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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:34 pm 
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Location: Super Eagles Homeland
Quote:
1. These are poorly skilled players unworthy of playing for the Super Eagles.

This myth has existed since the mid-1990s when the Super Eagles dominated Africa with a team that was made almost entirely by foreign-based players. In fact, at the time, the team starters were all based outside the country. Although the national team continues to constitute players drawn from outside the country, two squads built during qualifiers for the 2002 World Cup and the one that won the 2013 AFCON included multiple players who were playing for local clubs and some others who were initially invited to the national team while playing for local teams.


Quote:
4. Players in the local league cannot make it in Europe.

We have already given the examples of Odey and Akas in answering the previous question. While it is true that players coming from the local league often have to use the route of Scandinavian leagues or North African leagues on their way to bigger leagues in Europe is not an aberration. Many players from Europe follow a similar route. Going directly to the Top 5 leagues in Europe is not a piece of cake. Numerous academy players groomed by clubs in those leagues fail to make it at the Top 5 level and moving elsewhere is not exactly an unusual pathway to success. Moreover, making it in the Scandinavian countries is certainly making it in Europe except the map has changed.



Details can be found by clicking on the link below:
https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2020/03/five-myths-about-local-players-in-npfl.html

_________________
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:31 pm 
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Posts: 9390
Enugu II wrote:
Quote:
1. These are poorly skilled players unworthy of playing for the Super Eagles.

This myth has existed since the mid-1990s when the Super Eagles dominated Africa with a team that was made almost entirely by foreign-based players. In fact, at the time, the team starters were all based outside the country. Although the national team continues to constitute players drawn from outside the country, two squads built during qualifiers for the 2002 World Cup and the one that won the 2013 AFCON included multiple players who were playing for local clubs and some others who were initially invited to the national team while playing for local teams.


Quote:
4. Players in the local league cannot make it in Europe.

We have already given the examples of Odey and Akas in answering the previous question. While it is true that players coming from the local league often have to use the route of Scandinavian leagues or North African leagues on their way to bigger leagues in Europe is not an aberration. Many players from Europe follow a similar route. Going directly to the Top 5 leagues in Europe is not a piece of cake. Numerous academy players groomed by clubs in those leagues fail to make it at the Top 5 level and moving elsewhere is not exactly an unusual pathway to success. Moreover, making it in the Scandinavian countries is certainly making it in Europe except the map has changed.



Details can be found by clicking on the link below:
https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2020/03/five-myths-about-local-players-in-npfl.html

Chima Akas and Stephen Odey are poor examples as they are bench warmers, Utin hardly makes the match day squad for his club.
Your examples of the 2002 WCQs and 2013 AFCON winning squads hides the reality.
In the 2002 WCQs, we had Eric Ejiofor, play regularly and Justice Christopher coming off the bench. The WC ticket was secured by a mainly foreign based squad and in our final match in PH against Ghana, no home based player started.
In 2013, we had Oboabona as a regular starter before Sunday Mba started playing from the knockout stages. The short winger from Rangers, Ejike Uzoenyi, played the final minutes of the SF against Mali after the game had been won. In essence, 2013 AFCON was won by the foreign based players.
The last home based player to leave the country and sign for a team in the Big 5 European leagues was Taiye Taiwo in 2005, when he signed for Marseilles.
The performance of our local clubs in African Club competitions is another pointer to the level of the standard of the Nigerian league and players. Even the home based SE failed to qualify for both WAFU and CHAN championships.
Prof, I understand your love for the local league and players but the sad reality today is that no player from the NPFL is ready for the SE except we practice affirmative action.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:42 pm 
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Posts: 17955
Location: Super Eagles Homeland
Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Quote:
1. These are poorly skilled players unworthy of playing for the Super Eagles.

This myth has existed since the mid-1990s when the Super Eagles dominated Africa with a team that was made almost entirely by foreign-based players. In fact, at the time, the team starters were all based outside the country. Although the national team continues to constitute players drawn from outside the country, two squads built during qualifiers for the 2002 World Cup and the one that won the 2013 AFCON included multiple players who were playing for local clubs and some others who were initially invited to the national team while playing for local teams.


Quote:
4. Players in the local league cannot make it in Europe.

We have already given the examples of Odey and Akas in answering the previous question. While it is true that players coming from the local league often have to use the route of Scandinavian leagues or North African leagues on their way to bigger leagues in Europe is not an aberration. Many players from Europe follow a similar route. Going directly to the Top 5 leagues in Europe is not a piece of cake. Numerous academy players groomed by clubs in those leagues fail to make it at the Top 5 level and moving elsewhere is not exactly an unusual pathway to success. Moreover, making it in the Scandinavian countries is certainly making it in Europe except the map has changed.



Details can be found by clicking on the link below:
https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2020/03/five-myths-about-local-players-in-npfl.html

Chima Akas and Stephen Odey are poor examples as they are bench warmers, Utin hardly makes the match day squad for his club.
Your examples of the 2002 WCQs and 2013 AFCON winning squads hides the reality.
In the 2002 WCQs, we had Eric Ejiofor, play regularly and Justice Christopher coming off the bench. The WC ticket was secured by a mainly foreign based squad and in our final match in PH against Ghana, no home based player started.
In 2013, we had Oboabona as a regular starter before Sunday Mba started playing from the knockout stages. The short winger from Rangers, Ejike Uzoenyi, played the final minutes of the SF against Mali after the game had been won. In essence, 2013 AFCON was won by the foreign based players.
The last home based player to leave the country and sign for a team in the Big 5 European leagues was Taiye Taiwo in 2005, when he signed for Marseilles.
The performance of our local clubs in African Club competitions is another pointer to the level of the standard of the Nigerian league and players. Even the home based SE failed to qualify for both WAFU and CHAN championships.
Prof, I understand your love for the local league and players but the sad reality today is that no player from the NPFL is ready for the SE except we practice affirmative action.


Dammy,

The idea is that these home-based players did play parts in the 2002 qualifiers including Duke Udi. That should never be underestimated. And this is years after Bonfrere told us it was not possible. Rohr is telling us the same even after Keshi proved otherwise by winning it all with multiple home-based players in that cup-winning squad. Think about the squad and not just starters. Same in 2013.

On Odey and Akas, they need not be starters. The point is that they are getting minutes ahead of players who had been in the foreign system for years. On the Taiwo example, I think it is far-fetched. Is your expectation that people should walk from the NPFL to a Big 5 league? That is not my expectation because there are many things beyond just talent that get you into those leagues as starters. Experience playing consistently in top leagues of Europe matter in who teams in those leagues recruit. It isn't just about talent. Take the EPL for instance, even several top academy players produced in their system fail to get a look in immediately. How then do you expect an NPFL player to get a look in?

_________________
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:33 pm
Posts: 9390
Enugu II wrote:
Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Quote:
1. These are poorly skilled players unworthy of playing for the Super Eagles.

This myth has existed since the mid-1990s when the Super Eagles dominated Africa with a team that was made almost entirely by foreign-based players. In fact, at the time, the team starters were all based outside the country. Although the national team continues to constitute players drawn from outside the country, two squads built during qualifiers for the 2002 World Cup and the one that won the 2013 AFCON included multiple players who were playing for local clubs and some others who were initially invited to the national team while playing for local teams.


Quote:
4. Players in the local league cannot make it in Europe.

We have already given the examples of Odey and Akas in answering the previous question. While it is true that players coming from the local league often have to use the route of Scandinavian leagues or North African leagues on their way to bigger leagues in Europe is not an aberration. Many players from Europe follow a similar route. Going directly to the Top 5 leagues in Europe is not a piece of cake. Numerous academy players groomed by clubs in those leagues fail to make it at the Top 5 level and moving elsewhere is not exactly an unusual pathway to success. Moreover, making it in the Scandinavian countries is certainly making it in Europe except the map has changed.



Details can be found by clicking on the link below:
https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2020/03/five-myths-about-local-players-in-npfl.html

Chima Akas and Stephen Odey are poor examples as they are bench warmers, Utin hardly makes the match day squad for his club.
Your examples of the 2002 WCQs and 2013 AFCON winning squads hides the reality.
In the 2002 WCQs, we had Eric Ejiofor, play regularly and Justice Christopher coming off the bench. The WC ticket was secured by a mainly foreign based squad and in our final match in PH against Ghana, no home based player started.
In 2013, we had Oboabona as a regular starter before Sunday Mba started playing from the knockout stages. The short winger from Rangers, Ejike Uzoenyi, played the final minutes of the SF against Mali after the game had been won. In essence, 2013 AFCON was won by the foreign based players.
The last home based player to leave the country and sign for a team in the Big 5 European leagues was Taiye Taiwo in 2005, when he signed for Marseilles.
The performance of our local clubs in African Club competitions is another pointer to the level of the standard of the Nigerian league and players. Even the home based SE failed to qualify for both WAFU and CHAN championships.
Prof, I understand your love for the local league and players but the sad reality today is that no player from the NPFL is ready for the SE except we practice affirmative action.


Dammy,

The idea is that these home-based players did play parts in the 2002 qualifiers including Duke Udi. That should never be underestimated. And this is years after Bonfrere told us it was not possible. Rohr is telling us the same even after Keshi proved otherwise by winning it all with multiple home-based players in that cup-winning squad. Think about the squad and not just starters. Same in 2013.

On Odey and Akas, they need not be starters. The point is that they are getting minutes ahead of players who had been in the foreign system for years. On the Taiwo example, I think it is far-fetched. Is your expectation that people should walk from the NPFL to a Big 5 league? That is not my expectation because there are many things beyond just talent that get you into those leagues as starters. Experience playing consistently in top leagues of Europe matter in who teams in those leagues recruit. It isn't just about talent. Take the EPL for instance, even several top academy players produced in their system fail to get a look in immediately. How then do you expect an NPFL player to get a look in?

My Prof, players move consistently from the Tunisian, Algerian, Moroccan, Senegalese, ivorien and Egyptian leagues to top 5 leagues in Europe especially the French league. If we had this talents, they would move as well.
The roles played by home based players in 2002 and 2013 are negligible and the results would've been achieved without them, but you cannot say the same about the foreign based players.
Keshi had an average of 5 home based players starting in the AFCON qualifiers I.e. Reuben, Uzoenyi, Oshaniwa, Oboabona and Agbim. Come the tournament proper, only Oboabona was a starter.
Do you remember an AFCON qualifiers in 1989 in Ibadan, where the fans were singing " no more home based"?. This was a period when we had a better league and Deolu Adekola, was one of the hb they were singing about?
When we did not have full strength quality fb players, it was ok to field hb players I.e we didn't have fb players to compete with the likes of Eboigbe, Shofoluwe etc., so they started for Nigeria. The case is different now as we can name 3 teams made up of fb players.
I will ask again, are you advocating for affirmative action?

If we ha

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:39 am
Posts: 17955
Location: Super Eagles Homeland
Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Quote:
1. These are poorly skilled players unworthy of playing for the Super Eagles.

This myth has existed since the mid-1990s when the Super Eagles dominated Africa with a team that was made almost entirely by foreign-based players. In fact, at the time, the team starters were all based outside the country. Although the national team continues to constitute players drawn from outside the country, two squads built during qualifiers for the 2002 World Cup and the one that won the 2013 AFCON included multiple players who were playing for local clubs and some others who were initially invited to the national team while playing for local teams.


Quote:
4. Players in the local league cannot make it in Europe.

We have already given the examples of Odey and Akas in answering the previous question. While it is true that players coming from the local league often have to use the route of Scandinavian leagues or North African leagues on their way to bigger leagues in Europe is not an aberration. Many players from Europe follow a similar route. Going directly to the Top 5 leagues in Europe is not a piece of cake. Numerous academy players groomed by clubs in those leagues fail to make it at the Top 5 level and moving elsewhere is not exactly an unusual pathway to success. Moreover, making it in the Scandinavian countries is certainly making it in Europe except the map has changed.



Details can be found by clicking on the link below:
https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2020/03/five-myths-about-local-players-in-npfl.html

Chima Akas and Stephen Odey are poor examples as they are bench warmers, Utin hardly makes the match day squad for his club.
Your examples of the 2002 WCQs and 2013 AFCON winning squads hides the reality.
In the 2002 WCQs, we had Eric Ejiofor, play regularly and Justice Christopher coming off the bench. The WC ticket was secured by a mainly foreign based squad and in our final match in PH against Ghana, no home based player started.
In 2013, we had Oboabona as a regular starter before Sunday Mba started playing from the knockout stages. The short winger from Rangers, Ejike Uzoenyi, played the final minutes of the SF against Mali after the game had been won. In essence, 2013 AFCON was won by the foreign based players.
The last home based player to leave the country and sign for a team in the Big 5 European leagues was Taiye Taiwo in 2005, when he signed for Marseilles.
The performance of our local clubs in African Club competitions is another pointer to the level of the standard of the Nigerian league and players. Even the home based SE failed to qualify for both WAFU and CHAN championships.
Prof, I understand your love for the local league and players but the sad reality today is that no player from the NPFL is ready for the SE except we practice affirmative action.


Dammy,

The idea is that these home-based players did play parts in the 2002 qualifiers including Duke Udi. That should never be underestimated. And this is years after Bonfrere told us it was not possible. Rohr is telling us the same even after Keshi proved otherwise by winning it all with multiple home-based players in that cup-winning squad. Think about the squad and not just starters. Same in 2013.

On Odey and Akas, they need not be starters. The point is that they are getting minutes ahead of players who had been in the foreign system for years. On the Taiwo example, I think it is far-fetched. Is your expectation that people should walk from the NPFL to a Big 5 league? That is not my expectation because there are many things beyond just talent that get you into those leagues as starters. Experience playing consistently in top leagues of Europe matter in who teams in those leagues recruit. It isn't just about talent. Take the EPL for instance, even several top academy players produced in their system fail to get a look in immediately. How then do you expect an NPFL player to get a look in?

My Prof, players move consistently from the Tunisian, Algerian, Moroccan, Senegalese, ivorien and Egyptian leagues to top 5 leagues in Europe especially the French league. If we had this talents, they would move as well.
But Senegal and Ivory Coast are not consistently sending league players to Ligue 1 but to their academies and that is because of colonial relationship similar to Congolese are during in the Belgian league. That is different. Nigeria, BTW, sends far more players than any African country to European leagues. That stat can be easily checked via the Internet. Thus, there are skilled Nigerian players and they are moving as well but not usually to Ligue 1 academies.

The roles played by home based players in 2002 and 2013 are negligible and the results would've been achieved without them, but you cannot say the same about the foreign based players.
Keshi had an average of 5 home based players starting in the AFCON qualifiers I.e. Reuben, Uzoenyi, Oshaniwa, Oboabona and Agbim. Come the tournament proper, only Oboabona was a starter.

Dammy, how can you state that it was negligible? Take the Keshi team for instance, add Sunday Mbah who you surprisingly forgot to list. He was not just a starter but a key player. The total will be six of 23 in a squad. Bros that is about 20% and you call that negligible ? I would not even call 3 players in a squad of 23 as negligible. Fact is that I am uncertain that results would have been achieved without them. If you recall, Mba's contribution was critical and the guy he replaced --Nosa Igiebor -- had been awful much earlier.
Do you remember an AFCON qualifiers in 1989 in Ibadan, where the fans were singing " no more home based"?. This was a period when we had a better league and Deolu Adekola, was one of the hb they were singing about?
Quote:
Yes, I believe it was in Enugu though. It was an awful outing. However, I also saw a team full of fb lose at home to South Africa recently and it was also awful. So what gives?


When we did not have full strength quality fb players, it was ok to field hb players I.e we didn't have fb players to compete with the likes of Eboigbe, Shofoluwe etc., so they started for Nigeria. The case is different now as we can name 3 teams made up of fb players.
I will ask again, are you advocating for affirmative action? Yes, that is exactly what I am advocating. Here affirmative action provides a firm opportunity for a group previously discriminated against because of the location of their career. What I do not support, however, is a quota system. Instead, I believe that there are talented players that can be found locally if only the scouts will take a serious look. The examples of these players helping Nigeria to achieve have occurred in an era when most of Nigeria's top players were actually playing for clubs outside the country but the coaches did the right thing by not concluding that such a situation made the country to be devoid of local talent that could still be part of the NT

If we ha

_________________
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:50 pm 
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Dammy wrote:
My Prof, players move consistently from the Tunisian, Algerian, Moroccan, Senegalese, ivorien and Egyptian leagues to top 5 leagues in Europe especially the French league. If we had this talents, they would move as well.
The roles played by home based players in 2002 and 2013 are negligible and the results would've been achieved without them, but you cannot say the same about the foreign based players.
Keshi had an average of 5 home based players starting in the AFCON qualifiers I.e. Reuben, Uzoenyi, Oshaniwa, Oboabona and Agbim. Come the tournament proper, only Oboabona was a starter.
Do you remember an AFCON qualifiers in 1989 in Ibadan, where the fans were singing " no more home based"?. This was a period when we had a better league and Deolu Adekola, was one of the hb they were singing about?
When we did not have full strength quality fb players, it was ok to field hb players I.e we didn't have fb players to compete with the likes of Eboigbe, Shofoluwe etc., so they started for Nigeria. The case is different now as we can name 3 teams made up of fb players.
I will ask again, are you advocating for affirmative action?

If we ha


The match I remember (where the song was sang), I think was played in Port Harcourt, and was a dead rubber.

It was the final match in the USA´94 qualifier first group. The second group was (Nigeria, Ivory Coast and Algeria).

If memory serves me right, it was against Congo and SE won 2-0. The fans starting singing ´all we are saying, give us more goals.´ Which then turned to ´all we are saying, no more home based.´ Finidi George scored in the last 15 minutes of the game. Which shut the fans up!!!

The goal by Finidi was used by NTA sports programme on Saturdays as it´s opening and closing intro. The programme was anchored by Danladi Bako.

I was way too much to have any memories about the 1989 match in Ibadan.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:25 am 
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fabio wrote:
Dammy wrote:
My Prof, players move consistently from the Tunisian, Algerian, Moroccan, Senegalese, ivorien and Egyptian leagues to top 5 leagues in Europe especially the French league. If we had this talents, they would move as well.
The roles played by home based players in 2002 and 2013 are negligible and the results would've been achieved without them, but you cannot say the same about the foreign based players.
Keshi had an average of 5 home based players starting in the AFCON qualifiers I.e. Reuben, Uzoenyi, Oshaniwa, Oboabona and Agbim. Come the tournament proper, only Oboabona was a starter.
Do you remember an AFCON qualifiers in 1989 in Ibadan, where the fans were singing " no more home based"?. This was a period when we had a better league and Deolu Adekola, was one of the hb they were singing about?
When we did not have full strength quality fb players, it was ok to field hb players I.e we didn't have fb players to compete with the likes of Eboigbe, Shofoluwe etc., so they started for Nigeria. The case is different now as we can name 3 teams made up of fb players.
I will ask again, are you advocating for affirmative action?

If we ha


The match I remember (where the song was sang), I think was played in Port Harcourt, and was a dead rubber.

It was the final match in the USA´94 qualifier first group. The second group was (Nigeria, Ivory Coast and Algeria).

If memory serves me right, it was against Congo and SE won 2-0. The fans starting singing ´all we are saying, give us more goals.´ Which then turned to ´all we are saying, no more home based.´ Finidi George scored in the last 15 minutes of the game. Which shut the fans up!!!

The goal by Finidi was used by NTA sports programme on Saturdays as it´s opening and closing intro. The programme was anchored by Danladi Bako.

I was way too much to have any memories about the 1989 match in Ibadan.

The match I was referring to was a 1990 AFCON qualifier at the Adamasingba stadium in Ibadan. Nigeria won 3-0 and despite that the fans sang their preference for fb players.
Maybe the PH incident was another occasion where it happened.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:35 am 
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Posts: 9390
Enugu II wrote:
Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Quote:
1. These are poorly skilled players unworthy of playing for the Super Eagles.

This myth has existed since the mid-1990s when the Super Eagles dominated Africa with a team that was made almost entirely by foreign-based players. In fact, at the time, the team starters were all based outside the country. Although the national team continues to constitute players drawn from outside the country, two squads built during qualifiers for the 2002 World Cup and the one that won the 2013 AFCON included multiple players who were playing for local clubs and some others who were initially invited to the national team while playing for local teams.


Quote:
4. Players in the local league cannot make it in Europe.

We have already given the examples of Odey and Akas in answering the previous question. While it is true that players coming from the local league often have to use the route of Scandinavian leagues or North African leagues on their way to bigger leagues in Europe is not an aberration. Many players from Europe follow a similar route. Going directly to the Top 5 leagues in Europe is not a piece of cake. Numerous academy players groomed by clubs in those leagues fail to make it at the Top 5 level and moving elsewhere is not exactly an unusual pathway to success. Moreover, making it in the Scandinavian countries is certainly making it in Europe except the map has changed.



Details can be found by clicking on the link below:
https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2020/03/five-myths-about-local-players-in-npfl.html

Chima Akas and Stephen Odey are poor examples as they are bench warmers, Utin hardly makes the match day squad for his club.
Your examples of the 2002 WCQs and 2013 AFCON winning squads hides the reality.
In the 2002 WCQs, we had Eric Ejiofor, play regularly and Justice Christopher coming off the bench. The WC ticket was secured by a mainly foreign based squad and in our final match in PH against Ghana, no home based player started.
In 2013, we had Oboabona as a regular starter before Sunday Mba started playing from the knockout stages. The short winger from Rangers, Ejike Uzoenyi, played the final minutes of the SF against Mali after the game had been won. In essence, 2013 AFCON was won by the foreign based players.
The last home based player to leave the country and sign for a team in the Big 5 European leagues was Taiye Taiwo in 2005, when he signed for Marseilles.
The performance of our local clubs in African Club competitions is another pointer to the level of the standard of the Nigerian league and players. Even the home based SE failed to qualify for both WAFU and CHAN championships.
Prof, I understand your love for the local league and players but the sad reality today is that no player from the NPFL is ready for the SE except we practice affirmative action.


Dammy,

The idea is that these home-based players did play parts in the 2002 qualifiers including Duke Udi. That should never be underestimated. And this is years after Bonfrere told us it was not possible. Rohr is telling us the same even after Keshi proved otherwise by winning it all with multiple home-based players in that cup-winning squad. Think about the squad and not just starters. Same in 2013.

On Odey and Akas, they need not be starters. The point is that they are getting minutes ahead of players who had been in the foreign system for years. On the Taiwo example, I think it is far-fetched. Is your expectation that people should walk from the NPFL to a Big 5 league? That is not my expectation because there are many things beyond just talent that get you into those leagues as starters. Experience playing consistently in top leagues of Europe matter in who teams in those leagues recruit. It isn't just about talent. Take the EPL for instance, even several top academy players produced in their system fail to get a look in immediately. How then do you expect an NPFL player to get a look in?

My Prof, players move consistently from the Tunisian, Algerian, Moroccan, Senegalese, ivorien and Egyptian leagues to top 5 leagues in Europe especially the French league. If we had this talents, they would move as well.
But Senegal and Ivory Coast are not consistently sending league players to Ligue 1 but to their academies and that is because of colonial relationship similar to Congolese are during in the Belgian league. That is different. Nigeria, BTW, sends far more players than any African country to European leagues. That stat can be easily checked via the Internet. Thus, there are skilled Nigerian players and they are moving as well but not usually to Ligue 1 academies.

The roles played by home based players in 2002 and 2013 are negligible and the results would've been achieved without them, but you cannot say the same about the foreign based players.
Keshi had an average of 5 home based players starting in the AFCON qualifiers I.e. Reuben, Uzoenyi, Oshaniwa, Oboabona and Agbim. Come the tournament proper, only Oboabona was a starter.

Dammy, how can you state that it was negligible? Take the Keshi team for instance, add Sunday Mbah who you surprisingly forgot to list. He was not just a starter but a key player. The total will be six of 23 in a squad. Bros that is about 20% and you call that negligible ? I would not even call 3 players in a squad of 23 as negligible. Fact is that I am uncertain that results would have been achieved without them. If you recall, Mba's contribution was critical and the guy he replaced --Nosa Igiebor -- had been awful much earlier.
Do you remember an AFCON qualifiers in 1989 in Ibadan, where the fans were singing " no more home based"?. This was a period when we had a better league and Deolu Adekola, was one of the hb they were singing about?
Quote:
Yes, I believe it was in Enugu though. It was an awful outing. However, I also saw a team full of fb lose at home to South Africa recently and it was also awful. So what gives?


When we did not have full strength quality fb players, it was ok to field hb players I.e we didn't have fb players to compete with the likes of Eboigbe, Shofoluwe etc., so they started for Nigeria. The case is different now as we can name 3 teams made up of fb players.
I will ask again, are you advocating for affirmative action? Yes, that is exactly what I am advocating. Here affirmative action provides a firm opportunity for a group previously discriminated against because of the location of their career. What I do not support, however, is a quota system. Instead, I believe that there are talented players that can be found locally if only the scouts will take a serious look. The examples of these players helping Nigeria to achieve have occurred in an era when most of Nigeria's top players were actually playing for clubs outside the country but the coaches did the right thing by not concluding that such a situation made the country to be devoid of local talent that could still be part of the NT

If we ha

Prof, the world has moved on and the SE is a pan Nigerian global selection now. The standard is very high and I don't believe any hb player will make the squad except we just dash out spots.
You mentioned 6 hb players in AFCON 2013, but how many of them actually played and contributed, only Oboabona and MBA. The likes of Oshaniwa, Egwueke, Reuben, Agbim, Uzoenyi , Odunlamietc were regular members of Keshi's squads, yet they were never fully convincing in national colours and couldn't even pursue successful professional careers.
The NPFL needs serious investment to get to the level where it can supply players to the SE on merit.
What should be uppermost in our minds, is that the best players should constitute the SE irrespective of where they play or don't you agree?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:04 am 
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Dammy wrote:
Prof, the world has moved on and the SE is a pan Nigerian global selection now. The standard is very high and I don't believe any hb player will make the squad except we just dash out spots.
You mentioned 6 hb players in AFCON 2013, but how many of them actually played and contributed, only Oboabona and MBA. The likes of Oshaniwa, Egwueke, Reuben, Agbim, Uzoenyi , Odunlamietc were regular members of Keshi's squads, yet they were never fully convincing in national colours and couldn't even pursue successful professional careers.
The NPFL needs serious investment to get to the level where it can supply players to the SE on merit.
What should be uppermost in our minds, is that the best players should constitute the SE irrespective of where they play or don't you agree?


Dammy,

My argument is not to have an SE of 1973 where all players are attached to home-based clubs. Not at all. Instead, my argument is that all Nigerians, wherever they may be (Including those that are home-based) are offered a fair chance to play for the SE. Presently, I do not believe that a fair chance has been offered to players in the NPFL especially when players from infinitely lower divisions in Europe are invited to the national team. They home-based players are Nigerians too. Why cite the likes of Egwuekwe and Agbim and few others as never fully convincing? Was Nosa Igiebor, Obiora Nwankwo, or even Ideye fully convincing for the SE?

While I agree that NPFL has a lot to do in order to improve the league, that should not deny talented players in that league from being scouted on an individual basis to make a determination on their usefulness to the national team. Your last statement is indeed a statement that I agree with completely but it does not at this moment appear to be the practice.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:05 am 
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Enugu II wrote:
Dammy wrote:
Prof, the world has moved on and the SE is a pan Nigerian global selection now. The standard is very high and I don't believe any hb player will make the squad except we just dash out spots.
You mentioned 6 hb players in AFCON 2013, but how many of them actually played and contributed, only Oboabona and MBA. The likes of Oshaniwa, Egwueke, Reuben, Agbim, Uzoenyi , Odunlamietc were regular members of Keshi's squads, yet they were never fully convincing in national colours and couldn't even pursue successful professional careers.
The NPFL needs serious investment to get to the level where it can supply players to the SE on merit.
What should be uppermost in our minds, is that the best players should constitute the SE irrespective of where they play or don't you agree?


Dammy,

My argument is not to have an SE of 1973 where all players are attached to home-based clubs. Not at all. Instead, my argument is that all Nigerians, wherever they may be (Including those that are home-based) are offered a fair chance to play for the SE. Presently, I do not believe that a fair chance has been offered to players in the NPFL especially when players from infinitely lower divisions in Europe are invited to the national team. They home-based players are Nigerians too. Why cite the likes of Egwuekwe and Agbim and few others as never fully convincing? Was Nosa Igiebor, Obiora Nwankwo, or even Ideye fully convincing for the SE?

While I agree that NPFL has a lot to do in order to improve the league, that should not deny talented players in that league from being scouted on an individual basis to make a determination on their usefulness to the national team. Your last statement is indeed a statement that I agree with completely but it does not at this moment appear to be the practice.
PROF, I have to disagree with you here.
The 'fair chance' you (and indeed the rest of us) argue for can only at the moment be achieved by having a quota system for HB players - something you say you are against, as we all are.
That as you know is not about "being given a fair chance" at all. It is more about 'backdoorism'. As Dammy rightly pointed out, HB players have and will continue to have ample opportunity to show what they can do. But they have NOT impressed anybody so far. Not the fans, not the SE coaches.

For me, this is the koko of the matter and negates your position:
Dammy wrote:
The performance of our local clubs in African Club competitions is another pointer to the level of the standard of the Nigerian league and players. Even the home based SE failed to qualify for both WAFU and CHAN championships.

These things cannot be swept under the carpet. Its the reality and the only measurable metric.

Back in the Keshi era, I was forever championing the likes of Egwueke and Oshaniwa. I had great hopes for Oboabona, Odunlami and Mba. Egwueke in particular was a let down even though for the 2013 AFCON he was down with measles or chicken pox or something. But they all left our shores soon after and we've heard virtually nothing of them since. The only conclusion is that even though they were our best at the time, they didn't have the pedigree to compete on the international stage, talk less excel.

What is happening now is a continuation of that, for reasons we all know.
There is no longer a back door entry to the SE.
YOU GET IN ON MERIT AND WE MUST PROTECT THAT.

Even if you are a FB (foreign based/foreign born) Nigerian, there is no automatic back door for you. Players like Chuba Akpom (striker, Greece), Ejimadu (GK, USA) and many others who have openly "declared" for Nigeria are not getting called up because they are not felt to be good enough. So why should we advocate for a backdoor quota for home-based players if they cannot prove to be better than invited players who happen to be based/born abroad?

It is in all fairness not their fault but it is what it is.
Rohr cannot be help responsible for the poor state of the league and its players and if he is compelled to choose local players against his better judgement, it is the same Nigerians that will kill him when results don't go to plan.
Look at the abuse and libellous accusations the late Keshi suffered over his squad selections, which sadly remain until today. His ONLY saving grace was that he won AFCON. Look at the abuse Akpeyi gets every day. Ighalo same thing. Ogu too. And these are players who are actually performing well, served their country well but have made the occasional costly mistake.

Already there are 'patriotic' Nigerians with an agenda accusing Rohr of having his own agenda by being an "agent" for "4th division FB players". :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Nobody wants or deserves that.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:58 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
Quote:
1. These are poorly skilled players unworthy of playing for the Super Eagles.

This myth has existed since the mid-1990s when the Super Eagles dominated Africa with a team that was made almost entirely by foreign-based players. In fact, at the time, the team starters were all based outside the country. Although the national team continues to constitute players drawn from outside the country, two squads built during qualifiers for the 2002 World Cup and the one that won the 2013 AFCON included multiple players who were playing for local clubs and some others who were initially invited to the national team while playing for local teams.


Quote:
4. Players in the local league cannot make it in Europe.

We have already given the examples of Odey and Akas in answering the previous question. While it is true that players coming from the local league often have to use the route of Scandinavian leagues or North African leagues on their way to bigger leagues in Europe is not an aberration. Many players from Europe follow a similar route. Going directly to the Top 5 leagues in Europe is not a piece of cake. Numerous academy players groomed by clubs in those leagues fail to make it at the Top 5 level and moving elsewhere is not exactly an unusual pathway to success. Moreover, making it in the Scandinavian countries is certainly making it in Europe except the map has changed.



Details can be found by clicking on the link below:
https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2020/03/five-myths-about-local-players-in-npfl.html


This is the first time I am hearing of these myths.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:08 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Dammy wrote:
Prof, the world has moved on and the SE is a pan Nigerian global selection now. The standard is very high and I don't believe any hb player will make the squad except we just dash out spots.
You mentioned 6 hb players in AFCON 2013, but how many of them actually played and contributed, only Oboabona and MBA. The likes of Oshaniwa, Egwueke, Reuben, Agbim, Uzoenyi , Odunlamietc were regular members of Keshi's squads, yet they were never fully convincing in national colours and couldn't even pursue successful professional careers.
The NPFL needs serious investment to get to the level where it can supply players to the SE on merit.
What should be uppermost in our minds, is that the best players should constitute the SE irrespective of where they play or don't you agree?


Dammy,

My argument is not to have an SE of 1973 where all players are attached to home-based clubs. Not at all. Instead, my argument is that all Nigerians, wherever they may be (Including those that are home-based) are offered a fair chance to play for the SE. Presently, I do not believe that a fair chance has been offered to players in the NPFL especially when players from infinitely lower divisions in Europe are invited to the national team. They home-based players are Nigerians too. Why cite the likes of Egwuekwe and Agbim and few others as never fully convincing? Was Nosa Igiebor, Obiora Nwankwo, or even Ideye fully convincing for the SE?

While I agree that NPFL has a lot to do in order to improve the league, that should not deny talented players in that league from being scouted on an individual basis to make a determination on their usefulness to the national team. Your last statement is indeed a statement that I agree with completely but it does not at this moment appear to be the practice.
PROF, I have to disagree with you here.
The 'fair chance' you (and indeed the rest of us) argue for can only at the moment be achieved by having a quota system for HB players - something you say you are against, as we all are.
That as you know is not about "being given a fair chance" at all. It is more about 'backdoorism'. As Dammy rightly pointed out, HB players have and will continue to have ample opportunity to show what they can do. But they have NOT impressed anybody so far. Not the fans, not the SE coaches.

For me, this is the koko of the matter and negates your position:
Dammy wrote:
The performance of our local clubs in African Club competitions is another pointer to the level of the standard of the Nigerian league and players. Even the home based SE failed to qualify for both WAFU and CHAN championships.

These things cannot be swept under the carpet. Its the reality and the only measurable metric.

Back in the Keshi era, I was forever championing the likes of Egwueke and Oshaniwa. I had great hopes for Oboabona, Odunlami and Mba. Egwueke in particular was a let down even though for the 2013 AFCON he was down with measles or chicken pox or something. But they all left our shores soon after and we've heard virtually nothing of them since. The only conclusion is that even though they were our best at the time, they didn't have the pedigree to compete on the international stage, talk less excel.

What is happening now is a continuation of that, for reasons we all know.
There is no longer a back door entry to the SE.
YOU GET IN ON MERIT AND WE MUST PROTECT THAT.

Even if you are a FB (foreign based/foreign born) Nigerian, there is no automatic back door for you. Players like Chuba Akpom (striker, Greece), Ejimadu (GK, USA) and many others who have openly "declared" for Nigeria are not getting called up because they are not felt to be good enough. So why should we advocate for a backdoor quota for home-based players if they cannot prove to be better than invited players who happen to be based/born abroad?

It is in all fairness not their fault but it is what it is.
Rohr cannot be help responsible for the poor state of the league and its players and if he is compelled to choose local players against his better judgement, it is the same Nigerians that will kill him when results don't go to plan.
Look at the abuse and libellous accusations the late Keshi suffered over his squad selections, which sadly remain until today. His ONLY saving grace was that he won AFCON. Look at the abuse Akpeyi gets every day. Ighalo same thing. Ogu too. And these are players who are actually performing well, served their country well but have made the occasional costly mistake.

Already there are 'patriotic' Nigerians with an agenda accusing Rohr of having his own agenda by being an "agent" for "4th division FB players". :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Nobody wants or deserves that.

Thank you for putting it better than I can. It's obvious that some of this hb players looked better than they were because of the quality of the fb players around them. Virtually all of them have proven not to be of international quality expected of a player of the SE standard.
Mamelodi Sundowns handed Uzoenyi a lucrative contract on the back of his being an SE player only for him not to meet their expectations. Ditto the likes of Odunlami, Reuben, Mba, Salami, Egwueke etc kept failing trials repeatedly and failed to match the expectations of prospective suitors. We have a situation where the hb players use the SE to get invitations for trials abroad, and most fail or manage to get contracts in minor leagues.
I remember Keshi taking the best hb players to Germany to train at the Adidas training facility in 2013 and not one of them got signed by the various clubs that scouted them.
Rohr cannot be expected to invite them based on quota system.
If you truly want the best in the SE, then there's no place for hb players now.
Junior Lokossa was destroying the NPFL with goals and that prompted Rohr to invite him but where is he today? Warming the bench at Esperance, even Junior Ajayi playing regularly and scoring for Egyptian giants, Al Ahly, cannot get into the SE squad.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:20 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
Quote:
1. These are poorly skilled players unworthy of playing for the Super Eagles.

This myth has existed since the mid-1990s when the Super Eagles dominated Africa with a team that was made almost entirely by foreign-based players. In fact, at the time, the team starters were all based outside the country. Although the national team continues to constitute players drawn from outside the country, two squads built during qualifiers for the 2002 World Cup and the one that won the 2013 AFCON included multiple players who were playing for local clubs and some others who were initially invited to the national team while playing for local teams.


Quote:
4. Players in the local league cannot make it in Europe.

We have already given the examples of Odey and Akas in answering the previous question. While it is true that players coming from the local league often have to use the route of Scandinavian leagues or North African leagues on their way to bigger leagues in Europe is not an aberration. Many players from Europe follow a similar route. Going directly to the Top 5 leagues in Europe is not a piece of cake. Numerous academy players groomed by clubs in those leagues fail to make it at the Top 5 level and moving elsewhere is not exactly an unusual pathway to success. Moreover, making it in the Scandinavian countries is certainly making it in Europe except the map has changed.



Details can be found by clicking on the link below:
https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2020/03/five-myths-about-local-players-in-npfl.html


Prof., it has NEVER been about SKILL. Football is beyond being about skill.

It is about EDUCATION. Their football education is lacking. Not their skill.

Go talk to any recent Naijarian football immigrant... they will tell you that the professional tutoring they receive even on what the rudiments of their position calls for them to do is eye-opening.

No one will be teaching them any skill. Just how to play the game consistently at a professional level.

I had this discussion with Gotti on a different thread... basic requirement these days in Naijaria to land a very good lucrative job most times require a foreign Master's degree... looks like our National Team is trending that way as well.


One can say the test of their Naijarian football education is their ability to land a foreign contract.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:21 pm 
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Sorry for coming to the party late...
Between you, Damunk and Dammy, you have put forth the arguments I would have made to counter Prof.
I believe Prof is looking at this from a sentimental standpoint. The truth of the matter is that not a single one of our home based players is good enough to make the team, and that is the harsh reality.
You can pick your National team based on sentiments and quota systems OR you can make your selections based on selecting the absolute best candidates. In this day and age, the former will get you absolutely no where!
Cellular wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Quote:
1. These are poorly skilled players unworthy of playing for the Super Eagles.

This myth has existed since the mid-1990s when the Super Eagles dominated Africa with a team that was made almost entirely by foreign-based players. In fact, at the time, the team starters were all based outside the country. Although the national team continues to constitute players drawn from outside the country, two squads built during qualifiers for the 2002 World Cup and the one that won the 2013 AFCON included multiple players who were playing for local clubs and some others who were initially invited to the national team while playing for local teams.


Quote:
4. Players in the local league cannot make it in Europe.

We have already given the examples of Odey and Akas in answering the previous question. While it is true that players coming from the local league often have to use the route of Scandinavian leagues or North African leagues on their way to bigger leagues in Europe is not an aberration. Many players from Europe follow a similar route. Going directly to the Top 5 leagues in Europe is not a piece of cake. Numerous academy players groomed by clubs in those leagues fail to make it at the Top 5 level and moving elsewhere is not exactly an unusual pathway to success. Moreover, making it in the Scandinavian countries is certainly making it in Europe except the map has changed.



Details can be found by clicking on the link below:
https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2020/03/five-myths-about-local-players-in-npfl.html


Prof., it has NEVER been about SKILL. Football is beyond being about skill.

It is about EDUCATION. Their football education is lacking. Not their skill.

Go talk to any recent Naijarian football immigrant... they will tell you that the professional tutoring they receive even on what the rudiments of their position calls for them to do is eye-opening.

No one will be teaching them any skill. Just how to play the game consistently at a professional level.

I had this discussion with Gotti on a different thread... basic requirement these days in Naijaria to land a very good lucrative job most times require a foreign Master's degree... looks like our National Team is trending that way as well.


One can say the test of their Naijarian football education is their ability to land a foreign contract.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:59 pm 
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Dammy wrote:
Damunk wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Dammy wrote:
Prof, the world has moved on and the SE is a pan Nigerian global selection now. The standard is very high and I don't believe any hb player will make the squad except we just dash out spots.
You mentioned 6 hb players in AFCON 2013, but how many of them actually played and contributed, only Oboabona and MBA. The likes of Oshaniwa, Egwueke, Reuben, Agbim, Uzoenyi , Odunlamietc were regular members of Keshi's squads, yet they were never fully convincing in national colours and couldn't even pursue successful professional careers.
The NPFL needs serious investment to get to the level where it can supply players to the SE on merit.
What should be uppermost in our minds, is that the best players should constitute the SE irrespective of where they play or don't you agree?


Dammy,

My argument is not to have an SE of 1973 where all players are attached to home-based clubs. Not at all. Instead, my argument is that all Nigerians, wherever they may be (Including those that are home-based) are offered a fair chance to play for the SE. Presently, I do not believe that a fair chance has been offered to players in the NPFL especially when players from infinitely lower divisions in Europe are invited to the national team. They home-based players are Nigerians too. Why cite the likes of Egwuekwe and Agbim and few others as never fully convincing? Was Nosa Igiebor, Obiora Nwankwo, or even Ideye fully convincing for the SE?

While I agree that NPFL has a lot to do in order to improve the league, that should not deny talented players in that league from being scouted on an individual basis to make a determination on their usefulness to the national team. Your last statement is indeed a statement that I agree with completely but it does not at this moment appear to be the practice.
PROF, I have to disagree with you here.
The 'fair chance' you (and indeed the rest of us) argue for can only at the moment be achieved by having a quota system for HB players - something you say you are against, as we all are.
That as you know is not about "being given a fair chance" at all. It is more about 'backdoorism'. As Dammy rightly pointed out, HB players have and will continue to have ample opportunity to show what they can do. But they have NOT impressed anybody so far. Not the fans, not the SE coaches.

For me, this is the koko of the matter and negates your position:
Dammy wrote:
The performance of our local clubs in African Club competitions is another pointer to the level of the standard of the Nigerian league and players. Even the home based SE failed to qualify for both WAFU and CHAN championships.

These things cannot be swept under the carpet. Its the reality and the only measurable metric.

Back in the Keshi era, I was forever championing the likes of Egwueke and Oshaniwa. I had great hopes for Oboabona, Odunlami and Mba. Egwueke in particular was a let down even though for the 2013 AFCON he was down with measles or chicken pox or something. But they all left our shores soon after and we've heard virtually nothing of them since. The only conclusion is that even though they were our best at the time, they didn't have the pedigree to compete on the international stage, talk less excel.

What is happening now is a continuation of that, for reasons we all know.
There is no longer a back door entry to the SE.
YOU GET IN ON MERIT AND WE MUST PROTECT THAT.

Even if you are a FB (foreign based/foreign born) Nigerian, there is no automatic back door for you. Players like Chuba Akpom (striker, Greece), Ejimadu (GK, USA) and many others who have openly "declared" for Nigeria are not getting called up because they are not felt to be good enough. So why should we advocate for a backdoor quota for home-based players if they cannot prove to be better than invited players who happen to be based/born abroad?

It is in all fairness not their fault but it is what it is.
Rohr cannot be help responsible for the poor state of the league and its players and if he is compelled to choose local players against his better judgement, it is the same Nigerians that will kill him when results don't go to plan.
Look at the abuse and libellous accusations the late Keshi suffered over his squad selections, which sadly remain until today. His ONLY saving grace was that he won AFCON. Look at the abuse Akpeyi gets every day. Ighalo same thing. Ogu too. And these are players who are actually performing well, served their country well but have made the occasional costly mistake.

Already there are 'patriotic' Nigerians with an agenda accusing Rohr of having his own agenda by being an "agent" for "4th division FB players". :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Nobody wants or deserves that.

Thank you for putting it better than I can. It's obvious that some of this hb players looked better than they were because of the quality of the fb players around them. Virtually all of them have proven not to be of international quality expected of a player of the SE standard.
Mamelodi Sundowns handed Uzoenyi a lucrative contract on the back of his being an SE player only for him not to meet their expectations. Ditto the likes of Odunlami, Reuben, Mba, Salami, Egwueke etc kept failing trials repeatedly and failed to match the expectations of prospective suitors. We have a situation where the hb players use the SE to get invitations for trials abroad, and most fail or manage to get contracts in minor leagues.
I remember Keshi taking the best hb players to Germany to train at the Adidas training facility in 2013 and not one of them got signed by the various clubs that scouted them.
Rohr cannot be expected to invite them based on quota system.
If you truly want the best in the SE, then there's no place for hb players now.
Junior Lokossa was destroying the NPFL with goals and that prompted Rohr to invite him but where is he today? Warming the bench at Esperance, even Junior Ajayi playing regularly and scoring for Egyptian giants, Al Ahly, cannot get into the SE squad.
This is why I will forever have enormous respect for Ahmed Musa no matter what anybody says.

After the 'golden era' of the 90s, I don't think there is a single home-grown export from the NPFL that has been able to excel internationally and consistently hold down a SE place, aside from him and of course GK Vincent Enyeama. He has been holding it down for ten years and counting.

All the rest have come and gone in a flash. Even legends like Mikel and Yobo left our shores as youth players to receive their 'higher' football education - just like all those populating the SE after them.
I am happy to be corrected.

It is what it is and the reasons are obvious.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:10 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
Quote:
1. These are poorly skilled players unworthy of playing for the Super Eagles.

This myth has existed since the mid-1990s when the Super Eagles dominated Africa with a team that was made almost entirely by foreign-based players. In fact, at the time, the team starters were all based outside the country. Although the national team continues to constitute players drawn from outside the country, two squads built during qualifiers for the 2002 World Cup and the one that won the 2013 AFCON included multiple players who were playing for local clubs and some others who were initially invited to the national team while playing for local teams.


Quote:
4. Players in the local league cannot make it in Europe.

We have already given the examples of Odey and Akas in answering the previous question. While it is true that players coming from the local league often have to use the route of Scandinavian leagues or North African leagues on their way to bigger leagues in Europe is not an aberration. Many players from Europe follow a similar route. Going directly to the Top 5 leagues in Europe is not a piece of cake. Numerous academy players groomed by clubs in those leagues fail to make it at the Top 5 level and moving elsewhere is not exactly an unusual pathway to success. Moreover, making it in the Scandinavian countries is certainly making it in Europe except the map has changed.

Details can be found by clicking on the link below:
https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2020/03/five-myths-about-local-players-in-npfl.html

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Well done for trying Prof...
But I have given up on these sorts of discussions long ago.

The one thing I have come to realize about Africans (and perhaps it not just an African thing, although I see it with imported religions and juju) is that once brainwashed, rationality becomes well nigh impossible. But good luck with it.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:26 pm 
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Cellular wrote:
Prof., it has NEVER been about SKILL. Football is beyond being about skill.

It is about EDUCATION. Their football education is lacking. Not their skill.

Go talk to any recent Naijarian football immigrant... they will tell you that the professional tutoring they receive even on what the rudiments of their position calls for them to do is eye-opening.

No one will be teaching them any skill. Just how to play the game consistently at a professional level.

I had this discussion with Gotti on a different thread... basic requirement these days in Naijaria to land a very good lucrative job most times require a foreign Master's degree... looks like our National Team is trending that way as well.

One can say the test of their Naijarian football education is their ability to land a foreign contract.

Abegi leave me out of it... :lol:

Asked you if it meant all those Nigerian coaches who were trained and/or played abroad checked their "education" at Murtala Muhammed Airport (perhaps quarantined) upon their return, and still waiting for a substantive response while you sought refuge in a series of Strawman Arguments. LMAO!

PS: Btw, if the likes of Hope Akpan, Etuhu, Sone Aluko, etc., not to mention all those EPL players I see every week who do not seem to know where to stand on corner-kicks or to cover for an overlapping full-back are "educated", then getting a foreign contract is NO indicia of a football education. SMH

Anyway, like I said...
Have it Hoss and leave me out of it. Let's just agree to disagree.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:21 am 
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When the Chan team failed to qualify to this years postponed tournament and the Olympic team had to use foreign based players to bail them out to qualify to the African u23 championship (in which the failed at the earliest stage) and then failure at the all-African games followed it became clear that other African nations are producing teams (not necessarily players) of higher standards and Nigeria has neglected football at home.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:10 pm 
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Gotti wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Quote:
1. These are poorly skilled players unworthy of playing for the Super Eagles.

This myth has existed since the mid-1990s when the Super Eagles dominated Africa with a team that was made almost entirely by foreign-based players. In fact, at the time, the team starters were all based outside the country. Although the national team continues to constitute players drawn from outside the country, two squads built during qualifiers for the 2002 World Cup and the one that won the 2013 AFCON included multiple players who were playing for local clubs and some others who were initially invited to the national team while playing for local teams.


Quote:
4. Players in the local league cannot make it in Europe.

We have already given the examples of Odey and Akas in answering the previous question. While it is true that players coming from the local league often have to use the route of Scandinavian leagues or North African leagues on their way to bigger leagues in Europe is not an aberration. Many players from Europe follow a similar route. Going directly to the Top 5 leagues in Europe is not a piece of cake. Numerous academy players groomed by clubs in those leagues fail to make it at the Top 5 level and moving elsewhere is not exactly an unusual pathway to success. Moreover, making it in the Scandinavian countries is certainly making it in Europe except the map has changed.

Details can be found by clicking on the link below:
https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2020/03/five-myths-about-local-players-in-npfl.html

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Well done for trying Prof...
But I have given up on these sorts of discussions long ago.

The one thing I have come to realize about Africans (and perhaps it not just an African thing, although I see it with imported religions and juju) is that once brainwashed, rationality becomes well nigh impossible. But good luck with it.

You are the irrational one here, basing your argument on sentiments. For clarity, name the home based players that deserve to be invited to the SE on merit.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:27 pm 
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fabio wrote:
Dammy wrote:
My Prof, players move consistently from the Tunisian, Algerian, Moroccan, Senegalese, ivorien and Egyptian leagues to top 5 leagues in Europe especially the French league. If we had this talents, they would move as well.
The roles played by home based players in 2002 and 2013 are negligible and the results would've been achieved without them, but you cannot say the same about the foreign based players.
Keshi had an average of 5 home based players starting in the AFCON qualifiers I.e. Reuben, Uzoenyi, Oshaniwa, Oboabona and Agbim. Come the tournament proper, only Oboabona was a starter.
Do you remember an AFCON qualifiers in 1989 in Ibadan, where the fans were singing " no more home based"?. This was a period when we had a better league and Deolu Adekola, was one of the hb they were singing about?
When we did not have full strength quality fb players, it was ok to field hb players I.e we didn't have fb players to compete with the likes of Eboigbe, Shofoluwe etc., so they started for Nigeria. The case is different now as we can name 3 teams made up of fb players.
I will ask again, are you advocating for affirmative action?

If we ha


The match I remember (where the song was sang), I think was played in Port Harcourt, and was a dead rubber.

It was the final match in the USA´94 qualifier first group. The second group was (Nigeria, Ivory Coast and Algeria).

If memory serves me right, it was against Congo and SE won 2-0. The fans starting singing ´all we are saying, give us more goals.´ Which then turned to ´all we are saying, no more home based.´ Finidi George scored in the last 15 minutes of the game. Which shut the fans up!!!

The goal by Finidi was used by NTA sports programme on Saturdays as it´s opening and closing intro. The programme was anchored by Danladi Bako.

I was way too much to have any memories about the 1989 match in Ibadan.

Pa Fabio, the match you described was played in Enugu.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:14 am 
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Dammy wrote:
You are the irrational one here, basing your argument on sentiments. For clarity, name the home based players that deserve to be invited to the SE on merit.

If I was the one handing out SE invitations, I would not have invited the likes of Otabor-Solomon, Musa Mohammed or even Maduka, among several others, but they were invited nonetheless.

Invite players on their INDIVIDUAL merit, not on where they are based or some quasi-racist stereotype of football 'education', and let them swim or sink on their own INDIVIDUAL merit.

What's good for the Goose...and all that ish! :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:50 am 
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Eaglezbeak wrote:
When the Chan team failed to qualify to this years postponed tournament and the Olympic team had to use foreign based players to bail them out to qualify to the African u23 championship (in which the failed at the earliest stage) and then failure at the all-African games followed it became clear that other African nations are producing teams (not necessarily players) of higher standards and Nigeria has neglected football at home.

Distinction with a difference...

Ghana had its female U17 team together for two months (yes, U17!) before it's last U17 WWC qualifiers against Liberia. Nigeria had its own team, the Flamingos, in camp for all of two WEEKS. The girls IMHO has done the WORST possible thing by going out and beating Guinea 11-2 on aggregate (6-1 away, 5t-1 at home). That result will unfortunately continue to embolden (and in their dimwitted minds, validate) the NFF into believing that one can just throw 18 bodies together, hand them Naija jerseys, get them to sing together on the team bus (even chock in some gospel songs), and that's all that required.

Even the U20 female team (Falconets), who would have been playing their U20 WWC qualifiers this month if not for the COVID-19 pandemic, only had an "assistant" coach (until a female head coach is appointed by the NFF) appointed at the beginning of March. In the 3 weeks between that appointment and the first qualifier scheduled for March 21, he was supposed to scout players, invite prospects, screen them, settle on a squad, install tactics and prepare the team. If/when the team fails, some CEs will proffer that as purported 'evidence' of the paucity of home-based players or their 'education'. SMH

The WAFU and CHAN qualifiers that some of you cite, wasn't that the team that was initially devoid of most of the players from the clubs in the CAF club continental competitions until desperation set in? Meanwhile, their "failure" included All-Africa Games (now African Games) runners-up, and U20 AFCON semi-finalists (where they only lost on PKs to Mali who subsequently made it to the WC quarter-finals). Meanwhile, the WWC U20 and the U23 AFCON squads, loaded with foreign-based players, could hardly string a handful of passes together - more evidence of the divergence between team and players!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:20 pm 
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Gotti wrote:
Dammy wrote:
You are the irrational one here, basing your argument on sentiments. For clarity, name the home based players that deserve to be invited to the SE on merit.

If I was the one handing out SE invitations, I would not have invited the likes of Otabor-Solomon, Musa Mohammed or even Maduka, among several others, but they were invited nonetheless.

Invite players on their INDIVIDUAL merit, not on where they are based or some quasi-racist stereotype of football 'education', and let them swim or sink on their own INDIVIDUAL merit.

What's good for the Goose...and all that ish! :wink:


Chief Gotti sef... :lol: :lol:

Di man asked you name the person you would invite. You begin tell us the foreign-based ones you won't invite.

The reality in Naijaria is that if you are good enough you won't be in Naijaria...football speaking.

I went to Naijaria hoping to prove my own thesis (I was once like you...a strong advocate for local players). Other than in the goalkeeping department, I am yet to find the person I can say, better pass a current SE player.

Again, I reference Brazil. They have way better pool of domestic talent... they also have a better league. But they still rely on their foreign legion.

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