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 Post subject: March 2020 friendlies
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:32 pm 
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I just gathered from a very reliable source, that talks are underway for the SE to play Germany and Belgium in the 2020 FIFA friendly windows.
I hope it pans out as those matches will seriously test the SE.

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Last edited by Dammy on Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:42 pm 
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Dammy wrote:
I just gathered from a very reliable source, that talks are underway for the SE to play Germany and Belgium in the March 2020 FIFA friendly window.
I hope it pans out as those matches will seriously test the SE.



That is BS because we are supposed to play a WC qualifier in March, so we definately can't play both teams.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:49 pm 
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vancity eagle wrote:
Dammy wrote:
I just gathered from a very reliable source, that talks are underway for the SE to play Germany and Belgium in the March 2020 FIFA friendly window.
I hope it pans out as those matches will seriously test the SE.



That is BS because we are supposed to play a WC qualifier in March, so we definately can't play both teams.


VE,

While there is a WCQ scheduled in March, it will be just one game which likely leaves an open date for a friendly but that friendly may more likely be in Africa. Just my tuppence. WE may be able to play the countries listed by Dammy but it is more likely not in the March window.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 friendlies
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:53 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
vancity eagle wrote:
Dammy wrote:
I just gathered from a very reliable source, that talks are underway for the SE to play Germany and Belgium in the March 2020 FIFA friendly window.
I hope it pans out as those matches will seriously test the SE.



That is BS because we are supposed to play a WC qualifier in March, so we definately can't play both teams.


VE,

While there is a WCQ scheduled in March, it will be just one game which likely leaves an open date for a friendly but that friendly may more likely be in Africa. Just my tuppence. WE may be able to play the countries listed by Dammy but it is more likely not in the March window.

You're probably right, maybe not in March.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 friendlies
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:56 pm 
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Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
vancity eagle wrote:
Dammy wrote:
I just gathered from a very reliable source, that talks are underway for the SE to play Germany and Belgium in the March 2020 FIFA friendly window.
I hope it pans out as those matches will seriously test the SE.



That is BS because we are supposed to play a WC qualifier in March, so we definately can't play both teams.


VE,

While there is a WCQ scheduled in March, it will be just one game which likely leaves an open date for a friendly but that friendly may more likely be in Africa. Just my tuppence. WE may be able to play the countries listed by Dammy but it is more likely not in the March window.

You're probably right, maybe not in March.

So your "source" (which you most likely made up) is not so reliable.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:47 pm 
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When is the draw for the African 2022 WC qualifiers? 10 groups? So 10 teams will be seeded? 4 pots?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:06 pm 
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Undertaker wrote:
When is the draw for the African 2022 WC qualifiers? 10 groups? So 10 teams will be seeded? 4 pots?

Exactly,I’ve been trying to find out for a while!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:06 pm 
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Undertaker wrote:
When is the draw for the African 2022 WC qualifiers? 10 groups? So 10 teams will be seeded? 4 pots?



I've been searching. No info on when the draw is.

CAF is so disorganized I mean we start in March and they haven't even announced when the draw is.

Yes the groups will be seeded in 4 pots.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:50 pm 
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Well, there is no denying that we are consistently getting grade A friendlies now.
This wasnt the case not to long ago. I hope it pans out and we play both Germany and Belgium in their backyards.

Get any result there and we shoot up the FIFA rankings.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:06 pm 
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charlie wrote:
Well, there is no denying that we are consistently getting grade A friendlies now.
This wasnt the case not to long ago. I hope it pans out and we play both Germany and Belgium in their backyards.

Get any result there and we shoot up the FIFA rankings.



The grade A friendlies are good but we also need to get the Grade D ones to prep for African teams. We have to be prepared for those tough away games in places like The Congo, Cameroon and and Sudan. They're very tricky and I don't think playing Brazil preps you for those games.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:25 pm 
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charlie wrote:
Well, there is no denying that we are consistently getting grade A friendlies now.
This wasnt the case not to long ago. I hope it pans out and we play both Germany and Belgium in their backyards.

Get any result there and we shoot up the FIFA rankings.


Unfortunately you do not u understand how fifa rankings work.

We will get more points from beating Lesotho than our friendly draws with Brazil and Ukraine.

Fifa rankings are garbage. Based on stupid methodology.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:38 am 
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vancity eagle wrote:
Undertaker wrote:
When is the draw for the African 2022 WC qualifiers? 10 groups? So 10 teams will be seeded? 4 pots?



I've been searching. No info on when the draw is.

CAF is so disorganized I mean we start in March and they haven't even announced when the draw is.

Yes the groups will be seeded in 4 pots.


Is it CAF do or FIFA? I think the draw for the World Cup is a FIFA draw......

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:19 am 
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charlie wrote:
Well, there is no denying that we are consistently getting grade A friendlies now.
This wasnt the case not to long ago. I hope it pans out and we play both Germany and Belgium in their backyards.

Get any result there and we shoot up the FIFA rankings.
Hmmm. I'm not so sure.
Was reading about the complicated FIFA rankings formula the other day and was shocked to find that many countries have been known to boost their rankings by avoiding friendlies completely (regardless of expected outcome, win or lose). Whats more, a win in a friendly can actually lose you points (and potentially ranking).
And so some countries have been 'gaming' their rankings for strategic purposes. :idea:

It is not that simple and FIFA are still adjusting their rankings formula to eliminate these anomalies.

Quote:
The present system uses an average score based over a five-year period. However, as friendlies are worth significantly fewer points than competitive games simply playing them is guaranteed to drag down a nation's average score.
Some countries have actively avoided playing friendlies to protect their average score, while other teams -- such as England, Italy and Spain -- consistently play more friendlies and see their score fall.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/fifa-wo ... w-seedings.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:48 pm 
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Undertaker wrote:
vancity eagle wrote:
Undertaker wrote:
When is the draw for the African 2022 WC qualifiers? 10 groups? So 10 teams will be seeded? 4 pots?



I've been searching. No info on when the draw is.

CAF is so disorganized I mean we start in March and they haven't even announced when the draw is.

Yes the groups will be seeded in 4 pots.


Is it CAF do or FIFA? I think the draw for the World Cup is a FIFA draw......



Fifa does the World Cup draw and so far, nothing has been done yet. I do not see the World Cup qualifiers starting until after Euro 2020, so in March, we need some serious Grade A friendlies. Most European teams will be playing each other ahead of their continental tournament, so I can see us playing the likes of Argentina, Colombia, Venezuela, Peru, Chile, Australia, New Zealand, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:01 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
charlie wrote:
Well, there is no denying that we are consistently getting grade A friendlies now.
This wasnt the case not to long ago. I hope it pans out and we play both Germany and Belgium in their backyards.

Get any result there and we shoot up the FIFA rankings.
Hmmm. I'm not so sure.
Was reading about the complicated FIFA rankings formula the other day and was shocked to find that many countries have been known to boost their rankings by avoiding friendlies completely (regardless of expected outcome, win or lose). Whats more, a win in a friendly can actually lose you points (and potentially ranking).
And so some countries have been 'gaming' their rankings for strategic purposes. :idea:

It is not that simple and FIFA are still adjusting their rankings formula to eliminate these anomalies.

Quote:
The present system uses an average score based over a five-year period. However, as friendlies are worth significantly fewer points than competitive games simply playing them is guaranteed to drag down a nation's average score.
Some countries have actively avoided playing friendlies to protect their average score, while other teams -- such as England, Italy and Spain -- consistently play more friendlies and see their score fall.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/fifa-wo ... w-seedings.



this is the old system you are talking about.

FIFA changed their system after the last WC.

Friendlies can no longer hurt you, but they dont really give you much of a boost.

The problem with the current ranking is that it values winning more than the level of the opponent, and it doesn't give much credit for getting draws against strong teams.

Here is an example Canada got 5 points for beating Cuba, they would get 4.8 for drawing the US. To put things in perspective we got something like 2 points for tying Brazil, because it was a friendly it was only worth 2 points.

So Canada would get more points for beating the crappy team that is Cuba, than they would for getting a draw against the US

Beating Cuba in an official competition gained them more points than us drawing Brazil in a friendly.

stupid rankings.

If we want to go up we need to keep winning as many competative matches as possible. I believe we got 12 points for our 2 matches this window.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:05 pm 
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vancity eagle wrote:
Damunk wrote:
charlie wrote:
Well, there is no denying that we are consistently getting grade A friendlies now.
This wasnt the case not to long ago. I hope it pans out and we play both Germany and Belgium in their backyards.

Get any result there and we shoot up the FIFA rankings.
Hmmm. I'm not so sure.
Was reading about the complicated FIFA rankings formula the other day and was shocked to find that many countries have been known to boost their rankings by avoiding friendlies completely (regardless of expected outcome, win or lose). Whats more, a win in a friendly can actually lose you points (and potentially ranking).
And so some countries have been 'gaming' their rankings for strategic purposes. :idea:

It is not that simple and FIFA are still adjusting their rankings formula to eliminate these anomalies.

Quote:
The present system uses an average score based over a five-year period. However, as friendlies are worth significantly fewer points than competitive games simply playing them is guaranteed to drag down a nation's average score.
Some countries have actively avoided playing friendlies to protect their average score, while other teams -- such as England, Italy and Spain -- consistently play more friendlies and see their score fall.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/fifa-wo ... w-seedings.



this is the old system you are talking about.

FIFA changed their system after the last WC.

Friendlies can no longer hurt you, but they dont really give you much of a boost.

The problem with the current ranking is that it values winning more than the level of the opponent, and it doesn't give much credit for getting draws against strong teams.

Here is an example Canada got 5 points for beating Cuba, they would get 4.8 for drawing the US. To put things in perspective we got something like 2 points for tying Brazil, because it was a friendly it was only worth 2 points.

So Canada would get more points for beating the crappy team that is Cuba, than they would for getting a draw against the US

Beating Cuba in an official competition gained them more points than us drawing Brazil in a friendly.

stupid rankings.

If we want to go up we need to keep winning as many competative matches as possible. I believe we got 12 points for our 2 matches this window.

So we should get 10 points for beating Benin and Lesotho?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:11 pm 
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Eaglezbeak wrote:
vancity eagle wrote:
Damunk wrote:
charlie wrote:
Well, there is no denying that we are consistently getting grade A friendlies now.
This wasnt the case not to long ago. I hope it pans out and we play both Germany and Belgium in their backyards.

Get any result there and we shoot up the FIFA rankings.
Hmmm. I'm not so sure.
Was reading about the complicated FIFA rankings formula the other day and was shocked to find that many countries have been known to boost their rankings by avoiding friendlies completely (regardless of expected outcome, win or lose). Whats more, a win in a friendly can actually lose you points (and potentially ranking).
And so some countries have been 'gaming' their rankings for strategic purposes. :idea:

It is not that simple and FIFA are still adjusting their rankings formula to eliminate these anomalies.

Quote:
The present system uses an average score based over a five-year period. However, as friendlies are worth significantly fewer points than competitive games simply playing them is guaranteed to drag down a nation's average score.
Some countries have actively avoided playing friendlies to protect their average score, while other teams -- such as England, Italy and Spain -- consistently play more friendlies and see their score fall.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/fifa-wo ... w-seedings.



this is the old system you are talking about.

FIFA changed their system after the last WC.

Friendlies can no longer hurt you, but they dont really give you much of a boost.

The problem with the current ranking is that it values winning more than the level of the opponent, and it doesn't give much credit for getting draws against strong teams.

Here is an example Canada got 5 points for beating Cuba, they would get 4.8 for drawing the US. To put things in perspective we got something like 2 points for tying Brazil, because it was a friendly it was only worth 2 points.

So Canada would get more points for beating the crappy team that is Cuba, than they would for getting a draw against the US

Beating Cuba in an official competition gained them more points than us drawing Brazil in a friendly.

stupid rankings.

If we want to go up we need to keep winning as many competative matches as possible. I believe we got 12 points for our 2 matches this window.

So we should get 10 points for beating Benin and Lesotho?



roughly 12 points and we are supposedly going up from #35 to #30 based on results so far.

This website goes through all of the calculations

http://football-ranking.com/


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:08 pm 
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vancity eagle wrote:
Damunk wrote:
charlie wrote:
Well, there is no denying that we are consistently getting grade A friendlies now.
This wasnt the case not to long ago. I hope it pans out and we play both Germany and Belgium in their backyards.

Get any result there and we shoot up the FIFA rankings.
Hmmm. I'm not so sure.
Was reading about the complicated FIFA rankings formula the other day and was shocked to find that many countries have been known to boost their rankings by avoiding friendlies completely (regardless of expected outcome, win or lose). Whats more, a win in a friendly can actually lose you points (and potentially ranking).
And so some countries have been 'gaming' their rankings for strategic purposes. :idea:

It is not that simple and FIFA are still adjusting their rankings formula to eliminate these anomalies.

Quote:
The present system uses an average score based over a five-year period. However, as friendlies are worth significantly fewer points than competitive games simply playing them is guaranteed to drag down a nation's average score.
Some countries have actively avoided playing friendlies to protect their average score, while other teams -- such as England, Italy and Spain -- consistently play more friendlies and see their score fall.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/fifa-wo ... w-seedings.



this is the old system you are talking about.

FIFA changed their system after the last WC.

Friendlies can no longer hurt you, but they dont really give you much of a boost.

The problem with the current ranking is that it values winning more than the level of the opponent, and it doesn't give much credit for getting draws against strong teams.

Here is an example Canada got 5 points for beating Cuba, they would get 4.8 for drawing the US. To put things in perspective we got something like 2 points for tying Brazil, because it was a friendly it was only worth 2 points.

So Canada would get more points for beating the crappy team that is Cuba, than they would for getting a draw against the US

Beating Cuba in an official competition gained them more points than us drawing Brazil in a friendly.

stupid rankings.

If we want to go up we need to keep winning as many competative matches as possible. I believe we got 12 points for our 2 matches this window.


But doesn't this help weaker teams boost their rankings? How many opportunities would we have to rise in ranking if we had to rely primarily on beating stronger ranked teams than us? We dont get to play the likes of Brazil often. This should help mid tier teams like us rise since the majority of our points will come from competitive games against arguably weaker opponent in Africa.

Besides, friendlies are not usually an accurate reflection of the strength of teams due to their nature, (increased number of subs, they are used to try new players and new formations etc). Competitive games should weigh more.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:46 pm 
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metalalloy wrote:
vancity eagle wrote:
Damunk wrote:
charlie wrote:
Well, there is no denying that we are consistently getting grade A friendlies now.
This wasnt the case not to long ago. I hope it pans out and we play both Germany and Belgium in their backyards.

Get any result there and we shoot up the FIFA rankings.
Hmmm. I'm not so sure.
Was reading about the complicated FIFA rankings formula the other day and was shocked to find that many countries have been known to boost their rankings by avoiding friendlies completely (regardless of expected outcome, win or lose). Whats more, a win in a friendly can actually lose you points (and potentially ranking).
And so some countries have been 'gaming' their rankings for strategic purposes. :idea:

It is not that simple and FIFA are still adjusting their rankings formula to eliminate these anomalies.

Quote:
The present system uses an average score based over a five-year period. However, as friendlies are worth significantly fewer points than competitive games simply playing them is guaranteed to drag down a nation's average score.
Some countries have actively avoided playing friendlies to protect their average score, while other teams -- such as England, Italy and Spain -- consistently play more friendlies and see their score fall.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/fifa-wo ... w-seedings.



this is the old system you are talking about.

FIFA changed their system after the last WC.

Friendlies can no longer hurt you, but they dont really give you much of a boost.

The problem with the current ranking is that it values winning more than the level of the opponent, and it doesn't give much credit for getting draws against strong teams.

Here is an example Canada got 5 points for beating Cuba, they would get 4.8 for drawing the US. To put things in perspective we got something like 2 points for tying Brazil, because it was a friendly it was only worth 2 points.

So Canada would get more points for beating the crappy team that is Cuba, than they would for getting a draw against the US

Beating Cuba in an official competition gained them more points than us drawing Brazil in a friendly.

stupid rankings.

If we want to go up we need to keep winning as many competative matches as possible. I believe we got 12 points for our 2 matches this window.


But doesn't this help weaker teams boost their rankings? How many opportunities would we have to rise in ranking if we had to rely primarily on beating stronger ranked teams than us? We dont get to play the likes of Brazil often. This should help mid tier teams like us rise since the majority of our points will come from competitive games against arguably weaker opponent in Africa.

Besides, friendlies are not usually an accurate reflection of the strength of teams due to their nature, (increased number of subs, they are used to try new players and new formations etc). Competitive games should weigh more.



Yes it will help us, but it does not accurately reflect the strength of a team, which is what rankings are supposed to do.

I created my own ranking system 15 years ago, and while under my system Nigeria would not gain points from beating teams like Lesotho, according to my ranking system Nigeria is currently at #23 opposed to FIFA's #35.

I opened a thread on Bigsoccer explaining my ranking system and how it is far more accurate than FIFA

[url]
http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/altern ... d.2092151/[/url]

Also if we continue to win all of our ANCQ, do well in the 2021 ANC and qualify for the 2022 WC I think we have a good chance at getting a 2nd pot seed for the WC, and definately at least a third, but I think we should be aiming for a 2nd pot which is very doable if we just keep winning games we should be winning.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:06 pm 
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Undertaker wrote:
vancity eagle wrote:
Undertaker wrote:
When is the draw for the African 2022 WC qualifiers? 10 groups? So 10 teams will be seeded? 4 pots?

I've been searching. No info on when the draw is.

CAF is so disorganized I mean we start in March and they haven't even announced when the draw is.

Yes the groups will be seeded in 4 pots.

Is it CAF do or FIFA? I think the draw for the World Cup is a FIFA draw......

... that's what I thought and seems to have been the case in the past. Thus, it's not CAF's responsibility to release the Worldcup qualifiers' game schedule, I think, but I could be wrong

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:49 pm 
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Ayo Akinfe wrote:
Undertaker wrote:
vancity eagle wrote:
Undertaker wrote:
When is the draw for the African 2022 WC qualifiers? 10 groups? So 10 teams will be seeded? 4 pots?



I've been searching. No info on when the draw is.

CAF is so disorganized I mean we start in March and they haven't even announced when the draw is.

Yes the groups will be seeded in 4 pots.


Is it CAF do or FIFA? I think the draw for the World Cup is a FIFA draw......



Fifa does the World Cup draw and so far, nothing has been done yet. I do not see the World Cup qualifiers starting until after Euro 2020, so in March, we need some serious Grade A friendlies. Most European teams will be playing each other ahead of their continental tournament, so I can see us playing the likes of Argentina, Colombia, Venezuela, Peru, Chile, Australia, New Zealand, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc.


Dude, South America Marathon World Cup qualifiers starts in March 2020!

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:48 pm 
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vancity eagle wrote:
Damunk wrote:
charlie wrote:
Well, there is no denying that we are consistently getting grade A friendlies now.
This wasnt the case not to long ago. I hope it pans out and we play both Germany and Belgium in their backyards.

Get any result there and we shoot up the FIFA rankings.
Hmmm. I'm not so sure.
Was reading about the complicated FIFA rankings formula the other day and was shocked to find that many countries have been known to boost their rankings by avoiding friendlies completely (regardless of expected outcome, win or lose). Whats more, a win in a friendly can actually lose you points (and potentially ranking).
And so some countries have been 'gaming' their rankings for strategic purposes. :idea:

It is not that simple and FIFA are still adjusting their rankings formula to eliminate these anomalies.

Quote:
The present system uses an average score based over a five-year period. However, as friendlies are worth significantly fewer points than competitive games simply playing them is guaranteed to drag down a nation's average score.
Some countries have actively avoided playing friendlies to protect their average score, while other teams -- such as England, Italy and Spain -- consistently play more friendlies and see their score fall.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/fifa-wo ... w-seedings.



this is the old system you are talking about.

FIFA changed their system after the last WC.

Friendlies can no longer hurt you, but they dont really give you much of a boost.

The problem with the current ranking is that it values winning more than the level of the opponent, and it doesn't give much credit for getting draws against strong teams.

Here is an example Canada got 5 points for beating Cuba, they would get 4.8 for drawing the US. To put things in perspective we got something like 2 points for tying Brazil, because it was a friendly it was only worth 2 points.

So Canada would get more points for beating the crappy team that is Cuba, than they would for getting a draw against the US

Beating Cuba in an official competition gained them more points than us drawing Brazil in a friendly.

stupid rankings.

If we want to go up we need to keep winning as many competative matches as possible. I believe we got 12 points for our 2 matches this window.
Thanks.
So is the new system still skewed in favour of the European teams?
Cos we'll only ever get to play them in friendlies outside the WC.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:00 am 
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Damunk wrote:
vancity eagle wrote:
Damunk wrote:
charlie wrote:
Well, there is no denying that we are consistently getting grade A friendlies now.
This wasnt the case not to long ago. I hope it pans out and we play both Germany and Belgium in their backyards.

Get any result there and we shoot up the FIFA rankings.
Hmmm. I'm not so sure.
Was reading about the complicated FIFA rankings formula the other day and was shocked to find that many countries have been known to boost their rankings by avoiding friendlies completely (regardless of expected outcome, win or lose). Whats more, a win in a friendly can actually lose you points (and potentially ranking).
And so some countries have been 'gaming' their rankings for strategic purposes. :idea:

It is not that simple and FIFA are still adjusting their rankings formula to eliminate these anomalies.

Quote:
The present system uses an average score based over a five-year period. However, as friendlies are worth significantly fewer points than competitive games simply playing them is guaranteed to drag down a nation's average score.
Some countries have actively avoided playing friendlies to protect their average score, while other teams -- such as England, Italy and Spain -- consistently play more friendlies and see their score fall.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/fifa-wo ... w-seedings.



this is the old system you are talking about.

FIFA changed their system after the last WC.

Friendlies can no longer hurt you, but they dont really give you much of a boost.

The problem with the current ranking is that it values winning more than the level of the opponent, and it doesn't give much credit for getting draws against strong teams.

Here is an example Canada got 5 points for beating Cuba, they would get 4.8 for drawing the US. To put things in perspective we got something like 2 points for tying Brazil, because it was a friendly it was only worth 2 points.

So Canada would get more points for beating the crappy team that is Cuba, than they would for getting a draw against the US

Beating Cuba in an official competition gained them more points than us drawing Brazil in a friendly.

stupid rankings.

If we want to go up we need to keep winning as many competative matches as possible. I believe we got 12 points for our 2 matches this window.
Thanks.
So is the new system still skewed in favour of the European teams?
Cos we'll only ever get to play them in friendlies outside the WC.


No it doesn't give euro teams the advantage it used to, however because it is based on the previous rankings, many of the 2nd tier and average euro sides are overrated, and thus it will take a while for that old bias to iron itself out.


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