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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:48 am 
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JACKAL wrote:
TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
JACKAL wrote:
ANC wrote:
JACKAL wrote:
ANC wrote:
JACKAL wrote:
Its a terrible Mistake not letting Chuckweze play in the U20 World cup. He needs to play with his peers and age mates and show how dominant he is.... This is the path Messi took...Maradona, Tevez and pretty much 70% of great senior level players. Going Straight to the senior Level AFCON may not really benefit him as much as the big Psychological boost he gets vs his peers.



KPOM

I subscribe to the Malcom Gladwell school... Let kids Dominate their peers and they will acquire the persona of a natural leader and and will countinue to dominate into the future.... When you put him too soon with senior players he may not respond and defer to them since they will treat him like a small boy. I don't want the bot to turn into another Henry Nwosu ...



Whats Henrys story?

Your point is well made :thumb:

But for the guys sake if does go to ANC, let him be another Owen, not another henry.

Henry Was an U-20 Player, who made the Green Eagles at the age of 18 playing cameo roles in the legendary 1980 ANC winning eagles ... Of course he was considered a prodigy, which he was... He however never quite fulfilled his full potential because many others came after him who joined the team in the their 20's, surpassed him both in Achievement and persona.

He had a good club Career with NNB, played a couple of ANC's but to me didn't produce an Okocha-like, Yekini-like or Keshi Like career. His Career fizzled out in an age where you had to be able to go to Europe to make it, a feat he was unable to achieve for all his massive talent. I felt he was a lot of promise in the beginning, he got the limelight too soon, but never really fulfilled his full potential.


I don’t know what you mean by cameo roles, having started the first two games against Tanzania and Ivory Coast. Played 90 minutes against Tanzania and was substituted for Martin Eyo against Ivory Coast. He recorded a total of 60 appearances for the senior national team between 1980 and 1991 and also featured in the 1984 and 1988 finals. By the way, he debuted at the age of 16, not 18. He may have run out of steam a little early as a result of being overused; he played numerous U20 and U23 matches and featured in the 1980 Olympic Games, scoring Nigeria’s only goal in that tournament :!:


Cheers.

I am not so sure about your information. There was no U23 Football when Henry was Active. They didn't start the U-23 till the 1992 Olympics and U23 + 3 overaged players till 1996 (Which we won) He scored 8 goals in 60 Games for the eagles.... that was not a great return for an attacking midfielder of his reputation. He was a prolific goal scorer for his Club side but couldn't replicate it for the eagles. However we both agree his career did fizzle out...and never quite fully lived up to his full potential.

That 1980 Olympics was when I discovered to my dismay that we were crap in football at the time. I was a kid who bought into the drama of our local derby's, our triumph at the African cups and then we went to meet armatures on the world stage and we couldn't beat Kuwait... KUWAIT my People !!!! :curse: :curse:


You are equating the exclusive usage of U23 players in the Olympic Games to the start of U23 football. That’s incorrect... and how can you claim that a player with 60 appearances for the senior national team did not live up to his potential? Please count the number of Nigerian internationals who played 60 games for Nigeria on one hand if you possibly can :!:


Cheers.


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:01 am 
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TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:

But for the guys sake if does go to ANC, let him be another Owen, not another henry.

Henry Was an U-20 Player, who made the Green Eagles at the age of 18 playing cameo roles in the legendary 1980 ANC winning eagles ... Of course he was considered a prodigy, which he was... He however never quite fulfilled his full potential because many others came after him who joined the team in the their 20's, surpassed him both in Achievement and persona.

He had a good club Career with NNB, played a couple of ANC's but to me didn't produce an Okocha-like, Yekini-like or Keshi Like career. His Career fizzled out in an age where you had to be able to go to Europe to make it, a feat he was unable to achieve for all his massive talent. I felt he was a lot of promise in the beginning, he got the limelight too soon, but never really fulfilled his full potential.
[/quote]

I don’t know what you mean by cameo roles, having started the first two games against Tanzania and Ivory Coast. Played 90 minutes against Tanzania and was substituted for Martin Eyo against Ivory Coast. He recorded a total of 60 appearances for the senior national team between 1980 and 1991 and also featured in the 1984 and 1988 finals. By the way, he debuted at the age of 16, not 18. He may have run out of steam a little early as a result of being overused; he played numerous U20 and U23 matches and featured in the 1980 Olympic Games, scoring Nigeria’s only goal in that tournament :!:
Cheers.[/quote]
I am not so sure about your information. There was no U23 Football when Henry was Active. They didn't start the U-23 till the 1992 Olympics and U23 + 3 overaged players till 1996 (Which we won) He scored 8 goals in 60 Games for the eagles.... that was not a great return for an attacking midfielder of his reputation. He was a prolific goal scorer for his Club side but couldn't replicate it for the eagles. However we both agree his career did fizzle out...and never quite fully lived up to his full potential.

That 1980 Olympics was when I discovered to my dismay that we were crap in football at the time. I was a kid who bought into the drama of our local derby's, our triumph at the African cups and then we went to meet armatures on the world stage and we couldn't beat Kuwait... KUWAIT my People !!!! :curse: :curse:
[/quote]

You are equating the exclusive usage of U23 players in the Olympic Games to the start of U23 football. That’s incorrect... and how can you claim that a player with 60 appearances for the senior national team did not live up to his potential? Please count the number of Nigerian internationals who played 60 games for Nigeria on one hand if you possibly can :!:
Cheers.[/quote]

Why would there be a need for an age category team if there is no competition for them to go to ? The only U-23 Tournament in the world at the time was the Olympic games football. They carved out that category so the Olympics wouldn't compete with the world cup. There was no U23 team before the 1992 Olympics Period.

Are there U27 teams today ?? ...not as far as I know...why ? Because there is no world recognized U27 Tournament.


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:19 am 
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If my memory serves me correct, Olympic soccer wasn't always age-restricted.
It is quite possible our early Olympic soccer teams in Africa were full national teams because we were seen as 'amateurs' i.e. not professional footballers.
I may be wrong and too lazy to G :sleep: :sleep: GLE at 1 o'clock in the morning.

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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 2:05 am 
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Damunk wrote:
If my memory serves me correct, Olympic soccer wasn't always age-restricted.
It is quite possible our early Olympic soccer teams in Africa were full national teams because we were seen as 'amateurs' i.e. not professional footballers.
I may be wrong and too lazy to G :sleep: :sleep: GLE at 1 o'clock in the morning.


Damunk,

You are correct. The Olympics, for African teams, involved the full national team until 1992. Actually, this is one of my criticism of FIFA's rules that Olympics Games of that time should not be counted as full NT appearances. A rather rubbish rule by FIFA when it concerns African teams in games against each other.

In any case, the JACKAL's analysis about Nigeria's performance at the 1980 Olympics lacks context. The reality is that the team that went to that Olympics was a shadow of the team that just won the AFCON a few months before. The Olympic squad was a team being developed following Chukwu's retirement. Remember Chukwu was voted Best Player at the AFCON. Odegbami who was the top scorer for Nigeria went to the Olympics with a major leg injury but played in the Czech game with a heavily bandaged leg, as I recall. Isima who started at AFCON was injured just 18 minutes into the opening game at the Olympics. In that opening game, Gloria played Okpala ahead of the AFCON starter Adiele, Kadiri ahead of AFCON starter Aloysius Atuegbu, Shefiu Mohammed started with Odegbami absent. In essence, it was a different team. In the second game, they drew 1-1 with a tough Czech team that had most of its NT players (East European teams used Nt players for the Olympics as they were designated amateurs as well). The Czech team saw an injured Odegbami back on the field, Adiele and Atuegbu returned as starters as well and Nwosu started also.

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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 2:21 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
Damunk wrote:
If my memory serves me correct, Olympic soccer wasn't always age-restricted.
It is quite possible our early Olympic soccer teams in Africa were full national teams because we were seen as 'amateurs' i.e. not professional footballers.
I may be wrong and too lazy to G :sleep: :sleep: GLE at 1 o'clock in the morning.


Damunk,

You are correct. The Olympics, for African teams, involved the full national team until 1992. Actually, this is one of my criticism of FIFA's rules that Olympics Games of that time should not be counted as full NT appearances. A rather rubbish rule by FIFA when it concerns African teams in games against each other.

In any case, the JACKAL's analysis about Nigeria's performance at the 1980 Olympics lacks context. The reality is that the team that went to that Olympics was a shadow of the team that just won the AFCON a few months before. The Olympic squad was a team being developed following Chukwu's retirement. Remember Chukwu was voted Best Player at the AFCON. Odegbami who was the top scorer for Nigeria went to the Olympics with a major leg injury but played in the Czech game with a heavily bandaged leg, as I recall. Isima who started at AFCON was injured just 18 minutes into the opening game at the Olympics. In that opening game, Gloria played Okpala ahead of the AFCON starter Adiele, Kadiri ahead of AFCON starter Aloysius Atuegbu, Shefiu Mohammed started with Odegbami absent. In essence, it was a different team. In the second game, they drew 1-1 with a tough Czech team that had most of its NT players (East European teams used Nt players for the Olympics as they were designated amateurs as well). The Czech team saw an injured Odegbami back on the field, Adiele and Atuegbu returned as starters as well and Nwosu started also.

EII,

Context or not...we sucked ! If you look back at it, we had no international experience.. That may actually have been the first time we played in a world recognized international competition. I have read some of Odegbamis writings over the years and he said when they would go out on international training camp before major tournaments like the ANC... They could only get 3rd division teams or local coal mining teams to play them. The pro teams in Brazil or Europe wouldn't play them. When they managed to get local pro teams to play them.. we got hammered big time.

We were poor, very poor back then..we just didn't know it because we were playing locally and we couldn't really tell how wide the gap was between us and the elite soccer world at that time since we didn't play them ever.


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 3:58 pm 
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JACKAL wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Damunk wrote:
If my memory serves me correct, Olympic soccer wasn't always age-restricted.
It is quite possible our early Olympic soccer teams in Africa were full national teams because we were seen as 'amateurs' i.e. not professional footballers.
I may be wrong and too lazy to G :sleep: :sleep: GLE at 1 o'clock in the morning.


Damunk,

You are correct. The Olympics, for African teams, involved the full national team until 1992. Actually, this is one of my criticism of FIFA's rules that Olympics Games of that time should not be counted as full NT appearances. A rather rubbish rule by FIFA when it concerns African teams in games against each other.

In any case, the JACKAL's analysis about Nigeria's performance at the 1980 Olympics lacks context. The reality is that the team that went to that Olympics was a shadow of the team that just won the AFCON a few months before. The Olympic squad was a team being developed following Chukwu's retirement. Remember Chukwu was voted Best Player at the AFCON. Odegbami who was the top scorer for Nigeria went to the Olympics with a major leg injury but played in the Czech game with a heavily bandaged leg, as I recall. Isima who started at AFCON was injured just 18 minutes into the opening game at the Olympics. In that opening game, Gloria played Okpala ahead of the AFCON starter Adiele, Kadiri ahead of AFCON starter Aloysius Atuegbu, Shefiu Mohammed started with Odegbami absent. In essence, it was a different team. In the second game, they drew 1-1 with a tough Czech team that had most of its NT players (East European teams used Nt players for the Olympics as they were designated amateurs as well). The Czech team saw an injured Odegbami back on the field, Adiele and Atuegbu returned as starters as well and Nwosu started also.

EII,

Context or not...we sucked ! If you look back at it, we had no international experience.. That may actually have been the first time we played in a world recognized international competition. I have read some of Odegbamis writings over the years and he said when they would go out on international training camp before major tournaments like the ANC... They could only get 3rd division teams or local coal mining teams to play them. The pro teams in Brazil or Europe wouldn't play them. When they managed to get local pro teams to play them.. we got hammered big time.

We were poor, very poor back then..we just didn't know it because we were playing locally and we couldn't really tell how wide the gap was between us and the elite soccer world at that time since we didn't play them ever.


JACKAL,

There is no denying the fact that we were not experienced, internationally, back then. I agree on that point and in my view we only improved in that regard when we began to have many players migrate bio play professionally overseas. That migration and constant competition with top players in Europe improved their psychological preparation, confidence, as well as in other areas. The results indicate that. Thus, I do not think that many will argue against your point on the overall standard then. However, the state of the team to that 1980 Olympics was very poor even by the standards of those days.

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The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 4:04 pm 
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His peers are the grown men and world class defenders like Varane, Godin, Pique, Alba etc that he faces every week in La Liga.

JACKAL wrote:
Its a terrible Mistake not letting Chuckweze play in the U20 World cup. He needs to play with his peers and age mates and show how dominant he is.... This is the path Messi took...Maradona, Tevez and pretty much 70% of great senior level players. Going Straight to the senior Level AFCON may not really benefit him as much as the big Psychological boost he gets vs his peers.


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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 10:16 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
osita wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
john12 wrote:
On current form this season based on league rankings/ performance he is our best WINGER but ROhR is a loyal person. Therefore, I won’t be surprised seeing chukwueze omitted for MOSES SIMON (sad) if that happens.


Chukwueze will make the AFCON team as a wide midfield player. Simon or Kalu will be the other wide player on the left while the other makes it as a wingback. Ebuehi will not be in the team. Furthermore, Musa will be counted as a striker and not a wide player. Do the math.


Have you really see the team that qualified for AFCON? Chukwueze is competing with Kalu, simon, Oyekuru and Musa
while the strikers are Igahlo, Osihem & paul ouachu

Chukwueze may not make the team as those who played together and qualified the team will be hard to be dropped by Rohr.

Osita

Let's leave that until 23 is named. If he is among 26 invited he will be there. The mistake you make is ignoring the versatility of Kalu and Musa. That is what opens up space for Chukwueze.



Part 1 fulfilled. :clap: :clap:

Stay tuned for part 2.

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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 10:34 pm 
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Bullet dodged.

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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 10:45 pm 
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Good decision.

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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 11:15 pm 
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Kai stock for don drop!!!

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