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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:55 pm 
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1naija wrote:
Solowe is right. Musa Mohammed was the best player in the Trinadad and Tobago U17 team, but because he wasn't from Onigbinde's tribe he was never given a shot. This is my problem with our local coaches (except Amodu & Siasia). They may not do it on purpose (except in Onigbinde's case) ,but they are very tribalistic.

The Dolphins team that won 2004 NPL campionship had mostly Northern players, so Chukwu must not be doing a good job of scouting for them. There is blatant discrimination against Northern players, and we should stop making excuses for those that perpetrate this crime. If Amodu could find room for Northern players on the team, there was no reason why Onigbinde shouldn't have found room for them, and there is no reason why Chukwu is not finding room for them now. This must stop.

1naija do you have the line up for the 2004 dolphin team? thanks in advance.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:58 pm 
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1naija wrote:
Solowe is right. Musa Mohammed was the best player in the Trinadad and Tobago U17 team, but because he wasn't from Onigbinde's tribe he was never given a shot. This is my problem with our local coaches (except Amodu & Siasia). They may not do it on purpose (except in Onigbinde's case) ,but they are very tribalistic.

Dude, I have already mentioned Suleiman (not Musa) Mohammed. The same player who went to South Africa's Maroko Swallows for trials, failed to make it, returned to Nigeria and pointedly refused to play in the Nigerian League (while reportedly training with Wikki Tourists). Wherein lies the case that you are making?!

Quote:
The Dolphins team that won 2004 NPL campionship had mostly Northern players, so Chukwu must not be doing a good job of scouting for them. There is blatant discrimination against Northern players, and we should stop making excuses for those that perpetrate this crime. If Amodu could find room for Northern players on the team, there was no reason why Onigbinde shouldn't have found room for them, and there is no reason why Chukwu is not finding room for them now. This must stop.

You are either being facetious or you have to remind me of those "mostly Northern players" that allegedly predominated last year's Dolphin double-winning side. The only one that I distinctly recall is Abubakar Musa (the ex-U-20 player) who has already been capped under Chukwu.

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Last edited by Gotti on Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:13 pm 
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Gotti wrote:
Solowe wrote:
Gotti,

I totally disagree with you on the issue of discrimination against Northern players. You are forgetting that most of the coaches & administrators are southerners and the major decison making centers in our sports system is based in the south, so the chances of them overlooking northern players in scouting effort is more than likely. Aslo up untill a few years ago the players were only camped in lagos and most national team games were played and are stilled played in the south. So while the "playing field" may look level, it really is not.

With all due respect, where the players are/were camped has little or no nexus to national team invitation. Right from the earliest inception of organized football in Nigeria, Northern teams have regularly played many games in the South. And the inception of the league in 1973 (32 years ago) meant that the best Northern-based teams played SEVERAL times in SEVERAL Southern cities every year!


Gotti,

Once again I disagree with you on this issue. Location , Location, Location is very very important. I can garrantee you, if the entire power and base structure shifted to North more Northern players will get the teams.

Do you think ALL southern players feel comfortable traveling to the North. I bet you half of the ones who show up in camp in Ibadan or Lagos would not even bother making the trip to Kano


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:31 pm 
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This discussion has the potential to be a useful one, but it also has the potential to denegerate into a meaningless exercise in churlish ethnic-baiting -- and unfortunately Abubakar seems to be gunning for the latter.

Abubakar wrote:
This is a legitimate problem. Some of you try to claim that there are few northerners playing professional soccer abroad and this is why there has been less of them in the team. My goodness!!! What happened to Mohammed Musa (T&T U-17)? What happened to Ibrahim (Ibro) Ndalla? What happend to Aliyu Datti? Guys, please stop the break-dance!

I have already addressed the case of Suleiman (NOT Musa) Mohammed above. Ndala Ibrahim is a reserve at Maccabi Tel Aviv and has been variously invited to Nigeria's U-20 and u-23 teams, so wherein lies the alleged discrimination. While Mohammed Aliyu-Dati has won his only senior caps thus far under the much-maligned Chukwu.

Quote:
In the last 3 years Chukwu & his Southern cronies have taken the great SE through a high degree of experimentation with new players everyday. How they have not been able see the talents of the Mohammed's and the Ndalla's of this world really beats me.
Are they not supposed to be the same Nigerians like Ekwueme (the clubless man) and Chukwudi Nworgu (the great trialist).

The same "high degree of experimentation" has seen the likes of Abubakar Musa, Joseph Japhet, Ahmed Yaro Yaro, Rabiu Baita, Muhammed Aliyu-Dati, Abubakar Ibrahim, Greg Etafia, Haruna Babangida and even Garba Lawal (the "clubless man" at ANC 2004), variously don the Eagles' jersey.

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Somebody even had the liver to argue that the majority of Musa Abdullahi's T&T team were southerners due to lack of talents in the North. Insults!!! Did Coach Musa pick his team? Was it not the southern mafias that picked that team? They were so desperate to put in the like's of Eromoigbe (a 37 years old man) in the place of budding young Northern talents. Thank God for Coach Musa Abdullahi. He had the guts to include some 4 northerners in that team. See what all these boys have done with themselves.

So can you please tell us who exactly picked Musa Abdullahi's team? And how come the same "37-year-old" Richard Emoroigbe was this season seeing UEFA Cup action with Levski Sofia?! Does Levski (Garba Lawal's former team) equally has a "desperate" policy of replacing budding Northern talent with "37-year-old" Southerners?!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:48 pm 
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Solowe wrote:
And you may ask how come a large number of southern players get to go overseas?? It’s simply because of access!

Access to the coaches, access to the NFA, access being on highly visible team or areas. The southern players get most of the easy access to the channels that can get them noticed. As an example, the easiest way for a player to get noticed is through one of the junior national teams. If the coaches and the NFA are primarily selecting southern players, those are the people who get visibility and expose to the next level game and ultimate will get noticed by scouts from all around the world.

Westerhoff may not have found TJ, but he certainly had a lot to do with his career move overseas.

I guess that explains why Kenyans, Eritreans, Ethiopians, Somilians, South Africans, Tanzanians, Malawians, Sudanese, etc, do not get to go overseas in large numbers?!

This could be either a useful exercise in seriously examining the socio-cultural factors that stunt the development of Northern talent (which to his credit is what Waka seeks herein), one of churlish ethnic-baiting (Abubakar's regular forte) or simply one of the many conspiracy theories that regularly drive Nigerian public discourse.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:00 pm 
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Gotti wrote:
1naija wrote:
Solowe is right. Musa Mohammed was the best player in the Trinadad and Tobago U17 team, but because he wasn't from Onigbinde's tribe he was never given a shot. This is my problem with our local coaches (except Amodu & Siasia). They may not do it on purpose (except in Onigbinde's case) ,but they are very tribalistic.

Dude, I have already mentioned Suleiman (not Musa) Mohammed. The same player who went to South Africa's Maroko Swallows for trials, failed to make it, returned to Nigeria and pointedly refused to play in the Nigerian League (while reportedly training with Wikki Tourists). Wherein lies the case that you are making?!



I don't know why keep calling him Musa Mohammed.

Gotti, you confuse me sometimes. One minute you are saying Nigeria should not select SE players based on the opinion of an "Onyibo" man (like Robson benching Kanu), and the next minute you are using similar Onyibo man's opinion to justify a player not being given the opportunity to try out for the SE. How many succeful trials with foreign clubs did Nworgu, Opabumni, Osaze, Orjinta, etc have before they were given their first shot in the SE?


Gotti wrote:
Quote:
The Dolphins team that won 2004 NPL campionship had mostly Northern players, so Chukwu must not be doing a good job of scouting for them. There is blatant discrimination against Northern players, and we should stop making excuses for those that perpetrate this crime. If Amodu could find room for Northern players on the team, there was no reason why Onigbinde shouldn't have found room for them, and there is no reason why Chukwu is not finding room for them now. This must stop.


You are either being facetious or you have to remind me of those "mostly Northern players" that allegedly predominated last year's Dolphin double-winning side. The only one that I distinctly recall is Abubakar Musa (the ex-U-20 player) who has already been capped under Chukwu.


I saw a Dolphins team list for a match last season and it had at least 4 Northern players on it. But here are 5 that played prominent roles in their lasts season's championship. Ahmed Abdulrahman, Haruna Musa, Isiaka Danjuma, Bola Bello, and Yakubu Attah. Now tell me how many of these people has Chukwu capped? You have to admit that something is amiss.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:12 pm 
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1Naija,

How many Dolphins players have been capped?

I don't see why he should cap any players because they are Northerners.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:30 pm 
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1naija wrote:
I don't know why keep calling him Musa Mohammed.

Gotti, you confuse me sometimes. One minute you are saying Nigeria should not select SE players based on the opinion of an "Onyibo" man (like Robson benching Kanu), and the next minute you are using similar Onyibo man's opinion to justify a player not being given the opportunity to try out for the SE. How many succeful trials with foreign clubs did Nworgu, Opabumni, Osaze, Orjinta, etc have before they were given their first shot in the SE?

So Suleiman should be capped while sitting on his backside in his house because he is from a certain part of the country?! Of course most would acknowledge that I am a veritable champion of homebased players on this forum, but that does not equate to a free pass.

Quote:
I saw a Dolphins team list for a match last season and it had at least 4 Northern players on it. But here are 5 that played prominent roles in their lasts season's championship. Ahmed Abdulrahman, Haruna Musa, Isiaka Danjuma, Bola Bello, and Yakubu Attah. Now tell me how many of these people has Chukwu capped? You have to admit that something is amiss.

While I am not sure that Bola Bello is actually of Northern origin (not that it really matters), are you now proposing that every homebased Northern football player should be capped by the Eagles?! Including those who cannot even get a regular run of games at Dolphin (such as Haruna Musa)?!

Btw, Ahmed Abdulrahman is the longest-serving player at Dolphin, having been there since its Eagle Cement days, going back to 1992. Yet, to the best of my knowledge, not even your self-anointed best Nigerian coach Shiabu Amodu in his myriad stints as Eagles' coach (1994-95, 1996-97, 1998, 2000, 2001-02) has seen it fit to cap Ahmed -- even when he was prosecuting the ANCQs with primarily homebased players. Yet it is all a Chukwu conspiracy!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:47 pm 
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airwolex wrote:
1Naija,

How many Dolphins players have been capped?

I don't see why he should cap any players because they are Northerners.


I know of Chinwo and Rotimi Sunday, but there may be more.


No one is asking anyone to cap players based on where they are from, rather, we are saying every good Nigerian player should be given the opportunity to try out for the team. Like I said before, Suleiman Mohammed was arguably the best and most consistent player on the T&T U17 team, and yet Onigbinde found room for retired Mutiu and Opabumni ahead of him. So it's not just Chukwu that has failed to recognize Northern players.

Chukwu himself has tried over 300 players since being named the head coach, including MOST of ENYIMBA's first CAF championship team. Are you telling me he could not find one credible northern players, and yet Musa Adbullahi was able to find 5 for the Dolphins? I am not advocating that anyone should be GIVEN a spot on the team, but everyone should be given equal opportunity to compete for a spot.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:51 pm 
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Oba wrote:
Solowe, Celestine Babayaro is a Christain from the North. He is from Kaduna State.




Celestine Babayaro(Iwuoha) is from Imo state

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:52 pm 
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wawa wrote:
Oba wrote:
Solowe, Celestine Babayaro is a Christain from the North. He is from Kaduna State.


I said that the last time Solowe put up the tribal stuff and was told Cele is Ibo. The post was something to the fact that it is well known he is Ibo but a rather long story. May be someone should tell us.



I may have to dust up a report i read in a national daily after atlanta 96 where Cele and Emma Iwuoha told the story of their lives, but who knows, i may never find it

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:56 pm 
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1naija wrote:
Solowe is right. Musa Mohammed was the best player in the Trinadad and Tobago U17 team, but because he wasn't from Onigbinde's tribe he was never given a shot. This is my problem with our local coaches (except Amodu & Siasia). They may not do it on purpose (except in Onigbinde's case) ,but they are very tribalistic.

The Dolphins team that won 2004 NPL campionship had mostly Northern players, so Chukwu must not be doing a good job of scouting for them. There is blatant discrimination against Northern players, and we should stop making excuses for those that perpetrate this crime. If Amodu could find room for Northern players on the team, there was no reason why Onigbinde shouldn't have found room for them, and there is no reason why Chukwu is not finding room for them now. This must stop.







2004 squad

Chijioke Ejoigu
State: Imo state


Joe Eyimofe

State: Delta State


Emma Godwin

State: Akwa Ibom State


Kennedy Chinwo
State: Rivers State

Ahmed Abdulrahman
State: Kogi State


Jide Micheal
State: Osun State

Yakubu Attah
State: Kogi State



Prince Aguma
State: Rivers State


Obinna Nnodim
State: Imo State


Bola Bello
State: Kogi State


Kingsley Williams
State: Akwa Ibom


Uduak Udofia
State: Akwa Ibom


Albert Chinwo
State: Rivers State


Efosa Eguakun
State: Edo

Ochuko Ojobo
State: Delta


Victor Ezeji
State: Abia

Uwazuoke Wobo
State: rivers

Ibrahim Idoko
State: Benue


Kelechi Osunwa
State: Imo


Haruna Musa
State: Kogi


Sule Okiri
State: Rivers

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Last edited by jessica on Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:58 pm 
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airwolex wrote:
1Naija,

How many Dolphins players have been capped?

I don't see why he should cap any players because they are Northerners.




ten dolphins players were capped in the last LG cup in Libya.

before that, Ezeji, Rotimi, Chijjioke Ejiogu had been capped for the Super Eagles from Dolphin's 2004 team.

at junior level, the number increases by a mile

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:08 pm 
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1naija wrote:
Chukwu himself has tried over 300 players since being named the head coach, including MOST of ENYIMBA's first CAF championship team. Are you telling me he could not find one credible northern players, and yet Musa Adbullahi was able to find 5 for the Dolphins? I am not advocating that anyone should be GIVEN a spot on the team, but everyone should be given equal opportunity to compete for a spot.

1NAIJA:
Wasn't Musa Abdullahi assistant under Bora Milutonovich?! How many did he "find" then?

While Chukwu has NOT tried anything approaching 300 players since being named head coach, as I had already pointed out, just off the top of my head, he has capped the following (probably among others): Abubakar Musa, Joseph Japhet, Ahmed Yaro Yaro, Rabiu Baita, Muhammed Aliyu-Dati, Abubakar Ibrahim, Greg Etafia, Haruna Babangida and Garba Lawal.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:24 pm 
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Gotti wrote:

While I am not sure that Bola Bello is actually of Northern origin (not that it really matters), are you now proposing that every homebased Northern football player should be capped by the Eagles?! Including those who cannot even get a regular run of games at Dolphin (such as Haruna Musa)?!


GOTTI, I don't see why not, considering how many clubless players he has capped.

I know you get the point I am trying to make, but you don't want to admit it. This is not about Chukwu. It's about every player getting a fair chance to compete for a chance to play for the SE. That's how Udeze, Osaze, Aghahowa and many other were discovered. They were given a chance, and they excelled!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:29 pm 
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Chima wrote:
Solowe...I'm still waiting for the list of Northern players that you feel should have made the squad. :? :? :?


Chima,

Its an open secret that the Military power structure in Nigeria denies Igbo men a chance to hold the highest ranks in the Nigerian military. Can you give me the names of those men who are denied??

The truth is you cant and no one can.

The reason is becuse there may be a lot of Young Igbo guys who may want a career in Military but the fact that they know the military does not genarally welcome, recruit, encourage Igbos, would make them not enlist, So some of the best talent may not even show up to enlist.

And the ones that do get in may not entirly be the brightest and the best the Igbo group has to offer and whatsmore, they probably wont get a chance to fulfill there full potential anyway.

I hope this analogy does not escape you.

This is the same with the national soccer team. Many northern kids are already discouraged before they even lace their boots since they dont see many or any who looks like them on the team. While the discrimination on the national team may not be delibrate, its still there !!!

Please note, I am not singling out Chukwu here, I am actually accusing all southern Coaches and the NFA and our entire soccer establishment of this charge


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:40 pm 
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Solowe wrote:


Please note, I am not singling out Chukwu here, I am actually accusing all southern Coaches and the NFA and our entire soccer establishment of this charge


Solowe, is Onigbinde one of the southern coaches? I think he re-introduced tribalism into the National team selection. Do you agree?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:45 pm 
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Gotti wrote:
I respectfully disagree with your summation...

Solowe's point is quite clearly appears to be that there are international-class players up North that are being ignored by the purported Southern establishment that allegedly runs Nigerian football. He therefore talks about "scouting" (and not development) and buttresses same with his well-worn Musa Abdullahi example, while conveniently ignoring the fact that Abdullahi's U-23 Olympic squad had a miniscule amount of Northerners.


Gotti,

Wrong Gotti, I didnt say there were, but potentially are since they are not looking for them. Also I did talk about how terrible and our Scouting and "development" programs are in another reply I had to Balo..(i think).

And I wouldnt call the number of northern players on Abdulahis u-23 team "minuscile". He had at leat 5 players from the north on his team and they featured prominently, not as token ones who sit on the pine with southern coaches.

BTW, his 5 is the most I have ever seen on any national team.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:47 pm 
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1naija wrote:
I know you get the point I am trying to make, but you don't want to admit it. This is not about Chukwu. It's about every player getting a fair chance to compete for a chance to play for the SE. That's how Udeze, Osaze, Aghahowa and many other were discovered. They were given a chance, and they excelled!

Which was the same chance that has been afforded Ahmed Yaro Yaro, Muhammed Aliyu-Dati, Rabiu Baita, Greg Etafia and others.

Wittingly or otherwise, your thesis rests upon the unsubstantiated presumption that every Northern player is not getting a "fair chance" to excel, apparently based on nothing more than numbers. This thesis totally and summarily discounts the role of (actual or perceived) ability in a very competitive market place.

And of course it fails to explain why the Sudanese, Kenyans, Eritreans, Ethiopians, Nigeriens, Tanzanians, Malawians, etc, who have presumably not been held down by Southern Nigerian coaches (and who love football just as much as Nigerians) have not been able to take their own chances and "excel" thereto.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:54 pm 
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Solowe wrote:
BTW, his 5 is the most I have ever seen on any national team.

Please name the 5 and the "prominent" roles they played in the U-23 team...
PS: And feel free to wake me up when you get past Ndala Ibrahim.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:01 pm 
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airwolex wrote:
Abeg leave Solowe o! He is trying. 2 years ago anybody to the East of Ondo was Igbo at least now he lumps them up together as Naija-Delta :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Air,

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:16 pm 
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Gotti wrote:
Solowe wrote:
BTW, his 5 is the most I have ever seen on any national team.

Please name the 5 and the "prominent" roles they played in the U-23 team...
PS: And feel free to wake me up when you get past Ndala Ibrahim.


Gotti,

I actually did a "ethnic-breakdown" on it.

I dont have the list right now, but there were 5 of them before he got fired. It was Ikhana who changed the composition of the team


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:38 pm 
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Solowe wrote:
While I am a huge fan of Garba Lawal and have always been a staunch advocate of his inclusion on our national teams, I would venture to say almost everyone agrees that Garba is a spent force and is at the twilight of his career. However, the NFA and our coaches will continue to invite him because they have no other Northern players to fill that ethnic quota.

His inclusion at this stage of his career proves what I have been criticizing about Nigeria’s team selections and our need to ethnically balance our teams at all cost. This shows that we are either deliberately excluding players from the north or doing a very poor job discovering them.

For those who are so inclined, here is the ethnic breakdown of Chukwus team Vs Gabon


IGBO
Austin Ejide (Etoile du Sahel/TUN) ..should not be on the team anymore
Chidi Odiah (CSKA Moscow/RUS)..We will see what all the noise is about
Celestine Babayaro (Newcastle/ENG)...we should be done with cele by now
Christian Obodo (Fiorentina/ITA)...Yujams wife
Ifeanyi Ekwueme (Aris Salonika/GR)...Chukwus love child
Nwankwo Kanu (West Bromwich Albion/ENG)....Common on !! ??
John Utaka (RC Lens/FRA)

YORUBA
Taye Taiwo (Olympique Marseille/FRA).. So much hype...he better perform
Seyi Olofinjana (Wolverhampton Wanderers/ENG)
Yusuf Ayila (Dynamo Kiev/UKR) We sill see what he is made of
Obafemi Martins (Inter/ENG)

NIGER DELTA
Vincent Enyeama (no club)
Joseph Yobo (Everton/ENG)
Ifeanyi Udeze (PAOK Salonika/GRE)
Obinna Nwaneri (Esperance/TUN) ..should be a started over Enakahire
Joseph Enakarhire (Sporting Lisbon/POR)..should not be on the team
Wilson Oruma (Sochaux/FRA)..we should be done with him by now
Austin Okocha (Bolton Wanderers/ENG)
Julius Aghahowa (Shakhtar Donetsk/UKR)
Osaze Odemwingie (Lille/FRA),
Yakubu Aiyegbeni (Portsmouth/ENG)...fair weather player..he should score in this one.

NORTHERNGarba Lawal (Santa Clara/POR)

You guys must be silly!!! how could you place JayJay Okocha as not being an IBO Person??? What's wrong with You people. can somebody pls translate the word OKOCHA and tell us what it means??? Even Nduka Ugbade that i once met in Isreal spoke the IBO languge better and more fluently than myself yet they say he's not IBO. Even OLISEH whose younger bro's name Is Azubuike is still considered a non-IBO.. moreover their parents who I know one on one spoke IBO. This is senseless. The fact is that the IBO's are the lost tribe of the jews they migrated to other places in Nigeria, and still maitain their language and culture. Pls let's be realistic here OK?? Eve Keshi whose middle name is OKechukwu is still grouped on this site as a NON- IBO are there no people with common sense in this forum??? These people who geographically are in the delta area of Naija are IBOs please and only speak IBO language, though with a different dialect This response of mine is by no means intended to cause trouble or clain players but C'mon MY PEOPLE let the "TRUTH BE TOLD"

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