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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:51 pm 
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Any time Akwa United play Dakkada, I find myself thinking we need a version of the type of rules they have in Spain, to stop two (or more) teams owned by the same entity from competing in the same division.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:57 pm 
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The Eagle wrote:
Any time Akwa United play Dakkada, I find myself thinking we need a version of the type of rules they have in Spain, to stop two (or more) teams owned by the same entity from competing in the same division.



You are correct. Having one entity own more than a club, especially at the top level, can create problems.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:41 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
The Eagle wrote:
Any time Akwa United play Dakkada, I find myself thinking we need a version of the type of rules they have in Spain, to stop two (or more) teams owned by the same entity from competing in the same division.



You are correct. Having one entity own more than a club, especially at the top level, can create problems.

Maybe they should adopt the Rivers state model where Sharks and Dolphins merged to form Rivers United.
On another note, I have always wondered how Abia state is able to maintain two teams in the NPFL!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:43 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:41 am 
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Any update? :mrgreen:
I wan check relegation zone o.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:14 pm 
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YemiBrazil wrote:
Any update? :mrgreen:
I wan check relegation zone o.

:lol: Here is the update. Happy?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:35 am 
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ukwala wrote:
YemiBrazil wrote:
Any update? :mrgreen:
I wan check relegation zone o.

:lol: Here is the update. Happy?


Is Sooting #21 on the table? :sneaky:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:17 pm 
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This year's league is already very exciting and the league table is really sweeting my belle :D

Happy New Year Uncles Ukwala, Gotti, Cito & co 8-)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:18 am 
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YemiBrazil wrote:
This year's league is already very exciting and the league table is really sweeting my belle :D

Happy New Year Uncles Ukwala, Gotti, Cito & co 8-)

Happy new year Comrade YemiB. Glad that the Professional league is sweeting your belle, senior gist is guaranteed to do that.
Could we now have updates from the Amateur league please? :taunt: :taunt:


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:54 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:13 pm 
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Nassarawa United in early lead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa97-736ewI

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:30 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:16 pm 
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FULL-TIME SCORES

Katsina Utd 2-0 Adamawa Utd
Nasarawa Utd 1-1 Kano Pillars
Plateau Utd 3-0 Heartland
Enyimba 1-0 Wikki
Rivers Utd 3-0 Kwara Utd
Jigawa GS 0-1 Rangers
MFM 1-0 Sunshine Stars
Lobi 3-0 Wolves
FC Ifeanyiubah 0-1 Dakkada


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:53 pm 
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ukwala wrote:
FULL-TIME SCORES

Katsina Utd 2-0 Adamawa Utd
Nasarawa Utd 1-1 Kano Pillars
Plateau Utd 3-0 Heartland
Enyimba 1-0 Wikki
Rivers Utd 3-0 Kwara Utd
Jigawa GS 0-1 Rangers
MFM 1-0 Sunshine Stars
Lobi 3-0 Wolves
FC Ifeanyiubah 0-1 Dakkada


Top of the table! Lets effing Go!!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:29 pm 
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ukwala wrote:
FULL-TIME SCORES

Katsina Utd 2-0 Adamawa Utd
Nasarawa Utd 1-1 Kano Pillars
Plateau Utd 3-0 Heartland
Enyimba 1-0 Wikki
Rivers Utd 3-0 Kwara Utd
Jigawa GS 0-1 Rangers
MFM 1-0 Sunshine Stars
Lobi 3-0 Wolves
FC Ifeanyiubah 0-1 Dakkada


ukwala,

I bet you are happy with that result. For me, my focus is actually seeing if the results obtained in the league can approach normality.

I once did a statistically check to verify if the results in the NPFL were normal. It turned out that that they were far from normality. This check was against the EPL, PSL and if I remember correctly two or three other leagues. While the other leagues were within reasonable bounds in terms of home and away wins, the NPFL was completely off indicating abnormalities.

This is a major problem.

In my view, therefore, increasing results like away wins can rectify some of this and make results more realistic. If not, we will continue to see abnormalities where the top three teams are just only a few points away from the bottom three teams because of 'win at home, at all costs.'

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:10 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
ukwala wrote:
FULL-TIME SCORES

Katsina Utd 2-0 Adamawa Utd
Nasarawa Utd 1-1 Kano Pillars
Plateau Utd 3-0 Heartland
Enyimba 1-0 Wikki
Rivers Utd 3-0 Kwara Utd
Jigawa GS 0-1 Rangers
MFM 1-0 Sunshine Stars
Lobi 3-0 Wolves
FC Ifeanyiubah 0-1 Dakkada


ukwala,

I bet you are happy with that result. For me, my focus is actually seeing if the results obtained in the league can approach normality.

I once did a statistically check to verify if the results in the NPFL were normal. It turned out that that they were far from normality. This check was against the EPL, PSL and if I remember correctly two or three other leagues. While the other leagues were within reasonable bounds in terms of home and away wins, the NPFL was completely off indicating abnormalities.

This is a major problem.

In my view, therefore, increasing results like away wins can rectify some of this and make results more realistic. If not, we will continue to see abnormalities where the top three teams are just only a few points away from the bottom three teams because of 'win at home, at all costs.'

EII,

Yes, I am happy with the result and can only hope that there are many more of such results. Bringing back that trophy to Enugu would not be such a bad idea.

While I agree that ‘win at all cost’ mentality contributes to the disproportionate number of home wins in the league, it is by no means the only contributory factor. There are other factors.

Fatigue is another major factor. Clubs travel by road over long distances on unsafe and insecure roads, in barely comfortable buses, very close to match time (to save accommodation cost and all). Many a time, they arrive the match venue on the day of the match and depart soon after.

Again, most clubs depend on government subvention for their existence as gate takings and merchandising don’t bring in much to their coffers. This means that all, or most, clubs run on about the same funding ballpark and are able to sign the same quality of players. This may be debatable but what I am driving at is that most clubs have approximate parity in squad strength and there are really no exceptional clubs. This contributes to the bunching together on the league table. There is no Manchester City that buys all the super stars and a Sheffield United that can only buy scrubs.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:47 pm 
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ukwala wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
ukwala wrote:
FULL-TIME SCORES

Katsina Utd 2-0 Adamawa Utd
Nasarawa Utd 1-1 Kano Pillars
Plateau Utd 3-0 Heartland
Enyimba 1-0 Wikki
Rivers Utd 3-0 Kwara Utd
Jigawa GS 0-1 Rangers
MFM 1-0 Sunshine Stars
Lobi 3-0 Wolves
FC Ifeanyiubah 0-1 Dakkada


ukwala,

I bet you are happy with that result. For me, my focus is actually seeing if the results obtained in the league can approach normality.

I once did a statistically check to verify if the results in the NPFL were normal. It turned out that that they were far from normality. This check was against the EPL, PSL and if I remember correctly two or three other leagues. While the other leagues were within reasonable bounds in terms of home and away wins, the NPFL was completely off indicating abnormalities.

This is a major problem.

In my view, therefore, increasing results like away wins can rectify some of this and make results more realistic. If not, we will continue to see abnormalities where the top three teams are just only a few points away from the bottom three teams because of 'win at home, at all costs.'

EII,

Yes, I am happy with the result and can only hope that there are many more of such results. Bringing back that trophy to Enugu would not be such a bad idea.

While I agree that ‘win at all cost’ mentality contributes to the disproportionate number of home wins in the league, it is by no means the only contributory factor. There are other factors.

Fatigue is another major factor. Clubs travel by road over long distances on unsafe and insecure roads, in barely comfortable buses, very close to match time (to save accommodation cost and all). Many a time, they arrive the match venue on the day of the match and depart soon after.

Again, most clubs depend on government subvention for their existence as gate takings and merchandising don’t bring in much to their coffers. This means that all, or most, clubs run on about the same funding ballpark and are able to sign the same quality of players. This may be debatable but what I am driving at is that most clubs have approximate parity in squad strength and there are really no exceptional clubs. This contributes to the bunching together on the league table. There is no Manchester City that buys all the super stars and a Sheffield United that can only buy scrubs.


ukwala,

I agree with the contributing factors that you have mentioned. However, while one can argue that these contributory factors have been heightened in recent times, bear in mind that these distances did not emerge in today's Nigeria. They had always been there and part of the analysis that I referred to earlier compared results with results from the same league in the 1980s.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:15 pm 
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ukwala wrote:
Again, most clubs depend on government subvention for their existence as gate takings and merchandising don’t bring in much to their coffers. This means that all, or most, clubs run on about the same funding ballpark and are able to sign the same quality of players. This may be debatable but what I am driving at is that most clubs have approximate parity in squad strength and there are really no exceptional clubs. This contributes to the bunching together on the league table. There is no Manchester City that buys all the super stars and a Sheffield United that can only buy scrubs.


I read often, but I don't post as much on the forum as I used to .... and my desire to engage in arguments on the 'net is zero these days. But some time ago Yujam opened a thread questioning whether the Nigerian LEAGUE was weaker than other African LEAGUES because of the poor results our clubs get in Africa.

What I wanted to tell him (but didn't :) ) is that it isn't a question of LEAGUES but one of CLUBS. In most countries in Africa, there is one or two or occasionally three clubs that concentrate all of the talent, the money, and a disproportionate number of the fans (i.e. like Celtic and Rangers, they have fans from everywhere in the country). Back in the day when all African internationals played in Africa, there would be a team with 80% of the national team, while the second team had the remaining 20% .... which you still see to a certain extent with Al Ahly in Egypt or Esperance in Tunisia.

Nigeria has NEVER had a club dominate the league to the extent that ASEC Mimosas, for example, dominated Cote d'Ivoire. If you look at the history of the Ghanaian league, it is like nearly every trophy since 1957 was won by either Hearts or Kotoko, with Goldfields (by a variety of names) accounting for five or so. The closest we came to this type of thing was when that governor of Abia, for his own political purposes, hired the Homebased Eagles to represent Enyimba on the continent, which resulted in Nigeria's only two African Champions Club/League trophies .... and that didn't really last, as there is no economic reason why Aba (with all due respect) would be the home of a continental giant club.

Where you should theoretically find such clubs, Lagos and Abuja, no such club exists, and (with due respect to fans of teams like Stores) no such club has ever existed. Lagos and Abuja might be unique in Africa, among both serious footballing nations and "minnows" for the lack of any giant clubs. Tanzania and Kenya might be minnows, but Gor Mahia, AFC Leopards (both Nairobi), Young Africans and Simba FC (both Dar Es Salaam) do not have equivalents in Lagos or Abuja. The fact that our commercial and political capitals are split does not factor, as you can see Raja in Casablanca and FAR in Rabat (Morocco), or Sundowns in Tshwane and the duo of Pirates and Chiefs in Johannesburg (South Africa) .... but in Lagos there is Fashola cutting a Manchester United birthday cake, while there is footballing tumbleweed rolling through the street of Abuja.

On the one hand, I like it .... it would be boring if there were only ever two winners (like Ghana or Egypt) or one winner (ASEC's multi-year winning streak). I know what it feels like to support a team that won the Nigerian League and Cup, an experience I wouldn't have had if our League was dominated by Lagos United and Abuja City.....

.... but on the other hand, the parity in Nigeria means our clubs in African competition have less resources than key African opponents in every considerable way, without factoring in the mismanagement issue. Indeed, while I enjoyed watching the team I supported in the African Cup of Champion Clubs, the tournament was ultimately won by a North African club. Shocking, right? :lol:

PS: Did I say "watching"? I meant "listening" on a battery-powered radio. There was no NEPA, and no live television coverage even if NEPA was available.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:34 pm 
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The Eagle wrote:
ukwala wrote:
Again, most clubs depend on government subvention for their existence as gate takings and merchandising don’t bring in much to their coffers. This means that all, or most, clubs run on about the same funding ballpark and are able to sign the same quality of players. This may be debatable but what I am driving at is that most clubs have approximate parity in squad strength and there are really no exceptional clubs. This contributes to the bunching together on the league table. There is no Manchester City that buys all the super stars and a Sheffield United that can only buy scrubs.


I read often, but I don't post as much on the forum as I used to .... and my desire to engage in arguments on the 'net is zero these days. But some time ago Yujam opened a thread questioning whether the Nigerian LEAGUE was weaker than other African LEAGUES because of the poor results our clubs get in Africa.

What I wanted to tell him (but didn't :) ) is that it isn't a question of LEAGUES but one of CLUBS. In most countries in Africa, there is one or two or occasionally three clubs that concentrate all of the talent, the money, and a disproportionate number of the fans (i.e. like Celtic and Rangers, they have fans from everywhere in the country). Back in the day when all African internationals played in Africa, there would be a team with 80% of the national team, while the second team had the remaining 20% .... which you still see to a certain extent with Al Ahly in Egypt or Esperance in Tunisia.

Nigeria has NEVER had a club dominate the league to the extent that ASEC Mimosas, for example, dominated Cote d'Ivoire. If you look at the history of the Ghanaian league, it is like nearly every trophy since 1957 was won by either Hearts or Kotoko, with Goldfields (by a variety of names) accounting for five or so. The closest we came to this type of thing was when that governor of Abia, for his own political purposes, hired the Homebased Eagles to represent Enyimba on the continent, which resulted in Nigeria's only two African Champions Club/League trophies .... and that didn't really last, as there is no economic reason why Aba (with all due respect) would be the home of a continental giant club.

Where you should theoretically find such clubs, Lagos and Abuja, no such club exists, and (with due respect to fans of teams like Stores) no such club has ever existed. Lagos and Abuja might be unique in Africa, among both serious footballing nations and "minnows" for the lack of any giant clubs. Tanzania and Kenya might be minnows, but Gor Mahia, AFC Leopards (both Nairobi), Young Africans and Simba FC (both Dar Es Salaam) do not have equivalents in Lagos or Abuja. The fact that our commercial and political capitals are split does not factor, as you can see Raja in Casablanca and FAR in Rabat (Morocco), or Sundowns in Tshwane and the duo of Pirates and Chiefs in Johannesburg (South Africa) .... but in Lagos there is Fashola cutting a Manchester United birthday cake, while there is footballing tumbleweed rolling through the street of Abuja.

On the one hand, I like it .... it would be boring if there were only ever two winners (like Ghana or Egypt) or one winner (ASEC's multi-year winning streak). I know what it feels like to support a team that won the Nigerian League and Cup, an experience I wouldn't have had if our League was dominated by Lagos United and Abuja City.....

.... but on the other hand, the parity in Nigeria means our clubs in African competition have less resources than key African opponents in every considerable way, without factoring in the mismanagement issue. Indeed, while I enjoyed watching the team I supported in the African Cup of Champion Clubs, the tournament was ultimately won by a North African club. Shocking, right? :lol:

PS: Did I say "watching"? I meant "listening" on a battery-powered radio. There was no NEPA, and no live television coverage even if NEPA was available.


The Eagle,

Interesting take. You and ukwala really should contribute more. These days what we get are just people providing little depth to the discourse.

The concentration of championship winning clubs in capital cities in several African countries actually existed in Nigeria for a long period. At the time, this basically reflected the movement of labor to employment which is plentiful in the big cities. I suppose that explains the situation in other African countries as well.

If you notice, that domination of the capital city was disintegrated following the Nigerian civil war. You can confirm that with the Challenge Cup records of Nigeria pre-1970 and post-1970. But it would be simplistic to argue that the above was the only reason. What also occurred at the time was the state governments becoming involved in financing clubs. When the state governments became intricately involved supported by the rise of clubs instead of city selected in the early 1970s, you then had clubs like Rangers (se also result of post-war beliefs), Shooting Stars, Insurance, etc. The effect of state control of clubs remain with us, largely, today. This is why clubs/players are not concentrated in Lagos or Abuja.

Just my take.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:03 pm 
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EII,

While it was true that most or all of Nigeria's biggest clubs were in Lagos at a point in time, none of them was really a prohibitive giant of the sort you see elsewhere in Africa. The fact that many of them are now defunct or "irrelevant" is not something that would ever happen to true giants. In my post, I mentioned that Stores, for all its popularity, was never really an "Al Ahly" or "Zamalek" .... I could add that the fact that Stores just randomly disappeared, and for a reason as silly as two siblings quarrelling, which are two things you would not see happening at ASEC or even TP Mazembe (which is not even in a capital city).

We may not hear much about Simba FC and Young Africans, but their fans all over Tanzania keep the clubs' administration on their toes in a way that no set of fans in Nigeria do today in this era of English League dominance .... in fact, very recently, a European manager at Simba got fed up with fan complaints, and publicly called them "monkeys" or something to that effect. He was sacked .... only to be hired by a South African club, who were then forced to cancel the contract under pressure from their own fans who'd been clued in by the Tanzanian fans. These are not the sort of fans who would accept being told that Simba doesn't exist anymore because Ogolo is arguing with Mrs Ogolo.

Come to think of it, even BCC Lions of Gboko doesn't really exist anymore .... and while I do believe Aliko Dangote (the last "owner" of BCC Lions) is entitled to do what he wants with his companies and his money, it gets on my nerves when I hear Nigerians call for him to buy Arsenal, instead of a polite dialogue about why he didn't do with BCC Lions what Patrice Motsepe did with Sundowns, or Moise Katumbi did with T.P. Mazembe. If I recall correctly, Mazembe went on to appear twice in the final of the World Club Cup.

PS: By the way, the European manager's response to being accused of being a racist was to say he had been coaching in Africa for ten years .... which .... as a counterargument .... is .... meaningless. Heck, even after calling black people monkeys, he still nearly got another high profile job in Africa. Lets face facts, a lot of the African football administrators who hire people like him are themselves autophobic racists, but that is an argument for another day.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:16 pm 
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The Eagle,


Yea, good point. Sure no Nigerian club can ever be compared to the likes of the clubs that you mentioned. The point I sought to make, however, is why Nigeria ended up without any major clubs (such as those you pointed to) in the capital city.

I do think that because Nigerian clubs developed differently compared to those clubs that you mentioned, it is difficult to expect the Nigerian clubs to achieve like Mazembes or Ahly. Several of the clubs you mentioned are strengthened by community involvement in their governance. This is starkly different rom what you find from any of the Nigerian clubs, which are essentially state-owned entities. To make masters worse, this ownership structure has a stranglehold on football development in Nigeria. But to be correct, several of the African countries you mention suffer also, to varying extents, from state countrol of football even though the state's fangs may not directly impact some of the key clubs such as those that you identified.

In recent times, people have wondered how best to overcome these problems that we discuss here. I wonder what your views are as per elite football in African countries such as Nigeria.

The Eagle wrote:
EII,

While it was true that most or all of Nigeria's biggest clubs were in Lagos at a point in time, none of them was really a prohibitive giant of the sort you see elsewhere in Africa. The fact that many of them are now defunct or "irrelevant" is not something that would ever happen to true giants. In my post, I mentioned that Stores, for all its popularity, was never really an "Al Ahly" or "Zamalek" .... I could add that the fact that Stores just randomly disappeared, and for a reason as silly as two siblings quarrelling, which are two things you would not see happening at ASEC or even TP Mazembe (which is not even in a capital city).

We may not hear much about Simba FC and Young Africans, but their fans all over Tanzania keep the clubs' administration on their toes in a way that no set of fans in Nigeria do today in this era of English League dominance .... in fact, very recently, a European manager at Simba got fed up with fan complaints, and publicly called them "monkeys" or something to that effect. He was sacked .... only to be hired by a South African club, who were then forced to cancel the contract under pressure from their own fans who'd been clued in by the Tanzanian fans. These are not the sort of fans who would accept being told that Simba doesn't exist anymore because Ogolo is arguing with Mrs Ogolo.

Come to think of it, even BCC Lions of Gboko doesn't really exist anymore .... and while I do believe Aliko Dangote (the last "owner" of BCC Lions) is entitled to do what he wants with his companies and his money, it gets on my nerves when I hear Nigerians call for him to buy Arsenal, instead of a polite dialogue about why he didn't do with BCC Lions what Patrice Motsepe did with Sundowns, or Moise Katumbi did with T.P. Mazembe. If I recall correctly, Mazembe went on to appear twice in the final of the World Club Cup.

PS: By the way, the European manager's response to being accused of being a racist was to say he had been coaching in Africa for ten years .... which .... as a counterargument .... is .... meaningless. Heck, even after calling black people monkeys, he still nearly got another high profile job in Africa. Lets face facts, a lot of the African football administrators who hire people like him are themselves autophobic racists, but that is an argument for another day.

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The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:20 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:20 am
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Enugu Rangers, on their way to Lagos for the league game against MFM this weekend, stop at the spot along the Asaba-Benin highway where striker Ifeanyi George died in a car accident almost a year ago to say a few prayers.

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Picture Credit: Rangers Twitter Page

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