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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:56 am 
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fabio wrote:
Bigpokey24,

Help me with this question:

When SE lose to Croatia, they talk sey Croatians dey play for top leagues.

When SE lose to Argentina. Argentina get Messi, Del Maria etc.

When SE lose to Algeria, Algeria get Mahrez.

When SE draw with Tunisia... Wetin be the excuse?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:02 am 
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Odas wrote:
As already stated, though I am beginning to question coach Rohr's game plans and tactics, coach Keshi would have ignored several of these knew players and invited his 'brown-bagged' players. Thus, ...



Yes BUT those players got the ANC trophy at first attempt and 2nd round WC qualification while Rohr's BEST team Nigeria ever had is yet to win any TROPHY.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:45 am 
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wanaj0 wrote:
Odas wrote:
As already stated, though I am beginning to question coach Rohr's game plans and tactics, coach Keshi would have ignored several of these knew players and invited his 'brown-bagged' players. Thus, ...



Yes BUT those players got the ANC trophy at first attempt and 2nd round WC qualification while Rohr's BEST team Nigeria ever had is yet to win any TROPHY.

How come the same team failed to qualify for two consecutive AFCONS in arguably the weakest groups? Keshi props to him will always be remembered for winning the ANC trophy back in 2013, but that was a team simply riding on the momentum provided by the occasion( Zambia also had that phase when they won the AFCON in 2012), the poor outings from the top sides in that tournament, and some elements of serious luck on our side especially in the last group qualifying phase (remember that last group stage match against Ethiopia, a must win match where we were outplayed by Ethiopia, and would have lost the game but for some moments of individual brilliance from Victor Moses). It's no surprise we went on to massively underwhelm in the Confed cup, and eveh struggled to beat ordinary Kenya later on in the 2014 world cup qualifiers in Uyo where some dodgy officiating handed us a draw... Keshi's team was never the same again after that AFCON, a situation that pretty much ruined what could have been a solid foundation to build a very good team, consequently Siasia inherited the remnants, tried to salvage the mess but it was already too late by then.

Rohr on his first try with a completely new generation of players qualified to the last AFCON even with a game to spare, yes we ended up winning the almighty bronze but there was no shame in losing to a far better Algerian team that have so far proven why they are worthy African champions. If Rohr fails to put out a better performance in the next tournament with the quality of talents at his disposal, then of course your grievances will be well justified.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:16 am 
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for those who had no wifi in 2013

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:27 am 
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we dominated every single game in AFCON 2013, be it possession , shots and chances created. one of best defense and attack in the entire tournament , scored a total of 11 goals and let in just 4 goals in the entire tournament.

WE all know how many goals we let in AFCON 2019, we set a record of the first ever Nigerian side to concede the most goals in the history of AFCONs... all with a so called defensive coach.. even the silver winning 1990 SE had a better defensive record

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:49 am 
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Tobi17 wrote:
wanaj0 wrote:
Odas wrote:
As already stated, though I am beginning to question coach Rohr's game plans and tactics, coach Keshi would have ignored several of these knew players and invited his 'brown-bagged' players. Thus, ...



Yes BUT those players got the ANC trophy at first attempt and 2nd round WC qualification while Rohr's BEST team Nigeria ever had is yet to win any TROPHY.

How come the same team failed to qualify for two consecutive AFCONS in arguably the weakest groups? Keshi props to him will always be remembered for winning the ANC trophy back in 2013, but that was a team simply riding on the momentum provided by the occasion( Zambia also had that phase when they won the AFCON in 2012), the poor outings from the top sides in that tournament, and some elements of serious luck on our side especially in the last group qualifying phase (remember that last group stage match against Ethiopia, a must win match where we were outplayed by Ethiopia, and would have lost the game but for some moments of individual brilliance from Victor Moses). It's no surprise we went on to massively underwhelm in the Confed cup, and eveh struggled to beat ordinary Kenya later on in the 2014 world cup qualifiers in Uyo where some dodgy officiating handed us a draw... Keshi's team was never the same again after that AFCON, a situation that pretty much ruined what could have been a solid foundation to build a very good team, consequently Siasia inherited the remnants, tried to salvage the mess but it was already too late by then.

Rohr on his first try with a completely new generation of players qualified to the last AFCON even with a game to spare, yes we ended up winning the almighty bronze but there was no shame in losing to a far better Algerian team that have so far proven why they are worthy African champions. If Rohr fails to put out a better performance in the next tournament with the quality of talents at his disposal, then of course your grievances will be well justified.


We all can build theories around what should or could have happened. We will never know. We can also try to explain why things happened but that also can be disputed because they are subjective. What we cannot dispute are FACTS.

Nigeria did not qualify for the AFCON before 2013 FACT.

Nigeria qualified for the next AFCON in 2013 and WON FACT

Nigeria qualified for the CONFED cup FACT

Nigeria was eliminated in the FIRST round of CONFED FACT

Nigeria qualified for the world cup and qualified for the 2nd round FACT

Under ROHR,

Nigeria qualified for the ANC and came home with the much derided 'golden' bronze FACT

Nigeria was eliminated in the FIRST round of the WC FACT.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:20 am 
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wanaj0 wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
wanaj0 wrote:
Odas wrote:
As already stated, though I am beginning to question coach Rohr's game plans and tactics, coach Keshi would have ignored several of these knew players and invited his 'brown-bagged' players. Thus, ...



Yes BUT those players got the ANC trophy at first attempt and 2nd round WC qualification while Rohr's BEST team Nigeria ever had is yet to win any TROPHY.

How come the same team failed to qualify for two consecutive AFCONS in arguably the weakest groups? Keshi props to him will always be remembered for winning the ANC trophy back in 2013, but that was a team simply riding on the momentum provided by the occasion( Zambia also had that phase when they won the AFCON in 2012), the poor outings from the top sides in that tournament, and some elements of serious luck on our side especially in the last group qualifying phase (remember that last group stage match against Ethiopia, a must win match where we were outplayed by Ethiopia, and would have lost the game but for some moments of individual brilliance from Victor Moses). It's no surprise we went on to massively underwhelm in the Confed cup, and eveh struggled to beat ordinary Kenya later on in the 2014 world cup qualifiers in Uyo where some dodgy officiating handed us a draw... Keshi's team was never the same again after that AFCON, a situation that pretty much ruined what could have been a solid foundation to build a very good team, consequently Siasia inherited the remnants, tried to salvage the mess but it was already too late by then.

Rohr on his first try with a completely new generation of players qualified to the last AFCON even with a game to spare, yes we ended up winning the almighty bronze but there was no shame in losing to a far better Algerian team that have so far proven why they are worthy African champions. If Rohr fails to put out a better performance in the next tournament with the quality of talents at his disposal, then of course your grievances will be well justified.


We all can build theories around what should or could have happened. We will never know. We can also try to explain why things happened but that also can be disputed because they are subjective. What we cannot dispute are FACTS.

Nigeria did not qualify for the AFCON before 2013 FACT.

Nigeria qualified for the next AFCON in 2013 and WON FACT

Nigeria qualified for the CONFED cup FACT

Nigeria was eliminated in the FIRST round of CONFED FACT

Nigeria qualified for the world cup and qualified for the 2nd round FACT

Under ROHR,

Nigeria qualified for the ANC and came home with the much derided 'golden' bronze FACT

Nigeria was eliminated in the FIRST round of the WC FACT.

Can you explain why and how we failed to qualify for two consecutive AFCONs?

We qualified for the second round of the 2014 world cup on the back of some brazen injustice been meted out to a Bosnian team that not only outplayed us comprehensively , but even had a legit call wrongfully ruled out. Heck we even made a special record in that world cup by playing the most drab, uninspiring and boring football in that draw against Iran. The world cup campaign of 2014 under Keshi was just as bad as Rohr's own, we can even argue Rohr's 2018 team at least played some decent football and were just unlucky not to make the 2nd round in that match against Argentina (if only Ighalo had managed to put away his glorious chance).

Let's also not forget Keshi took some questionably garbage players like Reuben Gabriel, Gambo Mohammed etc to the confed cup over far more deserving players that would have made a significant difference on the basis of form and quality. Let's not forget how we failed to qualify for the one of the AFCONs under Keshi by failing to beat a South African team that had absolutely nothing left to play for in the final qualifier game.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:27 am 
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Tobi17 wrote:
wanaj0 wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
wanaj0 wrote:
Odas wrote:
As already stated, though I am beginning to question coach Rohr's game plans and tactics, coach Keshi would have ignored several of these knew players and invited his 'brown-bagged' players. Thus, ...



Yes BUT those players got the ANC trophy at first attempt and 2nd round WC qualification while Rohr's BEST team Nigeria ever had is yet to win any TROPHY.

How come the same team failed to qualify for two consecutive AFCONS in arguably the weakest groups? Keshi props to him will always be remembered for winning the ANC trophy back in 2013, but that was a team simply riding on the momentum provided by the occasion( Zambia also had that phase when they won the AFCON in 2012), the poor outings from the top sides in that tournament, and some elements of serious luck on our side especially in the last group qualifying phase (remember that last group stage match against Ethiopia, a must win match where we were outplayed by Ethiopia, and would have lost the game but for some moments of individual brilliance from Victor Moses). It's no surprise we went on to massively underwhelm in the Confed cup, and eveh struggled to beat ordinary Kenya later on in the 2014 world cup qualifiers in Uyo where some dodgy officiating handed us a draw... Keshi's team was never the same again after that AFCON, a situation that pretty much ruined what could have been a solid foundation to build a very good team, consequently Siasia inherited the remnants, tried to salvage the mess but it was already too late by then.

Rohr on his first try with a completely new generation of players qualified to the last AFCON even with a game to spare, yes we ended up winning the almighty bronze but there was no shame in losing to a far better Algerian team that have so far proven why they are worthy African champions. If Rohr fails to put out a better performance in the next tournament with the quality of talents at his disposal, then of course your grievances will be well justified.


We all can build theories around what should or could have happened. We will never know. We can also try to explain why things happened but that also can be disputed because they are subjective. What we cannot dispute are FACTS.

Nigeria did not qualify for the AFCON before 2013 FACT.

Nigeria qualified for the next AFCON in 2013 and WON FACT

Nigeria qualified for the CONFED cup FACT

Nigeria was eliminated in the FIRST round of CONFED FACT

Nigeria qualified for the world cup and qualified for the 2nd round FACT

Under ROHR,

Nigeria qualified for the ANC and came home with the much derided 'golden' bronze FACT

Nigeria was eliminated in the FIRST round of the WC FACT.

Can you explain why and how we failed to qualify for two consecutive AFCONs?

We qualified for the second round of the 2014 world cup on the back of some brazen injustice been meted out to a Bosnian team that not only outplayed us comprehensively , but even had a legit call wrongfully ruled out. Heck we even made a special record in that world cup by playing the most drab, uninspiring and boring football in that draw against Iran. The world cup campaign of 2014 under Keshi was just as bad as Rohr's own, we can even argue Rohr's 2018 team at least played some decent football and were just unlucky not to make the 2nd round in that match against Argentina (if only Ighalo had managed to put away his glorious chance).

Let's also not forget Keshi took some questionably garbage players like Reuben Gabriel, Gambo Mohammed etc to the confed cup over far more deserving players that would have made a significant difference on the basis of form and quality. Let's not forget how we failed to qualify for the one of the AFCONs under Keshi by failing to beat a South African team that had absolutely nothing left to play for in the final qualifier game.


Again I deal with FACTS not emotions or feelings

So FACT we did not qualify for AFCON before Rohr.

Rohr qualified for AFCON and came back with golden bronze FACT with the 'best team'

Keshi qualified for AFCON and came back with AFCON trophy FACT with 'garbage' players.

Football is a RESULT oriented tournament. Objective is to WIN. Keshi is a WINNER :thumbs:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:43 am 
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Why is that all Nigerian coaches who worked under Pinnick failed to qualify for ANC?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:22 pm 
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fabio wrote:
Why is that all Nigerian coaches who worked under Pinnick failed to qualify for ANC?


:lol: You are very funny. So you want to blame the NFF for the SE's performance under Nigerian coaches but blame Rohr for the SE's performance under his watch?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:58 pm 
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Keshi is dead. May his gentle soul rest in peace.

Nobody can take away his achievements in Nigerian football.

But football has moved on, as it always does.

Some forumers have died since Keshi won the ANC.

Its time to move on...

Hopefully someone like wanajho would understand at some time before we all pass away that football does indeed move on...

The level of stupidity here is only rivalled by Trump supporters...

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We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:26 pm 
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Lolly wrote:
fabio wrote:
Why is that all Nigerian coaches who worked under Pinnick failed to qualify for ANC?


:lol: You are very funny. So you want to blame the NFF for the SE's performance under Nigerian coaches but blame Rohr for the SE's performance under his watch?

no he isn.t blaming the worst coach we hired since betty and lars... he blames the NFF chairman

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:55 pm 
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txj wrote:
Keshi is dead. May his gentle soul rest in peace.

Nobody can take away his achievements in Nigerian football.

But football has moved on, as it always does.

Some forumers have died since Keshi won the ANC.

Its time to move on...

Hopefully someone like wanajho would understand at some time before we all pass away that football does indeed move on...

The level of stupidity here is only rivalled by Trump supporters...


ATF! The undisputed champion :thumbs:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:28 pm 
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wanaj0 wrote:
txj wrote:
Keshi is dead. May his gentle soul rest in peace.

Nobody can take away his achievements in Nigerian football.

But football has moved on, as it always does.

Some forumers have died since Keshi won the ANC.

Its time to move on...

Hopefully someone like wanajho would understand at some time before we all pass away that football does indeed move on...

The level of stupidity here is only rivalled by Trump supporters...


ATF! The undisputed champion :thumbs:



Everything you've ever contributed on this forum since 2013 has been based on a stupid sense of grievance wrt Keshi.

Its nearly a decade since 2013. Keshi has passed on; may he RIP.

Football has moved on.

If you have nothing else to contribute move and remain in R&R you stup1d dolt!

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We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:43 pm 
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wanaj0 wrote:
txj wrote:
Keshi is dead. May his gentle soul rest in peace.

Nobody can take away his achievements in Nigerian football.

But football has moved on, as it always does.

Some forumers have died since Keshi won the ANC.

Its time to move on...

Hopefully someone like wanajho would understand at some time before we all pass away that football does indeed move on...

The level of stupidity here is only rivalled by Trump supporters...


ATF! The undisputed champion :thumbs:

he is derailing the thread insulting you, do not fall for it

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:15 pm 
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I was never a fan of Keshi's football, as much as I appreciate that he achieved for the NT in his stint as coach, I can't remember any major games throughout Keshi's tenure (outside of the 2013 AFCON games against Ivory Coast, Mali, and Burkina Faso in the final) where we played any entertaining attacking football. The only coach in recent memory whose football seemed promising was Siasia, but then the downside to a Siasia coached team was that while they could play some eye-pleasing football, they were very poor in the mental aspect of game management; thus explaining the failure of Siasia to qualify his teams to the ANC in all his stints as coach. Rohr's football philosophy is no doubt too conservative and antithetical to Nigerian football, but at least we've never outrightly struggled to beat any team in Africa, much more the so called minnows( the Madagascar one was a one off freak loss due to the very poor team we put out against them) ...something we always had a problem with under previous coaches, heck once upon a time we huffed and puffed against the likes of Namibia, Ethiopia, Kenya, Sudan etc


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:09 pm 
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txj wrote:
wanaj0 wrote:
txj wrote:
Keshi is dead. May his gentle soul rest in peace.

Nobody can take away his achievements in Nigerian football.

But football has moved on, as it always does.

Some forumers have died since Keshi won the ANC.

Its time to move on...

Hopefully someone like wanajho would understand at some time before we all pass away that football does indeed move on...

The level of stupidity here is only rivalled by Trump supporters...


ATF! The undisputed champion :thumbs:



Everything you've ever contributed on this forum since 2013 has been based on a stupid sense of grievance wrt Keshi.

Its nearly a decade since 2013. Keshi has passed on; may he RIP.

Football has moved on.

If you have nothing else to contribute move and remain in R&R you stup1d dolt!


ATF contribution. Undisputed Champion of.........

First ANC trophy was 1980. It took 14 years to win another one!

Second ANC was 1994 and it took 19 years to win another one.

So, 2013 is RECENT as far as winning AFCON is concerned. You need to check Ghana that is still celebrating their time of winning ANC.

So Keshi's achievement will continue to show the hypocrites here. The people touting Berti stash as the best coach because he was supposedly giving players massage. They will always support LOSERS just because of colour of skin!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:10 pm 
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Bigpokey24 wrote:
wanaj0 wrote:
txj wrote:
Keshi is dead. May his gentle soul rest in peace.

Nobody can take away his achievements in Nigerian football.

But football has moved on, as it always does.

Some forumers have died since Keshi won the ANC.

Its time to move on...

Hopefully someone like wanajho would understand at some time before we all pass away that football does indeed move on...

The level of stupidity here is only rivalled by Trump supporters...


ATF! The undisputed champion :thumbs:

he is derailing the thread insulting you, do not fall for it


Not going to happen. He claimed not to insult people though. That shows how clueless he is :taunt: :taunt:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:14 pm 
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Tobi17 wrote:
I was never a fan of Keshi's football, as much as I appreciate that he achieved for the NT in his stint as coach, I can't remember any major games throughout Keshi's tenure (outside of the 2013 AFCON games against Ivory Coast, Mali, and Burkina Faso in the final) where we played any entertaining attacking football. The only coach in recent memory whose football seemed promising was Siasia, but then the downside to a Siasia coached team was that while they could play some eye-pleasing football, they were very poor in the mental aspect of game management; thus explaining the failure of Siasia to qualify his teams to the ANC in all his stints as coach. Rohr's football philosophy is no doubt too conservative and antithetical to Nigerian football, but at least we've never outrightly struggled to beat any team in Africa, much more the so called minnows( the Madagascar one was a one off freak loss due to the very poor team we put out against them) ...something we always had a problem with under previous coaches, heck once upon a time we huffed and puffed against the likes of Namibia, Ethiopia, Kenya, Sudan etc


At LEAST you are honest. You are not a fan of his. No problem with that. Obvious you seems to be fan of LOSERS than winners. That's the only explanation I can give for your position which I respect.

But some people, they know themselves, hate the color of their skin so much that they can only appreciate what is done by their 'white' master even if it is nonsense.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:22 pm 
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wanaj0 wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
I was never a fan of Keshi's football, as much as I appreciate that he achieved for the NT in his stint as coach, I can't remember any major games throughout Keshi's tenure (outside of the 2013 AFCON games against Ivory Coast, Mali, and Burkina Faso in the final) where we played any entertaining attacking football. The only coach in recent memory whose football seemed promising was Siasia, but then the downside to a Siasia coached team was that while they could play some eye-pleasing football, they were very poor in the mental aspect of game management; thus explaining the failure of Siasia to qualify his teams to the ANC in all his stints as coach. Rohr's football philosophy is no doubt too conservative and antithetical to Nigerian football, but at least we've never outrightly struggled to beat any team in Africa, much more the so called minnows( the Madagascar one was a one off freak loss due to the very poor team we put out against them) ...something we always had a problem with under previous coaches, heck once upon a time we huffed and puffed against the likes of Namibia, Ethiopia, Kenya, Sudan etc


At LEAST you are honest. You are not a fan of his. No problem with that. Obvious you seems to be fan of LOSERS than winners. That's the only explanation I can give for your position which I respect.

But some people, they know themselves, hate the color of their skin so much that they can only appreciate what is done by their 'white' master even if it is nonsense.
.

Now this is the problem, and this is why I hate to engage people like yourself...you've willfully made this about the color of the skin, no logical or rational basis to your assertions, talk of deflecting from the discourse to suit some insidious narrative... You stated your opinion which you're entitled to, and I stated mine but you just had to make it a white vs black thing. The same old typical race baiting cliche. If you think this is about oyinbo vs black, then you have a bigger complex than I gave you credit for.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:57 pm 
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Bigpokey24 wrote:
title with this current squad. just imagine if he was the coach.. we will always dominate possession with Keshi instead of hiding and hoping for a long ball park the bus tactics from the fake man parading as a manger ..5th year and counting the SE looks lost with no pattern of playing style

Keshi qualified with ease , won AFCOn and made WC 2nd round all under 2 and a half years


I doubt if keshi would have even qualified us for the world cup in the first place. That qualifying group was the toughest world cup group in recent years. Keshi's dubious ways would have sabotaged that effort. He was too inconsistent, going from winning AFCON to not qualifying. Rhor has been fairly consistent and determined. There is a revolution going on the the national team and we can not allow confusionists to scatter this progress.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:35 pm 
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Tobi17 wrote:
I was never a fan of Keshi's football, as much as I appreciate that he achieved for the NT in his stint as coach, I can't remember any major games throughout Keshi's tenure (outside of the 2013 AFCON games against Ivory Coast, Mali, and Burkina Faso in the final) where we played any entertaining attacking football. The only coach in recent memory whose football seemed promising was Siasia, but then the downside to a Siasia coached team was that while they could play some eye-pleasing football, they were very poor in the mental aspect of game management; thus explaining the failure of Siasia to qualify his teams to the ANC in all his stints as coach. Rohr's football philosophy is no doubt too conservative and antithetical to Nigerian football, but at least we've never outrightly struggled to beat any team in Africa, much more the so called minnows( the Madagascar one was a one off freak loss due to the very poor team we put out against them) ...something we always had a problem with under previous coaches, heck once upon a time we huffed and puffed against the likes of Namibia, Ethiopia, Kenya, Sudan etc




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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:59 pm 
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wanaj0 wrote:
txj wrote:
wanaj0 wrote:
txj wrote:
Keshi is dead. May his gentle soul rest in peace.

Nobody can take away his achievements in Nigerian football.

But football has moved on, as it always does.

Some forumers have died since Keshi won the ANC.

Its time to move on...

Hopefully someone like wanajho would understand at some time before we all pass away that football does indeed move on...

The level of stupidity here is only rivalled by Trump supporters...


ATF! The undisputed champion :thumbs:



Everything you've ever contributed on this forum since 2013 has been based on a stupid sense of grievance wrt Keshi.

Its nearly a decade since 2013. Keshi has passed on; may he RIP.

Football has moved on.

If you have nothing else to contribute move and remain in R&R you stup1d dolt!


ATF contribution. Undisputed Champion of.........

First ANC trophy was 1980. It took 14 years to win another one!

Second ANC was 1994 and it took 19 years to win another one.

So, 2013 is RECENT as far as winning AFCON is concerned. You need to check Ghana that is still celebrating their time of winning ANC.

So Keshi's achievement will continue to show the hypocrites here. The people touting Berti stash as the best coach because he was supposedly giving players massage. They will always support LOSERS just because of colour of skin!



Let me repeat. NOBODY can take away Keshi's achievements in Nigerian football, both as a player and a manager.

But football, as life, moves on.

We have a new team, new manager, new/higher expectations.

This perpetual grievance culture, has to end at some time!

Hopefully you will move on before we all pass away on this site.

How stupid can anyone be?

_________________
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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