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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:32 pm 
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what exactly does Rohrs assistants do ? I mean where were they when fails to make a single sub to kill the Argentina game in Russia, do they even have any impute in anything. abeg commot make we hear word!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:02 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
chief nfachairman wrote:
https://www.owngoalnigeria.com/2020/06/19/ladan-bosso-replaces-salisu-yusuf-in-super-eagles-technical-crew/

Ladan Bonzo? Failed U20 coach that still doesnt know nada?

We have serious issues in this country


But is the guy he is assisting a high achiever? Just asking. Don't get me wrong, I wonder why Bosso but similar questions may also be asked about Rohr.

But to be honest bros adding Bozo to Rohr's team is akin to asking a thief to help guard the vault...yes the primary guard may not be the best but at least he tries to guard it...this one get as a be..and e be as e get

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:29 am 
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Damunk wrote:
wanaj0 wrote:
Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
chief nfachairman wrote:
https://www.owngoalnigeria.com/2020/06/19/ladan-bosso-replaces-salisu-yusuf-in-super-eagles-technical-crew/

Ladan Bonzo? Failed U20 coach that still doesnt know nada?

We have serious issues in this country


But is the guy he is assisting a high achiever? Just asking. Don't get me wrong, I wonder why Bosso but similar questions may also be asked about Rohr.

I knew deep down you didn't support the retention if Rohr despite your public acknowledgement.



Dammy,

My stance is clear. I support Rohr's retention simply because it maintains consistency, which is something I have always supported but that does not mean the jury is not out on him. He must now produce or Nigeria should move on. That is my position. He would have had enough time in the position to produce or be let go. That has not changed. As a matter of fact if he completes his term he would have been Nigeria's longest serving coach by number of games played. There will be NO EXCUSES at that time. Others have had less time with the team and have produced.

If Rohr is fired today, I believe you will give reasons to justify it. Let the man do the job he has been hired for in the best way that suits him and not you!
No one is teaching you how to do your job, so you and Owolabi should not try to teach him how to do his job.


I agree with this and I HOPE we extend this to ALL coaches especially those with a different colour of skin.

If we cannot teach the coach how to do his job we should be able to tell him how he will be judged and what is expected of him.

Keshi won ANC and got to 2nd round of WC in his FIRST attempt! Will it be TOO MUCH if we ask Rohr to meet that in his 2nd attempt? Or we should wait till the 7th attempt before asking such of him?
Who said it is too much to ask? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
Wanaj0 you dey fall person hand o.
Is the debate about targets or about the call for an instant sack should he fail to deliver?

Weytin dey do you anti-Rohr 'fact checkers' nowadays sef?
How many times we wan talk am? Seven times? Seventy? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:


Not sure the point you are making.

Maybe you can make it clear under what condition (s) you think the appointment of a SE coach should be terminated? What will be your realistic target for the coach? How long should he be given to achieve the target?

Thank you.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:26 am 
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wanaj0 wrote:
Not sure the point you are making.

Maybe you can make it clear under what condition (s) you think the appointment of a SE coach should be terminated? What will be your realistic target for the coach? How long should he be given to achieve the target?

Thank you.
Not sure why you cant (more like won't) see the point I and several others are making and have been making from the get go.
Even if my communication skills are that poor, what about the others? :rotf:

So let's try again.
1. Give him a target. Already done: "Win AFCON 2020"
2. If you fail to win it, we will re-evaluate your contract.
3. That re-evaluation will involve the circumstances in which you failed to win AFCON

That's why I say you are arguing with yourself on one point and then completely ignoring the caveat.

It couldn't be simpler.
"Winning" and "losing' AFCON could be as fortuitous as Ikpeba's AFCON 2000 penalty v Cameroon.
Quote:
"The final was one dramatic moment I will never forget in my life. We all remember what happened... People still talk about that incident 20 years now and maybe in 50 years time they will still be talking about it" - Victor Ikpeba


Sack the coach!!!
Like Spain instantly sacked Vicente del Bosque after their 2014 WC debacle
Like Germany instantly sacked Joachim Low after their 2018 WC debacle
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:16 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
wanaj0 wrote:
Not sure the point you are making.

Maybe you can make it clear under what condition (s) you think the appointment of a SE coach should be terminated? What will be your realistic target for the coach? How long should he be given to achieve the target?

Thank you.
Not sure why you cant (more like won't) see the point I and several others are making and have been making from the get go.
Even if my communication skills are that poor, what about the others? :rotf:

So let's try again.
1. Give him a target. Already done: "Win AFCON 2020"
2. If you fail to win it, we will re-evaluate your contract.
3. That re-evaluation will involve the circumstances in which you failed to win AFCON

That's why I say you are arguing with yourself on one point and then completely ignoring the caveat.

It couldn't be simpler.
"Winning" and "losing' AFCON could be as fortuitous as Ikpeba's AFCON 2000 penalty v Cameroon.
Quote:
"The final was one dramatic moment I will never forget in my life. We all remember what happened... People still talk about that incident 20 years now and maybe in 50 years time they will still be talking about it" - Victor Ikpeba


Sack the coach!!!
Like Spain instantly sacked Vicente del Bosque after their 2014 WC debacle
Like Germany instantly sacked Joachim Low after their 2018 WC debacle
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:


Bros, don't let the last part kill your argument abeg, how can you compare successful coaches to Rohr? That is a travesty, those coaches had earned the right not to be fired based their previous trophy winning success, of which Rohr has none. :tic: And in fact didn't meet his target at the last WC and was still retained... :biggrin:

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Last edited by maceo4 on Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:16 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
fabio wrote:
Dammy wrote:
If Rohr is fired today, I believe you will give reasons to justify it. Let the man do the job he has been hired for in the best way that suits him and not you!
No one is teaching you how to do your job, so you and Owolabi should not try to teach him how to do his job.

Taking this Rohr defense personally, why? No one is teaching anyone how to do their job. What we want is results like (AfCon champions and WC 2nd round) not excuses.
So let him get on wth the job and stop demanding results on YOUR terms.
Isnt that what this is all about?
Maduka this, Maduka that.
Kuku say he collected bribe or is banging Maduka's aunty.
At least we go know say you get reason. :idea:

oh my goodness, damunk why are you trying to derail this topic? kai ...now you bring up a goalie... the topic is about the coaches..chei..

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:42 pm 
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Damunk,

You fall my hand here ooo! Yes, there is an element of luck in winning but winners make their own luck bros. Keshi who won the AFCON and took Togo to World Cup, took Nigeria to the first home-based continental qualifiers must certainly be very lucky indeed. Perhaps, if Rohr isn't that lucky we should jettison him and get a lucky one. We need one to win the AFCON again.

In any case, I am miffed that Bosso's stated qualification is that he is the most SENIOR NFF coach. What rubbish. This is what you get when Civil Service rules become the rules for selecting coaches. We have Abdu Maikaba who has been quite successful with his teams and had those teams playing attractive football (perhaps, even more so that Rohr, LOL!) but yet he is ignored. How about Ogunbote who has also consistently produced with local teams? Yet, the NFF selects Bosso because of seniority. Why not Finidi, a young guy with the much-vaunted "Europe" in him. I would not mention Amuneke because it is an insult, in my book, to name him as an Assistant to Rohr. Amuneke should ONLY be considered as the Main Manager, nothing less given his experiences thus far.

Damunk wrote:
wanaj0 wrote:
Not sure the point you are making.

Maybe you can make it clear under what condition (s) you think the appointment of a SE coach should be terminated? What will be your realistic target for the coach? How long should he be given to achieve the target?

Thank you.
Not sure why you cant (more like won't) see the point I and several others are making and have been making from the get go.
Even if my communication skills are that poor, what about the others? :rotf:

So let's try again.
1. Give him a target. Already done: "Win AFCON 2020"
2. If you fail to win it, we will re-evaluate your contract.
3. That re-evaluation will involve the circumstances in which you failed to win AFCON

That's why I say you are arguing with yourself on one point and then completely ignoring the caveat.

It couldn't be simpler.
"Winning" and "losing' AFCON could be as fortuitous as Ikpeba's AFCON 2000 penalty v Cameroon.
Quote:
"The final was one dramatic moment I will never forget in my life. We all remember what happened... People still talk about that incident 20 years now and maybe in 50 years time they will still be talking about it" - Victor Ikpeba


Sack the coach!!!
Like Spain instantly sacked Vicente del Bosque after their 2014 WC debacle
Like Germany instantly sacked Joachim Low after their 2018 WC debacle
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

_________________
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:55 pm 
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Chief, I am not sure you have been following my discussion with wurunaj0.

My only reason for bringing the 'luck' element into it is to show how you cannot just sack a coach because he has a solitary moment of 'bad luck'. I used the Ikpeba 'goal' to illustrate that it would be a gross injustice to sack a coach for not winning AFCON in that manner, or in similar circumstances.
Therefore the manner of losing has to be taken into account.
But there seem to be some that believe a loss is a loss is a loss.

Even worse performances like Spain (WC 2014) and Germany (WC 2018) didn't lead to the coaches' instant sack, so why would someone get sacked with far better performances or, in fact a last second failure to "win" due to a refereeing error like we suffered in AFCON 2000?
That is all that was about.
Not, as you seem to suggest, that we need to rely on luck or use "bad luck' as an excuse.

Its all about context and I don't believe you are of the opinion that there is any such thing as a 'lucky' or 'unlucky' coach that one can factor into the decision to hire and fire.
That is bordering on superstition.

As for Bosso, I have no views on him. He won't be the first or the last local coach to be hired and fired by the NFF.
Finidi is an enigma. There must be something going on. But there is also the possibility that he is not even interested and na we dey make assumptions.
He hasn't said a word on the matter as far as I know and that in itself is strange. :idea:

Enugu II wrote:
Damunk,

You fall my hand here ooo! Yes, there is an element of luck in winning but winners make their own luck bros. Keshi who won the AFCON and took Togo to World Cup, took Nigeria to the first home-based continental qualifiers must certainly be very lucky indeed. Perhaps, if Rohr isn't that lucky we should jettison him and get a lucky one. We need one to win the AFCON again.

In any case, I am miffed that Bosso's stated qualification is that he is the most SENIOR NFF coach. What rubbish. This is what you get when Civil Service rules become the rules for selecting coaches. We have Abdu Maikaba who has been quite successful with his teams and had those teams playing attractive football (perhaps, even more so that Rohr, LOL!) but yet he is ignored. How about Ogunbote who has also consistently produced with local teams? Yet, the NFF selects Bosso because of seniority. Why not Finidi, a young guy with the much-vaunted "Europe" in him. I would not mention Amuneke because it is an insult, in my book, to name him as an Assistant to Rohr. Amuneke should ONLY be considered as the Main Manager, nothing less given his experiences thus far.

Damunk wrote:
wanaj0 wrote:
Not sure the point you are making.

Maybe you can make it clear under what condition (s) you think the appointment of a SE coach should be terminated? What will be your realistic target for the coach? How long should he be given to achieve the target?

Thank you.
Not sure why you cant (more like won't) see the point I and several others are making and have been making from the get go.
Even if my communication skills are that poor, what about the others? :rotf:

So let's try again.
1. Give him a target. Already done: "Win AFCON 2020"
2. If you fail to win it, we will re-evaluate your contract.
3. That re-evaluation will involve the circumstances in which you failed to win AFCON

That's why I say you are arguing with yourself on one point and then completely ignoring the caveat.

It couldn't be simpler.
"Winning" and "losing' AFCON could be as fortuitous as Ikpeba's AFCON 2000 penalty v Cameroon.
Quote:
"The final was one dramatic moment I will never forget in my life. We all remember what happened... People still talk about that incident 20 years now and maybe in 50 years time they will still be talking about it" - Victor Ikpeba


Sack the coach!!!
Like Spain instantly sacked Vicente del Bosque after their 2014 WC debacle
Like Germany instantly sacked Joachim Low after their 2018 WC debacle
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

_________________
"Ole kuku ni gbogbo wọn "


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:12 pm 
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maceo4 wrote:
Damunk wrote:
wanaj0 wrote:
Not sure the point you are making.

Maybe you can make it clear under what condition (s) you think the appointment of a SE coach should be terminated? What will be your realistic target for the coach? How long should he be given to achieve the target?

Thank you.
Not sure why you cant (more like won't) see the point I and several others are making and have been making from the get go.
Even if my communication skills are that poor, what about the others? :rotf:

So let's try again.
1. Give him a target. Already done: "Win AFCON 2020"
2. If you fail to win it, we will re-evaluate your contract.
3. That re-evaluation will involve the circumstances in which you failed to win AFCON

That's why I say you are arguing with yourself on one point and then completely ignoring the caveat.

It couldn't be simpler.
"Winning" and "losing' AFCON could be as fortuitous as Ikpeba's AFCON 2000 penalty v Cameroon.
Quote:
"The final was one dramatic moment I will never forget in my life. We all remember what happened... People still talk about that incident 20 years now and maybe in 50 years time they will still be talking about it" - Victor Ikpeba


Sack the coach!!!
Like Spain instantly sacked Vicente del Bosque after their 2014 WC debacle
Like Germany instantly sacked Joachim Low after their 2018 WC debacle
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:


Bros, don't let the last part kill your argument abeg, how can you compare successful coaches to Rohr? That is a travesty, those coaches had earned the right not to be fired based their previous trophy winning success, of which Rohr has none. :tic: And in fact didn't meet his target at the last WC and was still retained... :biggrin:
ANC, context my brother! Context.
It embarrasses me to have to explain to you that I am not comparing Lowe and del Bosque with Rohr.

You do not see the bizareness of the situation?
Spain and Germany fail to reach WC 2nd round. They don't panic and keep their caches.
Nigeria fails to reach the second round and want to automatically sack their coach.
Weytin una chop?

The God given right Nigerians believe we have to win AFCON is no bigger than the same ''right" Germany and Spain believe they have to reach "ordinary" second round of the WC, yet na we dey vex pass for winning a bronze and the same first round WC exit.

Calm down. Make persin die first before you bury am. AFCON is just next year.
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:27 pm 
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Damunk,

Thanks for clarifying. For a moment, I had to double take and ask "This isn't Damunk that I am familiar with." You for don fall my hand, well well. :rotf:

As for Finidi. It is actually well documented. He has been applying for NT jobs in Nigeria and has said as much in interviews. I just do not understand why he has not been given an opportunity as an Assistant. He has the papers if one is to trust media reports. Now, the stuff one reads here is Bosso being appointed because he is the "moist senior" coach. Rubbish. So, seniority has become a criterion if not the CRITERIA. There are coaches in Nigeria who have consistently proven themselves, and yet.......

Damunk wrote:
Chief, I am not sure you have been following my discussion with wurunaj0.

My only reason for bringing the 'luck' element into it is to show how you cannot just sack a coach because he has a solitary moment of 'bad luck'. I used the Ikpeba 'goal' to illustrate that it would be a gross injustice to sack a coach for not winning AFCON in that manner, or in similar circumstances.
Therefore the manner of losing has to be taken into account.
But there seem to be some that believe a loss is a loss is a loss.

Even worse performances like Spain (WC 2014) and Germany (WC 2018) didn't lead to the coaches' instant sack, so why would someone get sacked with far better performances or, in fact a last second failure to "win" due to a refereeing error like we suffered in AFCON 2000?
That is all that was about.
Not, as you seem to suggest, that we need to rely on luck or use "bad luck' as an excuse.

Its all about context and I don't believe you are of the opinion that there is any such thing as a 'lucky' or 'unlucky' coach that one can factor into the decision to hire and fire.
That is bordering on superstition.

As for Bosso, I have no views on him. He won't be the first or the last local coach to be hired and fired by the NFF.
Finidi is an enigma. There must be something going on. But there is also the possibility that he is not even interested and na we dey make assumptions.
He hasn't said a word on the matter as far as I know and that in itself is strange. :idea:

Enugu II wrote:
Damunk,

You fall my hand here ooo! Yes, there is an element of luck in winning but winners make their own luck bros. Keshi who won the AFCON and took Togo to World Cup, took Nigeria to the first home-based continental qualifiers must certainly be very lucky indeed. Perhaps, if Rohr isn't that lucky we should jettison him and get a lucky one. We need one to win the AFCON again.

In any case, I am miffed that Bosso's stated qualification is that he is the most SENIOR NFF coach. What rubbish. This is what you get when Civil Service rules become the rules for selecting coaches. We have Abdu Maikaba who has been quite successful with his teams and had those teams playing attractive football (perhaps, even more so that Rohr, LOL!) but yet he is ignored. How about Ogunbote who has also consistently produced with local teams? Yet, the NFF selects Bosso because of seniority. Why not Finidi, a young guy with the much-vaunted "Europe" in him. I would not mention Amuneke because it is an insult, in my book, to name him as an Assistant to Rohr. Amuneke should ONLY be considered as the Main Manager, nothing less given his experiences thus far.

Damunk wrote:
wanaj0 wrote:
Not sure the point you are making.

Maybe you can make it clear under what condition (s) you think the appointment of a SE coach should be terminated? What will be your realistic target for the coach? How long should he be given to achieve the target?

Thank you.
Not sure why you cant (more like won't) see the point I and several others are making and have been making from the get go.
Even if my communication skills are that poor, what about the others? :rotf:

So let's try again.
1. Give him a target. Already done: "Win AFCON 2020"
2. If you fail to win it, we will re-evaluate your contract.
3. That re-evaluation will involve the circumstances in which you failed to win AFCON

That's why I say you are arguing with yourself on one point and then completely ignoring the caveat.

It couldn't be simpler.
"Winning" and "losing' AFCON could be as fortuitous as Ikpeba's AFCON 2000 penalty v Cameroon.
Quote:
"The final was one dramatic moment I will never forget in my life. We all remember what happened... People still talk about that incident 20 years now and maybe in 50 years time they will still be talking about it" - Victor Ikpeba


Sack the coach!!!
Like Spain instantly sacked Vicente del Bosque after their 2014 WC debacle
Like Germany instantly sacked Joachim Low after their 2018 WC debacle
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

_________________
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:30 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
maceo4 wrote:
Damunk wrote:
wanaj0 wrote:
Not sure the point you are making.

Maybe you can make it clear under what condition (s) you think the appointment of a SE coach should be terminated? What will be your realistic target for the coach? How long should he be given to achieve the target?

Thank you.
Not sure why you cant (more like won't) see the point I and several others are making and have been making from the get go.
Even if my communication skills are that poor, what about the others? :rotf:

So let's try again.
1. Give him a target. Already done: "Win AFCON 2020"
2. If you fail to win it, we will re-evaluate your contract.
3. That re-evaluation will involve the circumstances in which you failed to win AFCON

That's why I say you are arguing with yourself on one point and then completely ignoring the caveat.

It couldn't be simpler.
"Winning" and "losing' AFCON could be as fortuitous as Ikpeba's AFCON 2000 penalty v Cameroon.
Quote:
"The final was one dramatic moment I will never forget in my life. We all remember what happened... People still talk about that incident 20 years now and maybe in 50 years time they will still be talking about it" - Victor Ikpeba


Sack the coach!!!
Like Spain instantly sacked Vicente del Bosque after their 2014 WC debacle
Like Germany instantly sacked Joachim Low after their 2018 WC debacle
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:


Bros, don't let the last part kill your argument abeg, how can you compare successful coaches to Rohr? That is a travesty, those coaches had earned the right not to be fired based their previous trophy winning success, of which Rohr has none. :tic: And in fact didn't meet his target at the last WC and was still retained... :biggrin:
ANC, context my brother! Context.
It embarrasses me to have to explain to you that I am not comparing Lowe and del Bosque with Rohr.

You do not see the bizareness of the situation?
Spain and Germany fail to reach WC 2nd round. They don't panic and keep their caches.
Nigeria fails to reach the second round and want to automatically sack their coach.
Weytin una chop?

The God given right Nigerians believe we have to win AFCON is no bigger than the same ''right" Germany and Spain believe they have to reach "ordinary" second round of the WC, yet na we dey vex pass for winning a bronze and the same first round WC exit.

Calm down. Make persin die first before you bury am. AFCON is just next year.
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:


Ol' boy, they didn't panic because that coach has already won things for them before. Rohr hasn't, so its a false equivalency. I thought that was obvious? Before he even qualifies and executes the next ANC he hasn't won jack so doesn't have any good will going in or a longer rope to hang himself. And he's already failed to reach his target on at least one occasion without being fired so he's even on a shorter leash. I'm good with the rest of your argument but once you bring this false equivalency it starts entering k-leg regions...

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:29 pm 
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So they demoted Yobo already?

Wey 1Naira!?!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:44 am 
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maceo4 wrote:
Damunk wrote:
maceo4 wrote:
Bros, don't let the last part kill your argument abeg, how can you compare successful coaches to Rohr? That is a travesty, those coaches had earned the right not to be fired based their previous trophy winning success, of which Rohr has none. :tic: And in fact didn't meet his target at the last WC and was still retained... :biggrin:
ANC, context my brother! Context.
It embarrasses me to have to explain to you that I am not comparing Lowe and del Bosque with Rohr.

You do not see the bizareness of the situation?
Spain and Germany fail to reach WC 2nd round. They don't panic and keep their caches.
Nigeria fails to reach the second round and want to automatically sack their coach.
Weytin una chop?

The God given right Nigerians believe we have to win AFCON is no bigger than the same ''right" Germany and Spain believe they have to reach "ordinary" second round of the WC, yet na we dey vex pass for winning a bronze and the same first round WC exit.

Calm down. Make persin die first before you bury am. AFCON is just next year.
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:


Ol' boy, they didn't panic because that coach has already won things for them before. Rohr hasn't, so its a false equivalency. I thought that was obvious? Before he even qualifies and executes the next ANC he hasn't won jack so doesn't have any good will going in or a longer rope to hang himself. And he's already failed to reach his target on at least one occasion without being fired so he's even on a shorter leash. I'm good with the rest of your argument but once you bring this false equivalency it starts entering k-leg regions...
Okay if thats really the case, how come Lowe for one didnt get the sack long before he won his fist title for Germany in 2014?
That was eight years (eight!) after he became Manager of Germany. They still didn't panic.
You don't think there's a subtle message there from arguably the most successful footballing country on the planet?

Quote:
Joachim Lowe
Hired: 2006

Euros 2008: Second place

World Cup 2010: Third place
(Dem never sack am. Its now 4 years on the job o. Still nuttin) :D

Euros 2012: 4th place
Wow. Terrible. The WOWOs must be powerful in Germany!

World Cup 2014: WINNERS!
At last! Six years on!!!!! Ope o! :thumbs:

Euros 2016: 3rd/4th place (semis)
Oh my oh my. Not good enough.
Sack the coach!


World Cup 2018: First Round exit
:ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy:
Still no sack? Hmmm.

2019 European Nations League Finals: Failed to Quaify[/size]
:atc: :atc: :atc:



The thing is maceo, even I believe by now with this record, Lowe should have been sacked. But it says a lot when a 'mature' footballing nation like Germany gives their coach time to build (eight years), even "without winning jack", to use your words. If anything, they could claim to have a greater reason to expect ultimate results considering their pedigree and history.

Of course, I expect the anti-Rohr crowd to now rush in in defence of Lowe and then turn around to accuse us Rohr supporters of being WOWOs. :taunt:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:54 am 
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Enugu II wrote:
Damunk,

Thanks for clarifying. For a moment, I had to double take and ask "This isn't Damunk that I am familiar with." You for don fall my hand, well well. :rotf:

As for Finidi. It is actually well documented. He has been applying for NT jobs in Nigeria and has said as much in interviews. I just do not understand why he has not been given an opportunity as an Assistant. He has the papers if one is to trust media reports. Now, the stuff one reads here is Bosso being appointed because he is the "moist senior" coach. Rubbish. So, seniority has become a criterion if not the CRITERIA. There are coaches in Nigeria who have consistently proven themselves, and yet.......
The Finidi case baffles everyone, though I didnt know he has publicly expressed an interest on several occasons.
Its a question Pinnick should be asked directly.
Something the whole nation would like to hear.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:48 am 
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Damunk, I think you should honorably give up the argument with maceo4. Comparing Joachim Lowe with Rohr. The most staunchest of Rohr supporters will never do such. emotions :mrgreen: :taunt:

Why don´t bring up the countries Rohr has coached and his achievement with Joachim Lowe.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:33 pm 
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fabio wrote:
Damunk, I think you should honorably give up the argument with maceo4. Comparing Joachim Lowe with Rohr. The most staunchest of Rohr supporters will never do such. emotions :mrgreen: :taunt:

Why don´t bring up the countries Rohr has coached and his achievement with Joachim Lowe.
I think you need to honourably give up being dishonest.
It has already been stated that I am nor 'comparing' Lowe to Rohr.
If that is your argument, then you have none.

I thought it was only wurunaj0 that constructed strawmen in your camp.
I was wrong. :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:00 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Damunk,

Thanks for clarifying. For a moment, I had to double take and ask "This isn't Damunk that I am familiar with." You for don fall my hand, well well. :rotf:

As for Finidi. It is actually well documented. He has been applying for NT jobs in Nigeria and has said as much in interviews. I just do not understand why he has not been given an opportunity as an Assistant. He has the papers if one is to trust media reports. Now, the stuff one reads here is Bosso being appointed because he is the "moist senior" coach. Rubbish. So, seniority has become a criterion if not the CRITERIA. There are coaches in Nigeria who have consistently proven themselves, and yet.......
The Finidi case baffles everyone, though I didnt know he has publicly expressed an interest on several occasons.
Its a question Pinnick should be asked directly.
Something the whole nation would like to hear.


Damunk here is a story on this:

Quote:
NFF to interview Finidi George, 58 others for coaching roles
August 17, 2017Tunde Eludini
https://www.premiumtimesng.com/sports/football/240606-nff-interview-finidi-george-58-others-coaching-roles.html

Former Super Eagles winger, Finidi George, has been listed among 59 people invited by the Nigeria Football Federation, NFF, for an interview to fill the positions in the national teams.
The NFF in a statement on Thursday said they were set to fill vacant positions of Head Coach, Assistant Coach, and Goalkeeper Trainer in the U17, U20 and U23 National Teams (men), the U17 and Senior National Teams (women) and the Beach Soccer National Team.
The chairman of the NFF Technical and Development Committee, Chris Green, told thenff.com that the coaches were expected at the NFF Secretariat, Abuja on Tuesday with their original credentials and other relevant certificates/documents.
The list of short–listed candidates was drawn from the pool of applicants who heeded a public notice by the NFF for applications two weeks ago.
The football governing body has advised all the coaches that they would be responsible for their movement to and from Abuja, as well as their upkeep and other personal expenses in the Federal Capital Territory.
Finidi was a key member of the 1994 Super Eagles squad that made impact in their debut appearance at the World Cup.
The former Ajax and Real Betis star is understood to have undergone top coaching certification in Europe and has handled a number of youth teams.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:10 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
I think you need to honourably give up being dishonest.
It has already been stated that I am nor 'comparing' Lowe to Rohr.
If that is your argument, then you have none.

I thought it was only wurunaj0 that constructed strawmen in your camp.
I was wrong. :lol:

Ok. You were not comparing :taunt:

You merely highlighting Lowe longevity to justify Rohr retention and using Lowe achievement to motivate Rohr.

The longer Rohr stays the more likely he would match Lowe achievement. Ok :laugh:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:22 pm 
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fabio wrote:
Damunk wrote:
I think you need to honourably give up being dishonest.
It has already been stated that I am nor 'comparing' Lowe to Rohr.
If that is your argument, then you have none.

I thought it was only wurunaj0 that constructed strawmen in your camp.
I was wrong. :lol:

Ok. You were not comparing :taunt:

You merely highlighting Lowe longevity to justify Rohr retention and using Lowe achievement to motivate Rohr.

The longer Rohr stays the more likely he would match Lowe achievement. Ok :laugh:
*Sigh*
No need.
Those that get it get it.
Those that don't, won't.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:38 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
*Sigh*
No need.
Those that get it get it. (Damunk only) :taunt:
Those that don't, won't. (Everyone else, apart from Damunk) :tic:

When you are the only getting the point you are making.

Ehm.

*Sigh*
no need :laugh:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:19 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
maceo4 wrote:
Damunk wrote:
maceo4 wrote:
Bros, don't let the last part kill your argument abeg, how can you compare successful coaches to Rohr? That is a travesty, those coaches had earned the right not to be fired based their previous trophy winning success, of which Rohr has none. :tic: And in fact didn't meet his target at the last WC and was still retained... :biggrin:
ANC, context my brother! Context.
It embarrasses me to have to explain to you that I am not comparing Lowe and del Bosque with Rohr.

You do not see the bizareness of the situation?
Spain and Germany fail to reach WC 2nd round. They don't panic and keep their caches.
Nigeria fails to reach the second round and want to automatically sack their coach.
Weytin una chop?

The God given right Nigerians believe we have to win AFCON is no bigger than the same ''right" Germany and Spain believe they have to reach "ordinary" second round of the WC, yet na we dey vex pass for winning a bronze and the same first round WC exit.

Calm down. Make persin die first before you bury am. AFCON is just next year.
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:


Ol' boy, they didn't panic because that coach has already won things for them before. Rohr hasn't, so its a false equivalency. I thought that was obvious? Before he even qualifies and executes the next ANC he hasn't won jack so doesn't have any good will going in or a longer rope to hang himself. And he's already failed to reach his target on at least one occasion without being fired so he's even on a shorter leash. I'm good with the rest of your argument but once you bring this false equivalency it starts entering k-leg regions...
Okay if thats really the case, how come Lowe for one didnt get the sack long before he won his fist title for Germany in 2014?
That was eight years (eight!) after he became Manager of Germany. They still didn't panic.
You don't think there's a subtle message there from arguably the most successful footballing country on the planet?

Quote:
Joachim Lowe
Hired: 2006

Euros 2008: Second place

World Cup 2010: Third place
(Dem never sack am. Its now 4 years on the job o. Still nuttin) :D

Euros 2012: 4th place
Wow. Terrible. The WOWOs must be powerful in Germany!

World Cup 2014: WINNERS!
At last! Six years on!!!!! Ope o! :thumbs:

Euros 2016: 3rd/4th place (semis)
Oh my oh my. Not good enough.
Sack the coach!


World Cup 2018: First Round exit
:ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy:
Still no sack? Hmmm.

2019 European Nations League Finals: Failed to Quaify[/size]
:atc: :atc: :atc:



The thing is maceo, even I believe by now with this record, Lowe should have been sacked. But it says a lot when a 'mature' footballing nation like Germany gives their coach time to build (eight years), even "without winning jack", to use your words. If anything, they could claim to have a greater reason to expect ultimate results considering their pedigree and history.

Of course, I expect the anti-Rohr crowd to now rush in in defence of Lowe and then turn around to accuse us Rohr supporters of being WOWOs. :taunt:


Bros, I'm glad your revised your argument, and I do agree if you are using Lowe's overall longevity rather than the single instance of those particular World Cup's your argument starts to straighten leg small :taunt: But I could also say he might have actually overachieved in his first few years based on what was expected, because I think he took over in a rebuild process and attempted to integrate a younger set of German players shaking up the old guard, and I don't think they expected to even take second in his first tournament. So was already building that good will and a longer rope to hang himself from the jump, hence it made sense to continue with him. This is still unlike Rohr who actually failed to reach his target in his very first tournament...so the K never fully straighten :biggrin: And I no be wowo or anti-wowo oh, I'm not on either side, I just dey fence dey point out inconsistencies as I see them :tic:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:41 pm 
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maceo4 wrote:
Damunk wrote:
maceo4 wrote:
Damunk wrote:
maceo4 wrote:
Bros, don't let the last part kill your argument abeg, how can you compare successful coaches to Rohr? That is a travesty, those coaches had earned the right not to be fired based their previous trophy winning success, of which Rohr has none. :tic: And in fact didn't meet his target at the last WC and was still retained... :biggrin:
ANC, context my brother! Context.
It embarrasses me to have to explain to you that I am not comparing Lowe and del Bosque with Rohr.

You do not see the bizareness of the situation?
Spain and Germany fail to reach WC 2nd round. They don't panic and keep their caches.
Nigeria fails to reach the second round and want to automatically sack their coach.
Weytin una chop?

The God given right Nigerians believe we have to win AFCON is no bigger than the same ''right" Germany and Spain believe they have to reach "ordinary" second round of the WC, yet na we dey vex pass for winning a bronze and the same first round WC exit.

Calm down. Make persin die first before you bury am. AFCON is just next year.
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:


Ol' boy, they didn't panic because that coach has already won things for them before. Rohr hasn't, so its a false equivalency. I thought that was obvious? Before he even qualifies and executes the next ANC he hasn't won jack so doesn't have any good will going in or a longer rope to hang himself. And he's already failed to reach his target on at least one occasion without being fired so he's even on a shorter leash. I'm good with the rest of your argument but once you bring this false equivalency it starts entering k-leg regions...
Okay if thats really the case, how come Lowe for one didnt get the sack long before he won his fist title for Germany in 2014?
That was eight years (eight!) after he became Manager of Germany. They still didn't panic.
You don't think there's a subtle message there from arguably the most successful footballing country on the planet?

Quote:
Joachim Lowe
Hired: 2006

Euros 2008: Second place

World Cup 2010: Third place
(Dem never sack am. Its now 4 years on the job o. Still nuttin) :D

Euros 2012: 4th place
Wow. Terrible. The WOWOs must be powerful in Germany!

World Cup 2014: WINNERS!
At last! Six years on!!!!! Ope o! :thumbs:

Euros 2016: 3rd/4th place (semis)
Oh my oh my. Not good enough.
Sack the coach!


World Cup 2018: First Round exit
:ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy:
Still no sack? Hmmm.

2019 European Nations League Finals: Failed to Quaify[/size]
:atc: :atc: :atc:



The thing is maceo, even I believe by now with this record, Lowe should have been sacked. But it says a lot when a 'mature' footballing nation like Germany gives their coach time to build (eight years), even "without winning jack", to use your words. If anything, they could claim to have a greater reason to expect ultimate results considering their pedigree and history.

Of course, I expect the anti-Rohr crowd to now rush in in defence of Lowe and then turn around to accuse us Rohr supporters of being WOWOs. :taunt:


Bros, I'm glad your revised your argument, and I do agree if you are using Lowe's overall longevity rather than the single instance of those particular World Cup's your argument starts to straighten leg small :taunt:
See high sense!!! :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
My guy, no argument changed. Na you dey focus on the micro detail rather than the broader point being made.

Quote:
But I could also say he might have actually overachieved in his first few years based on what was expected, because I think he took over in a rebuild process and attempted to integrate a younger set of German players shaking up the old guard, and I don't think they expected to even take second in his first tournament.
The exact same thing can be said - and has been said - of Rohr. But your countripipul would rather denigrate the man and not give the concessions you are quite righty giving to the Germans and their coach.

Quote:
So was already building that good will and a longer rope to hang himself from the jump, hence it made sense to continue with him. This is still unlike Rohr who actually failed to reach his target in his very first tournament...so the K never fully straighten :biggrin:
So it made sense not to continue with Rohr and find someone else after the WC.
Right.

Quote:
And I no be wowo or anti-wowo oh, I'm not on either side, I just dey fence dey point out inconsistencies as I see them :tic:
If you don't see glaring inconsistencies on the anti-Rohr side, then you can't claim to be neutral or fair. I doubt you see any.
But nutting spoil. :D

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:13 am 
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Damunk wrote:
maceo4 wrote:
Damunk wrote:
maceo4 wrote:
Damunk wrote:
maceo4 wrote:
Bros, don't let the last part kill your argument abeg, how can you compare successful coaches to Rohr? That is a travesty, those coaches had earned the right not to be fired based their previous trophy winning success, of which Rohr has none. :tic: And in fact didn't meet his target at the last WC and was still retained... :biggrin:
ANC, context my brother! Context.
It embarrasses me to have to explain to you that I am not comparing Lowe and del Bosque with Rohr.

You do not see the bizareness of the situation?
Spain and Germany fail to reach WC 2nd round. They don't panic and keep their caches.
Nigeria fails to reach the second round and want to automatically sack their coach.
Weytin una chop?

The God given right Nigerians believe we have to win AFCON is no bigger than the same ''right" Germany and Spain believe they have to reach "ordinary" second round of the WC, yet na we dey vex pass for winning a bronze and the same first round WC exit.

Calm down. Make persin die first before you bury am. AFCON is just next year.
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:


Ol' boy, they didn't panic because that coach has already won things for them before. Rohr hasn't, so its a false equivalency. I thought that was obvious? Before he even qualifies and executes the next ANC he hasn't won jack so doesn't have any good will going in or a longer rope to hang himself. And he's already failed to reach his target on at least one occasion without being fired so he's even on a shorter leash. I'm good with the rest of your argument but once you bring this false equivalency it starts entering k-leg regions...
Okay if thats really the case, how come Lowe for one didnt get the sack long before he won his fist title for Germany in 2014?
That was eight years (eight!) after he became Manager of Germany. They still didn't panic.
You don't think there's a subtle message there from arguably the most successful footballing country on the planet?

Quote:
Joachim Lowe
Hired: 2006

Euros 2008: Second place

World Cup 2010: Third place
(Dem never sack am. Its now 4 years on the job o. Still nuttin) :D

Euros 2012: 4th place
Wow. Terrible. The WOWOs must be powerful in Germany!

World Cup 2014: WINNERS!
At last! Six years on!!!!! Ope o! :thumbs:

Euros 2016: 3rd/4th place (semis)
Oh my oh my. Not good enough.
Sack the coach!


World Cup 2018: First Round exit
:ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy:
Still no sack? Hmmm.

2019 European Nations League Finals: Failed to Quaify[/size]
:atc: :atc: :atc:



The thing is maceo, even I believe by now with this record, Lowe should have been sacked. But it says a lot when a 'mature' footballing nation like Germany gives their coach time to build (eight years), even "without winning jack", to use your words. If anything, they could claim to have a greater reason to expect ultimate results considering their pedigree and history.

Of course, I expect the anti-Rohr crowd to now rush in in defence of Lowe and then turn around to accuse us Rohr supporters of being WOWOs. :taunt:


Bros, I'm glad your revised your argument, and I do agree if you are using Lowe's overall longevity rather than the single instance of those particular World Cup's your argument starts to straighten leg small :taunt:
See high sense!!! :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
My guy, no argument changed. Na you dey focus on the micro detail rather than the broader point being made.

Quote:
But I could also say he might have actually overachieved in his first few years based on what was expected, because I think he took over in a rebuild process and attempted to integrate a younger set of German players shaking up the old guard, and I don't think they expected to even take second in his first tournament.
The exact same thing can be said - and has been said - of Rohr. But your countripipul would rather denigrate the man and not give the concessions you are quite righty giving to the Germans and their coach.

Quote:
So was already building that good will and a longer rope to hang himself from the jump, hence it made sense to continue with him. This is still unlike Rohr who actually failed to reach his target in his very first tournament...so the K never fully straighten :biggrin:
So it made sense not to continue with Rohr and find someone else after the WC.
Right.

Quote:
And I no be wowo or anti-wowo oh, I'm not on either side, I just dey fence dey point out inconsistencies as I see them :tic:
If you don't see glaring inconsistencies on the anti-Rohr side, then you can't claim to be neutral or fair. I doubt you see any.
But nutting spoil. :D


:rotf: :rotf: I've argued for and against Rohr in the past though. I'm not so invested either way, I just don't get the argument that he can't be fired, and I'm also not onboard with he must be fired ASAP. He's done an ok job, failed in one tournament, met his target in the next. My issue has just always been is he the one to take this set of players to the next level, and I really only have his prior coaching history to go by since he's blown hot and cold with SE. If we are going by that one I would say no, but he's accepted a new contract so I'm in full support of him. But he does need to start delivering (not necessarily win or you are out) or showing that the trajectory of the team is moving upward. He doesn't have the excuses folks gave for previous coaches, and we shouldn't start inventing some for him. He is in a position where he's actually primed for success, not forced to take useless local players, young players peaking at the right moment, flood of players changing nationality to bolster the team, NFF that is putting in place scouts and assistants to help him with his work and processing players switches in a timely manner, and somewhat, kinda, slightly paying him on time-ish :laugh: etc. All things which he has lucked into (I know you like to attribute it to his great work :rotf: ), he needs to start showing he's the right person to handle this current talented set of players and get them to the next level.

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