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 Post subject: Re: Awoniyi hangs!!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:15 pm 
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Posts: 14651
Rohr has stated that SE will not change their style of play for anyone.

That is fine.

Rohr gave Onuachu plenty of chances to see if he will fit into the system. Onuachu has failed miserably.

So if Rohr can see this and yet he continues to call him up and keep trying to fit a round peg into a square hole, then that will be on Rohr.

After Onuachu's stinker against Algeria, he was not used against Tunisia, he then got 12 minutes in the first game against Sierra Leone, and despite Osimehns injury did not play a minute of the second match against Sierra Leone, with Rohr preferring Iheanacho, whom Rohr has also had issues with in the past.

He didn't even bring Onuachu on as a last ditch attempt to win the 0-0 match. If I were a betting man, I would say that Rohr is done with Onuachu, unless there are some forces doing some serious lobbying for the boy.


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 Post subject: Re: Awoniyi hangs!!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:24 pm 
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Posts: 8194
Prof,
To build off the great responses offered by 1Naija and VE, in this day and age, Nigeria cannot afford to waste its time on a player that has refused to adapt his game to the needs of the SE, most especially when their are a lot of other capable kids kicking on the door to get in.
The likes of Awoniyi, Sadiq Umar, Ike Ugbo, Maja, Dessers and a host of others who are actively jostling to be recognized at the international level. Yet, you are advocating we spend time grooming this 26 yr old guy who has pretty much fumbled all the opportunities given him. There are other young guns who are on the horizon - Zirkee, Terem Moffi, Arokodare, players who are a year or two away from being true candidates for consideration.
And as 1Naija alluded to, yes, Onuachu IS the problem, not the coach, considering his inability to adapt to the SE style of play. Same was with Agali, who was very limited and was one dimensional, thus leading to his being forced to make way for a player in a much lower league (Maccabi Haifa - Israeli League, vs Schalke - Bundesliga) named Yakubu Aiyegbeni.
Lest we forget also, Onuachu is a third or fourth backup striker in the SE.
Enugu II wrote:
Otitokoro,

The problem here, though, is you seem to think the player is the problem. Have you considered the possibility that the coach may well be the problem?

Why keep inviting this player and then fail to design the very plays that have made him successful at his club? What is the point?

The Manager, Gernot Rohr, stated clearly that the SE will not change its style for a player. If that is the case, so why keep inviting Paul? In my view, this is the failure of the manager and not the player.

We have had a player like Onuachu in the past. His name was Victor Agali. Clumsy as they come with the ball at his feet but he excelled in the air. Guess what? Shuaibu Amodu made a successful use of this player by designing plays for him.

Why can't Rohr do the same. Is it beyond him?



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 Post subject: Re: Awoniyi hangs!!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:41 pm 
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Location: Super Eagles Homeland
In my view, your comparison of Onuachu with other strikers gravely misses the point. By gravely, I mean every letter of that word. The rest of the strikers you mentioned offer nothing special. As for Onuachu, he clearly offers something in the air that we do not have. That was exactly why I compared him to Agali. Onuachu is nothing special with the ball at his feet. His ticket is what he can do in the air, just like Agali. We do not have that presently. Many nations have used a striker like that to devastating effect. We see the SE waste free kick after free kick. Then we heard Rohr indicate he will not pander to Onuachu's strengths. Then, why the hell invite Onuachu? In my view, there is nothing special about Onuachu besides that obvious advantage, which is unique.

Onuachu when he gets in the game, you still watch the wingers dribble the ball into the middle of the goal, negating an advantage staring them in the face! This happens time after time. If Rohr cannot design a better approach, then simply do not invite the guy any longer. What is the point of his invitation, if I may ask? As you pointed out, there are several other strikers who can do better with the way the team currently plays. Dessers, Maja, etc but none of those offer what Onuachu brings to the table i.e. aerial dominance. THAT IS THE KEY. If a Manager claims the team will not adapt to obvious individual advantage a player has then I got to be concerned about the acumen of the manager. There are managers who will astutely insert a free kick specialist into a game when a team is getting a lot of set pieces. There are others who will insert a dribbler in when a defense is compact and difficult to break down, there are those who will insert a ball winner when an opposing team is dominating possession. Those decisions demonstrate the astuteness of a manager. Therefore, the fact is that Onuachu offers a unique advantage that very few players offer Nigeria ought to be something to harness and not something to gloss over as Rohr demonstrates in the quote below. That speaks VOLUMES. It is up to Nigeria to harness that Onuachu advantage or simply not invite the guy.

But to be clear, Onuahu's lack of productivity for the SE ,if you have been watching closely, is exactly due to how the team and Manager wishes to play. That is squarely at Rohr's table. No where else. Make no mistake about that. The Manager ought to be incisive and cerebral with the ability to take advantage of the talent in front of him. Rohr has not done that. IO will not mince words in pointing out what ought to be clear.

Quote:
Rohr: Osimhen big miss, but Super Eagles won’t change for Onuachu
Score Nigeria Reporter by Score Nigeria Reporter October 8, 2020 4:52 pm
https://scorenigeria.com.ng/rohr-osimhen-big-miss-but-super-eagles-wont-change-for-onuachu/

Coach Gernot Rohr has admitted Victor Osimhen will be a big miss for the Super Eagles in forthcoming friendlies against Algeria and Tunisia, but the team will not change their style to suit the direct replacement of the Napoli striker, Paul Onuachu.

“Osimhen is a big absence because he has scored goals with us and also doing well with his new club, he leads out attack, we will miss him,” admitted Rohr.

“We will miss him, we regret his absence but we can’t change it.

“Onuachu is his replacement, he’s scoring a lot of goals at Genk, but a team can’t adapt to a player. He has to adapt to the team.

“We will not change our game only for him by playing long balls because he’s good in the air. We will play football.

“He has to adapt to the team.

“He can help us to replace Osimhen.”


Otitokoro wrote:
Prof,
To build off the great responses offered by 1Naija and VE, in this day and age, Nigeria cannot afford to waste its time on a player that has refused to adapt his game to the needs of the SE, most especially when their are a lot of other capable kids kicking on the door to get in.
The likes of Awoniyi, Sadiq Umar, Ike Ugbo, Maja, Dessers and a host of others who are actively jostling to be recognized at the international level. Yet, you are advocating we spend time grooming this 26 yr old guy who has pretty much fumbled all the opportunities given him. There are other young guns who are on the horizon - Zirkee, Terem Moffi, Arokodare, players who are a year or two away from being true candidates for consideration.
And as 1Naija alluded to, yes, Onuachu IS the problem, not the coach, considering his inability to adapt to the SE style of play. Same was with Agali, who was very limited and was one dimensional, thus leading to his being forced to make way for a player in a much lower league (Maccabi Haifa - Israeli League, vs Schalke - Bundesliga) named Yakubu Aiyegbeni.
Lest we forget also, Onuachu is a third or fourth backup striker in the SE.
Enugu II wrote:
Otitokoro,

The problem here, though, is you seem to think the player is the problem. Have you considered the possibility that the coach may well be the problem?

Why keep inviting this player and then fail to design the very plays that have made him successful at his club? What is the point?

The Manager, Gernot Rohr, stated clearly that the SE will not change its style for a player. If that is the case, so why keep inviting Paul? In my view, this is the failure of the manager and not the player.

We have had a player like Onuachu in the past. His name was Victor Agali. Clumsy as they come with the ball at his feet but he excelled in the air. Guess what? Shuaibu Amodu made a successful use of this player by designing plays for him.

Why can't Rohr do the same. Is it beyond him?


_________________
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics


Last edited by Enugu II on Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Awoniyi hangs!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:21 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 7:02 pm
Posts: 8194
Even though and according to you, the other strikers mentioned offer nothing special, they still are quicker and are decent with the ball at their feet. That is still one important asset that this fellow lacks and I will gladly take that over whatever Onuachu has to offer.
And yes, we do have a MUCH better header of the ball in Osimhen. His climb authority on crosses is just phenomenal for a 6'2" striker. Onuachu, at 6'7" does not have the elevation that Osimhen has. Onuachu is not fit to wipe the sweat off the brow of Agali's forehead, when it comes to SE performance. Agali had 5 goals in 12 caps - mostly scored from headers. This guy has a goal in 10, and has yet to score a header. So, he has offered the SE absolutely nothing with regards his so called best asset which you refer to.
Enugu II wrote:
In my view, your comparison of Onuachu with other strikers gravely misses the point. By gravely, I mean every letter of that word. The rest of the strikers you mentioned offer nothing special. As for Onuachu, he clearly offers something in the air that we do not have. That was exactly why I compared him to Agali. Onuachu is nothing special with the ball at his feet. His ticket is what he can do in the air, just like Agali. We do not have that presently. Many nations have used a striker like that to devastating effect. We see the SE waste free kick after free kick. Then we heard Rohr indicate he will not pander to Onuachu's strengths. Then, why the hell invite Onuachu? In my view, there is nothing special about Onuachu besides that obvious advantage, which is unique.


Reason is because those wingers have zero confidence in his heading ability. You did correctly mention Onuachu is poor with the ball at his feet. He also lacks the speed to make room for himself, away from defenders. His ball control is poor. His hold up play is poor. What then is his use as a striker? As a winger, you cannot continue to cross the ball into the box if the striker can't utilize such crosses.
Case in point: Nigeria vs. Sierra Leone. 1 min into injury time (actually, 48 secs) with the game tied at 4-4. Perfect cross from Iwobi into the box for Onuachu. Flubbed it. Not even any attempt to head the ball. The guy is a frustrating striker to play with.
Dude may be dominant aerially at his club but at the SE level, he has royally sucked. He was given an opportunity to harness himself when he was invited to the SE. He has failed. He needs to be let go.
As a manager, you use players who are able to adapt to the team's style of play. You cannot say, because a team has a 6'5"+ striker, that team should jettison its ground game and resort to the 'up and under'. What if the centerbacks he is up against are equally as tall and are much better in the air than he is? Then what? His only asset is completely neutralized. He becomes useless to the team. Even Peter Crouch at 6'7" had some pace and offered a whole lot more outside of his heading ability for England, hence the level of success he had.
Enugu II wrote:
when he gets in the game, you still watch the wingers dribble the ball into the middle of the goal, negating an advantage staring them in the face! This happens time after time. If Rohr cannot design a better approach, then simply do not invite the guy any longer. What is the point of his invitation, if I may ask? As you pointed out, there are several other strikers who can do better with the way the team currently plays. Dessers, Maja, etc but none of those offer what Onuachu brings to the table i.e. aerial dominance. THAT IS THE KEY. If a Manager claims the team will not adapt to obvious individual advantage a player has then I got to be concerned about the acumen of the manager. There are managers who will astutely insert a free kick specialist into a game when a team is getting a lot of set pieces. There are others who will insert a dribbler in when a defense is compact and difficult to break down, there are those who will insert a ball winner when an opposing team is dominating possession. Those decisions demonstrate the astuteness of a manager. Therefore, the fact is that Onuachu offers a unique advantage that very few players offer Nigeria ought to be something to harness and not something to gloss over as Rohr demonstrates in the quote below. That speaks VOLUMES. It is up to Nigeria to harness that Onuachu advantage or simply not invite the guy.
But to be clear, Onuahu's lack of productivity for the SE ,if you have been watching closely, is exactly due to how the team and Manager wishes to play. That is squarely at Rohr's table. No where else. Make no mistake about that. The Manager ought to be incisive and cerebral with the ability to take advantage of the talent in front of him. Rohr has not done that. IO will not mince words in pointing out what ought to be clear.



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 Post subject: Re: Awoniyi hangs!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:27 pm 
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Posts: 18509
Location: Super Eagles Homeland
Otitokoro wrote:
Even though and according to you, the other strikers mentioned offer nothing special, they still are quicker and are decent with the ball at their feet. That is still one important asset that this fellow lacks and I will gladly take that over whatever Onuachu has to offer.
And yes, we do have a MUCH better header of the ball in Osimhen. His climb authority on crosses is just phenomenal for a 6'2" striker. Onuachu, at 6'7" does not have the elevation that Osimhen has. Onuachu is not fit to wipe the sweat off the brow of Agali's forehead, when it comes to SE performance. Agali had 5 goals in 12 caps - mostly scored from headers. This guy has a goal in 10, and has yet to score a header. So, he has offered the SE absolutely nothing with regards his so called best asset which you refer to.
Quote:
The above captures the point that I seek to make. Thanks for that. Agali had his goals because the Coach (Amodu) made sure of it by scheming specifically to take advantage of Agali's strength. That is precisely the point. Onuachu would produce likewise if only Rohr is willing to do what Amodu did. Onuachu has produced at his club because his coaches have taken advantage of that advantage that he has. That is what good coaches do. Rohr has indicated that he does not plan to do that. Thus, why keep inviting him? Nothing else to add.
Enugu II wrote:
In my view, your comparison of Onuachu with other strikers gravely misses the point. By gravely, I mean every letter of that word. The rest of the strikers you mentioned offer nothing special. As for Onuachu, he clearly offers something in the air that we do not have. That was exactly why I compared him to Agali. Onuachu is nothing special with the ball at his feet. His ticket is what he can do in the air, just like Agali. We do not have that presently. Many nations have used a striker like that to devastating effect. We see the SE waste free kick after free kick. Then we heard Rohr indicate he will not pander to Onuachu's strengths. Then, why the hell invite Onuachu? In my view, there is nothing special about Onuachu besides that obvious advantage, which is unique.


Reason is because those wingers have zero confidence in his heading ability. You did correctly mention Onuachu is poor with the ball at his feet. He also lacks the speed to make room for himself, away from defenders. His ball control is poor. His hold up play is poor. What then is his use as a striker? As a winger, you cannot continue to cross the ball into the box if the striker can't utilize such crosses.
Case in point: Nigeria vs. Sierra Leone. 1 min into injury time (actually, 48 secs) with the game tied at 4-4. Perfect cross from Iwobi into the box for Onuachu. Flubbed it. Not even any attempt to head the ball. The guy is a frustrating striker to play with.
Dude may be dominant aerially at his club but at the SE level, he has royally sucked. He was given an opportunity to harness himself when he was invited to the SE. He has failed. He needs to be let go.
As a manager, you use players who are able to adapt to the team's style of play. You cannot say, because a team has a 6'5"+ striker, that team should jettison its ground game and resort to the 'up and under'. What if the centerbacks he is up against are equally as tall and are much better in the air than he is? Then what? His only asset is completely neutralized. He becomes useless to the team. Even Peter Crouch at 6'7" had some pace and offered a whole lot more outside of his heading ability for England, hence the level of success he had.
Quote:
Given your analysis above including how supposedly poor Onuachu is at heading the ball, how come Rohr is inviting him? Could you please et us know why Rohr is inviting this fellow? Are you not indicting Rohr at this point? No? I actually, think otherwise. I feel that Rohr has a good reason for inviting him. He believes the lad is good at heading the ball and he has proven as much at his club if you have taken the time to watch some of his games. The problem is that on the SE, the team does not play to those strengths as his club does. That is the difference. It is not rocket science....by the way, if the players have no confidence in Onuachu's ability it leads me to the following questions: Are the players now dictating how the team plays or is Rohr dictating that? What is Rohr's input if the players can unilaterally determine that they will not get the ball to Onuachu. I ope you are actually not correct on that point because that is a severe indictment on the team's managers.

Enugu II wrote:
when he gets in the game, you still watch the wingers dribble the ball into the middle of the goal, negating an advantage staring them in the face! This happens time after time. If Rohr cannot design a better approach, then simply do not invite the guy any longer. What is the point of his invitation, if I may ask? As you pointed out, there are several other strikers who can do better with the way the team currently plays. Dessers, Maja, etc but none of those offer what Onuachu brings to the table i.e. aerial dominance. THAT IS THE KEY. If a Manager claims the team will not adapt to obvious individual advantage a player has then I got to be concerned about the acumen of the manager. There are managers who will astutely insert a free kick specialist into a game when a team is getting a lot of set pieces. There are others who will insert a dribbler in when a defense is compact and difficult to break down, there are those who will insert a ball winner when an opposing team is dominating possession. Those decisions demonstrate the astuteness of a manager. Therefore, the fact is that Onuachu offers a unique advantage that very few players offer Nigeria ought to be something to harness and not something to gloss over as Rohr demonstrates in the quote below. That speaks VOLUMES. It is up to Nigeria to harness that Onuachu advantage or simply not invite the guy.
But to be clear, Onuahu's lack of productivity for the SE ,if you have been watching closely, is exactly due to how the team and Manager wishes to play. That is squarely at Rohr's table. No where else. Make no mistake about that. The Manager ought to be incisive and cerebral with the ability to take advantage of the talent in front of him. Rohr has not done that. IO will not mince words in pointing out what ought to be clear.


_________________
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics


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 Post subject: Re: Awoniyi hangs!!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:43 pm 
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Well, Prof., it doesn't. Amodu did not change the SE style of play to accommodate Agali. The reverse was actually the case.
My retort to you would be: why then did Amodu jettison Agali (a successful Schalke 04 striker) after just 12 games. It wasn't because the guy was injured. I would suggest it was because a more useful striker who mapped better into Amodu's strategy came along in the form of Yakubu Aiyegbeni.
If the likes of Ighalo, Musa, Iheanacho and Osimhen (4 completely different strikers) were able to adapt to the SE, regardless of their club forms, and without Rohr modifying the SE style of play, why on earth should that change with Onuachu? We need to stop making excuses for this lad and Rohr is not culpable here.
Enugu II wrote:
The above captures the point that I seek to make. Thanks for that. Agali had his goals because the Coach (Amodu) made sure of it by scheming specifically to take advantage of Agali's strength. That is precisely the point. Onuachu would produce likewise if only Rohr is willing to do what Amodu did. Onuachu has produced at his club because his coaches have taken advantage of that advantage that he has. That is what good coaches do. Rohr has indicated that he does not plan to do that. Thus, why keep inviting him? Nothing else to add.


Rohr's policy has been to reward good/outstanding club performance with an invite to the SE and Onuachu's invitation is consistent with that policy. That's what most decent coaches do. Onuachu, is the leading scorer in the current Jupilar League, hence his invite. He is certainly NOT the best striker in the SE stables and is third or fourth on the SE striker totting pole. Rohr is NOT obligated to change the SE style of play to suit a 4th rate striker. That striker needs to adapt to the SE style of play.
And lastly, your comments regarding players dictating how the team plays (circumventing coaching instructions) is indicative of you clearly grasping at straws. The lad obviously had the ball passed to him - I previously gave you a classic example of his miss during the SL game. There were countless other opportunities afforded him by his SE teammates - thankfully, we have video technology that would prove this.
Enugu II wrote:
Given your analysis above including how supposedly poor Onuachu is at heading the ball, how come Rohr is inviting him? Could you please et us know why Rohr is inviting this fellow? Are you not indicting Rohr at this point? No? I actually, think otherwise. I feel that Rohr has a good reason for inviting him. He believes the lad is good at heading the ball and he has proven as much at his club if you have taken the time to watch some of his games. The problem is that on the SE, the team does not play to those strengths as his club does. That is the difference. It is not rocket science....by the way, if the players have no confidence in Onuachu's ability it leads me to the following questions: Are the players now dictating how the team plays or is Rohr dictating that? What is Rohr's input if the players can unilaterally determine that they will not get the ball to Onuachu. I ope you are actually not correct on that point because that is a severe indictment on the team's managers.


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 Post subject: Re: Awoniyi hangs!!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:01 pm 
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Awoniyi with a goal and assist Union Berlin as they currently lead by 2-0 away to Werder Bremen

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