Cybereagles

The Undisputed Number One Home for All Super Eagles Fans
It is currently Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:20 am

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:39 am
Posts: 17955
Location: Super Eagles Homeland
Otitokoro,

One thing I definitely agree with you is that Ehizibue is the best RB based on that call up v Sierra Leone. However, it is not always about the best individual in a particular position. Rather, it is about the best guy in that position who fits with the team. In essence, team chemistry. Right now, I believe Rohr will trust Awaziem's ability to play as part of his team than he would trust Ehizibue. Practice is not exactly game situation. Neither is club play exactly SE game situation. After debuting as a sub, I expect Ehizibue to become the starter, bar none.

Now let me clarify a bit on my thinking on why Rohr started Kalu in that Seychelles' game in 2018. Note that in that game, Vic Mo had just retired. Note that Rohr did not call up Moses Simon. Note that Chukwueze had not yet received his first ever SE call up.

Now who was called up in that game that Rohr could have used wide? Musa, Iwobi, Kalu, and Onyekuru. That was it. Ofcourse, Musa started on the right. You will think that Iwobi would have started on the left. He had done so in previous games. However, Iwobi had fallen out of favor as a wide player considering his poor WC game v Croatia. He did play after the Croatia game but only as a sub in central mid (v Iceland) and a tactical sub for Omeruo (v Argentina) as Nigeria chased the game. In essence, Rohr had soured on Iwobi as a wide forward. You will note that since then Iwobi has primarily featured as an advanced center midfielder for Nigeria. Now how about Onyekuru? It was his first SE invitation after a long injury hiatus. Moreover, he was a fringe player with the SE just as he is today. Obviously, Kalu was preferred based on training performance and coach's confidence that he fit the team better than Onyekuru who did not exactly impress in 2 internationals as a sub before then. Thus, it is clear that Rohr was limited. In my view, Kalu probably would not have started if Moses Simon was considered fit and invited for that game.

The above is just my logic on what will be the decision on Ehizibue if his first game is not an international friendly. The lesson should come from Aina's debut as a sub for Echiejile when the former was clearly the better option to the vastly declined Echiejile. In my view, Rohr will not tamper with team psyche by disrespecting a starter (Awaziem) who, at times played at high levels, in order to introduce a quality talent like Ehizibue. Ehizibue may enter that game as a sub and, if outstanding, will then start the second game. It is a subtle acknowledgment of respect that his players will expect.

Otitokoro wrote:
Prof,
I hear your argument BUT the fact is Rohr has done it before as you stated, especially with Kalu in an ANCQ. I just struggle to believe that he would bench Ehizibue, who is the most solid, natural RB on the squad for a make shift RB, especially when you consider the schoolboy mistakes Awaziem made in the Lesotho match (lucky not to be sent off for a blatant red card - last man foul on a Lesotho attacker, as well as his own goal).
Rohr tends to have greater faith in players from Leagues he is familiar with (France and Germany). Ehizibue is, not only playing for a renowned Bundesliga team, but is currently one of the best RB's in the Bundesliga. Again, I really doubt he would be on the bench for any other RB in that squad, irrespective of whether or not he is a first timer.

Enugu II wrote:
Otitokoro,
First, we all know that the Sierra Leone games are off. I believe they will be rescheduled for the summer. If the virus is still impeding at that time, at least one Sierra Leone game will be played the week of September as the one of two competitive games that week (The other is a WCQ). In any case, how many times has Rohr started a guy who he is yet to test out in a friendly? Two times! One was a meaningless WC qualifier v Algeria (Anthony Nwakaeme) after Nigeria had surely gone through and then in an ANCQ v Seychelles (Kalu). That is it. Think about this Echiejile was clearly over the hill when Aina came to camp and yet in Aina's debut, he had to come off the bench for Echiejile! What does that tell you? Rohr ain't going to take a chance on Ehizibue when Awaziem has delivered in games. Ehizibue and Dessers will likely come off the bench in their first games, except if they play in a friendly for SE before a qualifying game.

_________________
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:33 pm
Posts: 9395
Enugu II wrote:
Otitokoro,

One thing I definitely agree with you is that Ehizibue is the best RB based on that call up v Sierra Leone. However, it is not always about the best individual in a particular position. Rather, it is about the best guy in that position who fits with the team. In essence, team chemistry. Right now, I believe Rohr will trust Awaziem's ability to play as part of his team than he would trust Ehizibue. Practice is not exactly game situation. Neither is club play exactly SE game situation. After debuting as a sub, I expect Ehizibue to become the starter, bar none.

Now let me clarify a bit on my thinking on why Rohr started Kalu in that Seychelles' game in 2018. Note that in that game, Vic Mo had just retired. Note that Rohr did not call up Moses Simon. Note that Chukwueze had not yet received his first ever SE call up.

Now who was called up in that game that Rohr could have used wide? Musa, Iwobi, Kalu, and Onyekuru. That was it. Ofcourse, Musa started on the right. You will think that Iwobi would have started on the left. He had done so in previous games. However, Iwobi had fallen out of favor as a wide player considering his poor WC game v Croatia. He did play after the Croatia game but only as a sub in central mid (v Iceland) and a tactical sub for Omeruo (v Argentina) as Nigeria chased the game. In essence, Rohr had soured on Iwobi as a wide forward. You will note that since then Iwobi has primarily featured as an advanced center midfielder for Nigeria. Now how about Onyekuru? It was his first SE invitation after a long injury hiatus. Moreover, he was a fringe player with the SE just as he is today. Obviously, Kalu was preferred based on training performance and coach's confidence that he fit the team better than Onyekuru who did not exactly impress in 2 internationals as a sub before then. Thus, it is clear that Rohr was limited. In my view, Kalu probably would not have started if Moses Simon was considered fit and invited for that game.

The above is just my logic on what will be the decision on Ehizibue if his first game is not an international friendly. The lesson should come from Aina's debut as a sub for Echiejile when the former was clearly the better option to the vastly declined Echiejile. In my view, Rohr will not tamper with team psyche by disrespecting a starter (Awaziem) who, at times played at high levels, in order to introduce a quality talent like Ehizibue. Ehizibue may enter that game as a sub and, if outstanding, will then start the second game. It is a subtle acknowledgment of respect that his players will expect.

Otitokoro wrote:
Prof,
I hear your argument BUT the fact is Rohr has done it before as you stated, especially with Kalu in an ANCQ. I just struggle to believe that he would bench Ehizibue, who is the most solid, natural RB on the squad for a make shift RB, especially when you consider the schoolboy mistakes Awaziem made in the Lesotho match (lucky not to be sent off for a blatant red card - last man foul on a Lesotho attacker, as well as his own goal).
Rohr tends to have greater faith in players from Leagues he is familiar with (France and Germany). Ehizibue is, not only playing for a renowned Bundesliga team, but is currently one of the best RB's in the Bundesliga. Again, I really doubt he would be on the bench for any other RB in that squad, irrespective of whether or not he is a first timer.

Enugu II wrote:
Otitokoro,
First, we all know that the Sierra Leone games are off. I believe they will be rescheduled for the summer. If the virus is still impeding at that time, at least one Sierra Leone game will be played the week of September as the one of two competitive games that week (The other is a WCQ). In any case, how many times has Rohr started a guy who he is yet to test out in a friendly? Two times! One was a meaningless WC qualifier v Algeria (Anthony Nwakaeme) after Nigeria had surely gone through and then in an ANCQ v Seychelles (Kalu). That is it. Think about this Echiejile was clearly over the hill when Aina came to camp and yet in Aina's debut, he had to come off the bench for Echiejile! What does that tell you? Rohr ain't going to take a chance on Ehizibue when Awaziem has delivered in games. Ehizibue and Dessers will likely come off the bench in their first games, except if they play in a friendly for SE before a qualifying game.

Interestingly comments from Prof and Otitokoro! This was what CE used to be known for I.e. robust debates :clap:

_________________
I am happy


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 7:02 pm
Posts: 7990
Prof,
Thanks for your comments and your thoughts sharing. Would like to address some of your comments sequentially.
1. Regarding 'fitting the team', I believe Rohr would not have invited anyone who he didn't think had the key elements of fitting into the team. Kalu was sourced because Rohr was confident he exhibited the right elements core to his team dynamics. Rohr apparently had discussions with both Ehizibue and Dessers about what to expect and what the expectations were of invitees, prior to extending an invite to them. So, I am not sure that is a disqualifier from becoming a debut starter on the team.
2. Reading the tea leaves, Rohr (and not suprisingly) holds both the German Bundesliga and the French Championat to very high esteems, having played for the Mannshaft, as well as played for and coached Girondins Bordeaux. Rohr is fully congnizant of the quality Ehizibue brings to the table, having monitored him for over a year and assessed his performance each week.
Also, considering the fact that Kingsley is the only true RB on the team and understands the RB role and expectations much more than any one of the other transplants (Awaziem plays CD for Leganes, Aina plays as LWB for Torino and Shehu is a midfielder), it stands to reason that Kingsley will be the favorite to start.
3. Revisiting the Seychelles game and Kalu starting, I believe Simon was not invited because he was going thru a rough patch - he had just moved to Levante and was struggling for game time. Made sense that he wasn't invited. Regarding Onyekuru (and I know a lot of CE folks share contrary views), I don't believe he was/is a better candidate in comparison to the wingers we currently have and frankly, IMO, certainly not good enough for the SE. I dont think Rohr believes he provides the type and level of wing play that Rohr is looking for and hence, his ranking in the pecking order. It will likely get worse for him once Lookman joins the fold.
4. Regaring the WC, Iwobi has always been known to be an AM and has had limited success as a winger. Rohrs insistance on playing Mikel (and playing him as AM) was the root cause of Iwobi being a benchwarmer during the WC (you recall the flak from Mourinho and Okocha comments about the silliness in playing Mikel as and AM, instead of DM where he is better suited).
Hope this helps clarify my position.

Enugu II wrote:
Otitokoro,
One thing I definitely agree with you is that Ehizibue is the best RB based on that call up v Sierra Leone. However, it is not always about the best individual in a particular position. Rather, it is about the best guy in that position who fits with the team myb]In essence, team chemistry.[/b] Right now, I believe Rohr will trust Awaziem's ability to play as part of his team than he would trust Ehizibue. Practice is not exactly game situation. Neither is club play exactly SE game situation. After debuting as a sub, I expect Ehizibue to become the starter, bar none.

Now let me clarify a bit on my thinking on why Rohr started Kalu in that Seychelles' game in 2018. Note that in that game, Vic Mo had just retired. Note that Rohr did not call up Moses Simon. Note that Chukwueze had not yet received his first ever SE call up.

Now who was called up in that game that Rohr could have used wide? Musa, Iwobi, Kalu, and Onyekuru. That was it. Ofcourse, Musa started on the right. You will think that Iwobi would have started on the left. He had done so in previous games. However, Iwobi had fallen out of favor as a wide player considering his poor WC game v Croatia. He did play after the Croatia game but only as a sub in central mid (v Iceland) and a tactical sub for Omeruo (v Argentina) as Nigeria chased the game. In essence, Rohr had soured on Iwobi as a wide forward. You will note that since then Iwobi has primarily featured as an advanced center midfielder for Nigeria. Now how about Onyekuru? It was his first SE invitation after a long injury hiatus. Moreover, he was a fringe player with the SE just as he is today. Obviously, Kalu was preferred based on training performance and coach's confidence that he fit the team better than Onyekuru who did not exactly impress in 2 internationals as a sub before then. Thus, it is clear that Rohr was limited. In my view, Kalu probably would not have started if Moses Simon was considered fit and invited for that game.

The above is just my logic on what will be the decision on Ehizibue if his first game is not an international friendly. The lesson should come from Aina's debut as a sub for Echiejile when the former was clearly the better option to the vastly declined Echiejile. In my view, Rohr will not tamper with team psyche by disrespecting a starter (Awaziem) who, at times played at high levels, in order to introduce a quality talent like Ehizibue. Ehizibue may enter that game as a sub and, if outstanding, will then start the second game. It is a subtle acknowledgment of respect that his players will expect.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 2:43 am
Posts: 3183
Location: Ibadan/Essex
Will be surprised if Rohr is still the coach when the matches come up.

_________________
Truth needs no support system, it can stand firmly on its legs!!

COYS


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group