Ranking the NEXT SE Coach

[olu]

Did you forget that Keshi's team failed to qualify for the ANC following the one they won?

Seems the only 'winning' that counts is the AFCON gold.
So when Prof says`'start winning" he is effectively saying he should win AFCON.
Nothing wrong in that but considering there has only been one opportunity to win it so far, it sounds strange to hear "start winning" as if he has lost many opportunities to win AFCON.

As for winning ratios, I posted his record vs Keshi's a few months ago. People were not interested.
He had already notched up more wins than Keshi with fewer games.
And Keshi had been our best coach in terms of "winning".



DATA SOURCE:
https://www.transfermarkt.com/stephen-k ... 550/plus/1?
saison_id=&verein_id=3444&liga=&wettbewerb_id=&trainer_id=

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/gernot- ... 824/plus/1?
saison_id=&verein_id=3444&liga=&wettbewerb_id=&trainer_id=

What do you prefer?



or


Our good scout on the left.

[Ugbowo]

Prof has really lost me with this Rohr agenda.

Very disappointing to see.

[vancity eagle]

Did you forget that Keshi's team failed to qualify for the ANC following the one they won?

Seems the only 'winning' that counts is the AFCON gold.
So when Prof says`'start winning" he is effectively saying he should win AFCON.
Nothing wrong in that but considering there has only been one opportunity to win it so far, it sounds strange to hear "start winning" as if he has lost many opportunities to win AFCON.

As for winning ratios, I posted his record vs Keshi's a few months ago. People were not interested.
He had already notched up more wins than Keshi with fewer games.
And Keshi had been our best coach in terms of "winning".



DATA SOURCE:
https://www.transfermarkt.com/stephen-k ... 550/plus/1?
saison_id=&verein_id=3444&liga=&wettbewerb_id=&trainer_id=

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/gernot- ... 824/plus/1?
saison_id=&verein_id=3444&liga=&wettbewerb_id=&trainer_id=

What do you prefer?



or


Our good scout on the left.

No mind them.

You win the competition yet cannot even qualify from a yeye group to defend your title.

I always said Keshis success was not built on a strong foundation and in the end he would fail and we would pay the price.

In the end I was right and we missed 2 straight AFCONS.

The biggest disgrace in SE history.

[Dammy]

Prof has really lost me with this Rohr agenda.

Very disappointing to see.

Seriously, especially coming from someone who's opinion I highly respect.

[vancity eagle]

[quote="vancity


Spell what out? Abi was it in a dream where Iceland got a result against the same Messi? See you have already lost with this your Rohr mentality before even stepping on the pitch, wasn’t Messi there vs Croatia, Iceland, France, why was it that Rohrs team was the only one they were able to beat? LOL

[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

You are comparing apples to oranges.

Iceland played Argenyina on the first match, where the Argies lives were not on the line, as they were against us. A wounded lion fighting for survival.

So no credit to Rohr for destroying the team that tied Argentina ?

Then you say Croatia and France beat Argentina, but did those 2 teams not finish #1 and #2 overall ?

I think that is a pretty important fact u just choose to ignore because it suits your transparent and shallow agenda. You act as if every Tom, d#$%, and Harry had their way with Argentina but us. Just false.

Argentina, like us were victims of a tough draw. PERIOD.

[maceo4]

[quote="vancity


Spell what out? Abi was it in a dream where Iceland got a result against the same Messi? See you have already lost with this your Rohr mentality before even stepping on the pitch, wasn’t Messi there vs Croatia, Iceland, France, why was it that Rohrs team was the only one they were able to beat? LOL

[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

You are comparing apples to oranges.

Iceland played Argenyina on the first match, where the Argies lives were not on the line, as they were against us. A wounded lion fighting for survival.

So no credit to Rohr for destroying the team that tied Argentina ?

Then you say Croatia and France beat Argentina, but did those 2 teams not finish #1 and #2 overall ?

I think that is a pretty important fact u just choose to ignore because it suits your transparent and shallow agenda. You act as if every Tom, d#$%, and Harry had their way with Argentina but us. Just false.

Argentina, like us were victims of a tough draw. PERIOD.[/quote]

Yes sounds like you are on your PERIOD Iceland was able to get the result we needed, but you are here waxing about Messi this Messi that, same Argentina team that barely barely qualified for the WC, same one sacking coaches left and right, same one that needed a miracle to make it to the WC. Yet you refuse to acknowledge that they were in fact a poor team, Messi or not, they were a poor team that did not deserve to make it out of the group. But the sort of defeatist mentality that you on your PERIOD and Rohr share is what doomed our team. There is no way Keshi loses that game the way they did, he would have gingered up the boys to believe they can do it, rather than talking up the opponent and trying to tone down expectations when other teams have shown us the blue-print to get a result against their one man team with a leaky defense. I'm sorry, even on your PERIOD you are not gonna convince anybody that we deserved to lose that game, there was one reason why we did and it was Rohr....PERIODT

[niyi]

Do we have stats for games won in competitive encounters for Rohr vs Keshi?

[vancity eagle]

[quote="vancity


Spell what out? Abi was it in a dream where Iceland got a result against the same Messi? See you have already lost with this your Rohr mentality before even stepping on the pitch, wasn’t Messi there vs Croatia, Iceland, France, why was it that Rohrs team was the only one they were able to beat? LOL

[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

You are comparing apples to oranges.

Iceland played Argenyina on the first match, where the Argies lives were not on the line, as they were against us. A wounded lion fighting for survival.

So no credit to Rohr for destroying the team that tied Argentina ?

Then you say Croatia and France beat Argentina, but did those 2 teams not finish #1 and #2 overall ?

I think that is a pretty important fact u just choose to ignore because it suits your transparent and shallow agenda. You act as if every Tom, d#$%, and Harry had their way with Argentina but us. Just false.

Argentina, like us were victims of a tough draw. PERIOD.[/quote]

Yes sounds like you are on your PERIOD Iceland was able to get the result we needed, but you are here waxing about Messi this Messi that, same Argentina team that barely barely qualified for the WC, same one sacking coaches left and right, same one that needed a miracle to make it to the WC. Yet you refuse to acknowledge that they were in fact a poor team, Messi or not, they were a poor team that did not deserve to make it out of the group. But the sort of defeatist mentality that you on your PERIOD and Rohr share is what doomed our team. There is no way Keshi loses that game the way they did, he would have gingered up the boys to believe they can do it, rather than talking up the opponent and trying to tone down expectations when other teams have shown us the blue-print to get a result against their one man team with a leaky defense. I'm sorry, even on your PERIOD you are not gonna convince anybody that we deserved to lose that game, there was one reason why we did and it was Rohr....PERIODT [/quote]

There are many reasons we lost that game, if you want to simplify it to ONE reason, look no further than Ighalo missing a sitter. I take it Rohr was responsible.

You can go on diatribe after diatribe, that Argentina team showed France more pepper than any team they faced in the entire tournament and you want to live in some fantasy land that they were this piss poor team that were just going to lay down for us to beat.

Again ask Ighalo why he missed a clear sitter when he had all the time in the world to control the ball and easily finish. Na Rohrs fault be that.

The one with the PERIOD is you and all the fools who are agitated while the rest of us enjoy the best SE we have seen in decades. Choke on the hate, we will enjoy SE take on the likes of Brazil and get a draw.

[Sunset]

In my view, Gernot Rohr who will finish as the longest serving Nigerian coach must start wining or he is in his last years as the NT Coach. That much is or should be clear. We have never had a coach with such futility given the time in the saddle. For him to stay on, the only way out is winning. No longer is it enough to claim that he is coaching young players and the team is for the future. It is likely win or leave for Rohr.

Given the above scenario and its near certainty, it is time to think about who may well be the replacements. I believe that the era of claiming that Nigerians are perpetually understudying European coaches should be over. The stats bear no support that such understudied coaches had been better than the local coaches, in spite of the huge wages devoted to the former. Moreover, there are a number of Nigerian coaches that are just as good or have the potential to be just as good.

I rank them below. You may argue about the ranking. I do not claim that the ranking here is perfect but it gives an idea what I think of them. I have ranked the likes of Oliseh, Eguavoen, and Salisu a bit lower than should be expected. The rank is not strictly based on their abilities but also a reflection of a troubled past. Here is the preliminary raking:

1. Emmanuel Amuneke -- In my view, he is the next Nigerian national team coach. He is simply bidding his time. The play of his Tanzanian team at the last AFCON and his U-17 WC win plus the performance of graduates of that team point to a glowing future for this guy.

2. Abdu Makaiba -- This is the magician coach in the NPFL. Wherever he goes not only does the team change in winnings but their play improves remarkably. With a college degree, he is quite different from the average local Nigerian coach and he also has the coaching papers and wins to prove it.

3. Ndubuisi Egbo -- Quite new but came into consciousness with his recent victory leading Tirana to Albanian league championship may be a harbinger to the future. Although it is still early days, given Nigerians' penchant for all things European, surely Egbo is getting some rave views.

4. Sunday Oliseh -- In my view, this guy should be a bit above the ladder but his personality puts him here. Really an abrasive character going by his reported encounters both as a player and a coach, whether with Nigeria or overseas. However, it is clear that he is technically astute.

5. Finidi George -- I may have ranked him higher than he deserves. This rank is simply a leap of faith. He is one of the legendary national team players and he has the coaching papers but not much else.

6. Gbenga Ogungbote -- Results-wise, Gbenga has been great. He has produced wherever he has been at the local level. However, his teams' style of play is not universally admired when compared to say Abdul Maikaba's style.

7. Fidelis Ilechukwu -- Fidelis is one of the young local coaches. He did wonders with MFM in the NPFL and he has done quite well with Heartland in spite of meagre resources. He is possibly best used as a top assistant.

8. Kennedy Boboye -- One may argue that he should rank a bit higher but the reality is while he has been consistent, his teams have not been universally admired in terms of how they play.

9. Augustine Eguavoen -- Eguavoen is an itinerant-type of coach. His inability to stay long on the job has been seen as a negative. However, he has achieved success especially during his time with the national team but has not stayed long anywhere at the club level and, thus, the jury remains out on him.

10. Imama Amakapabo -- Imama had a magnificent year taking Enugu Rangers to a national title a few years ago and deserved an invitation to assist at the national level. Then the youth national teams happened. It was a disaster and his reputation took a major knock.

11.Salisu Yusuf -- Salisu should rank much higher but the bribery scandal, a few years ago, cannot and should not be ignored. Performance-wise, Salisu has been top notch wherever he had been both at the club levels in Nigeria and coaching the home-based national team. But can the bribery scandal really be ignored?

Agree with Amunike and Egbo who are clear of the rest in terms of their achievements.
For someone who's last two coaching stints ended controversially I'm surprised you ranked Oliseh so highly, he'll have to do a lot more to improve his image and temperament that are his biggest issues.

I'm also surprised with Salisu Yusuf's position who amongst local coaches I'd only rank Maikaba ahead of, being a finalist in both CHAN and the WAFU cup consecutively is not an easy feat especially if you compare it to how Imama and Olisheh's sides fared.

Theres also Michael Nsien coaching USL side FC Tulsa.

[maceo4]

[quote="vancity


Spell what out? Abi was it in a dream where Iceland got a result against the same Messi? See you have already lost with this your Rohr mentality before even stepping on the pitch, wasn’t Messi there vs Croatia, Iceland, France, why was it that Rohrs team was the only one they were able to beat? LOL

[/quote][/quote][/quote]

You are comparing apples to oranges.

Iceland played Argenyina on the first match, where the Argies lives were not on the line, as they were against us. A wounded lion fighting for survival.

So no credit to Rohr for destroying the team that tied Argentina ?

Then you say Croatia and France beat Argentina, but did those 2 teams not finish #1 and #2 overall ?

I think that is a pretty important fact u just choose to ignore because it suits your transparent and shallow agenda. You act as if every Tom, d#$%, and Harry had their way with Argentina but us. Just false.

Argentina, like us were victims of a tough draw. PERIOD.[/quote]

Yes sounds like you are on your PERIOD Iceland was able to get the result we needed, but you are here waxing about Messi this Messi that, same Argentina team that barely barely qualified for the WC, same one sacking coaches left and right, same one that needed a miracle to make it to the WC. Yet you refuse to acknowledge that they were in fact a poor team, Messi or not, they were a poor team that did not deserve to make it out of the group. But the sort of defeatist mentality that you on your PERIOD and Rohr share is what doomed our team. There is no way Keshi loses that game the way they did, he would have gingered up the boys to believe they can do it, rather than talking up the opponent and trying to tone down expectations when other teams have shown us the blue-print to get a result against their one man team with a leaky defense. I'm sorry, even on your PERIOD you are not gonna convince anybody that we deserved to lose that game, there was one reason why we did and it was Rohr....PERIODT [/quote]

There are many reasons we lost that game, if you want to simplify it to ONE reason, look no further than Ighalo missing a sitter. I take it Rohr was responsible.

You can go on diatribe after diatribe, that Argentina team showed France more pepper than any team they faced in the entire tournament and you want to live in some fantasy land that they were this piss poor team that were just going to lay down for us to beat.

Again ask Ighalo why he missed a clear sitter when he had all the time in the world to control the ball and easily finish. Na Rohrs fault be that.

The one with the PERIOD is you and all the fools who are agitated while the rest of us enjoy the best SE we have seen in decades. Choke on the hate, we will enjoy SE take on the likes of Brazil and get a draw.[/quote]

Funny how you never laid the blame on players making mistakes when Keshi was at the helm, it was Keshi who shouldered the blame, but now that you like the coach, you are able to see individual mistakes by those that the coach selected to play, suddenly the coach is no longer at fault for a poor strategy of sitting back trying to soak up waves of Argentines attacking pressure when they had a weak defense and keeper that previous teams had exploited by pressuring them. But no blame for his defeatist strategy usually employed by teams who don’t believe they stand a chance. But it was one chance that a player missed that you see. And all this your misyarnings and Monday morning quarterbacking, don’t make me go and bump your pre World Cup posts where you were expecting much better than we did, but once your boy failed you change mouth and start talking about how it was a fact that we stood no chance...you sef

[Dammy]

Our problem as a people is that we're not used to building anything, we want instant success and are always impatient.
Stephen Keshi of Blessed memory won AFCON but the team failed to qualify for the next 2 AFCONs, which was a sign that the team was not built on any solid foundations. IMO, part of the problem was the constant chopping and changing in the squad.
Now we have a man at the helm, who has brought stability to the SE and is gradually building a strong team with solid foundations. He may or may not win anything with the SE but he has laid a foundation for long lasting success.
Prof, his critic, acknowledged that he doesn't change his team anyhow. A new player has to be better than the incumbent to take his place. We can all see the team getting stronger and stronger and this is because a team is being built.
I would rather prefer the Rohr approach to team building than a flash in the pan success that is unsustainable. Rohr's work involved changing the mentality of our players to challenge themselves in the top European leagues rather than play within their comfort zones. Today, we have the highest number of Nigerian players plying their trade in the top leagues and it's rising.
Players know what they need to do to get into the SE and it's made the team more competitive. Simy Nwankwo in an interview this week, said that he believed that he lost his place in the SE due to playing in Serie B and is hoping to use his return to Serie A to win his place back in the SE. That's the spirit Rohr has injected into the SE.
Under Rohr, the SE have qualified for tournaments with ease and I believe that the team he built on solid foundations would eventually become tournament winners.

[Damunk]

Our problem as a people is that we're not used to building anything, we want instant success and are always impatient.
Stephen Keshi of Blessed memory won AFCON but the team failed to qualify for the next 2 AFCONs, which was a sign that the team was not built on any solid foundations. IMO, part of the problem was the constant chopping and changing in the squad.
Now we have a man at the helm, who has brought stability to the SE and is gradually building a strong team with solid foundations. He may or may not win anything with the SE but he has laid a foundation for long lasting success.
Prof, his critic, acknowledged that he doesn't change his team anyhow. A new player has to be better than the incumbent to take his place. We can all see the team getting stronger and stronger and this is because a team is being built.
I would rather prefer the Rohr approach to team building than a flash in the pan success that is unsustainable. Rohr's work involved changing the mentality of our players to challenge themselves in the top European leagues rather than play within their comfort zones. Today, we have the highest number of Nigerian players plying their trade in the top leagues and it's rising.
Players know what they need to do to get into the SE and it's made the team more competitive. Simy Nwankwo in an interview this week, said that he believed that he lost his place in the SE due to playing in Serie B and is hoping to use his return to Serie A to win his place back in the SE. That's the spirit Rohr has injected into the SE.
Under Rohr, the SE have qualified for tournaments with ease and I believe that the team he built on solid foundations would eventually become tournament winners.

Everything you say means absolutely nothing to a particularly blinkered set of Rohr critics, but keep saying it.
Some may yet drop their personal angst, see the light and make the SE their clear priority.

[aruako1]

Our problem as a people is that we're not used to building anything, we want instant success and are always impatient.
Stephen Keshi of Blessed memory won AFCON but the team failed to qualify for the next 2 AFCONs, which was a sign that the team was not built on any solid foundations. IMO, part of the problem was the constant chopping and changing in the squad.
Now we have a man at the helm, who has brought stability to the SE and is gradually building a strong team with solid foundations. He may or may not win anything with the SE but he has laid a foundation for long lasting success.
Prof, his critic, acknowledged that he doesn't change his team anyhow. A new player has to be better than the incumbent to take his place. We can all see the team getting stronger and stronger and this is because a team is being built.
I would rather prefer the Rohr approach to team building than a flash in the pan success that is unsustainable. Rohr's work involved changing the mentality of our players to challenge themselves in the top European leagues rather than play within their comfort zones. Today, we have the highest number of Nigerian players plying their trade in the top leagues and it's rising.
Players know what they need to do to get into the SE and it's made the team more competitive. Simy Nwankwo in an interview this week, said that he believed that he lost his place in the SE due to playing in Serie B and is hoping to use his return to Serie A to win his place back in the SE. That's the spirit Rohr has injected into the SE.
Under Rohr, the SE have qualified for tournaments with ease and I believe that the team he built on solid foundations would eventually become tournament winners.

Your first sentence is true but has nothing to do with the initial premise of this thread. Prof is a Rohr critic but did not ask for him to be sacked now. He said that Rohr's position may be under threat if we doesn’t win the AFCON and/or reach the last 16 of the WC at his second attempt. While you may belive differently about Rohr's capability and want him to stay on, it does not mean that any critic calling for Rohr to leave does not believe in long-term planning. Talking about a possible successor at this stage is long term planning.

Personally, I am not excited by Rohr but I admit that he has given the team stability and is building something. I would prefer it if he built a more dominating, pressing side than one that goes "defence-first" in big tournament games. I would also like to see more of our swift counter attacking game that we saw in the WC qualifiers (e.g. against Cameroon at home). For me, that will be enough for me regardless of the outcome of our next AFCON adventure. However, if we don't win it will not be unreasonable for critics to call for his head. The fact that you and I may disagree does not make such calls unreasonable.

[Damunk]

Our problem as a people is that we're not used to building anything, we want instant success and are always impatient.
Stephen Keshi of Blessed memory won AFCON but the team failed to qualify for the next 2 AFCONs, which was a sign that the team was not built on any solid foundations. IMO, part of the problem was the constant chopping and changing in the squad.
Now we have a man at the helm, who has brought stability to the SE and is gradually building a strong team with solid foundations. He may or may not win anything with the SE but he has laid a foundation for long lasting success.
Prof, his critic, acknowledged that he doesn't change his team anyhow. A new player has to be better than the incumbent to take his place. We can all see the team getting stronger and stronger and this is because a team is being built.
I would rather prefer the Rohr approach to team building than a flash in the pan success that is unsustainable. Rohr's work involved changing the mentality of our players to challenge themselves in the top European leagues rather than play within their comfort zones. Today, we have the highest number of Nigerian players plying their trade in the top leagues and it's rising.
Players know what they need to do to get into the SE and it's made the team more competitive. Simy Nwankwo in an interview this week, said that he believed that he lost his place in the SE due to playing in Serie B and is hoping to use his return to Serie A to win his place back in the SE. That's the spirit Rohr has injected into the SE.
Under Rohr, the SE have qualified for tournaments with ease and I believe that the team he built on solid foundations would eventually become tournament winners.

Your first sentence is true but has nothing to do with the initial premise of this thread. Prof is a Rohr critic but did not ask for him to be sacked now. He said that Rohr's position may be under threat if we doesn’t win the AFCON and/or reach the last 16 of the WC at his second attempt. While you may belive differently about Rohr's capability and want him to stay on, it does not mean that any critic calling for Rohr to leave does not believe in long-term planning. Talking about a possible successor at this stage is long term planning.

Personally, I am not excited by Rohr but I admit that he has given the team stability and is building something. I would prefer it if he built a more dominating, pressing side than one that goes "defence-first" in big tournament games. I would also like to see more of our swift counter attacking game that we saw in the WC qualifiers (e.g. against Cameroon at home). For me, that will be enough for me regardless of the outcome of our next AFCON adventure. However, if we don't win it will not be unreasonable for critics to call for his head. The fact that you and I may disagree does not make such calls unreasonable.

Aruako1, you have always been one of the 'fair and balanced' Rohr critics but it seems you are the minority amongst them.
Virtually everything Dammy said in his post is undisputably true but only a few are willing to acknowledge the man's good work.

The 'concede-no-ground' brigade are the ones that dominate the conversation on Rohr and so I see Dammy's post as being directed at them and not necessarily Prof. After all, Prof gives credit to Rohr for the AFCON bronze - something which too many find too difficult to contemplate.

[Dammy]

Our problem as a people is that we're not used to building anything, we want instant success and are always impatient.
Stephen Keshi of Blessed memory won AFCON but the team failed to qualify for the next 2 AFCONs, which was a sign that the team was not built on any solid foundations. IMO, part of the problem was the constant chopping and changing in the squad.
Now we have a man at the helm, who has brought stability to the SE and is gradually building a strong team with solid foundations. He may or may not win anything with the SE but he has laid a foundation for long lasting success.
Prof, his critic, acknowledged that he doesn't change his team anyhow. A new player has to be better than the incumbent to take his place. We can all see the team getting stronger and stronger and this is because a team is being built.
I would rather prefer the Rohr approach to team building than a flash in the pan success that is unsustainable. Rohr's work involved changing the mentality of our players to challenge themselves in the top European leagues rather than play within their comfort zones. Today, we have the highest number of Nigerian players plying their trade in the top leagues and it's rising.
Players know what they need to do to get into the SE and it's made the team more competitive. Simy Nwankwo in an interview this week, said that he believed that he lost his place in the SE due to playing in Serie B and is hoping to use his return to Serie A to win his place back in the SE. That's the spirit Rohr has injected into the SE.
Under Rohr, the SE have qualified for tournaments with ease and I believe that the team he built on solid foundations would eventually become tournament winners.

Your first sentence is true but has nothing to do with the initial premise of this thread. Prof is a Rohr critic but did not ask for him to be sacked now. He said that Rohr's position may be under threat if we doesn’t win the AFCON and/or reach the last 16 of the WC at his second attempt. While you may belive differently about Rohr's capability and want him to stay on, it does not mean that any critic calling for Rohr to leave does not believe in long-term planning. Talking about a possible successor at this stage is long term planning.

Personally, I am not excited by Rohr but I admit that he has given the team stability and is building something. I would prefer it if he built a more dominating, pressing side than one that goes "defence-first" in big tournament games. I would also like to see more of our swift counter attacking game that we saw in the WC qualifiers (e.g. against Cameroon at home). For me, that will be enough for me regardless of the outcome of our next AFCON adventure. However, if we don't win it will not be unreasonable for critics to call for his head. The fact that you and I may disagree does not make such calls unreasonable.

Aruako1, you have always been one of the 'fair and balanced' Rohr critics but it seems you are the minority amongst them.
Virtually everything Dammy said in his post is undisputably true but only a few are willing to acknowledge the man's good work.

The 'concede-no-ground' brigade are the ones that dominate the conversation on Rohr and so I see Dammy's post as being directed at them and not necessarily Prof. After all, Prof gives credit to Rohr for the AFCON bronze - something which too many find too difficult to contemplate.

What most critics fail to see is that Rohr is building a solid foundation for the SE, just like Westerhoff did. Westerhoff won his first and only title in 1994 after 5 years on the job. IMO, his greatest legacy was the foundation for a solid team that he put in place. I remember an interview that he gave after the 1994 WC, he predicted a bright future for the SE with talents like West, Babangida, Bolaji Douglas (Oloye) coming through. The team went on to win the 1996 Olympics Gold medal and also became the first African country to qualify for 3 successive World Cups. If not for politics that led to a continental ban, that team would have won 3 successive AFCONs as well because it was head and shoulders above any African team. That cycle ended in 2002 and I see similarities with the work Rohr is doing.

[aruako1]

Our problem as a people is that we're not used to building anything, we want instant success and are always impatient.
Stephen Keshi of Blessed memory won AFCON but the team failed to qualify for the next 2 AFCONs, which was a sign that the team was not built on any solid foundations. IMO, part of the problem was the constant chopping and changing in the squad.
Now we have a man at the helm, who has brought stability to the SE and is gradually building a strong team with solid foundations. He may or may not win anything with the SE but he has laid a foundation for long lasting success.
Prof, his critic, acknowledged that he doesn't change his team anyhow. A new player has to be better than the incumbent to take his place. We can all see the team getting stronger and stronger and this is because a team is being built.
I would rather prefer the Rohr approach to team building than a flash in the pan success that is unsustainable. Rohr's work involved changing the mentality of our players to challenge themselves in the top European leagues rather than play within their comfort zones. Today, we have the highest number of Nigerian players plying their trade in the top leagues and it's rising.
Players know what they need to do to get into the SE and it's made the team more competitive. Simy Nwankwo in an interview this week, said that he believed that he lost his place in the SE due to playing in Serie B and is hoping to use his return to Serie A to win his place back in the SE. That's the spirit Rohr has injected into the SE.
Under Rohr, the SE have qualified for tournaments with ease and I believe that the team he built on solid foundations would eventually become tournament winners.

Your first sentence is true but has nothing to do with the initial premise of this thread. Prof is a Rohr critic but did not ask for him to be sacked now. He said that Rohr's position may be under threat if we doesn’t win the AFCON and/or reach the last 16 of the WC at his second attempt. While you may belive differently about Rohr's capability and want him to stay on, it does not mean that any critic calling for Rohr to leave does not believe in long-term planning. Talking about a possible successor at this stage is long term planning.

Personally, I am not excited by Rohr but I admit that he has given the team stability and is building something. I would prefer it if he built a more dominating, pressing side than one that goes "defence-first" in big tournament games. I would also like to see more of our swift counter attacking game that we saw in the WC qualifiers (e.g. against Cameroon at home). For me, that will be enough for me regardless of the outcome of our next AFCON adventure. However, if we don't win it will not be unreasonable for critics to call for his head. The fact that you and I may disagree does not make such calls unreasonable.

Aruako1, you have always been one of the 'fair and balanced' Rohr critics but it seems you are the minority amongst them.
Virtually everything Dammy said in his post is undisputably true but only a few are willing to acknowledge the man's good work.

The 'concede-no-ground' brigade are the ones that dominate the conversation on Rohr and so I see Dammy's post as being directed at them and not necessarily Prof. After all, Prof gives credit to Rohr for the AFCON bronze - something which too many find too difficult to contemplate.

I would be blind not to see the good work he has done. I also like his personality and the way he is building a unit. I guess I'm still a bit traumatised by Kaliningrad where I had hoped that we would assert ourselves a bit more against Croatia. But if he can get our attacking talent to gel then I want him to stay as long as possible.

[mcal]

Our problem as a people is that we're not used to building anything, we want instant success and are always impatient.
Stephen Keshi of Blessed memory won AFCON but the team failed to qualify for the next 2 AFCONs, which was a sign that the team was not built on any solid foundations. IMO, part of the problem was the constant chopping and changing in the squad.
Now we have a man at the helm, who has brought stability to the SE and is gradually building a strong team with solid foundations. He may or may not win anything with the SE but he has laid a foundation for long lasting success.
Prof, his critic, acknowledged that he doesn't change his team anyhow. A new player has to be better than the incumbent to take his place. We can all see the team getting stronger and stronger and this is because a team is being built.
I would rather prefer the Rohr approach to team building than a flash in the pan success that is unsustainable. Rohr's work involved changing the mentality of our players to challenge themselves in the top European leagues rather than play within their comfort zones. Today, we have the highest number of Nigerian players plying their trade in the top leagues and it's rising.
Players know what they need to do to get into the SE and it's made the team more competitive. Simy Nwankwo in an interview this week, said that he believed that he lost his place in the SE due to playing in Serie B and is hoping to use his return to Serie A to win his place back in the SE. That's the spirit Rohr has injected into the SE.
Under Rohr, the SE have qualified for tournaments with ease and I believe that the team he built on solid foundations would eventually become tournament winners.

...that there is and has always been our achilles heels. In all facets of a Nigerian life.

[mcal]

Our problem as a people is that we're not used to building anything, we want instant success and are always impatient.
Stephen Keshi of Blessed memory won AFCON but the team failed to qualify for the next 2 AFCONs, which was a sign that the team was not built on any solid foundations. IMO, part of the problem was the constant chopping and changing in the squad.
Now we have a man at the helm, who has brought stability to the SE and is gradually building a strong team with solid foundations. He may or may not win anything with the SE but he has laid a foundation for long lasting success.
Prof, his critic, acknowledged that he doesn't change his team anyhow. A new player has to be better than the incumbent to take his place. We can all see the team getting stronger and stronger and this is because a team is being built.
I would rather prefer the Rohr approach to team building than a flash in the pan success that is unsustainable. Rohr's work involved changing the mentality of our players to challenge themselves in the top European leagues rather than play within their comfort zones. Today, we have the highest number of Nigerian players plying their trade in the top leagues and it's rising.
Players know what they need to do to get into the SE and it's made the team more competitive. Simy Nwankwo in an interview this week, said that he believed that he lost his place in the SE due to playing in Serie B and is hoping to use his return to Serie A to win his place back in the SE. That's the spirit Rohr has injected into the SE.
Under Rohr, the SE have qualified for tournaments with ease and I believe that the team he built on solid foundations would eventually become tournament winners.

Your first sentence is true but has nothing to do with the initial premise of this thread. Prof is a Rohr critic but did not ask for him to be sacked now. He said that Rohr's position may be under threat if we doesn’t win the AFCON and/or reach the last 16 of the WC at his second attempt. While you may belive differently about Rohr's capability and want him to stay on, it does not mean that any critic calling for Rohr to leave does not believe in long-term planning. Talking about a possible successor at this stage is long term planning.

Personally, I am not excited by Rohr but I admit that he has given the team stability and is building something. I would prefer it if he built a more dominating, pressing side than one that goes "defence-first" in big tournament games. I would also like to see more of our swift counter attacking game that we saw in the WC qualifiers (e.g. against Cameroon at home). For me, that will be enough for me regardless of the outcome of our next AFCON adventure. However, if we don't win it will not be unreasonable for critics to call for his head. The fact that you and I may disagree does not make such calls unreasonable.

...a "constructive critic" will lay things out in a way to appease both sides while sowing discord seeds.

[maceo4]

Our problem as a people is that we're not used to building anything, we want instant success and are always impatient.
Stephen Keshi of Blessed memory won AFCON but the team failed to qualify for the next 2 AFCONs, which was a sign that the team was not built on any solid foundations. IMO, part of the problem was the constant chopping and changing in the squad.
Now we have a man at the helm, who has brought stability to the SE and is gradually building a strong team with solid foundations. He may or may not win anything with the SE but he has laid a foundation for long lasting success.
Prof, his critic, acknowledged that he doesn't change his team anyhow. A new player has to be better than the incumbent to take his place. We can all see the team getting stronger and stronger and this is because a team is being built.
I would rather prefer the Rohr approach to team building than a flash in the pan success that is unsustainable. Rohr's work involved changing the mentality of our players to challenge themselves in the top European leagues rather than play within their comfort zones. Today, we have the highest number of Nigerian players plying their trade in the top leagues and it's rising.
Players know what they need to do to get into the SE and it's made the team more competitive. Simy Nwankwo in an interview this week, said that he believed that he lost his place in the SE due to playing in Serie B and is hoping to use his return to Serie A to win his place back in the SE. That's the spirit Rohr has injected into the SE.
Under Rohr, the SE have qualified for tournaments with ease and I believe that the team he built on solid foundations would eventually become tournament winners.

...that there is and has always been our achilles heels. In all facets of a Nigerian life.

Well, I'd agree with you if you could provide ample examples of other 'top' footballing countries that have persisted with their coach for as long as we have without much to show for it. I don't think this is a Nigerian thing, its a soccer thing, coaches are expected to deliver and when they don't they are usually replaced. Like Keshi said "is football"....I laid it out in a previous discussion with Damunk and co on another thread, Rohr's current tenure is the longest he's EVER had in his entire career, a career littered with mediocre to poor results and sackings after sackings, its the life of a football coach, stop trying to make it seem like we are oddballs for asking for the norm...

[vancity eagle]

Our problem as a people is that we're not used to building anything, we want instant success and are always impatient.
Stephen Keshi of Blessed memory won AFCON but the team failed to qualify for the next 2 AFCONs, which was a sign that the team was not built on any solid foundations. IMO, part of the problem was the constant chopping and changing in the squad.
Now we have a man at the helm, who has brought stability to the SE and is gradually building a strong team with solid foundations. He may or may not win anything with the SE but he has laid a foundation for long lasting success.
Prof, his critic, acknowledged that he doesn't change his team anyhow. A new player has to be better than the incumbent to take his place. We can all see the team getting stronger and stronger and this is because a team is being built.
I would rather prefer the Rohr approach to team building than a flash in the pan success that is unsustainable. Rohr's work involved changing the mentality of our players to challenge themselves in the top European leagues rather than play within their comfort zones. Today, we have the highest number of Nigerian players plying their trade in the top leagues and it's rising.
Players know what they need to do to get into the SE and it's made the team more competitive. Simy Nwankwo in an interview this week, said that he believed that he lost his place in the SE due to playing in Serie B and is hoping to use his return to Serie A to win his place back in the SE. That's the spirit Rohr has injected into the SE.
Under Rohr, the SE have qualified for tournaments with ease and I believe that the team he built on solid foundations would eventually become tournament winners.

...that there is and has always been our achilles heels. In all facets of a Nigerian life.

Well, I'd agree with you if you could provide ample examples of other 'top' footballing countries that have persisted with their coach for as long as we have without much to show for it. I don't think this is a Nigerian thing, its a soccer thing, coaches are expected to deliver and when they don't they are usually replaced. Like Keshi said "is football"....I laid it out in a previous discussion with Damunk and co on another thread, Rohr's current tenure is the longest he's EVER had in his entire career, a career littered with mediocre to poor results and sackings after sackings, its the life of a football coach, stop trying to make it seem like we are oddballs for asking for the norm...

Senegal have more talent and have been much bigger "faulures" than SE, yet they have stuck with their coach.

Frankly he should have been sacked for failing to qualify from their WC group. Inexcusable if you ask me. I also dont really see the team improving under him.

German coach failed miserably at WC and during Nations league, yet he is still there.

Then there's this "without much to show for" argument.

He has only had 2 tournaments, which he happened to both qualify for with games to spare.

1. WC - group of death where we were eliminated in last few minutes

2. ANC - Bronze finish after missing 2 previous editions, again losing in last second d to eventual champions.

Where exactly is this spectacular failure you all seem to be going on about ?

[maceo4]

Our problem as a people is that we're not used to building anything, we want instant success and are always impatient.
Stephen Keshi of Blessed memory won AFCON but the team failed to qualify for the next 2 AFCONs, which was a sign that the team was not built on any solid foundations. IMO, part of the problem was the constant chopping and changing in the squad.
Now we have a man at the helm, who has brought stability to the SE and is gradually building a strong team with solid foundations. He may or may not win anything with the SE but he has laid a foundation for long lasting success.
Prof, his critic, acknowledged that he doesn't change his team anyhow. A new player has to be better than the incumbent to take his place. We can all see the team getting stronger and stronger and this is because a team is being built.
I would rather prefer the Rohr approach to team building than a flash in the pan success that is unsustainable. Rohr's work involved changing the mentality of our players to challenge themselves in the top European leagues rather than play within their comfort zones. Today, we have the highest number of Nigerian players plying their trade in the top leagues and it's rising.
Players know what they need to do to get into the SE and it's made the team more competitive. Simy Nwankwo in an interview this week, said that he believed that he lost his place in the SE due to playing in Serie B and is hoping to use his return to Serie A to win his place back in the SE. That's the spirit Rohr has injected into the SE.
Under Rohr, the SE have qualified for tournaments with ease and I believe that the team he built on solid foundations would eventually become tournament winners.

...that there is and has always been our achilles heels. In all facets of a Nigerian life.

Well, I'd agree with you if you could provide ample examples of other 'top' footballing countries that have persisted with their coach for as long as we have without much to show for it. I don't think this is a Nigerian thing, its a soccer thing, coaches are expected to deliver and when they don't they are usually replaced. Like Keshi said "is football"....I laid it out in a previous discussion with Damunk and co on another thread, Rohr's current tenure is the longest he's EVER had in his entire career, a career littered with mediocre to poor results and sackings after sackings, its the life of a football coach, stop trying to make it seem like we are oddballs for asking for the norm...

Senegal have more talent and have been much bigger "faulures" than SE, yet they have stuck with their coach.

Frankly he should have been sacked for failing to qualify from their WC group. Inexcusable if you ask me. I also dont really see the team improving under him.

German coach failed miserably at WC and during Nations league, yet he is still there.

Then there's this "without much to show for" argument.

He has only had 2 tournaments, which he happened to both qualify for with games to spare.

1. WC - group of death where we were eliminated in last few minutes

2. ANC - Bronze finish after missing 2 previous editions, again losing in last second d to eventual champions.

Where exactly is this spectacular failure you all seem to be going on about ?

Ok I give you Senegal, and I commend them for continuing with their local legend with a long term view as far as encouraging their home grown coaches. There is not the same impetus for us to continue supporting an expatriate who has never been given this much time on a job before, even in his own country.

1. Germany, really? The same coach that has won the world cup for them? Isn't that the 'much to show for it'???? See how shameful you are by listing a failure as your first of 'much to show for'. Have you no shame? He failed, didn't meet his objective at the WC, went out at the first hurdle same as all the minnows at the world cup and you are listing that as your first 'much to show for'. Na real wa...

2. ANC he met his target, so that's fine, Enugu II is saying he has to do more than that to continue in his job, what is so wrong about stating that? Why do you feel he should continue without any expectations? Where they do that at?

[Damunk]

Ok I give you Senegal, and I commend them for continuing with their local legend with a long term view as far as encouraging their home grown coaches. There is not the same impetus for us to continue supporting an expatriate who has never been given this much time on a job before, even in his own country.

Boss, I don't get this logic o.
We should dispose of him because others have 'tolerated' him for shorter spells? But he was sacked for poor results. He is not getting poor results with us. So far, he is way above average.
Can anyone deny that?

If Senegal can show maturity and restraint, why can't we?
Because Rohr is a foreigner? This is what we should be doing with our local coaches - showing maturity and restraint as long as they are showing an upward progression.
We have spectacularly failed to do that in the past...and we want to keep doing it, if left to some.
Hence the admirable Nigerian record of 20 national team coaches in 20 years.

1. Germany, really? The same coach that has won the world cup for them? Isn't that the 'much to show for it'???? See how shameful you are by listing a failure as your first of 'much to show for'. Have you no shame? He failed, didn't meet his objective at the WC, went out at the first hurdle same as all the minnows at the world cup and you are listing that as your first 'much to show for'. Na real wa...

I thought the SE were "expected" to win ACON on the basis that we have won it before and anything less was unacceptable. I thought Rohr, according to some, had "failed' by only winning the bronze. Now he is actually mandated to win AFCON (based on our birthright/pedigree/divine anointing etc etc) and anything less is a sackable offence.
So where does Germany's undoubted pedigree factor into this argument, having been kicked out of the WC in the first round and refusing to sack their coach? Same with Spain 4 years before. From World Champions to zero level and they still hold their nerve.
Our own is from sub-zero level (not even qualifying for AFCON twice!) to bronze medal level and some still want to sack the coach.
What wisdom do they have that we don't?

We thought the logic was 'to whom much is given, much is expected', so why excuse Germany and Spain for holding fire but pushing for us to do the exact opposite?
This is a 'twist and turn, duck and dive' argument you are making Chief.

2. ANC he met his target, so that's fine, Enugu II is saying has to do more than that to continue in his job,what is so wrong about stating that? Why do you feel he should continue without any expectations? Where they do that at?

Strawman!!!!!!!
Nobody is saying that!

[Enugu II]

Damunk,

Nigeria's goals are much higher than Gabon or Niger. If Niger or Gabon wins AFCON bronze, that is a serious cause for national celebration. Make no mistake about that.

For Nigeria, the goal is to win the AFCON not merely to participate or to win bronze. That has been the situation across time. Please let us know when this expectation changed or what has changed to necessitate lower expectations? Getting a bronze medal is the LEAST expected, as I and others have always known. It isn't drawing with Brazil in an inconsequential friendly. This is a Nigerian team that you and others are putting up as likely contenders for great WC performances with the grooming of foreign-based players and then expecting an AFCON win has suddenly a tall order? Really?

In my view, Rohr has met the minimum expectation and that is exactly what earned him a contract renewal. I support that renewal and I do not regret doing so. If he fails to do better the next time around, he will not deserve another renewal. He isn't NT coach to groom players for AC Milan, Juventus, Liverpool, to Barcelona but to simply win trophies for NIGERIA. That is my view. Nigeria expects more especially now with the type of talents suddenly available to Nigeria. If Nigeria had always expected the big prize, why should Nigeria expect anything less now that it is supposedly getting better talents at its disposal? It doesn't make sense.

Ok I give you Senegal, and I commend them for continuing with their local legend with a long term view as far as encouraging their home grown coaches. There is not the same impetus for us to continue supporting an expatriate who has never been given this much time on a job before, even in his own country.

Boss, I don't get this logic o.
We should dispose of him because others have 'tolerated' him for shorter spells? But he was sacked for poor results. He is not getting poor results with us. So far, he is way above average.
Can anyone deny that?

If Senegal can show maturity and restraint, why can't we?
Because Rohr is a foreigner? This is what we should be doing with our local coaches - showing maturity and restraint as long as they are showing an upward progression.
We have spectacularly failed to do that in the past...and we want to keep doing it, if left to some.
Hence the admirable Nigerian record of 20 national team coaches in 20 years.

1. Germany, really? The same coach that has won the world cup for them? Isn't that the 'much to show for it'???? See how shameful you are by listing a failure as your first of 'much to show for'. Have you no shame? He failed, didn't meet his objective at the WC, went out at the first hurdle same as all the minnows at the world cup and you are listing that as your first 'much to show for'. Na real wa...

I thought the SE were "expected" to win ACON on the basis that we have won it before and anything less was unacceptable. I thought Rohr, according to some, had "failed' by only winning the bronze. Now he is actually mandated to win AFCON (based on our birthright/pedigree/divine anointing etc etc) and anything less is a sackable offence.
So where does Germany's undoubted pedigree factor into this argument, having been kicked out of the WC in the first round and refusing to sack their coach? Same with Spain 4 years before. From World Champions to zero level and they still hold their nerve.
Our own is from sub-zero level (not even qualifying for AFCON twice!) to bronze medal level and some still want to sack the coach.
What wisdom do they have that we don't?

We thought the logic was 'to whom much is given, much is expected', so why excuse Germany and Spain for holding fire but pushing for us to do the exact opposite?
This is a 'twist and turn, duck and dive' argument you are making Chief.

2. ANC he met his target, so that's fine, Enugu II is saying has to do more than that to continue in his job,what is so wrong about stating that? Why do you feel he should continue without any expectations? Where they do that at?

Strawman!!!!!!!
Nobody is saying that!