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 Post subject: Re: Etebo
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:12 pm 
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I knew nfachairman was going to come with stats to defend his boy.

Truth is Ndidi and Etebo were atrocious on Sunday. Just terrible midfield play both on and off the ball.

Here's what the stats won't tell you

1. Neither one of them ability to find Iwobi in the first half. Iwobi moved and moved and our midifielders did not trust themselves to make decisive passes to him.

2. Inability to make decisive passes to overlapping full backs. There was one sequence Awziem had a step on the opposing fullback and ur boy Etebo shrieked from making the pass to him. The pass no reach him level.

3. Inability to control the space in front of the CBs. Many times i saw them go for the same man. Getting drawn out by the ball and getting beat by one pass.

4. Slow to react to 1v1 wing isolation against our FBs. Ndidi moreso than Etebo on this one.

Stata cant show you all this. Your eyes can though.


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 Post subject: Re: Etebo
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:28 pm 
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Ugbowo wrote:
I knew nfachairman was going to come with stats to defend his boy.

Truth is Ndidi and Etebo were atrocious on Sunday. Just terrible midfield play both on and off the ball.

Here's what the stats won't tell you

1. Neither one of them ability to find Iwobi in the first half. Iwobi moved and moved and our midifielders did not trust themselves to make decisive passes to him.

2. Inability to make decisive passes to overlapping full backs. There was one sequence Awziem had a step on the opposing fullback and ur boy Etebo shrieked from making the pass to him. The pass no reach him level.

3. Inability to control the space in front of the CBs. Many times i saw them go for the same man. Getting drawn out by the ball and getting beat by one pass.

4. Slow to react to 1v1 wing isolation against our FBs. Ndidi moreso than Etebo on this one.

Stata cant show you all this. Your eyes can though.


You say they were atrocious but the Beinsports and Supersports pundits say they totally balled.

i would rather go with them. :biggrin:


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 Post subject: Re: Etebo
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:04 pm 
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chief nfachairman wrote:
Ugbowo wrote:
I knew nfachairman was going to come with stats to defend his boy.

Truth is Ndidi and Etebo were atrocious on Sunday. Just terrible midfield play both on and off the ball.

Here's what the stats won't tell you

1. Neither one of them ability to find Iwobi in the first half. Iwobi moved and moved and our midifielders did not trust themselves to make decisive passes to him.

2. Inability to make decisive passes to overlapping full backs. There was one sequence Awziem had a step on the opposing fullback and ur boy Etebo shrieked from making the pass to him. The pass no reach him level.

3. Inability to control the space in front of the CBs. Many times i saw them go for the same man. Getting drawn out by the ball and getting beat by one pass.

4. Slow to react to 1v1 wing isolation against our FBs. Ndidi moreso than Etebo on this one.

Stata cant show you all this. Your eyes can though.


You say they were atrocious but the Beinsports and Supersports pundits say they totally balled.

i would rather go with them. :biggrin:


LOL :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

WOWO


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 Post subject: Re: Etebo
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:01 am 
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by the way, i dont analyze stats in isolation. Every single available data analyzed together with watching the live match (especially when you rewatch it).


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 Post subject: Re: Etebo
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:07 am 
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Nfachairman, your boy generally has had a good tournament but the last game exposed shortcomings in Etebo’s game that I’ve noticed over the last couple of years. My hope for him is he gets into a club that will clean up his weaknesses because stoke city no be am.

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 Post subject: Re: Etebo
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:02 am 
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Interesting that txj's the only one to mention the systemic issue with Rohr's tactics which limits Etebo's game to that of a water-carrier/destroyer and especially in a midfield pivot he (as well as Ndidi) is required to do a lot more than what is feasible IMO. This could've easily been nullified if Iwobi just dropped deeper in the possession phase of our plays.

If you've watched either of them at their clubs, they are more often than not in a midfield trio because their coaches understand their best qualities, but sadly we only seemed to bring 2 midfielders to Egypt :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Etebo
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:43 am 
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Sunset wrote:
Interesting that txj's the only one to mention the systemic issue with Rohr's tactics which limits Etebo's game to that of a water-carrier/destroyer and especially in a midfield pivot he (as well as Ndidi) is required to do a lot more than what is feasible IMO. This could've easily been nullified if Iwobi just dropped deeper in the possession phase of our plays.

If you've watched either of them at their clubs, they are more often than not in a midfield trio because their coaches understand their best qualities, but sadly we only seemed to bring 2 midfielders to Egypt :roll:


He did drop Iwobi deeper in the second half against Cameroun. our midfield got overrun by the algerians.

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 Post subject: Re: Etebo
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:01 pm 
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Quick question, have you guys rewatched the game without pressure?

Etebo actually balled, nicked the ball off the Algerian midfielders so many times, sometimes starting counters which were wasted. Won FKs off the Algerian as they tussled to get to the ball furst. Passing as on point, rarely if ever got dispossessed. He did his part all tournament but gassed towards the end of this game.

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 Post subject: Re: Etebo
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:51 pm 
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the trio of Iwobi , Ndidi and Etebo were marvellous in this AFCON.... however we had a very porous manager who over-worked them... Ekong is a very poor defender, especially when bringing the ball out the back. I do not rate him at all.. He got exposed and always panicked in possession ... We need a better CB to complement Omeruo.... We are struggling with possession due to how Ekong just kicks the ball away... Just maybe Rohr should have deployed Mikel as CB

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 Post subject: Re: Etebo
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:27 pm 
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One can't critic a player's game without being termed a hater on CE.

Both Ndidi and Etebo did not play to their usual high standards. Watching the game life, couple of players seemed to me played below their usual high standards and expectations. What I noticed was the spacing between the two (Ndidi & Etebo) where they at times went for the same ball or played or marked the same space.

All tournament long, I think both players were our best players... and I think the heavy minutes and their workload finally got the better of them.

I still want to see Etebo given a free role at some point.

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 Post subject: Re: Etebo
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:34 pm 
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maceo4 wrote:
Quick question, have you guys rewatched the game without pressure?

Etebo actually balled, nicked the ball off the Algerian midfielders so many times, sometimes starting counters which were wasted. Won FKs off the Algerian as they tussled to get to the ball furst. Passing as on point, rarely if ever got dispossessed. He did his part all tournament but gassed towards the end of this game.


Observed the same thing in the parts of the game I watched. The problem here is some of the folks criticizing Etebo are diehard Mikel. In other words, they feel Mikel should’ve played that role. Only he is good enough for that role.

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 Post subject: Re: Etebo
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:57 pm 
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YUJAM wrote:
maceo4 wrote:
Quick question, have you guys rewatched the game without pressure?

Etebo actually balled, nicked the ball off the Algerian midfielders so many times, sometimes starting counters which were wasted. Won FKs off the Algerian as they tussled to get to the ball furst. Passing as on point, rarely if ever got dispossessed. He did his part all tournament but gassed towards the end of this game.


Observed the same thing in the parts of the game I watched. The problem here is some of the folks criticizing Etebo are diehard Mikel. In other words, they feel Mikel should’ve played that role. Only he is good enough for that role.

i never criticized Etebo. I think Peter should always start ..left to me he shouldn't be playing in the championship

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 Post subject: Re: Etebo
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:26 pm 
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Bigpokey24 wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
maceo4 wrote:
Quick question, have you guys rewatched the game without pressure?

Etebo actually balled, nicked the ball off the Algerian midfielders so many times, sometimes starting counters which were wasted. Won FKs off the Algerian as they tussled to get to the ball furst. Passing as on point, rarely if ever got dispossessed. He did his part all tournament but gassed towards the end of this game.


Observed the same thing in the parts of the game I watched. The problem here is some of the folks criticizing Etebo are diehard Mikel. In other words, they feel Mikel should’ve played that role. Only he is good enough for that role.

i never criticized Etebo. I think Peter should always start ..left to me he shouldn't be playing in the championship


Guy no be you he dey refer to. And he is right.

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He says that we are currently "brainwashed" into believing that the Premier League is the best competition in the world, and that we are now a long way off dominating the Champions League again.
Gary Neville: Mirror: 12/23/14

I think Spain’s by far the best league.
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 Post subject: Re: Etebo
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:50 pm 
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Incase you missed it.

Etebo, Eagles strongest man at AFCON 2019

Read more at: https://www.vanguardngr.com/2019/07/ete ... fcon-2019/

Stoke City’s midfielder, Oghenekaro Etebo turned out to be the Super Eagles strongest player during their Africa Cup of Nations campaign here in Egypt.

Etebo Of all the 23 players Coach Gernot Rohr took to the competition, only the former Warri Wolves playmaker played all seven matches and the full 630 minutes. The player who picked up one yellow card during the campaign apart from playing all the games was also the only player that was not substituted.

Rohr while commending Etebo, said he still has age on his side but advised that he must aim to leave the lower league in England and play for a big club anywhere in Europe. Nigeria vs Algeria : Why Eagles lost – Rohr “Etebo must move up to a big club, players must grow and play in big clubs, most of the work is done in the clubs, not in the national team,” he said.

The German tactician said that the Super Eagles attack was good but that Odion Ighalo, though a good scorer, must reconsider remaining in the Chinese league from where he comes to the national camp either fatigued or injured . He stressed that if remains the teams handler, he will need to beef up areas he knows are lagging behind, adding that “we need players who are playing in their clubs. We have players playing all the time in their clubs but we don’t have Riyad Marhez, we don’t have Onana like Cameroon, we don’t have Champions League players”, he said.

Read more at: https://www.vanguardngr.com/2019/07/ete ... fcon-2019/


Read more at: https://www.vanguardngr.com/2019/07/ete ... fcon-2019/


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 Post subject: Re: Etebo
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:30 pm 
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green4life wrote:
Given Etebo's skill level and athletic/ physical attributes, at this point in his career, he should be playing in a competitive club in a big league (England, Germany, Spain or Italy). ....... That said, Etebo can look towards the likes of Sissoko and Kovacic to mention a few on the model for a path to an important club. These are players who are high energy, work hard for the team, help the team win the ball and retain possession after it's won, drive the team forward and importantly know their limits and when to hand over the play to the better placed player. Etebo can be this type of player within one season in the right environment but at mid table Stoke City? No way Jose!


green4life wrote:
Nfachairman, your boy, Etebo, is a talented player who should be playing in a much better club than Stoke City but you are doing him a disservice by being a 'yes-man'. Advise him properly so he can improve sufficiently enough to move to the next level AND stay at that level for a lengthy period of years.


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Rohr while commending Etebo, said he still has age on his side but advised that he must aim to leave the lower league in England and play for a big club anywhere in Europe. Nigeria vs Algeria : Why Eagles lost – Rohr “Etebo must move up to a big club, players must grow and play in big clubs, most of the work is done in the clubs, not in the national team,” he said.


Coach Rohr must also be a hater because he's saying nothing different from what I said on multiple occasions previously. But then again, it always sounds better when a white man says it so i understand why you have finally agreed with me ... sorry, I meant Mr. Rohr. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Etebo
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:25 pm 
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green4life wrote:
green4life wrote:
Given Etebo's skill level and athletic/ physical attributes, at this point in his career, he should be playing in a competitive club in a big league (England, Germany, Spain or Italy). ....... That said, Etebo can look towards the likes of Sissoko and Kovacic to mention a few on the model for a path to an important club. These are players who are high energy, work hard for the team, help the team win the ball and retain possession after it's won, drive the team forward and importantly know their limits and when to hand over the play to the better placed player. Etebo can be this type of player within one season in the right environment but at mid table Stoke City? No way Jose!


green4life wrote:
Nfachairman, your boy, Etebo, is a talented player who should be playing in a much better club than Stoke City but you are doing him a disservice by being a 'yes-man'. Advise him properly so he can improve sufficiently enough to move to the next level AND stay at that level for a lengthy period of years.


CoachRohr wrote:
Rohr while commending Etebo, said he still has age on his side but advised that he must aim to leave the lower league in England and play for a big club anywhere in Europe. Nigeria vs Algeria : Why Eagles lost – Rohr “Etebo must move up to a big club, players must grow and play in big clubs, most of the work is done in the clubs, not in the national team,” he said.


Coach Rohr must also be a hater because he's saying nothing different from what I said on multiple occasions previously. But then again, it always sounds better when a white man says it so i understand why you have finally agreed with me ... sorry, I meant Mr. Rohr. :lol:



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 Post subject: Re: Etebo
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:51 pm 
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green4life wrote:
green4life wrote:
Given Etebo's skill level and athletic/ physical attributes, at this point in his career, he should be playing in a competitive club in a big league (England, Germany, Spain or Italy). ....... That said, Etebo can look towards the likes of Sissoko and Kovacic to mention a few on the model for a path to an important club. These are players who are high energy, work hard for the team, help the team win the ball and retain possession after it's won, drive the team forward and importantly know their limits and when to hand over the play to the better placed player. Etebo can be this type of player within one season in the right environment but at mid table Stoke City? No way Jose!


green4life wrote:
Nfachairman, your boy, Etebo, is a talented player who should be playing in a much better club than Stoke City but you are doing him a disservice by being a 'yes-man'. Advise him properly so he can improve sufficiently enough to move to the next level AND stay at that level for a lengthy period of years.


CoachRohr wrote:
Rohr while commending Etebo, said he still has age on his side but advised that he must aim to leave the lower league in England and play for a big club anywhere in Europe. Nigeria vs Algeria : Why Eagles lost – Rohr “Etebo must move up to a big club, players must grow and play in big clubs, most of the work is done in the clubs, not in the national team,” he said.


Coach Rohr must also be a hater because he's saying nothing different from what I said on multiple occasions previously. But then again, it always sounds better when a white man says it so i understand why you have finally agreed with me ... sorry, I meant Mr. Rohr. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Etebo
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:56 am 
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green4life wrote:
Coach Rohr must also be a hater because he's saying nothing different from what I said on multiple occasions previously. But then again, it always sounds better when a white man says it so i understand why you have finally agreed with me ... sorry, I meant Mr. Rohr. :lol:
Firstly and with all due respect, you might not realise it but you and Rohr are not in the same category. :D
The Sunday - Sunday kindergarten church team you coach isn't exactly the Super Eagles and so it is natural that Rohr's comments are given slightly more weight than yours.

Secondly, let go of this "white man" thing. Its a cop out.
If Keshi or Oliseh or Siasia had said what Rohr said, it would still have been given equal weight. So its nothing to do with white skin.

Yes, it's embarrassing when people only listen to what is being said when a "white" man opens his mouth but it is equally embarrassing when our own people talk rubbish and then believe they are being ignored simply because they are 'not white'.

If it was that bad, the campaign to get rid of Rohr for a local coach wouldnt be so ferocious and is, in fact, a testimony to the diversity of opinion amongst Naijas.

Your point was well made and I'm sure you had your supporters, just like Rohr had and still has his critics

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 Post subject: Re: Etebo
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:58 am 
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Is anyone aware that Etebo had the highest pass accuracy (87.6% ) of the entire SE team at AFCON?
Me sef, I shock. :shock:

Seems many of us underestimate Etebo, probably because he isnt a 'step-over' type of player.
Seems his pass accuracy wasn't only the highest in the SE team, BUT PROBABLY ONE OF THE HIGHEST IN THE ENTIRE COMPETITION.

https://www.beinsports.com/en/afcon-201 ... 216/227560


Other Key Players:
NDIDI 83%
COLLINS 82.9% (HAD HIGHEST ACCURACY OF LONG PASSES - 83.3%)
EKONG 81.2%
AWAZIEM 80.8%
AINA 80.7%
OMERUO 80.2%
MIKEL 78.9%
IWOBI 78.1%
CHUKWUEZE 76.1%
IGHALO 74.7%
MUSA 65.1%

Other High Profile AFCON Players
Achraf Hakimi (MOR) 85.1%
Wilfred Zaha (CIV) 84.9%
Thomas Partey (GHA) 81.1%
Sadio Mane (SEN) 78.9%
Khalidou Koulibaly (SEN) 76.9%
Nicolas Pepe (CIV) 76.5%
Riyadh Mahrez (ALG) 75.3%
Hakeem Ziyech (MOR) 74.4%
Mo Sallah (EGY) 69.4%

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 Post subject: Re: Etebo
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:22 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
Is anyone aware that Etebo had the highest pass accuracy (87.6% ) of the entire SE team at AFCON?
Me sef, I shock. :shock:

Seems many of us underestimate Etebo, probably because he isnt a 'step-over' type of player.
Seems his pass accuracy wasn't only the highest in the SE team, BUT PROBABLY ONE OF THE HIGHEST IN THE ENTIRE COMPETITION.

https://www.beinsports.com/en/afcon-201 ... 216/227560


Other Key Players:
NDIDI 83%
COLLINS 82.9% (HAD HIGHEST ACCURACY OF LONG PASSES - 83.3%)
EKONG 81.2%
AWAZIEM 80.8%
AINA 80.7%
OMERUO 80.2%
MIKEL 78.9%
IWOBI 78.1%
CHUKWUEZE 76.1%
IGHALO 74.7%
MUSA 65.1%

Other High Profile AFCON Players
Achraf Hakimi (MOR) 85.1%
Wilfred Zaha (CIV) 84.9%
Thomas Partey (GHA) 81.1%
Sadio Mane (SEN) 78.9%
Khalidou Koulibaly (SEN) 76.9%
Nicolas Pepe (CIV) 76.5%
Riyadh Mahrez (ALG) 75.3%
Hakeem Ziyech (MOR) 74.4%
Mo Sallah (EGY) 69.4%



Damunk,

What really impresses me with Etebo is not his passing but his ability to twist his body very quickly to put himself between the ball and an opponent who he has just dispossessed. It is so quick and I do not know many footballers who can do that as quick as he does it. You have it correct that many underestimate the guy.

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 Post subject: Re: Etebo
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:03 am 
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Enugu II wrote:
Damunk wrote:
Is anyone aware that Etebo had the highest pass accuracy (87.6% ) of the entire SE team at AFCON?
Me sef, I shock. :shock:

Seems many of us underestimate Etebo, probably because he isnt a 'step-over' type of player.
Seems his pass accuracy wasn't only the highest in the SE team, BUT PROBABLY ONE OF THE HIGHEST IN THE ENTIRE COMPETITION.

https://www.beinsports.com/en/afcon-201 ... 216/227560


Other Key Players:
NDIDI 83%
COLLINS 82.9% (HAD HIGHEST ACCURACY OF LONG PASSES - 83.3%)
EKONG 81.2%
AWAZIEM 80.8%
AINA 80.7%
OMERUO 80.2%
MIKEL 78.9%
IWOBI 78.1%
CHUKWUEZE 76.1%
IGHALO 74.7%
MUSA 65.1%

Other High Profile AFCON Players
Achraf Hakimi (MOR) 85.1%
Wilfred Zaha (CIV) 84.9%
Thomas Partey (GHA) 81.1%
Sadio Mane (SEN) 78.9%
Khalidou Koulibaly (SEN) 76.9%
Nicolas Pepe (CIV) 76.5%
Riyadh Mahrez (ALG) 75.3%
Hakeem Ziyech (MOR) 74.4%
Mo Sallah (EGY) 69.4%



Damunk,

What really impresses me with Etebo is not his passing but his ability to twist his body very quickly to put himself between the ball and an opponent who he has just dispossessed. It is so quick and I do not know many footballers who can do that as quick as he does it. You have it correct that many underestimate the guy.
I am def one of them.
I can go a whole match and not even notice he's on the pitch. It simply suggests he's a 'no ceremony' kind of player. I need to watch him more closely from now on.

The other shocking thing about the pass accuracy stats is that Ekong and Omeruo (and even Ndidi, not to mention Etebo himself) have been regularly accused of playing 'ABF' football. But with all four scoring above 80%, it only goes to show how distorted our perceptions can be.

I suspect we all have a subconscious perception bias and register only their errors while hardly noticing their successes, probably because we quickly move on to the next piece of play i.e. 'what happens next'.
When it finally breaks down, we again register the error.
This is possibly why Musa and Ighalo appeared to receive the major brunt of Nigerian fans' anger at AFCON - despite the latter winning the Golden Boot.

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 Post subject: Re: Etebo
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:15 am 
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While I appreciate Etebo's hard work and energy I still believe he's too limited to be a starter next to Ndidi. We cannot have 2 lumberjacks in mf and hope to be world class.

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 Post subject: Re: Etebo
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:21 am 
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EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA wrote:
While I appreciate Etebo's hard work and energy I still believe he's too limited to be a starter next to Ndidi. We cannot have 2 lumberjacks in mf and hope to be world class.

I'm sure Rohr knows this by now, with the likes of Azubuike, Mikel Agu, Esiti, Ebere Eze, Nwakali etc waiting to burst into that midfield soon, I'm not too worried... We can even convert/try out some of our numerous talented wingers into midfielders especially in the attacking role.


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