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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:18 pm 
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danfo driver wrote:
While he has consistently improved over the last 4-5 years, the consistency one needs to be classified as "world class" is in "performance at the top." He has never won a title in his coaching career and this is his first CL appearance.

Ten Hag and Klopp.

One has won trophies. One has not. Which is the winner?

Take your time. Think it through slowly. :D

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:49 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
kalani JR wrote:
hestonap wrote:
kalani JR wrote:
hestonap wrote:
He certainly is better than Juve and Real class for sure. This one is no fluke. Someone please give the man a cookie for ‘reinventing’ the good old Dutch total football using novices and kids against squads assembled wth zillions.
He is football class for those who love the game and all it stands for.


He won two legged ties, Zidane won three Champions Leagues in a row and Allegri has made finals appearances in half of the last four editions.


Since you chose to bring Zidane into this; well he had the luxury of World Cup winners and arguably the best player of his generation in his squad. This guy has kids and low profile players. They didn’t pack the bus, they beat bigger fishes while playing expansive and attractive football.

Not detracting from Zidane’s achievements but I find the work this chap has done very very impressive.



Not denying that what Ajax has done this season is impressive but its only one season right now where nothing has been won and you can't proclaim a man world class just off a single season (see Andre Villas Boas).


I would disagree that a trophy has to be the decider of whether this coach has had a very significant season or not.


I haven't and wouldn't argue against this, reducing an highly unfavored team from relegation can be a great season, what ten Hag and even Poch are having right now in the Champions League are great seasons. I'm just speaking on evaluating them within the larger context and scheme of things.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:13 pm 
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Dude is awesome. The way his team plays is absolutely fantastic. Don't know if the term world class should be used, but dude is awesome. Simple!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:49 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
danfo driver wrote:
While he has consistently improved over the last 4-5 years, the consistency one needs to be classified as "world class" is in "performance at the top." He has never won a title in his coaching career and this is his first CL appearance.


Agreed, this is his first CL appearance but he has done well with the talent at his disposal. Doing far more with less profile players than the guys that have so many words written about them, should be respected.



He is presently 1st on the table in the Eredivisie, with 106 goals scored.


If he ends the season with the title, would you recommend that he remains at Ajax next season? Or goes to a club that is considered bigger than Ajax?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:38 am 
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hestonap wrote:
He certainly is better than Juve and Real class for sure. This one is no fluke. Someone please give the man a cookie for ‘reinventing’ the good old Dutch total football using novices and kids against squads assembled wth zillions.
He is football class for those who love the game and all it stands for.


This season he has beaten Juve and Real Madrid in one of games in a knockout competition. Does this make him better?

One thing I am in complete agreement is your point about good old fashioned Dutch total football. They play 4-3-3 mainly, but like we saw against Real Madrid, they can also play 4-2-3-1.

But you have to admire the coaching to get those players to perform like they have. I really hope they can win it. It takes a lot of work to get players performing and playing the sort of football they play. It us the hardest way to do it and I duff my hat to him.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:43 am 
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Enugu II wrote:
EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA wrote:
What is the definition of world class? It seems itS a term Nigerians use when they like a player they think had a good game with a big team. 24hrs ago nobody ever mentioned his name on CE, now he’s world class.


I am not certain what it is. What I know for sure is that it is subjective.

:mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:44 am 
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Enugu II wrote:
hestonap wrote:
He certainly is better than Juve and Real class for sure. This one is no fluke. Someone please give the man a cookie for ‘reinventing’ the good old Dutch total football using novices and kids against squads assembled wth zillions.
He is football class for those who love the game and all it stands for.


Thanks for that point. This guy must be respected for upending teams built with zillions and then coaches are hyped based on those zillion-worth players. I will bow for this guy first before those who are hyped based on zillion-worth players.

I concur.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:56 am 
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txj wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
txj wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Kalani,

Let's leave the world class for a moment. The truth is that the term is used to attract attention to this thread. The point that I want to make substantively is that this guy's achievement, based on players at his disposal, is far more monumental that what the likes of Guardiola, Klopp, and others have done. Based on this that it is important to introduce contextual considerations in hyping coaches. Bring it home ( :lol: ) is to point out that Amuneke's work at Tanzania getting to the AFCON may well be more monumental that say Rohr getting Nigeria to the AFCON.



He has beaten Juve and Madrid. That is the extent of his achievement atm, whatever the level of his players might be. In the next few weeks, he could be pipped for the title by PSV (I think not)...

There has to be more. Jardim won more CL games with Monaco, but also a Ligue 1 title...

And to suggest his "achievement" is far more monumental than Klopp and Guardiola? Based on what exactly?

txj,

The statement is based on the pedigree of players at the disposal of those that are compared. The context is important in making those comparisons as I point out.


Pedigree is ephemeral; talent is the key issue, and make no mistake, Ajax is a very, very talented team, built on a playing model that goes back more than half a century.

Its a far too incomplete a project to be making such conclusive comparisons. Winning two games as underdogs cannot be a valid basis for such comparisons or conclusions...


True. They are a very talented bunch with some good experience too. I am not one for pedigree because they are past that very short phase. They are now a very talented team in the verge of winning.

For me, it is not about doing it in one season, it is about performing at the very top season after season and winning your fair share.

Yes, I duff my hat for his beautiful attacking football and his achievements so far, but it is much too early to make comparisons with those who have stood the test of time at the very top.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:37 pm 
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Waffiman wrote:
hestonap wrote:
He certainly is better than Juve and Real class for sure. This one is no fluke. Someone please give the man a cookie for ‘reinventing’ the good old Dutch total football using novices and kids against squads assembled wth zillions.
He is football class for those who love the game and all it stands for.


This season he has beaten Juve and Real Madrid in one of games in a knockout competition. Does this make him better?

One thing I am in complete agreement is your point about good old fashioned Dutch total football. They play 4-3-3 mainly, but like we saw against Real Madrid, they can also play 4-2-3-1.

But you have to admire the coaching to get those players to perform like they have. I really hope they can win it. It takes a lot of work to get players performing and playing the sort of football they play. It us the hardest way to do it and I duff my hat to him.


Waffiman,

On the basis of his performance ‘this season’ he certainly is better than both teams.

It will of course be silly to suggest that history counts for nothing because his body of work is not long enough. My central point perhaps not explicitly state well enough is that he has demonstrated himself better than the Juve and Real class of 2019.

You are going to have to coach for 50 years and outmatch the achievements of both teams before you can claim to be better than them historically which we know of course is not possible or going to ever happen.

For a guy to take a team of kids and novices and beat teams packed with pedigree while playing attractive not pack the bus football....you got to doff your hat. That $#% is not a fluke. The man knows his onions.

As for this argument about one off games.... is that not the basis of the competition at this stage and what all other winners have had to do in the past?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:54 pm 
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hestonap wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
hestonap wrote:
He certainly is better than Juve and Real class for sure. This one is no fluke. Someone please give the man a cookie for ‘reinventing’ the good old Dutch total football using novices and kids against squads assembled wth zillions.
He is football class for those who love the game and all it stands for.


This season he has beaten Juve and Real Madrid in one of games in a knockout competition. Does this make him better?

One thing I am in complete agreement is your point about good old fashioned Dutch total football. They play 4-3-3 mainly, but like we saw against Real Madrid, they can also play 4-2-3-1.

But you have to admire the coaching to get those players to perform like they have. I really hope they can win it. It takes a lot of work to get players performing and playing the sort of football they play. It us the hardest way to do it and I duff my hat to him.


Waffiman,

On the basis of his performance ‘this season’ he certainly is better than both teams.

It will of course be silly to suggest that history counts for nothing because his body of work is not long enough. My central point perhaps not explicitly state well enough is that he has demonstrated himself better than the Juve and Real class of 2019.

You are going to have to coach for 50 years and outmatch the achievements of both teams before you can claim to be better than them historically which we know of course is not possible or going to ever happen.

For a guy to take a team of kids and novices and beat teams packed with pedigree while playing attractive not pack the bus football....you got to doff your hat. That $#% is not a fluke. The man knows his onions.

As for this argument about one off games.... is that not the basis of the competition at this stage and what all other winners have had to do in the past?


While we are at this discussion, let's remind ourselves that Ajax have won 3 European Cups/CL and numerous titles in Holland. So Ajax are a club of similar quality and pedigree to Juve or Real.

The only objective analysis is of course the CL games, and in that basis, he is better than Juve and Real in the class of season 2018/19.

But when you factor in respective leagues and the positions of Real and Juve, are they really better? Of course it is arguable and a subjective call.

I have everything crossed for Ajax to win it this year.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:35 pm 
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danfo driver wrote:
While he has consistently improved over the last 4-5 years, the consistency one needs to be classified as "world class" is in "performance at the top." He has never won a title in his coaching career and this is his first CL appearance.


Until then, he is just having a very good run.


BTW, I personally believe it is a lot harder coaching "worldclass" players than good players.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:35 pm 
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I have not watched any Ajax games, but I like see a team with no big names in the last stages of the champions league. Here is how some pundit describe Ten Hag style


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 3:08 pm 
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Wanted to revisit this thread, but not to take anything away from the achievements of ET Hag this season...

The 2HF of the Spurs/Ajax game at WHL clearly underlined the only advantage Spurs could muster against Ajax was physical, via Lorente. And if there was any doubts about this, it was well cleared in the 1HF of the 2nd leg last night.

So when Lorente came on as a 2HF sub, it was clear what the game plan was.

But what was ETH/Ajax's plan for this? Largely it was Dany Blind sticking a left boot from Lorente's sides or De Light in a perpetually futile attempt to win a header...No doubling up on him; not a single focus on the 2nd ball...

The 1st and 3rd Spurs goals came from counterattacks. Counterattacks! Think about that for a moment...Counterattacks!!!

I am a believer in the primacy of football philosophy, and I think that is the ultimate failure of Ernesto Valverde at Barca, but nobody should be a slave to it.

Football is an emotional sport. It is first and foremost about the players.

This week's games reminded me again of a quote from Rafa Benitez I have saved for years.

And as Rafa put it, "the difference between top players is not about technique, but mentality".

The greatest of managers are therefore the ones who are able to use tactics and team organization to harness, enhance and properly channel the mentality and emotion of their players.

Last night Erik Ten Hag failed his players...Woefully!

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We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 4:02 pm 
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txj wrote:
Wanted to revisit this thread, but not to take anything away from the achievements of ET Hag this season...

The 2HF of the Spurs/Ajax game at WHL clearly underlined the only advantage Spurs could muster against Ajax was physical, via Lorente. And if there was any doubts about this, it was well cleared in the 1HF of the 2nd leg last night.

So when Lorente came on as a 2HF sub, it was clear what the game plan was.

But what was ETH/Ajax's plan for this? Largely it was Dany Blind sticking a left boot from Lorente's sides or De Light in a perpetually futile attempt to win a header...No doubling up on him; not a single focus on the 2nd ball...

The 1st and 3rd Spurs goals came from counterattacks. Counterattacks! Think about that for a moment...Counterattacks!!!

I am a believer in the primacy of football philosophy, and I think that is the ultimate failure of Ernesto Valverde at Barca, but nobody should be a slave to it.

Football is an emotional sport. It is first and foremost about the players.

This week's games reminded me again of a quote from Rafa Benitez I have saved for years.

And as Rafa put it, "the difference between top players is not about technique, but mentality".

The greatest of managers are therefore the ones who are able to use tactics and team organization to harness, enhance and properly channel the mentality and emotion of their players.

Last night Erik Ten Hag failed his players...Woefully!


:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

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metalalloy wrote:
Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 5:40 pm 
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I actually agree with Eriksen's view below about the last second win and how lucky it was.

Quote:
Eriksen makes surprising admission after Spurs’ dramatic win over Ajax
https://www.msn.com/en-za/news/other/eriksen-makes-surprising-admission-after-spurs-dramatic-win-over-ajax/ar-AAB67yh

Christian Eriksen was admirably humble and full of praise for Ajax after Tottenham produced an incredible second-half comeback to knock out the young Dutch side, setting up an all-English final against Liverpool.

But the Danish international admitted that he thought Ajax, his former club, were better over the two legs.

Spurs were dead and buried at half-time in the second leg at the Johan Cryuff Arena as they trailed the Amsterdam 2-0 on the night and 3-0 on aggregate after goals from Matthijs De Ligt and Hakim Ziyech.

However, a miraculous comeback, spearheaded by Lucas Moura - scorer of all three goals - was completed deep into added time when the Brazilian slotted home a loose ball to spark amazing scenes in Amsterdam.

Eriksen, speaking to BT Sport a few minutes after the final whistle, said: "I think it was a ridiculous game.

"We were really far down, we fought back and Ajax played a really good game. Over the two games they played better but we were just lucky when we scored. It was a relief because we've been fighting for this and now we're in a semi-final."

Spurs were two goals down on the night, three on aggregate, at half-time, but they re-emerged from the break with a renewed vigour, and there was belief when Moura scored their first goal of the tie after 55 minutes, adding a second four minutes later.

"We weren't able to look ourselves in the mirror if we lost 3 or 4-0," he added. "We had to fight back. In the end, we were lucky, the ball fell in the right direction and we did it!

"Today was not tactical, more fight and heart performance. And Lucas Moura! It's been a rollercoaster. I feel sorry for Ajax, I don't know if we deserved it more but we got there."

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Last edited by Enugu II on Thu May 09, 2019 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 7:59 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
I actually agree with Eriken's view below about the last second win and how lucky it was.

Quote:
Eriksen makes surprising admission after Spurs’ dramatic win over Ajax
https://www.msn.com/en-za/news/other/eriksen-makes-surprising-admission-after-spurs-dramatic-win-over-ajax/ar-AAB67yh

Christian Eriksen was admirably humble and full of praise for Ajax after Tottenham produced an incredible second-half comeback to knock out the young Dutch side, setting up an all-English final against Liverpool.

But the Danish international admitted that he thought Ajax, his former club, were better over the two legs.

Spurs were dead and buried at half-time in the second leg at the Johan Cryuff Arena as they trailed the Amsterdam 2-0 on the night and 3-0 on aggregate after goals from Matthijs De Ligt and Hakim Ziyech.

However, a miraculous comeback, spearheaded by Lucas Moura - scorer of all three goals - was completed deep into added time when the Brazilian slotted home a loose ball to spark amazing scenes in Amsterdam.

Eriksen, speaking to BT Sport a few minutes after the final whistle, said: "I think it was a ridiculous game.

"We were really far down, we fought back and Ajax played a really good game. Over the two games they played better but we were just lucky when we scored. It was a relief because we've been fighting for this and now we're in a semi-final."

Spurs were two goals down on the night, three on aggregate, at half-time, but they re-emerged from the break with a renewed vigour, and there was belief when Moura scored their first goal of the tie after 55 minutes, adding a second four minutes later.

"We weren't able to look ourselves in the mirror if we lost 3 or 4-0," he added. "We had to fight back. In the end, we were lucky, the ball fell in the right direction and we did it!

"Today was not tactical, more fight and heart performance. And Lucas Moura! It's been a rollercoaster. I feel sorry for Ajax, I don't know if we deserved it more but we got there."



Luck or desire?

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Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 8:38 pm 
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txj wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
I actually agree with Eriken's view below about the last second win and how lucky it was.

Quote:
Eriksen makes surprising admission after Spurs’ dramatic win over Ajax
https://www.msn.com/en-za/news/other/eriksen-makes-surprising-admission-after-spurs-dramatic-win-over-ajax/ar-AAB67yh

Christian Eriksen was admirably humble and full of praise for Ajax after Tottenham produced an incredible second-half comeback to knock out the young Dutch side, setting up an all-English final against Liverpool.

But the Danish international admitted that he thought Ajax, his former club, were better over the two legs.

Spurs were dead and buried at half-time in the second leg at the Johan Cryuff Arena as they trailed the Amsterdam 2-0 on the night and 3-0 on aggregate after goals from Matthijs De Ligt and Hakim Ziyech.

However, a miraculous comeback, spearheaded by Lucas Moura - scorer of all three goals - was completed deep into added time when the Brazilian slotted home a loose ball to spark amazing scenes in Amsterdam.

Eriksen, speaking to BT Sport a few minutes after the final whistle, said: "I think it was a ridiculous game.

"We were really far down, we fought back and Ajax played a really good game. Over the two games they played better but we were just lucky when we scored. It was a relief because we've been fighting for this and now we're in a semi-final."

Spurs were two goals down on the night, three on aggregate, at half-time, but they re-emerged from the break with a renewed vigour, and there was belief when Moura scored their first goal of the tie after 55 minutes, adding a second four minutes later.

"We weren't able to look ourselves in the mirror if we lost 3 or 4-0," he added. "We had to fight back. In the end, we were lucky, the ball fell in the right direction and we did it!

"Today was not tactical, more fight and heart performance. And Lucas Moura! It's been a rollercoaster. I feel sorry for Ajax, I don't know if we deserved it more but we got there."



Luck or desire?


I would say both. Watching that game, Spurs had desire particularly in the second half but there is no doubt that they also had luck considering opportunities fluffed by Ajax not just in the opening half but in second half break aways. Thus, it is not either but both. In fact, one could argue that Ajax's attempt to play by the textbook of delaying the game and not fully playing late in the game (attempting to preserve a result) may have hurt them. In another game, Spurs fail to score and the media would have praised those very game delaying tactics of Ajax.

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The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 8:59 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
txj wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
I actually agree with Eriken's view below about the last second win and how lucky it was.

Quote:
Eriksen makes surprising admission after Spurs’ dramatic win over Ajax
https://www.msn.com/en-za/news/other/eriksen-makes-surprising-admission-after-spurs-dramatic-win-over-ajax/ar-AAB67yh

Christian Eriksen was admirably humble and full of praise for Ajax after Tottenham produced an incredible second-half comeback to knock out the young Dutch side, setting up an all-English final against Liverpool.

But the Danish international admitted that he thought Ajax, his former club, were better over the two legs.

Spurs were dead and buried at half-time in the second leg at the Johan Cryuff Arena as they trailed the Amsterdam 2-0 on the night and 3-0 on aggregate after goals from Matthijs De Ligt and Hakim Ziyech.

However, a miraculous comeback, spearheaded by Lucas Moura - scorer of all three goals - was completed deep into added time when the Brazilian slotted home a loose ball to spark amazing scenes in Amsterdam.

Eriksen, speaking to BT Sport a few minutes after the final whistle, said: "I think it was a ridiculous game.

"We were really far down, we fought back and Ajax played a really good game. Over the two games they played better but we were just lucky when we scored. It was a relief because we've been fighting for this and now we're in a semi-final."

Spurs were two goals down on the night, three on aggregate, at half-time, but they re-emerged from the break with a renewed vigour, and there was belief when Moura scored their first goal of the tie after 55 minutes, adding a second four minutes later.

"We weren't able to look ourselves in the mirror if we lost 3 or 4-0," he added. "We had to fight back. In the end, we were lucky, the ball fell in the right direction and we did it!

"Today was not tactical, more fight and heart performance. And Lucas Moura! It's been a rollercoaster. I feel sorry for Ajax, I don't know if we deserved it more but we got there."



Luck or desire?


I would say both. Watching that game, Spurs had desire particularly in the second half but there is no doubt that they also had luck considering opportunities fluffed by Ajax not just in the opening half but in second half break aways. Thus, it is not either but both. In fact, one could argue that Ajax's attempt to play by the textbook of delaying the game and not fully playing late in the game (attempting to preserve a result) may have hurt them. In another game, Spurs fail to score and the media would have praised those very game delaying tactics of Ajax.



That is EXACTLY the opposite of what happened here.

If you have a 3 goal aggregate lead, its football malpractice to be playing an open a game as they were in the 2HF...

It had ZERO to do with the delay tactics, considering they barely used that anyway....

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Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:11 am 
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txj wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
txj wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
I actually agree with Eriken's view below about the last second win and how lucky it was.

Quote:
Eriksen makes surprising admission after Spurs’ dramatic win over Ajax
https://www.msn.com/en-za/news/other/eriksen-makes-surprising-admission-after-spurs-dramatic-win-over-ajax/ar-AAB67yh

Christian Eriksen was admirably humble and full of praise for Ajax after Tottenham produced an incredible second-half comeback to knock out the young Dutch side, setting up an all-English final against Liverpool.

But the Danish international admitted that he thought Ajax, his former club, were better over the two legs.

Spurs were dead and buried at half-time in the second leg at the Johan Cryuff Arena as they trailed the Amsterdam 2-0 on the night and 3-0 on aggregate after goals from Matthijs De Ligt and Hakim Ziyech.

However, a miraculous comeback, spearheaded by Lucas Moura - scorer of all three goals - was completed deep into added time when the Brazilian slotted home a loose ball to spark amazing scenes in Amsterdam.

Eriksen, speaking to BT Sport a few minutes after the final whistle, said: "I think it was a ridiculous game.

"We were really far down, we fought back and Ajax played a really good game. Over the two games they played better but we were just lucky when we scored. It was a relief because we've been fighting for this and now we're in a semi-final."

Spurs were two goals down on the night, three on aggregate, at half-time, but they re-emerged from the break with a renewed vigour, and there was belief when Moura scored their first goal of the tie after 55 minutes, adding a second four minutes later.

"We weren't able to look ourselves in the mirror if we lost 3 or 4-0," he added. "We had to fight back. In the end, we were lucky, the ball fell in the right direction and we did it!

"Today was not tactical, more fight and heart performance. And Lucas Moura! It's been a rollercoaster. I feel sorry for Ajax, I don't know if we deserved it more but we got there."



Luck or desire?


I would say both. Watching that game, Spurs had desire particularly in the second half but there is no doubt that they also had luck considering opportunities fluffed by Ajax not just in the opening half but in second half break aways. Thus, it is not either but both. In fact, one could argue that Ajax's attempt to play by the textbook of delaying the game and not fully playing late in the game (attempting to preserve a result) may have hurt them. In another game, Spurs fail to score and the media would have praised those very game delaying tactics of Ajax.



That is EXACTLY the opposite of what happened here.

If you have a 3 goal aggregate lead, its football malpractice to be playing an open a game as they were in the 2HF...

It had ZERO to do with the delay tactics, considering they barely used that anyway....


Bros, the aggregate was 3-2 when Ajax was clearly delaying the game. You must have missed attempts to hold the ball at the corner flag and you must have missed the yellow card to Onana, should I assume? Or perhaps, those were not results of attempts to delay the game and sustain the result?

_________________
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics


Last edited by Enugu II on Fri May 10, 2019 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:15 am 
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Enugu II wrote:
txj wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
txj wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
I actually agree with Eriken's view below about the last second win and how lucky it was.

Quote:
Eriksen makes surprising admission after Spurs’ dramatic win over Ajax
https://www.msn.com/en-za/news/other/eriksen-makes-surprising-admission-after-spurs-dramatic-win-over-ajax/ar-AAB67yh

Christian Eriksen was admirably humble and full of praise for Ajax after Tottenham produced an incredible second-half comeback to knock out the young Dutch side, setting up an all-English final against Liverpool.

But the Danish international admitted that he thought Ajax, his former club, were better over the two legs.

Spurs were dead and buried at half-time in the second leg at the Johan Cryuff Arena as they trailed the Amsterdam 2-0 on the night and 3-0 on aggregate after goals from Matthijs De Ligt and Hakim Ziyech.

However, a miraculous comeback, spearheaded by Lucas Moura - scorer of all three goals - was completed deep into added time when the Brazilian slotted home a loose ball to spark amazing scenes in Amsterdam.

Eriksen, speaking to BT Sport a few minutes after the final whistle, said: "I think it was a ridiculous game.

"We were really far down, we fought back and Ajax played a really good game. Over the two games they played better but we were just lucky when we scored. It was a relief because we've been fighting for this and now we're in a semi-final."

Spurs were two goals down on the night, three on aggregate, at half-time, but they re-emerged from the break with a renewed vigour, and there was belief when Moura scored their first goal of the tie after 55 minutes, adding a second four minutes later.

"We weren't able to look ourselves in the mirror if we lost 3 or 4-0," he added. "We had to fight back. In the end, we were lucky, the ball fell in the right direction and we did it!

"Today was not tactical, more fight and heart performance. And Lucas Moura! It's been a rollercoaster. I feel sorry for Ajax, I don't know if we deserved it more but we got there."



Luck or desire?


I would say both. Watching that game, Spurs had desire particularly in the second half but there is no doubt that they also had luck considering opportunities fluffed by Ajax not just in the opening half but in second half break aways. Thus, it is not either but both. In fact, one could argue that Ajax's attempt to play by the textbook of delaying the game and not fully playing late in the game (attempting to preserve a result) may have hurt them. In another game, Spurs fail to score and the media would have praised those very game delaying tactics of Ajax.



That is EXACTLY the opposite of what happened here.

If you have a 3 goal aggregate lead, its football malpractice to be playing an open a game as they were in the 2HF...

It had ZERO to do with the delay tactics, considering they barely used that anyway....


Bros, the aggregate was 3-2 when Ajax was clearly delaying the game. You must have missed attempts to hold the ball at the corner flag and you must have missed the yellow card to Onana, should I assume?


:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 12:34 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
txj wrote:
That is EXACTLY the opposite of what happened here.

If you have a 3 goal aggregate lead, its football malpractice to be playing an open a game as they were in the 2HF...

It had ZERO to do with the delay tactics, considering they barely used that anyway....


Bros, the aggregate was 3-2 when Ajax was clearly delaying the game. You must have missed attempts to hold the ball at the corner flag and you must have missed the yellow card to Onana, should I assume? Or perhaps, those were not results of attempts to delay the game and sustain the result?


No I did not miss anything. Delay tactics, like I said was BARELY used.

Onana's card, which I knew you would cite came on 95mins!

They conceded the first goal on a counter. Then the 3rd on another counter on 96mins, following Ziyech's attempt to score, with Frankie De Jong upfield and having to recover his position...

Why do you think Mourinho criticized Ten Hag; for using delay tactics???

You've gotta be kidding me!

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Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 2:50 pm 
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txj wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
txj wrote:
That is EXACTLY the opposite of what happened here.

If you have a 3 goal aggregate lead, its football malpractice to be playing an open a game as they were in the 2HF...

It had ZERO to do with the delay tactics, considering they barely used that anyway....


Bros, the aggregate was 3-2 when Ajax was clearly delaying the game. You must have missed attempts to hold the ball at the corner flag and you must have missed the yellow card to Onana, should I assume? Or perhaps, those were not results of attempts to delay the game and sustain the result?


No I did not miss anything. Delay tactics, like I said was BARELY used.

Onana's card, which I knew you would cite came on 95mins!

They conceded the first goal on a counter. Then the 3rd on another counter on 96mins, following Ziyech's attempt to score, with Frankie De Jong upfield and having to recover his position...

Why do you think Mourinho criticized Ten Hag; for using delay tactics???

You've gotta be kidding me!


And when again did Spurs score the goal that sent them through?

You have to come to grips that all outcomes in soccer are not determined by tactics. Outcomes are determined by a complex configuration of factors. Ajax did what the textbook tactics asked them to do late in the game and they still lost. BTW, they could have won if only Ziyech put away several chances from SH COUNTERS including one that hit the low post with the GK at lunch. Yet, because Spurs won in the very last moment they are now heroes for tactical superiority. Really? Eriksen affirmed what the series was like but he really did not need to. The reality is that logic should make that clear.

_________________
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics


Last edited by Enugu II on Fri May 10, 2019 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 3:02 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
txj wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
txj wrote:
That is EXACTLY the opposite of what happened here.

If you have a 3 goal aggregate lead, its football malpractice to be playing an open a game as they were in the 2HF...

It had ZERO to do with the delay tactics, considering they barely used that anyway....


Bros, the aggregate was 3-2 when Ajax was clearly delaying the game. You must have missed attempts to hold the ball at the corner flag and you must have missed the yellow card to Onana, should I assume? Or perhaps, those were not results of attempts to delay the game and sustain the result?


No I did not miss anything. Delay tactics, like I said was BARELY used.

Onana's card, which I knew you would cite came on 95mins!

They conceded the first goal on a counter. Then the 3rd on another counter on 96mins, following Ziyech's attempt to score, with Frankie De Jong upfield and having to recover his position...

Why do you think Mourinho criticized Ten Hag; for using delay tactics???

You've gotta be kidding me!


And when again did Spurs score the goal that sent them through?



Exactly my point!

Time wasting came so late in the game it was a non factor...

Rather, it was Ajax's continued commitment to play "their game". Note Mourinho's criticism about Ten Hag playing Spurs in 2HF like he was playing against Vitesse!!!

The goal they scored on 96mins, came off a counterattack, with Ajax caught up-field!!!

Here is a quote from Jose. Note that at no point does he cite time wasting as a factor.

Quote:
“The basic thing you do when you have an advantage is keep your balance all the time – never unbalanced.

“The balance starts exactly with the defensive line in position then after that a certain number of players always behind the ball line.


https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 05961.html

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Image
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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