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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:08 pm 
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While this is merely conjecture the possibility is not far fetched. Think deeply......

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Yes, Africa is currently attracting the dregs of that talent but it will not be long when the real talents among that group begin to declare for their parents' home teams . . . The challenge is how will Europe react when it is Africa, not France, at the zenith? Make no mistake about it. It won’t be pretty.


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European leaders would argue that it is (1) a way to prevent the constant travel of players to distant places and shortchanging of clubs that pay the wages of the players, (2) they would demur the absence of players from club games and argue that league-based international competition ensures that clubs and players control fixtures under FIFA’s watch, (3) that this will prevent the disruption of players' family lives, (4) that the fans will be attracted to this because of familiarity with players that represent them, and (5) additional bullshit


Details found here:

https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2020/07/the-real-danger-of-african-team-winning.html

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The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:53 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
While this is merely conjecture the possibility is not far fetched. Think deeply......

Quote:
Yes, Africa is currently attracting the dregs of that talent but it will not be long when the real talents among that group begin to declare for their parents' home teams . . . The challenge is how will Europe react when it is Africa, not France, at the zenith? Make no mistake about it. It won’t be pretty.


Quote:
European leaders would argue that it is (1) a way to prevent the constant travel of players to distant places and shortchanging of clubs that pay the wages of the players, (2) they would demur the absence of players from club games and argue that league-based international competition ensures that clubs and players control fixtures under FIFA’s watch, (3) that this will prevent the disruption of players' family lives, (4) that the fans will be attracted to this because of familiarity with players that represent them, and (5) additional bullshit


Details found here:

https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2020/07/the-real-danger-of-african-team-winning.html
Prof, this thing is closer than most people believe.

I do not believe a country has to have the best players in the world to win the world cup.
It has to have a top quality (world class) 'spine' and decent (ie quality) 'peripherals'. Maybe one world class on-pitch 'general', confident and capable of lifting the team. Like a Keshi or an Okocha who were capable of this in their different ways.

The problem the great African WC teams of the past have had is that they have had world class players in two or three positions supported by below average players in others. Nigeria is a good example. Same with Senegal, Ghana and Cote D'Ivoire.

Today, I do not believe Nigeria has the 'dregs' of Europe in our ranks as you say. That might have applied in 2014, but not today. We have raided the youth ranks of Nigeria-eligible players born in Europe. We have won some and lost some, but many of these kids are some of the best in their age bracket. Its about the future and how they turn out. The days of 'daddy' Sola Ameobi and 'uncle' Danny Shittu are long gone. :D
Moreover we have the local talent but we just need a way of nurturing them to at least 'international class' without compromising the national team's quality.

After that comes the self-belief which is part innate, part experience coming from playing regularly with the world's best. Nigerians for the most part do not lack self-belief, even if many a time it can be misplaced or unfounded. :lol:

Next is the coach. No matter the quality and confidence of the players, there has to be a certain tactical nous
brought to bear by the coach, but augmented by the more experienced players and the intelligence of the younger, less experienced players.

You don't need a 'world class' coach to conquer the world. I don't consider England's Southgate to be that brilliant, but he is decent and knows his players. He got his team to within a whisker of the World Cup final in 2018. Yet I don't see the world's top teams scrambling for his signature when his contract runs out in '22.

Finally, there are the natural attributes of the players that need to be optimised. No doubt, we have physical strength and speed on our side. Not uniquely so (Vardy or Sterling will give Osimhen or Chukwueze a run for their money any day), but on average we are not wanting in that department and should use it to our advantage whenever possible.

Many of us have no apologies to make to anyone for scouring the planet for Nigerian players.
The closer Nigeria comes to achieving our dream of winning the world cup, the more players of Nigerian heritage will come knocking.

We can win it and will win it sooner rather than later.
E go do dem like film trick.

Up Super Eagles. :thumbs:

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:22 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
While this is merely conjecture the possibility is not far fetched. Think deeply......

Quote:
Yes, Africa is currently attracting the dregs of that talent but it will not be long when the real talents among that group begin to declare for their parents' home teams . . . The challenge is how will Europe react when it is Africa, not France, at the zenith? Make no mistake about it. It won’t be pretty.


Quote:
European leaders would argue that it is (1) a way to prevent the constant travel of players to distant places and shortchanging of clubs that pay the wages of the players, (2) they would demur the absence of players from club games and argue that league-based international competition ensures that clubs and players control fixtures under FIFA’s watch, (3) that this will prevent the disruption of players' family lives, (4) that the fans will be attracted to this because of familiarity with players that represent them, and (5) additional bullshit


Details found here:

https://eaglecity.blogspot.com/2020/07/the-real-danger-of-african-team-winning.html
Prof, this thing is closer than most people believe.

I do not believe a country has to have the best players in the world to win the world cup.
It has to have a top quality (world class) 'spine' and decent (ie quality) 'peripherals'. Maybe one world class on-pitch 'general', confident and capable of lifting the team. Like a Keshi or an Okocha who were capable of this in their different ways.

The problem the great African WC teams of the past have had is that they have had world class players in two or three positions supported by below average players in others. Nigeria is a good example. Same with Senegal, Ghana and Cote D'Ivoire.

Today, I do not believe Nigeria has the 'dregs' of Europe in our ranks as you say. That might have applied in 2014, but not today. We have raided the youth ranks of Nigeria-eligible players born in Europe. We have won some and lost some, but many of these kids are some of the best in their age bracket. Its about the future and how they turn out. The days of 'daddy' Sola Ameobi and 'uncle' Danny Shittu are long gone. :D
Moreover we have the local talent but we just need a way of nurturing them to at least 'international class' without compromising the national team's quality.

After that comes the self-belief which is part innate, part experience coming from playing regularly with the world's best. Nigerians for the most part do not lack self-belief, even if many a time it can be misplaced or unfounded. :lol:

Next is the coach. No matter the quality and confidence of the players, there has to be a certain tactical nous
brought to bear by the coach, but augmented by the more experienced players and the intelligence of the younger, less experienced players.

You don't need a 'world class' coach to conquer the world. I don't consider England's Southgate to be that brilliant, but he is decent and knows his players. He got his team to within a whisker of the World Cup final in 2018. Yet I don't see the world's top teams scrambling for his signature when his contract runs out in '22.

Finally, there are the natural attributes of the players that need to be optimised. No doubt, we have physical strength and speed on our side. Not uniquely so (Vardy or Sterling will give Osimhen or Chukwueze a run for their money any day), but on average we are not wanting in that department and should use it to our advantage whenever possible.

Many of us have no apologies to make to anyone for scouring the planet for Nigerian players.
The closer Nigeria comes to achieving our dream of winning the world cup, the more players of Nigerian heritage will come knocking.

We can win it and will win it sooner rather than later.
E go do dem like film trick.

Up Super Eagles. :thumbs:


:biggrin:
You failed to include nocturnal penile tumescence.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:06 pm 
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It would take a truck load of luck for Nigeria or any African country to win it.
Organization and money required is lacking.
US will win it before any county in Africa.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:59 am 
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No wonder we hardly have any new invention by black folks or the black continent. Too negative. They don't believe they're adequate. Inferior thinking.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:10 am 
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ANC wrote:
It would take a truck load of luck for Nigeria or any African country to win it.
Organization and money required is lacking.
US will win it before any county in Africa.
Well they'd better hurry up.
Organised football in the US predates Nigerian football by over 30 years and the USSF is older than every single national football association in Africa. :idea:

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:59 am 
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Chances are that an African team will win it sooner than later. Africa has a massive youth advantage with 30% of kids born in Africa. The interest is there in the youth population by the fanaticism over EPL. An African team winning the World Cup will be no different than when Brazil won it. It is not a European country nor does it have the TV revenues of Europe but kids embraced the green, blue and gold.

Had Nigeria won the World Cup in 1994 as they had all the opportunity to do so,best believe the Super Eagles would have gone from an "African" team to a World team. Kids worldwide wouold have bought their jerseys, taken their names as nicknames and put their posters in their rooms. Sports is a global game.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:34 pm 
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kali wrote:
Chances are that an African team will win it sooner than later. Africa has a massive youth advantage with 30% of kids born in Africa. The interest is there in the youth population by the fanaticism over EPL. An African team winning the World Cup will be no different than when Brazil won it. It is not a European country nor does it have the TV revenues of Europe but kids embraced the green, blue and gold.

Had Nigeria won the World Cup in 1994 as they had all the opportunity to do so,best believe the Super Eagles would have gone from an "African" team to a World team. Kids worldwide wouold have bought their jerseys, taken their names as nicknames and put their posters in their rooms. Sports is a global game.
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Interesting view and this very site was born from the worldwide interest of which you speak, by a Scandinavian kid.
Even today, we all run into non-Nigerians from all over the world that reminisce on some of our great names of generations past.
One of my most memorable experiences of France '98 was running into Dutch and Spanish fans at a match venue and we bonded strictly as football fans over names like Finidi, Kanu, Okocha and Yekini.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:57 pm 
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kali wrote:
Chances are that an African team will win it sooner than later. Africa has a massive youth advantage with 30% of kids born in Africa. The interest is there in the youth population by the fanaticism over EPL. An African team winning the World Cup will be no different than when Brazil won it. It is not a European country nor does it have the TV revenues of Europe but kids embraced the green, blue and gold.

Had Nigeria won the World Cup in 1994 as they had all the opportunity to do so,best believe the Super Eagles would have gone from an "African" team to a World team. Kids worldwide wouold have bought their jerseys, taken their names as nicknames and put their posters in their rooms. Sports is a global game.



Kali,

The point, however, is will the best of them win it playing in the colors of an African team or in the colors of the country where they will play pro ball? That is actually the point of the piece.

It is instructive to estimate the racial background of teams winning the World Cup. Increasingly, that mix is not only trending Black but names point to a modern-state African origin. The stats are not clear yet but the guess of the piece is that such a tendency is increasingly likely.

The piece then argues that if indeed this tendency is accurate, that the commercial powers based in Europe will not sit idly and watch that happen. They will, instead, react by creating another global and nation-based competition which will assure that they will be the ones winning the global trophies and earning the economic trappings associated with it. That is the point of the piece. This is not about TODAY but about TOMORROW.

_________________
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:16 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
The piece then argues that if indeed this tendency is accurate, that the commercial powers based in Europe will not sit idly and watch that happen. They will, instead, react by creating another global and nation-based competition which will assure that they will be the ones winning the global trophies and earning the economic trappings associated with it. That is the point of the piece. This is not about TODAY but about TOMORROW.
Prof, if this, as you say, is the main thrust of your article, I have to disagree.

It is based on the presumption that the FIFA powers that be today are overwhelmingly Eurocentric. It also presumes that more tragically, they are unapologetically racist with no desire to let go of the reins of power and no hope of the rest of the world wresting power from them.

I think it is an interesting theory but in reality nothing but a conspiracy theory based on the above premise. The world has changed and the power dynamic is ever-changing, albeit not without a fight.

In the last 6 months alone the world has started to reexamine itself wrt race. It has suddenly discovered that racism does exist (which we as black people have always known) but it is also now evident that there is a very large proportion of white society that naively thought (or conveniently convinced themselves) that racism had for the most part been defeated. This section of white society is populated by people who have been both beneficiaries ('white privilege') as well as unconscious enablers (the 'silence is violence' enablers) of racism.

Now that the scales are slowly dropping from their eyes, it will be increasingly difficult and even perilous to deliberately halt the progress of black people - and in this case African soccer - if and when we get our act together. It is a seismic generational shift in attitudes.

The same racist agenda would have been playing out for decades when the first black players started populating the national teams of Europe and even the top club sides. The overt racists would have done whatever they could to halt the influx of blacks representing European national teams (or even black African nations' participation at the WC), but the love of the game both in intensity and in numbers rightly superseded any instinctive racist attitudes and policies at play.

In the last 50 years for instance, we have seen an increase in African participation at the WC from one in 1970 (6.25% representation) to two in 1982 (8.33% representation) to five spots today (15.63% representation) - and nine spots planned for 2026 (18.75% representation).

If they couldn't stop the march of progress back then, it can't happen now.
Just my view.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:52 am 
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Damunk wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
The piece then argues that if indeed this tendency is accurate, that the commercial powers based in Europe will not sit idly and watch that happen. They will, instead, react by creating another global and nation-based competition which will assure that they will be the ones winning the global trophies and earning the economic trappings associated with it. That is the point of the piece. This is not about TODAY but about TOMORROW.
Prof, if this, as you say, is the main thrust of your article, I have to disagree.

It is based on the presumption that the FIFA powers that be today are overwhelmingly Eurocentric. It also presumes that more tragically, they are unapologetically racist with no desire to let go of the reins of power and no hope of the rest of the world wresting power from them.

I think it is an interesting theory but in reality nothing but a conspiracy theory based on the above premise. The world has changed and the power dynamic is ever-changing, albeit not without a fight.

In the last 6 months alone the world has started to reexamine itself wrt race. It has suddenly discovered that racism does exist (which we as black people have always known) but it is also now evident that there is a very large proportion of white society that naively thought (or conveniently convinced themselves) that racism had for the most part been defeated. This section of white society is populated by people who have been both beneficiaries ('white privilege') as well as unconscious enablers (the 'silence is violence' enablers) of racism.

Now that the scales are slowly dropping from their eyes, it will be increasingly difficult and even perilous to deliberately halt the progress of black people - and in this case African soccer - if and when we get our act together. It is a seismic generational shift in attitudes.

The same racist agenda would have been playing out for decades when the first black players started populating the national teams of Europe and even the top club sides. The overt racists would have done whatever they could to halt the influx of blacks representing European national teams (or even black African nations' participation at the WC), but the love of the game both in intensity and in numbers rightly superseded any instinctive racist attitudes and policies at play.

In the last 50 years for instance, we have seen an increase in African participation at the WC from one in 1970 (6.25% representation) to two in 1982 (8.33% representation) to five spots today (15.63% representation) - and nine spots planned for 2026 (18.75% representation).

If they couldn't stop the march of progress back then, it can't happen now.
Just my view.


Damunk,

Good points but only as far they concern a type of 'racism' -- individual. However, the point here is a far more subtle type of 'racism -- institutional racism' for want of a better term. TBH, I would not really call this a racist move. I prefer a better term. In any case, it is much harder to detect because it is not as overt. Let me give an example, after South Africa gained independence, the White population and business class decided they did not want Blacks as members of their social/country club. Guess what they did? They did not expressly state no to blacks nor did they overtly prevent them from entry into the club. Instead, they raised the membership fees knowing that very few Blacks could afford it. The result, it effectively barred Black membership.

The point here is that when this predicted World Cup is going to be instituted it will not be expressed as preventing Africans from winning or anything like that. True to the believe, many will not even recognize the effect at such a time. The rules will clandestinely assure that Africans cannot win. That is what I predict will happen. The effect will be similar. BTW, it is really difficult to even equate this as racial in the sense of the word, instead a better term would be Neo-national supremacist move.

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The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:14 am 
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Damunk wrote:
ANC wrote:
It would take a truck load of luck for Nigeria or any African country to win it.
Organization and money required is lacking.
US will win it before any county in Africa.
Well they'd better hurry up.
Organised football in the US predates Nigerian football by over 30 years and the USSF is older than every single national football association in Africa. :idea:


Yeah but their professional league only started 25 years ago. With that said if the USMNT was to compete in the AFCON they would make the semis regularly.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:19 am 
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kalani JR wrote:
Damunk wrote:
ANC wrote:
It would take a truck load of luck for Nigeria or any African country to win it.
Organization and money required is lacking.
US will win it before any county in Africa.
Well they'd better hurry up.
Organised football in the US predates Nigerian football by over 30 years and the USSF is older than every single national football association in Africa. :idea:


Yeah but their professional league only started 25 years ago. With that said if the USMNT was to compete in the AFCON they would make the semis regularly.
True, but ours started.....actually I don't really know when professional football started in Nigeria.
Has it even started? :P

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:07 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
kalani JR wrote:
Damunk wrote:
ANC wrote:
It would take a truck load of luck for Nigeria or any African country to win it.
Organization and money required is lacking.
US will win it before any county in Africa.
Well they'd better hurry up.
Organised football in the US predates Nigerian football by over 30 years and the USSF is older than every single national football association in Africa. :idea:


Yeah but their professional league only started 25 years ago. With that said if the USMNT was to compete in the AFCON they would make the semis regularly.
True, but ours started.....actually I don't really know when professional football started in Nigeria.
Has it even started? :P


Damunk & Kalani,

Kalani's point that America's professional league started 25 years ago is not accurate. Are we to ignore the fact that NASL was a professional league or that even before the NASL, there was a FIFA-sanctioned soccer league back in 1967! In fact, football may have begun in the USA in the 1600s far long before any thing close to it came into Africa.

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The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:22 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
Damunk wrote:
kalani JR wrote:
Damunk wrote:
ANC wrote:
It would take a truck load of luck for Nigeria or any African country to win it.
Organization and money required is lacking.
US will win it before any county in Africa.
Well they'd better hurry up.
Organised football in the US predates Nigerian football by over 30 years and the USSF is older than every single national football association in Africa. :idea:


Yeah but their professional league only started 25 years ago. With that said if the USMNT was to compete in the AFCON they would make the semis regularly.
True, but ours started.....actually I don't really know when professional football started in Nigeria.
Has it even started? :P


Damunk & Kalani,

Kalani's point that America's professional league started 25 years ago is not accurate. Are we to ignore the fact that NASL was a professional league or that even before the NASL, there was a FIFA-sanctioned soccer league back in 1967! In fact, football may have begun in the USA in the 1600s far long before any thing close to it came into Africa.


I said their professional league started 25 years ago, I didn't say professional soccer started 25 years ago.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:16 pm 
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kalani JR wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Damunk wrote:
kalani JR wrote:
Damunk wrote:
ANC wrote:
It would take a truck load of luck for Nigeria or any African country to win it.
Organization and money required is lacking.
US will win it before any county in Africa.
Well they'd better hurry up.
Organised football in the US predates Nigerian football by over 30 years and the USSF is older than every single national football association in Africa. :idea:


Yeah but their professional league only started 25 years ago. With that said if the USMNT was to compete in the AFCON they would make the semis regularly.
True, but ours started.....actually I don't really know when professional football started in Nigeria.
Has it even started? :P


Damunk & Kalani,

Kalani's point that America's professional league started 25 years ago is not accurate. Are we to ignore the fact that NASL was a professional league or that even before the NASL, there was a FIFA-sanctioned soccer league back in 1967! In fact, football may have begun in the USA in the 1600s far long before any thing close to it came into Africa.


I said their professional league started 25 years ago, I didn't say professional soccer started 25 years ago.


Kalani Jr,

NASL was a professional league. It was not an amateur league. You can ONLY be CORRECT IF YOUR STATEMENT included the fact that the CURRENT professional soccer league in the USA started 25 years ago. Otherwise, the statement is incorrect because professional soccer in the USA goes back to the late 1960s. There is a difference. If not, you may also tell us that Pele played amateur soccer for New York Cosmos!

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The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics


Last edited by Enugu II on Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:48 am 
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ANC wrote:
It would take a truck load of luck for Nigeria or any African country to win it.
Organization and money required is lacking.
US will win it before any county in Africa.

The USA have qualified to be 10 World Cups and featured in the very first tournament in 1930 and the Olympic football event before that, they played their first international game in 1885 so they’ve had ample time to win a World Cup but as you know they haven’t but if they do I’m sure they deserve it.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:57 pm 
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Eaglezbeak wrote:
ANC wrote:
It would take a truck load of luck for Nigeria or any African country to win it.
Organization and money required is lacking.
US will win it before any county in Africa.

The USA have qualified to be 10 World Cups and featured in the very first tournament in 1930 and the Olympic football event before that, they played their first international game in 1885 so they’ve had ample time to win a World Cup but as you know they haven’t but if they do I’m sure they deserve it.


Again, professional football has been very start-stop in the country, until people like Chuck Blazer came in an set up the present infrastructure.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:12 pm 
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kalani JR wrote:
Eaglezbeak wrote:
ANC wrote:
It would take a truck load of luck for Nigeria or any African country to win it.
Organization and money required is lacking.
US will win it before any county in Africa.

The USA have qualified to be 10 World Cups and featured in the very first tournament in 1930 and the Olympic football event before that, they played their first international game in 1885 so they’ve had ample time to win a World Cup but as you know they haven’t but if they do I’m sure they deserve it.


Again, professional football has been very start-stop in the country, until people like Chuck Blazer came in an set up the present infrastructure.

Ok that is a fact but US had a head start on international football playing Canada in 1885 whilst most African team weren’t even FIFA members until the early 60s,most African nations even with professional leagues have never had a league structure as good as the US but the best they achieved in the modern era is a quarter final place but so have a few African nations so what measurement of probability are you using?

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