Nigerian Football in Dire Straits...

[Gotti]

So we did not qualify for the Olympics? Kai! Rohr's fault.

Yep! When Rohr showed up at the team’s camp in Egypt, LOLLY predicted problems ahead...

[Gotti]

Let me remind you about the recent success of England youth teams that has translated into the senior team now being a genuine contender for EURO and WC titles. England never took youth tournament serious until Southgate brought the change when he was managing the youth teams. Now we are seeing the result.

The truth is what we are seeing with our youth teams would start to reflect in the senior team in a few years time. The conveyor belt is slowly drying up and i believe the biggest issue is the million and one "academies" that park these boys without allowing them access to proper and structured training. There are only a few academies or clubs in Nigeria that have it. Look at our recent U20 keeper at the WC who is still with an academy, old man like that. So it is now a case of which agent has the most access to the coach. Just look at the recent U17 team and see the number of academies that supplied the players. Unless we are going to focus on foreign born players only, we would soon be left with a lot of "skilful" footballers with very low footballing IQ. The signs are not good. Just look at how sleek and composed all our opponents in recent youth matches have been. We used to play like that but not anymore.

England’s football must thus be in even WORSE than “dire straits”....
Since England did not even qualify for either the U20 or U17 WCs after starting to take it serious!

[Gotti]

Let me remind you about the recent success of England youth teams that has translated into the senior team now being a genuine contender for EURO and WC titles. England never took youth tournament serious until Southgate brought the change when he was managing the youth teams. Now we are seeing the result.

The truth is what we are seeing with our youth teams would start to reflect in the senior team in a few years time. The conveyor belt is slowly drying up and i believe the biggest issue is the million and one "academies" that park these boys without allowing them access to proper and structured training. There are only a few academies or clubs in Nigeria that have it. Look at our recent U20 keeper at the WC who is still with an academy, old man like that. So it is now a case of which agent has the most access to the coach. Just look at the recent U17 team and see the number of academies that supplied the players. Unless we are going to focus on foreign born players only, we would soon be left with a lot of "skilful" footballers with very low footballing IQ. The signs are not good. Just look at how sleek and composed all our opponents in recent youth matches have been. We used to play like that but not anymore.

And yet the reserve GK Detan Ogundare with Kogi United couldn’t displace him....faulty premise, flawed conclusion

You know which youth players were in Nigerian academies before emigrating? Wilfred Ndidi, Sam Chukwueze, Victor Osimhen, Kenneth Omeruo, Kelechi Iheanacho, Francis Uzoho, Isaac Success, Samuel Kalu, Simon Moses, Mikel Agu, Ramon Azeez, etc. In other words, just about every member of the current Super Eagles not born abroad.

[Gotti]

Now that Nigeria has been unceremoniously dumped out of the last competition for the year (i.e. qualification for the Olympics), allow me to vent/ reflect on my frustrations as a fan of Nigerian football:

Incompetent Coaches
One has to question how some individuals happened to find their way onto the Nigerian bench as part of the coaching staff, and I mean at all levels? What is the criterion for selecting a National team coach?
How do riff-raffs like Amanpakabo or Aigbogun happen to be tasked with such huge responsibilities that directly impact our footballing future? It is clear these guys are GROSSLY incompetent and should have been NOWWHERE near the helm of affairs under ANY circumstance. This directly points to the ongoing corrupt practices under the Pinnick regime, where favors are granted to those who ‘tow the line’. The same argument could be said about our Female team, where the daft Bala Nkiyu and the incompetent Christopher Danjuma led us to pitiful world cup outings, where his reward was a promotion to head the Super Falcons.

how are they riff-raffs?

Chief, I was about to guess because they carry Nigerian passports...
But that can’t be since Aigbogun carries a British pali and has even coached in England.
>

[Lolly]

Let me remind you about the recent success of England youth teams that has translated into the senior team now being a genuine contender for EURO and WC titles. England never took youth tournament serious until Southgate brought the change when he was managing the youth teams. Now we are seeing the result.

The truth is what we are seeing with our youth teams would start to reflect in the senior team in a few years time. The conveyor belt is slowly drying up and i believe the biggest issue is the million and one "academies" that park these boys without allowing them access to proper and structured training. There are only a few academies or clubs in Nigeria that have it. Look at our recent U20 keeper at the WC who is still with an academy, old man like that. So it is now a case of which agent has the most access to the coach. Just look at the recent U17 team and see the number of academies that supplied the players. Unless we are going to focus on foreign born players only, we would soon be left with a lot of "skilful" footballers with very low footballing IQ. The signs are not good. Just look at how sleek and composed all our opponents in recent youth matches have been. We used to play like that but not anymore.

England’s football must thus be in even WORSE than “dire straits”....
Since England did not even qualify for either the U20 or U17 WCs after starting to take it serious!

To you, qualification is a measure of how good a team is when you know other factors can make it easy for a poor team to qualify in a weak group and a very good team to miss out in a stronger group.

For me the style of play and the quality of players on display is equally or even more important. This year’s tournaments and including the U20 WC, our players have been very poor and the quality of football even worse. That is what I am upset about.

[Lolly]

Let me remind you about the recent success of England youth teams that has translated into the senior team now being a genuine contender for EURO and WC titles. England never took youth tournament serious until Southgate brought the change when he was managing the youth teams. Now we are seeing the result.

The truth is what we are seeing with our youth teams would start to reflect in the senior team in a few years time. The conveyor belt is slowly drying up and i believe the biggest issue is the million and one "academies" that park these boys without allowing them access to proper and structured training. There are only a few academies or clubs in Nigeria that have it. Look at our recent U20 keeper at the WC who is still with an academy, old man like that. So it is now a case of which agent has the most access to the coach. Just look at the recent U17 team and see the number of academies that supplied the players. Unless we are going to focus on foreign born players only, we would soon be left with a lot of "skilful" footballers with very low footballing IQ. The signs are not good. Just look at how sleek and composed all our opponents in recent youth matches have been. We used to play like that but not anymore.

And yet the reserve GK Detan Ogundare with Kogi United couldn’t displace him....faulty premise, flawed conclusion

You know which youth players were in Nigerian academies before emigrating? Wilfred Ndidi, Sam Chukwueze, Victor Osimhen, Kenneth Omeruo, Kelechi Iheanacho, Francis Uzoho, Isaac Success, Samuel Kalu, Simon Moses, Mikel Agu, Ramon Azeez, etc. In other words, just about every member of the current Super Eagles not born abroad.

Read my post again.

How can a national team under 20 player be playing for an academy that does not play in any form of league? Especially one that is obviously overage? How can the reserve keeper who is a club player displace him when the coach picked the obviously overage player for a reason? You can pretend if you like.

The issue is not about players coming from academies. The academies need to be regulated and a structure put in place e.g. some form of amateur league. Some academies are good, while most are bad. They offer nothing other than an avenue for some financier to profit from the sale of a small boy to a foreign club. And th national teams are the marketing window. Since the NFF decided not to select league players for the U17 teams, all manner of players have now been parked in academies while their agents go about lobbying for them to get selected for the National U17 teams. We need these players to be in a structured training environment where they will be getting proper football education.

[Gotti]

Read my post again.

How can a national team under 20 player be playing for an academy that does not play in any form of league? Especially one that is obviously overage? How can the reserve keeper who is a club player displace him when the coach picked the obviously overage player for a reason? You can pretend if you like.

The issue is not about players coming from academies. The academies need to be regulated and a structure put in place e.g. some form of amateur league. Some academies are good, while most are bad. They offer nothing other than an avenue for some financier to profit from the sale of a small boy to a foreign club. And th national teams are the marketing window. Since the NFF decided not to select league players for the U17 teams, all manner of players have now been parked in academies while their agents go about lobbying for them to get selected for the National U17 teams. We need these players to be in a structured training environment where they will be getting proper football education.

Sorry but I pass on the intellectually-lazy argument...

I do not know the dude’s real age (and I am reasonably certain that neither do you), so I am not even going to begin to bother with discussing it. But it’s an intellectually-lazy argument that in no way substantively justifies the argument that you had set out making.

[Gotti]

To you, qualification is a measure of how good a team is when you know other factors can make it easy for a poor team to qualify in a weak group and a very good team to miss out in a stronger group.

For me the style of play and the quality of players on display is equally or even more important. This year’s tournaments and including the U20 WC, our players have been very poor and the quality of football even worse. That is what I am upset about.

Huh?!

What does that have to do with anything?
The comparison is between the England teams of 2017 and of 2019.

The England teams of 2017 qualified from pretty much the same UEFA pool that the 2019 teams failed to do.
Accordingly, going by the tortured logic starting this thread, England must be in WORSE than “dire straits” even after taking these ‘seriously’!

[Gotti]

Another kid going from a Nigerian academy to La Liga, U20’s Makanjuola...

[Sir V]

So we did not qualify for the Olympics? Kai! Rohr's fault.

Yep! When Rohr showed up at the team’s camp in Egypt, LOLLY predicted problems ahead...

[txj]

Let me remind you about the recent success of England youth teams that has translated into the senior team now being a genuine contender for EURO and WC titles. England never took youth tournament serious until Southgate brought the change when he was managing the youth teams. Now we are seeing the result.

The truth is what we are seeing with our youth teams would start to reflect in the senior team in a few years time. The conveyor belt is slowly drying up and i believe the biggest issue is the million and one "academies" that park these boys without allowing them access to proper and structured training. There are only a few academies or clubs in Nigeria that have it. Look at our recent U20 keeper at the WC who is still with an academy, old man like that. So it is now a case of which agent has the most access to the coach. Just look at the recent U17 team and see the number of academies that supplied the players. Unless we are going to focus on foreign born players only, we would soon be left with a lot of "skilful" footballers with very low footballing IQ. The signs are not good. Just look at how sleek and composed all our opponents in recent youth matches have been. We used to play like that but not anymore.

England’s football must thus be in even WORSE than “dire straits”....
Since England did not even qualify for either the U20 or U17 WCs after starting to take it serious!

What has that got to do with anything about the progress England is making?

Is the end merely qualifying and/or winning the youth tournaments as opposed to developing players?

How can anyone look at the quality of young players emerging for England and make the statement above!!!

Seriously...

[txj]

Tournaments Nigeria QUALIFIED for (or won) in the past year...

2018 WC
2019 WWC
2019 U20 WC
2018 U20 WWC
2019 U17 WC
2019 AFCON
2018 AWCON (won)
2019 W WAFU (won)
2019 AAG W (won)
2019 AAG M (silver)
2019 U20 AFCON
2019 U23 AFCON
2019 U17 AFCON
2019 U17 WAFU (won)

Yes, our football has really gone to the dogs! PERSPECTIVE folks!!

Doesn't mean that our football is not in dire straits...

Just look at:

- our clubs,
- our league
- the quality of young players coming thru

[Gotti]

What has that got to do with anything about the progress England is making?

Is the end merely qualifying and/or winning the youth tournaments as opposed to developing players?

How can anyone look at the quality of young players emerging for England and make the statement above!!!

Seriously...

The basis of the discussion is stated in the very first line...
To wit: “Now that Nigeria has been unceremoniously dumped out of the last competition...blah, blah, blah”.

Let’s look at the quality of players that we have been “developing” recently...
Ndidi, Osimhen, Chukwueze, Kalu, Awaziem, Omeruo, Kingsley Michael, Ejuke, etc.

Quality (as opposed to potential) of players is substantively a retrospective determination...
The likes of Jermaine Pennant, Jack Butland, etc. were once considered top quality youth players.

[Gotti]

Doesn't mean that our football is not in dire straits...

Just look at:

- our clubs,
- our league
- the quality of young players coming thru

As opposed to when our clubs used to regularly win continental and world club trophies?

See one of my initial responses above, because when folks start to blather on about our football CURRENTLY being in “dire straits” then the primary response is contextual, as in as opposed to when. Nigerian clubs have won a grand total of 2 titles out of the 55 years of the premier continental cup competition (and 4 out of over 40+ of the second-tier competition).

Some folks are slow to get that the world has changed, and thus just as the Bosnian Rule changed European football forever, Globalization has changed ours and our league. Nonetheless, the REALITY is that in terms of global and continental competitions qualified for (and won), the number of youth players successfully transitioning into the senior, etc., we are THRIVING!

Even realizing that old folks live in a land called Nostalgia, the MEASURABLE indices are clear!

[oloye]

Otitokoro
Haba calling Imama riff raff coach I think does a great injustice to your write up. There are so many factors that would make a team to flounder like we did, other than the coach. Imama earned his stripes, so I cannot understand why you would call him a riff raff. If you believe that a coach who won the league is a riff raff, Hmmm it will be difficult to engage you in any debate, because my next question to you will be, what better criteria is there to use to assess the ability of a coach that is going to be saddled with the job of coaching a national team that would be formed largely by players plying their trade on the local scene.

In my humble opinion, I think we were careless with the preparations for this team. It had struggled in matches in the past and we have had to draft in firepower from abroad... The signs were there we just failed to address it. I don't want to go into the issue of a league that does not appear to be serving any purpose....

But please Imama was rightly selected, yes he failed the assignment it does not make him a riff raff.

[Otitokoro]

Oloye, na vex wey I dey vex.
But seriously, how can you have 3 grand opportunities to make a good impact and fail woefully at all 3? I mean, that is unheard of.
And by 'riff-raff', I mean as a coach, he came across as bereft of any tactical and strategic intelligence (I should have been clearer in my using the phrase).
But what 'stripes' has he earned? What is his body of work? What has he accomplished in his professional career? Does he even have a professional career to point to?
How can someone like him be a national team coach, at the expense of more accomplished people, like Amunike, Finidi, Rufai and several others???
Makes absolutely no sense to me.
Bottom line is the Olympics has been a CRUCIAL piece of our footballing development. The Olympics brought several of our mainstay players to limelight (last one brought Etebo and Troost-Ekong). We just lost a very good opportunity to view the next-gen of the SE due to this man's incompetence.

Otitokoro
Haba calling Imama riff raff coach I think does a great injustice to your write up. There are so many factors that would make a team to flounder like we did, other than the coach. Imama earned his stripes, so I cannot understand why you would call him a riff raff. If you believe that a coach who won the league is a riff raff, Hmmm it will be difficult to engage you in any debate, because my next question to you will be, what better criteria is there to use to assess the ability of a coach that is going to be saddled with the job of coaching a national team that would be formed largely by players plying their trade on the local scene.

In my humble opinion, I think we were careless with the preparations for this team. It had struggled in matches in the past and we have had to draft in firepower from abroad... The signs were there we just failed to address it. I don't want to go into the issue of a league that does not appear to be serving any purpose....

But please Imama was rightly selected, yes he failed the assignment it does not make him a riff raff.

[oloye]

Oloye, na vex wey I dey vex.
But seriously, how can you have 3 grand opportunities to make a good impact and fail woefully at all 3? I mean, that is unheard of.
And by 'riff-raff', I mean as a coach, he came across as bereft of any tactical and strategic intelligence (I should have been clearer in my using the phrase).
But what 'stripes' has he earned? What is his body of work? What has he accomplished in his professional career? Does he even have a professional career to point to?
How can someone like him be a national team coach, at the expense of more accomplished people, like Amunike, Finidi, Rufai and several others???
Makes absolutely no sense to me.
Bottom line is the Olympics has been a CRUCIAL piece of our footballing development. The Olympics brought several of our mainstay players to limelight (last one brought Etebo and Troost-Ekong). We just lost a very good opportunity to view the next-gen of the SE due to this man's incompetence.

Otitokoro
Haba calling Imama riff raff coach I think does a great injustice to your write up. There are so many factors that would make a team to flounder like we did, other than the coach. Imama earned his stripes, so I cannot understand why you would call him a riff raff. If you believe that a coach who won the league is a riff raff, Hmmm it will be difficult to engage you in any debate, because my next question to you will be, what better criteria is there to use to assess the ability of a coach that is going to be saddled with the job of coaching a national team that would be formed largely by players plying their trade on the local scene.

In my humble opinion, I think we were careless with the preparations for this team. It had struggled in matches in the past and we have had to draft in firepower from abroad... The signs were there we just failed to address it. I don't want to go into the issue of a league that does not appear to be serving any purpose....

But please Imama was rightly selected, yes he failed the assignment it does not make him a riff raff.

I no say na vex, but in truth Imama was selected on merit. You can select someone merit and they still fail especially if certain conditions around preparations are not done properly. Coaching as profession is not done in isolation. I am not trying to defend Imama, the truth is yes he failed woefully, but no one questioned the decision to include him on the national team coaching crew, no one. Heck he was being hailed as one of the latest brilliant coaches in the land.
My take on this is a simple he failed. But he did because a number of the enabling factors were missing, but he would have to own the responsibility for that failure.

[Otitokoro]

When someone or something fails in succession, that is deemed systemic.
Dude is not competent enough to manage a national team. He failed 3 consecuitive times.
When you say merit, what merit? Nobody knows what the criteria is for selecting coaches at the national level. I would argue there is no criteria - its all based on nepotism.
Otherwise, how can dullards like Bala Nkiyu or even Aigbogun become National team coaches?? How??

Oloye, na vex wey I dey vex.
But seriously, how can you have 3 grand opportunities to make a good impact and fail woefully at all 3? I mean, that is unheard of.
And by 'riff-raff', I mean as a coach, he came across as bereft of any tactical and strategic intelligence (I should have been clearer in my using the phrase).
But what 'stripes' has he earned? What is his body of work? What has he accomplished in his professional career? Does he even have a professional career to point to?
How can someone like him be a national team coach, at the expense of more accomplished people, like Amunike, Finidi, Rufai and several others???
Makes absolutely no sense to me.
Bottom line is the Olympics has been a CRUCIAL piece of our footballing development. The Olympics brought several of our mainstay players to limelight (last one brought Etebo and Troost-Ekong). We just lost a very good opportunity to view the next-gen of the SE due to this man's incompetence.

Otitokoro
Haba calling Imama riff raff coach I think does a great injustice to your write up. There are so many factors that would make a team to flounder like we did, other than the coach. Imama earned his stripes, so I cannot understand why you would call him a riff raff. If you believe that a coach who won the league is a riff raff, Hmmm it will be difficult to engage you in any debate, because my next question to you will be, what better criteria is there to use to assess the ability of a coach that is going to be saddled with the job of coaching a national team that would be formed largely by players plying their trade on the local scene.

In my humble opinion, I think we were careless with the preparations for this team. It had struggled in matches in the past and we have had to draft in firepower from abroad... The signs were there we just failed to address it. I don't want to go into the issue of a league that does not appear to be serving any purpose....

But please Imama was rightly selected, yes he failed the assignment it does not make him a riff raff.

I no say na vex, but in truth Imama was selected on merit. You can select someone merit and they still fail especially if certain conditions around preparations are not done properly. Coaching as profession is not done in isolation. I am not trying to defend Imama, the truth is yes he failed woefully, but no one questioned the decision to include him on the national team coaching crew, no one. Heck he was being hailed as one of the latest brilliant coaches in the land.
My take on this is a simple he failed. But he did because a number of the enabling factors were missing, but he would have to own the responsibility for that failure.

[Orion]

But what 'stripes' has he earned? What is his body of work? What has he accomplished in his professional career? Does he even have a professional career to point to?
How can someone like him be a national team coach, at the expense of more accomplished people, like Amunike, Finidi, Rufai and several others???
Makes absolutely no sense to me.

Are you aware that he won the NPFL in 2016? This is a recent win and not someone that hasn't won anything for 20 years. Just from the experience, I would select him any day over the likes of Finidi or Rufai who were very good players but do not have the commensurate coaching experience. You want a coach with experience of coaching senior team players and winning trophies. This guy is among the best of what we have on offer locally. Amunike was already unavailable when the U23 position was filled. The NPFL is in a bad state in terms of players and coaches and needs to be fixed.

[txj]

Doesn't mean that our football is not in dire straits...

Just look at:

- our clubs,
- our league
- the quality of young players coming thru

As opposed to when our clubs used to regularly win continental and world club trophies?

See one of my initial responses above, because when folks start to blather on about our football CURRENTLY being in “dire straits” then the primary response is contextual, as in as opposed to when. Nigerian clubs have won a grand total of 2 titles out of the 55 years of the premier continental cup competition (and 4 out of over 40+ of the second-tier competition).

Even then...When we were unsuccessful in the past, we at least had a proper club structure and basis for a successful domestic club football. Can anybody say same for the ramshackle teams and league of today? That is the proper context, not how many continental trophies were won...

Some folks are slow to get that the world has changed, and thus just as the Bosnian Rule changed European football forever, Globalization has changed ours and our league. Nonetheless, the REALITY is that in terms of global and continental competitions qualified for (and won), the number of youth players successfully transitioning into the senior, etc., we are THRIVING!

Even realizing that old folks live in a land called Nostalgia, the MEASURABLE indices are clear!

The problem is that in an era of globalization you have failed to grasp what to measure! A country's football develops from within- the domestic league and the quality of youth its football develops (as distinct from number of raw talent it sells).

Nigeria's football is growing- IN THE DIASPORA. By the dint of the individual growth of players transferred to Europe or dual nationality Nigerians. But what it is not is developing. It is this growth in the diaspora that is fueling our qualification for tournaments and performance therein.

Is it a bad thing? No. But it is not sustainable if its not backed by development of the local game.

[Otitokoro]

Okay? So he won the NPFL in 2016? A oneoff event. How is that a measure of how good he is?
Question I have is: Shouldn't that have helped him have first hand knowledge of all the good, young upandcoming players that he could have used to sucessfully prosecute the WAFU, CHAN and U23 AFCON challenges?
We have seen the likes of Ogunbote do similar or same. A oneoff sucess amongst a ton of failures only confirms the fact that he is certainly NOT competent enough for this job, considering he has better tools to work with at the national level.
Dude is grossly incompetent. Plain and simple.

But what 'stripes' has he earned? What is his body of work? What has he accomplished in his professional career? Does he even have a professional career to point to?
How can someone like him be a national team coach, at the expense of more accomplished people, like Amunike, Finidi, Rufai and several others???
Makes absolutely no sense to me.

Are you aware that he won the NPFL in 2016? This is a recent win and not someone that hasn't won anything for 20 years. Just from the experience, I would select him any day over the likes of Finidi or Rufai who were very good players but do not have the commensurate coaching experience. You want a coach with experience of coaches senior team players and winning trophies. This guy is among the best of what we have on offer locally. Amunike was already unavailable when the U23 position was filled. The NPFL is in a bad state in terms of players and coaches and needs to be fixed.

[Orion]

Okay? So he won the NPFL in 2016? A oneoff event. How is that a measure of how good he is?
Question I have is: Shouldn't that have helped him have first hand knowledge of all the good, young upandcoming players that he could have used to sucessfully prosecute the WAFU, CHAN and U23 AFCON challenges?
We have seen the likes of Ogunbote do similar or same. A oneoff sucess amongst a ton of failures only confirms the fact that he is certainly NOT competent enough for this job, considering he has better tools to work with at the national level.
Dude is grossly incompetent. Plain and simple.

I agree that the dude is incompetent. But the question is, was it out of place to have him as the U23 coach? No.

This is someone who should know a lot about the local scene and players. After all, he won the topmost league in 2016. All our coaches have been poor in 2019. We were here just a few months ago saying the guy that took the U20 team to the U20 World Cup should never be allowed near a Nigerian national team again. Then the U17 posted one of our poorest outings at the competition to date (when we've qualified). The problem goes deeper than this coach.

[txj]

What has that got to do with anything about the progress England is making?

Is the end merely qualifying and/or winning the youth tournaments as opposed to developing players?

How can anyone look at the quality of young players emerging for England and make the statement above!!!

Seriously...

The basis of the discussion is stated in the very first line...
To wit: “Now that Nigeria has been unceremoniously dumped out of the last competition...blah, blah, blah”.

Let’s look at the quality of players that we have been “developing” recently...
Ndidi, Osimhen, Chukwueze, Kalu, Awaziem, Omeruo, Kingsley Michael, Ejuke, etc.

Quality (as opposed to potential) of players is substantively a retrospective determination...
The likes of Jermaine Pennant, Jack Butland, etc. were once considered top quality youth players.

1. We did not develop those players. We "discovered" them.

If we had the ability to develop youth players to be top professionals, we would not be having this discussion.

And as we can all see with the goalkeeping position, we are unable to have a quality GK from the local league for the SE, the closest being Ezenwa, a certified clown!

It is the height of delusional thinking to reach the conclusion that we indeed did substantively develop any of the players you list above...

2. Not sure what the English players you listed from more than a decade ago has to do with anything. Lets look at current English young players if you want a factual discussion on the issue. In any case, Pennant (like Butland) is an ex-English international and played in the CL final.

Players may develop and emerge at different timelines, but quality, for the large part is visible in the here and now: Sterling, Sancho, Alexander Arnold, Hudson-Oddoi, Chilwell, Maddison, etc...