Cybereagles

The Undisputed Number One Home for All Super Eagles Fans
It is currently Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:36 am

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 85 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:14 pm
Posts: 13818
Location: USA
For Nigeria, Mikel rarely played DM...so if performances for Nigeria are the yardstick, its Oliseh all the way.

Mikel should be compared to Jay Jay when it comes to Nigeria play.

Its when you go to the club level, its a bit more complicated to answer.

_________________


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:11 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:07 am
Posts: 43907
Enugu II wrote:
oloye wrote:
I don't know why people always love to compare players, to start with both are different kind of players, I know whom I would have loved to be on the ball when we lost to Italy in 1994, but I will keep the answer to myself.

That is not even saying one is better, but I know who I would want to be with the ball in that dying minutes of that Italian game.


Oloye,

You dis man sef. We can infer. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

BTW, I agree COMPLETELY. Especially, those two were decidedly different types of players.

Walahi Prof we would have gotten past Italy, that match still hurts me like it was played yesterday.

_________________
Image
"There is big pressure at this club as you cannot be like the manager at Arsenal and ask for five years to try and to win one trophy" - Jose Mourinho

.... I believe in God. I try to be a good man so He can have a bit of time to give me a hand when I need it - Jose Mourinho


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:56 am
Posts: 1124
Mikel hands down , no comparison. FYI, Oliseh was a bench warmer for the big clubs he played for. Go watch Nigeria Vs Spain confederation cup. Mikel vs the world best midfielders.

_________________
www.ezesportsworld.net

Chesapeake sports Academy


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:45 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 5:59 pm
Posts: 49255
Location: Nembe Creek...Oil Exploration. If you call am bunkering na you sabi.
onwuatuegwu wrote:
https://www.completesports.com/oliseh-greater-than-mikel-as-defensive-midfielder-aiyegbeni/

Oliseh Greater Than Mikel As Defensive Midfielder –Aiyegbeni

August 11, 2020 12:26 pm

Erstwhile Nigeria international striker Yakubu Aiyegbeni says former Super Eagles captain and coach, Sunday Oliseh was a better defensive midfielder during his playing days than fellow ex-Eagles skipper, John Obi Mikel.

Controversy over Nigeria’s greatest player ever continues to rage on even among ex-internationals with Aiyegbeni’s disagreeing with fellow Eagles legend, Daniel Amokachi who recently rated Mikel as Nigeria’s greatest footballer.

Speaking on Sports Zone on Lagos Talks from his England base, Aiyegbeni says Mikel is not even the greatest defensive midfielder Nigeria has produced preferring to give the honour to Oliseh.

The Yak as Aiyegbeni was known during his playing days however, concedes that while Mikel’s superior trophy cabinet might lend credence to the “greatest-ever” tag, Oliseh was much the superior player.

“Mikel is the greatest because of the trophies he has won. Don’t get me wrong, Mikel is a very, very good player [but] there’s no way you can compare Mikel with Sunday Oliseh. No chance, no chance,” said Aiyegbeni who retired in 2015 as Nigeria’s third-highest goalscorer with 21 goals in 57 caps.

“Mikel did so well in his career in Chelsea, he won a lot of trophies [but] there is nowhere in the world you can compare Mikel and Sunday Oliseh.

“Oliseh is a better player than Mikel. Mikel won a lot of trophies but Oliseh was unbelievable,” the former Portsmouth and Everton striker added.

Image


I like Oliseh but Mikel IS THE BETTER Defensive midfielder.

It is funny how he is mixing their roles both for their various clubsides and for Naijaria.

I don't like comparing two great Naijarian players that played somewhat of a similar position, but for those comparing clubsides, Mikel fought off all comers at Chelsea in a clubside that could afford to buy ANY player and did try to buy "better" players. He survived 10 different coaches. It tells you that he knows how to play the position at the highest level. I like him because he subsumed his own ego to play a textbook description of the role of a DM at club level.

Now, at SE, they played two different roles.

I don't know what the stats say about both players but I suspect that Mikel had better ball retention (hard to dispossess) rate than Oliseh. Oliseh was good but not as good as Mikel when it comes to improving the play of those around him. Do we suddenly forget how often we played games without Mikel and we couldn't retain possesion and looked disjointed? Mikel is one player you could find in a traffic jam and he will save possession for you. Oliseh is obviously better at shooting than Mikel but when you say DM, just pop in the tape of Mikel and watch a master perform.

_________________
THERE WAS A COUNTRY...

...can't cry more than the bereaved!

Well done is better than well said!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:35 pm
Posts: 666
This will be a tough one! Both players contributed immensely when Nigeria won afcon in 94 and 2013, but I will go with Mikel as he was more consistent.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDjGjf9JQcO ... z1kpfovu8w


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:03 pm
Posts: 31744
Location: The Kingdom
Though Yakubu played with both, Amokachi played more times with Oliseh.

They play different roles and have different strengths and weaknesses. If I was a defender or central midfielder, I would prefer to play with Mikel as DM. If I was an atacking midfielder or striker, I would prefer to play with Oliseh as my DM.

_________________
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life"

"If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 4:08 pm
Posts: 12419
Location: seattle
I thought the lockdown was eased where you guys are

_________________
make peaceful change impossible make violent change inevitable.

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement....Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:45 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 5:59 pm
Posts: 49255
Location: Nembe Creek...Oil Exploration. If you call am bunkering na you sabi.
Lolly wrote:
Though Yakubu played with both, Amokachi played more times with Oliseh.

They play different roles and have different strengths and weaknesses. If I was a defender or central midfielder, I would prefer to play with Mikel as DM. If I was an atacking midfielder or striker, I would prefer to play with Oliseh as my DM.

:thumb: :thumb:

_________________
THERE WAS A COUNTRY...

...can't cry more than the bereaved!

Well done is better than well said!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 7:01 pm
Posts: 26800
Location: Copacabana
Great players though one played for Mourinho and bored the whole world with sideways passing but monkey no fine..... the other one won't be limited by anybody & that may not be a very safe approach for a DM.

_________________
*** Every child is A STAR! ***
SUPER EAGLES!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------
"If you are tribalistic you have no right to complain about racism!!!"
* Kingsley Moghalu * Omoyele Sowore * Fela Durotoye *


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:10 pm
Posts: 1785
Location: pittsburgh
1naija wrote:
Aiyegbemi is right. Oliseh was a better defensive midfielder, but I think Mikel was better player in general because he had offensive capabilities that Oliseh didn't have. They were both great players.


Na bro, Oliseh was a beast. Yes he had better agility going forward but didn't have to cos he had no reason upfront with the offensive line we had. But dare check his club stats for goals. And ooh!!! Don't forget that wonder goal against Spain in the France 98 world cup.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:17 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:06 am
Posts: 6277
Oliseh wasn't a defensive midfielder, at least not in the sense Mikel was.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:48 pm
Posts: 15773
YemiBrazil wrote:
Great players though one played for Mourinho and bored the whole world with sideways passing but monkey no fine..... the other one won't be limited by anybody & that may not be a very safe approach for a DM.


Mikel has played for 16 years. In that 16 years, Mikel played played for Mourinho for 3 years (1 year the first time and 2 years the second time). In that 3 years Mikel was never Mourinho's undisputed starter.

2006-07 = Makelele + Mikel
2013-14 = Ramires (Matic came in January)
2014-15 = Matic

Thus, Mikel only played for Mourinho for 3 years and in that 3 years, he was not a starter.

Therefore, if Mikel bored the world for 3 years (as a substitute), then your argument is false. 13 years of exciting football and you eclipse that 13 years with only 3 years? And even in that 3 years, he wasnt a starter! I think thats a gross disservice to Mikel's career and the 13 years of beautiful football he played

_________________
metalalloy wrote:
Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:48 pm
Posts: 15773
kalani JR wrote:
Oliseh wasn't a defensive midfielder, at least not in the sense Mikel was.


Is Mikel a DM in the mould of

Matic
Allan
Gattuso
Ramires
Holjberg
Veratti
Thiago
Kante
Ndidi
Frenkie
Vieira


bro, Defensive Midfield is not a style. Its a position. I left out the likes of Pirlo and Busquets because I didnt want to take away from the argument we are presenty having. But there is no specific style for a DM.

_________________
metalalloy wrote:
Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 7:01 pm
Posts: 26800
Location: Copacabana
jungle-jawara wrote:
1naija wrote:
Aiyegbemi is right. Oliseh was a better defensive midfielder, but I think Mikel was better player in general because he had offensive capabilities that Oliseh didn't have. They were both great players.


Na bro, Oliseh was a beast. Yes he had better agility going forward but didn't have to cos he had no reason upfront with the offensive line we had. But dare check his club stats for goals. And ooh!!! Don't forget that wonder goal against Spain in the France 98 world cup.

:thumb: :thumb:
Oliseh got it all - full confidence from Day 1.

_________________
*** Every child is A STAR! ***
SUPER EAGLES!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------
"If you are tribalistic you have no right to complain about racism!!!"
* Kingsley Moghalu * Omoyele Sowore * Fela Durotoye *


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:22 pm
Posts: 5529
Location: Dallas/Houston, TX
Question

How different would that 94 team had been if Mikel was in that midfield instead of Oliseh?

Let’s think of it that way.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:35 pm
Posts: 30931
Mikel is living embodiment of why for me, the European manager and concept of the game is in the long term antithetical to the full flowering of the African player.

Oliseh was at least a gear ahead of Mikel. He expressed and played at a technical and tactical level that was beyond anything Mikel was able to offer.

To even begin to compare them in the DM role is evidence of a limited understanding of the game...

Folks should go back and watch Oliseh in his brief stint in Italy.

He was one of he early definers of the evolution of the DM from the destructive/ball winner role to a deep lying playmaker.

I believe there was even an article by Jonathan Wilson in the Guardian about this...

_________________
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:48 pm
Posts: 15773
Ugbowo wrote:
Question

How different would that 94 team had been if Mikel was in that midfield instead of Oliseh?

Let’s think of it that way.


That would never have happened because Mikel would have been on the bench competing with Mutiu.

_________________
metalalloy wrote:
Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 7:31 pm
Posts: 5497
Location: Akwa Ibom. Lagos. Dallas.
Great debate for and against two of Nigeria's greatest midfielders. To put the question differently, would prime Mikel have benched Oliseh in the 1994 AFCON and World Cup teams and the 1996 Olympics?

_________________
"WE ARE THE SUPER EAGLES!!!"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 6:41 am
Posts: 39794
Location: Land of the Terrapins
txj wrote:
Mikel is living embodiment of why for me, the European manager and concept of the game is in the long term antithetical to the full flowering of the African player.

Oliseh was at least a gear ahead of Mikel. He expressed and played at a technical and tactical level that was beyond anything Mikel was able to offer.

To even begin to compare them in the DM role is evidence of a limited understanding of the game...

Folks should go back and watch Oliseh in his brief stint in Italy.

He was one of he early definers of the evolution of the DM from the destructive/ball winner role to a deep lying playmaker.

I believe there was even an article by Jonathan Wilson in the Guardian about this...


I’m really starting to wonder if we overrate Mikel for being able to fit into Chelsea’s team, but since leaving no single EPL team has given him a chance, even with him wanting to be close to his family, not even the relegation battlers. He had to go to China, Turkey, Championship etc and now has to go back to the Championship again. Hmmm, and I was here arguing that EPL teams would be lining up for him...wow can’t believe how wrong I was, while Oliseh on the other hand went from top team to top team playing many midfield roles able to adapt and be productive from Ajax to Juventus to Dortmund etc...

_________________
Super Eagus 4 Life!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:29 pm
Posts: 4091
Ugbowo wrote:
Question

How different would that 94 team had been if Mikel was in that midfield instead of Oliseh?

Let’s think of it that way.


Yekini and Amuneke would have screamed at him to pick up the pace :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:48 pm
Posts: 15773
P.s-- for those speaking about Mikel in relation to Oliseh in 1994, I hope you guys remember that in USA 1994, Oliseh was 19, right?

So, i hope you guys are speaking about a 19 year old Mikel replacing a 19 year old Oliseh at the World cup and not a 22-28 year old Mikel? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: because i have a feeling you guys are imagining a 26 year old Mikel strutting it against Dino Baggio. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

_________________
metalalloy wrote:
Does the SE have Gray, Mahrez or Albrighton on our team or players of their caliber?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:51 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:35 pm
Posts: 666
txj wrote:
Mikel is living embodiment of why for me, the European manager and concept of the game is in the long term antithetical to the full flowering of the African player.

Oliseh was at least a gear ahead of Mikel. He expressed and played at a technical and tactical level that was beyond anything Mikel was able to

To even begin to compare them in the DM role is evidence of a limited understanding of the game...

Folks should go back and watch Oliseh in his brief stint in Italy.

He was one of he early definers of the evolution of the DM from the destructive/ball winner role to a deep lying playmaker.

I believe there was even an article by Jonathan Wilson in the Guardian about this...

But he had only 8 caps at Juventus?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:48 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:46 pm
Posts: 62802
Why is this even up for discussion?

Oliseh was the better player and better defensive midfielder or central midfielder, not even close. I still remember the long balls Oliseh delivered to Yekini at Afcon.

_________________
Winners do it the right way.

http://www.weareimpact.com/livebroadcast.aspx


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 85 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 43 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group