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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:36 pm 
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Guess we have returned to the days of fighting for shirt. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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metalalloy wrote:
Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:58 pm 
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Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Well, let's see if he follows with action. Good thing is at least they will have a good sense of what exists rather than blaming lack of data or a manufactured claim of lack of worthy talent.



Chief, it is not just his campaign.

There are many facets of nation-building. One of which is to support the primary sport most Naijarians play. A sport majority play at home than at 'the abroad'.

Sustainable development of talent is still best done in Naijaria before you now create a market for them.

It amuses me when people who caught breaks throughout their lives snicker at opportunities extended to people who were not as fortunate.

You have to be able to show players that you can be scouted regardless of where you ply your trade and that includes Naijaria.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:05 pm 
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Omo this move sounds like a man must wack move. The NFF must improve the standard through the right channels, first - Get Naija clubs competing in African championship competitions and advance into the later stages. They can't graduate into the national team by right. Majority of the players in Europe have fought their way off the bench in far more competitive leagues than Naija's leagues so it's a case of putting the cart before the horse. This move will backfire badly.

This is not to say Rohr should ignore the local league but I don't believe he must watch every game. Last time Rohr watched a local game I believe he had valuable documents stolen. I doubt the sincerity of this move in so many ways.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:06 pm 
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fabio wrote:
Dammy wrote:
I know better now with the persistent campaign for home based players by the same people who eulogised Keshi because he pandered to their whims!
BTW, I have it on good authority that this story is bullshit and Rohr has no intention of throwing the camp open for home based players.
So the purveyors should try something else!

Was Keshi under Pressure or he did it for money :mrgreen: That´s what we need to know. Thanks!


Keshi was under tremendous pressure. He was under pressure that was tied directly to the release of funds to do his job. That is how the NFF gets coaches.

Even Westerhof wasn't immune to the purse-string blackmail until he got direct access to the VP and he sorta was able to have a freer hand... note, not a free hand, but a freer hand.

Remember Keshi saying there were people working against the team...

Then Oliseh said the same... even that they were trying to kill him. He wisely left the job for them.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:25 pm 
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It doesn't matter what Keshi or Amodu did, or which homebased "gems" were unearthed in the past.

We are in a completely new era. We have never in our history had the current depth in quality players covering almost every position.

We are at a point where the likes of Ejuke who was a top player in Holland cannot even get an invite, a player like Dennis who is courted by top clubs can barely get a look in.

We could have a situation where Bazee, Lookman, Dennis, Ejuke all will not make the team. These players would have been guaranteed locks for any past squad years ago.

In striking position, it is likely Iheanacho will not be good enough, we have Osimehn, Dessers, Sadiq who is being courted by top clubs, we have Maja, we have even Musa who can be deployed up top.

We have so much depth in midfield that key players of the recent past like Etebo will be mostly confined to the bench. Up and comers like Alhassan Yusuf, Kingsley Michael, new additions Aribo and Ejaria.

Defence we are stacked too.

So where exactly is the room for homebased players ? There is no room.

Nigeria has thousands of players playing abroad in better leagues. Why on earth would we look to local leagues.

Even Brazil and Argentina who actually have very good domestic leagues, how many players do they chose from there ?

How many players do Morocco, Algeria chose from their local leagues ?

Abeg all this talk is just nonsense.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:22 pm 
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vancity eagle wrote:
It doesn't matter what Keshi or Amodu did, or which homebased "gems" were unearthed in the past.

We are in a completely new era. We have never in our history had the current depth in quality players covering almost every position.

Quote:
We heard that before Amodu and before Keshi but both coaches proved otherwise. We are hearing it again. Fact is that the production of players in Nigeria has not stopped and is unlikely to stop in foreseeable future.


We are at a point where the likes of Ejuke who was a top player in Holland cannot even get an invite, a player like Dennis who is courted by top clubs can barely get a look in.

We could have a situation where Bazee, Lookman, Dennis, Ejuke all will not make the team. These players would have been guaranteed locks for any past squad years ago.

Quote:
Not really. Nothing has changed. This is an era where a division III player is still called up, is is not? It is possible that the very Division III player can go on and Starr for Nigeria in this ERA. This is simply a process of opportunity. Who has it, and who does not? There is no objective criteria here or has there ever been one.


In striking position, it is likely Iheanacho will not be good enough, we have Osimehn, Dessers, Sadiq who is being courted by top clubs, we have Maja, we have even Musa who can be deployed up top.

We have so much depth in midfield that key players of the recent past like Etebo will be mostly confined to the bench. Up and comers like Alhassan Yusuf, Kingsley Michael, new additions Aribo and Ejaria.

Defence we are stacked too.

So where exactly is the room for homebased players ? There is no room.

Nigeria has thousands of players playing abroad in better leagues. Why on earth would we look to local leagues.

Quote:
Because invitation is not issued to leagues but to individual players.

Even Brazil and Argentina who actually have very good domestic leagues, how many players do they chose from there ?

How many players do Morocco, Algeria chose from their local leagues ?

Abeg all this talk is just nonsense.
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Okay, so we have to look to Algeria before making our decision? Okay, let us just hope that the all powerful team that you project can easily dispose of the likes of Uganda and Kenya and easily win the AFCON. Here, I am not even talking abut the World Cup. The test is overwhelming just the African opposition. That will be the test and not simply about loading the team with Europe-born players.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:23 pm 
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Enugu ll, Dutch first division team, Sparta Rotterdam, have announced on their social media pages that they have signed your boy, Maduka Okoye, on a 2 year deal subject to his passing the medicals.
Congratulations and thanks for encouraging the young man in his career.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:33 pm 
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Dammy wrote:
Enugu ll, Dutch first division team, Sparta Rotterdam, have announced on their social media pages that they have signed your boy, Maduka Okoye, on a 2 year deal subject to his passing the medicals.
Congratulations and thanks for encouraging the young man in his career.
And even greater thanks to Fabio and Fatporkey who regularly 'reminded' the young lad that he was an undeserving, "4th Division'', foreign-born,'hey you!'.
It obviously spurred the young man on to greater heights!
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Quote:
SPARTA CONTRACTS GOALKEEPER OKOYE
July 13, 2020 - 13:22
Sparta Rotterdam has strengthened itself, with the exception of the medical examination, with Maduka Okoye. The twenty-year-old goalkeeper comes over from Fortuna Düsseldorf transfer-free and signs for two seasons, with an option for another two years. Okoye, who holds both a German and Nigerian passport, made his debut for the Nigerian national team in November 2019, in a friendly match against Brazil.

'With Maduka we bring in a great talent,' says Henk van Stee, 'who has a lot of potential. He was in the interest of several clubs from different countries, but he believes he can take the next step at Sparta. We believe he can be of value to this club and are happy that he signed here. ”

https://www.sparta-rotterdam.nl/sparta- ... man-okoye/

Now is is chance.
He needs to literally grab it with both hands.
:thumbs:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:53 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
And even greater thanks to Fabio and Fatporkey who regularly 'reminded' the young lad that he was an undeserving, "4th Division'', foreign-born,'hey you!'.
It obviously spurred the young man on to greater heights!
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

:thumbs:

I was not going to respond, however, it would be apt to set the records straight.

Maduka was playing in the German 4th division when he was fast tracked into the SE. Facts!

Little did I know, my comments about Maduka playing in the 4th division in Germany would spur him into greater heights. Emotions

Facts vs Emotions!

Congrats to Maduka!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:12 pm 
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Dammy wrote:
Enugu ll, Dutch first division team, Sparta Rotterdam, have announced on their social media pages that they have signed your boy, Maduka Okoye, on a 2 year deal subject to his passing the medicals.
Congratulations and thanks for encouraging the young man in his career.



Dammy,

Good news for Maduka and hopefully it will help Nigeria in the near future.

Apparently, Rohr's work of getting him undeservedly to the SE has helped the guy improve his contract status. An eerily similar move that Keshi was accessed of making at his time and to which Rohr itself has recently acknowledged may be going on with several foreign-born nationals announcing interest in Nigeria. A good move by Maduka to help his own career and hopefully the extra training he also gets with Nigeria can also help us in the long run.

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The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:36 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
Dammy wrote:
Enugu ll, Dutch first division team, Sparta Rotterdam, have announced on their social media pages that they have signed your boy, Maduka Okoye, on a 2 year deal subject to his passing the medicals.
Congratulations and thanks for encouraging the young man in his career.


Dammy,

Good news for Maduka and hopefully it will help Nigeria in the near future.

Apparently, Rohr's work of getting him undeservedly to the SE has helped the guy improve his contract status. An eerily similar move that Keshi was accessed of making at his time and to which Rohr itself has recently acknowledged may be going on with several foreign-born nationals announcing interest in Nigeria. A good move by Maduka to help his own career and hopefully the extra training he also gets with Nigeria can also help us in the long run.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:06 am 
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Enugu II wrote:
Damunk,

Believe me, I profoundly respect your opinion. You should know that. I know you want the best for Nigeria. I do not doubt that for a second.

What I feel on this matter is that Nigeria is missing a lot by ignoring home based. I point out to several reasons why I feel that this ignoring is by design more than anything else. Here are some of those reasons:

1. There is no doubt that Rohr is influenced largely by Adelakun who not only helped recruit the former but has since then become an assistant siting on Rohr's bench even though we are not sure what exactly his (Adelakun) technical background is. Adelakun has said he is responsible for scouting.
2. Go back to Pinnick's antecedents. Recall, how he recruited heavily from overseas to have track stars feature for his state while Director of Sports. It DID PRODUCE RESULTS (I will give him that).
3. One of Pinnick's major appearances as NFF Chair was to oversee a camp of Nigerian born kids in London during a failed international schedule for SE in London He told the media then that they were watching the future of SE. Link this to #2 above.
4. Rohr has invited local-based players, in my view, to quiet the criticism at one and not necessarily because he believes in these players. Note that most of the invited players join camp just once and then they are ditched. EXCUSE OFFERED: They left for overseas club. Really! Since the does leaving for another club mean you cannot be invited again? If he is willing to ditch them that means he did not believe they are worthy in the first place and that he merely called them up to meet his "believed quota' of locally-based players. Thus, if the player leaves, the player no longer is useful to fill this quota.If this is not perfunctory then I do not know what perfunctory is.
5. Rohr called up Okoye simply because he is foreign-based. What exactly had Okoye done to deserve the initial call-up besides the fact that he was based overseas? Meanwhile, the invitation also included brushing him up with extra training by the NT coaches. Mind you, it is an extra training not offered to any home-based players including Ezenwa.
6. When it emerged that Adelakun spilled the beans on how these invitations go out --( he noted that local players were being ignored because there was no stats on them) it removed a huge mystery. It was not because they may not be good enough but simply because stats did not exist. Yet we have several homebred players at goalkeeping position playing but we can invite a third division guy wired to the bench? When the heat was turned on Adelakun, he retraced his statement claiming there were others focusing locally. But did he ever address how data plays in invitation of players? He never did. Who invites (or recommend "politically correct") the bulk of players? We all know it is Adelakun.
7. While I believe the best of our players are based outside the country, I do believe talent can be found consistently still in the country. Player development is continual and as long as far more players are still based in Nigeria, that talent will be churned out on continued basis.
8. This is by no means the first time we have been told (under foreign coaches) that local players are not good enough. Yet, we have (under Amodu and then Keshi) that it is a a BIG LIE and at best a LAZY response. Amodu found three that help us qualify for the 2002 World Cup when hopes seemed dashed under Bonfrere. We saw Keshi do it after we were told no local guys were good enough. In doing so we saw a local - Sunday Mba -- not only outplay the foreign-based Igiebor but become a hero as Nigeria won the AFCON.

All I am saying is give Nigeria the best chance to win. Do not ignore a space where most Nigerian players currently ply their trade. That is my point.



Damunk wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Damunk wrote:
Next wrote:
Throwing the camp open to HB players does not necessarily mean he would select any for the SE. Maybe, ´he's just doing it to pacify those clamoring for it and at the long run says, "You, see, l did open the camp for them, but they are not just good enough".
Really?
How much you wan bet?

Which mouth him wan use talk say e no see local material?
Its now political.
Watch this space. :idea:

Quote:
Case Closed!!
My brotha, tori just start....



Good point about political. It has been political when a third division player is selected simply because he is playing overseas. Clearly, it means that something is amiss. It seems clear to me that a decision had been made to not pay attention to the vast majority of Nigerian players -- those playing locally. While it is a given that most of our best players are playing outside the country, it does not and should not mean that a few can still be found at home. We will soon find out if this claim by Rohr is serious or simply a continuation of his perfunctory attitude about paying attention to players developing at home.
Prof, you know we both differ on this matter.
I am convinced that Rohr will pick and would always have picked local players if believed good enough, but your position is that he somehow has a bias against them and therefore, even if outstanding, would never pick them.

I am not sure what your position is on the role of his local assistants (Yusuf, Imana and Agu etc) and why they too have failed to unearth local 'gems' even when in charge of the CHAN, WAFU and U23 teams. It must either be they are totally incompetent or are part of the NFF conspiracy.

It is very unfortunate that Maduka Okoye has been repeatedly and unfairly used as the sole whipping boy of the campaigners for local call-ups and I pray he doesn't take it personally.

To find yourself held up as the next 'Babatunde Messi' at such a young age cannot be nice. Even he was not singled out. He was one of a few 'hey yous', including Reuben Gabriel, Michael Uchebo and Sola Ameobi.



I'VE ALWAYS FELT THAT...


...a coach who relies on stats first doesn't know what he's/she's doing. Stats should be used to confirm suspicions, not to make selections.
Bell

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