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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:05 pm 
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Zelex wrote:
Cellular wrote:
Zelex wrote:
Cellular wrote:
Zelex wrote:
naijaguy wrote:
No need for all these long statistics. It's simple.. Forget friendlies.

All competitive games we played with the light green jersey, we won. All the competitive matches we played with the DG, we lost. Lmao..we lost to Madagascar...2-0.
Get rid of the Jersey.


Correction. Nigeria defeated Libya in the DG jersey. Lost to Croatia (WC 2018 finalist), Argentina (who have beaten Nigeria not matter the jersey colour, remember 2002 was LG jersey), Algeria (who most odd-makers had as favourites). Madagascar is the only game that went against the form books. Maybe it's just me but find it difficult to make a definite conclusion on jersey colour based on 5 competitive games... :?


How were Algeria favorites? Even if they were favorites it was because of how Naijaria was playing. Algeria was not even in the top 10 in Africa.

Funny how you said Argentina would have beaten Naijaria? Argentina won ONE game at the World Cup. And they won it because our coach does know how to kill off a team. Had us not reacting to the changes by Argentina.


Do you know that going into the R16, Nigeria were ranked 5th by odd-makers? Algeria were 3rd, most media outlets favoured Algeria (maybe except Nigerians) against the SE. The form book suggested an Algeria win. We have to look at ranking with context (alongside form, odds etc). Just like how Nigeria were favourites against Tunisia despite being 20 places below them in the FIFA ranking. Rankings are good starting point though.

Argentina were still favourites against Nigeria regardless. It was an expected result. Nigeria lost 1-0 to an Argentina team in the 2002 WC that only won 1 game and were eliminated in the group stages, this despite Rohr not being the manager ooo.


The more reason why we can't reduce our odds even more by wearing a Jersey we considered unlucky. It is not a new phenomenon. In the US, in the NFC East, teams try to get the Cowboys to wear their Blue jerseys because they lose more games than they win wearing that jersey. Call it superstition but there's superstition in sports. It is sorta kinda psychological. The way the Cameroon and SA game went, I am convinced that had we worn the Green jersey they might have found a way to beat us. That was how close the game seemed. Just saying... :D

Even the game against Algeria, I would have liked our odds if we had won our lucky white stripes. :D :P


You definitely have a point there. I can't rule that out, whilst I'm not convinced about the "scientific" angle. I think it has reached a stage were the superstition is now feeding into the psychological aspect. I see comments about the DG jersey colour all over social media. I know for sure our players would have read them.
Yes, both superstition and real factual evidence can feed into the psychological. Loads of the world's top players have their superstitions which drive their pre-match rituals which they absolutely have to perform to get themselves in the right frame of mind for the game.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:15 pm 
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This is the most relevant part of the post that i have always been concerned :

" Personally, I think dark-skinned players (ie blacks) in dark strips on green grass is a handicap because there's no 'contrast'."

If any one has played competitive football 11 vs 11 in day time and night time they will know if the opponents jerseys are similar it creates a problem with some misplaced passes , defensive or attacking movements or covering because you may mistake an opponent for your team mate in making split seconds decisions from corner of eye especially in pressure situations or when fatigue begin come.

Also in making a split second decision you may miss you team mate, miscalculate a pass because of the dark coloured jersey's blending with the grass or missing it because of a shield in front of team mate by your opponents.

In Summary we go need to add some bright colour or change our dark green jerseys.
The current colour does more Damage than Good.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:18 pm 
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Cellular wrote:
Zelex wrote:
naijaguy wrote:
No need for all these long statistics. It's simple.. Forget friendlies.

All competitive games we played with the light green jersey, we won. All the competitive matches we played with the DG, we lost. Lmao..we lost to Madagascar...2-0.
Get rid of the Jersey.


Correction. Nigeria defeated Libya in the DG jersey. Lost to Croatia (WC 2018 finalist), Argentina (who have beaten Nigeria not matter the jersey colour, remember 2002 was LG jersey), Algeria (who most odd-makers had as favourites). Madagascar is the only game that went against the form books. Maybe it's just me but find it difficult to make a definite conclusion on jersey colour based on 5 competitive games... :?


How were Algeria favorites? Even if they were favorites it was because of how Naijaria was playing. Algeria was not even in the top 10 in Africa.

Funny how you said Argentina would have beaten Naijaria? Argentina won ONE game at the World Cup. And they won it because our coach does know how to kill off a team. Had us not reacting to the changes by Argentina
.

so would our coach have done the same thing, regardless of jersey?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:28 am 
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Update.
Image

Image

Note:
Ignore the double entry for Ukraine. It is a formatting error but only the one result came into the calculations.

My Observation:
The starkest thing that strikes me is our performance on neutral grounds in the dark jersey compared to in the bright jersey.
We've played eight games in each but notice the stark difference in performance outcomes.

There are other interesting patterns too but the general conclusion can be reached that we seem to play worse in the dark jerseys overall. However, though the numbers might be statistically insignificant, we have won ALL our FOUR games in dark green on home and away grounds.

I am happy for anyone to give their own interpretation of the stats but it seems to me that there might be something worth exploring.

If I had the time I would explore the results going as far back as ten years and also look into the Super Falcons and even the U20 teams.

Personally I think it is probably down to
a) The psychological (conscious and unconscious) and
b) The issue of 'peripheral vision'.

In elite sports, the difference between success and failure can be down to very tiny margins.

Disclaimer: To the Anti-Rohr Brigade.
NO. I am not "looking for excuses".
I am simply exploring the popular sentiment that we don't perform as well in our dark jerseys.
Not everything has to be Trumpian politics.
I simply find the subject matter fascinating. :taunt:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:03 pm 
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Dark Green Neutral Site losses : Argentina, Algeria, Madagascar, Czech republic, Croatia, Senegal (I only counted 6 on the table)

Light Green Neutral Wins : Iceland, Tunisia, South Africa, Cameroun , Guinea, Burundi

The Madagascar result may be the only surprising one of the bunch...

It also appears that Home/Away designations in FIFA tournaments is based on who is listed first in the match/game billing ie in Nigeria vs Argentina , Nigeria would be the home team, and in Argentina vs Nigeria, Nigeria would be the away team.
Is it then possible that the stronger or higher ranked team would usually be the home team in a FIFA tournament? If thats the case, then the mystery of the "bad luck" dark green may have been solved

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:46 pm 
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Zelex wrote:
naijaguy wrote:
No need for all these long statistics. It's simple.. Forget friendlies.

All competitive games we played with the light green jersey, we won. All the competitive matches we played with the DG, we lost. Lmao..we lost to Madagascar...2-0.
Get rid of the Jersey.


Correction. Nigeria defeated Libya in the DG jersey. Lost to Croatia (WC 2018 finalist), Argentina (who have beaten Nigeria not matter the jersey colour, remember 2002 was LG jersey), Algeria (who most odd-makers had as favourites). Madagascar is the only game that went against the form books. Maybe it's just me but find it difficult to make a definite conclusion on jersey colour based on 5 competitive games... :?


We have never played a competitive game against Argentina wearing white. And maybe the LG jersey worn in 2002 saved us from a 3-0 scoreline or worse :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:28 pm 
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Scipio Africanus wrote:
Zelex wrote:
naijaguy wrote:
No need for all these long statistics. It's simple.. Forget friendlies.

All competitive games we played with the light green jersey, we won. All the competitive matches we played with the DG, we lost. Lmao..we lost to Madagascar...2-0.
Get rid of the Jersey.


Correction. Nigeria defeated Libya in the DG jersey. Lost to Croatia (WC 2018 finalist), Argentina (who have beaten Nigeria not matter the jersey colour, remember 2002 was LG jersey), Algeria (who most odd-makers had as favourites). Madagascar is the only game that went against the form books. Maybe it's just me but find it difficult to make a definite conclusion on jersey colour based on 5 competitive games... :?


We have never played a competitive game against Argentina wearing white. And maybe the LG jersey worn in 2002 saved us from a 3-0 scoreline or worse :mrgreen:
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
This is why ideally, the research should go as far back as possible.

I don't think the theory that dark colours on dark-skinned players might have an adverse albeit marginal effect on performance should be dismissed so readily.
It might be a combination of factors, but for those laughing, the joke might ultimately be on them.

Its funny, but those that like to identify WOWOs left and right, seem to be the people that are laughing and will only consider it worth considering if oyibo comse up with the research findings. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:33 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
Scipio Africanus wrote:
Zelex wrote:
naijaguy wrote:
No need for all these long statistics. It's simple.. Forget friendlies.

All competitive games we played with the light green jersey, we won. All the competitive matches we played with the DG, we lost. Lmao..we lost to Madagascar...2-0.
Get rid of the Jersey.


Correction. Nigeria defeated Libya in the DG jersey. Lost to Croatia (WC 2018 finalist), Argentina (who have beaten Nigeria not matter the jersey colour, remember 2002 was LG jersey), Algeria (who most odd-makers had as favourites). Madagascar is the only game that went against the form books. Maybe it's just me but find it difficult to make a definite conclusion on jersey colour based on 5 competitive games... :?


We have never played a competitive game against Argentina wearing white. And maybe the LG jersey worn in 2002 saved us from a 3-0 scoreline or worse :mrgreen:
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
This is why ideally, the research should go as far back as possible.

I don't think the theory that dark colours on dark-skinned players might have an adverse albeit marginal effect on performance should be dismissed so readily.
It might be a combination of factors, but for those laughing, the joke might ultimately be on them.
Its funny, but those that like to identify WOWOs left and right, seem to be the people that are laughing and will only consider it worth considering if oyibo comse up with the research findings. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:


Thanks BTW for the extensive work you did on this issue. :clap: :clap: Besides the contrast issues with the dark green color, how about other issues like effect of the color on the mood of players? I know what effect that dark green color has on my mood when I see it, let alone watch us playing with it, and it ain't a good one. 8-)

Anyway, I will borrow your numbers and try to do another kind of statistical analysis.

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Upon say I get sense
Poverty no good at all o
Na him make I join dis business

- Osuofia - I Go Chop Your Dollar

Sinequanon - AKA shanequa - The autistic crybaby troll of CE. Whaaaa! Ah ain't talkin' to you no mo' cuz you hoit ma feelens :lol:


Last edited by Scipio Africanus on Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:36 pm 
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nanijoe wrote:
Dark Green Neutral Site losses : Argentina, Algeria, Madagascar, Czech republic, Croatia, Senegal (I only counted 6 on the table)
We lost both times to Algeria in dark jerseys (AFCON s/final and 2 days ago).
You've counted only one of them.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:42 pm 
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Scipio Africanus wrote:
Damunk wrote:
Scipio Africanus wrote:
Zelex wrote:
naijaguy wrote:
No need for all these long statistics. It's simple.. Forget friendlies.

All competitive games we played with the light green jersey, we won. All the competitive matches we played with the DG, we lost. Lmao..we lost to Madagascar...2-0.
Get rid of the Jersey.


Correction. Nigeria defeated Libya in the DG jersey. Lost to Croatia (WC 2018 finalist), Argentina (who have beaten Nigeria not matter the jersey colour, remember 2002 was LG jersey), Algeria (who most odd-makers had as favourites). Madagascar is the only game that went against the form books. Maybe it's just me but find it difficult to make a definite conclusion on jersey colour based on 5 competitive games... :?


We have never played a competitive game against Argentina wearing white. And maybe the LG jersey worn in 2002 saved us from a 3-0 scoreline or worse :mrgreen:
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
This is why ideally, the research should go as far back as possible.

I don't think the theory that dark colours on dark-skinned players might have an adverse albeit marginal effect on performance should be dismissed so readily.
It might be a combination of factors, but for those laughing, the joke might ultimately be on them.
Its funny, but those that like to identify WOWOs left and right, seem to be the people that are laughing and will only consider it worth considering if oyibo comse up with the research findings. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:


Thanks BTW for the extensive work you did on this issue. :clap: :clap: Besides the contrast issues with the dark green color, how about other issues like effect of the color on the mood of players? I know what effect that dark green color has on my mood when I see it, let alone watch us playing with it, and it ain't a good one. 8-)

Anyway, I will borrow your numbers and try to do another kind of statistical analysis.
Please do.
The more the merrier. :thumb:
Who knows, we could present the findings to Nike or even FIFA if the numbers are big enough and the findings significant enough.

As for mood, you are spot on.
What we wear at any given time has an effect on our moods and how we feel about ourselves.
It is not rocket science.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:48 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
Damunk wrote:
Like I've said before, these figures provided are just a summary of a wider breakdown which is ongoing.

The breakdown looks at key variables such as venue (Home, Away, Neutral), nature of games (friendly, competitive), type of tournament (WC, AFCON, AFCON qualifier), Opponent(s) and game dates. So it is simply to provide the raw data for everyone to look at and analyse in any way they deem fit. Nothing emotional or subjective about it.

I am not a statistician but sure know how to collate relevant raw data. Things like 'margin of error', 'statistically significant numbers' etc are not for me to determine.
Please feel free to reach your own conclusions. If you feel there is nothing in it, that's fine. If you feel the only way you can interpret the figures is that the jersey is 'jinxed' that's fine too.

I'm only compiling figures because there might be more to it than "meets the eye", pun intended. A good point made by Leaf which is close to my line of thinking was,
Leaf wrote:
"...but I still believe we need to dump green on green uni on green grass. Teams wearing contrasting colors have the advantage in the peripheral vision department"

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=296067&p=5472235
Personally, I think dark-skinned players (ie blacks) in dark strips on green grass is a handicap because there's no 'contrast'. But a wider study might reveal more. I doubt whether any studies have been done on this anywhere.

Anyway, here's the breakdown for the Super Eagles since they first donned the new Nike jersey last year.
Like I've said many times, I don't think its about the Nike jersey in particular, but more about wearing dark green strips in general and whether it can be shown to have had an effect on performance on all our teams over the years.

Image
Image

We're looking at the Super Falcons next, followed by our other national teams.


Damunk,

Great post. Instead if speculating, we now have data to dissect.

The data would still be independent of anything; you still would have to have a valid indisputable no speculative association of the data to SE results. You do this by presenting any other team team from another country Besides Nigeria with same exact data & result Otherwise it would vodoo talk

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:55 pm 
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There is no question in my mind that in a game based on quick decision making, jersey colors matter. While their importance run the risk of being overstated (i.e. wearing the right colors cannot give Kenya victory over Germany), on the margin and between teams of similar capabilities, they could give an edge.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:27 am 
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deanotito wrote:
There is no question in my mind that in a game based on quick decision making, jersey colors matter. While their importance run the risk of being overstated (i.e. wearing the right colors cannot give Kenya victory over Germany), on the margin and between teams of similar capabilities, they could give an edge.
Excellent point and I believe you (or someone else) has said this before.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:30 am 
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jette1 wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Damunk wrote:
Like I've said before, these figures provided are just a summary of a wider breakdown which is ongoing.

The breakdown looks at key variables such as venue (Home, Away, Neutral), nature of games (friendly, competitive), type of tournament (WC, AFCON, AFCON qualifier), Opponent(s) and game dates. So it is simply to provide the raw data for everyone to look at and analyse in any way they deem fit. Nothing emotional or subjective about it.

I am not a statistician but sure know how to collate relevant raw data. Things like 'margin of error', 'statistically significant numbers' etc are not for me to determine.
Please feel free to reach your own conclusions. If you feel there is nothing in it, that's fine. If you feel the only way you can interpret the figures is that the jersey is 'jinxed' that's fine too.

I'm only compiling figures because there might be more to it than "meets the eye", pun intended. A good point made by Leaf which is close to my line of thinking was,
Leaf wrote:
"...but I still believe we need to dump green on green uni on green grass. Teams wearing contrasting colors have the advantage in the peripheral vision department"

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=296067&p=5472235
Personally, I think dark-skinned players (ie blacks) in dark strips on green grass is a handicap because there's no 'contrast'. But a wider study might reveal more. I doubt whether any studies have been done on this anywhere.

Anyway, here's the breakdown for the Super Eagles since they first donned the new Nike jersey last year.
Like I've said many times, I don't think its about the Nike jersey in particular, but more about wearing dark green strips in general and whether it can be shown to have had an effect on performance on all our teams over the years.

Image
Image

We're looking at the Super Falcons next, followed by our other national teams.


Damunk,

Great post. Instead if speculating, we now have data to dissect.

The data would still be independent of anything; you still would have to have a valid indisputable no speculative association of the data to SE results. You do this by presenting any other team team from another country Besides Nigeria with same exact data & result Otherwise it would vodoo talk
That goes without saying.
But we have started from home because that is what triggered the curiosity.

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