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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:40 pm 
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Everyone is so damn emotional all of a sudden.
Why?

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:41 pm 
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vancity eagle wrote:
bret- hart wrote:
The hype for this guy is too much. He hasnt done anything that the likes of Ikedia, Haruna Babangida, Uzoenyi etc didnt do in the past. He has the raw talent but it takes much more to play and thrive at the highest level. If you ask me i think he needs to score more goals. He creates chances, and dibbles well and has great speed he needs to use these attributes to score boatloads of goals in the NPFL. That was how Ahmed Musa got noticed. its a shame we didnt qualify for the Olympics. That would have been the perfect stage for him to get the attention of Euro clubs in top leagues.



exactly.

He COULD go on to do well in Europe and become a great player

he also COULD be another Ejike Uzoenyi.

Simply dribbling opponents in the Nigerian league cannot be the standard to get an invite into SE.

Have we really sunken that low.

We are at a point now where even our players who tear up the Belgian, Turkish, French league have no gaurantees of making our team, yet people want to hype a few dribbles against sub par opposition. I tire for some people oh

Let the boy prove himself on a higher stage. I hope he can do it.


Now he’s better than Onyekuru, na real wa...Onyekuru came on vs Lesotho and assisted a goal, Iwuala just kept dribbling in circles and losing the ball, but based on that and some highlights in a substandard African competition, he’s better than Onyekuru...

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:29 am 
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Bigpokey24 wrote:
Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
This boy will not be in Enyimba in the next six months. I believe he is headed out sooner than later. God have mercy! Was that ever a penalty kick? If it was not a pk then one has to wonder what is?

His turn of speed and change of direction at pace is just incredible. As Damunk mentioned already, the danger is that foreign coaches may dim some of his natural gifts. I hope he is able to resist that to an extent because that is what makes the difference between being ordinary or extraordinary.

You keep promoting Iwuala's transfer to Europe! What is your real mission? I thought you were genuinely interested in the NPFL? How will Iwuala's transfer to Europe help the NPFL? Your comments since Iwuala played for the SE seems to reveal your real motive, it's not about the NPFL but getting players into Europe using our SE, something which Rohr is refusing to be a part of. This was how the late Stephen Keshi was used and dumped!

you also keep punishing us with junks at Fulham, what's behind such drive. We've all seen Anayo playing for the SE and also repping in the Confed cup on the continent, everyone can see how exciting this dude is , we didn't hear a word from you when **** played Musa . if it were a local coach , your likes would say that local coach done collect egunje...but today your belle dey burn because some Enyimba player is justifying his inclusion to the national team. I cannot stand hypocrites like you. I am not saying this , but you sound kind of morally corrupt

Those "junks" play in the top league in the WORLD!!!!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:31 am 
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fabio wrote:
Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
This boy will not be in Enyimba in the next six months. I believe he is headed out sooner than later. God have mercy! Was that ever a penalty kick? If it was not a pk then one has to wonder what is?

His turn of speed and change of direction at pace is just incredible. As Damunk mentioned already, the danger is that foreign coaches may dim some of his natural gifts. I hope he is able to resist that to an extent because that is what makes the difference between being ordinary or extraordinary.

You keep promoting Iwuala's transfer to Europe! What is your real mission? I thought you were genuinely interested in the NPFL? How will Iwuala's transfer to Europe help the NPFL? Your comments since Iwuala played for the SE seems to reveal your real motive, it's not about the NPFL but getting players into Europe using our SE, something which Rohr is refusing to be a part of. This was how the late Stephen Keshi was used and dumped!

Rohr is only interested in players abroad.

I don´t understand this your rant or attack. It comes across as personal.

I have only asked questions, let the man respond himself and learn not to take panadol for another man's headache!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:37 am 
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maceo4 wrote:
vancity eagle wrote:
bret- hart wrote:
The hype for this guy is too much. He hasnt done anything that the likes of Ikedia, Haruna Babangida, Uzoenyi etc didnt do in the past. He has the raw talent but it takes much more to play and thrive at the highest level. If you ask me i think he needs to score more goals. He creates chances, and dibbles well and has great speed he needs to use these attributes to score boatloads of goals in the NPFL. That was how Ahmed Musa got noticed. its a shame we didnt qualify for the Olympics. That would have been the perfect stage for him to get the attention of Euro clubs in top leagues.



exactly.

He COULD go on to do well in Europe and become a great player

he also COULD be another Ejike Uzoenyi.

Simply dribbling opponents in the Nigerian league cannot be the standard to get an invite into SE.

Have we really sunken that low.

We are at a point now where even our players who tear up the Belgian, Turkish, French league have no gaurantees of making our team, yet people want to hype a few dribbles against sub par opposition. I tire for some people oh

Let the boy prove himself on a higher stage. I hope he can do it.


Now he’s better than Onyekuru, na real wa...Onyekuru came on vs Lesotho and assisted a goal, Iwuala just kept dribbling in circles and losing the ball, but based on that and some highlights in a substandard African competition, he’s better than Onyekuru...


Nigerians like flashy things. :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:51 am 
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maceo4 wrote:
vancity eagle wrote:
bret- hart wrote:
The hype for this guy is too much. He hasnt done anything that the likes of Ikedia, Haruna Babangida, Uzoenyi etc didnt do in the past. He has the raw talent but it takes much more to play and thrive at the highest level. If you ask me i think he needs to score more goals. He creates chances, and dibbles well and has great speed he needs to use these attributes to score boatloads of goals in the NPFL. That was how Ahmed Musa got noticed. its a shame we didnt qualify for the Olympics. That would have been the perfect stage for him to get the attention of Euro clubs in top leagues.



exactly.

He COULD go on to do well in Europe and become a great player

he also COULD be another Ejike Uzoenyi.

Simply dribbling opponents in the Nigerian league cannot be the standard to get an invite into SE.

Have we really sunken that low.

We are at a point now where even our players who tear up the Belgian, Turkish, French league have no gaurantees of making our team, yet people want to hype a few dribbles against sub par opposition. I tire for some people oh

Let the boy prove himself on a higher stage. I hope he can do it.


Now he’s better than Onyekuru, na real wa...Onyekuru came on vs Lesotho and assisted a goal, Iwuala just kept dribbling in circles and losing the ball, but based on that and some highlights in a substandard African competition, he’s better than Onyekuru...



my guy this level of delusion is worthy of Trump supporters and QAnon.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:08 am 
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I think there's some talent there that needs some refining. Let's see what the future holds for the kid.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:12 am 
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Dammy wrote:
fabio wrote:
Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
This boy will not be in Enyimba in the next six months. I believe he is headed out sooner than later. God have mercy! Was that ever a penalty kick? If it was not a pk then one has to wonder what is?

His turn of speed and change of direction at pace is just incredible. As Damunk mentioned already, the danger is that foreign coaches may dim some of his natural gifts. I hope he is able to resist that to an extent because that is what makes the difference between being ordinary or extraordinary.

You keep promoting Iwuala's transfer to Europe! What is your real mission? I thought you were genuinely interested in the NPFL? How will Iwuala's transfer to Europe help the NPFL? Your comments since Iwuala played for the SE seems to reveal your real motive, it's not about the NPFL but getting players into Europe using our SE, something which Rohr is refusing to be a part of. This was how the late Stephen Keshi was used and dumped!

Rohr is only interested in players abroad.

I don´t understand this your rant or attack. It comes across as personal.

I have only asked questions, let the man respond himself and learn not to take panadol for another man's headache!

Why are you taking Panadol for Eze and Tosin headache?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:53 am 
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Damunk wrote:
waka-man wrote:
The clip shows he can dribble. But babies dribble.
The thing that’s really impressive is his balance. I say this with a straight face, he reminds me of Maradona and to a lesser extent, Okocha. Low centre of gravity, close control, happy with the ball.
The question now is whether he can do anything with those attributes. Not enough in the video to say whether he can.
You are not wrong. His low centre of gravity is a big plus to the dribbling skills and unpredictable body movement he has.

That 'ubm' is something the great dribblers have always had. They carry everyone one way and like a UFO, sharply and effortlessly change direction, leaving everyone marking fresh air. Its all about balance and I think Ajax FC used to (and possibly still do) make their players attend dance classes as part of their training routine. Sounds funny, but only the ignorant would laugh. :lol:

This guy is not staying in Nigeria for much longer.
IMHO he is a sturdier version of Ejuke....he'll do just great from exposure to top coaching.


Same thing I thought when I watched some of his highlights last week. His stature is so much like Maradona and a less stockier version of Jayjay.

He's got perfect ball control, speed, dribbing, hot shot and an eye for that killler pass. He would be a perfect number 10. In Enyimba, He plays that free role moving from one wing to the other and also operates from the middle.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:20 am 
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amoky wrote:
Some Genot Rohr apologist will tell us that home-based players are not enough for the National team


And this is true. But you always have that 1 or 2 special gems playing in the local league or even an obscure league.

Ive been privileged to be part of the training sessions of several NPFL clubs and I can tell you that majority are not up to standard and nearly all the coaches are junk.

That been said, Iwuala needs exposure and I believe going to the French, Dutch, Portuguese or RUssian League would be the best. He shoudl be able to pick up a starting shirt in clubs in those leagues within 2months.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:40 pm 
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Ugbowo wrote:
I think there's some talent there that needs some refining. Let's see what the future holds for the kid.


Best comment so far. :clap: :clap:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:58 pm 
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fabio wrote:
Dammy wrote:
fabio wrote:
Dammy wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
This boy will not be in Enyimba in the next six months. I believe he is headed out sooner than later. God have mercy! Was that ever a penalty kick? If it was not a pk then one has to wonder what is?

His turn of speed and change of direction at pace is just incredible. As Damunk mentioned already, the danger is that foreign coaches may dim some of his natural gifts. I hope he is able to resist that to an extent because that is what makes the difference between being ordinary or extraordinary.

You keep promoting Iwuala's transfer to Europe! What is your real mission? I thought you were genuinely interested in the NPFL? How will Iwuala's transfer to Europe help the NPFL? Your comments since Iwuala played for the SE seems to reveal your real motive, it's not about the NPFL but getting players into Europe using our SE, something which Rohr is refusing to be a part of. This was how the late Stephen Keshi was used and dumped!

Rohr is only interested in players abroad.

I don´t understand this your rant or attack. It comes across as personal.

I have only asked questions, let the man respond himself and learn not to take panadol for another man's headache!

Why are you taking Panadol for Eze and Tosin headache?

Na real wah for you with your incomparable comparison! Must you reply to everything if you have nothing of value to say? I tire for you!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:37 pm 
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In my view, Anayo Iwuala's play demonstrates, yet again, what really should be common sense. Consider the fact that most Nigerian footballers are based in Nigeria. While it is true that the best are migrating overseas as Iwuala is most likely to do in weeks or months, it is important to understand that production of top level talent is neither static nor is it finite. It is best conceptualized as a conveyor belt production. It is never ending and neither is footballer scouting perfect. When we all realize those truisms, then it is easy to understand why Anayo Iwuala is not a mystery nor will he be the last.

Ultimately, the question for the national team selectors is whether they want to cast their net wide in order to 'fish' or to get the best Nigerian talents wherever they may be. If that is the case, then locally based talent cannot be ignored. However, if Rohr and his lieutenants believe in the prejudiced notion that ALL top Nigerian players are based in Europe (some even claim that these should be limited to those developed as youth players in Europe) then Nigeria will not be able to access all its potential top players. That is the challenge. I hope that Iwuala has opened Rohr's eyes and thinking.

For me, I enjoy the revelation of this kid and the fact that he has opened the eyes of naysayers who claimed that no good talent exists locally, that Amodu finding them years ago was an entirely different era or that Keshi finding them was no longer possible. This emergence confirms those as lies. The era of local production of players is no where near an end. As a conveyor belt, it will keep chugging along. The challenge is whether the Nigerian authorities are brave enough, savvy enough, and wise enough to look and locate.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:40 pm 
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chief nfachairman wrote:
amoky wrote:
Some Genot Rohr apologist will tell us that home-based players are not enough for the National team


And this is true. But you always have that 1 or 2 special gems playing in the local league or even an obscure league.

Ive been privileged to be part of the training sessions of several NPFL clubs and I can tell you that majority are not up to standard and nearly all the coaches are junk.

That been said, Iwuala needs exposure and I believe going to the French, Dutch, Portuguese or RUssian League would be the best. He shoudl be able to pick up a starting shirt in clubs in those leagues within 2months.
Chairman, people are too preoccupied accusing you of this and that to appreciate how much time you spend directly with players at the grassroot level.
I have witnessed you doing this with a passion first hand and even if we disagree from time to time, your opinions are not to be taken lightly. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:26 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
In my view, Anayo Iwuala's play demonstrates, yet again, what really should be common sense. Consider the fact that most Nigerian footballers are based in Nigeria. While it is true that the best are migrating overseas as Iwuala is most likely to do in weeks or months, it is important to understand that production of top level talent is neither static nor is it finite. It is best conceptualized as a conveyor belt production. It is never ending and neither is footballer scouting perfect. When we all realize those truisms, then it is easy to understand why Anayo Iwuala is not a mystery nor will he be the last.

Ultimately, the question for the national team selectors is whether they want to cast their net wide in order to 'fish' or to get the best Nigerian talents wherever they may be. If that is the case, then locally based talent cannot be ignored. However, if Rohr and his lieutenants believe in the prejudiced notion that ALL top Nigerian players are based in Europe (some even claim that these should be limited to those developed as youth players in Europe) then Nigeria will not be able to access all its potential top players. That is the challenge. I hope that Iwuala has opened Rohr's eyes and thinking.

For me, I enjoy the revelation of this kid and the fact that he has opened the eyes of naysayers who claimed that no good talent exists locally, that Amodu finding them years ago was an entirely different era or that Keshi finding them was no longer possible. This emergence confirms those as lies. The era of local production of players is no where near an end. As a conveyor belt, it will keep chugging along. The challenge is whether the Nigerian authorities are brave enough, savvy enough, and wise enough to look and locate.
Prof, I think your post is not an accurate reflection of both sids of the debate. You have introduced a few rogue arguments on one side as if representative, which only goes to distort the picture.

Those arguing that "ALL" (emphasis yours) top Nigerian players are abroad are being as ridiculous and no more representative than those that argue that "we don't want foreign-born players". They are minority, rogue views that should not be given the dignity of recognition. Rohr has never made a statement in the context of which you are presenting it.

However, it is not a ridiculous notion to state that "Nigeria's top players are abroad" because they are. Firstly because the capital market creams off the very best local players just like it undisputably does in Brazil, Argentina, Belgium etc. Secondly because we are talking about finished and near-finished players and not just raw talent, which is a different debate entirely. No-one can dispute the over abundance of talent within Nigeria's borders, but we all know that talent is not enough to deliver at the highest level, whether on the continental or the world stage. It is not difficult to understand either. It is pure sentiment to underestimate (deliberately or otherwise) the benefits of nutrition, training facilities, remuneration and personal welfare (home, car etc) not to mention exposure to some of the world's best players and coaches either directly as teammates or indirectly as opponents when playing in Europe.

So the debate is a bit of a false one. Iwuala is probably on his way out of Nigeria and no matter how efficient the conveyor belt churning out local players, there will ALWAYS be massive losses of the very best talent at a rate the most efficient conveyor belt cannot keep up with.

If it was that easy, we'd have an Okocha, King Kanu and Enyeama coming through every couple of years.
We are haemorrhaging our best raw talent abroad, many of whom will inevitably become our best players.

Maybe we should get some of our top stars past and present to come tell us what difference, if any, they experienced when they moved abroad because it seems as if many of us are in denial.

All this, remember, is in the context of the NATIONAL team, not a youth side or even club side.
It is NOT the duty of the national team to develop local Nigerian talent and somehow turn them into international-grade players.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:36 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
In my view, Anayo Iwuala's play demonstrates, yet again, what really should be common sense. Consider the fact that most Nigerian footballers are based in Nigeria. While it is true that the best are migrating overseas as Iwuala is most likely to do in weeks or months, it is important to understand that production of top level talent is neither static nor is it finite. It is best conceptualized as a conveyor belt production. It is never ending and neither is footballer scouting perfect. When we all realize those truisms, then it is easy to understand why Anayo Iwuala is not a mystery nor will he be the last.

Ultimately, the question for the national team selectors is whether they want to cast their net wide in order to 'fish' or to get the best Nigerian talents wherever they may be. If that is the case, then locally based talent cannot be ignored. However, if Rohr and his lieutenants believe in the prejudiced notion that ALL top Nigerian players are based in Europe (some even claim that these should be limited to those developed as youth players in Europe) then Nigeria will not be able to access all its potential top players. That is the challenge. I hope that Iwuala has opened Rohr's eyes and thinking.

For me, I enjoy the revelation of this kid and the fact that he has opened the eyes of naysayers who claimed that no good talent exists locally, that Amodu finding them years ago was an entirely different era or that Keshi finding them was no longer possible. This emergence confirms those as lies. The era of local production of players is no where near an end. As a conveyor belt, it will keep chugging along. The challenge is whether the Nigerian authorities are brave enough, savvy enough, and wise enough to look and locate.
Prof, I think your post is not an accurate reflection of both sids of the debate. You have introduced a few rogue arguments on one side as if representative, which only goes to distort the picture.

Those arguing that "ALL" (emphasis yours) top Nigerian players are abroad are being as ridiculous and no more representative than those that argue that "we don't want foreign-born players". They are minority, rogue views that should not be given the dignity of recognition. Rohr has never made a statement in the context of which you are presenting it.

However, it is not a ridiculous notion to state that "Nigeria's top players are abroad" because they are. Firstly because the capital market creams off the very best local players just like it undisputably does in Brazil, Argentina, Belgium etc. Secondly because we are talking about finished and near-finished players and not just raw talent, which is a different debate entirely. No-one can dispute the over abundance of talent within Nigeria's borders, but we all know that talent is not enough to deliver at the highest level, whether on the continental or the world stage. It is not difficult to understand either. It is pure sentiment to underestimate (deliberately or otherwise) the benefits of nutrition, training facilities, remuneration and personal welfare (home, car etc) not to mention exposure to some of the world's best players and coaches either directly as teammates or indirectly as opponents when playing in Europe.

So the debate is a bit of a false one. Iwuala is probably on his way out of Nigeria and no matter how efficient the conveyor belt churning out local players, there will ALWAYS be massive losses of the very best talent at a rate the most efficient conveyor belt cannot keep up with.

If it was that easy, we'd have an Okocha, King Kanu and Enyeama coming through every couple of years.
We are haemorrhaging our best raw talent abroad, many of whom will inevitably become our best players.

Maybe we should get some of our top stars past and present to come tell us what difference, if any, they experienced when they moved abroad because it seems as if many of us are in denial.

All this, remember, is in the context of the NATIONAL team, not a youth side or even club side.
It is NOT the duty of the national team to develop local Nigerian talent and somehow turn them into international-grade players.

Don't waste your time going round in circles with E11. I have learnt never to take most Nigerians on face value. He sounds like a broken record repeating the same old mantra.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:51 pm 
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Damunk,

Nope.. There are those who have indeed argued no need to look for players in Nigeria because the best players have left. That has been argued not just here but in the Nigerian media. While you may not hold those views personally, there are those who have on this site and elsewhere. None of those points raised there is conjectured.. They actually reflect views held on this matter.

Damunk wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
In my view, Anayo Iwuala's play demonstrates, yet again, what really should be common sense. Consider the fact that most Nigerian footballers are based in Nigeria. While it is true that the best are migrating overseas as Iwuala is most likely to do in weeks or months, it is important to understand that production of top level talent is neither static nor is it finite. It is best conceptualized as a conveyor belt production. It is never ending and neither is footballer scouting perfect. When we all realize those truisms, then it is easy to understand why Anayo Iwuala is not a mystery nor will he be the last.

Ultimately, the question for the national team selectors is whether they want to cast their net wide in order to 'fish' or to get the best Nigerian talents wherever they may be. If that is the case, then locally based talent cannot be ignored. However, if Rohr and his lieutenants believe in the prejudiced notion that ALL top Nigerian players are based in Europe (some even claim that these should be limited to those developed as youth players in Europe) then Nigeria will not be able to access all its potential top players. That is the challenge. I hope that Iwuala has opened Rohr's eyes and thinking.

For me, I enjoy the revelation of this kid and the fact that he has opened the eyes of naysayers who claimed that no good talent exists locally, that Amodu finding them years ago was an entirely different era or that Keshi finding them was no longer possible. This emergence confirms those as lies. The era of local production of players is no where near an end. As a conveyor belt, it will keep chugging along. The challenge is whether the Nigerian authorities are brave enough, savvy enough, and wise enough to look and locate.
Prof, I think your post is not an accurate reflection of both sids of the debate. You have introduced a few rogue arguments on one side as if representative, which only goes to distort the picture.

Those arguing that "ALL" (emphasis yours) top Nigerian players are abroad are being as ridiculous and no more representative than those that argue that "we don't want foreign-born players". They are minority, rogue views that should not be given the dignity of recognition. Rohr has never made a statement in the context of which you are presenting it.

However, it is not a ridiculous notion to state that "Nigeria's top players are abroad" because they are. Firstly because the capital market creams off the very best local players just like it undisputably does in Brazil, Argentina, Belgium etc. Secondly because we are talking about finished and near-finished players and not just raw talent, which is a different debate entirely. No-one can dispute the over abundance of talent within Nigeria's borders, but we all know that talent is not enough to deliver at the highest level, whether on the continental or the world stage. It is not difficult to understand either. It is pure sentiment to underestimate (deliberately or otherwise) the benefits of nutrition, training facilities, remuneration and personal welfare (home, car etc) not to mention exposure to some of the world's best players and coaches either directly as teammates or indirectly as opponents when playing in Europe.

So the debate is a bit of a false one. Iwuala is probably on his way out of Nigeria and no matter how efficient the conveyor belt churning out local players, there will ALWAYS be massive losses of the very best talent at a rate the most efficient conveyor belt cannot keep up with.

If it was that easy, we'd have an Okocha, King Kanu and Enyeama coming through every couple of years.
We are haemorrhaging our best raw talent abroad, many of whom will inevitably become our best players.

Maybe we should get some of our top stars past and present to come tell us what difference, if any, they experienced when they moved abroad because it seems as if many of us are in denial.

All this, remember, is in the context of the NATIONAL team, not a youth side or even club side.
It is NOT the duty of the national team to develop local Nigerian talent and somehow turn them into international-grade players.

_________________
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:30 am 
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Enugu II wrote:
In my view, Anayo Iwuala's play demonstrates, yet again, what really should be common sense. Consider the fact that most Nigerian footballers are based in Nigeria. While it is true that the best are migrating overseas as Iwuala is most likely to do in weeks or months, it is important to understand that production of top level talent is neither static nor is it finite. It is best conceptualized as a conveyor belt production. It is never ending and neither is footballer scouting perfect. When we all realize those truisms, then it is easy to understand why Anayo Iwuala is not a mystery nor will he be the last.

Ultimately, the question for the national team selectors is whether they want to cast their net wide in order to 'fish' or to get the best Nigerian talents wherever they may be. If that is the case, then locally based talent cannot be ignored. However, if Rohr and his lieutenants believe in the prejudiced notion that ALL top Nigerian players are based in Europe (some even claim that these should be limited to those developed as youth players in Europe) then Nigeria will not be able to access all its potential top players. That is the challenge. I hope that Iwuala has opened Rohr's eyes and thinking.

For me, I enjoy the revelation of this kid and the fact that he has opened the eyes of naysayers who claimed that no good talent exists locally, that Amodu finding them years ago was an entirely different era or that Keshi finding them was no longer possible. This emergence confirms those as lies. The era of local production of players is no where near an end. As a conveyor belt, it will keep chugging along. The challenge is whether the Nigerian authorities are brave enough, savvy enough, and wise enough to look and locate.

Good point! Also, just like some university graduates in Nigeria have connections to get good jobs after studies while others don't, so also, some players are blessed with the right connections to get clubs in Europe. So, do we give the home based players that are good but unfortunate not to have the right connections a chance? Or do we punish them for this by excluding them?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:12 am 
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Damunk wrote:
chief nfachairman wrote:
amoky wrote:
Some Genot Rohr apologist will tell us that home-based players are not enough for the National team


And this is true. But you always have that 1 or 2 special gems playing in the local league or even an obscure league.

Ive been privileged to be part of the training sessions of several NPFL clubs and I can tell you that majority are not up to standard and nearly all the coaches are junk.

That been said, Iwuala needs exposure and I believe going to the French, Dutch, Portuguese or RUssian League would be the best. He shoudl be able to pick up a starting shirt in clubs in those leagues within 2months.
Chairman, people are too preoccupied accusing you of this and that to appreciate how much time you spend directly with players at the grassroot level.
I have witnessed you doing this with a passion first hand and even if we disagree from time to time, your opinions are not to be taken lightly. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:


Thanks so much my brother. :thumb:


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:25 am 
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EII,
Its a fact that the best NIgerian players are abroad. Infact, the best talents hardly make it to the NPFL anymore. From Academies they move abroad or to age group teams.

Again, you woudl find that odd 1 or 2 players in the local league that is extremely talented and gifted like Iwuala, Etebo, SUnday Mbah, Oboabona, etc.

Fact is, Nigeria's best players, just like Brazil, Argentina, Senegal, etc are in Europe.


Enugu II wrote:
Damunk,

Nope.. There are those who have indeed argued no need to look for players in Nigeria because the best players have left. That has been argued not just here but in the Nigerian media. While you may not hold those views personally, there are those who have on this site and elsewhere. None of those points raised there is conjectured.. They actually reflect views held on this matter.

Damunk wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
In my view, Anayo Iwuala's play demonstrates, yet again, what really should be common sense. Consider the fact that most Nigerian footballers are based in Nigeria. While it is true that the best are migrating overseas as Iwuala is most likely to do in weeks or months, it is important to understand that production of top level talent is neither static nor is it finite. It is best conceptualized as a conveyor belt production. It is never ending and neither is footballer scouting perfect. When we all realize those truisms, then it is easy to understand why Anayo Iwuala is not a mystery nor will he be the last.

Ultimately, the question for the national team selectors is whether they want to cast their net wide in order to 'fish' or to get the best Nigerian talents wherever they may be. If that is the case, then locally based talent cannot be ignored. However, if Rohr and his lieutenants believe in the prejudiced notion that ALL top Nigerian players are based in Europe (some even claim that these should be limited to those developed as youth players in Europe) then Nigeria will not be able to access all its potential top players. That is the challenge. I hope that Iwuala has opened Rohr's eyes and thinking.

For me, I enjoy the revelation of this kid and the fact that he has opened the eyes of naysayers who claimed that no good talent exists locally, that Amodu finding them years ago was an entirely different era or that Keshi finding them was no longer possible. This emergence confirms those as lies. The era of local production of players is no where near an end. As a conveyor belt, it will keep chugging along. The challenge is whether the Nigerian authorities are brave enough, savvy enough, and wise enough to look and locate.
Prof, I think your post is not an accurate reflection of both sids of the debate. You have introduced a few rogue arguments on one side as if representative, which only goes to distort the picture.

Those arguing that "ALL" (emphasis yours) top Nigerian players are abroad are being as ridiculous and no more representative than those that argue that "we don't want foreign-born players". They are minority, rogue views that should not be given the dignity of recognition. Rohr has never made a statement in the context of which you are presenting it.

However, it is not a ridiculous notion to state that "Nigeria's top players are abroad" because they are. Firstly because the capital market creams off the very best local players just like it undisputably does in Brazil, Argentina, Belgium etc. Secondly because we are talking about finished and near-finished players and not just raw talent, which is a different debate entirely. No-one can dispute the over abundance of talent within Nigeria's borders, but we all know that talent is not enough to deliver at the highest level, whether on the continental or the world stage. It is not difficult to understand either. It is pure sentiment to underestimate (deliberately or otherwise) the benefits of nutrition, training facilities, remuneration and personal welfare (home, car etc) not to mention exposure to some of the world's best players and coaches either directly as teammates or indirectly as opponents when playing in Europe.

So the debate is a bit of a false one. Iwuala is probably on his way out of Nigeria and no matter how efficient the conveyor belt churning out local players, there will ALWAYS be massive losses of the very best talent at a rate the most efficient conveyor belt cannot keep up with.

If it was that easy, we'd have an Okocha, King Kanu and Enyeama coming through every couple of years.
We are haemorrhaging our best raw talent abroad, many of whom will inevitably become our best players.

Maybe we should get some of our top stars past and present to come tell us what difference, if any, they experienced when they moved abroad because it seems as if many of us are in denial.

All this, remember, is in the context of the NATIONAL team, not a youth side or even club side.
It is NOT the duty of the national team to develop local Nigerian talent and somehow turn them into international-grade players.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:41 am 
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Enugu II wrote:
Damunk,
Nope.. There are those who have indeed argued no need to look for players in Nigeria because the best players have left. That has been argued not just here but in the Nigerian media. While you may not hold those views personally, there are those who have on this site and elsewhere. None of those points raised there is conjectured.. They actually reflect views held on this matter.
Prof, some references would be nice.
But the most vociferous pro-FB critic here can be said to be Vancity and even he (as far as I know) has not said there is "no need" to look inwardly.

All he has ever argued, like many of us, is for those clamouring for local players to do the needful: name them, tell us why they feel they're good enough and mention who in the current SE squad they can displace simply by being better.
That's all.

Like I said, saying ''Nigeria's top players are abroad" is very different from saying "ALL our top players are abroad".
It has never been an all-or-none situation.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:51 am 
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Damunk wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Damunk,
Nope.. There are those who have indeed argued no need to look for players in Nigeria because the best players have left. That has been argued not just here but in the Nigerian media. While you may not hold those views personally, there are those who have on this site and elsewhere. None of those points raised there is conjectured.. They actually reflect views held on this matter.
Prof, some references would be nice.
But the most vociferous pro-FB critic here can be said to be Vancity and even he (as far as I know) has not said there is "no need" to look inwardly.

All he has ever argued, like many of us, is for those clamouring for local players to do the needful: name them, tell us why they feel they're good enough and mention who in the current SE squad they can displace simply by being better.
That's all.

Like I said, saying ''Nigeria's top players are abroad" is very different from saying "ALL our top players are abroad".
It has never been an all-or-none situation.




I'm not really on here much these days, so a few of these arguments are now hazy, but I do recall statements made on this forum similar to E2's position. Also, below is a quote attributed to Pinnick from last year that is also closer to what E2 said

Quote:
There’s a cause before an action. What I try to do is that I study the environment. First, why do we have to go out to pick players? Why do we look at the Nigeria Professional Football League and say it is not good enough?… If the truth be told, most players from the western climes are better exposed and are highly trained than what we can get here. The equipment they are exposed to is another factor too


https://punchng.com/nff-and-amaju-pinni ... ndictment/

I think the point E2 has been making is that better effort should be made by the coaching staff to discover and integrate home based players into the SE as there have to be some talented enough to make it onto the SE before they are fortunate enough to make it out to Europe and then automatically get on the radar of the coaching staff. The onus on highlighting these players shouldn't be on forum members especially those based abroad to do so.

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He says that we are currently "brainwashed" into believing that the Premier League is the best competition in the world, and that we are now a long way off dominating the Champions League again.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:58 pm 
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metalalloy wrote:
Damunk wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Damunk,
Nope.. There are those who have indeed argued no need to look for players in Nigeria because the best players have left. That has been argued not just here but in the Nigerian media. While you may not hold those views personally, there are those who have on this site and elsewhere. None of those points raised there is conjectured.. They actually reflect views held on this matter.
Prof, some references would be nice.
But the most vociferous pro-FB critic here can be said to be Vancity and even he (as far as I know) has not said there is "no need" to look inwardly.

All he has ever argued, like many of us, is for those clamouring for local players to do the needful: name them, tell us why they feel they're good enough and mention who in the current SE squad they can displace simply by being better.
That's all.

Like I said, saying ''Nigeria's top players are abroad" is very different from saying "ALL our top players are abroad".
It has never been an all-or-none situation.




I'm not really on here much these days, so a few of these arguments are now hazy, but I do recall statements made on this forum similar to E2's position. Also, below is a quote attributed to Pinnick from last year that is also closer to what E2 said

Quote:
There’s a cause before an action. What I try to do is that I study the environment. First, why do we have to go out to pick players? Why do we look at the Nigeria Professional Football League and say it is not good enough?… If the truth be told, most players from the western climes are better exposed and are highly trained than what we can get here. The equipment they are exposed to is another factor too


https://punchng.com/nff-and-amaju-pinni ... ndictment/

I think the point E2 has been making is that better effort should be made by the coaching staff to discover and integrate home based players into the SE as there have to be some talented enough to make it onto the SE before they are fortunate enough to make it out to Europe and then automatically get on the radar of the coaching staff. The onus on highlighting these players shouldn't be on forum members especially those based abroad to do so.


KPOM.

The scouting is not without error nor is talent pool static.

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The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics


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