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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:12 am 
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mcal wrote:
Odas wrote:
King Futcha wrote:
damn these Mali kids are good at taking free kicks.

I watched them (Mali) today beat Argentina and I must admit they are very good. I like their fighting - don't give-up - spirit. They are worthy African champions, indeed.
...I love that Mali beat the Argies, and the all black Ecuador beat Uruguay.
Both the Argies and Uruguay don't like black teams beating them.
Remember Louis Suarez handball antics at 2010 wc vs Ghana, one of their players did the same yesterday vs Ecuador got red card and a penalty.


VAR will make players like Suarez obsolete. Even Maradona's supposed "hand" goal in 1986 will likely not have counted in this VAR era.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:59 am 
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txj wrote:
Gotti wrote:
Ekorian wrote:
France actually outplayed the US but football is a cruel game of chances!

Same as Nigeria “outplaying” Senegal?
Football comes down to taking your chances.

Give it up bro...we suck and we cheat...

Fortunately, we all don’t your inferiority complex nor self-hatred... :lol:
So I will refer you to FIFA (an independent third-party) “performance” stats.

https://www.fifa.com/u20worldcup/matche ... statistics

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:02 am 
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wale1974 wrote:
Gotti wrote:
Ekorian wrote:
France actually outplayed the US but football is a cruel game of chances!

Same as Nigeria “outplaying” Senegal?
Football comes down to taking your chances.

Say what?

The Flying Eagles ran circles around Senegal (outside the last 3d) in the 2H...
But to me it’s as substantively MEANINGLESS as France’s so long as each LOST!
>

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:09 am 
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Enugu II wrote:
Txj,

PaJ is only joking, I believe. If he watched the games, it was as day and night (the difference) in quality. The French team would probably have annihilated the U20 team that we presented at this tournament.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda... :lol:
The REALITY is that we are both headed home at the same stage.

The same Mali team that we played half-field at U20 AFCON...
Ran the Argentines into the ground and ultimately sent them home.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:27 pm 
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green4life wrote:
Congrats to USA. They were out played the entire game but maintained their discipline and self belief and eventually it paid off. Good preparations puts you in position to squeeze out results even against all odds.

@Prof E2, the USA men’s team is on the brink but not quite there only because their best athletes are still lost to football, basketball and baseball. Eventually they can get there but it will still be difficulty for that reason. Compare to their women’s team where their best athletes opt for soccer before any other sport: hence they are always top 3 in the world. Just my gut.


Green, I have had you repeat this 2nd paragraph assertion several times and I often ask myself how “best athlete” are determined? Endurance? Perseverance? Tactical nohow? Coaching? Success? Growth? Intelligence? Emotional intelligence?
I will like your input on this, as you are involved in sports agency and immersed in talents discovery. My 20+ years observation of sporting talents growth and development in US from elementary school to college grade makes me seriously doubt this assertion, especially having seeing my kids and friends kids progress through this system.

If we judged “best athlete” in terms of intelligence, emotional and otherwise, you will agree with me that the best athlete in that term in High School are mostly in cross country and long distance. Majority of them end up in Ivy League and took to professional sports. Very few like our very own UConn graduate, Emeka Okafor, end up in professional sports.

If we use endurance and perseverance, the kids referenced above will score highest again and of course the habits you develop at age grade will translate and sustain you through professional levels. What begins to make the difference at college level, as we are discovering with upper middle class kids is the investment the parents make outside of the school parameters, hence most of the top athletes in US and Brazil in the last couple of years came from upper middle class kids.

If it comes down to sustained growth and development, best athlete, are often the ones with poor grades as they focus on one sport to the detriment of everything else including their education. This is the way Most kids in lower rung end up as top athlete. They hone their skills and endurance at YMCA gyms and BigBrothers and Sisters all over US whilst their counterparts are in class studying. They don’t care much about education as their recruiters will take care of that.

If your thesis is right, how come US do well in Olympic sports like wrestling, boxing etc, all,of which are not traditional big sports? I got more to stay, but I am on my way to Baltimore from my perch in the west so will respond at the next airport.

Like you I am basing my analysis on my gut and observations

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:42 pm 
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Gotti wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Txj,

PaJ is only joking, I believe. If he watched the games, it was as day and night (the difference) in quality. The French team would probably have annihilated the U20 team that we presented at this tournament.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda... :lol:
The REALITY is that we are both headed home at the same stage.

The same Mali team that we played half-field at U20 AFCON...
Ran the Argentines into the ground and ultimately sent them home.


Gotti,

Perhaps, you believe the Nigerian team was all that. Unfortunately, many of us do not. I have watched the Nigerian U20 teams for years and certainly this is one of the worst that I have watched. The domination that you mentioned made me wonder if there are points allocated for possession and whether the moments of "domination" could occur when both teams were psychologically playing to score or when the other team was more likely playing to protect. That context does matter in football. Sure, talking about coulda or shoulda or whatever is not reality because both teams did not face each other but certainly I can predict what I believe would have occurred after having the opportunity to watch the teams in this competition. Perhaps, your shoulda could have predicted Nigeria annihilating the French U20. More power to that belief but it is certainly not mine.

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The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:32 am 
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Enugu II wrote:
Gotti,

Perhaps, you believe the Nigerian team was all that. Unfortunately, many of us do not. I have watched the Nigerian U20 teams for years and certainly this is one of the worst that I have watched. The domination that you mentioned made me wonder if there are points allocated for possession and whether the moments of "domination" could occur when both teams were psychologically playing to score or when the other team was more likely playing to protect. That context does matter in football. Sure, talking about coulda or shoulda or whatever is not reality because both teams did not face each other but certainly I can predict what I believe would have occurred after having the opportunity to watch the teams in this competition. Perhaps, your shoulda could have predicted Nigeria annihilating the French U20. More power to that belief but it is certainly not mine.

No need to get your panties in a twist Prof... :lol:

Your post was SPECULATIVE AND CONJECTURAL and was called out. No need to childishly and churlishly conflate issues, as I was one of the very first to question (REPEATEDLY AND CONSISTENTLY, going all the way back to the U20 WAFU and U20 AFCON) the quality of this U20 squad, so feel free to miss me with that drivel about "all that". Nonetheless, pretty sure there were pundits (including the announcers during the game) who thought Argentina would easily get past the Malians, as well as even those who believed the French would "annihilate" the US team. Abegi, let's leave the realm of fantasy and speculation and return to the reality of what actually happened. Thanks in advance.
>

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Last edited by Gotti on Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:35 am 
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Enugu II wrote:
Gotti,

Perhaps, you believe the Nigerian team was all that. Unfortunately, many of us do not. I have watched the Nigerian U20 teams for years and certainly this is one of the worst that I have watched. The domination that you mentioned made me wonder if there are points allocated for possession and whether the moments of "domination" could occur when both teams were psychologically playing to score or when the other team was more likely playing to protect. That context does matter in football. Sure, talking about coulda or shoulda or whatever is not reality because both teams did not face each other but certainly I can predict what I believe would have occurred after having the opportunity to watch the teams in this competition. Perhaps, your shoulda could have predicted Nigeria annihilating the French U20. More power to that belief but it is certainly not mine.

You mean like when the Qataris were "protecting" their 0-4 deficit?! :lol:
>

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:29 am 
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Gotti wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Gotti,

Perhaps, you believe the Nigerian team was all that. Unfortunately, many of us do not. I have watched the Nigerian U20 teams for years and certainly this is one of the worst that I have watched. The domination that you mentioned made me wonder if there are points allocated for possession and whether the moments of "domination" could occur when both teams were psychologically playing to score or when the other team was more likely playing to protect. That context does matter in football. Sure, talking about coulda or shoulda or whatever is not reality because both teams did not face each other but certainly I can predict what I believe would have occurred after having the opportunity to watch the teams in this competition. Perhaps, your shoulda could have predicted Nigeria annihilating the French U20. More power to that belief but it is certainly not mine.

No need to get your panties in a twist Prof... :lol:

Your post was SPECULATIVE AND CONJECTURAL and was called out. No need to childishly and churlishly conflate issues, as I was one of the very first to question (REPEATEDLY AND CONSISTENTLY, going all the way back to the U20 WAFU and U20 AFCON) the quality of this U20 squad, so feel free to miss me with that drivel about "all that". Nonetheless, pretty sure there were pundits (including the announcers during the game) who thought Argentina would easily get past the Malians, as well as even those who believed the French would "annihilate" the US team. Abegi, let's leave the realm of fantasy and speculation and return to the reality of what actually happened. Thanks in advance.
>


Gotti,

Unfortunately, your post does not deal with reality, either. The reality is not just possession but context of possession. A deeper observation is what drives one closer to reality and not merely citing percentage of possession without contextualizing it. Merely citing the percentages simply provides you with a frame requiring a deeper understanding of what is being framed and how the frame was derived. Perhaps, even more.

It is absurd to cite the Qatar game. One wonders why you did not choose the USA game? I know, shouldn't I?

The fact that you may have consistently called the team out, TBH is not of particular interest to me. There are many that did.

Nonetheless, I certainly can speculate (as many do) about several things and not just football. Certainly, I realize the difference between speculation and discussing reality and will make the choice to do one or the other at my choosing.

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The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:20 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
Gotti,

Unfortunately, your post does not deal with reality, either. The reality is not just possession but context of possession. A deeper observation is what drives one closer to reality and not merely citing percentage of possession without contextualizing it. Merely citing the percentages simply provides you with a frame requiring a deeper understanding of what is being framed and how the frame was derived. Perhaps, even more.

It is absurd to cite the Qatar game. One wonders why you did not choose the USA game? I know, shouldn't I?

The fact that you may have consistently called the team out, TBH is not of particular interest to me. There are many that did.

Nonetheless, I certainly can speculate (as many do) about several things and not just football. Certainly, I realize the difference between speculation and discussing reality and will make the choice to do one or the other at my choosing.

You blather on about “context” and yet fail to grasp the basic context that the reason I made the statement was because you apparently pulled out from your sitter that I thought the team was “all that”! SMH

And speaking of “the USA”, one supposes by your tortured turn of logic the USA did not actually play well against Ukraine and Ecuador because they were merely chasing a deficit while those teams sat back “protecting” their respective leads. LMBAO!

Anyway, you are free to proceed with your “coulda, woulda, shoulda” fantasies and hypotheses (one presumes it’s the nature of your profession), but the unvarnished FACTS are that Nigeria, France and now the USA will be watching the rest of the proceedings from the comfort of their respective couches.
>

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