglects the rather obvious impact of the Middle East. What you see with the Middle East in capturing media control (Beinsport e.g.) and then ownership of major Euro clubs, is moving towards a different stage which is situating the league in their homeland. These early stages are notable already in the attempt by the owner of Pyramids FC in Egypt and the early associated developments in both Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

Neither China nor the Middle East countries have the basis to create a sustainable top league in the near future, moreso the latter.

Txj,

What are the basis?

talent base..

Txj,

Is that all? I would think that the bases will be more than just talent. Are there other significant ones?

[txj]

I already wrote that the center of the football world is about to shift from Just western Europe. It will be shared between China, USA and Western Europe.... The world is awash with Money and the 1%-ers are looking for places to put their money...

Nigeria has a shot of creating a small shift and making it the Main development league in Africa if it changes how the game is run in Nigeria.. shifting from quasi government control to a full fledged free market Industry. You guys already see La-liga making a play for the Nigerian market with all the corporative agreements they are signing with the league, clubs and academy's. Chuckweze is a tip of the ice berg..

I certainly agree with your take on the potential in Nigeria. However, it will be a stiff fight to achieve what you stated above. Think of the difficulty of improving electricity supply in Nigeria. It may sound a bizarre analogy but I use it to point to the entrenchment of a profiteering class that resists change in the industry. That is what is suffocating Nigerias football. The profiteers attached to the state make it difficult to disentangle state stranglehold on the game.

As for your prediction on the shift, I actually will argue somewhat against your prediction. It is not about to shift, it is ACTUALLY shifting. However, my belief is that the early symptoms that you point to in terms of the USA and China neglects the rather obvious impact of the Middle East. What you see with the Middle East in capturing media control (Beinsport e.g.) and then ownership of major Euro clubs, is moving towards a different stage which is situating the league in their homeland. These early stages are notable already in the attempt by the owner of Pyramids FC in Egypt and the early associated developments in both Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

Neither China nor the Middle East countries have the basis to create a sustainable top league in the near future, moreso the latter.

Txj,

What are the basis?

talent base..

Txj,

Is that all? I would think that the basis will be more than just talent. Are there other significant ones?

without a talent base, its hard to go to anything else...

[Enugu II]

I already wrote that the center of the football world is about to shift from Just western Europe. It will be shared between China, USA and Western Europe.... The world is awash with Money and the 1%-ers are looking for places to put their money...

Nigeria has a shot of creating a small shift and making it the Main development league in Africa if it changes how the game is run in Nigeria.. shifting from quasi government control to a full fledged free market Industry. You guys already see La-liga making a play for the Nigerian market with all the corporative agreements they are signing with the league, clubs and academy's. Chuckweze is a tip of the ice berg..

I certainly agree with your take on the potential in Nigeria. However, it will be a stiff fight to achieve what you stated above. Think of the difficulty of improving electricity supply in Nigeria. It may sound a bizarre analogy but I use it to point to the entrenchment of a profiteering class that resists change in the industry. That is what is suffocating Nigerias football. The profiteers attached to the state make it difficult to disentangle state stranglehold on the game.

As for your prediction on the shift, I actually will argue somewhat against your prediction. It is not about to shift, it is ACTUALLY shifting. However, my belief is that the early symptoms that you point to in terms of the USA and China neglects the rather obvious impact of the Middle East. What you see with the Middle East in capturing media control (Beinsport e.g.) and then ownership of major Euro clubs, is moving towards a different stage which is situating the league in their homeland. These early stages are notable already in the attempt by the owner of Pyramids FC in Egypt and the early associated developments in both Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

Neither China nor the Middle East countries have the basis to create a sustainable top league in the near future, moreso the latter.

Txj,

What are the basis?

talent base..

Txj,

Is that all? I would think that the basis will be more than just talent. Are there other significant ones?

without a talent base, its hard to go to anything else...

Txj,

I actually think there are more, some of which are more difficult than talent. I was hoping that you would list them so that we can have a fuller and educative discussions open each one of them. In any case, let's take talent and then some others that come to mind as challenges for the Middle East (my focus here).

I agree that talent is absolutely important. But what is being done here in the Middle East? Here are two points (a) Talent can be attracted to play in the Middle East. One example is of course our own Ahmed Musa who joined a club in Saudi Arabia that already had in its fold a Colombian International. (b) The setting up of the Aspire Academy in Qatar is designed to develop local talent. It has now been doing this for years. Some of those helped win the Asian Cup. (c) Al-Sheikh, a Saudi businessman who established Pyramids FC in Egypt was responsible for arrAnging the transfer of nine (?) Saudi internationals to La Liga clubs just before the last WC. Strategies (b) and (c) appear long term while strategy (a) is short term.

But I actually think that there are more obstacles to the Middle East getting to where it needs to be but even those obstacles are not unsurmountable. Take for instance, the obstacles of culture. This, I believe may be a major hindrance. Here I do not thin k of the footballer only but the footballer's family and having to live in a place that could be socially restrictive. Here, however, some of these countries are more restrictive than others and some are opening up their society more than others.

Third, media is a major issue because they frame the stories that affect how the public view things. Beinsports currently is owned by Al Jazeera and that ownership of a major sporting media will be critical down the road.

IMHO, there are more factors. The observations above should not be underestimated in terms of what the future holds. Already., the Middle East using wealthy businessmen and Sovereign Wealth Funds are buying up critical teams, besides major properties around the world. Today (unlike say three decades ago), Dubai has become a major travel destination. The point here is that the world will not be static, there will be changes. It is imply a matter of time and resources to overcome hurdles.

[Senator WIRES]

'This is why people don't take MLS seriously':

Fans mock New York City goalkeeper Sean Johnson after he fails to control simple back pass and ball ends up in his own net
Minnesota United's clash with New York City centred around an absolute howler
Sean Johnson tried to control the ball and allowed it to roll straight into his goal
Fans immediately began to mock and others questioned the standard of MLS
Ismael Tajouri spared his team-mate's blushes by equalising in the second half

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... owler.html

[txj]

Txj,

I actually think there are more, some of which are more difficult than talent. I was hoping that you would list them so that we can have a fuller and educative discussions open each one of them. In any case, let's take talent and then some others that come to mind as challenges for the Middle East (my focus here).

I agree that talent is absolutely important. But what is being done here in the Middle East? Here are two points (a) Talent can be attracted to play in the Middle East. One example is of course our own Ahmed Musa who joined a club in Saudi Arabia that already had in its fold a Colombian International. (b) The setting up of the Aspire Academy in Qatar is designed to develop local talent. It has now been doing this for years. Some of those helped win the Asian Cup. (c) Al-Sheikh, a Saudi businessman who established Pyramids FC in Egypt was responsible for arrAnging the transfer of nine (?) Saudi internationals to La Liga clubs just before the last WC. Strategies (b) and (c) appear long term while strategy (a) is short term.

But I actually think that there are more obstacles to the Middle East getting to where it needs to be but even those obstacles are not unsurmountable. Take for instance, the obstacles of culture. This, I believe may be a major hindrance. Here I do not thin k of the footballer only but the footballer's family and having to live in a place that could be socially restrictive. Here, however, some of these countries are more restrictive than others and some are opening up their society more than others.

Third, media is a major issue because they frame the stories that affect how the public view things. Beinsports currently is owned by Al Jazeera and that ownership of a major sporting media will be critical down the road.

IMHO, there are more factors. The observations above should not be underestimated in terms of what the future holds. Already., the Middle East using wealthy businessmen and Sovereign Wealth Funds are buying up critical teams, besides major properties around the world. Today (unlike say three decades ago), Dubai has become a major travel destination. The point here is that the world will not be static, there will be changes. It is imply a matter of time and resources to overcome hurdles.

Owning foreign clubs has little impact on sustainably developing a top domestic league.

Neither does the ability to sign top foreign players have much impact in the long run, if there is not a corresponding base of local talent. You of all peeps should know from the failure of the NASL and the import of the likes of Pele and Beckenbeur...

Note that the ME countries have been importing foreign players for decades, with little to show for it in their domestic game.

The one country you should've cited is Egypt, but apart from money, the cultural part u cite is very crucial for them and is what has held them back. Note the recent statement attributed to Salah...

Sure, the football world is not static, as the US example is showing clearly...Sure there are other factors.

But certain fundamental factors remain. You have to have first a talent base....

[txj]

'This is why people don't take MLS seriously':

Fans mock New York City goalkeeper Sean Johnson after he fails to control simple back pass and ball ends up in his own net
Minnesota United's clash with New York City centred around an absolute howler
Sean Johnson tried to control the ball and allowed it to roll straight into his goal
Fans immediately began to mock and others questioned the standard of MLS
Ismael Tajouri spared his team-mate's blushes by equalising in the second half

I suppose we shouldn't take the EPL serious because of the De Gea goal!!!

[Enugu II]

Txj,

I actually think there are more, some of which are more difficult than talent. I was hoping that you would list them so that we can have a fuller and educative discussions open each one of them. In any case, let's take talent and then some others that come to mind as challenges for the Middle East (my focus here).

I agree that talent is absolutely important. But what is being done here in the Middle East? Here are two points (a) Talent can be attracted to play in the Middle East. One example is of course our own Ahmed Musa who joined a club in Saudi Arabia that already had in its fold a Colombian International. (b) The setting up of the Aspire Academy in Qatar is designed to develop local talent. It has now been doing this for years. Some of those helped win the Asian Cup. (c) Al-Sheikh, a Saudi businessman who established Pyramids FC in Egypt was responsible for arrAnging the transfer of nine (?) Saudi internationals to La Liga clubs just before the last WC. Strategies (b) and (c) appear long term while strategy (a) is short term.

But I actually think that there are more obstacles to the Middle East getting to where it needs to be but even those obstacles are not unsurmountable. Take for instance, the obstacles of culture. This, I believe may be a major hindrance. Here I do not thin k of the footballer only but the footballer's family and having to live in a place that could be socially restrictive. Here, however, some of these countries are more restrictive than others and some are opening up their society more than others.

Third, media is a major issue because they frame the stories that affect how the public view things. Beinsports currently is owned by Al Jazeera and that ownership of a major sporting media will be critical down the road.

IMHO, there are more factors. The observations above should not be underestimated in terms of what the future holds. Already., the Middle East using wealthy businessmen and Sovereign Wealth Funds are buying up critical teams, besides major properties around the world. Today (unlike say three decades ago), Dubai has become a major travel destination. The point here is that the world will not be static, there will be changes. It is imply a matter of time and resources to overcome hurdles.

Owning foreign clubs has little impact on sustainably developing a top domestic league.

Neither does the ability to sign top foreign players have much impact in the long run, if there is not a corresponding base of local talent. You of all peeps should know from the failure of the NASL and the import of the likes of Pele and Beckenbeur...

Note that the ME countries have been importing foreign players for decades, with little to show for it in their domestic game.

The one country you should've cited is Egypt, but apart from money, the cultural part u cite is very crucial for them and is what has held them back. Note the recent statement attributed to Salah...

Sure, the football world is not static, as the US example is showing clearly...Sure there are other factors.

But certain fundamental factors remain. You have to have first a talent base....

Txj,

It seems you are limited by what exists today. However, the point Jackal makes and that I agree with requires thinking out of the box of today and being able to visualize a different world. It isn't exact science but it is the type of exercise that led to the ability of the Middle East to begin assuming ownership of European clubs.

Importing players in the Middle East is going to be much different from what you state above. Think the future and not the past. What you should be asking is what will stop the Middle East from importing massive number of players in the future and not to think that their rate of importation will ONLY mirror the past. If you argue that it will only mirror the past, then why would it be so?

I have not cited Egypt and for an important reason. Egypt has not shown the inclination to expand outside of itself or to significantly import top-level players. I look to England as an example where the league is propped by mega talents imported from outside. In essence, I believe the Middle East project will not simply be about its own locals but about importation of foreign talents which has already begun in significant ways, different from what you are referring to.

I am surprised that you do not see the link between owning clubs outside and developing the local game. There are several relationships there -- including demanding training of Middle East talents in those clubs, getting those clubs to play in the Middle East to generate huge interests, among other opportunities.

As for the USA, the failure of NASL was not simply because of importation of players but at that time there were issues with planning for sustainability in terms of money paid out and in-coming revenue. Today's world is far more globalized than what existed in the days of NASL (see revenue possibilities & extension) and there are more fans of the game in the country and there is better planning underway.

The highlighted seems like you are headed to to the usual .. make a point and dig deeper. I have no interest in that. Whether talent is first or last is of no consequence, if you ask me. What I do understand is that talent is indeed an important factor. In any case, what I am interested is a wider and informative discussion that is not siloed. See this as an open discussion without the need to dig trenches.If we cannot have an informative discussion, then I will move on and have one with others more open to new ideas.

[Enugu II]

BTW, instead of my speculation of the future for the Middle East and football, I found the article below that confirms something similar but not quite as far as I have speculated. Notice how the thinking is outside the box and beyond what is obtainable now. Notice the link between ownership of European clubs and development of their local leagues. It is such imaginary that I want to discuss.

And BTW, while we are at it -- Why is it that we (Nigeria) are not planning to establish the SWF to invest in things like this that have high probability of financially appreciating in not too long in the future?

Saudi billionaires targeting top London clubs for takeovers
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footba ... 06401.html
BENEDICT MOORE-BRIDGER
Monday 28 November 2016 11:20


Several London football clubs are apparently being targeted for takeover by Middle Eastern billionaires after Saudi Arabia decided to privatise its own professional league.

Saudi investors could now buy British clubs and use them as a “tie-in” with sides in a private equity-backed league in the kingdom. At present, most teams in the Saudi Professional League are government-owned.

The country’s Council of Economic and Development Affairs recommended the establishment of a private professional football league after consultancy firm Deloitte conducted a year-long feasibility study into the privatisation of its sports clubs.

The move is expected to increase investment to build stadiums and bring in foreign transfers, according to Saudi reports.

One Saudi investor said today: “I know of two or three clubs around London that are being looked at by Saudi consortiums and individuals who want to tie them in with clubs at home. It would be a perfect fit.

Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea fans pay highest Prem season ticket prices
“It would be good for players, coaches and technical experts too, as we would need British expertise to help set up the league.”

Saudi Arabia is also planning to create a sovereign wealth fund with assets of about $2 trillion (£1.6 trillion), some of which could be earmarked for British clubs.

All you need to know about Tottenham's new stadium now it's been approved
Saudi football insiders say many investors are keen to take over Championship clubs, as securing them promotion to the Premier League would be highly lucrative. Last week it was reported that a Saudi group wanted to buy League One title-chasers Bolton Wanderers.

Middle Eastern money is already a significant presence in European football. Manchester City are owned by the Abu Dhabi United Group and Paris Saint-Germain by Qatar Sports Investments (QSI), and Barcelona ended their historic ban on corporate sponsorship to sign a five-year €150 million deal with QSI in 2011.

Sports investments by countries such as Qatar and the UAE are part of strategic moves to diversify their economies away from oil.

[txj]

Txj,

I actually think there are more, some of which are more difficult than talent. I was hoping that you would list them so that we can have a fuller and educative discussions open each one of them. In any case, let's take talent and then some others that come to mind as challenges for the Middle East (my focus here).

I agree that talent is absolutely important. But what is being done here in the Middle East? Here are two points (a) Talent can be attracted to play in the Middle East. One example is of course our own Ahmed Musa who joined a club in Saudi Arabia that already had in its fold a Colombian International. (b) The setting up of the Aspire Academy in Qatar is designed to develop local talent. It has now been doing this for years. Some of those helped win the Asian Cup. (c) Al-Sheikh, a Saudi businessman who established Pyramids FC in Egypt was responsible for arrAnging the transfer of nine (?) Saudi internationals to La Liga clubs just before the last WC. Strategies (b) and (c) appear long term while strategy (a) is short term.

But I actually think that there are more obstacles to the Middle East getting to where it needs to be but even those obstacles are not unsurmountable. Take for instance, the obstacles of culture. This, I believe may be a major hindrance. Here I do not thin k of the footballer only but the footballer's family and having to live in a place that could be socially restrictive. Here, however, some of these countries are more restrictive than others and some are opening up their society more than others.

Third, media is a major issue because they frame the stories that affect how the public view things. Beinsports currently is owned by Al Jazeera and that ownership of a major sporting media will be critical down the road.

IMHO, there are more factors. The observations above should not be underestimated in terms of what the future holds. Already., the Middle East using wealthy businessmen and Sovereign Wealth Funds are buying up critical teams, besides major properties around the world. Today (unlike say three decades ago), Dubai has become a major travel destination. The point here is that the world will not be static, there will be changes. It is imply a matter of time and resources to overcome hurdles.

Owning foreign clubs has little impact on sustainably developing a top domestic league.

Neither does the ability to sign top foreign players have much impact in the long run, if there is not a corresponding base of local talent. You of all peeps should know from the failure of the NASL and the import of the likes of Pele and Beckenbeur...

Note that the ME countries have been importing foreign players for decades, with little to show for it in their domestic game.

The one country you should've cited is Egypt, but apart from money, the cultural part u cite is very crucial for them and is what has held them back. Note the recent statement attributed to Salah...

Sure, the football world is not static, as the US example is showing clearly...Sure there are other factors.

But certain fundamental factors remain. You have to have first a talent base....

Txj,

It seems you are limited by what exists today. However, the point Jackal makes and that I agree with requires thinking out of the box of today and being able to visualize a different world. It isn't exact science but it is the type of exercise that led to the ability of the Middle East to begin assuming ownership of European clubs.

Importing players in the Middle East is going to be much different from what you state above. Think the future and not the past. What you should be asking is what will stop the Middle East from importing massive number of players in the future and not to think that their rate of importation will ONLY mirror the past. If you argue that it will only mirror the past, then why would it be so?

I have not cited Egypt and for an important reason. Egypt has not shown the inclination to expand outside of itself or to significantly import top-level players. I look to England as an example where the league is propped by mega talents imported from outside. In essence, I believe the Middle East project will not simply be about its own locals but about importation of foreign talents which has already begun in significant ways, different from what you are referring to.

I am surprised that you do not see the link between owning clubs outside and developing the local game. There are several relationships there -- including demanding training of Middle East talents in those clubs, getting those clubs to play in the Middle East to generate huge interests, among other opportunities.

As for the USA, the failure of NASL was not simply because of importation of players but at that time there were issues with planning for sustainability in terms of money paid out and in-coming revenue. Today's world is far more globalized than what existed in the days of NASL (see revenue possibilities & extension) and there are more fans of the game in the country and there is better planning underway.

The highlighted seems like you are headed to to the usual .. make a point and dig deeper. I have no interest in that. Whether talent is first or last is of no consequence, if you ask me. What I do understand is that talent is indeed an important factor. In any case, what I am interested is a wider and informative discussion that is not siloed. See this as an open discussion without the need to dig trenches.If we cannot have an informative discussion, then I will move on and have one with others more open to new ideas.

The problem with debating with you is that you assume automatically that one should reach your own conclusion, and is thus narrow minded if I fail in this regard. It doesn't work that way!

You have to have points that make sense to me!!!

The English game, including the levels below the EPL is based on a preponderance of English talent.

The massive importation that you are talking about is not based on reality. Where are they going to come from? How many contracts would u have to burst? What about the owners of these players; will they have any say in these players just upping and leaving?

What about the influence of the history of these clubs on the players? The Chinese are attempting this as we speak. What is the result?

I'm not saying that leagues cannot be built in any of these countries, but top leagues that can challenge Europe in the Middle East is far fetched. The ownership of English clubs by ME moguls is not enough. There isn't enough talent to send to these clubs for training. Look at Aspire Academy- how many Nigerians are there? How many Emirati kids are there?

Its not just a theoretical exercise in futurism. It has to be based on reality.

What puts the major leagues at the level they are is the anchor of domestic talent AND followership, often the result of the former. The foreign players are what put them over the top- the icing on the cake so to say.

Why the US is an interesting case is the potential effect of its highly diverse citizenship base. True, the NASL did not fail simply cus of importation of players. However the managers of the MLS realized that this was a failing model and that it needed to be reversed.

That's how important a factor this was. There is still import of foreign players under the designated-player tag, but the base is anchored firmly on a local talent base- AND then the ensuing followership...

[txj]

BTW, instead of my speculation of the future for the Middle East and football, I found the article below that confirms something similar but not quite as far as I have speculated. Notice how the thinking is outside the box and beyond what is obtainable now. Notice the link between ownership of European clubs and development of their local leagues. It is such imaginary that I want to discuss.

And BTW, while we are at it -- Why is it that we (Nigeria) are not planning to establish the SWF to invest in things like this that have high probability of financially appreciating in not too long in the future?

Saudi billionaires targeting top London clubs for takeovers
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footba ... 06401.html
BENEDICT MOORE-BRIDGER
Monday 28 November 2016 11:20


Several London football clubs are apparently being targeted for takeover by Middle Eastern billionaires after Saudi Arabia decided to privatise its own professional league.

Saudi investors could now buy British clubs and use them as a “tie-in” with sides in a private equity-backed league in the kingdom. At present, most teams in the Saudi Professional League are government-owned.

The country’s Council of Economic and Development Affairs recommended the establishment of a private professional football league after consultancy firm Deloitte conducted a year-long feasibility study into the privatisation of its sports clubs.

The move is expected to increase investment to build stadiums and bring in foreign transfers, according to Saudi reports.

One Saudi investor said today: “I know of two or three clubs around London that are being looked at by Saudi consortiums and individuals who want to tie them in with clubs at home. It would be a perfect fit.

Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea fans pay highest Prem season ticket prices
“It would be good for players, coaches and technical experts too, as we would need British expertise to help set up the league.”

Saudi Arabia is also planning to create a sovereign wealth fund with assets of about $2 trillion (£1.6 trillion), some of which could be earmarked for British clubs.

All you need to know about Tottenham's new stadium now it's been approved
Saudi football insiders say many investors are keen to take over Championship clubs, as securing them promotion to the Premier League would be highly lucrative. Last week it was reported that a Saudi group wanted to buy League One title-chasers Bolton Wanderers.

Middle Eastern money is already a significant presence in European football. Manchester City are owned by the Abu Dhabi United Group and Paris Saint-Germain by Qatar Sports Investments (QSI), and Barcelona ended their historic ban on corporate sponsorship to sign a five-year €150 million deal with QSI in 2011.

Sports investments by countries such as Qatar and the UAE are part of strategic moves to diversify their economies away from oil.

I am not sure any Nigerian economist who would recommend foreign clubs as an interest for a Nigerian SWF. Perhaps a Formula 1 team...but Oldham Athletic? No sir!

There are already such tie-ins between clubs in different countries.

Now the question is how much impact will this have? And more importantly, will this be of the seismic level the OP has suggested here?

I think not...

[Enugu II]

The problem with debating with you is that you assume automatically that one should reach your own conclusion, and is thus narrow minded if I fail in this regard. It doesn't work that way!

You have to have points that make sense to me!!!

The English game, including the levels below the EPL is based on a preponderance of English talent.

The massive importation that you are talking about is not based on reality. Where are they going to come from? How many contracts would u have to burst? What about the owners of these players; will they have any say in these players just upping and leaving?

What about the influence of the history of these clubs on the players? The Chinese are attempting this as we speak. What is the result?

I'm not saying that leagues cannot be built in any of these countries, but top leagues that can challenge Europe in the Middle East is far fetched. The ownership of English clubs by ME moguls is not enough. There isn't enough talent to send to these clubs for training. Look at Aspire Academy- how many Nigerians are there? How many Emirati kids are there?

Its not just a theoretical exercise in futurism. It has to be based on reality.

What puts the major leagues at the level they are is the anchor of domestic talent AND followership, often the result of the former. The foreign players are what put them over the top- the icing on the cake so to say.

Why the US is an interesting case is the potential effect of its highly diverse citizenship base. True, the NASL did not fail simply cus of importation of players. However the managers of the MLS realized that this was a failing model and that it needed to be reversed.

That's how important a factor this was. There is still import of foreign players under the designated-player tag, but the base is anchored firmly on a local talent base- AND then the ensuing followership...

Txj,

I like the point that you make indicating additional obstacles i.e. the effect of the history of the clubs. That is an issue that was not initially brought up and it certainly affects growing a league. However, I will point to the fact that the Saudi clubs (as an example) do have established history at home and thus the home support is there. The challenge would be how to extend such followership to a global audience. I believe that this is where the media comes in and currently while Al Jazeera (owners of Beinsport) is at loggerhead with the Saudis, the Saudis have the capability to purchase media of similar magnitude to help build a global audience with the attraction of prime talent. Of course, this is with the belief that the cultural issue mentioned earlier can be overcome.

You speak of Middle East talent as not adequate to help such an anticipated league. It is important to note that such local talent has been at the forefront of Saudis significance presence in European club competitions already. I believe that such talents will complement those that can be imported from abroad. Their talent level (Saudi i.e.) is certainly higher than what the local talent is in China even though I think the local Chinese talent will be adequate going forward. Your mention of Nigerian players at Aspire Academy is interesting. Note that while Aspire seeks players from all over to enter its academy at age of 12-14, a large number of these kids of course become naturalized and are Qatari citizens and thus local talents! Some were part of Qatari's recent victory in Asia and many are representing the country in track and field as we speak.

I will not under estimate the shift to the Middle East in the future. Now, I cannot tell you that it will happen in 10-20 years but the trajectory is there. The strategic decisions are being made today for tomorrow's world.

[Enugu II]

I just thought about another obstacle and this may well be impossible or very difficult to overcome. In this case it would be a regulation from Europe/FIFA that makes it difficult for countries like Saudi Arabia to build such a league. We saw an example of this with FIFA's issuing of nationality eligibility in football that made it more difficult for Qatar to quickly naturalize foreign footballers with its own citizenship rules. This, many believe, was based on European protectionism to curb the treat of Qatar's rise in international football. Such regulatory changes may pre-empt the possibility here.

[Bell]

TO AMERICAN & FOREIGN DENIERS, AS I'VE SAID BEFORE...


...let me say again, soccer is on its way to become America's no 1 sport, in the next several years, as people become more familiar with it and accept some of its uniqueness. This will be accelerated by the health concerns around football and waning interest in the boring nature of baseball. Over the past several years, all the indices that I've looked show progress. Some people in America, who resent soccer because it's not native, and foreigners, because America has never been a soccer country, will be shocked. Within the next 20 years, I see America competing on equal footing with world talent.
Bell