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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:34 pm 
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YUJAM wrote:
The best right winger Nigeria has produced in my view. Even in Europe, he was a cut above

Bros...You might want to google Segun Odegbami on Youtube and then facebook it to your twitter 8-)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:34 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
Aswani wrote:
Dammy,

David Beckham was voted second best player in the world twice. This was a person that wasn't even the second best midfielder at any point at his clubside then. That is also why all of this voting by whoever doesn't register with me.

Finidi was a cog in the wheel with every Naija team he played in. Segun Odegami was the wheel at times.

To those who see fit to denigrate African football of the 70's and 80's just to belittle Segun Odegbami's ability and give fuel to pro-Finidi arguments, .
Tell us who here is "belittling Segun Odegbami's ability".
You accuse others of 'unfair play' only to go ahead and unfairly misrepresent their position?
Or are you saying that the audacity of the mere suggestion that Finidi was a better right winger is "belittling" in itself? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:


Quote:
how come Finidi's CV doesn't show him at clubs like Milan, Inter, Juve, Barcelona or Real Madrid. The cream of football clubs when he was at the top of his game.
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
Are you a Generation Z pikin??
Chief, we are not talking about 2021 here.
Or any time post-millennium.

Because Ajax in Finidi's time was at the same level of greatness as the teams you mention. Probably even greater. Ajax beat Real Madrid like they stole something en route to beating AC Milan in the UEFA Champions League final of '95.
The following year in '96, they lost to Juventus on penalties aet, again in the final.
See how you are downplaying it all simply to enable your argument. :lol:

Quote:
Finidi was a good player but even as a right winger that made it in Europe, I cannot rate him above Segun Odegbami
If anyone is "belittling" anybody here, it is you belittling Finidi.
Not because you don't rate him above Odegbami, no.
But because you casually minimise his achievements.

He played and excelled with and against some of the world's greatest players of his era en route to winning the UEFA Champions league in '95 against Milan and runners up in '96, losing on penalties to Juventus.
The likes of Seerdorf, Kluivert, Maldini, Desailly, Simone, Vialli, Deschamps, Davids, Riijkard, Ravanelli, Overmars, Baresi, Costacurta, van der Saar, the de Boer brothers, Del Pierro..... all household names globally at the time. :idea:

He was not a mere passenger. He was one of them - attested to by the fact that he was rated above another great Luis Figo, as "the best right winger in the world".

So when you say he was "good" and then say he merely "made it in Europe", you obviously and deliberately downplay his achievements. Numerous Nigerian players are good and have "made it in Europe". :idea:


Damunk,

Both in this thread and the other one, the term "local champion" has been used so whilst I shouldn't have seemingly belittled Finidi in a tit for tat manner, I was just trying to state that it wasn't as if he was the best thing since sliced bread.

I am not downplaying Finidi's achievements either, an African player holding down a position for an European Cup winning team like Ajax is not easy. However, the fact is that Ajax players all swooped to the best leagues in the world (SERIE A) and that included Nnamdi Kanu who went to Inter.

And all this rating above Figo stuff is just muddying the waters and doesn't mean anything as I stated with Beckham.

Finidi is a great player but in my humble opinion, Segun Odegami is a better player.

It's a good discussion we are having but I am yet to read anything to convince me otherwise. Playing for Ajax doesn't make Finidi better than Odegbami.

We have professionals people of a previous generation who were happy to leave Europe and the US to go back to Naija to work in the 70's because life was a lot better then in Naija. To paraphrase Oloye, Segun Odegbami did not need to play professional football in Europe, that is something people need to realise in comparing both players.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:39 pm 
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YUJAM wrote:
I haven't see much footage of Odegbami. But from what I've seen it looks likes he was a great dribbler.

I don't think Finidi dribbled much but his speed, off the ball running and tactical intelligence, crossing and passing + dead ball ability are some of the best I've seen of any African winger. And I've been watching football for ages

Bro...the main difference was that at the time Odegbami played Nigerian footballers were well taken care of at home, the football league was hot and the economy was decent. Odegbami was once rated 3rd best winger in the world behind Brazil's Tati and Kevin Keegan...this from playing in the local league. His was equally as fast as Finidi, was a better dribbler and a massive goal threat.. the best defenders on the continent simply wanted none of him. It's not just about the dribbling..right foot, left foot, header. He's one of those players you cant measure on the simple platform of playing in Europe or not...

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:50 pm 
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Aswani wrote:
Damunk wrote:
Aswani wrote:
Dammy,

David Beckham was voted second best player in the world twice. This was a person that wasn't even the second best midfielder at any point at his clubside then. That is also why all of this voting by whoever doesn't register with me.

Finidi was a cog in the wheel with every Naija team he played in. Segun Odegami was the wheel at times.

To those who see fit to denigrate African football of the 70's and 80's just to belittle Segun Odegbami's ability and give fuel to pro-Finidi arguments, .
Tell us who here is "belittling Segun Odegbami's ability".
You accuse others of 'unfair play' only to go ahead and unfairly misrepresent their position?
Or are you saying that the audacity of the mere suggestion that Finidi was a better right winger is "belittling" in itself? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:


Quote:
how come Finidi's CV doesn't show him at clubs like Milan, Inter, Juve, Barcelona or Real Madrid. The cream of football clubs when he was at the top of his game.
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
Are you a Generation Z pikin??
Chief, we are not talking about 2021 here.
Or any time post-millennium.

Because Ajax in Finidi's time was at the same level of greatness as the teams you mention. Probably even greater. Ajax beat Real Madrid like they stole something en route to beating AC Milan in the UEFA Champions League final of '95.
The following year in '96, they lost to Juventus on penalties aet, again in the final.
See how you are downplaying it all simply to enable your argument. :lol:

Quote:
Finidi was a good player but even as a right winger that made it in Europe, I cannot rate him above Segun Odegbami
If anyone is "belittling" anybody here, it is you belittling Finidi.
Not because you don't rate him above Odegbami, no.
But because you casually minimise his achievements.

He played and excelled with and against some of the world's greatest players of his era en route to winning the UEFA Champions league in '95 against Milan and runners up in '96, losing on penalties to Juventus.
The likes of Seerdorf, Kluivert, Maldini, Desailly, Simone, Vialli, Deschamps, Davids, Riijkard, Ravanelli, Overmars, Baresi, Costacurta, van der Saar, the de Boer brothers, Del Pierro..... all household names globally at the time. :idea:

He was not a mere passenger. He was one of them - attested to by the fact that he was rated above another great Luis Figo, as "the best right winger in the world".

So when you say he was "good" and then say he merely "made it in Europe", you obviously and deliberately downplay his achievements. Numerous Nigerian players are good and have "made it in Europe". :idea:


Damunk,

Both in this thread and the other one, the term "local champion" has been used so whilst I shouldn't have seemingly belittled Finidi in a tit for tat manner, I was just trying to state that it wasn't as if he was the best thing since sliced bread.

I am not downplaying Finidi's achievements either, an African player holding down a position for an European Cup winning team like Ajax is not easy. However, the fact is that Ajax players all swooped to the best leagues in the world (SERIE A) and that included Nnamdi Kanu who went to Inter.

And all this rating above Figo stuff is just muddying the waters and doesn't mean anything as I stated with Beckham.

Finidi is a great player but in my humble opinion, Segun Odegami is a better player.

It's a good discussion we are having but I am yet to read anything to convince me otherwise. Playing for Ajax doesn't make Finidi better than Odegbami.

We have professionals people of a previous generation who were happy to leave Europe and the US to go back to Naija to work in the 70's because life was a lot better then in Naija. To paraphrase Oloye, Segun Odegbami did not need to play professional football in Europe, that is something people need to realise in comparing both players.
I respect your opinion, but unfortunately do not agree with it.
Anyway, I said at the beginning that this was an unwinnable debate whichever way one argues. :D

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:03 am 
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paj wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
I haven't see much footage of Odegbami. But from what I've seen it looks likes he was a great dribbler.

I don't think Finidi dribbled much but his speed, off the ball running and tactical intelligence, crossing and passing + dead ball ability are some of the best I've seen of any African winger. And I've been watching football for ages

Bro...the main difference was that at the time Odegbami played Nigerian footballers were well taken care of at home, the football league was hot and the economy was decent. Odegbami was once rated 3rd best winger in the world behind Brazil's Tati and Kevin Keegan...this from playing in the local league. His was equally as fast as Finidi, was a better dribbler and a massive goal threat.. the best defenders on the continent simply wanted none of him. It's not just about the dribbling..right foot, left foot, header. He's one of those players you cant measure on the simple platform of playing in Europe or not...



So it's not today you started smoking bad cigarrete? Who did the rating?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:18 am 
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1naija wrote:
paj wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
I haven't see much footage of Odegbami. But from what I've seen it looks likes he was a great dribbler.

I don't think Finidi dribbled much but his speed, off the ball running and tactical intelligence, crossing and passing + dead ball ability are some of the best I've seen of any African winger. And I've been watching football for ages

Bro...the main difference was that at the time Odegbami played Nigerian footballers were well taken care of at home, the football league was hot and the economy was decent. Odegbami was once rated 3rd best winger in the world behind Brazil's Tati and Kevin Keegan...this from playing in the local league. His was equally as fast as Finidi, was a better dribbler and a massive goal threat.. the best defenders on the continent simply wanted none of him. It's not just about the dribbling..right foot, left foot, header. He's one of those players you cant measure on the simple platform of playing in Europe or not...



So it's not today you started smoking bad cigarrete? Who did the rating?
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:54 pm 
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He carried Betis for 6 years..

Aswani wrote:
Finidi never solely carried any of the teams he played for, maybe Sharks. Odegbami carried IICC on his back for a fair period until it destroyed his knees.

I am going for Odegbami with this one due to that.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:05 pm 
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The standard of African football at the time was low. Guys like Segun were not as technical as Findi who wasn’t only a star in African arena, he excelled at the world stage. They were better passers, crossers, shooters off the ball, off the ball runners and more. Guys like Finidi likely had a broader understanding the game because they had better facilities and exposure. They had a better football education around the fundamentals of the game.

Who knows? If Segun had the facilities that Finidi had, he may have surpassed the level that Finidi achieved. But the truth is given the level that Finidi achieved greatness, it is difficult to see how Segun can be rated above Finidi.


paj wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
I haven't see much footage of Odegbami. But from what I've seen it looks likes he was a great dribbler.

I don't think Finidi dribbled much but his speed, off the ball running and tactical intelligence, crossing and passing + dead ball ability are some of the best I've seen of any African winger. And I've been watching football for ages

Bro...the main difference was that at the time Odegbami played Nigerian footballers were well taken care of at home, the football league was hot and the economy was decent. Odegbami was once rated 3rd best winger in the world behind Brazil's Tati and Kevin Keegan...this from playing in the local league. His was equally as fast as Finidi, was a better dribbler and a massive goal threat.. the best defenders on the continent simply wanted none of him. It's not just about the dribbling..right foot, left foot, header. He's one of those players you cant measure on the simple platform of playing in Europe or not...

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:17 am 
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YUJAM wrote:
The standard of African football at the time was low. Guys like Segun were not as technical as Findi who wasn’t only a star in African arena, he excelled at the world stage. They were better passers, crossers, shooters off the ball, off the ball runners and more. Guys like Finidi likely had a broader understanding the game because they had better facilities and exposure. They had a better football education around the fundamentals of the game.

Who knows? If Segun had the facilities that Finidi had, he may have surpassed the level that Finidi achieved. But the truth is given the level that Finidi achieved greatness, it is difficult to see how Segun can be rated above Finidi.


paj wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
I haven't see much footage of Odegbami. But from what I've seen it looks likes he was a great dribbler.

I don't think Finidi dribbled much but his speed, off the ball running and tactical intelligence, crossing and passing + dead ball ability are some of the best I've seen of any African winger. And I've been watching football for ages

Bro...the main difference was that at the time Odegbami played Nigerian footballers were well taken care of at home, the football league was hot and the economy was decent. Odegbami was once rated 3rd best winger in the world behind Brazil's Tati and Kevin Keegan...this from playing in the local league. His was equally as fast as Finidi, was a better dribbler and a massive goal threat.. the best defenders on the continent simply wanted none of him. It's not just about the dribbling..right foot, left foot, header. He's one of those players you cant measure on the simple platform of playing in Europe or not...

...Bros..they played in the same league and people who watched in the same league can tell U Segun was better. Finidi came in at an era when football exodus in Nigeria was picking up so it was more lucrative to play abroad...there are TONS of Nigeria who would have gone abroad if they saw the incentive..heck Segun was writing exams at the Polytechnic will also a player at IICC with folks waiting on him to finish his yeye paper so he could go rescue Sootin(IICC Shooting) who were 2 nil down to Water Corporation. Thompson Usiyen, one of Nigeria's best 9's, left to go school abroad...there were others like him...football simply wasn't viewed as a long term career move back in Nigeria then or people like Henry Nwosu would have moved abroad. Yekini was already banging in goals as early as 1983.."Abroad" to him was Ivory Coast.. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: ..dont let the glitter fool U bro...Mathematical was thei isht...

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:45 am 
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paj wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
The standard of African football at the time was low. Guys like Segun were not as technical as Findi who wasn’t only a star in African arena, he excelled at the world stage. They were better passers, crossers, shooters off the ball, off the ball runners and more. Guys like Finidi likely had a broader understanding the game because they had better facilities and exposure. They had a better football education around the fundamentals of the game.

Who knows? If Segun had the facilities that Finidi had, he may have surpassed the level that Finidi achieved. But the truth is given the level that Finidi achieved greatness, it is difficult to see how Segun can be rated above Finidi.


paj wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
I haven't see much footage of Odegbami. But from what I've seen it looks likes he was a great dribbler.

I don't think Finidi dribbled much but his speed, off the ball running and tactical intelligence, crossing and passing + dead ball ability are some of the best I've seen of any African winger. And I've been watching football for ages

Bro...the main difference was that at the time Odegbami played Nigerian footballers were well taken care of at home, the football league was hot and the economy was decent. Odegbami was once rated 3rd best winger in the world behind Brazil's Tati and Kevin Keegan...this from playing in the local league. His was equally as fast as Finidi, was a better dribbler and a massive goal threat.. the best defenders on the continent simply wanted none of him. It's not just about the dribbling..right foot, left foot, header. He's one of those players you cant measure on the simple platform of playing in Europe or not...

...Bros..they played in the same league and people who watched in the same league can tell U Segun was better. Finidi came in at an era when football exodus in Nigeria was picking up so it was more lucrative to play abroad...there are TONS of Nigeria who would have gone abroad if they saw the incentive..heck Segun was writing exams at the Polytechnic will also a player at IICC with folks waiting on him to finish his yeye paper so he could go rescue Sootin(IICC Shooting) who were 2 nil down to Water Corporation. Thompson Usiyen, one of Nigeria's best 9's, left to go school abroad...there were others like him...football simply wasn't viewed as a long term career move back in Nigeria then or people like Henry Nwosu would have moved abroad. Yekini was already banging in goals as early as 1983.."Abroad" to him was Ivory Coast.. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: ..dont let the glitter fool U bro...Mathematical was thei isht...


The thing that is shocking is that playing abroad even in those days did not even make you better than those playing in Nigeria. Christian Nwokocha was at Sporting Lisbon at that time while his Nigerian peers were playing for local clubs. Yet whenever Christian was home he was decidedly on the bench as a reserve whereas playing from the likes of IICC and Rangers were starting.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:03 am 
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Enugu II wrote:
paj wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
The standard of African football at the time was low. Guys like Segun were not as technical as Findi who wasn’t only a star in African arena, he excelled at the world stage. They were better passers, crossers, shooters off the ball, off the ball runners and more. Guys like Finidi likely had a broader understanding the game because they had better facilities and exposure. They had a better football education around the fundamentals of the game.

Who knows? If Segun had the facilities that Finidi had, he may have surpassed the level that Finidi achieved. But the truth is given the level that Finidi achieved greatness, it is difficult to see how Segun can be rated above Finidi.


paj wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
I haven't see much footage of Odegbami. But from what I've seen it looks likes he was a great dribbler.

I don't think Finidi dribbled much but his speed, off the ball running and tactical intelligence, crossing and passing + dead ball ability are some of the best I've seen of any African winger. And I've been watching football for ages

Bro...the main difference was that at the time Odegbami played Nigerian footballers were well taken care of at home, the football league was hot and the economy was decent. Odegbami was once rated 3rd best winger in the world behind Brazil's Tati and Kevin Keegan...this from playing in the local league. His was equally as fast as Finidi, was a better dribbler and a massive goal threat.. the best defenders on the continent simply wanted none of him. It's not just about the dribbling..right foot, left foot, header. He's one of those players you cant measure on the simple platform of playing in Europe or not...

...Bros..they played in the same league and people who watched in the same league can tell U Segun was better. Finidi came in at an era when football exodus in Nigeria was picking up so it was more lucrative to play abroad...there are TONS of Nigeria who would have gone abroad if they saw the incentive..heck Segun was writing exams at the Polytechnic will also a player at IICC with folks waiting on him to finish his yeye paper so he could go rescue Sootin(IICC Shooting) who were 2 nil down to Water Corporation. Thompson Usiyen, one of Nigeria's best 9's, left to go school abroad...there were others like him...football simply wasn't viewed as a long term career move back in Nigeria then or people like Henry Nwosu would have moved abroad. Yekini was already banging in goals as early as 1983.."Abroad" to him was Ivory Coast.. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: ..dont let the glitter fool U bro...Mathematical was thei isht...


The thing that is shocking is that playing abroad even in those days did not even make you better than those playing in Nigeria. Christian Nwokocha was at Sporting Lisbon at that time while his Nigerian peers were playing for local clubs. Yet whenever Christian was home he was decidedly on the bench as a reserve whereas playing from the likes of IICC and Rangers were starting.

E11, this is exactly what Ed Dove accused you if, embellishment of facts! Please tell us which match or matches that Christian Nwokocha was invited for and sat on the bench for his Nigerian based peers.
He was invited for that crucial WCQ against Algeria in Lagos in 1981 and he started the match which we lost 2-0!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:39 pm 
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Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
paj wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
The standard of African football at the time was low. Guys like Segun were not as technical as Findi who wasn’t only a star in African arena, he excelled at the world stage. They were better passers, crossers, shooters off the ball, off the ball runners and more. Guys like Finidi likely had a broader understanding the game because they had better facilities and exposure. They had a better football education around the fundamentals of the game.

Who knows? If Segun had the facilities that Finidi had, he may have surpassed the level that Finidi achieved. But the truth is given the level that Finidi achieved greatness, it is difficult to see how Segun can be rated above Finidi.


paj wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
I haven't see much footage of Odegbami. But from what I've seen it looks likes he was a great dribbler.

I don't think Finidi dribbled much but his speed, off the ball running and tactical intelligence, crossing and passing + dead ball ability are some of the best I've seen of any African winger. And I've been watching football for ages

Bro...the main difference was that at the time Odegbami played Nigerian footballers were well taken care of at home, the football league was hot and the economy was decent. Odegbami was once rated 3rd best winger in the world behind Brazil's Tati and Kevin Keegan...this from playing in the local league. His was equally as fast as Finidi, was a better dribbler and a massive goal threat.. the best defenders on the continent simply wanted none of him. It's not just about the dribbling..right foot, left foot, header. He's one of those players you cant measure on the simple platform of playing in Europe or not...

...Bros..they played in the same league and people who watched in the same league can tell U Segun was better. Finidi came in at an era when football exodus in Nigeria was picking up so it was more lucrative to play abroad...there are TONS of Nigeria who would have gone abroad if they saw the incentive..heck Segun was writing exams at the Polytechnic will also a player at IICC with folks waiting on him to finish his yeye paper so he could go rescue Sootin(IICC Shooting) who were 2 nil down to Water Corporation. Thompson Usiyen, one of Nigeria's best 9's, left to go school abroad...there were others like him...football simply wasn't viewed as a long term career move back in Nigeria then or people like Henry Nwosu would have moved abroad. Yekini was already banging in goals as early as 1983.."Abroad" to him was Ivory Coast.. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: ..dont let the glitter fool U bro...Mathematical was thei isht...


The thing that is shocking is that playing abroad even in those days did not even make you better than those playing in Nigeria. Christian Nwokocha was at Sporting Lisbon at that time while his Nigerian peers were playing for local clubs. Yet whenever Christian was home he was decidedly on the bench as a reserve whereas playing from the likes of IICC and Rangers were starting.

E11, this is exactly what Ed Dove accused you if, embellishment of facts! Please tell us which match or matches that Christian Nwokocha was invited for and sat on the bench for his Nigerian based peers.
He was invited for that crucial WCQ against Algeria in Lagos in 1981 and he started the match which we lost 2-0!



See below for games in 1981. I have nothing else to add.


Quote:
3-0 v Liberia (10/3) Calabar, NIGERIA (10/3) F
HT: 2-0 att: ? G: 35th, 44th, 62nd M. Lawal

Best Ogedegbe (1) (73 Peter Rufai) – Kenneth Boardman (2), Christian Chukwu (66 Stephen Keshi), Tunde Bamidele (4), Okey Isima (3) –Tunji Banjo (73 Henry Nwosu), Muda Lawal (14), Andrew Atuegbu (9) (66 Aloy Atuegbu) – Segun Odegbami (cpt) (73 Christian Nwokocha), Thompson Usiyen (15), Felix Owolabi (11).

0-2 v Algeria (10/10) Lagos, NIGERIA (10/10) WCQ
HT: 0-2 att: 80,000 G: 0

Best Ogedegbe (1) – Sylvanus Okpala (2), Christian Chukwu (5) (46 Stephen Keshi (12)), Tunji Bamidele (6), Okey Isima (3) – Tunji Banjo (4), Andrew Atuegbu (8), Muda Lawal (10) – Segun Odegbami (cpt - 7), Thompson Usiyen (9), Felix Owolabi (14) (46 Christian Nwokocha (11)).


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:29 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
paj wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
The standard of African football at the time was low. Guys like Segun were not as technical as Findi who wasn’t only a star in African arena, he excelled at the world stage. They were better passers, crossers, shooters off the ball, off the ball runners and more. Guys like Finidi likely had a broader understanding the game because they had better facilities and exposure. They had a better football education around the fundamentals of the game.

Who knows? If Segun had the facilities that Finidi had, he may have surpassed the level that Finidi achieved. But the truth is given the level that Finidi achieved greatness, it is difficult to see how Segun can be rated above Finidi.


paj wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
I haven't see much footage of Odegbami. But from what I've seen it looks likes he was a great dribbler.

I don't think Finidi dribbled much but his speed, off the ball running and tactical intelligence, crossing and passing + dead ball ability are some of the best I've seen of any African winger. And I've been watching football for ages

Bro...the main difference was that at the time Odegbami played Nigerian footballers were well taken care of at home, the football league was hot and the economy was decent. Odegbami was once rated 3rd best winger in the world behind Brazil's Tati and Kevin Keegan...this from playing in the local league. His was equally as fast as Finidi, was a better dribbler and a massive goal threat.. the best defenders on the continent simply wanted none of him. It's not just about the dribbling..right foot, left foot, header. He's one of those players you cant measure on the simple platform of playing in Europe or not...

...Bros..they played in the same league and people who watched in the same league can tell U Segun was better. Finidi came in at an era when football exodus in Nigeria was picking up so it was more lucrative to play abroad...there are TONS of Nigeria who would have gone abroad if they saw the incentive..heck Segun was writing exams at the Polytechnic will also a player at IICC with folks waiting on him to finish his yeye paper so he could go rescue Sootin(IICC Shooting) who were 2 nil down to Water Corporation. Thompson Usiyen, one of Nigeria's best 9's, left to go school abroad...there were others like him...football simply wasn't viewed as a long term career move back in Nigeria then or people like Henry Nwosu would have moved abroad. Yekini was already banging in goals as early as 1983.."Abroad" to him was Ivory Coast.. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: ..dont let the glitter fool U bro...Mathematical was thei isht...


The thing that is shocking is that playing abroad even in those days did not even make you better than those playing in Nigeria. Christian Nwokocha was at Sporting Lisbon at that time while his Nigerian peers were playing for local clubs. Yet whenever Christian was home he was decidedly on the bench as a reserve whereas playing from the likes of IICC and Rangers were starting.

E11, this is exactly what Ed Dove accused you if, embellishment of facts! Please tell us which match or matches that Christian Nwokocha was invited for and sat on the bench for his Nigerian based peers.
He was invited for that crucial WCQ against Algeria in Lagos in 1981 and he started the match which we lost 2-0!



See below for games in 1981. I have nothing else to add.


Quote:
3-0 v Liberia (10/3) Calabar, NIGERIA (10/3) F
HT: 2-0 att: ? G: 35th, 44th, 62nd M. Lawal

Best Ogedegbe (1) (73 Peter Rufai) – Kenneth Boardman (2), Christian Chukwu (66 Stephen Keshi), Tunde Bamidele (4), Okey Isima (3) –Tunji Banjo (73 Henry Nwosu), Muda Lawal (14), Andrew Atuegbu (9) (66 Aloy Atuegbu) – Segun Odegbami (cpt) (73 Christian Nwokocha), Thompson Usiyen (15), Felix Owolabi (11).

0-2 v Algeria (10/10) Lagos, NIGERIA (10/10) WCQprep
HT: 0-2 att: 80,000 G: 0

Best Ogedegbe (1) – Sylvanus Okpala (2), Christian Chukwu (5) (46 Stephen Keshi (12)), Tunji Bamidele (6), Okey Isima (3) – Tunji Banjo (4), Andrew Atuegbu (8), Muda Lawal (10) – Segun Odegbami (cpt - 7), Thompson Usiyen (9), Felix Owolabi (14) (46 Christian Nwokocha (11)).


The against Liberia was a hurriedly prepared friendly for the main match against Algeria. Even regulars like Henry Nwosu and Aloy Atuegbu came off the bench.
Your comments were as if it was a trend. Please give another example to back up your claims.
You claimed that WHENEVER he was at home as if he was invited more than once and use the example of a friendly match that the coach was using to test players for the WCQ. Please provide evidence of when he was invited for any other match. This is clear evidence of embellishment of facts to suit your narrative.
The Green Eagles played a series of friendlies before that crucial WCQ against Algeria and the reserve team of Brighton were thrashed 5-0 and 3-0 in some of the other friendlies.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:38 pm 
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Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Dammy wrote:
E11, this is exactly what Ed Dove accused you if, embellishment of facts! Please tell us which match or matches that Christian Nwokocha was invited for and sat on the bench for his Nigerian based peers.
He was invited for that crucial WCQ against Algeria in Lagos in 1981 and he started the match which we lost 2-0!



See below for games in 1981. I have nothing else to add.


Quote:
3-0 v Liberia (10/3) Calabar, NIGERIA (10/3) F
HT: 2-0 att: ? G: 35th, 44th, 62nd M. Lawal

Best Ogedegbe (1) (73 Peter Rufai) – Kenneth Boardman (2), Christian Chukwu (66 Stephen Keshi), Tunde Bamidele (4), Okey Isima (3) –Tunji Banjo (73 Henry Nwosu), Muda Lawal (14), Andrew Atuegbu (9) (66 Aloy Atuegbu) – Segun Odegbami (cpt) (73 Christian Nwokocha), Thompson Usiyen (15), Felix Owolabi (11).

0-2 v Algeria (10/10) Lagos, NIGERIA (10/10) WCQprep
HT: 0-2 att: 80,000 G: 0

Best Ogedegbe (1) – Sylvanus Okpala (2), Christian Chukwu (5) (46 Stephen Keshi (12)), Tunji Bamidele (6), Okey Isima (3) – Tunji Banjo (4), Andrew Atuegbu (8), Muda Lawal (10) – Segun Odegbami (cpt - 7), Thompson Usiyen (9), Felix Owolabi (14) (46 Christian Nwokocha (11)).


The against Liberia was a hurriedly prepared friendly for the main match against Algeria. Even regulars like Henry Nwosu and Aloy Atuegbu came off the bench.
Your comments were as if it was a trend. Please give another example to back up your claims.



LOL.

I never stated it is a trend. Read again. That is your conjecture.

If you wish to shift the goal post, again, then you ALONE will play that game. I am not interested. The point has been made and your question answered.

The point is that playing overseas does not make you automatically better than someone at home especially during that period.

You asked for when Christian did not start. I presented two examples. The point has been made I hope.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:23 pm 
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Aswani wrote:
Dammy wrote:
Aswani wrote:
Finidi never solely carried any of the teams he played for, maybe Sharks. Odegbami carried IICC on his back for a fair period until it destroyed his knees.

I am going for Odegbami with this one due to that.

Finidi was voted the best right sided midfielder in the WORLD in 1998 ahead of Figo and Zanetti!!


Dammy,

David Beckham was voted second best player in the world twice. This was a person that wasn't even the second best midfielder at any point at his clubside then. That is also why all of this voting by whoever doesn't register with me.

Finidi was a cog in the wheel with every Naija team he played in. Segun Odegami was the wheel at times.

To those who see fit to denigrate African football of the 70's and 80's just to belittle Segun Odegbami's ability and give fuel to pro-Finidi arguments, how come Finidi's CV doesn't show him at clubs like Milan, Inter, Juve, Barcelona or Real Madrid. The cream of football clubs when he was at the top of his game.

Finidi was a good player but even as a right winger that made it in Europe, I cannot rate him above Segun Odegbami.


The above highlighted sentence is a funny one. Just answer this straight forward question. Between the years of 1995 & 1996, which club was the strongest & most successful in Europe for that period? Aswani, abeg answer the question.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:05 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Dammy wrote:
E11, this is exactly what Ed Dove accused you if, embellishment of facts! Please tell us which match or matches that Christian Nwokocha was invited for and sat on the bench for his Nigerian based peers.
He was invited for that crucial WCQ against Algeria in Lagos in 1981 and he started the match which we lost 2-0!



See below for games in 1981. I have nothing else to add.


Quote:
3-0 v Liberia (10/3) Calabar, NIGERIA (10/3) F
HT: 2-0 att: ? G: 35th, 44th, 62nd M. Lawal

Best Ogedegbe (1) (73 Peter Rufai) – Kenneth Boardman (2), Christian Chukwu (66 Stephen Keshi), Tunde Bamidele (4), Okey Isima (3) –Tunji Banjo (73 Henry Nwosu), Muda Lawal (14), Andrew Atuegbu (9) (66 Aloy Atuegbu) – Segun Odegbami (cpt) (73 Christian Nwokocha), Thompson Usiyen (15), Felix Owolabi (11).

0-2 v Algeria (10/10) Lagos, NIGERIA (10/10) WCQprep
HT: 0-2 att: 80,000 G: 0

Best Ogedegbe (1) – Sylvanus Okpala (2), Christian Chukwu (5) (46 Stephen Keshi (12)), Tunji Bamidele (6), Okey Isima (3) – Tunji Banjo (4), Andrew Atuegbu (8), Muda Lawal (10) – Segun Odegbami (cpt - 7), Thompson Usiyen (9), Felix Owolabi (14) (46 Christian Nwokocha (11)).


The against Liberia was a hurriedly prepared friendly for the main match against Algeria. Even regulars like Henry Nwosu and Aloy Atuegbu came off the bench.
Your comments were as if it was a trend. Please give another example to back up your claims.



LOL.

I never stated it is a trend. Read again. That is your conjecture.

If you wish to shift the goal post, again, then you ALONE will play that game. I am not interested. The point has been made and your question answered.

The point is that playing overseas does not make you automatically better than someone at home especially during that period.

You asked for when Christian did not start. I presented two examples. The point has been made I hope.

You said WHENEVER he was invited,that means he got multiple invitations. He was only invited once and it was for that crucial WCQ against Algeria. In those days players arrive in camp 2 weeks before the match and in the process friendlies are arranged. Among those friendlies arranged was the match against Liberia in which regulars like Henry Nwosu and Aloy Atuegbu were on the bench. Matches were also played against the reserve team of Brighton, who got beaten 5-0 and 3-0.
There was only one official game and that was against Algeria, which he came on at the start of the 2nd half.
This is further evidence of embellishment of facts to suit your narratives. Please tell us which other official match Nwokocha played or maybe I don't understand the meaning of WHENEVER!!!
I respect your opinions a lot on this forum and you don't need half-truths to back up your comments.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:10 pm 
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Adisboy wrote:
Aswani wrote:
Dammy wrote:
Aswani wrote:
Finidi never solely carried any of the teams he played for, maybe Sharks. Odegbami carried IICC on his back for a fair period until it destroyed his knees.

I am going for Odegbami with this one due to that.

Finidi was voted the best right sided midfielder in the WORLD in 1998 ahead of Figo and Zanetti!!


Dammy,

David Beckham was voted second best player in the world twice. This was a person that wasn't even the second best midfielder at any point at his clubside then. That is also why all of this voting by whoever doesn't register with me.

Finidi was a cog in the wheel with every Naija team he played in. Segun Odegami was the wheel at times.

To those who see fit to denigrate African football of the 70's and 80's just to belittle Segun Odegbami's ability and give fuel to pro-Finidi arguments, how come Finidi's CV doesn't show him at clubs like Milan, Inter, Juve, Barcelona or Real Madrid. The cream of football clubs when he was at the top of his game.

Finidi was a good player but even as a right winger that made it in Europe, I cannot rate him above Segun Odegbami.


The above highlighted sentence is a funny one. Just answer this straight forward question. Between the years of 1995 & 1996, which club was the strongest & most successful in Europe for that period? Aswani, abeg answer the question.
I pointed out this very cogent fact but it seems it isn't relevant. :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:46 pm 
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Adisboy wrote:
Aswani wrote:
Dammy wrote:
Aswani wrote:
Finidi never solely carried any of the teams he played for, maybe Sharks. Odegbami carried IICC on his back for a fair period until it destroyed his knees.

I am going for Odegbami with this one due to that.

Finidi was voted the best right sided midfielder in the WORLD in 1998 ahead of Figo and Zanetti!!


Dammy,

David Beckham was voted second best player in the world twice. This was a person that wasn't even the second best midfielder at any point at his clubside then. That is also why all of this voting by whoever doesn't register with me.

Finidi was a cog in the wheel with every Naija team he played in. Segun Odegami was the wheel at times.

To those who see fit to denigrate African football of the 70's and 80's just to belittle Segun Odegbami's ability and give fuel to pro-Finidi arguments, how come Finidi's CV doesn't show him at clubs like Milan, Inter, Juve, Barcelona or Real Madrid. The cream of football clubs when he was at the top of his game.


Finidi was a good player but even as a right winger that made it in Europe, I cannot rate him above Segun Odegbami.


The above highlighted sentence is a funny one. Just answer this straight forward question. Between the years of 1995 & 1996, which club was the strongest & most successful in Europe for that period? Aswani, abeg answer the question.


Adisboy,

Two answers (By the way Damunk, I wasn't ignoring you. I didn't respond because you rounded things up perfectly by saying we respect each others views but we can't agree):

1) Two years is nowhere near enough to be claiming a team as the consistently absolute best in anything, extend it to a 4 year period at least.

2) You surely are not putting forward an argument that because Ajax was dominant, so was Finidi. The Ajax team had super players all over the pitch, Finidi didn't carry or make Ajax.

I hate to repeat this, as it sounds like Finidi bashing, but there is a reason why the big spending top clubs in Europe didn't splurge out for him as they did for the rest of his team mates when that Ajax team broke up. Some of those guys also played for multiple "big" clubs.

Also, Van Gaal went to Barcelona and although a fair few of his Ajax players ended up there, Finidi didn't. Let's bear that in mind too when we start making Finidi out to be greater than he was.

I also have vague recollections of reading somewhere about Allan Hawkes looking to take both Segun Odegbami and one other (might be Muda Lawal) back to England after his first stint at Shooting ended. Who knows what direction their careers would have gone but again I would paraphrase Oloye, they did not need to better their lives playing abroad.

Finidi was a great player but Odegbami was even greater and the margin isn't a small one, that is my humble opinion.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:43 pm 
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Segun Odegbami played in 2 WCQ campaigns (1978 & 1982) for Nigeria and we qualified for neither.
Finidi played in 3 WCQ campaigns ( 1994, 1998 & 2002) and we qualified for all 3.
If that should reveal who had the greater impact. In 1981, we brought back virtually all our professional players to join a squad that were African champions in the final WCQ against Algeria. Odegbami played both matches and had no impact as we lost 2-0 and 2-1 to crash out.
In 1993, Nigeria played the most important match in it's football history against Algeria away from home. Nigeria got the result in needed, a 1-1 draw to qualify for it's first ever world cup. Guess who scored the crucial goal? Finidi, now that's IMPACT!!!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:46 pm 
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Adisboy wrote:
Aswani wrote:
To those who see fit to denigrate African football of the 70's and 80's just to belittle Segun Odegbami's ability and give fuel to pro-Finidi arguments, how come Finidi's CV doesn't show him at clubs like Milan, Inter, Juve, Barcelona or Real Madrid. The cream of football clubs when he was at the top of his game.

Finidi was a good player but even as a right winger that made it in Europe, I cannot rate him above Segun Odegbami.


The above highlighted sentence is a funny one. Just answer this straight forward question. Between the years of 1995 & 1996, which club was the strongest & most successful in Europe for that period? Aswani, abeg answer the question.


Actually, when Finidi's contract finished at Ajax, Real Madrid wanted him but they could not agree on personal terms hence his going to Betis. The life of the footballer is short!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:13 am 
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Gadfly wrote:
Adisboy wrote:
Aswani wrote:
To those who see fit to denigrate African football of the 70's and 80's just to belittle Segun Odegbami's ability and give fuel to pro-Finidi arguments, how come Finidi's CV doesn't show him at clubs like Milan, Inter, Juve, Barcelona or Real Madrid. The cream of football clubs when he was at the top of his game.

Finidi was a good player but even as a right winger that made it in Europe, I cannot rate him above Segun Odegbami.


The above highlighted sentence is a funny one. Just answer this straight forward question. Between the years of 1995 & 1996, which club was the strongest & most successful in Europe for that period? Aswani, abeg answer the question.


Actually, when Finidi's contract finished at Ajax, Real Madrid wanted him but they could not agree on personal terms hence his going to Betis. The life of the footballer is short!
Actually, I wanted to suggest it could have been for all sorts of reasons, including financial terms, but that would have been mere speculation on my part because I didn't have the facts.
Thanks for pointing this out - even if you don't have the original documents to prove it to the unbelievers. :lol:

But simply based on your statement, I just found this:

Quote:
Betis pays 1,024 million for Finidi and snatches it from Madrid
SANTIAGO ROLDAN
Seville - JUL 10, 1996 - 00:00 CEST
"Ajax gives Betis Finidi's international pass. We canceled the meeting that Real Madrid has requested." With this statement, the Dutch club yesterday settled the future of Finidi, which was about to close an agreement with Madrid when Betis crossed the road and meteorically sealed a 1,024 million pesetas operation. Now, Ruiz de Lopera, president of Betis, has set a priority: keeping Alfonso.
https://elpais.com/diario/1996/07/10/de ... 50215.html

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:50 am 
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I was going to respond to Gadfly and Damunk but reading my proposed post back, I realise I would be doing Finidi a lot of disservice (I accept I already have as pointed out earlier by Damunk which wasn't my intention).

I take back what I have said in this thread about a super Naija player who has always behaved impeccably and carried himself well (going by how much he was loved at Betis at least) on and off the pitch.

I still rate Segun Odegbami ahead of him though.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:08 am 
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Dammy wrote:
Segun Odegbami played in 2 WCQ campaigns (1978 & 1982) for Nigeria and we qualified for neither.
Finidi played in 3 WCQ campaigns ( 1994, 1998 & 2002) and we qualified for all 3.
If that should reveal who had the greater impact. In 1981, we brought back virtually all our professional players to join a squad that were African champions in the final WCQ against Algeria. Odegbami played both matches and had no impact as we lost 2-0 and 2-1 to crash out.
In 1993, Nigeria played the most important match in it's football history against Algeria away from home. Nigeria got the result in needed, a 1-1 draw to qualify for it's first ever world cup. Guess who scored the crucial goal? Finidi, now that's IMPACT!!!


You surprise me with this your analysis. I wouldn't have expected it from someone like you wey sabi bolu. :lol:

Qualifying berths for Africa

1978 - 1
1982 - 2
1994, 1998, 2002 - 5

George Weah did not qualify Liberia for W/C and only for one ANC, so we can conclude he wasn't a great player. Is that so?

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