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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:22 pm 
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Bigpokey24 wrote:
Cellular wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Quote:
. . . it is also a vastly different squad from any in the country's history. In 70 years of international football, Nigeria has never featured a squad that is so dependent on players with dual citizenship, many born outside Africa. That very characteristic is claimed to be the biggest asset of this team. The fans believe that players bred in Nigeria lack appropriate football education required to compete with the best in the world. But the rough and tumble of African soccer may well challenge that claim and that is where the Sierra Leonians step up.


Quote:
Then there is a psychological strength that is required to achieve a measure of consistency in the face of a different style of balling. The likes of Ebuehi, Iwobi, and Aina have clearly stories to tell about their initial starts for Nigeria and the challenges. The African arena presents a football education that isn't easily grasped in a European academy. If you cannot adapt to it, if you cannot re-learn some of the other European football education, and if you cannot man-up in the continental African style then the results may be bleak.


Details can be found here:

https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2020/03/unspoken-test-of-rohrs-nigeria-team.html


I used to be an advocate for including local players in the National team set up. This was until I moved to Naijaria and tried watching league games and practices.

Yes, there are naturally talented players with exquisite ball juggling skills but there are just raw. People used to laugh and snicker that a player can go overseas and train for one month and become a 'better' player but it very likely to happen. It happens because you get not just proper training but you get improvement in nutrition and other physiological aspects of being a footballer/athlete.

We badly need a "Technical Director" for our National Team program. The age-grade teams still remain the major platform from whence we see players who might make the transition from a local based player to an international-based player and then to the National team. Until then, we are left to use players who are fundamentally sound in the tactical aspect of the game over those who might have way better raw talent.

Other African teams are faced with the same problems. Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco and CIV have a significant diaspora community who play football and their FAs face the same issue with folks questioning if they are 'authentic' enough.

The world is changing. We better adapt or be left behind...

More and more of our skilled labour in ALL facets of human endeavor are based overseas... so why should it be different with Football? So their kids assuming they are good enough should not see Naijaria as an option.

Naijaria should see the number of Naijarians (kids of Naijarian parentage) playing in the NFL (National Football League). They are prized athletes. They are also in the NCAAs dominating and excelling in track and field, basketball, etc... should they also be discriminated against? The only difference in track and field is that there is an objective way of measuring excellence. Football, on the other hand, is a tad different... A national team coach does not have the luxury of teaching a player the technical rudiments of the game. They are expected to have learned those at their respective clubs.

What the NFF should do is to keep sanitizing Youth football and getting rid of age frauds. So when we see a 'young' player we can genuinely be excited about his prospects... scouts can pick them up and send them to teams where their football education will continue. The NPFL should also play a role by marketing their stars. They should be the ones trumpeting how good their players are. I haven't seen a match day advertorial in Naija or online advertising or promoting a player as a star attraction... it is the usual Naija, "trust me, we have good players..."

Good players are not "Choosin materials", guys who can juggle from sun up to sun down but can't do a basic pass and move or know how to hold a line...

The world is changing. We better adapt or be left behind...


prepaid, how many times i call ya name? just once ....on a normal circumstance , i would have called it 3 times....Raw talent will always be there , be it local of foreign. I do not agree that foreign players are better than Locals( especially if both parties are on a level playing field ) what you failed to include in your piece , is "MONEY"..that factors a lot ...The amount of money invested in sports in the WEST is no joke. You have folks making big time money training and creating programs for the development of sports...however back home players aren't that fortunate due to hardship etc. Take those locals abroad and see them perform

The issue is some Nigerians have this mentality that everything foreign is better ,,this has been embedded in the heads of folks for many years


Bia, BigTurkey, try to follow the topic on hand.

It is not about foreign being better.

There's a gap in the development of our local players. It is not because of lack of talent.

The funny thing is in the USA, you hear this all the time people who claim that they know many street ballers (basketball) who are better than the pros. Basketball in the USA is the equivalent to football for us. And coaches will tell you the same thing... that players who go through structured coaching might not be as talented but they are coachable and you win on a consistent basis with them.

The challenge remains how we can provide the local-based players with the platform to showcase their skills without sacrificing the need to win now.

Is it the job of the National team coach to give them opportunities? That's the critical question we have to ask.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:28 pm 
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aruako1 wrote:
vancity eagle wrote:
the idea that you play "African born" players in the "rough" African games is silly.

No team on the planet would play different sets of players depending on the opposition or the terrain.

We had a stupid idea a while ago that we should use "local" players for rough and tough african qualifirers. The stupidity of that is WHO DO YOU USE IN THE WORLD CUP ?

Do you stick with the "local" players who will likely be completely exposed when playing the likes of Spain, Argentina etc. or do you then call up your "euro based" players, and if you do that you hadn't played them in the qualifiers so you hadn't BUILT A TEAM.

We build a TEAM period, WITH OUR BEST INGREDIENTS, no matter where they play or were born. Whether we are playing on pristine green pitches against England, or a rugged cow grazing stretch of dirt against Sierra Leone. YOU HAVE THE SAME TEAM.

Now you can make minor adjustments WITHIN YOUR 23 SQUAD, to improve your chances within that given circumstance, but you do not wholesale change the team.

Another caveat is that "Nigerian born" players who go abroad and play for the Chelsea's and Leicesters also tend to not want to play the "jambody" African soccer, so they in essence become "europeanized" in that regard.

Again the idea that we should lineup Enyimba against Sierre Leone is idiotic and counter productive. There were many of those who advocated such in the past.

Look at how backwards a team like Ghana are, where the new coach has called up homebased defenders and left out Spanish based Mohammed Salisu, who is being courted by European giants. Are we not glad this type of nonsense has long been exterminated from our beloved SE.

WE ARE IN A NEW ERA OF SUPER EAGLES.

An era where the likes of Sadiq Umar, Emmanuel Dennis, Chidera Ejuke, Josh Maja, Mikel Agu all having good seasons cannot get into our team.

These players would have been shoe ins in the Keshi era (corruption not withstanding)

and it will only get worse (more competative) and in essence better for the welfare of SE when more dual nationals join ship and other youth prospects start to materialize. We are on route to having a deadly squad for 2022, and for me being a SE fan has never been this enjoyable.

The haters will have to follow a new sport because SE is never going back to those garbage days when any "hey you" can come to "fight for shirts"

Thank God that those horrific days are OVER.

Somebody calling Algeria "nothing special" This is a team that just dismantled Colombia 3-0 They have been integrating French players since 2013 and it paid off with their WC in 2014 and finally just now paid off within Africa after it had not lived up to the expectations.

This is the way football is today, and also I want to stress that bringing in "foreign born" does not in anyway mean we cannot AT THE SAME TIME develop youth players. The likes of CHukwueze, Osimehn, Ndidi are proof of this.

But sentiments are now over. Only the best moving forward.


The Enyimba team of the mid-2000s would have qualified for the 2006 WC. Sometimes you consider terrain when choosing players for a game

Please delete this post as it is void of any fact or reality? The team was good no doubt, but they were beaten by how many by Inter again?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:40 am 
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Damunk wrote:
Houston we have a problem.
Is this supposed to be a deduction from Cellular's post? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Dude, you’d help yourself much more by self-reporting to Broadmoor... :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:59 am 
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Gotti wrote:
Damunk wrote:
Houston we have a problem.
Is this supposed to be a deduction from Cellular's post? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Dude, you’d help yourself much more by self-reporting to Broadmoor... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Guy, coincidentally I'm in and out of Broadmoor all the time.
Not too long ago it was to assess a very articulate guy of Nigerian descent.
Thinking about it now, there was something vaguely familiar about him, esp the way he kept referring me as.... 'dude'.
:taunt: :taunt: :taunt:

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:09 am 
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Cellular wrote:
Bigpokey24 wrote:
Cellular wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Quote:
. . . it is also a vastly different squad from any in the country's history. In 70 years of international football, Nigeria has never featured a squad that is so dependent on players with dual citizenship, many born outside Africa. That very characteristic is claimed to be the biggest asset of this team. The fans believe that players bred in Nigeria lack appropriate football education required to compete with the best in the world. But the rough and tumble of African soccer may well challenge that claim and that is where the Sierra Leonians step up.


Quote:
Then there is a psychological strength that is required to achieve a measure of consistency in the face of a different style of balling. The likes of Ebuehi, Iwobi, and Aina have clearly stories to tell about their initial starts for Nigeria and the challenges. The African arena presents a football education that isn't easily grasped in a European academy. If you cannot adapt to it, if you cannot re-learn some of the other European football education, and if you cannot man-up in the continental African style then the results may be bleak.


Details can be found here:

https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2020/03/unspoken-test-of-rohrs-nigeria-team.html


I used to be an advocate for including local players in the National team set up. This was until I moved to Naijaria and tried watching league games and practices.

Yes, there are naturally talented players with exquisite ball juggling skills but there are just raw. People used to laugh and snicker that a player can go overseas and train for one month and become a 'better' player but it very likely to happen. It happens because you get not just proper training but you get improvement in nutrition and other physiological aspects of being a footballer/athlete.

We badly need a "Technical Director" for our National Team program. The age-grade teams still remain the major platform from whence we see players who might make the transition from a local based player to an international-based player and then to the National team. Until then, we are left to use players who are fundamentally sound in the tactical aspect of the game over those who might have way better raw talent.

Other African teams are faced with the same problems. Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco and CIV have a significant diaspora community who play football and their FAs face the same issue with folks questioning if they are 'authentic' enough.

The world is changing. We better adapt or be left behind...

More and more of our skilled labour in ALL facets of human endeavor are based overseas... so why should it be different with Football? So their kids assuming they are good enough should not see Naijaria as an option.

Naijaria should see the number of Naijarians (kids of Naijarian parentage) playing in the NFL (National Football League). They are prized athletes. They are also in the NCAAs dominating and excelling in track and field, basketball, etc... should they also be discriminated against? The only difference in track and field is that there is an objective way of measuring excellence. Football, on the other hand, is a tad different... A national team coach does not have the luxury of teaching a player the technical rudiments of the game. They are expected to have learned those at their respective clubs.

What the NFF should do is to keep sanitizing Youth football and getting rid of age frauds. So when we see a 'young' player we can genuinely be excited about his prospects... scouts can pick them up and send them to teams where their football education will continue. The NPFL should also play a role by marketing their stars. They should be the ones trumpeting how good their players are. I haven't seen a match day advertorial in Naija or online advertising or promoting a player as a star attraction... it is the usual Naija, "trust me, we have good players..."

Good players are not "Choosin materials", guys who can juggle from sun up to sun down but can't do a basic pass and move or know how to hold a line...

The world is changing. We better adapt or be left behind...


prepaid, how many times i call ya name? just once ....on a normal circumstance , i would have called it 3 times....Raw talent will always be there , be it local of foreign. I do not agree that foreign players are better than Locals( especially if both parties are on a level playing field ) what you failed to include in your piece , is "MONEY"..that factors a lot ...The amount of money invested in sports in the WEST is no joke. You have folks making big time money training and creating programs for the development of sports...however back home players aren't that fortunate due to hardship etc. Take those locals abroad and see them perform

The issue is some Nigerians have this mentality that everything foreign is better ,,this has been embedded in the heads of folks for many years


Bia, BigTurkey, try to follow the topic on hand.
It is not about foreign being better. .
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
Fat chance of that happening!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:14 am 
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Cellular wrote:
Chief Gotti, is the National Team supposed to be a place for discovering and developing talent? The issue with team selection lies with NFF (in terms of philosophy) and the coach. I say the NFF because they ultimately decide on the criteria the coach is judged or measured. So if the coach is not judged by the bottomline (wins and losses) then he can afford to try local talent.

I used to be a very strong advocate for locally-based players until recently. I don't really want to go into what my own personal anecdotal experience was. But we really need to clean up how we keep records in the country. I will see a footballer who I swear is an excellent footballer and on further enquiry find out that he misses the age bracket that will make him a quality investment. And it is no fault of theirs. Most go into the football wilderness and toil and toil seeking for competent representation and by the time they get that type of representation, it is extremely challenging to find someone who will be willing to invest in a 'matured' asset. We just have to do better... the country has failed a lot of promising talent. We have to find a way to address this challenge.

As for your talk about the players who move abroad ending up becoming poorer players. Duh! It depends on what you term 'poorer' players. They might coach the spontaneity out of them... but they do coach consistency. Not try-your-luck football. For years there have been positions on the team due to prejudice that teams refuse to play Africans in... I have followed coaches in other sports who say the same exact thing that in the pros, it is not about getting it right it is about reducing the number of times you get it wrong. We like flair, we like players who players with flair. Brazilians and their FA have a running battle about the 'un-Brazilianess' of their teams. But they too have realized that football is changing... that being more efficient with the ball wins you more games as teams have found ways to contain teams that play with flair (giving up possession and reducing the space the teams have to play with in the offensive third of the field).

We don't have more quality players than Brazil. We don't have more quality players than Argentina. But they recognize that to get the best out of their players and for economic reasons, it is best to go overseas.

What the NFF and NPFL can do for football in Naijaria is to improve the documentation process in Naijaria.

So when you see a young talent on display, you have a degree of confidence that investing in such an asset will yield dividends in the long run.

Apparently, it is if you are a FOREIGN-BASED player like Francis Uzoho... :lol: :lol: :lol:

While this is merely a cheap Strawman Argument, since NOTHING that I wrote remotely suggests that the national team is “supposed to be a place for discovering and developing talent”, it’s apparently okay for you it is for FOREIGN-BASED (and/or foreign-born) prospects like the aforementioned Uzoho (whom even had a national team assistant coach deputized to him at his club), Maduka Okoye and even Tyrone Ebuehi who had played only a handful of club games when he was initially invited (but who had the better sense to reject that initial invitation) or Felix Agu (another who had the good sense to reject us to pursue German youth team dreams).

Meanwhile, I am not going to expend any energy on the other Strawman Argument of age, except to point out the factual reality that most of the foreign-based players who now populate the SE pool (including aforesaid Uzoho) were products of the same “records” system (to use the term liberally) as home-based players. Or did you think they got biological younger once their planes cleared NIGERIAN airspace?

Anyway, this is not really a topic that I desire to expend much intellectual capital on. Just tired of folks parroting the same old tiresome stereotypical cliches about home-based players and painting them all with the same intellectually-lazy brush instead of treating them just as we would foreign-based (and/or foreign-born) players and prospects - as INDIVIDUALS, worthy of the same individualized consideration and evaluation. When Sunday Oliseh, whom most would consider to be a pretty good technical coach even if just based on his stint at Fortuna Sittard, treated ALL players as individuals, he found several home-based players who were not only good enough for the squad but to actually start over their foreign-based counterparts.

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Last edited by Gotti on Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:21 am 
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Cellular wrote:
Chief Gotti, is the National Team supposed to be a place for discovering and developing talent? The issue with team selection lies with NFF (in terms of philosophy) and the coach. I say the NFF because they ultimately decide on the criteria the coach is judged or measured. So if the coach is not judged by the bottomline (wins and losses) then he can afford to try local talent.

I used to be a very strong advocate for locally-based players until recently. I don't really want to go into what my own personal anecdotal experience was. But we really need to clean up how we keep records in the country. I will see a footballer who I swear is an excellent footballer and on further enquiry find out that he misses the age bracket that will make him a quality investment. And it is no fault of theirs. Most go into the football wilderness and toil and toil seeking for competent representation and by the time they get that type of representation, it is extremely challenging to find someone who will be willing to invest in a 'matured' asset. We just have to do better... the country has failed a lot of promising talent. We have to find a way to address this challenge.

As for your talk about the players who move abroad ending up becoming poorer players. Duh! It depends on what you term 'poorer' players. They might coach the spontaneity out of them... but they do coach consistency. Not try-your-luck football. For years there have been positions on the team due to prejudice that teams refuse to play Africans in... I have followed coaches in other sports who say the same exact thing that in the pros, it is not about getting it right it is about reducing the number of times you get it wrong. We like flair, we like players who players with flair. Brazilians and their FA have a running battle about the 'un-Brazilianess' of their teams. But they too have realized that football is changing... that being more efficient with the ball wins you more games as teams have found ways to contain teams that play with flair (giving up possession and reducing the space the teams have to play with in the offensive third of the field).

We don't have more quality players than Brazil. We don't have more quality players than Argentina. But they recognize that to get the best out of their players and for economic reasons, it is best to go overseas.

What the NFF and NPFL can do for football in Naijaria is to improve the documentation process in Naijaria.

So when you see a young talent on display, you have a degree of confidence that investing in such an asset will yield dividends in the long run.

As in consistently POOR? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:03 am 
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vancity eagle wrote:
WE ARE IN A NEW ERA OF SUPER EAGLES.

An era where the likes of Sadiq Umar, Emmanuel Dennis, Chidera Ejuke, Josh Maja, Mikel Agu all having good seasons cannot get into our team.

These players would have been shoe ins in the Keshi era (corruption not withstanding)

and it will only get worse (more competative) and in essence better for the welfare of SE when more dual nationals join ship and other youth prospects start to materialize. We are on route to having a deadly squad for 2022, and for me being a SE fan has never been this enjoyable.

The haters will have to follow a new sport because SE is never going back to those garbage days when any "hey you" can come to "fight for shirts"

Thank God that those horrific days are OVER.

Somebody calling Algeria "nothing special" This is a team that just dismantled Colombia 3-0 They have been integrating French players since 2013 and it paid off with their WC in 2014 and finally just now paid off within Africa after it had not lived up to the expectations.

This is the way football is today, and also I want to stress that bringing in "foreign born" does not in anyway mean we cannot AT THE SAME TIME develop youth players. The likes of CHukwueze, Osimehn, Ndidi are proof of this.

But sentiments are now over. Only the best moving forward.


Whenever you try to drive home a point (a very useless point, nonetheless) about Rohr team, selection and tactics. Keshi name is always introduced in denigrating manner. ´Keshi era (corruption not withstanding). Keshi is not alive to defend himself, for posterity's sake, long after we are gone and this board remains, those reading this thread will know the truth.

Let´s be truthful with ourselves. If Keshi had fast tracked a GK in the Spanish 3rd division with only 180 minutes of First Team/Professional football and 5 national team caps (all pre WC friendlies) to the WC. You have screamed corruption at Keshi.

If Keshi had fast tracked a GK playing in 4th division in Germany to the SE. You would have shouted Super Corruption. Suddenly, it´s okay! We now have euphemism like young prospective talents, an eye for talent. lack of quality in that dept, etc .

I am surprised, Another great Nigerian hero, Sunday Mba has not be introduced into the conversation. Na your way to denigrate Keshi and Mba.

No other words can describe fast tracking GKs playing in lower leagues into the SE, other than corruption, using the SE to promote those players for a bigger transfer. Whether it´s done via the agents promoting the players into the SE or so-called scouts, it´s called corruption.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:32 pm 
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Gotti wrote:
Cellular wrote:
Chief Gotti, is the National Team supposed to be a place for discovering and developing talent?[/color][/b] The issue with team selection lies with NFF (in terms of philosophy) and the coach. I say the NFF because they ultimately decide on the criteria the coach is judged or measured. So if the coach is not judged by the bottomline (wins and losses) then he can afford to try local talent.

I used to be a very strong advocate for locally-based players until recently. I don't really want to go into what my own personal anecdotal experience was. But we really need to clean up how we keep records in the country. I will see a footballer who I swear is an excellent footballer and on further enquiry find out that he misses the age bracket that will make him a quality investment. And it is no fault of theirs. Most go into the football wilderness and toil and toil seeking for competent representation and by the time they get that type of representation, it is extremely challenging to find someone who will be willing to invest in a 'matured' asset. We just have to do better... the country has failed a lot of promising talent. We have to find a way to address this challenge.

As for your talk about the players who move abroad ending up becoming poorer players. Duh! It depends on what you term 'poorer' players. They might coach the spontaneity out of them... but they do coach consistency. Not try-your-luck football. For years there have been positions on the team due to prejudice that teams refuse to play Africans in... I have followed coaches in other sports who say the same exact thing that in the pros, it is not about getting it right it is about reducing the number of times you get it wrong. We like flair, we like players who players with flair. Brazilians and their FA have a running battle about the 'un-Brazilianess' of their teams. But they too have realized that football is changing... that being more efficient with the ball wins you more games as teams have found ways to contain teams that play with flair (giving up possession and reducing the space the teams have to play with in the offensive third of the field).

We don't have more quality players than Brazil. We don't have more quality players than Argentina. But they recognize that to get the best out of their players and for economic reasons, it is best to go overseas.

What the NFF and NPFL can do for football in Naijaria is to improve the documentation process in Naijaria.

So when you see a young talent on display, you have a degree of confidence that investing in such an asset will yield dividends in the long run.

Apparently, it is if you are a FOREIGN-BASED player like Francis Uzoho... :lol: :lol: :lol:

While this is merely a cheap Strawman Argument, since NOTHING that I wrote remotely suggests that the national team is “supposed to be a place for discovering and developing talent”, it’s apparently okay for you it is for FOREIGN-BASED (and/or foreign-born) prospects like the aforementioned Uzoho (whom even had a national team assistant coach deputized to him at his club), Maduka Okoye and even Tyrone Ebuehi who had played only a handful of club games when he was initially invited (but who had the better sense to reject that initial invitation) or Felix Agu (another who had the good sense to reject us to pursue German youth team dreams).

Meanwhile, I am not going to expend any energy on the other Strawman Argument of age, except to point out the factual reality that most of the foreign-based players who now populate the SE pool (including aforesaid Uzoho) were products of the same “records” system (to use the term liberally) as home-based players. Or did you think they got biological younger once their planes cleared NIGERIAN airspace?

Anyway, this is not really a topic that I desire to expend much intellectual capital on. Just tired of folks parroting the same old tiresome stereotypical cliches about home-based players and painting them all with the same intellectually-lazy brush instead of treating them just as we would foreign-based (and/or foreign-born) players and prospects - as INDIVIDUALS, worthy of the same individualized consideration and evaluation. When Sunday Oliseh, whom most would consider to be a pretty good technical coach even if just based on his stint at Fortuna Sittard, treated ALL players as individuals, he found several home-based players who were not only good enough for the squad but to actually start over their foreign-based counterparts.


I don't know how and why Oliseh should be used as an example of how to use players. He was an abject failure.

Regarding Rohr's choice on goalkeepers, Truetalk and a lot of forumers have pointed out local based talent who are as good if not better. It comes down again to the FA and Coach's choice. Since he is judged on wins and losses, I can't fault him.

I have repeatedly stated that the FA has to define what they want out of the National Team coach.

It is not a coincidence that Keshi succeeded by looking inwards and mixing the foreign-based with local-based players.

But this article is about Dual Citizen players... and the crux of my argument is that while they might not be as talented as the local players, they serve the coach's immediate goal of winning.

BTW, I have been one of the coach's biggest critic especially when he says he is going there to learn yet doesn't use players who can learn along with him.

If I were his boss, I will insist on him attending local league matches... at least one match a week minimum of 3 games in a month... I will insist on him identifying players worthy of a look. I once suggested here that the National Team coaches do like their American counterparts and help facilitate the professional development of players who have been deemed exceptional talent. That is my personal belief. But I also acknowledge the right of the coach to do what he deems fit for his job... as he will be judged based on wins and losses.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:36 pm 
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Cellular wrote:
Regarding Rohr's choice on goalkeepers, Truetalk and a lot of forumers have pointed out local based talent who are as good if not better. It comes down again to the FA and Coach's choice. Since he is judged on wins and losses, I can't fault him.
There is hardly a SE player who hasn't at some point been said not to be good enough because there is supposed to be some player somewhere under the bridge or wherever that is "better".

Even the great Mikel Obi was dismissed way before his time by those itching to move on to the imaginary next best thing. Like you and many have identified, it is down to the coach and what he deems best for the team. I guess we are all allowed to have opinions as fans. We are also allowed to talk rubbish with the 'confidence of ignorance', albeit with good intentions.

I prefer to give my opinion but without assuming I know better than those paid to do the job, who have better and more access to the players and what they do out of public view, and those who ultimately live and die by their decisions. Even in the days of 'dropology', you wouldn't find me talking about something I didn't know for sure, as if I was there witnessing the 'drop'.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:57 pm 
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fabio wrote:
vancity eagle wrote:
WE ARE IN A NEW ERA OF SUPER EAGLES.

An era where the likes of Sadiq Umar, Emmanuel Dennis, Chidera Ejuke, Josh Maja, Mikel Agu all having good seasons cannot get into our team.

These players would have been shoe ins in the Keshi era (corruption not withstanding)

and it will only get worse (more competative) and in essence better for the welfare of SE when more dual nationals join ship and other youth prospects start to materialize. We are on route to having a deadly squad for 2022, and for me being a SE fan has never been this enjoyable.

The haters will have to follow a new sport because SE is never going back to those garbage days when any "hey you" can come to "fight for shirts"

Thank God that those horrific days are OVER.

Somebody calling Algeria "nothing special" This is a team that just dismantled Colombia 3-0 They have been integrating French players since 2013 and it paid off with their WC in 2014 and finally just now paid off within Africa after it had not lived up to the expectations.

This is the way football is today, and also I want to stress that bringing in "foreign born" does not in anyway mean we cannot AT THE SAME TIME develop youth players. The likes of CHukwueze, Osimehn, Ndidi are proof of this.

But sentiments are now over. Only the best moving forward.


Whenever you try to drive home a point (a very useless point, nonetheless) about Rohr team, selection and tactics. Keshi name is always introduced in denigrating manner. ´Keshi era (corruption not withstanding). Keshi is not alive to defend himself, for posterity's sake, long after we are gone and this board remains, those reading this thread will know the truth.

Let´s be truthful with ourselves. If Keshi had fast tracked a GK in the Spanish 3rd division with only 180 minutes of First Team/Professional football and 5 national team caps (all pre WC friendlies) to the WC. You have screamed corruption at Keshi.

If Keshi had fast tracked a GK playing in 4th division in Germany to the SE. You would have shouted Super Corruption. Suddenly, it´s okay! We now have euphemism like young prospective talents, an eye for talent. lack of quality in that dept, etc .

I am surprised, Another great Nigerian hero, Sunday Mba has not be introduced into the conversation. Na your way to denigrate Keshi and Mba.

No other words can describe fast tracking GKs playing in lower leagues into the SE, other than corruption, using the SE to promote those players for a bigger transfer. Whether it´s done via the agents promoting the players into the SE or so-called scouts, it´s called corruption.



Keshi had a great goalkeeper (Enyeama) so what would be the need to call up inexperienced keepers

Rohr had to deal with Enyeama's retirement, and Ikeme's unfortunate cancer, and goalkeepers like Akpeyi proved to be poor.

You are comparing apples to oranges.


The difference between Rohr and Keshi is that Rohr has called up inexperienced players into positions where WE LACK OPTIONS, while Keshi did it in positions where we had PLENTY OF SUPERIOR options.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:37 am 
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Cellular wrote:
I don't know how and why Oliseh should be used as an example of how to use players. He was an abject failure.

Regarding Rohr's choice on goalkeepers, Truetalk and a lot of forumers have pointed out local based talent who are as good if not better. It comes down again to the FA and Coach's choice. Since he is judged on wins and losses, I can't fault him.

I have repeatedly stated that the FA has to define what they want out of the National Team coach.

It is not a coincidence that Keshi succeeded by looking inwards and mixing the foreign-based with local-based players.

But this article is about Dual Citizen players... and the crux of my argument is that while they might not be as talented as the local players, they serve the coach's immediate goal of winning.

BTW, I have been one of the coach's biggest critic especially when he says he is going there to learn yet doesn't use players who can learn along with him.

If I were his boss, I will insist on him attending local league matches... at least one match a week minimum of 3 games in a month... I will insist on him identifying players worthy of a look. I once suggested here that the National Team coaches do like their American counterparts and help facilitate the professional development of players who have been deemed exceptional talent. That is my personal belief. But I also acknowledge the right of the coach to do what he deems fit for his job... as he will be judged based on wins and losses.

How was Oliseh an "abject failure"? Because he resigned?

Certainly not his result, losing only one game out of 6 (0-2 away to DR Congo)...
Rohr also lost 1 out of his first 6 games, 0-2 at HOME to SA (first-ever competitive loss to SA).

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:47 am 
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Damunk wrote:
Cellular wrote:
Regarding Rohr's choice on goalkeepers, Truetalk and a lot of forumers have pointed out local based talent who are as good if not better. It comes down again to the FA and Coach's choice. Since he is judged on wins and losses, I can't fault him.
There is hardly a SE player who hasn't at some point been said not to be good enough because there is supposed to be some player somewhere under the bridge or wherever that is "better".

Even the great Mikel Obi was dismissed way before his time by those itching to move on to the imaginary next best thing. Like you and many have identified, it is down to the coach and what he deems best for the team. I guess we are all allowed to have opinions as fans. We are also allowed to talk rubbish with the 'confidence of ignorance', albeit with good intentions.

I prefer to give my opinion but without assuming I know better than those paid to do the job, who have better and more access to the players and what they do out of public view, and those who ultimately live and die by their decisions. Even in the days of 'dropology', you wouldn't find me talking about something I didn't know for sure, as if I was there witnessing the 'drop'.

Nothing bores (or is as boorish) as intellectual dishonesty...

Still not particularly interested in prolonging this banal discourse, but nonetheless suffice it to note yet another Strawman Argument, as if there's a dispute about the coach's privilege to select his own players. Even when Rohr pulled an unknown Bulgarian-based rabbit out of the proverbial hat, still defended his right and privilege to select any 'Jambody' or Ogba-na-Chance' that takes his fancy, but what does that have to do with the thesis that "home-based players" (not particular players mind you) are simply not good enough. SMH
>

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:49 am 
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Gotti wrote:
Damunk wrote:
Cellular wrote:
Regarding Rohr's choice on goalkeepers, Truetalk and a lot of forumers have pointed out local based talent who are as good if not better. It comes down again to the FA and Coach's choice. Since he is judged on wins and losses, I can't fault him.
There is hardly a SE player who hasn't at some point been said not to be good enough because there is supposed to be some player somewhere under the bridge or wherever that is "better".

Even the great Mikel Obi was dismissed way before his time by those itching to move on to the imaginary next best thing. Like you and many have identified, it is down to the coach and what he deems best for the team. I guess we are all allowed to have opinions as fans. We are also allowed to talk rubbish with the 'confidence of ignorance', albeit with good intentions.

I prefer to give my opinion but without assuming I know better than those paid to do the job, who have better and more access to the players and what they do out of public view, and those who ultimately live and die by their decisions. Even in the days of 'dropology', you wouldn't find me talking about something I didn't know for sure, as if I was there witnessing the 'drop'.

Nothing bores (or is as boorish) as intellectual dishonesty...

Still not particularly interested in prolonging this banal discourse, but >...

Yeah, right.
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Quote:
...nonetheless suffice it to note yet another Strawman Argument, as if there's a dispute about the coach's privilege to select his own players. Even when Rohr pulled an unknown Bulgarian-based rabbit out of the proverbial hat, still defended his right and privilege to select any 'Jambody' or Ogba-na-Chance' that takes his fancy, but what does that have to do with the thesis that "home-based players" (not particular players mind you) are simply not good enough. SMH
That right there is a point of "intellectual dishonesty" which only you insist on infusing and then 'dragging'.
The context in which the poor state of home-based players' form has become a problem for national team selection was clearly explained by Cellular and it wasn't a case of them "simply not being good enough". He was at pains to point out how much untapped "talent" there is in the country.

If you are truly not interested in "prolonging banal and strawman arguments" (and so far there is no evidence to support this your hypocritical stance), then maybe you can stick to the more pertinent issues of training facilities, nutrition, tactics, strategy and the quality of general football education, all highlighted in the earlier "discourse", rather than accuse others of the very thing you are doing. :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:39 am 
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The current reigning African champions Algeria won the AFCON last year with a squad full of players born and raised in France. Many of them are French citizens and played for France at youth team level.

kalani JR wrote:
The great Senegalese team of the early 2000s was full of Parisian kids. We might overrate "Africa" as an obstacle, after wen there was a World Cup in Africa Spain won it.


Last edited by wiseone on Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:28 am 
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wiseone wrote:
The current reigning African champions Algeria won the AFCOn last year with a squad full of players born and raised in France. Many of them are French citizens and played for France at youth team level.

kalani JR wrote:
The great Senegalese team of the early 2000s was full of Parisian kids. We might overrate "Africa" as an obstacle, after wen there was a World Cup in Africa Spain won it.

The Egyptian team that ruled Africa for years were....

The issue is, we need to build from home as well. This Pinnickism that everything must come from abroad is not good for football development.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:29 pm 
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Bad example. Are you seriously using an Egyptian team that got dominant at the AFCON 14 years ago as a barometer for contemporary success on this issue? After Egypt last won the AFCON they did not even qualify for the next 5 tournaments and were absent from the AFCON for 10 years!

fabio wrote:
The Egyptian team that ruled Africa for years were....

The issue is, we need to build from home as well. This Pinnickism that everything must come from abroad is not good for football development.


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