Fire Rohr

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Otitokoro
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Re: Fire Rohr

Post by Otitokoro »

Since you're struggling to connect the dots, I'll help you...

In response to your post of the 4-4 home game tie with SL as evidence of your general argument about Rohr not being up to par and hence, should be disengaged, I posted evidence that even some of the very best teams have sometimes struggled against lower rated teams.
Germany lost yesterday at home to a team who, on average, were ranked 83 points behind them. Nigeria tied a team at home who, on average, were ranked 76 points behind them.
That's football. Stuff happens. The hiccups both Germany and Nigeria suffered does not in any way, shape or form, make either Joachim Loew or Gernot Rohr bad coaches.
Bigpokey24 wrote: this must be one of the most unintelligent post all year....my goodness, talk about gaslighting and totally deviating from the issue at hand smh
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Re: Fire Rohr

Post by Lolly »

Otitokoro wrote:Since you're struggling to connect the dots, I'll help you...

In response to your post of the 4-4 home game tie with SL as evidence of your general argument about Rohr not being up to par and hence, should be disengaged, I posted evidence that even some of the very best teams have sometimes struggled against lower rated teams.
Germany lost yesterday at home to a team who, on average, were ranked 83 points behind them. Nigeria tied a team at home who, on average, were ranked 76 points behind them.
That's football. Stuff happens. The hiccups both Germany and Nigeria suffered does not in any way, shape or form, make either Joachim Loew or Gernot Rohr bad coaches.
Bigpokey24 wrote: this must be one of the most unintelligent post all year....my goodness, talk about gaslighting and totally deviating from the issue at hand smh
FACTS not feelings. :thumbs:
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Re: Fire Rohr

Post by wanaj0 »

I don't think we should sack Rohr now. We should have done so immediately AFTER the WC. He could not get us past the first round which is similar to Onigbinde's achievements.

Also his ANC performance was just equal to the 'golden' bronze that we were used to. Considering that other coaches delivered that at less cost and with little or no support.

We had coaches that won the ANC, qualified for the 2nd round of WC and same people promoting Rohr as the best since slice bread asked for those coaches to be sacked! One even wished death on the coaches who did nothing than achieve more than what Rohr achieved with the SE.

SAD!
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Re: Fire Rohr

Post by Bigpokey24 »

wanaj0 wrote:I don't think we should sack Rohr now. We should have done so immediately AFTER the WC. He could not get us past the first round which is similar to Onigbinde's achievements.

Also his ANC performance was just equal to the 'golden' bronze that we were used to. Considering that other coaches delivered that at less cost and with little or no support.

We had coaches that won the ANC, qualified for the 2nd round of WC and same people promoting Rohr as the best since slice bread asked for those coaches to be sacked! One even wished death on the coaches who did nothing than achieve more than what Rohr achieved with the SE.

SAD!
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Re: Fire Rohr

Post by nanijoe »

We drew with SL twice...and in one instance we allowed them to score 4 goals in a little over 45 minutes...If you pencil that down to "stuff happens" , I'd like to hear what makes a bad coach in your book.

Joachim Low won the WC with Germany, so maybe in his case, "stuff happens". Rohr, greatest achievement is an ANC bronze medal, so excuse me if I'm not buying the "stuff happens" argument on his behalf
Otitokoro wrote:Since you're struggling to connect the dots, I'll help you...

In response to your post of the 4-4 home game tie with SL as evidence of your general argument about Rohr not being up to par and hence, should be disengaged, I posted evidence that even some of the very best teams have sometimes struggled against lower rated teams.
Germany lost yesterday at home to a team who, on average, were ranked 83 points behind them. Nigeria tied a team at home who, on average, were ranked 76 points behind them.
That's football. Stuff happens. The hiccups both Germany and Nigeria suffered does not in any way, shape or form, make either Joachim Loew or Gernot Rohr bad coaches.
Bigpokey24 wrote: this must be one of the most unintelligent post all year....my goodness, talk about gaslighting and totally deviating from the issue at hand smh
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Re: Fire Rohr

Post by Tobi17 »

nanijoe wrote:We drew with SL twice...and in one instance we allowed them to score 4 goals in a little over 45 minutes...If you pencil that down to "stuff happens" , I'd like to hear what makes a bad coach in your book.

Joachim Low won the WC with Germany, so maybe in his case, "stuff happens". Rohr, greatest achievement is an ANC bronze medal, so excuse me if I'm not buying the "stuff happens" argument on his behalf
Otitokoro wrote:Since you're struggling to connect the dots, I'll help you...

In response to your post of the 4-4 home game tie with SL as evidence of your general argument about Rohr not being up to par and hence, should be disengaged, I posted evidence that even some of the very best teams have sometimes struggled against lower rated teams.
Germany lost yesterday at home to a team who, on average, were ranked 83 points behind them. Nigeria tied a team at home who, on average, were ranked 76 points behind them.
That's football. Stuff happens. The hiccups both Germany and Nigeria suffered does not in any way, shape or form, make either Joachim Loew or Gernot Rohr bad coaches.
Bigpokey24 wrote: this must be one of the most unintelligent post all year....my goodness, talk about gaslighting and totally deviating from the issue at hand smh
It's very important to use the hindsight of perspective when you lots make this emotional arguments... Rohr EASILY qualified Nigeria to the last Afcon coming on the back of two consecutive failures by the team to qualify for the previous tournaments even while we were in relatively easier groups in the previous tournaments we failed to qualify for... Rohr took a completely new team of rookies and players making their AFCON debuts the exception of few veterans like Musa and Mikel. Yes we won bronze which is nothing to celebrate considering our "pedigree" but you'll be delusional to think we stood a chance against an Algerian team that is indisputably the best team in Africa right now and among the best in the world based on current form... Now your argument against Rohr will be valid if he goes to Cameroon and fails to make the finals or better still win the gaddamn gold trophy, given that he has a more settled team now (so there will be no "we're still a young team" excuses) this time... at the end the main thing is for us to WIN, does it really matter how we play to win at this point? The simple dynamics of the beautiful game of football is that teams evolve their football identities with different philosophies, it's obvious Rohr isn't your Pep Guardiola type coach who will give you attractive football, the man is an old school German so his football style will be boring and often ponderous (yet largely efficient) as we have seen with the team so far.

Let's be patient and let this man do his job, if he fails to meet his targets this time, then there will be no justifiable reason to keep him any further than his contract... firing a coach in the midst of crucial qualifiers coming at a fast pace, then factor in a world cup and AFCON just next year will be very daft, the new world class coach you folks imagine will just fall out of the sky and immediately get us playing like prime Barcelona while winning trophies left and right will never materialize... make we no dey fool ourselves and face reality!
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Re: Fire Rohr

Post by iworo »

Tobi17 wrote:
nanijoe wrote:We drew with SL twice...and in one instance we allowed them to score 4 goals in a little over 45 minutes...If you pencil that down to "stuff happens" , I'd like to hear what makes a bad coach in your book.

Joachim Low won the WC with Germany, so maybe in his case, "stuff happens". Rohr, greatest achievement is an ANC bronze medal, so excuse me if I'm not buying the "stuff happens" argument on his behalf
Otitokoro wrote:Since you're struggling to connect the dots, I'll help you...

In response to your post of the 4-4 home game tie with SL as evidence of your general argument about Rohr not being up to par and hence, should be disengaged, I posted evidence that even some of the very best teams have sometimes struggled against lower rated teams.
Germany lost yesterday at home to a team who, on average, were ranked 83 points behind them. Nigeria tied a team at home who, on average, were ranked 76 points behind them.
That's football. Stuff happens. The hiccups both Germany and Nigeria suffered does not in any way, shape or form, make either Joachim Loew or Gernot Rohr bad coaches.
Bigpokey24 wrote: this must be one of the most unintelligent post all year....my goodness, talk about gaslighting and totally deviating from the issue at hand smh
It's very important to use the hindsight of perspective when you lots make this emotional arguments... Rohr EASILY qualified Nigeria to the last Afcon coming on the back of two consecutive failures by the team to qualify for the previous tournaments even while we were in relatively easier groups in the previous tournaments we failed to qualify for... Rohr took a completely new team of rookies and players making their AFCON debuts the exception of few veterans like Musa and Mikel. Yes we won bronze which is nothing to celebrate considering our "pedigree" but you'll be delusional to think we stood a chance against an Algerian team that is indisputably the best team in Africa right now and among the best in the world based on current form... Now your argument against Rohr will be valid if he goes to Cameroon and fails to make the finals or better still win the gaddamn gold trophy, given that he has a more settled team now (so there will be no "we're still a young team" excuses) this time... at the end the main thing is for us to WIN, does it really matter how we play to win at this point? The simple dynamics of the beautiful game of football is that teams evolve their football identities with different philosophies, it's obvious Rohr isn't your Pep Guardiola type coach who will give you attractive football, the man is an old school German so his football style will be boring and often ponderous (yet largely efficient) as we have seen with the team so far.

Let's be patient and let this man do his job, if he fails to meet his targets this time, then there will be no justifiable reason to keep him any further than his contract... firing a coach in the midst of crucial qualifiers coming at a fast pace, then factor in a world cup and AFCON just next year will be very daft, the new world class coach you folks imagine will just fall out of the sky and immediately get us playing like prime Barcelona while winning trophies left and right will never materialize... make we no dey fool ourselves and face reality!

Well said bro :clap: :clap:.
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Re: Fire Rohr

Post by fabio »

Rohr qualified for AfCon after SE failed to qualify for two consecutive AfCon. Rohr won a bronze. It is hailed as an achievement.

Keshi qualified for AfCon after SE failed to qualify for one AfCon. Keshi won Gold. Rohr above achievement carries more weight.

Rohr went to his first WC and said he went to learn. 3rd in the group. We were told, he took the 2nd youngest team.

Keshi went to his 1st WC. qualified for 2nd Round. We are told, he dropped this player and took that player!

What the difference btw Rohr and Keshi. One achieved and his condemned. The other done nothing significant in tournament, he is the Hero.
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Re: Fire Rohr

Post by wanaj0 »

Tobi17 wrote:
nanijoe wrote:We drew with SL twice...and in one instance we allowed them to score 4 goals in a little over 45 minutes...If you pencil that down to "stuff happens" , I'd like to hear what makes a bad coach in your book.

Joachim Low won the WC with Germany, so maybe in his case, "stuff happens". Rohr, greatest achievement is an ANC bronze medal, so excuse me if I'm not buying the "stuff happens" argument on his behalf
Otitokoro wrote:Since you're struggling to connect the dots, I'll help you...

In response to your post of the 4-4 home game tie with SL as evidence of your general argument about Rohr not being up to par and hence, should be disengaged, I posted evidence that even some of the very best teams have sometimes struggled against lower rated teams.
Germany lost yesterday at home to a team who, on average, were ranked 83 points behind them. Nigeria tied a team at home who, on average, were ranked 76 points behind them.
That's football. Stuff happens. The hiccups both Germany and Nigeria suffered does not in any way, shape or form, make either Joachim Loew or Gernot Rohr bad coaches.
Bigpokey24 wrote: this must be one of the most unintelligent post all year....my goodness, talk about gaslighting and totally deviating from the issue at hand smh
It's very important to use the hindsight of perspective when you lots make this emotional arguments... Rohr EASILY qualified Nigeria to the last Afcon coming on the back of two consecutive failures by the team to qualify for the previous tournaments even while we were in relatively easier groups in the previous tournaments we failed to qualify for... Rohr took a completely new team of rookies and players making their AFCON debuts the exception of few veterans like Musa and Mikel. Yes we won bronze which is nothing to celebrate considering our "pedigree" but you'll be delusional to think we stood a chance against an Algerian team that is indisputably the best team in Africa right now and among the best in the world based on current form... Now your argument against Rohr will be valid if he goes to Cameroon and fails to make the finals or better still win the gaddamn gold trophy, given that he has a more settled team now (so there will be no "we're still a young team" excuses) this time... at the end the main thing is for us to WIN, does it really matter how we play to win at this point? The simple dynamics of the beautiful game of football is that teams evolve their football identities with different philosophies, it's obvious Rohr isn't your Pep Guardiola type coach who will give you attractive football, the man is an old school German so his football style will be boring and often ponderous (yet largely efficient) as we have seen with the team so far.

Let's be patient and let this man do his job, if he fails to meet his targets this time, then there will be no justifiable reason to keep him any further than his contract... firing a coach in the midst of crucial qualifiers coming at a fast pace, then factor in a world cup and AFCON just next year will be very daft, the new world class coach you folks imagine will just fall out of the sky and immediately get us playing like prime Barcelona while winning trophies left and right will never materialize... make we no dey fool ourselves and face reality!
I don't think we should sack Rohr now!

However, we don't need a world class coach to achieve what Rohr has achieved with Nigeria.

Keshi who was not considered a world class coach won the ANC at first attempt! This was without the support of NFF and fans like some on CE who were supporting the opponents against the SE. With all the saboteurs around the team he was still able to reach the 2nd round of the WC. That's something Rohr did not achieve.

We should not make it sound as if Rohr has achieved something unusual.
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Re: Fire Rohr

Post by nanijoe »

I'll be happy if Rohr can win the ANC..but I doubt that he thinks he can. There was nothing special about that Algeria team we lost to IMO, but if it makes you feel better about yourself, lets go with them being special.
No one is talking about any phantom world class coach, just a coach that has belief in his team.

In Rohr's mind, winning that bronze was huge and winning a WC game was exceptional (I don't read minds, but I can make deductions based on his statement)..

If those align with what you hope for from the SE, fine. I just personally want something different
Tobi17 wrote:
nanijoe wrote:We drew with SL twice...and in one instance we allowed them to score 4 goals in a little over 45 minutes...If you pencil that down to "stuff happens" , I'd like to hear what makes a bad coach in your book.

Joachim Low won the WC with Germany, so maybe in his case, "stuff happens". Rohr, greatest achievement is an ANC bronze medal, so excuse me if I'm not buying the "stuff happens" argument on his behalf
Otitokoro wrote:Since you're struggling to connect the dots, I'll help you...

In response to your post of the 4-4 home game tie with SL as evidence of your general argument about Rohr not being up to par and hence, should be disengaged, I posted evidence that even some of the very best teams have sometimes struggled against lower rated teams.
Germany lost yesterday at home to a team who, on average, were ranked 83 points behind them. Nigeria tied a team at home who, on average, were ranked 76 points behind them.
That's football. Stuff happens. The hiccups both Germany and Nigeria suffered does not in any way, shape or form, make either Joachim Loew or Gernot Rohr bad coaches.
Bigpokey24 wrote: this must be one of the most unintelligent post all year....my goodness, talk about gaslighting and totally deviating from the issue at hand smh
It's very important to use the hindsight of perspective when you lots make this emotional arguments... Rohr EASILY qualified Nigeria to the last Afcon coming on the back of two consecutive failures by the team to qualify for the previous tournaments even while we were in relatively easier groups in the previous tournaments we failed to qualify for... Rohr took a completely new team of rookies and players making their AFCON debuts the exception of few veterans like Musa and Mikel. Yes we won bronze which is nothing to celebrate considering our "pedigree" but you'll be delusional to think we stood a chance against an Algerian team that is indisputably the best team in Africa right now and among the best in the world based on current form... Now your argument against Rohr will be valid if he goes to Cameroon and fails to make the finals or better still win the gaddamn gold trophy, given that he has a more settled team now (so there will be no "we're still a young team" excuses) this time... at the end the main thing is for us to WIN, does it really matter how we play to win at this point? The simple dynamics of the beautiful game of football is that teams evolve their football identities with different philosophies, it's obvious Rohr isn't your Pep Guardiola type coach who will give you attractive football, the man is an old school German so his football style will be boring and often ponderous (yet largely efficient) as we have seen with the team so far.

Let's be patient and let this man do his job, if he fails to meet his targets this time, then there will be no justifiable reason to keep him any further than his contract... firing a coach in the midst of crucial qualifiers coming at a fast pace, then factor in a world cup and AFCON just next year will be very daft, the new world class coach you folks imagine will just fall out of the sky and immediately get us playing like prime Barcelona while winning trophies left and right will never materialize... make we no dey fool ourselves and face reality!
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Re: Fire Rohr

Post by Otitokoro »

I'm sure the Senegalese, having been touted as THE best team in Africa at the time, would argue otherwise.
After all, they had the unique misfortune of losing TWICE to the Algerians in the same competition by the same score.
nanijoe wrote:I'll be happy if Rohr can win the ANC..but I doubt that he thinks he can. There was nothing special about that Algeria team we lost to IMO, but if it makes you feel better about yourself, lets go with them being special.
No one is talking about any phantom world class coach, just a coach that has belief in his team.

In Rohr's mind, winning that bronze was huge and winning a WC game was exceptional (I don't read minds, but I can make deductions based on his statement)..

If those align with what you hope for from the SE, fine. I just personally want something different
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Re: Fire Rohr

Post by nanijoe »

I'll believe my lying eyes over whatever the Senegalese might have thought..btw like I said before, it is ok for you to be aligned with Rohr's vision of the SE as a small team. But nothing is ever going to make me accept the idea that we should be satisfied with the type of results we are getting with the SE under Rohr

Otitokoro wrote:I'm sure the Senegalese, having been touted as THE best team in Africa at the time, would argue otherwise.
After all, they had the unique misfortune of losing TWICE to the Algerians in the same competition by the same score.
nanijoe wrote:I'll be happy if Rohr can win the ANC..but I doubt that he thinks he can. There was nothing special about that Algeria team we lost to IMO, but if it makes you feel better about yourself, lets go with them being special.
No one is talking about any phantom world class coach, just a coach that has belief in his team.

In Rohr's mind, winning that bronze was huge and winning a WC game was exceptional (I don't read minds, but I can make deductions based on his statement)..

If those align with what you hope for from the SE, fine. I just personally want something different
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Re: Fire Rohr

Post by Otitokoro »

fabio wrote:Rohr qualified for AfCon after SE failed to qualify for two consecutive AfCon. Rohr won a bronze. It is hailed as an achievement.
A personal achievement for Rohr? Perhaps... However, for Nigeria - been there, done that.
Save for Musa and Omeruo, it most certainly was an 'accomplishment' for the other boys on the team who had never played in an AFCON. It wasn't better or worse than our 'normal' level of performance in the competition, so to say Rohr 'failed' is completely disingenuous.
fabio wrote: qualified for AfCon after SE failed to qualify for one AfCon. Keshi won Gold. Rohr above achievement carries more weight.
Not sure where you gleaned that from...
fabio wrote:Rohr went to his first WC and said he went to learn. 3rd in the group. We were told, he took the 2nd youngest team. Keshi went to his 1st WC. qualified for 2nd Round. We are told, he dropped this player and took that player!
Keshi's group had Argentina, Iran and Bosnia Herzegovina. Nigeria had a favorable possibility of qualifying from that group, considering the antecedents of the likes of Iran and B+H..
Rohr's group (Argentina, Croatia and Iceland) had an eventual world cup finalist and an UEFA championship quarter finalist team in it.
From an 'apples to apples' comparison of both groups from a degree of difficulty standpoint , it made sense that Keshi was able to qualify.
Last edited by Otitokoro on Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Fire Rohr

Post by Otitokoro »

Goodness me!
Please point me to where on CE or otherwise, Otitokoro stated/asserted/inferred that he was in 'alignment with Rohr's vision of the SE as a small team'??
nanijoe wrote:I'll believe my lying eyes over whatever the Senegalese might have thought..btw like I said before, it is ok for you to be aligned with Rohr's vision of the SE as a small team. But nothing is ever going to make me accept the idea that we should be satisfied with the type of results we are getting with the SE under Rohr

Otitokoro wrote:I'm sure the Senegalese, having been touted as THE best team in Africa at the time, would argue otherwise.
After all, they had the unique misfortune of losing TWICE to the Algerians in the same competition by the same score.
nanijoe wrote:I'll be happy if Rohr can win the ANC..but I doubt that he thinks he can. There was nothing special about that Algeria team we lost to IMO, but if it makes you feel better about yourself, lets go with them being special.
No one is talking about any phantom world class coach, just a coach that has belief in his team.

In Rohr's mind, winning that bronze was huge and winning a WC game was exceptional (I don't read minds, but I can make deductions based on his statement)..

If those align with what you hope for from the SE, fine. I just personally want something different
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Re: Fire Rohr

Post by Damunk »

These anti-Rohr propagandists will say virtually anything to make the rest of us look stupid. Its ridiculous.
Can't you guys make an argument without creating straw men?
Is it really that hard? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

'Rohr is the greatest thing since sliced bread". Says who?

"Aligning with Rohr's vision of the SE as a small team" Says who?

"Rohr's bronze carries more weight than Keshi's gold". Says who?

"(They) talk as if Rohr has achieved something unusual". Who does?

"One (Keshi) achieved and is condemned." Oh really? By whom?

"The other (Rohr) done nothing significant in tournament, he is the Hero." Wundaful! Superhero sef.

"One even asked for the death of the coaches..." That person is now a representative of who exactly?

When people resort to hyperbole to make their case you know there isnt really a case to be built on cold hard facts. Lets not even mention those who happily refer to a technical '3-0' "defeat of the team that ended 1-1 away, due to what we all know had nothing to do with Rohr and his players. But they reference it anyway as further 'evidence' of his poor record.
How disingenuous is that? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

It is now more acceptable for a coach to be WORLD champion, then fall to a 1st round WC exit and then fall even further to be beaten at home by a genuine minnow rated in the hundreds than it is for a coach to fall from AFCON gold to AFCON bronze. The former retains his job and the latter is struggling to justifying his keep. Which fall is greater? :huh:

Who makes these kind of arguments in a rational world?
Anyway we are fans and everybody is unquestionably "right". :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Fire Rohr

Post by nanijoe »

Umm..thats the very discussion we are having is it not? Are you not saying that in the context of playing against Algeria we were a "small team" and therefore a loss was no big deal?

Its either losing to Algeria was a big deal, or it was not..you cant choose both sides of the argument
Otitokoro wrote:Goodness me!
Please point me to where on CE or otherwise, Otitokoro stated/asserted/inferred that he was in 'alignment with Rohr's vision of the SE as a small team'??
nanijoe wrote:I'll believe my lying eyes over whatever the Senegalese might have thought..btw like I said before, it is ok for you to be aligned with Rohr's vision of the SE as a small team. But nothing is ever going to make me accept the idea that we should be satisfied with the type of results we are getting with the SE under Rohr

Otitokoro wrote:I'm sure the Senegalese, having been touted as THE best team in Africa at the time, would argue otherwise.
After all, they had the unique misfortune of losing TWICE to the Algerians in the same competition by the same score.
nanijoe wrote:I'll be happy if Rohr can win the ANC..but I doubt that he thinks he can. There was nothing special about that Algeria team we lost to IMO, but if it makes you feel better about yourself, lets go with them being special.
No one is talking about any phantom world class coach, just a coach that has belief in his team.

In Rohr's mind, winning that bronze was huge and winning a WC game was exceptional (I don't read minds, but I can make deductions based on his statement)..

If those align with what you hope for from the SE, fine. I just personally want something different
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Re: Fire Rohr

Post by vancity eagle »

Damunk wrote:These anti-Rohr propagandists will say virtually anything to make the rest of us look stupid. Its ridiculous.
Can't you guys make an argument without creating straw men?
Is it really that hard? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

'Rohr is the greatest thing since sliced bread". Says who?

"Aligning with Rohr's vision of the SE as a small team" Says who?

"Rohr's bronze carries more weight than Keshi's gold". Says who?

"(They) talk as if Rohr has achieved something unusual". Who does?

"One (Keshi) achieved and is condemned." Oh really? By whom?

"The other (Rohr) done nothing significant in tournament, he is the Hero." Wundaful! Superhero sef.

"One even asked for the death of the coaches..." That person is now a representative of who exactly?

When people resort to hyperbole to make their case you know there isnt really a case to be built on cold hard facts. Lets not even mention those who happily refer to a technical '3-0' "defeat of the team that ended 1-1 away, due to what we all know had nothing to do with Rohr and his players. But they reference it anyway as further 'evidence' of his poor record.
How disingenuous is that? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

It is now more acceptable for a coach to be WORLD champion, then fall to a 1st round WC exit and then fall even further to be beaten at home by a genuine minnow rated in the hundreds than it is for a coach to fall from AFCON gold to AFCON bronze. The former retains his job and the latter is struggling to justifying his keep. Which fall is greater? :huh:

Who makes these kind of arguments in a rational world?
Anyway we are fans and everybody is unquestionably "right". :lol: :lol: :lol:

KPOM.

These people are a lost case, soon we should just start to ignore them.

They are not arguing in good faith.

You cannot argue with someone who has no intention of honest debate.

Strictly emotional rubbish.
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Re: Fire Rohr

Post by vancity eagle »

nanijoe wrote:Umm..thats the very discussion we are having is it not? Are you not saying that in the context of playing against Algeria we were a "small team" and therefore a loss was no big deal?

Its either losing to Algeria was a big deal, or it was not..you cant choose both sides of the argument
Otitokoro wrote:Goodness me!
Please point me to where on CE or otherwise, Otitokoro stated/asserted/inferred that he was in 'alignment with Rohr's vision of the SE as a small team'??
nanijoe wrote:I'll believe my lying eyes over whatever the Senegalese might have thought..btw like I said before, it is ok for you to be aligned with Rohr's vision of the SE as a small team. But nothing is ever going to make me accept the idea that we should be satisfied with the type of results we are getting with the SE under Rohr

Otitokoro wrote:I'm sure the Senegalese, having been touted as THE best team in Africa at the time, would argue otherwise.
After all, they had the unique misfortune of losing TWICE to the Algerians in the same competition by the same score.
nanijoe wrote:I'll be happy if Rohr can win the ANC..but I doubt that he thinks he can. There was nothing special about that Algeria team we lost to IMO, but if it makes you feel better about yourself, lets go with them being special.
No one is talking about any phantom world class coach, just a coach that has belief in his team.

In Rohr's mind, winning that bronze was huge and winning a WC game was exceptional (I don't read minds, but I can make deductions based on his statement)..

If those align with what you hope for from the SE, fine. I just personally want something different

losing to Algeria does not make us a small team.

Big teams can beat big teams.

What on earth do you think happens in EVERY SINGLE TOURNAMENT. The things you guys argue are just purse stupidity.

Nigeria was not the best team at AFCON 2019, neither on paper nor on the pitch. Get over it.

We came third. Winning AFCON is not our, or any other country's birthright. And it was only a moment of brilliance by Mahrez at the final minute of the match which knocked us out. Get over it.
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Re: Fire Rohr

Post by Enugu II »

Otitokoro wrote:
fabio wrote:Rohr qualified for AfCon after SE failed to qualify for two consecutive AfCon. Rohr won a bronze. It is hailed as an achievement.
A personal achievement for Rohr? Perhaps... However, for Nigeria - been there, done that.
Save for Musa and Omeruo, it most certainly was an 'accomplishment' for the other boys on the team who had never played in an AFCON. It wasn't better or worse than our 'normal' level of performance in the competition, so to say Rohr 'failed' is completely disingenuous.
fabio wrote: qualified for AfCon after SE failed to qualify for one AfCon. Keshi won Gold. Rohr above achievement carries more weight.
Not sure where you gleaned that from...
fabio wrote:Rohr went to his first WC and said he went to learn. 3rd in the group. We were told, he took the 2nd youngest team. Keshi went to his 1st WC. qualified for 2nd Round. We are told, he dropped this player and took that player!
Keshi's group had Argentina, Iran and Bosnia Herzegovina. Nigeria had a favorable possibility of qualifying from that group, considering the antecedents of the likes of Iran and B+H..
Rohr's group (Argentina, Croatia and Iceland) had an eventual world cup finalist and an UEFA championship quarter finalist team in it.
From an 'apples to apples' comparison of both groups from a degree of difficulty standpoint , it made sense that Keshi was able to qualify.
Otitokoro,

Not so fast ooo! While Rohr's group was difficult given that Nigeria was not expected out of that group, so also was Keshi's team not expected to come out of the WC group as well. What you forget was that Bosnia was expected to beat Nigeria and was, along with Argentina, expected to qualify from that group.
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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Re: Fire Rohr

Post by wanaj0 »

vancity eagle wrote:
Damunk wrote:These anti-Rohr propagandists will say virtually anything to make the rest of us look stupid. Its ridiculous.
Can't you guys make an argument without creating straw men?
Is it really that hard? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

'Rohr is the greatest thing since sliced bread". Says who?

"Aligning with Rohr's vision of the SE as a small team" Says who?

"Rohr's bronze carries more weight than Keshi's gold". Says who?

"(They) talk as if Rohr has achieved something unusual". Who does?

"One (Keshi) achieved and is condemned." Oh really? By whom?

"The other (Rohr) done nothing significant in tournament, he is the Hero." Wundaful! Superhero sef.

"One even asked for the death of the coaches..." That person is now a representative of who exactly?

When people resort to hyperbole to make their case you know there isnt really a case to be built on cold hard facts. Lets not even mention those who happily refer to a technical '3-0' "defeat of the team that ended 1-1 away, due to what we all know had nothing to do with Rohr and his players. But they reference it anyway as further 'evidence' of his poor record.
How disingenuous is that? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

It is now more acceptable for a coach to be WORLD champion, then fall to a 1st round WC exit and then fall even further to be beaten at home by a genuine minnow rated in the hundreds than it is for a coach to fall from AFCON gold to AFCON bronze. The former retains his job and the latter is struggling to justifying his keep. Which fall is greater? :huh:

Who makes these kind of arguments in a rational world?
Anyway we are fans and everybody is unquestionably "right". :lol: :lol: :lol:

KPOM.

These people are a lost case, soon we should just start to ignore them.

They are not arguing in good faith.

You cannot argue with someone who has no intention of honest debate.

Strictly emotional rubbish.
The lost case is the one that supported CIV against the SE

The one that was SAD that SE won the AFCON.

The one that wished DEATH on SE coaches.

We have people that felt that a coach that qualified for WC 2nd round should be sacked but the one that did not qualify for the WC 2nd road deserve to be on the job.
“We do not have natural disasters in Nigeria, the only disaster we have is human beings,”
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Re: Fire Rohr

Post by vancity eagle »

Enugu II wrote:
Otitokoro wrote:
fabio wrote:Rohr qualified for AfCon after SE failed to qualify for two consecutive AfCon. Rohr won a bronze. It is hailed as an achievement.
A personal achievement for Rohr? Perhaps... However, for Nigeria - been there, done that.
Save for Musa and Omeruo, it most certainly was an 'accomplishment' for the other boys on the team who had never played in an AFCON. It wasn't better or worse than our 'normal' level of performance in the competition, so to say Rohr 'failed' is completely disingenuous.
fabio wrote: qualified for AfCon after SE failed to qualify for one AfCon. Keshi won Gold. Rohr above achievement carries more weight.
Not sure where you gleaned that from...
fabio wrote:Rohr went to his first WC and said he went to learn. 3rd in the group. We were told, he took the 2nd youngest team. Keshi went to his 1st WC. qualified for 2nd Round. We are told, he dropped this player and took that player!
Keshi's group had Argentina, Iran and Bosnia Herzegovina. Nigeria had a favorable possibility of qualifying from that group, considering the antecedents of the likes of Iran and B+H..
Rohr's group (Argentina, Croatia and Iceland) had an eventual world cup finalist and an UEFA championship quarter finalist team in it.
From an 'apples to apples' comparison of both groups from a degree of difficulty standpoint , it made sense that Keshi was able to qualify.
Otitokoro,

Not so fast ooo! While Rohr's group was difficult given that Nigeria was not expected out of that group, so also was Keshi's team not expected to come out of the WC group as well. What you forget was that Bosnia was expected to beat Nigeria and was, along with Argentina, expected to qualify from that group.

Lies.

Only an extreme eurocentric person would think Bosnia would be favoured over Nigeria WHO WERE AFRICAN CHAMPS.

Bosnia was literally the worst ranked European side at that tournament.

You dont have to change history to try and boost Keshi.

Comparing 2014 Bosnia to 2018 Croatia is completely absurd.

Not only did Keshi have the easiest path to the world cup of ALL 32 TEAMS (the toughest team Nigeria faced was Ethiopia), he also had if not the easiest WC group the second easiest one, and he still made it much harder than it needed to be.

the only difference between us qualifying for the second round in 2014 as opposed to 2018 was the luck of drawing an easy group compared to a group of death. PERIOD.
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Re: Fire Rohr

Post by fabio »

vancity eagle wrote:
Lies.

Only an extreme eurocentric person would think Bosnia would be favoured over Nigeria WHO WERE AFRICAN CHAMPS.

Bosnia was literally the worst ranked European side at that tournament.

You dont have to change history to try and boost Keshi.

Comparing 2014 Bosnia to 2018 Croatia is completely absurd.

Not only did Keshi have the easiest path to the world cup of ALL 32 TEAMS (the toughest team Nigeria faced was Ethiopia), he also had if not the easiest WC group the second easiest one, and he still made it much harder than it needed to be.

the only difference between us qualifying for the second round in 2014 as opposed to 2018 was the luck of drawing an easy group compared to a group of death. PERIOD.
There are verifiable facts, we can call upon. Frances was the worst ranked team in Europe, followed by Croatia and Russia.
Bosnia and Herzegovina highest FIFA World Ranking was 13, achieved in August 2013

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_an ... tball_team

October 2013 ranking were used for 2014 World. Bosnia and Herzegovina was ranked 16

https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking ... k/id10516/
Croatia were ranked 18 at October 2017 for the WC draws.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup
Keshi beat a ranked 16 team. It was easy

Rohr loses to a rank 18 team. It was difficult.
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Re: Fire Rohr

Post by Bigpokey24 »

:clap: :clap: nothing more to add Fabio
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