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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 3:51 pm 
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furiously frank wrote:
txj wrote:
Are we excluding early recovery? There are players who are predisposed for early recovery.

secondly, do we really know what kind of knee injury this is, and can we really infer as suggested?

Look at a quote from Leicester news:

Quote:
“Wilf took a knock in training yesterday, which unfortunately means he might need a slight operation,” he said.

“It was just unfortunate, he nicked his meniscus just changing direction. You’re looking at around three or four weeks (out), so he’ll probably miss most of January and early February, and then he will be back by then.”


Yes, the timeline for recovery from surgery for a meniscus tear is 4-6weeks, but then it depends on what kind of meniscus injury, whether it is a tear or strain; and especially, the location of the injury. Do we know any of this?

Not sure I understand the outrage and the racial arguments....

Diokpa, why are you arguing against your own posted facts. You are entitled to your opinion and not facts. You did well in stating the recovery period for surgery on meniscus. You should have stopped there.

No one does surgery for a strain


Chief, always allow for the fact that you don’t know everything. No one individual ever does. Osteoarthritis, for example, is caused by muscle strains and severe cases of that are frequently treated with surgery. Even the build up of fluid in the knee may require surgical treatment. There are so many different levels of knee injuries as well as many different types of surgery, some more invasive than others. Typically, the less invasive the surgery, the lesser the recovery crime. There was no information about the extent of Ndidi’s injury so, we really can’t second guess his treatment. I would simply trust that the doctors know what they’re doing❗️


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:37 pm 
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oloye wrote:
For me the piece I find worrying is where they planned to play him for 20 mins or so but decided to keep him above that. That they decided he should play only for 20 mins tells you that they at least realise the need to manage something which they later jettisoned.

I remember Ambrose coming back from a long journey and decided to play in a Celtic game he should not have played, he made a couple of mistakes which resulted in goals against Celtic, he was blasted for not being professional... That is the key word here being professional. This applies to everyone, the coaches, the medical team and the player.

I hope Ndidí does not get into the habit of making these sort of sacrifice, it is not worth it. I have the scar to prove it, it ain't worth it.


Dean, nothing to add but, Kpom!

That is why he needs better representation. With a high profile agent, there's no way the club is rushing him back.

This is still a business. They will dump you in a second...

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:50 pm 
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Cellular wrote:
oloye wrote:
For me the piece I find worrying is where they planned to play him for 20 mins or so but decided to keep him above that. That they decided he should play only for 20 mins tells you that they at least realise the need to manage something which they later jettisoned.

I remember Ambrose coming back from a long journey and decided to play in a Celtic game he should not have played, he made a couple of mistakes which resulted in goals against Celtic, he was blasted for not being professional... That is the key word here being professional. This applies to everyone, the coaches, the medical team and the player.

I hope Ndidí does not get into the habit of making these sort of sacrifice, it is not worth it. I have the scar to prove it, it ain't worth it.


Dean, nothing to add but, Kpom!

That is why he needs better representation. With a high profile agent, there's no way the club is rushing him back.

This is still a business. They will dump you in a second...


KPOMADE! Good tok Oloye!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:22 am 
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TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
furiously frank wrote:
txj wrote:
Are we excluding early recovery? There are players who are predisposed for early recovery.

secondly, do we really know what kind of knee injury this is, and can we really infer as suggested?

Look at a quote from Leicester news:

Quote:
“Wilf took a knock in training yesterday, which unfortunately means he might need a slight operation,” he said.

“It was just unfortunate, he nicked his meniscus just changing direction. You’re looking at around three or four weeks (out), so he’ll probably miss most of January and early February, and then he will be back by then.”


Yes, the timeline for recovery from surgery for a meniscus tear is 4-6weeks, but then it depends on what kind of meniscus injury, whether it is a tear or strain; and especially, the location of the injury. Do we know any of this?

Not sure I understand the outrage and the racial arguments....

Diokpa, why are you arguing against your own posted facts. You are entitled to your opinion and not facts. You did well in stating the recovery period for surgery on meniscus. You should have stopped there.

No one does surgery for a strain


Chief, always allow for the fact that you don’t know everything. No one individual ever does. Osteoarthritis, for example, is caused by muscle strains and severe cases of that are frequently treated with surgery. Even the build up of fluid in the knee may require surgical treatment. There are so many different levels of knee injuries as well as many different types of surgery, some more invasive than others. Typically, the less invasive the surgery, the lesser the recovery crime. There was no information about the extent of Ndidi’s injury so, we really can’t second guess his treatment. I would simply trust that the doctors know what they’re doing❗️


Cheers.

First of all the doctors are not the ones making the decisions here. Secondly, ‘‘tis discussion is on soccer. please restrict yourself to soccer surgery and not obgyn, your area of expertise

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:56 am 
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furiously frank wrote:
First of all the doctors are not the ones making the decisions here. Secondly, ‘‘tis discussion is on soccer. please restrict yourself to soccer surgery and not obgyn, your area of expertise

Coach's decision should be on the basis of doctor's advice. I doubt any coach is mad enough to overrule doctors.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:28 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
Coach's decision should be on the basis of doctor's advice. I doubt any coach is mad enough to overrule doctors.


Quote:
The 75 year-old – who has since returned to Bayern - had launched a scathing attack on Guardiola in his new autobiography and he has now continued his criticism in an interview with German television, accusing the Catalan of putting success over the welfare of players.

“He [Guardiola] completely neglected the medical profession,” Muller-Wohlfhart told ZDF. “It was not about recovery of the players, but only freedom from pain. It was not about the healing of injuries, it was completely against my philosophy.
“He underestimated me and wanted to make me a commander. He overestimated himself and thinks he knows better than anybody, but I was too big for him. I had a wonderful status at the club.

“He could not bear that I was the same as him, so I had to be trimmed and he used every opportunity to dupe me.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... rn-doctor/

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:51 pm 
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Fabio, if what the doctor said is true, then Pep is mad. The question is whether his comments are true or a reflection of beef with Pep, who may have an alternative version of events.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:54 pm 
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oloye wrote:
For me the piece I find worrying is where they planned to play him for 20 mins or so but decided to keep him above that. That they decided he should play only for 20 mins tells you that they at least realise the need to manage something which they later jettisoned.

I remember Ambrose coming back from a long journey and decided to play in a Celtic game he should not have played, he made a couple of mistakes which resulted in goals against Celtic, he was blasted for not being professional... That is the key word here being professional. This applies to everyone, the coaches, the medical team and the player.

I hope Ndidí does not get into the habit of making these sort of sacrifice, it is not worth it. I have the scar to prove it, it ain't worth it.



:clap: :clap:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:15 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
Fabio, if what the doctor said is true, then Pep is mad. The question is whether his comments are true or a reflection of beef with Pep, who may have an alternative version of events.


:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: Of course you will say "if," because its about your check book boyfriend.

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Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:20 pm 
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danfo driver wrote:

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: Of course you will say "if," because its about your check book boyfriend.

Didn't you claim to be a lawyer?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:44 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
danfo driver wrote:

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: Of course you will say "if," because its about your check book boyfriend.

Didn't you claim to be a lawyer?


before or after you claimed to be physically fit? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

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metalalloy wrote:
Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:13 pm 
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danfo driver wrote:

before or after you claimed to be physically fit? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Notice how everyone is discussing this issue intellectually, apart from you.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:49 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
Quote:
Babayaro Unhappy With Leicester City For Rushing Ndidi Back From Injury
https://www.owngoalnigeria.com/2020/01/23/babayaro-unhappy-with-leicester-city-for-rushing-ndidi-back-from-injury/
January 23, 2020085

Former Chelsea and Super Eagles legend Celestine Babayaro has taken a swipe at Leicester City manager Brendan Rodgers for rushing Wilfred Ndidi back to action after undergoing knee surgery three weeks ago.

Ndidi was originally expected to be sidelined till the first week of February but yesterday he played over an hour for Leicester City in their 4-1 win over West Ham coming on as a 34th minute substitute for the injured Papy Mendy.

After the game Rodgers defended his decision to play the 23 year old, three weeks earlier than when he was suppose to be back on the pitch by saying he has a genetic blessing that ensures he recovers faster from injuries.

“It’s remarkable, really. We were thinking he could only play 25-30 minutes,” Rodgers said after the match.

“Obviously he was fine to come on and play a full hour. He is genetically blessed and he recovered very, very well. And he was excellent.”

Reacting to the statement made by the coach, Babayaro said it’s unprofessional for the club to rush the Nigerian back as they should have allow him recover fully before bringing him back.

He said their decision to rush him back is due to the fact that the team didn’t win any game without the ‎Nigerian but it could backfire in the long run which could affect the career of the player in the future.

” It was a knee injury and he underwent surgery, there’s no way he should be back playing after three weeks. The decision to rush him back is unprofessional and it’s connected to the fact that they didn’t win a game without him. Every player need to recover fully and not rushed back because in the long run it could affect their career “, Babayaro told Owngoalnigeria.com


I just hope Babayaro is not right, Ndidi has been ruled out of today's match against Chelsea with injury. It seems he was rushed back and this is on Rodgers.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:41 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
charlie wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
charlie wrote:
While I agree it is gross misconduct to rush a player back from injury, lets look at the facts:

1. We dont know what the injury was, other than it was in the knee and some surgery was required. It might have been a simple non intrusive procedure that requires key hole surgery, like draining some fluid. That does not take time to recover from.

2. He didnt seem hobbled when he played. He looked like his old self, playing with burst, showing speed, capable of jumping, taking contact, etc.

No one other than Ndidi and Leicester knows the facts. So I dont think we should make assumptions without facts concerning his injury.
All we can say for certain is that he looked fine when he played, so Rogers is within his right to play him.

Charlie,

Just one correction. While the exact injury is unknown , its effect can be inferred. If you re-read the piece it mentions that the predicted return to playing is February which tells you the impact and that he clearly returned before his return was anticipated. Even Rodgers comment about genetically infers that. What is not known is whether he healed fully by the time of his return or why he returned before his injury was expected to be fully healed .


Ok, but doctors always give conservative estimates when it comes to injuries.
Secondly, it doesnt factor into consideration Ndidi's own recuperation capabilities. He is someone who is hardly injured so it might be he has high regenerative powers.

For me the key is he didnt play injured or even handicaped. He looked like himself.

Game on!

Charlie

I do not know if Ndidi was not fully recovered when he returned. But we surely know that he returned earlier than projected. We also know that athletes are often rushed back earlier than they should be because their interest in such cases can be in conflict with the club. Let just hope that is not the case here and we will know in the coming weeks in terms off Ndidi's health going forward. But I am not ready to give either Rodgers or Leicester the pass here.



As I stated above, we are now learning more. Ndidi is isn't on the field today. Why? Knee. Now this is precisely the fear when a player is rushed back early and that is exactly what Babayaro was referring to. He should know having been around these clubs.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:28 pm 
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I can hazard a guess as someone who has been in this spot before, there was a reaction, probably inflamed knee. He is young, but there is a reason your body breaks down in the first place, it is to warn you that it needs a break.
I was not surprised when I did not see him on the field, did not need to be....

I wish him speedy recovery.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:21 pm 
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:evil: :sad: sad

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:39 pm 
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There should have been an adult in the room.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:17 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
danfo driver wrote:

before or after you claimed to be physically fit? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Notice how everyone is discussing this issue intellectually, apart from you.


Notice how you are the only one continuously kowtowing to your white master?

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metalalloy wrote:
Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:20 pm 
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Cellular wrote:
There should have been an adult in the room.


Ndidi needs to stand up for himself. Ndombele did! But we Africans, we are so meek sometimes and always have to do "yes sir, yes sir."


And then you have the useless NFF welfare officer who will only open him detty mouth when its time to eat money. This is a time where he should have written a strong worded letter to Leicester and published the letter on the NFF social media handles... and then give multiple interviews in the Nigerian and British press calling Rodgers out. But that one doesnt know his yansh from his eye balls, talkless of knowing his damnnnn job!

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metalalloy wrote:
Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:58 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
furiously frank wrote:
First of all the doctors are not the ones making the decisions here. Secondly, ‘‘tis discussion is on soccer. please restrict yourself to soccer surgery and not obgyn, your area of expertise

Coach's decision should be on the basis of doctor's advice. I doubt any coach is mad enough to overrule doctors.


I guess your statement excludes American sports, where players have to get their own doctors to review and sometimes overrule the decision of team doctors.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:36 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
charlie wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
charlie wrote:
While I agree it is gross misconduct to rush a player back from injury, lets look at the facts:

1. We dont know what the injury was, other than it was in the knee and some surgery was required. It might have been a simple non intrusive procedure that requires key hole surgery, like draining some fluid. That does not take time to recover from.

2. He didnt seem hobbled when he played. He looked like his old self, playing with burst, showing speed, capable of jumping, taking contact, etc.

No one other than Ndidi and Leicester knows the facts. So I dont think we should make assumptions without facts concerning his injury.
All we can say for certain is that he looked fine when he played, so Rogers is within his right to play him.

Charlie,

Just one correction. While the exact injury is unknown , its effect can be inferred. If you re-read the piece it mentions that the predicted return to playing is February which tells you the impact and that he clearly returned before his return was anticipated. Even Rodgers comment about genetically infers that. What is not known is whether he healed fully by the time of his return or why he returned before his injury was expected to be fully healed .


Ok, but doctors always give conservative estimates when it comes to injuries.
Secondly, it doesnt factor into consideration Ndidi's own recuperation capabilities. He is someone who is hardly injured so it might be he has high regenerative powers.

For me the key is he didnt play injured or even handicaped. He looked like himself.

Game on!

Charlie

I do not know if Ndidi was not fully recovered when he returned. But we surely know that he returned earlier than projected. We also know that athletes are often rushed back earlier than they should be because their interest in such cases can be in conflict with the club. Let just hope that is not the case here and we will know in the coming weeks in terms off Ndidi's health going forward. But I am not ready to give either Rodgers or Leicester the pass here.



As I stated above, we are now learning more. Ndidi is isn't on the field today. Why? Knee. Now this is precisely the fear when a player is rushed back early and that is exactly what Babayaro was referring to. He should know having been around these clubs.


You really should try and inform yourself properly about issues such as this.

Soreness is not a recurrence of the injury nor evidence of being rushed back.

Stuff like this happens on instances of a player returning from injury.

And without any in-depth information on the injury, it’s a bit misleading to speculate as you have been...

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/spor ... ry-3801568

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:44 pm 
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txj wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
charlie wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
charlie wrote:
While I agree it is gross misconduct to rush a player back from injury, lets look at the facts:

1. We dont know what the injury was, other than it was in the knee and some surgery was required. It might have been a simple non intrusive procedure that requires key hole surgery, like draining some fluid. That does not take time to recover from.

2. He didnt seem hobbled when he played. He looked like his old self, playing with burst, showing speed, capable of jumping, taking contact, etc.

No one other than Ndidi and Leicester knows the facts. So I dont think we should make assumptions without facts concerning his injury.
All we can say for certain is that he looked fine when he played, so Rogers is within his right to play him.

Charlie,

Just one correction. While the exact injury is unknown , its effect can be inferred. If you re-read the piece it mentions that the predicted return to playing is February which tells you the impact and that he clearly returned before his return was anticipated. Even Rodgers comment about genetically infers that. What is not known is whether he healed fully by the time of his return or why he returned before his injury was expected to be fully healed .


Ok, but doctors always give conservative estimates when it comes to injuries.
Secondly, it doesnt factor into consideration Ndidi's own recuperation capabilities. He is someone who is hardly injured so it might be he has high regenerative powers.

For me the key is he didnt play injured or even handicaped. He looked like himself.

Game on!

Charlie

I do not know if Ndidi was not fully recovered when he returned. But we surely know that he returned earlier than projected. We also know that athletes are often rushed back earlier than they should be because their interest in such cases can be in conflict with the club. Let just hope that is not the case here and we will know in the coming weeks in terms off Ndidi's health going forward. But I am not ready to give either Rodgers or Leicester the pass here.



As I stated above, we are now learning more. Ndidi is isn't on the field today. Why? Knee. Now this is precisely the fear when a player is rushed back early and that is exactly what Babayaro was referring to. He should know having been around these clubs.


You really should try and inform yourself properly about issues such as this.

Soreness is not a recurrence of the injury nor evidence of being rushed back.

Stuff like this happens on instances of a player returning from injury.

And without any in-depth information on the injury, it’s a bit misleading to speculate as you have been...

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/spor ... ry-3801568


Txj

You are apparently uninformed on this issue. A player fully fit to be back will not have the set back now experienced by Ndidi. In your view the injury should be a re-occurrence before it counts as a setback? Do you understand what a setback means? Soreness, re-injury, or lack of adequate fitness that prevents the player from playing continuously after he returns is a setback. That is simply what a setback means and it indicates that the player returned earlier than he ought to. In In this case, the player complained of pain at the same spot where he was previously injured and yet it isn't a setback for you? It isn't still an indication that he returned earlier than the case should be? Really?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:39 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
txj wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
charlie wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
charlie wrote:
While I agree it is gross misconduct to rush a player back from injury, lets look at the facts:

1. We dont know what the injury was, other than it was in the knee and some surgery was required. It might have been a simple non intrusive procedure that requires key hole surgery, like draining some fluid. That does not take time to recover from.

2. He didnt seem hobbled when he played. He looked like his old self, playing with burst, showing speed, capable of jumping, taking contact, etc.

No one other than Ndidi and Leicester knows the facts. So I dont think we should make assumptions without facts concerning his injury.
All we can say for certain is that he looked fine when he played, so Rogers is within his right to play him.

Charlie,

Just one correction. While the exact injury is unknown , its effect can be inferred. If you re-read the piece it mentions that the predicted return to playing is February which tells you the impact and that he clearly returned before his return was anticipated. Even Rodgers comment about genetically infers that. What is not known is whether he healed fully by the time of his return or why he returned before his injury was expected to be fully healed .


Ok, but doctors always give conservative estimates when it comes to injuries.
Secondly, it doesnt factor into consideration Ndidi's own recuperation capabilities. He is someone who is hardly injured so it might be he has high regenerative powers.

For me the key is he didnt play injured or even handicaped. He looked like himself.

Game on!

Charlie

I do not know if Ndidi was not fully recovered when he returned. But we surely know that he returned earlier than projected. We also know that athletes are often rushed back earlier than they should be because their interest in such cases can be in conflict with the club. Let just hope that is not the case here and we will know in the coming weeks in terms off Ndidi's health going forward. But I am not ready to give either Rodgers or Leicester the pass here.



As I stated above, we are now learning more. Ndidi is isn't on the field today. Why? Knee. Now this is precisely the fear when a player is rushed back early and that is exactly what Babayaro was referring to. He should know having been around these clubs.


You really should try and inform yourself properly about issues such as this.

Soreness is not a recurrence of the injury nor evidence of being rushed back.

Stuff like this happens on instances of a player returning from injury.

And without any in-depth information on the injury, it’s a bit misleading to speculate as you have been...

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/spor ... ry-3801568


Txj

You are apparently uninformed on this issue. A player fully fit to be back will not have the set back now experienced by Ndidi. In your view the injury should be a re-occurrence before it counts as a setback? Do you understand what a setback means? Soreness, re-injury, or lack of adequate fitness that prevents the player from playing continuously after he returns is a setback. That is simply what a setback means and it indicates that the player returned earlier than he ought to. In In this case, the player complained of pain at the same spot where he was previously injured and yet it isn't a setback for you? It isn't still an indication that he returned earlier than the case should be? Really?



Just because it’s a setback doesn’t indicate that the player was rushed back. A player returning from injury cannot start at 100% match fitness.

My point is that these incidences are not sufficient to reach the conclusion that you have, absent details of the injury and recovery.

You simply don’t have the facts to make such a leap in judgment.

_________________
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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