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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:08 am 
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One coach was aggressive. The other was super conservative. Nigeria used to play with confidence and swagger. Thanks to wowo crew and Rohr. Nigeria is now playing scared. We need to get rid of Rohr and build a team that is aggressive and plays with confidence.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:37 am 
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chuks69 wrote:
I was a that game life and direct in the stadium. I cried that day and i still cried today watching the highlights again.. here were my observations; in the stadium, we had like 45K Argentines vs 2.5K Nigerians.. Some of the Argentines even had some of the NFF allocated tickets .. I dont know why on earth we agreed to wear our away jersey, that dark green instead of the bling bling when were the home side. Already in the organizational side, it is already 2-0 to Argentina.
On the field of play, you would notice from our tactical Organization, we had very few players upfront, most times, 1-2 versus 4-5 Argentines players. In the first 5mins Argentina was predominant, Uzoho really had a good game.. In the next 5-9 mins, we picked up, Iheanacho didnt take his half chances or pass or create or continue the play. he was really selfish. Twice Moses made the run in the blind alley and he refused to pass, the LB (Trafiligacio) wasn’t even with Moses and Iheanacho both times lost the ball to Otamendi and Mascherano. Mascherano was massive. Against this Argentine team, running or counter attack wasn’t helping, hence Iheanacho was useless. Musa was on another level that day.
Then within the 5-9min, our slow defense was pushing up gradually, Argentina went the long ball route, Balogun fouled Di Maria, that could have been a RED card to Balogun, but due to Omeruo closing up, he just had a yellow or perhaps a kind referee. The second long ball this time from Banega , Ndidi should have cut this off earlier with a handball, if he knew his defense was out of position. Omeruo and Idowu tried, however Messi control was superb, he controlled twice and that sealed the goal. The Eagles tried to get back into the game, Musa tormenting his markers and Iheanacho was bullied by the Argentine defense. Rohr subbing in Ighalo turned Eagles attack ON in the second half, with his presence the Eagles could attack a seating defense. Ighalo really did well, but didn’t have his scoring boots on and wasn’t in a purple patch of goal scoring during the world cup. The corner kick which the pk came was from him, he forced a save from the Gk, missed a sitter after Rojo unintentional hand ball. From the referee point of view it was tough to award.
Another clear observation, from the 60th minutes, Victor Moses legs were gone, all the forward runs he made without receiving the ball was now beginning to tell. Argentine coach specially made substitutions to attack Moses wing. Rohr could have gone 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 just to protect that wing, Idowu was doing a good job on the other side. They were two chances earlier for Argentina from that Moses wing which they didn’t covert.
Finally, Rohr tried a bit, but he some lapses, he was more tensed than usual, he should have made his substitutions early, like from 70mins, Iwobi for Moses to protect that wing. In the near future, for the next World Cup against big teams, we should learn to attack with 3-4 players in transition and 5- 6 players should be able to protect the team. Attacking with 1-2 players in transition and 1 player arriving later (like Moses) in the first half against Argentina twice doesn’t really help. At WC2018, our 3CMFs were basically doing the same thing. Etebo started slowly in that game, Rohr was really conservative. I am very happy with Aribo addition (we need more of those type of players), because he runs into the box from the center and can score goals from that position unlike Mikel and Etebo (from the arriving into the box position). If Etebo was in that mold of getting goals from that running CMF positions, the Eagles could have qualified from that group.
For Rohr to get better improved results, he needs to get a quicker back line, unlike for the WC2018, playing a 3CMFs just to protect that back line, get goal scorers from the running CMFs and also develop a transition game that allows 3 to 4 players get involved and+1 arriving later.
I still weep for the Nigerian National team.. But Uzoho, Musa should be proud of their world cup performance.

I was also in St Petersburg. Was outside the stadium to see if I could get a ticket but the costs were too prohibitive and very few people were prepared to sell. I watched the game in a nearby bar. We were seriously outnumbered by Argentinians.

I agree, the first half our attacking play was listless - possibly due to Iheancho's injury.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:02 am 
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maceo4 wrote:
Damunk wrote:
gochino wrote:
I have never seen a team play so scared that they didn't trust themselves to do anything with the ball except there was an emerging counter attack and even then, they had zero ideas! Wonder what Herr Rohr gave them to eat that night. May we never see such a frightened and timid Super eagles again.
Selective memory.
You didn't see that one v Argentina in 2014?
For real?
You have conveniently forgotten Enyeama's heroics. :rotf:


Bros, the team in 2014 played a much better game against a much MUUUUUCH better Argentina (who won all their matches on the way to the Final barely losing to Germany in overtime) with a very much in form Messi. But, were again undone by an unfortunate bounce on that corner kick that Rojo had no clue about just hit him and went in. I was really proud that day, remember watching it with coworkers how they were telling me they see why we are African champions you guys are fighters. It simply wasn't the same pride in 2018 against a much lesser Argentina team struggling to get out of the group, thanking us for giving them a chance by beating Iceland (knowing full well they will beat us).

The likes of Emenike, Musa, and Odemwingie in 2014 were super confident players who didn't play scared, talk less of Ambrose that kept overlapping all day (leaving big gaps lol, but adventurous and attacking), to Onazi in midfield strutting his stuff, even normally useless players like Micheal Babatunde were performing and looking up to the challenge, driving at the Argies and providing Musa with the assist for his first equalizer...Yes Enyeama had to pull off heroics on Messi's FK's, WPOY was in the form of his life. But we didn't just try to absorb their pressure and fall into a shell. We didn't play scared, even Enyeama was joking with Messi before and during the game started showing how relaxed and comfortable the boys were, knowing the Argentines don't have two heads.

I think you are the one having selective memory here...with Argentina's fire power of course they will create chances, but I think most peoples comments relates to our style and how we set up to play. Trying to match them in 2014 as opposed to being in a shell trying to soak up and pray for a counter goal like we tried in 2018, 2010 and 2002 (all very disappointing displays with us being played off the park...). Of course all times we lost, so looking at things from a results POV there was no difference, but there is the eye test and there is the wonders that standing up to Messi and taking it to them has done for the career of the likes of Musa, there is no game he plays that the commentators don't mention his heroics even in a losing effort, so to me its always better to go out swinging than cowering in fear and going out with a whimper.

Wow! Finally someone who watches games and doesnt come to conclusions by looking at the scores! You can't even compare the two teams, one was completely disorganized and managed just a win in the whole competition, which was against us, and the other went all the way to the final losing out in a tight game to a very good German team. Messi even won the golden ball award in 2014!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:24 am 
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vancity eagle wrote:
maceo4 wrote:

Bros, the team in 2014 played a much better game against a much MUUUUUCH better Argentina (who won all their matches on the way to the Final barely losing to Germany in overtime) with a very much in form Messi. But, were again undone by an unfortunate bounce on that corner kick that Rojo had no clue about just hit him and went in. I was really proud that day, remember watching it with coworkers how they were telling me they see why we are African champions you guys are fighters. It simply wasn't the same pride in 2018 against a much lesser Argentina team struggling to get out of the group, thanking us for giving them a chance by beating Iceland (knowing full well they will beat us).

The likes of Emenike, Musa, and Odemwingie in 2014 were super confident players who didn't play scared, talk less of Ambrose that kept overlapping all day (leaving big gaps lol, but adventurous and attacking), to Onazi in midfield strutting his stuff, even normally useless players like Micheal Babatunde were performing and looking up to the challenge, driving at the Argies and providing Musa with the assist for his first equalizer...Yes Enyeama had to pull off heroics on Messi's FK's, WPOY was in the form of his life. But we didn't just try to absorb their pressure and fall into a shell. We didn't play scared, even Enyeama was joking with Messi before and during the game started showing how relaxed and comfortable the boys were, knowing the Argentines don't have two heads.

I think you are the one having selective memory here...with Argentina's fire power of course they will create chances, but I think most peoples comments relates to our style and how we set up to play. Trying to match them in 2014 as opposed to being in a shell trying to soak up and pray for a counter goal like we tried in 2018, 2010 and 2002 (all very disappointing displays with us being played off the park...). Of course all times we lost, so looking at things from a results POV there was no difference, but there is the eye test and there is the wonders that standing up to Messi and taking it to them has done for the career of the likes of Musa, there is no game he plays that the commentators don't mention his heroics even in a losing effort, so to me its always better to go out swinging than cowering in fear and going out with a whimper.



did you just make the very same argument I and others have been making , that "result isn't everything"

Is this the best you can come up with? The truth is KESHI team performed better at the WC than Rohr team. The match against Argentina was a good example.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:58 am 
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ohenhen1 wrote:
One coach was aggressive. The other was super conservative. Nigeria used to play with confidence and swagger. Thanks to wowo crew and Rohr. Nigeria is now playing scared. We need to get rid of Rohr and build a team that is aggressive and plays with confidence.

I quite agree that Rohr's mentality affected the team negatively in Russia, while Keshi with the typical Nigerian " can do it" mentality affected his team's performance positively in Brazil.
Our most successful foreign coaches, Westerhoff and Bonfrere were those who imbibed the Nigerian spirit and were able use that to defeat better teams.
Rohr's recent statement that he intends to win the 2021 AFCON is a sign that he's finally imbibing that spirit.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:10 pm 
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just compare... Keshi was miles ahead of **** in every aspect of football

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:47 pm 
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How anyone can compare the 'state of play' of one team over another based on a 2 min clip is beyond me.
Frankly, I don't see how the 2014 team was deemed 'better' than the 2018 squad.

For one, both Nigerian teams met Argentina in the final group game, with Argentina on the following pts (2014 - 6 pts) and (2018 - 1 pt). Argentina was on the brink of group elimination in 2018, so it stands to reason that they would have brought their A++ game to the match, compared to 2014 where it was more of a formality (as they had already qualified for the next stage prior to meeting us).

Also, considering the ebbs and flow of the 2018 game (as well as the fact that the team was comprised of rookies for the most part), I felt Nigeria presented a more credible challenge to the Argentines, compared to the 2014 team.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:55 pm 
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Otitokoro wrote:
How anyone can compare the 'state of play' of one team over another based on a 2 min clip is beyond me.
Frankly, I don't see how the 2014 team was deemed 'better' than the 2018 squad.

For one, both Nigerian teams met Argentina in the final group game, with Argentina on the following pts (2014 - 6 pts) and (2018 - 1 pt). Argentina was on the brink of group elimination in 2018, so it stands to reason that they would have brought their A++ game to the match, compared to 2014 where it was more of a formality (as they had already qualified for the next stage prior to meeting us).

Also, considering the ebbs and flow of the 2018 game (as well as the fact that the team was comprised of rookies for the most part), I felt Nigeria presented a more credible challenge to the Argentines, compared to the 2014 team.
Comparing the game reports and even the game stats for both games do not even suggest that there was much difference between the two performances. They even took Messi off in 2014 if I remember correctly.
I don't see what was "miles ahead" about the 2014 performance.
But the pain of the 2018 defeat was ten times worse for obvious reasons.
And it still hurts.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:59 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
Otitokoro wrote:
How anyone can compare the 'state of play' of one team over another based on a 2 min clip is beyond me.
Frankly, I don't see how the 2014 team was deemed 'better' than the 2018 squad.

For one, both Nigerian teams met Argentina in the final group game, with Argentina on the following pts (2014 - 6 pts) and (2018 - 1 pt). Argentina was on the brink of group elimination in 2018, so it stands to reason that they would have brought their A++ game to the match, compared to 2014 where it was more of a formality (as they had already qualified for the next stage prior to meeting us).

Also, considering the ebbs and flow of the 2018 game (as well as the fact that the team was comprised of rookies for the most part), I felt Nigeria presented a more credible challenge to the Argentines, compared to the 2014 team.
Comparing the game reports and even the game stats for both games do not even suggest that there was much difference between the two performances. They even took Messi off in 2014 if I remember correctly.
I don't see what was "miles ahead" about the 2014 performance.
But the pain of the 2018 defeat was ten times worse for obvious reasons.
And it still hurts.

We know you choose to ignore this:
Written by Dammy.
Quote:
I quite agree that Rohr's mentality affected the team negatively in Russia, while Keshi with the typical Nigerian " can do it" mentality affected his team's performance positively in Brazil.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:51 am 
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fabio wrote:
Damunk wrote:
Otitokoro wrote:
How anyone can compare the 'state of play' of one team over another based on a 2 min clip is beyond me.
Frankly, I don't see how the 2014 team was deemed 'better' than the 2018 squad.

For one, both Nigerian teams met Argentina in the final group game, with Argentina on the following pts (2014 - 6 pts) and (2018 - 1 pt). Argentina was on the brink of group elimination in 2018, so it stands to reason that they would have brought their A++ game to the match, compared to 2014 where it was more of a formality (as they had already qualified for the next stage prior to meeting us).

Also, considering the ebbs and flow of the 2018 game (as well as the fact that the team was comprised of rookies for the most part), I felt Nigeria presented a more credible challenge to the Argentines, compared to the 2014 team.
Comparing the game reports and even the game stats for both games do not even suggest that there was much difference between the two performances. They even took Messi off in 2014 if I remember correctly.
I don't see what was "miles ahead" about the 2014 performance.
But the pain of the 2018 defeat was ten times worse for obvious reasons.
And it still hurts.

We know you choose to ignore this:
Written by Dammy.
Quote:
I quite agree that Rohr's mentality affected the team negatively in Russia, while Keshi with the typical Nigerian " can do it" mentality affected his team's performance positively in Brazil.
Does it matter who wrote it? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
We don't do herd mentality or echo chambers here.
That's how "five years" became "six years" became "six and a half years".

We leave that one to you, Ohenhen, Bigporkey and company. :taunt: :taunt: :taunt:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:33 am 
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Damunk wrote:
Does it matter who wrote it? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
We don't do herd mentality or echo chambers here.
That's how "five years" became "six years" became "six and a half years".

We leave that one to you, Ohenhen, Bigporkey and company. :taunt: :taunt: :taunt:

Trying to comprehend how your response remotely relates to what I posted.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:12 am 
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Tobi17 wrote:
Honestly we gave the Argies way too much respect than they deserved.. that was probably the easiest Argentina team we ever faced even with Messi.
I believe the next time we meet Argentina in the WC we will beat them.
Write it down.
Nigeria as a footballing nation is maturing.
Its a slow psychological process.
Pele's prediction wasn't wrong. Just premature.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:24 pm 
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Otitokoro wrote:
How anyone can compare the 'state of play' of one team over another based on a 2 min clip is beyond me.
Frankly, I don't see how the 2014 team was deemed 'better' than the 2018 squad.

For one, both Nigerian teams met Argentina in the final group game, with Argentina on the following pts (2014 - 6 pts) and (2018 - 1 pt). Argentina was on the brink of group elimination in 2018, so it stands to reason that they would have brought their A++ game to the match, compared to 2014 where it was more of a formality (as they had already qualified for the next stage prior to meeting us).

Also, considering the ebbs and flow of the 2018 game (as well as the fact that the team was comprised of rookies for the most part), I felt Nigeria presented a more credible challenge to the Argentines, compared to the 2014 team.


It was NOT a formality for Argentina in 2014. They desperately needed to win the group so they would avoid the France/Germany/Brazil bracket, as opposed to getting the Switzerland/Belgium/Netherlands bracket. Did you see the aggression that they came at us with in the opening 5 minutes?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:51 pm 
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Argentina in 2014 did not need a win to head the group. Going into the Nigeria match, all they needed was a draw to maintain leading the group, having defeated Bosnia and Iran in their previous group games.
In 2018, Argentina most desperately needed a win against Nigeria, as they came into their final group match against us with only 1 point. A draw would have seen them exit the competion at the group stage, having lost to Croatia and tied Iceland in their previous group games.
Totally different circumstances.
And having had the honor and priviledge to have watched the very first encounter between both countries live (1994, Foxboro stadium), as well as all subsequent encounters hence, I can tell you for a fact that Argentina ALWAYS 'rushes' us in order to get a quick/early goal in order to defeat us psychologically. They play that way against us every single time!
Scipio Africanus wrote:
Otitokoro wrote:
How anyone can compare the 'state of play' of one team over another based on a 2 min clip is beyond me.
Frankly, I don't see how the 2014 team was deemed 'better' than the 2018 squad.

For one, both Nigerian teams met Argentina in the final group game, with Argentina on the following pts (2014 - 6 pts) and (2018 - 1 pt). Argentina was on the brink of group elimination in 2018, so it stands to reason that they would have brought their A++ game to the match, compared to 2014 where it was more of a formality (as they had already qualified for the next stage prior to meeting us).

Also, considering the ebbs and flow of the 2018 game (as well as the fact that the team was comprised of rookies for the most part), I felt Nigeria presented a more credible challenge to the Argentines, compared to the 2014 team.


It was NOT a formality for Argentina in 2014. They desperately needed to win the group so they would avoid the France/Germany/Brazil bracket, as opposed to getting the Switzerland/Belgium/Netherlands bracket. Did you see the aggression that they came at us with in the opening 5 minutes?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:02 pm 
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Otitokoro wrote:
Argentina in 2014 did not need a win to head the group. Going into the Nigeria match, all they needed was a draw to maintain leading the group, having defeated Bosnia and Iran in their previous group games.
In 2018, Argentina most desperately needed a win against Nigeria, as they came into their final group match against us with only 1 point. A draw would have seen them exit the competion at the group stage, having lost to Croatia and tied Iceland in their previous group games.
Totally different circumstances.
And having had the honor and priviledge to have watched the very first encounter between both countries live (1994, Foxboro stadium), as well as all subsequent encounters hence, I can tell you for a fact that Argentina ALWAYS 'rushes' us in order to get a quick/early goal in order to defeat us psychologically. They play that way against us every single time!
Scipio Africanus wrote:
Otitokoro wrote:
How anyone can compare the 'state of play' of one team over another based on a 2 min clip is beyond me.
Frankly, I don't see how the 2014 team was deemed 'better' than the 2018 squad.

For one, both Nigerian teams met Argentina in the final group game, with Argentina on the following pts (2014 - 6 pts) and (2018 - 1 pt). Argentina was on the brink of group elimination in 2018, so it stands to reason that they would have brought their A++ game to the match, compared to 2014 where it was more of a formality (as they had already qualified for the next stage prior to meeting us).

Also, considering the ebbs and flow of the 2018 game (as well as the fact that the team was comprised of rookies for the most part), I felt Nigeria presented a more credible challenge to the Argentines, compared to the 2014 team.


It was NOT a formality for Argentina in 2014. They desperately needed to win the group so they would avoid the France/Germany/Brazil bracket, as opposed to getting the Switzerland/Belgium/Netherlands bracket. Did you see the aggression that they came at us with in the opening 5 minutes?


Where did I say Argentina needed a win to head the group in 2014? You are arguing against yourself.

You think it is easy to plan for a draw and play it out? How did it go for us in 2018 when we just needed a draw against Argentina to advance to the next round?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:07 pm 
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The second most painful Nigeria match seen at a World Cup. I have seen it all btw.... except the three matches in Korea & Japan 2002. The number of Argentinian fans in the stadium in St. Petersburg was mad crazy. Most of them were smoking and nervous until the end. Then they have the nerve to ask us to exchange jerseys with them after the match? Hell NO! The Nigerian jersey was a picture magnet and an attention-getter in Russia.

Beautiful Russian city St. Petersburg. It reminded me of Paris. The NFF group stayed in our hotel, Hilton Saint Petersburg ExpoForum. The Chairman was on our floor. That dude gets big head sha!

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:05 pm 
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ohenhen1 wrote:
One coach was aggressive. The other was super conservative. Nigeria used to play with confidence and swagger. Thanks to wowo crew and Rohr. Nigeria is now playing scared. We need to get rid of Rohr and build a team that is aggressive and plays with confidence.


The thing is, the current crop of players coming through for the SE look like they can play aggressively. It all depends on the coach's philosophy. With Rohr in charge I say forget it.

Rohr ain't going to change and the SE may continue to play conservative football. The only thing which might happen is the players picked might have a naturally aggressive "default" approach thereby negating the coaches natural conservative inclinations.

One can only hope for the latter.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:05 am 
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DIMKA76 wrote:
ohenhen1 wrote:
One coach was aggressive. The other was super conservative. Nigeria used to play with confidence and swagger. Thanks to wowo crew and Rohr. Nigeria is now playing scared. We need to get rid of Rohr and build a team that is aggressive and plays with confidence.


The thing is, the current crop of players coming through for the SE look like they can play aggressively. It all depends on the coach's philosophy. With Rohr in charge I say forget it.

Rohr ain't going to change and the SE may continue to play conservative football. The only thing which might happen is the players picked might have a naturally aggressive "default" approach thereby negating the coaches natural conservative inclinations.

One can only hope for the latter.

Since AFCON 2019, with the exception of the game against Brazil, the team have played aggressive attacking football. It seems the criticism and probably the quality of new players has made Rohr to drop his conservative approach.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:27 am 
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Rohr plays conservative football in tournaments, in friendly matches and qualifiers he doesn't.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:56 am 
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What do we mean by "playing aggressively"?
Or do we just mean attacking football which thrilled the world in '94/96?
We don't want the "aggressive" football that got us countless yellow cards in '94.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:03 am 
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Undertaker wrote:
The second most painful Nigeria match seen at a World Cup. I have seen it all btw.... except the three matches in Korea & Japan 2002. The number of Argentinian fans in the stadium in St. Petersburg was mad crazy. Most of them were smoking and nervous until the end. Then they have the nerve to ask us to exchange jerseys with them after the match? Hell NO! The Nigerian jersey was a picture magnet and an attention-getter in Russia.

Beautiful Russian city St. Petersburg. It reminded me of Paris. The NFF group stayed in our hotel, Hilton Saint Petersburg ExpoForum. The Chairman was on our floor. That dude gets big head sha!

St Petersburg is a beautiful city. I went there at the last minute to try and get tickets for the game. Spent most of my time in Moscow and saw the Iceland game in Volgograd.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:20 am 
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Damunk wrote:
What do we mean by "playing aggressively"?
Or do we just mean attacking football which thrilled the world in '94/96?
We don't want the "aggressive" football that got us countless yellow cards in '94.


I am sure you know what people are referring to when they use the word aggressive. For one , you can have possession of the ball in advanced positions and never look like scoring. You can also have the ball and look threatening every time you get into those advanced positions.

Attacking with pace and killing a flock of birds each time neither looks aggressive nor threatening. So there has to be a consistency in outcomes to determine either. Coming very close to scoring on nearly every attempt in in line with aggressive and threatening play.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:27 am 
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Scipio Africanus wrote:
Otitokoro wrote:
How anyone can compare the 'state of play' of one team over another based on a 2 min clip is beyond me.
Frankly, I don't see how the 2014 team was deemed 'better' than the 2018 squad.

For one, both Nigerian teams met Argentina in the final group game, with Argentina on the following pts (2014 - 6 pts) and (2018 - 1 pt). Argentina was on the brink of group elimination in 2018, so it stands to reason that they would have brought their A++ game to the match, compared to 2014 where it was more of a formality (as they had already qualified for the next stage prior to meeting us).

Also, considering the ebbs and flow of the 2018 game (as well as the fact that the team was comprised of rookies for the most part), I felt Nigeria presented a more credible challenge to the Argentines, compared to the 2014 team.


It was NOT a formality for Argentina in 2014. They desperately needed to win the group so they would avoid the France/Germany/Brazil bracket, as opposed to getting the Switzerland/Belgium/Netherlands bracket. Did you see the aggression that they came at us with in the opening 5 minutes?

This is borne from the fact, they know Naija are perennial slow starters.

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