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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:36 pm 
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... and we should be doing better than our coach makes you think
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In terms of player value, we are ranked 19th in the world. Keep in mind that African players are undervalued as it is.

Without a coach, we should be beating teams ranked lower and a good coach should make us compete like a top 10 side.

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Last edited by niyi on Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:40 pm 
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It depends on what kind of quality you mean. They are fast, and generally smart. But technically, they are pretty deficient. Their ball control and first touches, for instance, is less than what we need to really get beyond the levels we've reached in world football.

For me, this is the key to getting to the next level.

I don't think Rohr is a perfect coach, but I do believe that by and large, he has maximized the talent available...by and large

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:44 pm 
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deanotito wrote:
It depends on what kind of quality you mean. They are fast, and generally smart. But technically, they are pretty deficient. Their ball control and first touches, for instance, is less than what we need to really get beyond the levels we've reached in world football.

For me, this is the key to getting to the next level.

I don't think Rohr is a perfect coach, but I do believe that by and large, he has maximized the talent available...by and large


This is a shitty argument sorry...

I can give you that we have an unbalanced team but our players are technical enough to be as valuable as they are

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:52 pm 
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niyi wrote:
deanotito wrote:
It depends on what kind of quality you mean. They are fast, and generally smart. But technically, they are pretty deficient. Their ball control and first touches, for instance, is less than what we need to really get beyond the levels we've reached in world football.

For me, this is the key to getting to the next level.

I don't think Rohr is a perfect coach, but I do believe that by and large, he has maximized the talent available...by and large


This is a shitty argument sorry...

I can give you that we have an unbalanced team but our players are technical enough to be as valuable as they are


I don't know what you mean by valuable. If its just price they can command on the world stage, that's irrelevant...unless of course you're telling me they're number 1.

What I'm talking about is this...in the last 5 WCs we've been to, we've been eliminated in the 1st or 2nd round....If FIFA was to rank all the teams in those WCs, we'd probably be in the 20-30th spots, depending on the WC. You're now telling me that we're 19th in the World based on monetary value....but again, how does that get us beyond the 2nd round? You do know that only 16 teams make the 2nd round, and only 8 make the quarters? So we're 19th....we've probably been 19th for 25 years.

It doesn't. We lack elite skills, and ball control is a biggie. In the time you're taking to control a ball, the opposition has crowded you out and eliminated your outlet options. I saw this time and again with Ighalo at the last WC.

I love Victor Osimhen. I love Wilfred Ndidi. I think they're awesome. But they cannot do beyond their skillset.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:02 pm 
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You don't know what I mean by value even though my post is predicated on numbers?

I'm not in the business of speculation and guess work... you need to show me our players have more bad touches than Algerian players on average... no use for long epistles really.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:15 pm 
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Honestly all these rants about our players not been world class enough, or not getting the basics of football done right blah blah blah is one heck of a burned out cliche already. Every rational and realistic Nigerian out there knows we currently
have an average team, but with young and talented individual players who can surely attain world class status with time, hardwork, discipline and good coaching. I mean when last did we produce any set of World class players since the '94 generation? even our most recently celebrated Mikel Obi wasn't world class if are to be honest... he was just one very decent player who had the potential to be world class, but plataued into an above average player at some point. We have the making of progress, we have a very young core of a budding generation, for Christ sake give this guys time to get better (and I know that will come with the right coaching). Rohr this Rohr that, the man has done as best as his coaching abilities can allow, and to be honest he has maximized the limitations of this young team into a fairly organized and stable transitioning generation, even though the team has the ability to do better. We have young players like Osihmen, Kalu, Chukwueze, Ndidi, Aribo, Iwobi, heck even Dennis etc who are having great to decent seasons at their respective clubs so far, with most just few seasons away from been snatched up by top clubs soon... why can't we be patient and let these boys develop at their own pace? everything will always be a damn problem with Nigerians even if we win the world cup tomorrow, it's about time you clowns wake up and smell the damn coffee - WE ARE NOT THE SH*T ANYMORE, OUR BRAGGING ERA DON PASS.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:23 pm 
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niyi wrote:
... and we should be doing better than our coach makes you think
Image

In terms of player value, we are ranked 19th in the world. Keep in mind that African players are undervalued as it is.

Without a coach, we should be beating teams ranked lower and a good coach should make us compete like a top 10 side.

do not say anything oooo, the rohrbots will come here to say otherwise

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:23 pm 
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Some of you should watch Senegal play. Their ball control reminds me of how Nigeria played in the 90s


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:27 pm 
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What an epic fail. The guy posts an article showing that we’re 19th most valuable team in the world but blames the coach for not defeating top 10 most valuable in the world lol Delusional clowns. They will ask “do you think only players quality wins a game” then I will respond by saying “na only you get coach” lol Rohr is doing a Fantastic job thus far he just needs support, encouragement etc


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:33 pm 
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niyi wrote:
You don't know what I mean by value even though my post is predicated on numbers?

I'm not in the business of speculation and guess work... you need to show me our players have more bad touches than Algerian players on average... no use for long epistles really.

:lol: :lol: :lol: i too want to see the bad touches..

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:34 pm 
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Tobi17 wrote:
Honestly all these rants about our players not been world class enough, or not getting the basics of football done right blah blah blah is one heck of a burned out cliche already. Every rational and realistic Nigerian out there knows we currently
have an average team, but with young and talented individual players who can surely attain world class status with time, hardwork, discipline and good coaching. I mean when last did we produce any set of World class players since the '94 generation? even our most recently celebrated Mikel Obi wasn't world class if are to be honest... he was just one very decent player who had the potential to be world class, but plataued into an above average player at some point. We have the making of progress, we have a very young core of a budding generation, for Christ sake give this guys time to get better (and I know that will come with the right coaching). Rohr this Rohr that, the man has done as best as his coaching abilities can allow, and to be honest he has maximized the limitations of this young team into a fairly organized and stable transitioning generation, even though the team has the ability to do better. We have young players like Osihmen, Kalu, Chukwueze, Ndidi, Aribo, Iwobi, heck even Dennis etc who are having great to decent seasons at their respective clubs so far, with most just few seasons away from been snatched up by top clubs soon... why can't we be patient and let these boys develop at their own pace? everything will always be a damn problem with Nigerians even if we win the world cup tomorrow, it's about time you clowns wake up and smell the damn coffee - WE ARE NOT THE SH*T ANYMORE, OUR BRAGGING ERA DON PASS.
:agree: :agree:
:clap: :clap: :clap:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:46 pm 
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niyi wrote:
You don't know what I mean by value even though my post is predicated on numbers?

I'm not in the business of speculation and guess work... you need to show me our players have more bad touches than Algerian players on average... no use for long epistles really.



Bros, even your data says we're 19th. So that would mean that, based on your data, if we held a WC today, we won't make it out of the first round...theoretically.

So, since we're all in the theoretical realm, that is essentially what Rohr achieved in the last WC.

So he IS in fact maximizing our talent. You say you're not in the business of speculating and guesswork, but your entire data is theoretical....its all guesswork. No one knows the current value of Chukwueze unless somebody makes an offer.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:50 pm 
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Tobi17 wrote:
Honestly all these rants about our players not been world class enough, or not getting the basics of football done right blah blah blah is one heck of a burned out cliche already. Every rational and realistic Nigerian out there knows we currently
have an average team, but with young and talented individual players who can surely attain world class status with time, hardwork, discipline and good coaching. I mean when last did we produce any set of World class players since the '94 generation? even our most recently celebrated Mikel Obi wasn't world class if are to be honest... he was just one very decent player who had the potential to be world class, but plataued into an above average player at some point. We have the making of progress, we have a very young core of a budding generation, for Christ sake give this guys time to get better (and I know that will come with the right coaching). Rohr this Rohr that, the man has done as best as his coaching abilities can allow, and to be honest he has maximized the limitations of this young team into a fairly organized and stable transitioning generation, even though the team has the ability to do better. We have young players like Osihmen, Kalu, Chukwueze, Ndidi, Aribo, Iwobi, heck even Dennis etc who are having great to decent seasons at their respective clubs so far, with most just few seasons away from been snatched up by top clubs soon... why can't we be patient and let these boys develop at their own pace? everything will always be a damn problem with Nigerians even if we win the world cup tomorrow, it's about time you clowns wake up and smell the damn coffee - WE ARE NOT THE SH*T ANYMORE, OUR BRAGGING ERA DON PASS.


Who's impatient? This is the old song and dance. We have been developing since Onigbinde blew up our veteran team and took some new bloods to the 2002 world cup. Since then, in every WC, we've been either the youngest team or very close to it.

This is the issue here. National Team success, imo, is really a consequence of the players that you have available. If your players are good, and your coach has half a brain, you will do well. Rohr is a good coach, but he cannot teach such fundamentals as ball control. What he would need is for players to emerge on the scene who have these ball skills. Its not about growing Osimhen. His club will do that for us. 1 week national camping cannot grow any player.

I remain an SE supporter. But I've seen this movie before...I'm not going to get excited at a team that by all indications, cannot get past the WC 2nd round. That's a tired movie. There is a certain level we need to get to in order to compete with the best...and I haven't seen it.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:00 pm 
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Like I have always said for Nigeria to Compete with the best and achieve something huge in WORLD FOOTBALL, we need our players at the BEST CLUBS in the world and also the BEST LEAGUE in the world playing week in and out anything contrary, we’re still going to remain stagnant in world football and it doesn’t matter whether ROhR, Keshi, Klopp, Mourinho, Guardiola is the Coach. Obviously, there can be random upset in football ala Costa Rica 2014 etc but we’re not going to hope on upset. When I see rohr, I see a man that has improved our team immensely because when he came on board, most of our boys were at BACKWATER leagues now our boys are at top 5 leagues playing for MIDRATED teams. The next step is the final step and when they get there, I can understand people arrogance if we’re facing any opposition


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:02 pm 
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john12 wrote:
Like I have always said for Nigeria to Compete with the best and achieve something huge in WORLD FOOTBALL, we need our players at the BEST CLUBS in the world and also the BEST LEAGUE in the world playing week in and out anything contrary, we’re still going to remain stagnant in world football and it doesn’t matter whether ROhR, Keshi, Klopp, Mourinho, Guardiola is the Coach. Obviously, there can be random upset in football ala Costa Rica 2014 etc but we’re not going to hope on upset. When I see rohr, I see a man that has improved our team immensely because when he came on board, most of our boys were at BACKWATER leagues now our boys are at top 5 leagues playing for MIDRATED teams. The next step is the final step and when they get there, I can understand people arrogance if we’re facing any opposition


This is the truth.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:10 pm 
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deanotito wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
Honestly all these rants about our players not been world class enough, or not getting the basics of football done right blah blah blah is one heck of a burned out cliche already. Every rational and realistic Nigerian out there knows we currently
have an average team, but with young and talented individual players who can surely attain world class status with time, hardwork, discipline and good coaching. I mean when last did we produce any set of World class players since the '94 generation? even our most recently celebrated Mikel Obi wasn't world class if are to be honest... he was just one very decent player who had the potential to be world class, but plataued into an above average player at some point. We have the making of progress, we have a very young core of a budding generation, for Christ sake give this guys time to get better (and I know that will come with the right coaching). Rohr this Rohr that, the man has done as best as his coaching abilities can allow, and to be honest he has maximized the limitations of this young team into a fairly organized and stable transitioning generation, even though the team has the ability to do better. We have young players like Osihmen, Kalu, Chukwueze, Ndidi, Aribo, Iwobi, heck even Dennis etc who are having great to decent seasons at their respective clubs so far, with most just few seasons away from been snatched up by top clubs soon... why can't we be patient and let these boys develop at their own pace? everything will always be a damn problem with Nigerians even if we win the world cup tomorrow, it's about time you clowns wake up and smell the damn coffee - WE ARE NOT THE SH*T ANYMORE, OUR BRAGGING ERA DON PASS.


Who's impatient? This is the old song and dance. We have been developing since Onigbinde blew up our veteran team and took some new bloods to the 2002 world cup. Since then, in every WC, we've been either the youngest team or very close to it.

This is the issue here. National Team success, imo, is really a consequence of the players that you have available. If your players are good, and your coach has half a brain, you will do well. Rohr is a good coach, but he cannot teach such fundamentals as ball control. What he would need is for players to emerge on the scene who have these ball skills. Its not about growing Osimhen. His club will do that for us. 1 week national camping cannot grow any player.

I remain an SE supporter. But I've seen this movie before...I'm not going to get excited at a team that by all indications, cannot get past the WC 2nd round. That's a tired movie. There is a certain level we need to get to in order to compete with the best...and I haven't seen it.

The solution is quite simple - improve your local football league at the most fundamental level, fund the league properly so that our very best talents wouldn't get disenfranchised with the poor infrastructure and standards of our football back home, and then travel to some backwood club in Serbia, Bulgaria, Latvia or San Marino just to make a better life etc.. till we get the basics right, every and any journeyman foreign coach will always end up managing our team. We will keep relying on England's or any foreign countries remnants or rejects of Nigerian heritage to play for us, and even at that, still have relegate ourselves as second options in the event their countries of birth don't cap tie them first ...till then we will always console ourselves to the tag of been called the "youngest team" whenever we fail to meet high standards... So maybe we should tame our glossy expectations (sophisticated as it may seem ) to expect the best from our football when we have no structures in place to guarantee such. expectations. Rohr's contract will soon end, then we shall see which "world class" coach will come along, wave his magic wands... and get the SE to start playing like prime Barcelona.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:21 pm 
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Tobi17 wrote:
deanotito wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
Honestly all these rants about our players not been world class enough, or not getting the basics of football done right blah blah blah is one heck of a burned out cliche already. Every rational and realistic Nigerian out there knows we currently
have an average team, but with young and talented individual players who can surely attain world class status with time, hardwork, discipline and good coaching. I mean when last did we produce any set of World class players since the '94 generation? even our most recently celebrated Mikel Obi wasn't world class if are to be honest... he was just one very decent player who had the potential to be world class, but plataued into an above average player at some point. We have the making of progress, we have a very young core of a budding generation, for Christ sake give this guys time to get better (and I know that will come with the right coaching). Rohr this Rohr that, the man has done as best as his coaching abilities can allow, and to be honest he has maximized the limitations of this young team into a fairly organized and stable transitioning generation, even though the team has the ability to do better. We have young players like Osihmen, Kalu, Chukwueze, Ndidi, Aribo, Iwobi, heck even Dennis etc who are having great to decent seasons at their respective clubs so far, with most just few seasons away from been snatched up by top clubs soon... why can't we be patient and let these boys develop at their own pace? everything will always be a damn problem with Nigerians even if we win the world cup tomorrow, it's about time you clowns wake up and smell the damn coffee - WE ARE NOT THE SH*T ANYMORE, OUR BRAGGING ERA DON PASS.


Who's impatient? This is the old song and dance. We have been developing since Onigbinde blew up our veteran team and took some new bloods to the 2002 world cup. Since then, in every WC, we've been either the youngest team or very close to it.

This is the issue here. National Team success, imo, is really a consequence of the players that you have available. If your players are good, and your coach has half a brain, you will do well. Rohr is a good coach, but he cannot teach such fundamentals as ball control. What he would need is for players to emerge on the scene who have these ball skills. Its not about growing Osimhen. His club will do that for us. 1 week national camping cannot grow any player.

I remain an SE supporter. But I've seen this movie before...I'm not going to get excited at a team that by all indications, cannot get past the WC 2nd round. That's a tired movie. There is a certain level we need to get to in order to compete with the best...and I haven't seen it.

The solution is quite simple - improve your local football league at the most fundamental level, fund the league properly so that our very best talents wouldn't get disenfranchised with the poor infrastructure and standards of our football back home, and then travel to some backwood club in Serbia, Bulgaria, Latvia or San Marino just to make a better life etc.. till we get the basics right, every and any journeyman foreign coach will always end up managing our team. We will keep relying on England's or any foreign countries remnants or rejects of Nigerian heritage to play for us, and even at that, still have relegate ourselves as second options in the event their countries of birth don't cap tie them first ...till then we will always console ourselves to the tag of been called the "youngest team" whenever we fail to meet high standards... So maybe we should tame our glossy expectations (sophisticated as it may seem ) to expect the best from our football when we have no structures in place to guarantee such. expectations. Rohr's contract will soon end, then we shall see which "world class" coach will come along, wave his magic wands... and get the SE to start playing like prime Barcelona.


I wish our migrants went to Brazil as much as they did England. We'd have some solid footballers today :)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:42 pm 
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deanotito wrote:
niyi wrote:
You don't know what I mean by value even though my post is predicated on numbers?

I'm not in the business of speculation and guess work... you need to show me our players have more bad touches than Algerian players on average... no use for long epistles really.



Bros, even your data says we're 19th. So that would mean that, based on your data, if we held a WC today, we won't make it out of the first round...theoretically.

So, since we're all in the theoretical realm, that is essentially what Rohr achieved in the last WC.

So he IS in fact maximizing our talent. You say you're not in the business of speculating and guesswork, but your entire data is theoretical....its all guesswork. No one knows the current value of Chukwueze unless somebody makes an offer.


My brother I don't understand you and you probably don't understand me either.

Firstly, I published a value based on numbers and you said you didn't know what value meant.

Next, I said in my post that African players are undervalued and a good coach would have us performing above our potential at a Top 10-12 level and you're teling me a first round exit at the world cup is good enough.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:45 pm 
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deanotito wrote:
john12 wrote:
Like I have always said for Nigeria to Compete with the best and achieve something huge in WORLD FOOTBALL, we need our players at the BEST CLUBS in the world and also the BEST LEAGUE in the world playing week in and out anything contrary, we’re still going to remain stagnant in world football and it doesn’t matter whether ROhR, Keshi, Klopp, Mourinho, Guardiola is the Coach. Obviously, there can be random upset in football ala Costa Rica 2014 etc but we’re not going to hope on upset. When I see rohr, I see a man that has improved our team immensely because when he came on board, most of our boys were at BACKWATER leagues now our boys are at top 5 leagues playing for MIDRATED teams. The next step is the final step and when they get there, I can understand people arrogance if we’re facing any opposition


This is the truth.


We came third at the nations cup.

The individual rankings show Senegal, Nigeria and Algeria have the top 3 most valuable teams in Africa. All three teams were top 3 at the AFCON. It's been studied many times that team value gives a good indication of a team's performance.

Now a good coach, the Algerian coach had his team nominally ranked 3rd based on their rankings coming 1st. I put it to you that this is what a good coach does.

We performed below our potential at the Nations cup and that's a fact!

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:10 pm 
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I don't have any set expectations for any SE team. I was heavily invested in circa 2006 SE national pool which I believe was arguably more talented than this current team with players such as Yobo, Obodo, Ayinla, Yakubu, Martins, Odiah, Utaka, Taiwo etc who were all playing regularly in the top 5 leagues plus you had young players such Mikel, Obasi, Nsofor and Apam entering the frame. I believe they were even ranked as high as no.9 in the world by FIFA during that period. They achieved absolutely nothing though.

Back to your point, I think the SE are currently doing OK. I also feel Rohr has got the team playing close their maximum ability. He deserves credit however it must be noted that Rohr hasn't done anything out of the ordinary IMO that his predecessors with less "talented" squads also haven't done. I don't really get the adulation he receives at times.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:11 pm 
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Zelex wrote:
I don't have any set expectations for any SE team. I was heavily invested in circa 2006 SE national pool which I believe was arguably more talented than this current team with players such as Yobo, Obodo, Ayinla, Yakubu, Martins, Odiah, Utaka, Taiwo etc who were all playing regularly in the top 5 leagues plus you had young players such Mikel, Obasi, Nsofor and Apam entering the frame. I believe they were even ranked as high as no.9 in the world by FIFA during that period. They achieved absolutely nothing though.

Back to your point, I think the SE are currently doing OK. I also feel Rohr has got the team playing close their maximum ability. He deserves credit however it must be noted that Rohr hasn't done anything out of the ordinary IMO that his predecessors with less "talented" squads also haven't done. I don't really get the adulation he receives at times.

At least you are honest enough to admit the highlighted part, truth is I even doubt that 2006 circa was more talented than these current generation... yes they were more hyped up and all, and it seemed at the time that that 3006 generation was almost infallible, but as time would go on to prove... they by and large achieved absolutely nothing... just all hype and nothing more. We can even argue that the only players in that generation who went on to have great to decent careers were Mikel, Martins, Yak, and Yobo... the rest flattered to deceive. Talent in many ways is not just about having teams with big names, but their overall achievements and longevity. With the likes Osimhen, Chukwueze, Aribo, Ndidi, Simon, Iwobi, Kalu etc we have a core of genuinely young players who are a more ideal ceiling for achieving more, and setting better records at all levels than their predecessors.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:13 pm 
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A team that was got 3rd place at nations cup definitely didn’t perform below par. There was 3 teams that our had won that nations cup and the margin of defeat was so mint so I don’t even get your point


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:24 pm 
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niyi wrote:
... and we should be doing better than our coach makes you think
Image

In terms of player value, we are ranked 19th in the world. Keep in mind that African players are undervalued as it is.

Without a coach, we should be beating teams ranked lower and a good coach should make us compete like a top 10 side.
...a good coach you can't pay?
The reason the likes of these journey-men coaches from Europe come here is because they consider this a job as retirement employ.
You know, like players who after successful plays at big leagues, big clubs, go to China, Mideast, or some Asian country to relax and collect extras.


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