Chris HUGHTON Sacked (Leon BALOGUN!!

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Re: Chris HUGHTON Sacked (Leon BALOGUN!!

Post by tfco »

cic old boy wrote:
tfco wrote:
winning 2 games from the last 20 is not what the board expected
That looks like Ole's record and he kept his job.
but.it.was.not.

let's bring Ole into the mix when he's had a full season with 2 wins out of 20

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Re: Chris HUGHTON Sacked (Leon BALOGUN!!

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tfco wrote:
but.it.was.not.

let's bring Ole into the mix when he's had a full season with 2 wins out of 20
So he was judged on the last 20 games and not on saving them from relegation to League One, getting them promoted, keeping them up two seasons in a row and reaching an FA Cup semi. OK.
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Re: Chris HUGHTON Sacked (Leon BALOGUN!!

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cic old boy wrote:
tfco wrote:
but.it.was.not.

let's bring Ole into the mix when he's had a full season with 2 wins out of 20
So he was judged on the last 20 games and not on saving them from relegation to League One, getting them promoted, keeping them up two seasons in a row and reaching an FA Cup semi. OK.
this is top flight football

things were getting worse. He's been with BHA longer than 6 months

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Re: Chris HUGHTON Sacked (Leon BALOGUN!!

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tfco wrote: this is top flight football

things were getting worse. He's been with BHA longer than 6 months
Good cup run + staying up in the top flight. Let's see if they get more next season - like relegation.
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Re: Chris HUGHTON Sacked (Leon BALOGUN!!

Post by Coach »

@CIC, same way Oga Mourinho was not judged on the Europa league and Polystyrene cup, but the here and now. Garbage deserves no more than a black bag, tied at the neck and perfectly positioned on the sidewalk for collection. #americanisms
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Re: Chris HUGHTON Sacked (Leon BALOGUN!!

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cic old boy wrote:
tfco wrote:
but.it.was.not.

let's bring Ole into the mix when he's had a full season with 2 wins out of 20
So he was judged on the last 20 games and not on saving them from relegation to League One, getting them promoted, keeping them up two seasons in a row and reaching an FA Cup semi. OK.
CIC, I think you're being unfair to BHA. I feel the pain of losing the only black manager in the EPL but like I said earlier, if he was white this wouldn't be an issue. BHA might get relegated next season but as it stands, their hope and ambition is not to be in a dog fight next season. They probably feel Chris has taken them as far as he could. They need a change of direction
Leicester fired a title winning coach. So did Chelsea and Man U fired Maureen who won Europa. This is the EPL.
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Re: Chris HUGHTON Sacked (Leon BALOGUN!!

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Coach wrote:@CIC, same way Oga Mourinho was not judged on the Europa league and Polystyrene cup, but the here and now. Garbage deserves no more than a black bag, tied at the neck and perfectly positioned on the sidewalk for collection. #americanisms
Manure expected to compete for the EPL and CL. Brighton expected to play in the EPL. Borinho didn't deliver on expectations. Hughton did.
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Re: Chris HUGHTON Sacked (Leon BALOGUN!!

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pajimoh wrote: CIC, I think you're being unfair to BHA. I feel the pain of losing the only black manager in the EPL but like I said earlier, if he was white this wouldn't be an issue. BHA might get relegated next season but as it stands, their hope and ambition is not to be in a dog fight next season. They probably feel Chris has taken them as far as he could. They need a change of direction
Leicester fired a title winning coach. So did Chelsea and Man U fired Maureen who won Europa. This is the EPL.
Wolves have a black manager. There was a big outcry when Leicester fired Ranieri. Even Borinho chose to wear a Ranieri shirt at the time.
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Re: Chris HUGHTON Sacked (Leon BALOGUN!!

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cic old boy wrote:
pajimoh wrote: CIC, I think you're being unfair to BHA. I feel the pain of losing the only black manager in the EPL but like I said earlier, if he was white this wouldn't be an issue. BHA might get relegated next season but as it stands, their hope and ambition is not to be in a dog fight next season. They probably feel Chris has taken them as far as he could. They need a change of direction
Leicester fired a title winning coach. So did Chelsea and Man U fired Maureen who won Europa. This is the EPL.
Wolves have a black manager. There was a big outcry when Leicester fired Ranieri. Even Borinho chose to wear a Ranieri shirt at the time.
There's always a big outcry. That is my point. Clubs take harsh decisions to maintain their EPL status. Past achievements counts for very little when 10s of millions is at stake. Chris just tasted this harsh reality but I don't think it's racism
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Re: Chris HUGHTON Sacked (Leon BALOGUN!!

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pajimoh wrote: There's always a big outcry. That is my point. Clubs take harsh decisions to maintain their EPL status. Past achievements counts for very little when 10s of millions is at stake. Chris just tasted this harsh reality but I don't think it's racism
Racism means blacks are usually last to be hired and first to be fired. Pointing at others doesn't mean race wasn't a factor in this case, esp where there has been a pattern of behaviour. Nobody would claim racism if he was fired after they were relegated. Nobody would argue if he took a mid-table club like Everton to the brink of relegation. Brighton's best striker is nearly 40. They are where they should be.
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Re: Chris HUGHTON Sacked (Leon BALOGUN!!

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cic old boy wrote:
pajimoh wrote: There's always a big outcry. That is my point. Clubs take harsh decisions to maintain their EPL status. Past achievements counts for very little when 10s of millions is at stake. Chris just tasted this harsh reality but I don't think it's racism
Racism means blacks are usually last to be hired and first to be fired. Pointing at others doesn't mean race wasn't a factor in this case, esp where there has been a pattern of behaviour. Nobody would claim racism if he was fired after they were relegated. Nobody would argue if he took a mid-table club like Everton to the brink of relegation. Brighton's best striker is nearly 40. They are where they should be.
I don't doubt racism exists but the danger of claiming racism every time a black coach gets fired is not helpful to hiring of black coaches.

I used Ranieri as an example for a reason and many more like him. But Ranieri took an fancied team to the EPL title. A perennial mid table team. The following season or so, he was sacked. They were not in relegation zone and the season wasn't even half way.
Leicester had tasted success and their expectations were high. Now substitute Chris for Ranieri. Had that been Chris that was fired by Leicester after winning the EPL, we would have been screaming racism as well.
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Re: Chris HUGHTON Sacked (Leon BALOGUN!!

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pajimoh wrote: I don't doubt racism exists but the danger of claiming racism every time a black coach gets fired is not helpful to hiring of black coaches.

I used Ranieri as an example for a reason and many more like him. But Ranieri took an fancied team to the EPL title. A perennial mid table team. The following season or so, he was sacked. They were not in relegation zone and the season wasn't even half way.
Leicester had tasted success and their expectations were high. Now substitute Chris for Ranieri. Had that been Chris that was fired by Leicester after winning the EPL, we would have been screaming racism as well.
The danger here is your lack of understanding of how racism works and not even reading what you are responding to. I said if Hughton was coaching a mid-table club and had them flirting with relegation, few would complain if he got sacked. I said if he got Brighton relegated, there'd be few complaints either. You then respond with "claiming racism every time". After I gave you examples of times when a racism claim wouldn't stand up!

Stop your Ranieri nonsense. For every time a black person has been discriminated against, there was a white person that faced something similar. It doesn't make the black person's case less valid. Many people are treated poorly regardless of colour. Racism is when that treatment is b/c of colour. You don't argue against discrimination by saying others were treated poorly too. Ranieri won the league and got sacked b/c expectations were high. Brighton didn't win any league. Hughton took them to an FA Cup semi and kept them up. They don't have the resources of Leicester either, backed by a Thai billionaire.
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Re: Chris HUGHTON Sacked (Leon BALOGUN!!

Post by Enugu II »

cic old boy wrote:
pajimoh wrote: I don't doubt racism exists but the danger of claiming racism every time a black coach gets fired is not helpful to hiring of black coaches.

I used Ranieri as an example for a reason and many more like him. But Ranieri took an fancied team to the EPL title. A perennial mid table team. The following season or so, he was sacked. They were not in relegation zone and the season wasn't even half way.
Leicester had tasted success and their expectations were high. Now substitute Chris for Ranieri. Had that been Chris that was fired by Leicester after winning the EPL, we would have been screaming racism as well.
The danger here is your lack of understanding of how racism works and not even reading what you are responding to. I said if Hughton was coaching a mid-table club and had them flirting with relegation, few would complain if he got sacked. I said if he got Brighton relegated, there'd be few complaints either. You then respond with "claiming racism every time". After I gave you examples of times when a racism claim wouldn't stand up!

Stop your Ranieri nonsense. For every time a black person has been discriminated against, there was a white person that faced something similar. It doesn't make the black person's case less valid. Many people are treated poorly regardless of colour. Racism is when that treatment is b/c of colour. You don't argue against discrimination by saying others were treated poorly too. Ranieri won the league and got sacked b/c expectations were high. Brighton didn't win any league. Hughton took them to an FA Cup semi and kept them up. They don't have the resources of Leicester either, backed by a Thai billionaire.
cic old boy,

Thank you. I cringe when racism is discussed because it is misunderstood. For instance, a guy who is racist may still have black friends. That does not mean that he cannot be racist. Those friends may merely indicate tokenism. White coaches, fired quickly once in a while, does not mean that firing Black coaches in such manner does not indicate racism. It is like claiming that when the South African country clubs increased membership fees to deny Black members that it was not racism. Yet, a few Blacks still qualified for that membership. The reality is that today's racism is far more subtle and far more disguised. Think in terms of proportionality to unmask the disguise.
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Re: Chris HUGHTON Sacked (Leon BALOGUN!!

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Enugu II wrote:
cic old boy wrote:
pajimoh wrote: I don't doubt racism exists but the danger of claiming racism every time a black coach gets fired is not helpful to hiring of black coaches.

I used Ranieri as an example for a reason and many more like him. But Ranieri took an fancied team to the EPL title. A perennial mid table team. The following season or so, he was sacked. They were not in relegation zone and the season wasn't even half way.
Leicester had tasted success and their expectations were high. Now substitute Chris for Ranieri. Had that been Chris that was fired by Leicester after winning the EPL, we would have been screaming racism as well.
The danger here is your lack of understanding of how racism works and not even reading what you are responding to. I said if Hughton was coaching a mid-table club and had them flirting with relegation, few would complain if he got sacked. I said if he got Brighton relegated, there'd be few complaints either. You then respond with "claiming racism every time". After I gave you examples of times when a racism claim wouldn't stand up!

Stop your Ranieri nonsense. For every time a black person has been discriminated against, there was a white person that faced something similar. It doesn't make the black person's case less valid. Many people are treated poorly regardless of colour. Racism is when that treatment is b/c of colour. You don't argue against discrimination by saying others were treated poorly too. Ranieri won the league and got sacked b/c expectations were high. Brighton didn't win any league. Hughton took them to an FA Cup semi and kept them up. They don't have the resources of Leicester either, backed by a Thai billionaire.
cic old boy,

Thank you. I cringe when racism is discussed because it is misunderstood. For instance, a guy who is racist may still have black friends. That does not mean that he cannot be racist. Those friends may merely indicate tokenism. White coaches, fired quickly once in a while, does not mean that firing Black coaches in such manner does not indicate racism. It is like claiming that when the South African country clubs increased membership fees to deny Black members that it was not racism. Yet, a few Blacks still qualified for that membership. The reality is that today's racism is far more subtle and far more disguised. Think in terms of proportionality to unmask the disguise.
I've experienced racism in the UK and I know how it works. Born, bred, schooled and worked in the City. So I know. I've also been following football long ago, since the 70's. Racism exists.
I really don't know how you guys can say because he brought them up and stayed 2 seasons and they sacked him it's definitely racism

The question non of you have been able to answer is what has happened to other white managers in the past
Is Chris's situation unique? Haven't other managers who brought teams from the lower league been sacked?
Everything that happens to a black man in football is not always racism and everything that happens to a white man is not always favouritism
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Re: Chris HUGHTON Sacked (Leon BALOGUN!!

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Indeed Hughton bagged Brighton another season in the big time, but sailed too close to the wind. Can a performance review conclude “progress has been made”?. Big C took there as far as he could and had to bite the bullet with molar and premolar.
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Re: Chris HUGHTON Sacked (Leon BALOGUN!!

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Coach wrote:Indeed Hughton bagged Brighton another season in the big time, but sailed too close to the wind. Can a performance review conclude “progress has been made”?. Big C took there as far as he could and had to bite the bullet with molar and premolar.
This is what some don't understand. Very few managers, white or black have longevity with a single club. It's a "revolving door" job. Chris lasted about 5 years with Brighton.
It's not a clear case of racism in my honest opinion so I can't agree for the sake of towing popular opinion
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Re: Chris HUGHTON Sacked (Leon BALOGUN!!

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Coach wrote:Indeed Hughton bagged Brighton another season in the big time, but sailed too close to the wind. Can a performance review conclude “progress has been made”?. Big C took there as far as he could and had to bite the bullet with molar and premolar.
This is what some don't understand. Very few managers, white or black have longevity with a single club. It's a "revolving door" job. Chris lasted about 5 years with Brighton.
It's not a clear case of racism in my honest opinion so I can't agree for the sake of towing popular opinion
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Re: Chris HUGHTON Sacked (Leon BALOGUN!!

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Pa Jimoh, you refuse to get it. Nobody is saying it is definitely racism. But it stinks of racism! For a club like Brighton, staying in the EPL is an achievement. An FA Cup semi is a massive bonus. This is why Hughton's sacking came as a surprise and the club had to do it sneakily. It is also not the first time he has been sacked for no clear reason after saving a club. It is also very unlikely that a white manager in a similar situation would be sacked.
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Re: Chris HUGHTON Sacked (Leon BALOGUN!!

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Enugu II wrote:
cic old boy,

Thank you. I cringe when racism is discussed because it is misunderstood. For instance, a guy who is racist may still have black friends. That does not mean that he cannot be racist. Those friends may merely indicate tokenism. White coaches, fired quickly once in a while, does not mean that firing Black coaches in such manner does not indicate racism. It is like claiming that when the South African country clubs increased membership fees to deny Black members that it was not racism. Yet, a few Blacks still qualified for that membership. The reality is that today's racism is far more subtle and far more disguised. Think in terms of proportionality to unmask the disguise.
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Re: Chris HUGHTON Sacked (Leon BALOGUN!!

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Had there been a few more rounds left of the season, Brighton would’ve certainly pulled the plug, Houghton had overseen relegation form and seemed incapable of stopping the rot. Had the players downed tools? Had his methods breached their use-by date? One cannot deny the fact that Brighton were woeful for the second-half of the season. If anything, they were worse than last year. Hughton had to go, he knew it himself, there was nothing more he could do.
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Re: Chris HUGHTON Sacked (Leon BALOGUN!!

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@pajimoh Remember when Moyes almost relegated Everton. They didn't fire him. Now Brighton has gone after Potter. It is not as if Potter won the Championship or even qualified for the playoffs. They sacked Hughton who has kept them from relegation twice in a row and went for an unproven manager in the EPL. Oh well.
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Re: Chris HUGHTON Sacked (Leon BALOGUN!!

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@Cris, Hughton was sacked for want of a fresh start. Do they stick with a man clearly struggling, or give a new man a full transfer window and preseason.
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Re: Chris HUGHTON Sacked (Leon BALOGUN!!

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Coach wrote:@Cris, Hughton was sacked for want of a fresh start. Do they stick with a man clearly struggling, or give a new man a full transfer window and preseason.
This is Brighton. They need consolidation before going for the jugular. They are not Leicester, Wolves, Burnley ... They have no experience at this level.
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