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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:56 am 
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Damunk wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
I know Odegbami was a terrific player in his days (even though I wasn't born when he played short of old clips I've seen of him). But was he really as world class as he's been made to be, or are folks who were around when he played overhyping him from a rose tinted lens of nostalgic bias?
Many of us were around when he played, watched him live (both on TV and in the stadium), watched him for both club and country and watched him against both African and the rare non-African opposition.

As you can see, we have different recollections and opinions on how good he was.
Personally, I think he was a great Nigerian player but am not sure he would have reached the heights Finidi did on the global stage. We'll never know and his exposure outside Africa was extremely limited.

It's all subjective and none of us is more qualified than another to give a final incontestable verdict.

You remember the 1978 APOY, Abdul Razak of Ghana, couldn't even hack it in New York Cosmos. This was a player rated higher than Odegbami.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:07 am 
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1naija wrote:
Lolly wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
The best right winger Nigeria has produced in my view. Even in Europe, he was a cut above


I would say the best right winger to have played in Europe. Segun Odegbami would get my vote as the best right winger.



Why do we always spoil discussions about world class players by bringing up amateur players names?



Rrally?? He did??? I dont c YOBO's name thete :? :? :?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:15 am 
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Tobi17 wrote:
I know Odegbami was a terrific player in his days (even though I wasn't born when he played short of old clips I've seen of him). But was he really as world class as he's been made to be, or are folks who were around when he played overhyping him from a rose tinted lens of nostalgic bias?


Tobi17,

I believe these are TWO entirely different issues.

Ranking in the World: Here, we get a good picture of Finidi's ranking because he did play at Ajax and against the best players in the world. There is no dispute that he was a great player. Unfortunately, we cannot rank Odegbami here because he never played outside Nigeria for an European club.

Ranking in Nigeria/Africa: Here we definitely can compare both players even though they played in different era. Both played for Nigeri and both played against the very top African players some who were playing for European clubs at the same time. Here, there is little dispute that Odegbami was farmer dominant against his African competitors than Finidi was. Odegbami was top ranked among African players, a few who were actually also playing in Europe at the time. Finidi was also considered top but was not THE star off any of the Super Eagles' team that he played on while Odegbami bam was. Also you can compare their stats for Super Eagles.

The above is what informs my take. If we are comparing players based on performance for NIGERIA, there is little doubt that Odegbami was ahead of Finidi. Now, it is a different issue if we are comparing the players on their performance in global club football.

The problem, I believe, is conflating several issues. (1) claiming performance at club level equates to performance for Nigeria. Those are two different things. A classic example is Jonathan Akpoborire's career. Akpoborire may have been a better player than Yekini if we looked at their club performance in terms of perception of club and productivity at the club. But Akpoborire cannot hold a candle to Yekini when we look at SE careers of both players. If you are younger, then use an example currently developing --- Leon Balogun v Kevin Akpoguma. Who would you consider Nigeria's better player? Definitely Balogun given his exploits for SE compared to Akpoguma. Ofcourse, there would be people trying to conflate Akpoguma's work for German youth national and German club to Balogun's club career. That, my brother I cry FOOUUULL! The question is about what they have done in the Nigerian green and white and nothing more. If you use that yardstick, perhaps, you get an idea what this is about.

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The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:26 am 
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Enugu II wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
I know Odegbami was a terrific player in his days (even though I wasn't born when he played short of old clips I've seen of him). But was he really as world class as he's been made to be, or are folks who were around when he played overhyping him from a rose tinted lens of nostalgic bias?


Tobi17,

I believe these are TWO entirely different issues.

Ranking in the World: Here, we get a good picture of Finidi's ranking because he did play at Ajax and against the best players in the world. There is no dispute that he was a great player. Unfortunately, we cannot rank Odegbami here because he never played outside Nigeria for an European club.

Ranking in Nigeria/Africa: Here we definitely can compare both players even though they played in different era. Both played for Nigeri and both played against the very top African players some who were playing for European clubs at the same time. Here, there is little dispute that Odegbami was farmer dominant against his African competitors than Finidi was. Odegbami was top ranked among African players, a few who were actually also playing in Europe at the time. Finidi was also considered top but was not THE star off any of the Super Eagles' team that he played on while Odegbami bam was. Also you can compare their stats for Super Eagles.

The above is what informs my take. If we are comparing players based on performance for NIGERIA, there is little doubt that Odegbami was ahead of Finidi. Now, it is a different issue if we are comparing the players on their performance in global club football.

The problem, I believe, is conflating several issues. (1) claiming performance at club level equates to performance for Nigeria. Those are two different things. A classic example is Jonathan Akpoborire's career. Akpoborire may have been a better player than Yekini if we looked at their club performance in terms of perception of club and productivity at the club. But Akpoborire cannot hold a candle to Yekini when we look at SE careers of both players. If you are younger, then use an example currently developing --- Leon Balogun v Kevin Akpoguma. Who would you consider Nigeria's better player? Definitely Balogun given his exploits for SE compared to Akpoguma. Ofcourse, there would be people trying to conflate Akpoguma's work for German youth national and German club to Balogun's club career. That, my brother I cry FOOUUULL! The question is about what they have done in the Nigerian green and white and nothing more. If you use that yardstick, perhaps, you get an idea what this is about.

You keep evading direct response to my comments. Was Odegbami not an inside forward(No 10), who only played on the wings for Nigeria while Finidi was a pure winger?
So even the comparison is not exactly like for like!
A forward will score more goals than a winger, I'm sure you know that. Just like Odegbami, Finidi would have had better ratings in Africa if not for the AFCON ban between 1994 and 2000. Those were Finidi's best years but unfortunately Nigeria was banned during that period.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:11 am 
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Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
I know Odegbami was a terrific player in his days (even though I wasn't born when he played short of old clips I've seen of him). But was he really as world class as he's been made to be, or are folks who were around when he played overhyping him from a rose tinted lens of nostalgic bias?


Tobi17,

I believe these are TWO entirely different issues.

Ranking in the World: Here, we get a good picture of Finidi's ranking because he did play at Ajax and against the best players in the world. There is no dispute that he was a great player. Unfortunately, we cannot rank Odegbami here because he never played outside Nigeria for an European club.

Ranking in Nigeria/Africa: Here we definitely can compare both players even though they played in different era. Both played for Nigeri and both played against the very top African players some who were playing for European clubs at the same time. Here, there is little dispute that Odegbami was farmer dominant against his African competitors than Finidi was. Odegbami was top ranked among African players, a few who were actually also playing in Europe at the time. Finidi was also considered top but was not THE star off any of the Super Eagles' team that he played on while Odegbami bam was. Also you can compare their stats for Super Eagles.

The above is what informs my take. If we are comparing players based on performance for NIGERIA, there is little doubt that Odegbami was ahead of Finidi. Now, it is a different issue if we are comparing the players on their performance in global club football.

The problem, I believe, is conflating several issues. (1) claiming performance at club level equates to performance for Nigeria. Those are two different things. A classic example is Jonathan Akpoborire's career. Akpoborire may have been a better player than Yekini if we looked at their club performance in terms of perception of club and productivity at the club. But Akpoborire cannot hold a candle to Yekini when we look at SE careers of both players. If you are younger, then use an example currently developing --- Leon Balogun v Kevin Akpoguma. Who would you consider Nigeria's better player? Definitely Balogun given his exploits for SE compared to Akpoguma. Ofcourse, there would be people trying to conflate Akpoguma's work for German youth national and German club to Balogun's club career. That, my brother I cry FOOUUULL! The question is about what they have done in the Nigerian green and white and nothing more. If you use that yardstick, perhaps, you get an idea what this is about.

You keep evading direct response to my comments. Was Odegbami not an inside forward(No 10), who only played on the wings for Nigeria while Finidi was a pure winger?
So even the comparison is not exactly like for like!
A forward will score more goals than a winger, I'm sure you know that. Just like Odegbami, Finidi would have had better ratings in Africa if not for the AFCON ban between 1994 and 2000. Those were Finidi's best years but unfortunately Nigeria was banned during that period.


But both played on the wings for Nigeria and that is what we are discussing here - who was the best right winger Nigeria produced. And you can only compare on what they did for Nigeria in that position and their SE career since Odegbami never player in Europe. Odegbami had more influence on games, scored more goals and was Nigeria's most dangerous offensive player for many years.

I repeat, Finidi was nowhere as good as Odegbami. Its not even close.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:33 pm 
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Dammy,


Just a question. It appears you never followed Odegbami or saw him live based on the question you raised.

First of all, Odegbami did start his career as a No. 10 but that was at Housing Corporation and NTC. He joined WNDC (IICC) as No. 10. Those periods were earliy in his career.

For Nigeria, Odegbami was a No.7 from Day 1 of his national team career. The No. 9 at Eagles then was Usiyan and a host of others later including Eyo Martins, John Nwadioha, and Ifeanyi Onyedika. The No. 10 at that time for Nigeria were a host of guys like Kelechi Emeteole, Segun Adeleke, Godwin Iwelumo, Henry Nwosu.

The only time Segun moved to No. 9 was the final game of the 1980 AFCON when Otto Glroria confounded the Algerians with a very late and deliberate switch in position for several players including Muda Lawal and Segun. It was to devastating effect as Segun banged in 2 goals before the Algerians knew what hit them (This was the Algerians that had beaten Germany at the WC just a couple of years before). Most Nigerians who actually followed Odegbami during his Nigerian career will remember him as a No. 7 and rarely as No. 10 because as a No. 10 that was quite early in his career and at clubs prior to IICC.

Look if you want to create an all-time Nigeria XI that played for European clubs, yea Finidi will be ahead of Odegbami. The later never played in Europe. However, if you want too create an All-time Nigeria XI who wore the GREEEN AND WHITE of Nigeria, it is ridiculous to even consider Finidi ahead of Odegbami. Odegbami is etched as a starter in any Nigeria ALL-TIME XI that ever wore and produced in the GREEN AND WHITE.

Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
I know Odegbami was a terrific player in his days (even though I wasn't born when he played short of old clips I've seen of him). But was he really as world class as he's been made to be, or are folks who were around when he played overhyping him from a rose tinted lens of nostalgic bias?


Tobi17,

I believe these are TWO entirely different issues.

Ranking in the World: Here, we get a good picture of Finidi's ranking because he did play at Ajax and against the best players in the world. There is no dispute that he was a great player. Unfortunately, we cannot rank Odegbami here because he never played outside Nigeria for an European club.

Ranking in Nigeria/Africa: Here we definitely can compare both players even though they played in different era. Both played for Nigeri and both played against the very top African players some who were playing for European clubs at the same time. Here, there is little dispute that Odegbami was farmer dominant against his African competitors than Finidi was. Odegbami was top ranked among African players, a few who were actually also playing in Europe at the time. Finidi was also considered top but was not THE star off any of the Super Eagles' team that he played on while Odegbami bam was. Also you can compare their stats for Super Eagles.

The above is what informs my take. If we are comparing players based on performance for NIGERIA, there is little doubt that Odegbami was ahead of Finidi. Now, it is a different issue if we are comparing the players on their performance in global club football.

The problem, I believe, is conflating several issues. (1) claiming performance at club level equates to performance for Nigeria. Those are two different things. A classic example is Jonathan Akpoborire's career. Akpoborire may have been a better player than Yekini if we looked at their club performance in terms of perception of club and productivity at the club. But Akpoborire cannot hold a candle to Yekini when we look at SE careers of both players. If you are younger, then use an example currently developing --- Leon Balogun v Kevin Akpoguma. Who would you consider Nigeria's better player? Definitely Balogun given his exploits for SE compared to Akpoguma. Ofcourse, there would be people trying to conflate Akpoguma's work for German youth national and German club to Balogun's club career. That, my brother I cry FOOUUULL! The question is about what they have done in the Nigerian green and white and nothing more. If you use that yardstick, perhaps, you get an idea what this is about.

You keep evading direct response to my comments. Was Odegbami not an inside forward(No 10), who only played on the wings for Nigeria while Finidi was a pure winger?
So even the comparison is not exactly like for like!
A forward will score more goals than a winger, I'm sure you know that. Just like Odegbami, Finidi would have had better ratings in Africa if not for the AFCON ban between 1994 and 2000. Those were Finidi's best years but unfortunately Nigeria was banned during that period.

_________________
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:15 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
Dammy,


Just a question. It appears you never followed Odegbami or saw him live based on the question you raised.

First of all, Odegbami did start his career as a No. 10 but that was at Housing Corporation and NTC. He joined WNDC (IICC) as No. 10. Those periods were earliy in his career.

For Nigeria, Odegbami was a No.7 from Day 1 of his national team career. The No. 9 at Eagles then was Usiyan and a host of others later including Eyo Martins, John Nwadioha, and Ifeanyi Onyedika. The No. 10 at that time for Nigeria were a host of guys like Kelechi Emeteole, Segun Adeleke, Godwin Iwelumo, Henry Nwosu.

The only time Segun moved to No. 9 was the final game of the 1980 AFCON when Otto Glroria confounded the Algerians with a very late and deliberate switch in position for several players including Muda Lawal and Segun. It was to devastating effect as Segun banged in 2 goals before the Algerians knew what hit them (This was the Algerians that had beaten Germany at the WC just a couple of years before). Most Nigerians who actually followed Odegbami during his Nigerian career will remember him as a No. 7 and rarely as No. 10 because as a No. 10 that was quite early in his career and at clubs prior to IICC.

Look if you want to create an all-time Nigeria XI that played for European clubs, yea Finidi will be ahead of Odegbami. The later never played in Europe. However, if you want too create an All-time Nigeria XI who wore the GREEEN AND WHITE of Nigeria, it is ridiculous to even consider Finidi ahead of Odegbami. Odegbami is etched as a starter in any Nigeria ALL-TIME XI that ever wore and produced in the GREEN AND WHITE.

Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
I know Odegbami was a terrific player in his days (even though I wasn't born when he played short of old clips I've seen of him). But was he really as world class as he's been made to be, or are folks who were around when he played overhyping him from a rose tinted lens of nostalgic bias?


Tobi17,

I believe these are TWO entirely different issues.

Ranking in the World: Here, we get a good picture of Finidi's ranking because he did play at Ajax and against the best players in the world. There is no dispute that he was a great player. Unfortunately, we cannot rank Odegbami here because he never played outside Nigeria for an European club.

Ranking in Nigeria/Africa: Here we definitely can compare both players even though they played in different era. Both played for Nigeri and both played against the very top African players some who were playing for European clubs at the same time. Here, there is little dispute that Odegbami was farmer dominant against his African competitors than Finidi was. Odegbami was top ranked among African players, a few who were actually also playing in Europe at the time. Finidi was also considered top but was not THE star off any of the Super Eagles' team that he played on while Odegbami bam was. Also you can compare their stats for Super Eagles.

The above is what informs my take. If we are comparing players based on performance for NIGERIA, there is little doubt that Odegbami was ahead of Finidi. Now, it is a different issue if we are comparing the players on their performance in global club football.

The problem, I believe, is conflating several issues. (1) claiming performance at club level equates to performance for Nigeria. Those are two different things. A classic example is Jonathan Akpoborire's career. Akpoborire may have been a better player than Yekini if we looked at their club performance in terms of perception of club and productivity at the club. But Akpoborire cannot hold a candle to Yekini when we look at SE careers of both players. If you are younger, then use an example currently developing --- Leon Balogun v Kevin Akpoguma. Who would you consider Nigeria's better player? Definitely Balogun given his exploits for SE compared to Akpoguma. Ofcourse, there would be people trying to conflate Akpoguma's work for German youth national and German club to Balogun's club career. That, my brother I cry FOOUUULL! The question is about what they have done in the Nigerian green and white and nothing more. If you use that yardstick, perhaps, you get an idea what this is about.

You keep evading direct response to my comments. Was Odegbami not an inside forward(No 10), who only played on the wings for Nigeria while Finidi was a pure winger?
So even the comparison is not exactly like for like!
A forward will score more goals than a winger, I'm sure you know that. Just like Odegbami, Finidi would have had better ratings in Africa if not for the AFCON ban between 1994 and 2000. Those were Finidi's best years but unfortunately Nigeria was banned during that period.

I grew up in Ibadan and I was a die hard fan of Shooting Stars and Odegbami, so the issue of whether I know him or not doesn't arise. I watched several Shooting Stars matches at the Liberty Stadium free of charge because my Uncle, was the state table-tennis coach.
Odegbami played at No. 10 for Shooting while the Ghanaian, Philip Boamah, was the No.7, surely if you know Odegbami as you claim, you would know that. Please ask any Shooting Stars fan especially Toxic, maybe I'm making things up.
Muda Lawal was moved to the No. 9 position for the AFCON final and not Odegbami. You have so many things wrong. Algeria had not beaten Germany when we beat them in the 1980 AFCON final, as I'm sure you will agree with me that 1982 comes after 1980.
There's a reason why the legendary goalsfather, Rashidi Yekini, is quoted as saying " omo gidi ni Finidi". It's not a coincidence that Yekini's peak years in the SE between 1992 and 1994 was due to the presence of Finidi, who supplied many killer passes and crosses to the great man.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:28 pm 
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Dammy wrote:
Aswani wrote:
Finidi never solely carried any of the teams he played for, maybe Sharks. Odegbami carried IICC on his back for a fair period until it destroyed his knees.

I am going for Odegbami with this one due to that.

Finidi was voted the best right sided midfielder in the WORLD in 1998 ahead of Figo and Zanetti!!


Dammy,

David Beckham was voted second best player in the world twice. This was a person that wasn't even the second best midfielder at any point at his clubside then. That is also why all of this voting by whoever doesn't register with me.

Finidi was a cog in the wheel with every Naija team he played in. Segun Odegami was the wheel at times.

To those who see fit to denigrate African football of the 70's and 80's just to belittle Segun Odegbami's ability and give fuel to pro-Finidi arguments, how come Finidi's CV doesn't show him at clubs like Milan, Inter, Juve, Barcelona or Real Madrid. The cream of football clubs when he was at the top of his game.

Finidi was a good player but even as a right winger that made it in Europe, I cannot rate him above Segun Odegbami.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:36 am 
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Dammy,


From what you wrote, I doubt that you ever followed Shooting Stars closely. Bros, the fact that you lived in Ibadan means diddly. I lived in Nsukka but followed Shooting Stars closely but it was not just Shooting Stars but all Nigerian football.

To claim that Boamah was the winger throughout his career with Shooting tells me you know very little about Shooting. Phillip Boamah was indeed a winger earlier in his career but emergence of Odegbami changed THAT. You fail two realize that emergence of Segun Odegbami on the right eventually moved Boamah to No.9 and eventually out of the starting team. Where did Boamah play in the Challenge Cup of 1975? Where did Segun and Boamah play in the final of 1977? Where did Segun play in the final of 1979? The answers should help you solve what seems, surprisingly for a Shootting fan, a MYSTERY.

TBH, I am surprised that what appears to me to be basic knowledge for a Nigerian fan (not just Shooting Stars's fan) is lost here. This ought to be basic given how dominant Odegbami was in those days.


BTW, just a funny story here on Odegbami. I recall this guy coming to play Rangers in Nsukka for a league game and Rangers chose to start Mike Ochiagha (name translates to War General). Ochiagha was so petrified that in the warm up before the match, he ran to the Shooting side and started jumping as high as he could in front of Segun to the latter's amazement. Each jump led to the crowd screaming "War! War!! War!!! (see Ochiagha translation). The lad was simply trying to charge himself up for the game. Later on in the Eagles' camp, Segun asked Rangers' team mates in camp who the lad (Ochiasgha was)....

Have you asked why Nnamdi Anyafo "Policeman" earned the name 'Policeman'? Do you realize it was his antics following Segun wherever Segun went in that epic 1977 Africa Cup Winners clash between Rangers and IICC.


Have you asked about the popular album, in those days, "Odegbami, is a goal!". If you followed football, then, you ought to be familiar with it. How many footballers had an album made in their name?

Bros, please do not for one minute underestimate what Segun was for Nigeria not just then but ETERNALLY. He was THE STAR and not just one of the top players.

Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Dammy,


Just a question. It appears you never followed Odegbami or saw him live based on the question you raised.

First of all, Odegbami did start his career as a No. 10 but that was at Housing Corporation and NTC. He joined WNDC (IICC) as No. 10. Those periods were earliy in his career.

For Nigeria, Odegbami was a No.7 from Day 1 of his national team career. The No. 9 at Eagles then was Usiyan and a host of others later including Eyo Martins, John Nwadioha, and Ifeanyi Onyedika. The No. 10 at that time for Nigeria were a host of guys like Kelechi Emeteole, Segun Adeleke, Godwin Iwelumo, Henry Nwosu.

The only time Segun moved to No. 9 was the final game of the 1980 AFCON when Otto Glroria confounded the Algerians with a very late and deliberate switch in position for several players including Muda Lawal and Segun. It was to devastating effect as Segun banged in 2 goals before the Algerians knew what hit them (This was the Algerians that had beaten Germany at the WC just a couple of years before). Most Nigerians who actually followed Odegbami during his Nigerian career will remember him as a No. 7 and rarely as No. 10 because as a No. 10 that was quite early in his career and at clubs prior to IICC.

Look if you want to create an all-time Nigeria XI that played for European clubs, yea Finidi will be ahead of Odegbami. The later never played in Europe. However, if you want too create an All-time Nigeria XI who wore the GREEEN AND WHITE of Nigeria, it is ridiculous to even consider Finidi ahead of Odegbami. Odegbami is etched as a starter in any Nigeria ALL-TIME XI that ever wore and produced in the GREEN AND WHITE.

Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
I know Odegbami was a terrific player in his days (even though I wasn't born when he played short of old clips I've seen of him). But was he really as world class as he's been made to be, or are folks who were around when he played overhyping him from a rose tinted lens of nostalgic bias?


Tobi17,

I believe these are TWO entirely different issues.

Ranking in the World: Here, we get a good picture of Finidi's ranking because he did play at Ajax and against the best players in the world. There is no dispute that he was a great player. Unfortunately, we cannot rank Odegbami here because he never played outside Nigeria for an European club.

Ranking in Nigeria/Africa: Here we definitely can compare both players even though they played in different era. Both played for Nigeri and both played against the very top African players some who were playing for European clubs at the same time. Here, there is little dispute that Odegbami was farmer dominant against his African competitors than Finidi was. Odegbami was top ranked among African players, a few who were actually also playing in Europe at the time. Finidi was also considered top but was not THE star off any of the Super Eagles' team that he played on while Odegbami bam was. Also you can compare their stats for Super Eagles.

The above is what informs my take. If we are comparing players based on performance for NIGERIA, there is little doubt that Odegbami was ahead of Finidi. Now, it is a different issue if we are comparing the players on their performance in global club football.

The problem, I believe, is conflating several issues. (1) claiming performance at club level equates to performance for Nigeria. Those are two different things. A classic example is Jonathan Akpoborire's career. Akpoborire may have been a better player than Yekini if we looked at their club performance in terms of perception of club and productivity at the club. But Akpoborire cannot hold a candle to Yekini when we look at SE careers of both players. If you are younger, then use an example currently developing --- Leon Balogun v Kevin Akpoguma. Who would you consider Nigeria's better player? Definitely Balogun given his exploits for SE compared to Akpoguma. Ofcourse, there would be people trying to conflate Akpoguma's work for German youth national and German club to Balogun's club career. That, my brother I cry FOOUUULL! The question is about what they have done in the Nigerian green and white and nothing more. If you use that yardstick, perhaps, you get an idea what this is about.

You keep evading direct response to my comments. Was Odegbami not an inside forward(No 10), who only played on the wings for Nigeria while Finidi was a pure winger?
So even the comparison is not exactly like for like!
A forward will score more goals than a winger, I'm sure you know that. Just like Odegbami, Finidi would have had better ratings in Africa if not for the AFCON ban between 1994 and 2000. Those were Finidi's best years but unfortunately Nigeria was banned during that period.

I grew up in Ibadan and I was a die hard fan of Shooting Stars and Odegbami, so the issue of whether I know him or not doesn't arise. I watched several Shooting Stars matches at the Liberty Stadium free of charge because my Uncle, was the state table-tennis coach.
Odegbami played at No. 10 for Shooting while the Ghanaian, Philip Boamah, was the No.7, surely if you know Odegbami as you claim, you would know that. Please ask any Shooting Stars fan especially Toxic, maybe I'm making things up.
Muda Lawal was moved to the No. 9 position for the AFCON final and not Odegbami. You have so many things wrong. Algeria had not beaten Germany when we beat them in the 1980 AFCON final, as I'm sure you will agree with me that 1982 comes after 1980.
There's a reason why the legendary goalsfather, Rashidi Yekini, is quoted as saying " omo gidi ni Finidi". It's not a coincidence that Yekini's peak years in the SE between 1992 and 1994 was due to the presence of Finidi, who supplied many killer passes and crosses to the great man.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:29 am 
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Enugu II wrote:
Dammy,


From what you wrote, I doubt that you ever followed Shooting Stars closely. Bros, the fact that you lived in Ibadan means diddly. I lived in Nsukka but followed Shooting Stars closely but it was not just Shooting Stars but all Nigerian football.

To claim that Boamah was the winger throughout his career with Shooting tells me you know very little about Shooting. Phillip Boamah was indeed a winger earlier in his career but emergence of Odegbami changed THAT. You fail two realize that emergence of Segun Odegbami on the right eventually moved Boamah to No.9 and eventually out of the starting team. Where did Boamah play in the Challenge Cup of 1975? Where did Segun and Boamah play in the final of 1977? Where did Segun play in the final of 1979? The answers should help you solve what seems, surprisingly for a Shootting fan, a MYSTERY.

TBH, I am surprised that what appears to me to be basic knowledge for a Nigerian fan (not just Shooting Stars's fan) is lost here. This ought to be basic given how dominant Odegbami was in those days.


BTW, just a funny story here on Odegbami. I recall this guy coming to play Rangers in Nsukka for a league game and Rangers chose to start Mike Ochiagha (name translates to War General). Ochiagha was so petrified that in the warm up before the match, he ran to the Shooting side and started jumping as high as he could in front of Segun to the latter's amazement. Each jump led to the crowd screaming "War! War!! War!!! (see Ochiagha translation). The lad was simply trying to charge himself up for the game. Later on in the Eagles' camp, Segun asked Rangers' team mates in camp who the lad (Ochiasgha was)....

Have you asked why Nnamdi Anyafo "Policeman" earned the name 'Policeman'? Do you realize it was his antics following Segun wherever Segun went in that epic 1977 Africa Cup Winners clash between Rangers and IICC.


Have you asked about the popular album, in those days, "Odegbami, is a goal!". If you followed football, then, you ought to be familiar with it. How many footballers had an album made in their name?

Bros, please do not for one minute underestimate what Segun was for Nigeria not just then but ETERNALLY. He was THE STAR and not just one of the top players.

Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Dammy,


Just a question. It appears you never followed Odegbami or saw him live based on the question you raised.

First of all, Odegbami did start his career as a No. 10 but that was at Housing Corporation and NTC. He joined WNDC (IICC) as No. 10. Those periods were earliy in his career.

For Nigeria, Odegbami was a No.7 from Day 1 of his national team career. The No. 9 at Eagles then was Usiyan and a host of others later including Eyo Martins, John Nwadioha, and Ifeanyi Onyedika. The No. 10 at that time for Nigeria were a host of guys like Kelechi Emeteole, Segun Adeleke, Godwin Iwelumo, Henry Nwosu.

The only time Segun moved to No. 9 was the final game of the 1980 AFCON when Otto Glroria confounded the Algerians with a very late and deliberate switch in position for several players including Muda Lawal and Segun. It was to devastating effect as Segun banged in 2 goals before the Algerians knew what hit them (This was the Algerians that had beaten Germany at the WC just a couple of years before). Most Nigerians who actually followed Odegbami during his Nigerian career will remember him as a No. 7 and rarely as No. 10 because as a No. 10 that was quite early in his career and at clubs prior to IICC.

Look if you want to create an all-time Nigeria XI that played for European clubs, yea Finidi will be ahead of Odegbami. The later never played in Europe. However, if you want too create an All-time Nigeria XI who wore the GREEEN AND WHITE of Nigeria, it is ridiculous to even consider Finidi ahead of Odegbami. Odegbami is etched as a starter in any Nigeria ALL-TIME XI that ever wore and produced in the GREEN AND WHITE.

Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Tobi17 wrote:
I know Odegbami was a terrific player in his days (even though I wasn't born when he played short of old clips I've seen of him). But was he really as world class as he's been made to be, or are folks who were around when he played overhyping him from a rose tinted lens of nostalgic bias?


Tobi17,

I believe these are TWO entirely different issues.

Ranking in the World: Here, we get a good picture of Finidi's ranking because he did play at Ajax and against the best players in the world. There is no dispute that he was a great player. Unfortunately, we cannot rank Odegbami here because he never played outside Nigeria for an European club.

Ranking in Nigeria/Africa: Here we definitely can compare both players even though they played in different era. Both played for Nigeri and both played against the very top African players some who were playing for European clubs at the same time. Here, there is little dispute that Odegbami was farmer dominant against his African competitors than Finidi was. Odegbami was top ranked among African players, a few who were actually also playing in Europe at the time. Finidi was also considered top but was not THE star off any of the Super Eagles' team that he played on while Odegbami bam was. Also you can compare their stats for Super Eagles.

The above is what informs my take. If we are comparing players based on performance for NIGERIA, there is little doubt that Odegbami was ahead of Finidi. Now, it is a different issue if we are comparing the players on their performance in global club football.

The problem, I believe, is conflating several issues. (1) claiming performance at club level equates to performance for Nigeria. Those are two different things. A classic example is Jonathan Akpoborire's career. Akpoborire may have been a better player than Yekini if we looked at their club performance in terms of perception of club and productivity at the club. But Akpoborire cannot hold a candle to Yekini when we look at SE careers of both players. If you are younger, then use an example currently developing --- Leon Balogun v Kevin Akpoguma. Who would you consider Nigeria's better player? Definitely Balogun given his exploits for SE compared to Akpoguma. Ofcourse, there would be people trying to conflate Akpoguma's work for German youth national and German club to Balogun's club career. That, my brother I cry FOOUUULL! The question is about what they have done in the Nigerian green and white and nothing more. If you use that yardstick, perhaps, you get an idea what this is about.

You keep evading direct response to my comments. Was Odegbami not an inside forward(No 10), who only played on the wings for Nigeria while Finidi was a pure winger?
So even the comparison is not exactly like for like!
A forward will score more goals than a winger, I'm sure you know that. Just like Odegbami, Finidi would have had better ratings in Africa if not for the AFCON ban between 1994 and 2000. Those were Finidi's best years but unfortunately Nigeria was banned during that period.

I grew up in Ibadan and I was a die hard fan of Shooting Stars and Odegbami, so the issue of whether I know him or not doesn't arise. I watched several Shooting Stars matches at the Liberty Stadium free of charge because my Uncle, was the state table-tennis coach.
Odegbami played at No. 10 for Shooting while the Ghanaian, Philip Boamah, was the No.7, surely if you know Odegbami as you claim, you would know that. Please ask any Shooting Stars fan especially Toxic, maybe I'm making things up.
Muda Lawal was moved to the No. 9 position for the AFCON final and not Odegbami. You have so many things wrong. Algeria had not beaten Germany when we beat them in the 1980 AFCON final, as I'm sure you will agree with me that 1982 comes after 1980.
There's a reason why the legendary goalsfather, Rashidi Yekini, is quoted as saying " omo gidi ni Finidi". It's not a coincidence that Yekini's peak years in the SE between 1992 and 1994 was due to the presence of Finidi, who supplied many killer passes and crosses to the great man.

The more you comment on Odegbami and Shooting stars, the more you reveal how little of the player and club you know.
Shooting's forward line between 76 and 80 was mainly 7. Phillip Boamah, 8. Nath Adewole, 9. Moses Otolorin, 10. Segun Odegbami and 11. Kunle Awesu.
Don't take my word for it, try and find out more from knowledgeable people. This was the forward line that won the 1977 African Cup Winners Cup. You live in Nsukka and you are telling me what I witnessed! I watched Shooting Stars matches LIVE at Liberty Stadium something you never had the opportunity and you are telling me that all that means nothing! Abeg try something else!
I watched the match in Kaduna where Nnamdi Ayanfo policed Segun Odegbami in Kaduna in 1978. Some will argue that the nickname actually came from his performance in the previous round against Police of Senegal, hence the full nickname was " Police of Senegal".
You fail to respond to who played No. 9 against Algeria in the 1980 AFCON final, you claimed it was Odegbami and I told you it was Muda Lawal, any updates on that?
Do you even bother to read my comments and comprehend? I said in a previous comment that I still listen regularly to Ebenezer Obey's " it's a goal Odegbami o", yet you bring it up as if I wasn't aware.
Odegbami was a Nigerian and African legend, Finidi was world class.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:47 am 
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Dammy,

First, Muda was announced as No.9 for that final match. I do not dispute that. I remember that as if was yesterday, but is that what he actually played in that final? Think again? If you know about that game, Gloria announced a lineup to deliberately fool the Algerians. I hope you recall that. What occurred on the field was slightly different for that game. Hopefully, you recall that.

Now, the fact that I was in Enugu did not mean that I did not follow the 3Sc team closely. I guess how can I now discuss Super Eagles since I am in the USA? Really? Location is now a dsqualifier and not interest and record keeping?

Okay, let us assume I did not follow 3SC and only you in Ibadan could do this. Please let us know whichI FA Cup finals across that period that Segun played in a position for 3Sc that was not at No. 7? Furthermore, here are FA Cup finals involving IICC/3Sc in the 1970s. Please let me know which one or ones that Segun played a position besides No. 7 and which ones he did not play at all. I ask since you watched 3Sc that much, you ought to know since you followed closely in Ibadan and I was stuck in Nsukka unable to follow.

1971 = ?
1975 = ?
1977 = ?
1979 = ?

TBH, I do not really think you watched Shooting Stars that much given that you seem to draw a blank as to Odegbami playing No.7.

Though I seek the answers above, the discourse there is really diversionary. Below is the FOCUS:

Let me ask, did Odegbami ever play No. 7 for Nigeria? Please let me know if he ever did or whether he played No.9 and No. 10.

In any case, forget IICC for a moment. Which games again did Segun play a position for the national team that was not at No. 7 (besides the Algerian game which we both agree and for a tactical reason). Which other ones do you recall? Please name a few, including games at AFCON 1980, besides the final game of that AFCON '80. If he did not play at #9 or #10 in those games for the SE, where did he play? Let's just cut to the chase.


Dammy wrote:
The more you comment on Odegbami and Shooting stars, the more you reveal how little of the player and club you know.
Shooting's forward line between 76 and 80 was mainly 7. Phillip Boamah, 8. Nath Adewole, 9. Moses Otolorin, 10. Segun Odegbami and 11. Kunle Awesu.
Don't take my word for it, try and find out more from knowledgeable people. This was the forward line that won the 1977 African Cup Winners Cup. You live in Nsukka and you are telling me what I witnessed! I watched Shooting Stars matches LIVE at Liberty Stadium something you never had the opportunity and you are telling me that all that means nothing! Abeg try something else!
I watched the match in Kaduna where Nnamdi Ayanfo policed Segun Odegbami in Kaduna in 1978. Some will argue that the nickname actually came from his performance in the previous round against Police of Senegal, hence the full nickname was " Police of Senegal".
You fail to respond to who played No. 9 against Algeria in the 1980 AFCON final, you claimed it was Odegbami and I told you it was Muda Lawal, any updates on that?
Do you even bother to read my comments and comprehend? I said in a previous comment that I still listen regularly to Ebenezer Obey's " it's a goal Odegbami o", yet you bring it up as if I wasn't aware.
Odegbami was a Nigerian and African legend, Finidi was world class.

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The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:54 am 
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Dammy, it was well recorded that Muda was used as a decoy 9 at the AFCON final. A tactical decision. Odegbami confirmed the same in the interview below.

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2020/03/eve ... hat-night/

Quote:
We go through very light training, mostly of set-pieces, rehearsals of specific runs down the flanks with crosses to connect the waiting head of our central striker for that match, Muda Lawal, practicing to play that position for the first time in the championship.

Otto Gloria has something up his sleeve. He is changing our pattern for this final match. Muda, the best defensive midfield player probably in Nigeria’s history, is being prepared to play as a decoy centre-forward! The experienced professor of football intends to throw the Algerian plans for that match into dis-array with that simple change in strategy. I can see it unfolding.


Odegbami played 7 most of his career. He was nicknamed Mathematical 7, a name he also uses. I remember a friendly match I watched at the National Stadium where Nigeria defeated Benin 7-0 and the crowd were singing Odegamni 7,7, Odegbami 7,7 when we scored the 7th goal.

Yes he could play as a striker, but he played more as a no 7 for the SE. Listen to him in the video below say he was a winger.



Some more clips of his playing time.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:09 am 
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Aswani wrote:
Dammy,

David Beckham was voted second best player in the world twice. This was a person that wasn't even the second best midfielder at any point at his clubside then. That is also why all of this voting by whoever doesn't register with me.

Finidi was a cog in the wheel with every Naija team he played in. Segun Odegami was the wheel at times.

To those who see fit to denigrate African football of the 70's and 80's just to belittle Segun Odegbami's ability and give fuel to pro-Finidi arguments, .
Tell us who here is "belittling Segun Odegbami's ability".
You accuse others of 'unfair play' only to go ahead and unfairly misrepresent their position?
Or are you saying that the audacity of the mere suggestion that Finidi was a better right winger is "belittling" in itself? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:


Quote:
how come Finidi's CV doesn't show him at clubs like Milan, Inter, Juve, Barcelona or Real Madrid. The cream of football clubs when he was at the top of his game.
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
Are you a Generation Z pikin??
Chief, we are not talking about 2021 here.
Or any time post-millennium.

Because Ajax in Finidi's time was at the same level of greatness as the teams you mention. Probably even greater. Ajax beat Real Madrid like they stole something en route to beating AC Milan in the UEFA Champions League final of '95.
The following year in '96, they lost to Juventus on penalties aet, again in the final.
See how you are downplaying it all simply to enable your argument. :lol:

Quote:
Finidi was a good player but even as a right winger that made it in Europe, I cannot rate him above Segun Odegbami
If anyone is "belittling" anybody here, it is you belittling Finidi.
Not because you don't rate him above Odegbami, no.
But because you casually minimise his achievements.

He played and excelled with and against some of the world's greatest players of his era en route to winning the UEFA Champions league in '95 against Milan and runners up in '96, losing on penalties to Juventus.
The likes of Seerdorf, Kluivert, Maldini, Desailly, Simone, Vialli, Deschamps, Davids, Riijkard, Ravanelli, Overmars, Baresi, Costacurta, van der Saar, the de Boer brothers, Del Pierro..... all household names globally at the time. :idea:

He was not a mere passenger. He was one of them - attested to by the fact that he was rated above another great Luis Figo, as "the best right winger in the world".

So when you say he was "good" and then say he merely "made it in Europe", you obviously and deliberately downplay his achievements. Numerous Nigerian players are good and have "made it in Europe". :idea:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:02 pm 
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Lolly wrote:
Dammy, it was well recorded that Muda was used as a decoy 9 at the AFCON final. A tactical decision. Odegbami confirmed the same in the interview below.

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2020/03/eve ... hat-night/

Quote:
We go through very light training, mostly of set-pieces, rehearsals of specific runs down the flanks with crosses to connect the waiting head of our central striker for that match, Muda Lawal, practicing to play that position for the first time in the championship.

Otto Gloria has something up his sleeve. He is changing our pattern for this final match. Muda, the best defensive midfield player probably in Nigeria’s history, is being prepared to play as a decoy centre-forward! The experienced professor of football intends to throw the Algerian plans for that match into dis-array with that simple change in strategy. I can see it unfolding.


Odegbami played 7 most of his career. He was nicknamed Mathematical 7, a name he also uses. I remember a friendly match I watched at the National Stadium where Nigeria defeated Benin 7-0 and the crowd were singing Odegamni 7,7, Odegbami 7,7 when we scored the 7th goal.

Yes he could play as a striker, but he played more as a no 7 for the SE. Listen to him in the video below say he was a winger.



Some more clips of his playing time.


We are on the same page. Odegbami played No.7 for the Green Eagles but he played as an inside forward(No 10) for IICC Shooting Stars. I have put up the typical lineup of Shooting Stars in that period and I'm still waiting for someone to tell me I got it wrong. Phillip Boamah was No. 7 for Shooting Stars.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:02 pm 
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Lolly wrote:
Dammy, it was well recorded that Muda was used as a decoy 9 at the AFCON final. A tactical decision. Odegbami confirmed the same in the interview below.

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2020/03/eve ... hat-night/

Quote:
We go through very light training, mostly of set-pieces, rehearsals of specific runs down the flanks with crosses to connect the waiting head of our central striker for that match, Muda Lawal, practicing to play that position for the first time in the championship.

Otto Gloria has something up his sleeve. He is changing our pattern for this final match. Muda, the best defensive midfield player probably in Nigeria’s history, is being prepared to play as a decoy centre-forward! The experienced professor of football intends to throw the Algerian plans for that match into dis-array with that simple change in strategy. I can see it unfolding.


Odegbami played 7 most of his career. He was nicknamed Mathematical 7, a name he also uses. I remember a friendly match I watched at the National Stadium where Nigeria defeated Benin 7-0 and the crowd were singing Odegamni 7,7, Odegbami 7,7 when we scored the 7th goal.

Yes he could play as a striker, but he played more as a no 7 for the SE. Listen to him in the video below say he was a winger.



Some more clips of his playing time.


We are on the same page. Odegbami played No.7 for the Green Eagles but he played as an inside forward(No 10) for IICC Shooting Stars. I have put up the typical lineup of Shooting Stars in that period and I'm still waiting for someone to tell me I got it wrong. Phillip Boamah was No. 7 for Shooting Stars.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:00 pm 
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Dammy,

I do not dispute that Segun played No. 10 for IICC on several occasions. In fact, the start of his career at NTC and Housing was spent there. That is and was never in dispute. The point is that he played No. 7 for IICC as I have pointed out on several occasions. I have also noted that Boamah did not always play No. 7 for 3Sc as well.

In any case, let us stay on the issue -- what position did Segun play for NIGERIA (i.e. Eagles not IICC) given that the debate here is about all time Nigeria. Glad that you finally came around to the fact that he predominantly played at No. 7 for Nigeria except for that 1980 final given Onyedika's ineffectiveness and Gloria re-jigging the lineup to confuse the Algerians to great effect.

I have nothing else to add, except if there is something new on this matter worth discussing.

Dammy wrote:
Lolly wrote:
Dammy, it was well recorded that Muda was used as a decoy 9 at the AFCON final. A tactical decision. Odegbami confirmed the same in the interview below.

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2020/03/eve ... hat-night/

Quote:
We go through very light training, mostly of set-pieces, rehearsals of specific runs down the flanks with crosses to connect the waiting head of our central striker for that match, Muda Lawal, practicing to play that position for the first time in the championship.

Otto Gloria has something up his sleeve. He is changing our pattern for this final match. Muda, the best defensive midfield player probably in Nigeria’s history, is being prepared to play as a decoy centre-forward! The experienced professor of football intends to throw the Algerian plans for that match into dis-array with that simple change in strategy. I can see it unfolding.


Odegbami played 7 most of his career. He was nicknamed Mathematical 7, a name he also uses. I remember a friendly match I watched at the National Stadium where Nigeria defeated Benin 7-0 and the crowd were singing Odegamni 7,7, Odegbami 7,7 when we scored the 7th goal.

Yes he could play as a striker, but he played more as a no 7 for the SE. Listen to him in the video below say he was a winger.



Some more clips of his playing time.


We are on the same page. Odegbami played No.7 for the Green Eagles but he played as an inside forward(No 10) for IICC Shooting Stars. I have put up the typical lineup of Shooting Stars in that period and I'm still waiting for someone to tell me I got it wrong. Phillip Boamah was No. 7 for Shooting Stars.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:31 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
Dammy,

I do not dispute that Segun played No. 10 for IICC on several occasions. In fact, the start of his career at NTC and Housing was spent there. That is and was never in dispute. The point is that he played No. 7 for IICC as I have pointed out on several occasions. I have also noted that Boamah did not always play No. 7 for 3Sc as well.

In any case, let us stay on the issue -- what position did Segun play for NIGERIA (i.e. Eagles not IICC) given that the debate here is about all time Nigeria. Glad that you finally came around to the fact that he predominantly played at No. 7 for Nigeria except for that 1980 final given Onyedika's ineffectiveness and Gloria re-jigging the lineup to confuse the Algerians to great effect.

I have nothing else to add, except if there is something new on this matter worth discussing.

Dammy wrote:
Lolly wrote:
Dammy, it was well recorded that Muda was used as a decoy 9 at the AFCON final. A tactical decision. Odegbami confirmed the same in the interview below.

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2020/03/eve ... hat-night/

Quote:
We go through very light training, mostly of set-pieces, rehearsals of specific runs down the flanks with crosses to connect the waiting head of our central striker for that match, Muda Lawal, practicing to play that position for the first time in the championship.

Otto Gloria has something up his sleeve. He is changing our pattern for this final match. Muda, the best defensive midfield player probably in Nigeria’s history, is being prepared to play as a decoy centre-forward! The experienced professor of football intends to throw the Algerian plans for that match into dis-array with that simple change in strategy. I can see it unfolding.


Odegbami played 7 most of his career. He was nicknamed Mathematical 7, a name he also uses. I remember a friendly match I watched at the National Stadium where Nigeria defeated Benin 7-0 and the crowd were singing Odegamni 7,7, Odegbami 7,7 when we scored the 7th goal.

Yes he could play as a striker, but he played more as a no 7 for the SE. Listen to him in the video below say he was a winger.



Some more clips of his playing time.


We are on the same page. Odegbami played No.7 for the Green Eagles but he played as an inside forward(No 10) for IICC Shooting Stars. I have put up the typical lineup of Shooting Stars in that period and I'm still waiting for someone to tell me I got it wrong. Phillip Boamah was No. 7 for Shooting Stars.

E11, I have never disputed the fact that Odegbami played No 7 as it was in those days for the Eagles but my point is and continues to be that in the glory days of Shooting Stars he played as a No 10, while Boamah was the No 7. You argue the point about my living in Ibadan having no meaning but ignoring the fact that I went to Liberty Stadium to watch Shooting Stars on several occasions.
My point once again, is that Odegbami was a natural forward playing on the wings for the national team hence his high returns on goals while Finidi was a pure winger/ Right sided midfielder, and the best comparison would be through stats that reveal how many assists he had and the influence his assists had on the result of the national team matches rather than just using mathematical7 goals to declare he was a better player for Nigeria. The relevant stats will reveal who had more of an impact for Nigeria.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:23 pm 
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Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Dammy,

I do not dispute that Segun played No. 10 for IICC on several occasions. In fact, the start of his career at NTC and Housing was spent there. That is and was never in dispute. The point is that he played No. 7 for IICC as I have pointed out on several occasions. I have also noted that Boamah did not always play No. 7 for 3Sc as well.

In any case, let us stay on the issue -- what position did Segun play for NIGERIA (i.e. Eagles not IICC) given that the debate here is about all time Nigeria. Glad that you finally came around to the fact that he predominantly played at No. 7 for Nigeria except for that 1980 final given Onyedika's ineffectiveness and Gloria re-jigging the lineup to confuse the Algerians to great effect.

I have nothing else to add, except if there is something new on this matter worth discussing.

Dammy wrote:
Lolly wrote:
Dammy, it was well recorded that Muda was used as a decoy 9 at the AFCON final. A tactical decision. Odegbami confirmed the same in the interview below.

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2020/03/eve ... hat-night/

Quote:
We go through very light training, mostly of set-pieces, rehearsals of specific runs down the flanks with crosses to connect the waiting head of our central striker for that match, Muda Lawal, practicing to play that position for the first time in the championship.

Otto Gloria has something up his sleeve. He is changing our pattern for this final match. Muda, the best defensive midfield player probably in Nigeria’s history, is being prepared to play as a decoy centre-forward! The experienced professor of football intends to throw the Algerian plans for that match into dis-array with that simple change in strategy. I can see it unfolding.


Odegbami played 7 most of his career. He was nicknamed Mathematical 7, a name he also uses. I remember a friendly match I watched at the National Stadium where Nigeria defeated Benin 7-0 and the crowd were singing Odegamni 7,7, Odegbami 7,7 when we scored the 7th goal.

Yes he could play as a striker, but he played more as a no 7 for the SE. Listen to him in the video below say he was a winger.



Some more clips of his playing time.


We are on the same page. Odegbami played No.7 for the Green Eagles but he played as an inside forward(No 10) for IICC Shooting Stars. I have put up the typical lineup of Shooting Stars in that period and I'm still waiting for someone to tell me I got it wrong. Phillip Boamah was No. 7 for Shooting Stars.

E11, I have never disputed the fact that Odegbami played No 7 as it was in those days for the Eagles but my point is and continues to be that in the glory days of Shooting Stars he played as a No 10, while Boamah was the No 7. You argue the point about my living in Ibadan having no meaning but ignoring the fact that I went to Liberty Stadium to watch Shooting Stars on several occasions.

I made my point on the issue above. I find it distractive and will leave it alone and focus on the key debate on this issue -- ALL TIME NIGERIA player. Thus, I leave the IICC issue alone. We can debate that later and I really would want a thread opened on that issue separate from this.

My point once again, is that Odegbami was a natural forward playing on the wings for the national team hence his high returns on goals while Finidi was a pure winger/Right sided midfielder, and the best comparison would be through stats that reveal how many assists he had and the influence his assists had on the result of the national team matches rather than just using mathematical7 goals to declare he was a better player for Nigeria. The relevant stats will reveal who had more of an impact for Nigeria.

No one is a natural this or that. A good player often is able to play anywhere based on time and practice. We have seen that with Segun, Owolabi, Muda, Okpala, and today we are seeing it with Iwobi. This issue about natural is to state the least BS. I know it is parroted by the media but I remain totally unconvinced.

Anyhow, let me not divert the debate.

Finidi was not a pure anything. He was a footballer who performed excellently as a rightsized midfielder as well as a winger. He was an FOOTBALLER. Odegbami was a FOOTBALLER who excelled across several forward positions. For Nigeria, he excelled as a winger where he was predominantly used. His goalscoring reflected his ability as a footballer to the point that his scoring per game average outstrips even heralded Nigerians who played more centrally including Aiyegbeni, Ike Uche, and Obafemi Martins. That, my brother is no mean feat!

Assists would be great to have but I do not have those at the moment. If you do, please share. I collect assists for the SE but my collection of such records are recent and does not do justice to either Segun or Finidi.

Beyond assists, however, there are other stats which can be used to compare the players. One that has been put up here which you have not been able to dislodge is how dominant Segun was among his peers compared to Finidi among his peers. That is not conjecture but based on awards and recognitions while playing for NIGERIA. Finidi did play for NIGERIA but fid not earn similar awards or recognitions. Now, understand that the choice of Nigeria is deliberate given that the debate is about Nigeria all-time and not IICC or Ajax or what ever else. Strictly NIGERIA

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:56 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Dammy,

I do not dispute that Segun played No. 10 for IICC on several occasions. In fact, the start of his career at NTC and Housing was spent there. That is and was never in dispute. The point is that he played No. 7 for IICC as I have pointed out on several occasions. I have also noted that Boamah did not always play No. 7 for 3Sc as well.

In any case, let us stay on the issue -- what position did Segun play for NIGERIA (i.e. Eagles not IICC) given that the debate here is about all time Nigeria. Glad that you finally came around to the fact that he predominantly played at No. 7 for Nigeria except for that 1980 final given Onyedika's ineffectiveness and Gloria re-jigging the lineup to confuse the Algerians to great effect.

I have nothing else to add, except if there is something new on this matter worth discussing.

Dammy wrote:
Lolly wrote:
Dammy, it was well recorded that Muda was used as a decoy 9 at the AFCON final. A tactical decision. Odegbami confirmed the same in the interview below.

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2020/03/eve ... hat-night/

Quote:
We go through very light training, mostly of set-pieces, rehearsals of specific runs down the flanks with crosses to connect the waiting head of our central striker for that match, Muda Lawal, practicing to play that position for the first time in the championship.

Otto Gloria has something up his sleeve. He is changing our pattern for this final match. Muda, the best defensive midfield player probably in Nigeria’s history, is being prepared to play as a decoy centre-forward! The experienced professor of football intends to throw the Algerian plans for that match into dis-array with that simple change in strategy. I can see it unfolding.


Odegbami played 7 most of his career. He was nicknamed Mathematical 7, a name he also uses. I remember a friendly match I watched at the National Stadium where Nigeria defeated Benin 7-0 and the crowd were singing Odegamni 7,7, Odegbami 7,7 when we scored the 7th goal.

Yes he could play as a striker, but he played more as a no 7 for the SE. Listen to him in the video below say he was a winger.



Some more clips of his playing time.


We are on the same page. Odegbami played No.7 for the Green Eagles but he played as an inside forward(No 10) for IICC Shooting Stars. I have put up the typical lineup of Shooting Stars in that period and I'm still waiting for someone to tell me I got it wrong. Phillip Boamah was No. 7 for Shooting Stars.

E11, I have never disputed the fact that Odegbami played No 7 as it was in those days for the Eagles but my point is and continues to be that in the glory days of Shooting Stars he played as a No 10, while Boamah was the No 7. You argue the point about my living in Ibadan having no meaning but ignoring the fact that I went to Liberty Stadium to watch Shooting Stars on several occasions.

I made my point on the issue above. I find it distractive and will leave it alone and focus on the key debate on this issue -- ALL TIME NIGERIA player. Thus, I leave the IICC issue alone. We can debate that later and I really would want a thread opened on that issue separate from this.

My point once again, is that Odegbami was a natural forward playing on the wings for the national team hence his high returns on goals while Finidi was a pure winger/Right sided midfielder, and the best comparison would be through stats that reveal how many assists he had and the influence his assists had on the result of the national team matches rather than just using mathematical7 goals to declare he was a better player for Nigeria. The relevant stats will reveal who had more of an impact for Nigeria.

No one is a natural this or that. A good player often is able to play anywhere based on time and practice. We have seen that with Segun, Owolabi, Muda, Okpala, and today we are seeing it with Iwobi. This issue about natural is to state the least BS. I know it is parroted by the media but I remain totally unconvinced.

Anyhow, let me not divert the debate.

Finidi was not a pure anything. He was a footballer who performed excellently as a rightsized midfielder as well as a winger. He was an FOOTBALLER. Odegbami was a FOOTBALLER who excelled across several forward positions. For Nigeria, he excelled as a winger where he was predominantly used. His goalscoring reflected his ability as a footballer to the point that his scoring per game average outstrips even heralded Nigerians who played more centrally including Aiyegbeni, Ike Uche, and Obafemi Martins. That, my brother is no mean feat!

Assists would be great to have but I do not have those at the moment. If you do, please share. I collect assists for the SE but my collection of such records are recent and does not do justice to either Segun or Finidi.

Beyond assists, however, there are other stats which can be used to compare the players. One that has been put up here which you have not been able to dislodge is how dominant Segun was among his peers compared to Finidi among his peers. That is not conjecture but based on awards and recognitions while playing for NIGERIA. Finidi did play for NIGERIA but fid not earn similar awards or recognitions. Now, understand that the choice of Nigeria is deliberate given that the debate is about Nigeria all-time and not IICC or Ajax or what ever else. Strictly NIGERIA

E11, let's agree to disagree. I stand firmly with my assertion that Finidi was a better player and had greater impact for Nigeria than Odegbami, who is my hero.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:20 am 
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Enugu II wrote:

Beyond assists, however, there are other stats which can be used to compare the players. One that has been put up here which you have not been able to dislodge is how dominant Segun was among his peers compared to Finidi among his peers. That is not conjecture but based on awards and recognitions while playing for NIGERIA. Finidi did play for NIGERIA but fid not earn similar awards or recognitions. Now, understand that the choice of Nigeria is deliberate given that the debate is about Nigeria all-time and not IICC or Ajax or what ever else. Strictly NIGERIA


EII,

I find this your debate with Dammy fascinating. However, let's digress a bit from what you wrote above by looking at the quality of the players available during the period each was playing for the national team. During the period Mathematical7 was playing, and IMHO, the only quality players playing with him were Okala, Chukwu, Odiye, Muda, Adokiye, Mathematical, and for a brief time, Usiyen. Now compare to Finidi when he was playing, we had Rufai, Keshi, Uche, West, Iorha, Babayaro, Oliseh, JayJay, Amuneke, Amokachi, Yekini, all of them stars that on any given day, will dominate and win a game on their own. How many of those during Odegbami's period could dominate a game and win on their own? Maybe Chukwu, Muda, and Mathematical (and for a brief period, Usiyen). Comparisons are odious but Finidi was a great player, and again, IMHO, Nigeria's dominance in Africa began with his introduction in that 7-0 mauling of Burkina Faso in Lagos and declined when Abacha pulled us out of South Africa.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:13 pm 
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Gadfly wrote:
Enugu II wrote:

Beyond assists, however, there are other stats which can be used to compare the players. One that has been put up here which you have not been able to dislodge is how dominant Segun was among his peers compared to Finidi among his peers. That is not conjecture but based on awards and recognitions while playing for NIGERIA. Finidi did play for NIGERIA but fid not earn similar awards or recognitions. Now, understand that the choice of Nigeria is deliberate given that the debate is about Nigeria all-time and not IICC or Ajax or what ever else. Strictly NIGERIA


EII,

I find this your debate with Dammy fascinating. However, let's digress a bit from what you wrote above by looking at the quality of the players available during the period each was playing for the national team. During the period Mathematical7 was playing, and IMHO, the only quality players playing with him were Okala, Chukwu, Odiye, Muda, Adokiye, Mathematical, and for a brief time, Usiyen. Now compare to Finidi when he was playing, we had Rufai, Keshi, Uche, West, Iorha, Babayaro, Oliseh, JayJay, Amuneke, Amokachi, Yekini, all of them stars that on any given day, will dominate and win a game on their own. How many of those during Odegbami's period could dominate a game and win on their own? Maybe Chukwu, Muda, and Mathematical (and for a brief period, Usiyen). Comparisons are odious but Finidi was a great player, and again, IMHO, Nigeria's dominance in Africa began with his introduction in that 7-0 mauling of Burkina Faso in Lagos and declined when Abacha pulled us out of South Africa.


Guys have forgotten the number of times fans used to call for Tijani Babangida to start ahead of Finidi. Finidi was known to go missing during games and mostly played like someone who was scared of injuries. As Yorubas will say, o man yo ese. Though a very intelligent and good player, no doubt.

Also, you can count the number of SE games where Finidi was the man of the match. Very few times in his 62 caps.

_________________
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:53 pm 
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Lolly wrote:
Guys have forgotten the number of times fans used to call for Tijani Babangida to start ahead of Finidi. Finidi was known to go missing during games and mostly played like someone who was scared of injuries. As Yorubas will say, o man yo ese. Though a very intelligent and good player, no doubt.

Also, you can count the number of SE games where Finidi was the man of the match. Very few times in his 62 caps.
Eiiiiiiiii! Alhaji!!!!!

Ẹ take ẹ easy!! :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
How many times did this happen?
As good as he was, Babangida was the 'poor man's version' of Finidi and was unfortunate to play the same position at the same time.

Its hard to recall when he was actually preferred over Finidi for reasons other than forced circumstances.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:06 pm 
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Lolly wrote:
Gadfly wrote:
Enugu II wrote:

Beyond assists, however, there are other stats which can be used to compare the players. One that has been put up here which you have not been able to dislodge is how dominant Segun was among his peers compared to Finidi among his peers. That is not conjecture but based on awards and recognitions while playing for NIGERIA. Finidi did play for NIGERIA but fid not earn similar awards or recognitions. Now, understand that the choice of Nigeria is deliberate given that the debate is about Nigeria all-time and not IICC or Ajax or what ever else. Strictly NIGERIA


EII,

I find this your debate with Dammy fascinating. However, let's digress a bit from what you wrote above by looking at the quality of the players available during the period each was playing for the national team. During the period Mathematical7 was playing, and IMHO, the only quality players playing with him were Okala, Chukwu, Odiye, Muda, Adokiye, Mathematical, and for a brief time, Usiyen. Now compare to Finidi when he was playing, we had Rufai, Keshi, Uche, West, Iorha, Babayaro, Oliseh, JayJay, Amuneke, Amokachi, Yekini, all of them stars that on any given day, will dominate and win a game on their own. How many of those during Odegbami's period could dominate a game and win on their own? Maybe Chukwu, Muda, and Mathematical (and for a brief period, Usiyen). Comparisons are odious but Finidi was a great player, and again, IMHO, Nigeria's dominance in Africa began with his introduction in that 7-0 mauling of Burkina Faso in Lagos and declined when Abacha pulled us out of South Africa.


Guys have forgotten the number of times fans used to call for Tijani Babangida to start ahead of Finidi. Finidi was known to go missing during games and mostly played like someone who was scared of injuries. As Yorubas will say, o man yo ese. Though a very intelligent and good player, no doubt.

Also, you can count the number of SE games where Finidi was the man of the match. Very few times in his 62 caps.

Fans clamoured for the inclusion of Babangida ahead of Ikpeba before USA94 and it was not ahead of Finidi.

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