The case to keep Rohr for 2022

[walesvilla]

Rohr to continue provided - there are new set of goalkeepers in the national team-

[charlie]

Preface: This thread is for thoughtful conversation and debate only. To the Rohr haters club, please kindly take a hike.
We already know your agenda.

Now the dust has settled and the emotion of our semi-final loss to Algeria is beginning to simmer, let us think logically.
You want to replace Rohr? Ok, Simple question,...with whom?

Provide your response and your reason why whomsoever you will select as his replacement will be guaranteed to do a better job.
Here are my reasons for extending Rohr's contract until the next WC qualifiers.

1. Continuity & Consistency
Nigeria has consistently improved under Gerhart Rohr. We have qualified for every tournament he has managed, and we have increasingly improved in terms of the results we have achieved.

It took 5 years for Clemens Westerhof to turn Nigeria into the powerhouse we remember today in 1994.
Many of you might forget but in 1990, Algeria beat us 5-1 in the group stage, then 1-0 in the CAF final.
This same Algeria beat us fair and square in 2019.

There is a little bit of a deja vu feeling with this team. The core have been to 2 major tournaments, and have in each, taken a step further than the last. Instead of rolling the dice, I would prefer to give consistency a go and see what we can do in 2022.

2. Easier to destroy than to build
Anyone can rip a team apart, can fire a coach. The question is, who knows the recipe of building a successful team? The road to success is not an easy one, not is it straight forward nor does it reap immediate rewards. It takes hard work, patience and perseverance. This team doesn't need a overhaul. It needs tweaking and improvement, and Rohr is in my opinion best placed to figure out what this is as he knows his team better than any of us..

A Semi-final finish in a competition that saw all I major rivals drop along the way (including the host), especially when you consider we haven't been to an AFCON since 2013, is a good result. We should build on this, not tear it down and start afresh, which is what a new coach will do.

From my POV, no case for keeping Rohr unless we've given up and let whatever, happen.
Continuity is only profitable if the foundation is good. Rohr has been in post for over 2 years and we still cannot see progress, other than we qualify for tournaments, other teams do that as well.
Yes it's easier to destroy than to build but it's futile to keep a faulty structure. Better to pull down, salvage any reusable materials and rebuild properly.

2022 is another 3 years away. Anymore of this ish for 3 years will see the SE regress badly.
Rohr must markedly improve, both in tactics and team selection or exit the stage

So you are even dismissing the very foundation of this team now?
Kuku disband the whole team nah.

You have a whole batch of young, talented players in every department already in the SE equation, many brought in by Rohr himself and you say there's "no foundation"?

This is baffling.

On the contrary. I was careful to include "materials that can be reused" . The foundation don't necessarily mean personnel. It can mean the way the team is setup to play, the philosophy of the team. Get that wrong and your personnel will be wrong.

The likes of Akpeyi and a few others must go.

Pajimoh, the foundation of this team is intact and in fact, it is the one thing Rohr cannot be criticized of if anyone is being objective.

We have a young core group of disciplined players with a high level of professionalism, tactical organization minded identity. When was the last time we had players waltzing into camp late, bringing ashewos into camp or creating any scandal whatsoever?

Are the improvements to be made in key areas? Absolutely! Many criticized Uzoho after the WC, and Rohr decided to try a GK that has more playing time in Akpeyi. If clearly hasn't worked and our GK search still clearly isn't over. I am pretty sure he knows that.

If we need more attacking flair, then work with Rohr to get a Nigerian assistant that can not only learn from him but also help to combine his defensive rigidity with Nigerian attacking flair. We need a proper transition plan to be put into place so once Rohr leaves, we are not start from scratch. Its better than returning us to the dark days of the mid 2000s.

We have made significant progress. Let us build on that, not tear it down and start again. Instead build on it.

BTW, Its no shame to have been beaten than likely the best team in this tournament. Before this match, those of us that have been watching the games had expressed significant caution about Algeria. Other than the penalty we scored, that team had only conceded 1 goal to get to the finals.

Algeria are my favorites by far to win it all.

Again, the foundation of the team might not necessarily mean personnel change but philosophy of the team. Through that, you can get the best of the talents you have to perform at their optimum, in a style they are comfortable with.
A good example is Pochetino. All he did was change the philosophy of the team. Insist on giving your best regardless of selection and increased fitness level with a pressing game. Those who could not cope where sold and he looks for players with a certain profile for the team.
We cannot say because we have a young team, the foundation is there. We have the materials. The foundation is how they are structured in the team. Then they must improve their understanding and contribution to the team.
I look at the team of 1994. They had identity and philosophy. Once they get the ball, with "one touch" passing, they move with blinding speed into the opponents 18 before they could even set to defend. Once commentator even described it as "athletic" football.

Against Algeria, when we attack, before we get to their 18, they've had enough time to get 5 men behind the ball. We take too many touches a d too far apart from each other to effectively pass the ball and string passes together. It reflects on our overall possession stats.
Philosophy is very important and discernable style of play. I'm struggling to see it in this team.

That identity and philosophy we had in the 94 team didn't happen overnight PaJimoh. It took 5 years to build and nurture.
It also took an injection of talent that came from more experienced players playing better football with top European teams.
The process has started again with this team. See the improvement in Trost Ekong, Aina, Omeruo, Iwobi?
I doubt Etebo will be playing at Stokes or Awazeim at Rizespor this season.
And see the immense potential of Chukwueze who reminds me of a young Okocha that burst onto the scene in 1990.

Patience is the right course of action at this point. It is the only thing that has worked for us in the past, not changing coaches because we fail to win tournaments overnight.

[pajimoh]

Preface: This thread is for thoughtful conversation and debate only. To the Rohr haters club, please kindly take a hike.
We already know your agenda.

Now the dust has settled and the emotion of our semi-final loss to Algeria is beginning to simmer, let us think logically.
You want to replace Rohr? Ok, Simple question,...with whom?

Provide your response and your reason why whomsoever you will select as his replacement will be guaranteed to do a better job.
Here are my reasons for extending Rohr's contract until the next WC qualifiers.

1. Continuity & Consistency
Nigeria has consistently improved under Gerhart Rohr. We have qualified for every tournament he has managed, and we have increasingly improved in terms of the results we have achieved.

It took 5 years for Clemens Westerhof to turn Nigeria into the powerhouse we remember today in 1994.
Many of you might forget but in 1990, Algeria beat us 5-1 in the group stage, then 1-0 in the CAF final.
This same Algeria beat us fair and square in 2019.

There is a little bit of a deja vu feeling with this team. The core have been to 2 major tournaments, and have in each, taken a step further than the last. Instead of rolling the dice, I would prefer to give consistency a go and see what we can do in 2022.

2. Easier to destroy than to build
Anyone can rip a team apart, can fire a coach. The question is, who knows the recipe of building a successful team? The road to success is not an easy one, not is it straight forward nor does it reap immediate rewards. It takes hard work, patience and perseverance. This team doesn't need a overhaul. It needs tweaking and improvement, and Rohr is in my opinion best placed to figure out what this is as he knows his team better than any of us..

A Semi-final finish in a competition that saw all I major rivals drop along the way (including the host), especially when you consider we haven't been to an AFCON since 2013, is a good result. We should build on this, not tear it down and start afresh, which is what a new coach will do.

From my POV, no case for keeping Rohr unless we've given up and let whatever, happen.
Continuity is only profitable if the foundation is good. Rohr has been in post for over 2 years and we still cannot see progress, other than we qualify for tournaments, other teams do that as well.
Yes it's easier to destroy than to build but it's futile to keep a faulty structure. Better to pull down, salvage any reusable materials and rebuild properly.

2022 is another 3 years away. Anymore of this ish for 3 years will see the SE regress badly.
Rohr must markedly improve, both in tactics and team selection or exit the stage

So you are even dismissing the very foundation of this team now?
Kuku disband the whole team nah.

You have a whole batch of young, talented players in every department already in the SE equation, many brought in by Rohr himself and you say there's "no foundation"?

This is baffling.

On the contrary. I was careful to include "materials that can be reused" . The foundation don't necessarily mean personnel. It can mean the way the team is setup to play, the philosophy of the team. Get that wrong and your personnel will be wrong.

The likes of Akpeyi and a few others must go.

Pajimoh, the foundation of this team is intact and in fact, it is the one thing Rohr cannot be criticized of if anyone is being objective.

We have a young core group of disciplined players with a high level of professionalism, tactical organization minded identity. When was the last time we had players waltzing into camp late, bringing ashewos into camp or creating any scandal whatsoever?

Are the improvements to be made in key areas? Absolutely! Many criticized Uzoho after the WC, and Rohr decided to try a GK that has more playing time in Akpeyi. If clearly hasn't worked and our GK search still clearly isn't over. I am pretty sure he knows that.

If we need more attacking flair, then work with Rohr to get a Nigerian assistant that can not only learn from him but also help to combine his defensive rigidity with Nigerian attacking flair. We need a proper transition plan to be put into place so once Rohr leaves, we are not start from scratch. Its better than returning us to the dark days of the mid 2000s.

We have made significant progress. Let us build on that, not tear it down and start again. Instead build on it.

BTW, Its no shame to have been beaten than likely the best team in this tournament. Before this match, those of us that have been watching the games had expressed significant caution about Algeria. Other than the penalty we scored, that team had only conceded 1 goal to get to the finals.

Algeria are my favorites by far to win it all.

Again, the foundation of the team might not necessarily mean personnel change but philosophy of the team. Through that, you can get the best of the talents you have to perform at their optimum, in a style they are comfortable with.
A good example is Pochetino. All he did was change the philosophy of the team. Insist on giving your best regardless of selection and increased fitness level with a pressing game. Those who could not cope where sold and he looks for players with a certain profile for the team.
We cannot say because we have a young team, the foundation is there. We have the materials. The foundation is how they are structured in the team. Then they must improve their understanding and contribution to the team.
I look at the team of 1994. They had identity and philosophy. Once they get the ball, with "one touch" passing, they move with blinding speed into the opponents 18 before they could even set to defend. Once commentator even described it as "athletic" football.

Against Algeria, when we attack, before we get to their 18, they've had enough time to get 5 men behind the ball. We take too many touches a d too far apart from each other to effectively pass the ball and string passes together. It reflects on our overall possession stats.
Philosophy is very important and discernable style of play. I'm struggling to see it in this team.

That identity and philosophy we had in the 94 team didn't happen overnight PaJ. It took 5 years to build and nurture.
It also took an injection of talent that came from more experienced players playing better football with top European teams.
The process has started again with this team. See the improvement in Trost Ekong, Aina, Omeruo, Iwobi?
I doubt Etebo will be playing at Stokes or Awazeim at Rizespor this season.
And see the immense potential of Chukwueze who reminds me of a young Okocha that burst onto the scene in 1990.

Patience is the right course of action at this point. It is the only thing that has worked for us in the past, not changing coaches because we fail to win tournaments overnight.

I know the 1994 team's philosophy wasn't instilled overnight but by God you could already see the traits after 2 years. Then as soon as the likes of Yekini matured into the team and discovery of Finidi and Amuneke, the team exploded.
I've been a supporter of Rohr. He's conservative in his thinking and with the elderly, they stick to what they know and not the sign of the time.

After 2 years, we are a very average team. We never push on in tournaments. We were eliminated at the group stage of the WC. We came second in our group at this Afcon and we could possibly hope to get 3rd. So our improvement since the WC is a third place finish at AFCON, losing to Madagascar along the way.
So from our achievements so far, what is our next target at the next WC, get out of group stage and at AFCON, make the final or just qualify again?

Such baby steps in recurring cycle

[aruako1]

Preface: This thread is for thoughtful conversation and debate only. To the Rohr haters club, please kindly take a hike.
We already know your agenda.

Now the dust has settled and the emotion of our semi-final loss to Algeria is beginning to simmer, let us think logically.
You want to replace Rohr? Ok, Simple question,...with whom?

Provide your response and your reason why whomsoever you will select as his replacement will be guaranteed to do a better job.
Here are my reasons for extending Rohr's contract until the next WC qualifiers.

1. Continuity & Consistency
Nigeria has consistently improved under Gerhart Rohr. We have qualified for every tournament he has managed, and we have increasingly improved in terms of the results we have achieved.

It took 5 years for Clemens Westerhof to turn Nigeria into the powerhouse we remember today in 1994.
Many of you might forget but in 1990, Algeria beat us 5-1 in the group stage, then 1-0 in the CAF final.
This same Algeria beat us fair and square in 2019.

There is a little bit of a deja vu feeling with this team. The core have been to 2 major tournaments, and have in each, taken a step further than the last. Instead of rolling the dice, I would prefer to give consistency a go and see what we can do in 2022.

2. Easier to destroy than to build
Anyone can rip a team apart, can fire a coach. The question is, who knows the recipe of building a successful team? The road to success is not an easy one, not is it straight forward nor does it reap immediate rewards. It takes hard work, patience and perseverance. This team doesn't need a overhaul. It needs tweaking and improvement, and Rohr is in my opinion best placed to figure out what this is as he knows his team better than any of us..

A Semi-final finish in a competition that saw all I major rivals drop along the way (including the host), especially when you consider we haven't been to an AFCON since 2013, is a good result. We should build on this, not tear it down and start afresh, which is what a new coach will do.

From my POV, no case for keeping Rohr unless we've given up and let whatever, happen.
Continuity is only profitable if the foundation is good. Rohr has been in post for over 2 years and we still cannot see progress, other than we qualify for tournaments, other teams do that as well.
Yes it's easier to destroy than to build but it's futile to keep a faulty structure. Better to pull down, salvage any reusable materials and rebuild properly.

2022 is another 3 years away. Anymore of this ish for 3 years will see the SE regress badly.
Rohr must markedly improve, both in tactics and team selection or exit the stage

So you are even dismissing the very foundation of this team now?
Kuku disband the whole team nah.

You have a whole batch of young, talented players in every department already in the SE equation, many brought in by Rohr himself and you say there's "no foundation"?

This is baffling.

On the contrary. I was careful to include "materials that can be reused" . The foundation don't necessarily mean personnel. It can mean the way the team is setup to play, the philosophy of the team. Get that wrong and your personnel will be wrong.

The likes of Akpeyi and a few others must go.

Pajimoh, the foundation of this team is intact and in fact, it is the one thing Rohr cannot be criticized of if anyone is being objective.

We have a young core group of disciplined players with a high level of professionalism, tactical organization minded identity. When was the last time we had players waltzing into camp late, bringing ashewos into camp or creating any scandal whatsoever?

Are the improvements to be made in key areas? Absolutely! Many criticized Uzoho after the WC, and Rohr decided to try a GK that has more playing time in Akpeyi. If clearly hasn't worked and our GK search still clearly isn't over. I am pretty sure he knows that.

If we need more attacking flair, then work with Rohr to get a Nigerian assistant that can not only learn from him but also help to combine his defensive rigidity with Nigerian attacking flair. We need a proper transition plan to be put into place so once Rohr leaves, we are not start from scratch. Its better than returning us to the dark days of the mid 2000s.

We have made significant progress. Let us build on that, not tear it down and start again. Instead build on it.

BTW, Its no shame to have been beaten than likely the best team in this tournament. Before this match, those of us that have been watching the games had expressed significant caution about Algeria. Other than the penalty we scored, that team had only conceded 1 goal to get to the finals.

Algeria are my favorites by far to win it all.

Again, the foundation of the team might not necessarily mean personnel change but philosophy of the team. Through that, you can get the best of the talents you have to perform at their optimum, in a style they are comfortable with.
A good example is Pochetino. All he did was change the philosophy of the team. Insist on giving your best regardless of selection and increased fitness level with a pressing game. Those who could not cope where sold and he looks for players with a certain profile for the team.
We cannot say because we have a young team, the foundation is there. We have the materials. The foundation is how they are structured in the team. Then they must improve their understanding and contribution to the team.
I look at the team of 1994. They had identity and philosophy. Once they get the ball, with "one touch" passing, they move with blinding speed into the opponents 18 before they could even set to defend. Once commentator even described it as "athletic" football.

Against Algeria, when we attack, before we get to their 18, they've had enough time to get 5 men behind the ball. We take too many touches a d too far apart from each other to effectively pass the ball and string passes together. It reflects on our overall possession stats.
Philosophy is very important and discernable style of play. I'm struggling to see it in this team.

That identity and philosophy we had in the 94 team didn't happen overnight PaJimoh. It took 5 years to build and nurture.
It also took an injection of talent that came from more experienced players playing better football with top European teams.
The process has started again with this team. See the improvement in Trost Ekong, Aina, Omeruo, Iwobi?
I doubt Etebo will be playing at Stokes or Awazeim at Rizespor this season.
And see the immense potential of Chukwueze who reminds me of a young Okocha that burst onto the scene in 1990.

Patience is the right course of action at this point. It is the only thing that has worked for us in the past, not changing coaches because we fail to win tournaments overnight.

You are correct. However, in Westerhof's team, you could see the progression of the coach tactically. Our coach has continued with his stubborn, one-track approach, especially in attack. The team has become to nervous to attempt positive football except on the counter attack. The issue is whether we think he can improve the team's attacking play.

[Goalgetter]

This is what Pinnick said:
There are some people that have been calling on me and the federation to sack Gernot. But I am not going to do that. In fact, Gernot is going on a refresher training period with
@FCBayernEN
, after the #AFCON2019. We have a long-term plan with him.”

Source :

[aruako1]

This is what Pinnick said:
There are some people that have been calling on me and the federation to sack Gernot. But I am not going to do that. In fact, Gernot is going on a refresher training period with
@FCBayernEN
, after the #AFCON2019. We have a long-term plan with him.”

Source :

The dreaded vote of confidence.

[fabio]

Honestly, I don't really like to get involved in this Rohr debate, because it has become more emotional than logical, more idealist than pragmatic.

When articles are written with emotive language Continuity & Consistency, if you continue with a journey man, you will 'Continuity & Consistency' get a journey man's result. A Snake egg can never hatch to be a peacock.

Using Clemens Westerhof and Algeria'90 example is a strange one. Clemens Westerhof first attempt the AFCON was a final. Rohr first attempt was Semi- Final. This buries the illustration used.

Easier to destroy than to build Another emotive language why? This doesn't capture the history of when SE has done well in AFCON and WC. The times, when SE has performed well in the world stage (Tunisia ' 94, USA'94, AFCON '13, WC'14). The SE coaches lived and worked in Nigeria and they searched talents within Nigeria first and then look outside the shores of the country to complete was they have found at home (they probably only found 2 - 4 max players at home).

In Rohr case, he is only in the country 3 days before a match and out immediately after the match. In 3 years, I don't think Rohr has watched 10 NPL matches.

Pinnick vision of the SE is team with no home based players mainly FB and 2nd and 3rd generation of Nigerian heritage because they play abroad. We all remember the Tammy Abraham snub.

Rohr is a coach for a countries with little or no footballing success. His mentality is let's play within our means, let's not concede to many goals, let's restrict the opponent, my players don't play in big clubs and ECL, let's score a goal and close shop. This is the attitude that is displayed by the players on the field and it's a loser mentality.

I would be surprised if Rohr is sacked, I doubt Pinnick will do that. Tighten your seat belt and enjoy the Rohr journey until the next world cup.

[charlie]

I know the 1994 team's philosophy wasn't instilled overnight but by God you could already see the traits after 2 years. Then as soon as the likes of Yekini matured into the team and discovery of Finidi and Amuneke, the team exploded.
I've been a supporter of Rohr. He's conservative in his thinking and with the elderly, they stick to what they know and not the sign of the time.

After 2 years, we are a very average team. We never push on in tournaments. We were eliminated at the group stage of the WC. We came second in our group at this Afcon and we could possibly hope to get 3rd. So our improvement since the WC is a third place finish at AFCON, losing to Madagascar along the way.
So from our achievements so far, what is our next target at the next WC, get out of group stage and at AFCON, make the final or just qualify again?

Such baby steps in recurring cycle

I hear what you are saying about Rohr, and its hard to disagree about his lack of flexibility.
I was in my late teens/early 20s in the early 1990s, so I will not pretend to have the wisdom to fully understand our evolution into a great team.

However, I do remember that 2-1 loss to Ghana in the 1992 semi-finals still hurts, and I remember my dad and elder brother having this same debate we are having now.

My brother wanted Westerhof fired. My dad argued for patience.
Guess who won?

[fabio]

This is what Pinnick said:
There are some people that have been calling on me and the federation to sack Gernot. But I am not going to do that. In fact, Gernot is going on a refresher training period with
@FCBayernEN
, after the #AFCON2019. We have a long-term plan with him.”

Source :

Wetin I talk. A refresher course in Bayern. What is this refresher course? What does it entail? i don't even bother myself anymore.

[pajimoh]

I know the 1994 team's philosophy wasn't instilled overnight but by God you could already see the traits after 2 years. Then as soon as the likes of Yekini matured into the team and discovery of Finidi and Amuneke, the team exploded.
I've been a supporter of Rohr. He's conservative in his thinking and with the elderly, they stick to what they know and not the sign of the time.

After 2 years, we are a very average team. We never push on in tournaments. We were eliminated at the group stage of the WC. We came second in our group at this Afcon and we could possibly hope to get 3rd. So our improvement since the WC is a third place finish at AFCON, losing to Madagascar along the way.
So from our achievements so far, what is our next target at the next WC, get out of group stage and at AFCON, make the final or just qualify again?

Such baby steps in recurring cycle

I hear what you are saying about Rohr, and its hard to disagree about his lack of flexibility.
I was in my late teens/early 20s in the early 1990s, so I will not pretend to have the wisdom to fully understand our evolution into a great team.

However, I do remember that 2-1 loss to Ghana in the 1992 semi-finals still hurts, and I remember my dad and elder brother having this same debate we are having now.

My brother wanted Westerhof fired. My dad argued for patience.
Guess who won?

Oh yes, the 2-1 loss to Ghana hurts. Ghana is our biggest regional rival. But I put it to you that the 2-0 loss to Madagascar hurts more, at least it should. They do not have the pedigree of Ghana yet we folded before them like Allied carpet.

But more importantly is the uninspiring, no discernable style of football we are playing. It's an eyesore and a coronary inducer.

[charlie]

I know the 1994 team's philosophy wasn't instilled overnight but by God you could already see the traits after 2 years. Then as soon as the likes of Yekini matured into the team and discovery of Finidi and Amuneke, the team exploded.
I've been a supporter of Rohr. He's conservative in his thinking and with the elderly, they stick to what they know and not the sign of the time.

After 2 years, we are a very average team. We never push on in tournaments. We were eliminated at the group stage of the WC. We came second in our group at this Afcon and we could possibly hope to get 3rd. So our improvement since the WC is a third place finish at AFCON, losing to Madagascar along the way.
So from our achievements so far, what is our next target at the next WC, get out of group stage and at AFCON, make the final or just qualify again?

Such baby steps in recurring cycle

I hear what you are saying about Rohr, and its hard to disagree about his lack of flexibility.
I was in my late teens/early 20s in the early 1990s, so I will not pretend to have the wisdom to fully understand our evolution into a great team.

However, I do remember that 2-1 loss to Ghana in the 1992 semi-finals still hurts, and I remember my dad and elder brother having this same debate we are having now.

My brother wanted Westerhof fired. My dad argued for patience.
Guess who won?

Oh yes, the 2-1 loss to Ghana hurts. Ghana is our biggest regional rival. But I put it to you that the 2-0 loss to Madagascar hurts more, at least it should. They do not have the pedigree of Ghana yet we folded before them like Allied carpet.

But more importantly is the uninspiring, no discernable style of football we are playing. It's an eyesore and a coronary inducer.

Lets put the Madagascar game into proper context. We had already qualified and underestimated a hungry team.
It also helps when you gift them a goal from a defensive mistake and they benefit from a luck deflection. The Madagascar game doesn't hurt one bit for me, the same way losing to my son in a round of table tennis doesnt hurt because I didn't take him serious.

Play that game 9 times out of 10, you know whassup

Anyway sha, I have to leave for work. Peace!

[metalalloy]

Honestly, I don't really like to get involved in this Rohr debate, because it has become more emotional than logical, more idealist than pragmatic.

When articles are written with emotive language Continuity & Consistency, if you continue with a journey man, you will 'Continuity & Consistency' get a journey man's result. A Snake egg can never hatch to be a peacock.

Using Clemens Westerhof and Algeria'90 example is a strange one. Clemens Westerhof first attempt the AFCON was a final. Rohr first attempt was Semi- Final. This buries the illustration used.

Easier to destroy than to build Another emotive language why? This doesn't capture the history of when SE has done well in AFCON and WC. The times, when SE has performed well in the world stage (Tunisia ' 94, USA'94, AFCON '13, WC'14). The SE coaches lived and worked in Nigeria and they searched talents within Nigeria first and then look outside the shores of the country to complete was they have found at home (they probably only found 2 - 4 max players at home).

In Rohr case, he is only in the country 3 days before a match and out immediately after the match. In 3 years, I don't think Rohr has watched 10 NPL matches.

Pinnick vision of the SE is team with no home based players mainly FB and 2nd and 3rd generation of Nigerian heritage because they play abroad. We all remember the Tammy Abraham snub.

Rohr is a coach for a countries with little or no footballing success. His mentality is let's play within our means, let's not concede to many goals, let's restrict the opponent, my players don't play in big clubs and ECL, let's score a goal and close shop. This is the attitude that is displayed by the players on the field and it's a loser mentality.

I would be surprised if Rohr is sacked, I doubt Pinnick will do that. Tighten your seat belt and enjoy the Rohr journey until the next world cup.

If you want to play the cherry picking game, Clemens Westerhof's first act was to fail to qualify for Italia 90 while Rohr qualified for the World cup with a game to spare. Why didn't you use that illustration? They should have sent him packing right after that abi? Or after reaching the finals in Algeirs 90, he fell in the semis the next tournament. He certainly regressed and should have been sent packing as well right?

You see how disingenuous it can be to cherry pick what you want to fit the narrative you prefer?

[pajimoh]

I know the 1994 team's philosophy wasn't instilled overnight but by God you could already see the traits after 2 years. Then as soon as the likes of Yekini matured into the team and discovery of Finidi and Amuneke, the team exploded.
I've been a supporter of Rohr. He's conservative in his thinking and with the elderly, they stick to what they know and not the sign of the time.

After 2 years, we are a very average team. We never push on in tournaments. We were eliminated at the group stage of the WC. We came second in our group at this Afcon and we could possibly hope to get 3rd. So our improvement since the WC is a third place finish at AFCON, losing to Madagascar along the way.
So from our achievements so far, what is our next target at the next WC, get out of group stage and at AFCON, make the final or just qualify again?

Such baby steps in recurring cycle

I hear what you are saying about Rohr, and its hard to disagree about his lack of flexibility.
I was in my late teens/early 20s in the early 1990s, so I will not pretend to have the wisdom to fully understand our evolution into a great team.

However, I do remember that 2-1 loss to Ghana in the 1992 semi-finals still hurts, and I remember my dad and elder brother having this same debate we are having now.

My brother wanted Westerhof fired. My dad argued for patience.
Guess who won?

Oh yes, the 2-1 loss to Ghana hurts. Ghana is our biggest regional rival. But I put it to you that the 2-0 loss to Madagascar hurts more, at least it should. They do not have the pedigree of Ghana yet we folded before them like Allied carpet.

But more importantly is the uninspiring, no discernable style of football we are playing. It's an eyesore and a coronary inducer.

Lets put the Madagascar game into proper context. We had already qualified and underestimated a hungry team.
It also helps when you gift them a goal from a defensive mistake and they benefit from a luck deflection. The Madagascar game doesn't hurt one bit for me, the same way losing to my son in a round of table tennis doesnt hurt because I didn't take him serious.

Play that game 9 times out of 10, you know whassup

Anyway sha, I have to leave for work. Peace!

Again you're wrong. It's the proper context of the unserious when we make excuse that we've already qualified so it's ok to get shafted by Madagascar in such fashion.
What about pride? What about ranking? What about topping the group for a favourable route to the final?

I put it to you,again, the serious teams of this world will use games against teams like Madagascar to reinforce their dominance a d register a psychological message that "you're not on our level" so don't even think a out it.
It's a game the reserves, if they had any pride and desire, to prove to the coach that they are worthy of playing in the first 11.

My friend there is no context in that game other than we lost to a far superior African minnow. In fact we are saving face by claiming there's no value on the game.

[fabio]

If you want to play the cherry picking game, Clemens Westerhof's first act was to fail to qualify for Italia 90 while Rohr qualified for the World cup with a game to spare. Why didn't you use that illustration? They should have sent him packing right after that abi?

You see how disingenuous can be to cherry pick what you want to fit the narrative you prefer?

This is where the cherry picking starts....

If memory serves me right, Clemens Westerhof, replaced Hamilton (can't remember his full name).

Did Clemens Westerhof start the Italia 90 qualification series or was he brought in mid way or towards the tail end of the qualification series?

[metalalloy]

If you want to play the cherry picking game, Clemens Westerhof's first act was to fail to qualify for Italia 90 while Rohr qualified for the World cup with a game to spare. Why didn't you use that illustration? They should have sent him packing right after that abi?

You see how disingenuous can be to cherry pick what you want to fit the narrative you prefer?

This is where the cherry picking starts....

If memory serves me right, Clemens Westerhof, replaced Hamilton (can't remember his full name).

Did Clemens Westerhof start the Italia 90 qualification series or was he brought in mid way or towards the tail end of the qualification series?

Memory serves you right. Westerhof replaced Paul Hamilton who had defeated Cameroun in Ibadan. We needed a draw and, Westerhof and his team lost the return leg 1-0 in Yaounde. Whether he started qualification or not, the irrefutable fact is that he failed to qualify the country after he was hired to do exactly that.

The point being made is not to blame Westerhof for that failure, but to point out that cherry picking facts to fit a narrative is wrong.

[cchinukw]

Nigerians have been patient with Rohr and would have been prepared to be more patient if there were sogns that the team could be more creative in attack. Being a defensive team should not mean that you are hopeless when it comes to creating chances. Amodu, for instance, focused on strong defensive performances but his teams could score and create chances as well. Rohr's tactical rigidity so far is not encouraging. My own take is that we see what he does in our games until December and make a call. If we keep seeing the same from him then we have to find someone new.

I couldn't find anything to add.

In other words, a massive KPOMEST!

[metalalloy]

Nigerians have been patient with Rohr and would have been prepared to be more patient if there were sogns that the team could be more creative in attack. Being a defensive team should not mean that you are hopeless when it comes to creating chances. Amodu, for instance, focused on strong defensive performances but his teams could score and create chances as well. Rohr's tactical rigidity so far is not encouraging. My own take is that we see what he does in our games until December and make a call. If we keep seeing the same from him then we have to find someone new.

With the exception of the highlighted as I recall Amodu being pilloried on this pages for playing a staid game where we were winning by 1 goal margins, I agree with this post.

[wanaj0]

Others can do the job at a cheaper cost to Rohr

[ohenhen1]

Pinnick is dellusional if he thinks Rohr has a future. He either makes the decision or we remove him and Rohr.

[metalalloy]

Others can do the job at a cheaper cost to Rohr

[aruako1]

Nigerians have been patient with Rohr and would have been prepared to be more patient if there were sogns that the team could be more creative in attack. Being a defensive team should not mean that you are hopeless when it comes to creating chances. Amodu, for instance, focused on strong defensive performances but his teams could score and create chances as well. Rohr's tactical rigidity so far is not encouraging. My own take is that we see what he does in our games until December and make a call. If we keep seeing the same from him then we have to find someone new.

With the exception of the highlighted as I recall Amodu being pilloried on this pages for playing a staid game where we were winning by 1 goal margins, I agree with this post.

Check his record in the 2002 WC qualifiers after he took over from Bonfere Jo. Amodu's teams were not always 1-0 teams.

[metalalloy]

Nigerians have been patient with Rohr and would have been prepared to be more patient if there were sogns that the team could be more creative in attack. Being a defensive team should not mean that you are hopeless when it comes to creating chances. Amodu, for instance, focused on strong defensive performances but his teams could score and create chances as well. Rohr's tactical rigidity so far is not encouraging. My own take is that we see what he does in our games until December and make a call. If we keep seeing the same from him then we have to find someone new.

With the exception of the highlighted as I recall Amodu being pilloried on this pages for playing a staid game where we were winning by 1 goal margins, I agree with this post.

Check his record in the 2002 WC qualifiers after he took over from Bonfere Jo. Amodu's teams were not always 1-0 teams.

While his teams were not always 1-0 teams, they were quite a few times especially in his later rescue jobs particularly around 2008 period. The 2010 qualifiers, his teams scored more than 2 goals once in the first stage and beat the likes of Sierra Leone, Equatorial Guinea and South Africa by 1-0 score lines. Second stage he tied Mozambique and Tunisia 0-0, beat Mozambique 1-0.

In pre 2010 world cup friendly matches he tied Austria and Ireland 1-1, tied Jamaica 0-0, beat France 1-0 and lost 1-0 to Columbia.

So yes, although Amodu had a pretty good record with Nigeria and hardly lost games, he also hardly beat teams by more than single goal margins.

[aruako1]

Nigerians have been patient with Rohr and would have been prepared to be more patient if there were sogns that the team could be more creative in attack. Being a defensive team should not mean that you are hopeless when it comes to creating chances. Amodu, for instance, focused on strong defensive performances but his teams could score and create chances as well. Rohr's tactical rigidity so far is not encouraging. My own take is that we see what he does in our games until December and make a call. If we keep seeing the same from him then we have to find someone new.

With the exception of the highlighted as I recall Amodu being pilloried on this pages for playing a staid game where we were winning by 1 goal margins, I agree with this post.

Check his record in the 2002 WC qualifiers after he took over from Bonfere Jo. Amodu's teams were not always 1-0 teams.

While his teams were not always 1-0 teams, they were quite a few times especially in the latter rescue jobs especially around 2008 period. The 2010 qualifiers, his teams scored more than 2 goals once in the first state and beat the likes of Sierra Leone, Equatorial Guinea and South Africa by 1-0 score lines. Second stage he tied Mozambique and Tunisia 0-0, beat Mozambique 1-0.

In pre 2010 world cup friendly matches he tied Austria and Ireland 1-1, tied Jamaica 0-0, beat France 1-0 and lost 1-0 to Columbia.

So yes, although Amodu had a pretty good record with Nigeria and hardly lost games, he also hardly beat teams by more than single goal margins.

Our positions are not as divergent as you think. Amodu's teams could attack when they needed to. He had the ability to change the shape of his team to attack even though he relied more on his defensive abilities.