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 Post subject: AHMED MUSA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:55 am 
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:???: :???: :???: :???:

I have never been the biggest Musa critic. Always felt his loudest critics underrated his speed and overrated his mistakes. After the 2018 WC, where Musa saved us from elimination at the hand of Iceland, I said I will never criticize Musa again. Not even the mild criticism which I used to do....

But....

Musa confounds me. He is still, to my eye, the fastest player on the team....and still retains this ability to rise above his peers in certain games...far above. BUT....I don’t know how much I can take of these errant passes. Simple 5 meter pass, Musa go flub. It almost seems easier to make the pass than not.

I’ll say again. Musa has “it”. Whatever that “it” is. Think Amokachi in 94, Kanu in 96, Jay Jay in 98. It’s hard to explain, but from time to time (v Argentina in 14, v Iceland in 18), Musa plays as if the rest of his mates aren’t on the same planet. I know all his critics like to ignore that stuff but I’ve watched soccer long enough to know that sometimes, it’s really not about tactics. It’s about - as they say in America - making plays...and Musa can make plays. Most of our other players cannot. They need everything to be perfect and for the opposition to be inferior. Players like Musa and Osimhen don’t. And when you play an equivalent team, you just need a play maker. Also, there is nothing like speed that puts the fear of God in a defense.

But...it’s all these passes to nowhere he keeps playing I cannot stand.

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 Post subject: Re: AHMED MUSA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:23 am 
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Nigeria needs to stop selecting and fielding players based on emotion and sentiment. Ofcourse Musa is a professional football player and can still kick the ball and play better than the average player, but the question is; is he adding value to the team? His performance in the past 4 games says no. So then the question is, why is he in the team when he has not improved in 4 games?

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Last edited by 1naija on Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: AHMED MUSA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:37 am 
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deanotito wrote:
:???: :???: :???: :???:

I have never been the biggest Musa critic. Always felt his loudest critics underrated his speed and overrated his mistakes. After the 2018 WC, where Musa saved us from elimination at the hand of Iceland, I said I will never criticize Musa again. Not even the mild criticism which I used to do....

But....

Musa confounds me. He is still, to my eye, the fastest player on the team....and still retains this ability to rise above his peers in certain games...far above. BUT....I don’t know how much I can take of these errant passes. Simple 5 meter pass, Musa go flub. It almost seems easier to make the pass than not.

I’ll say again. Musa has “it”. Whatever that “it” is. Think Amokachi in 94, Kanu in 96, Jay Jay in 98. It’s hard to explain, but from time to time (v Argentina in 14, v Iceland in 18), Musa plays as if the rest of his mates aren’t on the same planet. I know all his critics like to ignore that stuff but I’ve watched soccer long enough to know that sometimes, it’s really not about tactics. It’s about - as they say in America - making plays...and Musa can make plays. Most of our other players cannot. They need everything to be perfect and for the opposition to be inferior. Players like Musa and Osimhen don’t. And when you play an equivalent team, you just need a play maker. Also, there is nothing like speed that puts the fear of God in a defense.

But...it’s all these passes to nowhere he keeps playing I cannot stand.


Musa should be a central striker or support striker. Nothing else. Play balls from deep into space for him and watch him rack up the goals.

Mbappe is the (much better skilled) French version of Musa, so he can operate from the flanks in addition to centrally, and see how the French used him. Deschamps is one intelligent fella.

Kpom on the "it" factor. Musa can rise to the occasion like no other Nigerian player. If we had just 2 more players like him we would have made at least the QFs in the last two WCs.

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 Post subject: Re: AHMED MUSA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:53 am 
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1naija wrote:
Nigeria needs to stop selecting and fielding players based on emotion and sentiment. Ofcource Musa is a professional football player and can still kick the ball and play better than the average player, but the question is; is he adding value to the team? His performance in the past 4 games says no. So then the question is, why is he in the team when he has not improved in 4 games?


This thing you call sentiment and emotion....I'm not sure what you mean. I don't support Musa for non-footballing reasons. Musa is the highest Nigerian goal scorer at the WC. That doesn't happen just because...and quite frankly, I have not seen any deterioration in his "game" all these years. He's still the same ol' Musa....but its that same ol' play that perplexes me. I just don't know

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 Post subject: Re: AHMED MUSA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:58 am 
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Scipio Africanus wrote:
deanotito wrote:
:???: :???: :???: :???:

I have never been the biggest Musa critic. Always felt his loudest critics underrated his speed and overrated his mistakes. After the 2018 WC, where Musa saved us from elimination at the hand of Iceland, I said I will never criticize Musa again. Not even the mild criticism which I used to do....

But....

Musa confounds me. He is still, to my eye, the fastest player on the team....and still retains this ability to rise above his peers in certain games...far above. BUT....I don’t know how much I can take of these errant passes. Simple 5 meter pass, Musa go flub. It almost seems easier to make the pass than not.

I’ll say again. Musa has “it”. Whatever that “it” is. Think Amokachi in 94, Kanu in 96, Jay Jay in 98. It’s hard to explain, but from time to time (v Argentina in 14, v Iceland in 18), Musa plays as if the rest of his mates aren’t on the same planet. I know all his critics like to ignore that stuff but I’ve watched soccer long enough to know that sometimes, it’s really not about tactics. It’s about - as they say in America - making plays...and Musa can make plays. Most of our other players cannot. They need everything to be perfect and for the opposition to be inferior. Players like Musa and Osimhen don’t. And when you play an equivalent team, you just need a play maker. Also, there is nothing like speed that puts the fear of God in a defense.

But...it’s all these passes to nowhere he keeps playing I cannot stand.


Musa should be a central striker or support striker. Nothing else. Play balls from deep into space for him and watch him rack up the goals.

Mbappe is the (much better skilled) French version of Musa, so he can operate from the flanks in addition to centrally, and see how the French used him. Deschamps is one intelligent fella.

Kpom on the "it" factor. Musa can rise to the occasion like no other Nigerian player. If we had just 2 more players like him we would have made at least the QFs in the last two WCs.


I don't think Musa would be a good central striker, but support striker could work. He needs space to run at a defense...being a central striker would deprive him of that.... And yes on the "it" factor....its what causes me so much confusion. If I saw great players in the Nigerian set up, I would say use Musa as a sub - when needed. But apart from Osimhen, no one on that team has Musa's "it" - as occasional as it may seem to show up. Its just that the boy is just so volatile in his play. His performances are either great or sub-par....I know this is an exaggeration, but I think most people would understand.

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 Post subject: Re: AHMED MUSA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:34 am 
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This post captures really well my feelings on Musa.

At his best, there's nothing like him on that team. Instinctive, rapid, with a ferocious shot.
In the box, he can often make the split second decision - like the chested pass to Ighalo for our equaliser against CAM in the last ANC.
On his day, he can be unplayable.

But man, his passing is woeful. And above example notwithstanding, he is rarely on the same wavelength with his attacking partners. I don't think he's been helped by years in Mickey Mouse teams.

Frustrating.

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 Post subject: Re: AHMED MUSA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:02 am 
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Musa needs to find a club at a good level and get his form back before being recalled to the SE squad.

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 Post subject: Re: AHMED MUSA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:17 am 
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waka-man wrote:
This post captures really well my feelings on Musa.

At his best, there's nothing like him on that team. Instinctive, rapid, with a ferocious shot.
In the box, he can often make the split second decision - like the chested pass to Ighalo for our equaliser against CAM in the last ANC.
On his day, he can be unplayable.

But man, his passing is woeful. And above example notwithstanding, he is rarely on the same wavelength with his attacking partners. I don't think he's been helped by years in Mickey Mouse teams.

Frustrating.


Yep. Musa has a very high ceiling. But also a pretty low floor. In that game versus Argentina in 14, it was essentially Musa v Messi. Nigeria’s only hope was Musa. None of the other players had the quality to compete. And that’s what I mean by it all. If you remove Musa, you remove your ability to compete when the chips are down.

Take Iheanacho for instance. Is he talented? Yes. Does he have an eye for goal? Yes. Is he a marksman? Yes. But Iheanacho isn’t getting you out of no dog fight. He’s not the one for that. Iwobi? No way. Simon? You must be cray cray. Chukwueze? Forget it

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 Post subject: Re: AHMED MUSA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:25 am 
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waka-man wrote:
This post captures really well my feelings on Musa.

At his best, there's nothing like him on that team. Instinctive, rapid, with a ferocious shot.
In the box, he can often make the split second decision - like the chested pass to Ighalo for our equaliser against CAM in the last ANC.
On his day, he can be unplayable.

But man, his passing is woeful. And above example notwithstanding, he is rarely on the same wavelength with his attacking partners. I don't think he's been helped by years in Mickey Mouse teams.

Frustrating.
This is his main problem.
Statistically, he had the lowest pass completion rate of the whole team at AFCON 2019.
Etebo had the highest.

Damunk wrote:
Is anyone aware that Etebo had the highest pass accuracy (87.6% ) of the entire SE team at AFCON?
Me sef, I shock. :shock:

Seems many of us underestimate Etebo, probably because he isnt a 'step-over' type of player.
Seems his pass accuracy wasn't only the highest in the SE team, BUT PROBABLY ONE OF THE HIGHEST IN THE ENTIRE COMPETITION.

https://www.beinsports.com/en/afcon-201 ... 216/227560


Other Key Players:
NDIDI 83%
COLLINS 82.9% (HAD HIGHEST ACCURACY OF LONG PASSES - 83.3%)
EKONG 81.2%
AWAZIEM 80.8%
AINA 80.7%
OMERUO 80.2%
MIKEL 78.9%
IWOBI 78.1%
CHUKWUEZE 76.1%
IGHALO 74.7%
MUSA 65.1%

Other High Profile AFCON Players
Achraf Hakimi (MOR) 85.1%
Wilfred Zaha (CIV) 84.9%
Thomas Partey (GHA) 81.1%
Sadio Mane (SEN) 78.9%
Khalidou Koulibaly (SEN) 76.9%
Nicolas Pepe (CIV) 76.5%
Riyadh Mahrez (ALG) 75.3%
Hakeem Ziyech (MOR) 74.4%
Mo Sallah (EGY) 69.4%

posting.php?mode=quote&f=1&p=5480861

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 Post subject: Re: AHMED MUSA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:02 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
waka-man wrote:
This post captures really well my feelings on Musa.

At his best, there's nothing like him on that team. Instinctive, rapid, with a ferocious shot.
In the box, he can often make the split second decision - like the chested pass to Ighalo for our equaliser against CAM in the last ANC.
On his day, he can be unplayable.

But man, his passing is woeful. And above example notwithstanding, he is rarely on the same wavelength with his attacking partners. I don't think he's been helped by years in Mickey Mouse teams.

Frustrating.
This is his main problem.
Statistically, he had the lowest pass completion rate of the whole team at AFCON 2019.
Etebo had the highest.

Damunk wrote:
Is anyone aware that Etebo had the highest pass accuracy (87.6% ) of the entire SE team at AFCON?
Me sef, I shock. :shock:

Seems many of us underestimate Etebo, probably because he isnt a 'step-over' type of player.
Seems his pass accuracy wasn't only the highest in the SE team, BUT PROBABLY ONE OF THE HIGHEST IN THE ENTIRE COMPETITION.

https://www.beinsports.com/en/afcon-201 ... 216/227560


Other Key Players:
NDIDI 83%
COLLINS 82.9% (HAD HIGHEST ACCURACY OF LONG PASSES - 83.3%)
EKONG 81.2%
AWAZIEM 80.8%
AINA 80.7%
OMERUO 80.2%
MIKEL 78.9%
IWOBI 78.1%
CHUKWUEZE 76.1%
IGHALO 74.7%
MUSA 65.1%

Other High Profile AFCON Players
Achraf Hakimi (MOR) 85.1%
Wilfred Zaha (CIV) 84.9%
Thomas Partey (GHA) 81.1%
Sadio Mane (SEN) 78.9%
Khalidou Koulibaly (SEN) 76.9%
Nicolas Pepe (CIV) 76.5%
Riyadh Mahrez (ALG) 75.3%
Hakeem Ziyech (MOR) 74.4%
Mo Sallah (EGY) 69.4%

posting.php?mode=quote&f=1&p=5480861

Musa is way below inconsistent and if he keeps tagging along he’ll only have his experience and captaincy as a selling point,I appreciate his 4 World Cup goals but there’s no point in trying to justify his continuous inclusion especially if there are other players that actually presently play for a club!

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 Post subject: Re: AHMED MUSA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:59 pm 
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...every good SE player, in recent memory, have been hounded into retirement, so I don't see Ahmed Musa to be last here.
As far as I am concerned he is a very good player to be on the national team, today.


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 Post subject: Re: AHMED MUSA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:06 pm 
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deanotito wrote:
1naija wrote:
Nigeria needs to stop selecting and fielding players based on emotion and sentiment. Ofcource Musa is a professional football player and can still kick the ball and play better than the average player, but the question is; is he adding value to the team? His performance in the past 4 games says no. So then the question is, why is he in the team when he has not improved in 4 games?


This thing you call sentiment and emotion....I'm not sure what you mean. I don't support Musa for non-footballing reasons. Musa is the highest Nigerian goal scorer at the WC. That doesn't happen just because...and quite frankly, I have not seen any deterioration in his "game" all these years. He's still the same ol' Musa....but its that same ol' play that perplexes me. I just don't know


You are talking about his record. I am talking about his current form and his selection to the current team. His current form does not warrant him to be called up for these games. I like Musa too, but if you listen to Pinnicks speech after the game, it seems his selection was based on his "love" for Nigeria and not his current form.

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 Post subject: Re: AHMED MUSA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:25 pm 
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Dammy wrote:
Musa needs to find a club at a good level and get his form back before being recalled to the SE squad.


Agreed.

There's got to be minimum criteria.

He needs to find a club.

If I am a player (Striker/forward) playing in a club and not being invited or invited and not being played for a clubless player I would wonder if the National Team is for our in-form players or for players based on what they did in the past.

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 Post subject: Re: AHMED MUSA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:08 pm 
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You guys are funny.

No other player has the "it factor" like Musa ?

Abeg give me a break.

What "it factor" ?

Not being able to make simple passes, killing virtually every attack he's been involved in going back to the 2019 afcon.

Chukwueze, Kalu, Osimehn, Iwobi, Etebo, all have more of an "it factor" than this clueless chicken.

All this talk of speed, I dont think he's even as fast as he used to be, and his speed is effectively useless the way it is applied.

I've said before, Musa only seems to shine against "Big teams"

Not because he is a big game player, but because "big teams" allow us space to counter attack and utilize his pace.

I've said before that Musa is useless in the African game, where teams sit back and do not bomb forward.

Musa has always had a piss poor AFCON, both in 2013 and 2019 he absolutely sucked. Keshi even benched him.

In fact I can't remember one good game on the African continent that Musa had. Not one.

Speed and no brains or technical ability will not help you in Africa.

Don't know why Rohr cannot figure this out.

People continue to live in the past with Musa. He is not it, and his ceiling is definitely not high. He will NEVER be able to make simple passes. He will always be a detriment to the team unless he is running into acres of empty space where his decision making and lack of technical ability will not necessarily hold him back.

I have nothing against Musa personally, in fact he even seems like a really nice and chill guy, and I like the fact he was very angry on the touch lines. You certainly cannot question the man's passion.

But unless he is in top shape and we are playing a SUPERIOR TEAM, that will allow us space to counter, he is absolutely useless.

And I question his diminishing relevance with the likes of Lookman soon to join the fold.

I will not drop any of Chukwueze, Lookman, Kalu, or Simon for Musa, even if he is in tip top shape.

Those guys are all pretty much just as fast, but offer far more in other areas.


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 Post subject: Re: AHMED MUSA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:19 pm 
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deanotito wrote:
:???: :???: :???: :???:

I have never been the biggest Musa critic. Always felt his loudest critics underrated his speed and overrated his mistakes. After the 2018 WC, where Musa saved us from elimination at the hand of Iceland, I said I will never criticize Musa again. Not even the mild criticism which I used to do....

But....

Musa confounds me. He is still, to my eye, the fastest player on the team....and still retains this ability to rise above his peers in certain games...far above. BUT....I don’t know how much I can take of these errant passes. Simple 5 meter pass, Musa go flub. It almost seems easier to make the pass than not.

I’ll say again. Musa has “it”. Whatever that “it” is. Think Amokachi in 94, Kanu in 96, Jay Jay in 98. It’s hard to explain, but from time to time (v Argentina in 14, v Iceland in 18), Musa plays as if the rest of his mates aren’t on the same planet. I know all his critics like to ignore that stuff but I’ve watched soccer long enough to know that sometimes, it’s really not about tactics. It’s about - as they say in America - making plays...and Musa can make plays. Most of our other players cannot. They need everything to be perfect and for the opposition to be inferior. Players like Musa and Osimhen don’t. And when you play an equivalent team, you just need a play maker. Also, there is nothing like speed that puts the fear of God in a defense.

But...it’s all these passes to nowhere he keeps playing I cannot stand.


I utterly agree with you. I just think that he was match rusty. I expect him to recover gradually to his old form after finding a good club soon.


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 Post subject: Re: AHMED MUSA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:29 pm 
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deanotito wrote:
:???: :???: :???: :???:

I have never been the biggest Musa critic. Always felt his loudest critics underrated his speed and overrated his mistakes. After the 2018 WC, where Musa saved us from elimination at the hand of Iceland, I said I will never criticize Musa again. Not even the mild criticism which I used to do....

But....

Musa confounds me. He is still, to my eye, the fastest player on the team....and still retains this ability to rise above his peers in certain games...far above. BUT....I don’t know how much I can take of these errant passes. Simple 5 meter pass, Musa go flub. It almost seems easier to make the pass than not.

I’ll say again. Musa has “it”. Whatever that “it” is. Think Amokachi in 94, Kanu in 96, Jay Jay in 98. It’s hard to explain, but from time to time (v Argentina in 14, v Iceland in 18), Musa plays as if the rest of his mates aren’t on the same planet. I know all his critics like to ignore that stuff but I’ve watched soccer long enough to know that sometimes, it’s really not about tactics. It’s about - as they say in America - making plays...and Musa can make plays. Most of our other players cannot. They need everything to be perfect and for the opposition to be inferior. Players like Musa and Osimhen don’t. And when you play an equivalent team, you just need a play maker. Also, there is nothing like speed that puts the fear of God in a defense.

But...it’s all these passes to nowhere he keeps playing I cannot stand.


Dean,

I agree with the above but I am beginning to doubt it.

TBH, I think that Musa is beginning to show the signs of a player nearing retirement ... being out of step with his team mates, etc. Yet, his influence in the friendly v Tunisia showed ... an assist and then earning a pk. But those moments are becoming rare .... In the main, I am willing to bet that what we are seeing now is a player fast reaching retirement.

This is small fry. Many other issues will burst out in the open after Rohr is gone whenever that is. There are claims of preferential treatment going on, claims of not listening to certain suggestions, etc. However, as long as Rohr is at the helm and the team is on course, non of that will be out in the media. However, it will all change when Rohr is out. BET ON IT.

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 Post subject: Re: AHMED MUSA
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:23 am 
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iworo wrote:
deanotito wrote:
:???: :???: :???: :???:

I have never been the biggest Musa critic. Always felt his loudest critics underrated his speed and overrated his mistakes. After the 2018 WC, where Musa saved us from elimination at the hand of Iceland, I said I will never criticize Musa again. Not even the mild criticism which I used to do....

But....

Musa confounds me. He is still, to my eye, the fastest player on the team....and still retains this ability to rise above his peers in certain games...far above. BUT....I don’t know how much I can take of these errant passes. Simple 5 meter pass, Musa go flub. It almost seems easier to make the pass than not.

I’ll say again. Musa has “it”. Whatever that “it” is. Think Amokachi in 94, Kanu in 96, Jay Jay in 98. It’s hard to explain, but from time to time (v Argentina in 14, v Iceland in 18), Musa plays as if the rest of his mates aren’t on the same planet. I know all his critics like to ignore that stuff but I’ve watched soccer long enough to know that sometimes, it’s really not about tactics. It’s about - as they say in America - making plays...and Musa can make plays. Most of our other players cannot. They need everything to be perfect and for the opposition to be inferior. Players like Musa and Osimhen don’t. And when you play an equivalent team, you just need a play maker. Also, there is nothing like speed that puts the fear of God in a defense.

But...it’s all these passes to nowhere he keeps playing I cannot stand.


I utterly agree with you. I just think that he was match rusty. I expect him to recover gradually to his old form after finding a good club soon.

But the Nigerian National Shouldn’t be a place for clubless players to recover and find their form!

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 Post subject: Re: AHMED MUSA
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:47 am 
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Eaglezbeak wrote:
But the Nigerian National Shouldn’t be a place for clubless players to recover and find their form!

......SE was the place for 3rd and 4th division players to enhance their careers?

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 Post subject: Re: AHMED MUSA
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:24 am 
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fabio wrote:
Eaglezbeak wrote:
But the Nigerian National Shouldn’t be a place for clubless players to recover and find their form!

......SE was the place for 3rd and 4th division players to enhance their careers?

And clubless captains who’ve retired from playing in the Saudi league (off the bench) can it get any worse?

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 Post subject: Re: AHMED MUSA
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:37 pm 
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Eaglezbeak wrote:
fabio wrote:
Eaglezbeak wrote:
But the Nigerian National Shouldn’t be a place for clubless players to recover and find their form!

......SE was the place for 3rd and 4th division players to enhance their careers?

And clubless captains who’ve retired from playing in the Saudi league (off the bench) can it get any worse?
...and what's wrong with that?
Nigeria is starved of experienced foreign exposed players, home based players, that we keep harnessing foreign born players who have never set foot on Nigeria soil.
Ahmed Musa is experienced, vast, and have been there.
His presence will teach those newbies, until the day they learn to stand on their own 2 feet and play.
In the old days, some Nigeria clubs will bring back retired/resigned player from abroad to play crucial club match.


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