Rohr has already spent 5 years.. (RSTV)

[Enugu II]

Damunk
Several of those listed have achieved far more than Rohr did before he was hired. That is exactly the point

Such as?
Renner, I have already described as ‘decent’ but is not available and recently turned down South Africa.
So hiring him is not the ‘piece of cake’ you describe.

Thanks for accepting that his record is better than Rohr's record. Now, who says that because he is currently engaged that he cannot be hired by Nigeria? Are you stating that the only hirable coaches are those out of a job currently? It does not work that way, he can be hired if he thinks Nigeria provides him a higher profile.

You can’t possibly claim that Amuneke’s record, or Eguavon’s surpass Rohr’s. Fear God nah.
Oliseh…
Which achievements again?

I have not made such a claim. I assume you are now inputting that. .....LOL. Read again. The point is that at the point that Rohr was hired. He is not better than the current record of the other names mentioned. The fact that Nigeria, therefore, hired Rohr at that time logically shows that we can hire someone with similar Rohr's record at hire with the expectation that the hire can achieve similarly or even better with a few tweaks.

The Sjevencho guy is no different from Rohr. Can’t see what is supposedly “better” in him that’ll make a difference. He’s been around though, for sure.

Simply see above.

Theoretically, therefore, one would expect them to achieve more than Rohr is currently doing with a highly talented team called the Super Eagles. That is precisely y the logic.

That’s a supposition which is neither here nor there. You wouldn’t throw away what you already have in hand and start all over again for a very unproven replacement based on theory alone.

Well, risk averse is also achievement deprived. You know the saying. Stand pat for ever because of fearing change.

You wouldn’t hire the Ghanaian or Cameroonian U17 World Cup-winning coach that ‘carried last’ in AFCON to coach the SE.
You absolutely know that. Never!

For easy comparison, compare their current record to Rohr's achievements before Rohr was hired to manage Nigeria. Thst should tell you want you need to know

.That’s what I am struggling to see.
And why “before” Rohr took over the SE?
Is that a subtle acknowledgement that he has improved his CV during his tenure with the SE?

It isn't subtle. In fact, it is the key to the debate.... Rohr's achievements with SE, inspite of its low level, came because of the talent he has at his disposal. That means, that someone else with similar talent at disposal can DO MUCH BETTER. That is the most important point.

Damunk, may ask whether in your strident haste to defend Rohr you have suddenly forgot that Renard actually won an AFCON? Was that just an oversight or was is something you wanted to sweep under the carpet?

Answered already, first paragraph of my initial response.
Did you not see it?

[Damunk]

Damunk
Several of those listed have achieved far more than Rohr did before he was hired. That is exactly the point

Such as?
Renner, I have already described as ‘decent’ but is not available and recently turned down South Africa.
So hiring him is not the ‘piece of cake’ you describe.

Thanks for accepting that his record is better than Rohr's record. Now, who says that because he is currently engaged that he cannot be hired by Nigeria? Are you stating that the only hirable coaches are those out of a job currently? It does not work that way, he can be hired if he thinks Nigeria provides him a higher profile.

Prof, but you stated "several of those listed', which I highlighted and was disputing. Which list other than the one you made yourself were you referring to and which other list was I referring to?
Secondly, you mentioned hiring a better coach would be 'a piece of cake' which it definitely is not.
Aside from the quality of players, South Africa would by all measures be a better attraction than Nigeria at the moment for obvious reasons that are not at all in dispute.
I doubt you would argue with that.
So Renner's joining up with us would in most likelihood NOT be on the cards especially now he is in a cushy job in Saudi.
So the ONLY coach with a better resume than Rohr's on your list is OUT of the equation.
Really, you can't be disputing this in any seriousness Prof?

You can’t possibly claim that Amuneke’s record, or Eguavon’s surpass Rohr’s. Fear God nah.
Oliseh…
Which achievements again?

I have not made such a claim. I assume you are now inputting that. .....LOL. Read again.

Thank you for subtly agreeing that hiring any of these others on your list would be what I described earlier as 'replacement for replacement's sake'.
Again you inadvertently bring up an argument that is not being argued i.e that Rohr is 'the best ever, or 'the most brilliant' , or 'an irreplaceable' coach. No-one is saying that. So why are what exactly are we debating here?
No-one is arguing with you or anyone that Rohr is our coach-for-life either. We are talking about firing and then hiring a better coach and you came up with a list which I am disputing.
Put on your list any coach with a decent enough resume that we have a reasonable chance of hiring and there will be NO argument. But you have NOT done that, Prof. No-one has.
I didn't even argue on Renner, even though others might.

point is that at the point that Rohr was hired. He is not better than the current record of the other names mentioned. The fact that Nigeria, therefore, hired Rohr at that time logically shows that we can hire someone with similar Rohr's record at hire with the expectation that the hire can achieve similarly or even better with a few tweaks.

Yes, but to what end? Why and when? How realistic is that expectation?
I've already asked you this. Are we firing now? After the AFCON? Before the WC? When he 'fails'? Has he failed? Is he failing? I still don't get where your argument is heading.
No coach stays in post for life, no matter how successful he once was. So are you saying that there are those that believe Rohr's case is different? That he can eventually be replaced is not in dispute. He will be. But we wouldn't be debating if the subtle implication of your argument wasn't that we should do it now.
Otherwise again, nobody is arguing with you.

Well, risk averse is also achievement deprived. You know the saying. Stand pat for ever because of fearing change.

Calculated risk Prof. Not risk-taking based on a whim.
Give me a great coach with a record and there is no argument. I repeat, you wouldn’t hire the Ghanaian or Cameroonian U17 World Cup-winning coach that ‘carried last’ in AFCON to coach the SE. But it seems you are suggesting it as a viable possibility.

For easy comparison, compare their current record to Rohr's achievements before Rohr was hired to manage Nigeria. Thst should tell you want you need to know

.That’s what I am struggling to see.
And why “before” Rohr took over the SE?
Is that a subtle acknowledgement that he has improved his CV during his tenure with the SE?

It isn't subtle. In fact, it is the key to the debate.... Rohr's achievements with SE, inspite of its low level, came because of the talent he has at his disposal. That means, that someone else with similar talent at disposal can DO MUCH BETTER. That is the most important point.

Prof, ANYBODY can "do much better". Anybody can do much worse. You calculate your risk assessment. Your argument is basically saying that virtually anyone brought in can do better because of the talent available in Nigeria.
For starters, Naija is NOT the only talented country in Africa. By "doing better", any new coach will have to do better than a couple of countries with "better" talent. Win an AFCON gold or silver. Doable, but what are the chances if he comes in at this stage? Can you handle it if he 'fails'?

It is not a birthright and I have heard you say this before yourself. But now you suggest otherwise. Failure to recognise the amount of talent currently available in other African countries is the first step to failure of ANY coach. Algeria, Ivory Coast, Senegal, Morocco are all supremely blessed at the moment and whether it is Guardiola or Klopp or Pochettino that comes in, he'd best be aware and not believe that it'll be a walk in the park simply because Nigeria has "a huge amount of talent" at his disposal.
Arguably, some of our rivals have even more...

[Enugu II]

point is that at the point that Rohr was hired. He is not better than the current record of the other names mentioned. The fact that Nigeria, therefore, hired Rohr at that time logically shows that we can hire someone with similar Rohr's record at hire with the expectation that the hire can achieve similarly or even better with a few tweaks.

Yes, but to what end? Why and when? How realistic is that expectation?
I've already asked you this. Are we firing now? After the AFCON? Before the WC? When he 'fails'? Has he failed? Is he failing? I still don't get where your argument is heading.
No coach stays in post for life, no matter how successful he once was. So are you saying that there are those that believe Rohr's case is different? That he can eventually be replaced is not in dispute. He will be. But we wouldn't be debating if the subtle implication of your argument wasn't that we should do it now.
Otherwise again, nobody is arguing with you.

Damunk, it then appears that you jumped into an argument that you never understood in the first place. If you paid attention , I have not and never advocated for Rohr to be fired now. You do realize that there are huge courts involved in doing that. My position has never been to fire him now. My position is that he should be let go at the end of his contract. In essence, NOT TO RENEW the contract if he fails to achieve one of the following: (1) WIN THE AFCON, and/or (2) get to the quarters of the World Cup. In essence, I see no basis for retaining Rohr if he fails to achieve those thresholds. I hope you do understand may position. I am surprised that you fail to understand this as I have infect REPEATEDL:Y made this quite clear.

Well, risk averse is also achievement deprived. You know the saying. Stand pat for ever because of fearing change.

Calculated risk Prof. Not risk-taking based on a whim.
Give me a great coach with a record and there is no argument. I repeat, you wouldn’t hire the Ghanaian or Cameroonian U17 World Cup-winning coach that ‘carried last’ in AFCON to coach the SE. But it seems you are suggesting it as a viable possibility.

Actually, your risk is extremely minimal and I would not equate it as reaching an acceptable risk for me. In fact, the risk that I point to is in fact not even as high as it could be. What I have advocated is only a bit riskier than what you put forward but with a pay off that is possibly better. I state this because for five years we have come to know Rohr and his leverl of aversiveness to risk may well be hold us back. I want someone willing to take more risks in how he/she sees the game.

For easy comparison, compare their current record to Rohr's achievements before Rohr was hired to manage Nigeria. Thst should tell you want you need to know

.That’s what I am struggling to see.
And why “before” Rohr took over the SE?
Is that a subtle acknowledgement that he has improved his CV during his tenure with the SE?

It isn't subtle. In fact, it is the key to the debate.... Rohr's achievements with SE, inspite of its low level, came because of the talent he has at his disposal. That means, that someone else with similar talent at disposal can DO MUCH BETTER. That is the most important point.

Prof, ANYBODY can "do much better". Anybody can do much worse. You calculate your risk assessment. Your argument is basically saying that virtually anyone brought in can do better because of the talent available in Nigeria.
For starters, Naija is NOT the only talented country in Africa. By "doing better", any new coach will have to do better than a couple of countries with "better" talent. Win an AFCON gold or silver. Doable, but what are the chances if he comes in at this stage? Can you handle it if he 'fails'?

This is where we deviate, with Nigeria's records to do better is to win the AFCON. Winning bronze at the AFCON is generally rudimentary for Nigeria. You only have to look at the records. What we want and expect is to win the AFCON. Rohr has not done that yet. He will get another chance at it. Ig he fails again then he has to GO.

It is not a birthright and I have heard you say this before yourself. But now you suggest otherwise. Failure to recognise the amount of talent currently available in other African countries is the first step to failure of ANY coach. Algeria, Ivory Coast, Senegal, Morocco are all supremely blessed at the moment and whether it is Guardiola or Klopp or Pochettino that comes in, he'd best be aware and not believe that it'll be a walk in the park simply because Nigeria has "a huge amount of talent" at his disposal.
Arguably, some of our rivals have even more...

It isn't a birthright of course. However, it is an expectation and a point of determining success or failutre. If Rohr does not do it, he has to go. You do realize that Eguavoen over a short period also won an AFCON bronze. Yet, you derided that as not being comparable to Rohr's achievements. Why? Now, I am not stating that our expectation is to finish with a bronze at AFCON. We have done that for so many times now. We want to win the AFCON. We have only done so three times! We have finished second two times. Those five are brettyer than what Rohr has achieved.

[/quote]

[Damunk]

Prof to win AFCON is everyone's desire and indeed a reasonable expectation.

But you have followed football long enough to recognise that losing out on something by a close shave is down to several factors, some infinitesimally small which could have nothing to do with performance.
You can win and lose simply riding on your luck. Winning or not winning a tournament could simply be down to a marginal ref decision, or a questionable VAR, or a slip by a defender, or a moment of madness by an irate player.
The possibilities are endless.

Bottomline is you assess the overall performance and eventual outcome once all is said and done.
To whom much is given much is expected, but hiring and firing must be done with sense.
We need to learn from the more successful nations how to manage the ups and downs of football.

You were willing to interpret the Mexico drubbing in its correct context unlike many typically firebrand (excuse the pun) SE 'experts' - and that is how it should be.

Amodu for instance was fired for many dubious reasons, including the fact that he didn't play 'attractive Nigerian football'.
Let me remind you (not that you need reminding)

Nigeria sack coach Shaibu
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 828030.stm
Amodu paid for a poor African Nations Cup campaign
Nigeria's World Cup plans have been thrown into disarray by the sacking of coach Shaibu Amodu.
Amodu paid the price for a disappointing African Nations Cup campaign in which the Super Eagles went out at the semi-final stage. (Bronze)
The tournament in Mali was followed by a huge public outcry in Nigeria for the team to be reorganised before the World Cup in Japan and South Korea.
Amodu, 42, only took charge of the side last April after Dutchman Jo Bonfrere was sacked in the middle of the country's World Cup qualifying campaign.
His departure is good news for Nigeria's World Cup opponents England, Argentina and Sweden, who have been drawn to face Nigeria in the so-called Group of Death.

We all saw his achievements which at the time were dismissed as "nothing special". That was part of "the huge public outcry" mentioned in the article. Contrary to popular and revised opinion today, it was Nigerian fans doing their usual thing and not solely the NFA acting arbitrarily against public opinion. We were all in the madness together.

It was stupid then and such an approach is still stupid now.

"Sack with sense" is my advice.
That 'sense' also includes having a worthy successor lined up and ready.

[Adisboy]

Prof to win AFCON is everyone's desire and indeed a reasonable expectation.

But you have followed football long enough to recognise that losing out on something by a close shave is down to several factors, some infinitesimally small which could have nothing to do with performance.
You can win and lose simply riding on your luck. Winning or not winning a tournament could simply be down to a marginal ref decision, or a questionable VAR, or a slip by a defender, or a moment of madness by an irate player.
The possibilities are endless.

Bottomline is you assess the overall performance and eventual outcome once all is said and done.
To whom much is given much is expected, but hiring and firing must be done with sense.
We need to learn from the more successful nations how to manage the ups and downs of football.

You were willing to interpret the Mexico drubbing in its correct context unlike many typically firebrand (excuse the pun) SE 'experts' - and that is how it should be.

Amodu for instance was fired for many dubious reasons, including the fact that he didn't play 'attractive Nigerian football'.
Let me remind you (not that you need reminding)

Nigeria sack coach Shaibu
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 828030.stm
Amodu paid for a poor African Nations Cup campaign
Nigeria's World Cup plans have been thrown into disarray by the sacking of coach Shaibu Amodu.
Amodu paid the price for a disappointing African Nations Cup campaign in which the Super Eagles went out at the semi-final stage. (Bronze)
The tournament in Mali was followed by a huge public outcry in Nigeria for the team to be reorganised before the World Cup in Japan and South Korea.
Amodu, 42, only took charge of the side last April after Dutchman Jo Bonfrere was sacked in the middle of the country's World Cup qualifying campaign.
His departure is good news for Nigeria's World Cup opponents England, Argentina and Sweden, who have been drawn to face Nigeria in the so-called Group of Death.

We all saw his achievements which at the time were dismissed as "nothing special". That was part of "the huge public outcry" mentioned in the article. Contrary to popular and revised opinion today, it was Nigerian fans doing their usual thing and not solely the NFA acting arbitrarily against public opinion. We were all in the madness together.

It was stupid then and such an approach is still stupid now.

"Sack with sense" is my advice.
That 'sense' also includes having a worthy successor lined up and ready.

Bro please tell them. Why do we always try to repeat past mistakes and hope for better outcomes? This same scenario repeated itself to the same person Amodu in 2010 and we spent an insane amount of money on a "World Class" coach to replace him only to record our worst World Cup performance in history in the weakest world cup group we ever found ourselves. Don't forget we had players like Martins, Obasi, Yakubu, Odemwingie, Uche, Kanu, Enyeama, etc. Also but for Keshi winning the AFCON the year before similar would have happened to him. Now it is the same threat dangled over Rohr. This is not the way to go. Rohr should be allowed to go to the World Cup if he qualifies. The AFCON ends in February, the play-offs are in March. It will be extremely foolhardy to sack the coach after the AFCON, especially if he gets to the latter stages. After the World Cup his contract ends, then and only then I expect the NFF to move in a new direction and that would make more sense.

[joao]

Sometimes I wonder if self-proclaimed 'football experts' think coaching success is like
linear arithmetic. Guardiola, with all the expensive talents accorded him at ManCity is yet to
win for his club the coveted UEFA Champions League trophy. Due to the competitive nature of
football coupled with the unrealistic expectations of fans, there are many coaches who at the
end of this season, will be described as 'useless, and need to be fired'.

I'm beginning to think that these unrealistic fans were wishing there is no competition,
so their respective teams will always have a a wining season, and a trophy to brag about.

[Damunk]

Sometimes I wonder if self-proclaimed 'football experts' think coaching success is like
linear arithmetic. Guardiola, with all the expensive talents accorded him at ManCity is yet to
win for his club the coveted UEFA Champions League trophy. Due to the competitive nature of
football coupled with the unrealistic expectations of fans, there are many coaches who at the
end of this season, will be described as 'useless, and need to be fired'.

I'm beginning to think that these unrealistic fans were wishing there is no competition,
so their respective teams will always have a a wining season, and a trophy to brag about.

[Enugu II]

Prof to win AFCON is everyone's desire and indeed a reasonable expectation.

But you have followed football long enough to recognise that losing out on something by a close shave is down to several factors, some infinitesimally small which could have nothing to do with performance.
You can win and lose simply riding on your luck. Winning or not winning a tournament could simply be down to a marginal ref decision, or a questionable VAR, or a slip by a defender, or a moment of madness by an irate player.
The possibilities are endless.

Bottomline is you assess the overall performance and eventual outcome once all is said and done.
To whom much is given much is expected, but hiring and firing must be done with sense.
We need to learn from the more successful nations how to manage the ups and downs of football.

You were willing to interpret the Mexico drubbing in its correct context unlike many typically firebrand (excuse the pun) SE 'experts' - and that is how it should be.

Amodu for instance was fired for many dubious reasons, including the fact that he didn't play 'attractive Nigerian football'.
Let me remind you (not that you need reminding)

Nigeria sack coach Shaibu
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 828030.stm
Amodu paid for a poor African Nations Cup campaign
Nigeria's World Cup plans have been thrown into disarray by the sacking of coach Shaibu Amodu.
Amodu paid the price for a disappointing African Nations Cup campaign in which the Super Eagles went out at the semi-final stage. (Bronze)
The tournament in Mali was followed by a huge public outcry in Nigeria for the team to be reorganised before the World Cup in Japan and South Korea.
Amodu, 42, only took charge of the side last April after Dutchman Jo Bonfrere was sacked in the middle of the country's World Cup qualifying campaign.
His departure is good news for Nigeria's World Cup opponents England, Argentina and Sweden, who have been drawn to face Nigeria in the so-called Group of Death.

We all saw his achievements which at the time were dismissed as "nothing special". That was part of "the huge public outcry" mentioned in the article. Contrary to popular and revised opinion today, it was Nigerian fans doing their usual thing and not solely the NFA acting arbitrarily against public opinion. We were all in the madness together.

It was stupid then and such an approach is still stupid now.

"Sack with sense" is my advice.
That 'sense' also includes having a worthy successor lined up and ready.

Damunk,

First, the national team is not an academy. You do not need a worthy successor lined up or ready. I hope that I am interpreting this correctly. Here, I assume that the worthy successor is one that you have groomed. If not then, I am with you. A worthy successor could then mean someone that is BELIEVED with the wherewithal to achieve. That is always the case with hiring at the NT level. Nigeria will not be different.

While, I agree that winning the AFCON is not any mathematical assurance, there are still expectations for a country like Nigeria that not only is expected to win the AFCON but is actually expected always to be one of Africva's leadings lights at the global level. If you have lowered expectations, I can assure you that most Nigerians are not with you on that. In fact, the expectation is even further heightened with access to several players developed in academies overseas. If you do not realize what the goal is in getting such players better understand that there is a template for that. Amaju was Director of Sports in Delta when he used that template to sign up similar athletes and dominated athletics in Nigeria. Its is that very template that he has sought to implement from Day 1 at the SR level. Make no mistake about it. It is top diominate Africa. To now here that we ought to be satisfied buy being also-ran is shocking to state the least given the template that had been put in place from Day 1.

The truth is that the expectation is to DOMINATE as we did in the mid-1990s. The the,plate is in place but domination is missing. If the coach is the problem, he will be terminated. But make no mistake about the ultimate goal. Is never to be also-ran.

Ultimately at the end of Rohr's current contract, he will be Nigeria's former coach if he fails to deliver the AFCON and/or progress beyond the opening round of the World Cup. That much is a certainty. Nigeria drives to win trophies in Africa and do reasonably well in the World competitions. Nigeria is noeither Togo nor is it Niger Republic where merely arriving at a competition and being also-ran is celebrated. Most certainly, it is not the expectation based on the stringent recruitment and efforts made under Amaju Pinnick.

[wanaj0]

Sometimes I wonder if self-proclaimed 'football experts' think coaching success is like
linear arithmetic. Guardiola, with all the expensive talents accorded him at ManCity is yet to
win for his club the coveted UEFA Champions League trophy. Due to the competitive nature of
football coupled with the unrealistic expectations of fans, there are many coaches who at the
end of this season, will be described as 'useless, and need to be fired'.

I'm beginning to think that these unrealistic fans were wishing there is no competition,
so their respective teams will always have a a wining season, and a trophy to brag about.

It is not unrealistic for us to expect Nigeria to qualify for 2nd round of a world cup! We should have sacked ROHR immediately after that.

If we qualify for the WC and could not qualify for the 2nd round Rohr should just leave from the WC venue!

I am beginning to believe that some people will accept mediocrity! Exit at first round of WC is unacceptable to Nigeria!!!! WE can and should be doing better than that. Without a coach we can exit at the WC 1st round anyway

[vancity eagle]

Prof to win AFCON is everyone's desire and indeed a reasonable expectation.

But you have followed football long enough to recognise that losing out on something by a close shave is down to several factors, some infinitesimally small which could have nothing to do with performance.
You can win and lose simply riding on your luck. Winning or not winning a tournament could simply be down to a marginal ref decision, or a questionable VAR, or a slip by a defender, or a moment of madness by an irate player.
The possibilities are endless.

Bottomline is you assess the overall performance and eventual outcome once all is said and done.
To whom much is given much is expected, but hiring and firing must be done with sense.
We need to learn from the more successful nations how to manage the ups and downs of football.

You were willing to interpret the Mexico drubbing in its correct context unlike many typically firebrand (excuse the pun) SE 'experts' - and that is how it should be.

Amodu for instance was fired for many dubious reasons, including the fact that he didn't play 'attractive Nigerian football'.
Let me remind you (not that you need reminding)

Nigeria sack coach Shaibu
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 828030.stm
Amodu paid for a poor African Nations Cup campaign
Nigeria's World Cup plans have been thrown into disarray by the sacking of coach Shaibu Amodu.
Amodu paid the price for a disappointing African Nations Cup campaign in which the Super Eagles went out at the semi-final stage. (Bronze)
The tournament in Mali was followed by a huge public outcry in Nigeria for the team to be reorganised before the World Cup in Japan and South Korea.
Amodu, 42, only took charge of the side last April after Dutchman Jo Bonfrere was sacked in the middle of the country's World Cup qualifying campaign.
His departure is good news for Nigeria's World Cup opponents England, Argentina and Sweden, who have been drawn to face Nigeria in the so-called Group of Death.

We all saw his achievements which at the time were dismissed as "nothing special". That was part of "the huge public outcry" mentioned in the article. Contrary to popular and revised opinion today, it was Nigerian fans doing their usual thing and not solely the NFA acting arbitrarily against public opinion. We were all in the madness together.

It was stupid then and such an approach is still stupid now.

"Sack with sense" is my advice.
That 'sense' also includes having a worthy successor lined up and ready.

Bro please tell them. Why do we always try to repeat past mistakes and hope for better outcomes? This same scenario repeated itself to the same person Amodu in 2010 and we spent an insane amount of money on a "World Class" coach to replace him only to record our worst World Cup performance in history in the weakest world cup group we ever found ourselves. Don't forget we had players like Martins, Obasi, Yakubu, Odemwingie, Uche, Kanu, Enyeama, etc. Also but for Keshi winning the AFCON the year before similar would have happened to him. Now it is the same threat dangled over Rohr. This is not the way to go. Rohr should be allowed to go to the World Cup if he qualifies. The AFCON ends in February, the play-offs are in March. It will be extremely foolhardy to sack the coach after the AFCON, especially if he gets to the latter stages. After the World Cup his contract ends, then and only then I expect the NFF to move in a new direction and that would make more sense.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you in regards to WC 2010

but I think our failure had more to do with a piss poor and depleted midfield than anything else.

Remember Mikel was injured and that had a serious effect on our game.

Our midfielders were an inexperienced Haruna Lukman and a mechanical d#$% Etuhu. It doesn't matter how much quality our strike force had if that was the midfield we were working with.

I believe had Mikel been in South Africa we would definately have qualified from that group.

[vancity eagle]

Sometimes I wonder if self-proclaimed 'football experts' think coaching success is like
linear arithmetic. Guardiola, with all the expensive talents accorded him at ManCity is yet to
win for his club the coveted UEFA Champions League trophy. Due to the competitive nature of
football coupled with the unrealistic expectations of fans, there are many coaches who at the
end of this season, will be described as 'useless, and need to be fired'.

I'm beginning to think that these unrealistic fans were wishing there is no competition,
so their respective teams will always have a a wining season, and a trophy to brag about.

It is not unrealistic for us to expect Nigeria to qualify for 2nd round of a world cup! We should have sacked ROHR immediately after that.

If we qualify for the WC and could not qualify for the 2nd round Rohr should just leave from the WC venue!

I am beginning to believe that some people will accept mediocrity! Exit at first round of WC is unacceptable to Nigeria!!!! WE can and should be doing better than that. Without a coach we can exit at the WC 1st round anyway

So Nigeria is better than Croatia and Argentina ?

You guys and your silly mantras.

Every WC group is not the same.

Failing to qualify from the group we had in 2010 South Africa (Greece, Argentina, South Korea) was a disgrace and is certainly a sackable offense.

Failing to beat the team that finished #2 in that tournament and Argentina is another thing entirely.

No sane federation will fire a coach of a second rate football nation for failing to beat ARgentina or Croatia.

I know for a fact you will not be calling for your favourite coach to be sacked for that kind of "failure"

[Damunk]

Sometimes I wonder if self-proclaimed 'football experts' think coaching success is like
linear arithmetic. Guardiola, with all the expensive talents accorded him at ManCity is yet to
win for his club the coveted UEFA Champions League trophy. Due to the competitive nature of
football coupled with the unrealistic expectations of fans, there are many coaches who at the
end of this season, will be described as 'useless, and need to be fired'.

I'm beginning to think that these unrealistic fans were wishing there is no competition,
so their respective teams will always have a a wining season, and a trophy to brag about.

It is not unrealistic for us to expect Nigeria to qualify for 2nd round of a world cup! We should have sacked ROHR immediately after that.

If we qualify for the WC and could not qualify for the 2nd round Rohr should just leave from the WC venue!

I am beginning to believe that some people will accept mediocrity! Exit at first round of WC is unacceptable to Nigeria!!!! WE can and should be doing better than that. Without a coach we can exit at the WC 1st round anyway

And who is arguing with you that exiting the WC in the first round is “acceptable”?
King of Strawland!

You fail to better Croatia and Argentina and you reflexly sack your coach?
Very wise indeed!

[wanaj0]

Sometimes I wonder if self-proclaimed 'football experts' think coaching success is like
linear arithmetic. Guardiola, with all the expensive talents accorded him at ManCity is yet to
win for his club the coveted UEFA Champions League trophy. Due to the competitive nature of
football coupled with the unrealistic expectations of fans, there are many coaches who at the
end of this season, will be described as 'useless, and need to be fired'.

I'm beginning to think that these unrealistic fans were wishing there is no competition,
so their respective teams will always have a a wining season, and a trophy to brag about.

It is not unrealistic for us to expect Nigeria to qualify for 2nd round of a world cup! We should have sacked ROHR immediately after that.

If we qualify for the WC and could not qualify for the 2nd round Rohr should just leave from the WC venue!

I am beginning to believe that some people will accept mediocrity! Exit at first round of WC is unacceptable to Nigeria!!!! WE can and should be doing better than that. Without a coach we can exit at the WC 1st round anyway

So Nigeria is better than Croatia and Argentina ?

You guys and your silly mantras.

Every WC group is not the same.

Failing to qualify from the group we had in 2010 South Africa (Greece, Argentina, South Korea) was a disgrace and is certainly a sackable offense.

Failing to beat the team that finished #2 in that tournament and Argentina is another thing entirely.

No sane federation will fire a coach of a second rate football nation for failing to beat ARgentina or Croatia.

I know for a fact you will not be calling for your favourite coach to be sacked for that kind of "failure"

If Rohr is able to match the record of Keshi who you continue to insult Rohr would be considered a success! And Amodu is my favourite coach right from his Niger Tornadoes to BCC days I support WINNERS.

And yes, Keshi and Amodu achieved so much even with TRAITORS like you who went to the extent of wishing DEATH on someone whose crime was just agreeing to coach the SE

Matches are played to determine who is BETTER! If we know that we stand no chance then we should not bother wasting money going for the tournament. I don't care who is in our group, absolute minimum is qualifying for the 2nd round of the WC!

[wanaj0]

Sometimes I wonder if self-proclaimed 'football experts' think coaching success is like
linear arithmetic. Guardiola, with all the expensive talents accorded him at ManCity is yet to
win for his club the coveted UEFA Champions League trophy. Due to the competitive nature of
football coupled with the unrealistic expectations of fans, there are many coaches who at the
end of this season, will be described as 'useless, and need to be fired'.

I'm beginning to think that these unrealistic fans were wishing there is no competition,
so their respective teams will always have a a wining season, and a trophy to brag about.

It is not unrealistic for us to expect Nigeria to qualify for 2nd round of a world cup! We should have sacked ROHR immediately after that.

If we qualify for the WC and could not qualify for the 2nd round Rohr should just leave from the WC venue!

I am beginning to believe that some people will accept mediocrity! Exit at first round of WC is unacceptable to Nigeria!!!! WE can and should be doing better than that. Without a coach we can exit at the WC 1st round anyway

And who is arguing with you that exiting the WC in the first round is “acceptable”?
King of Strawland!

If it was not acceptable then why is Rohr still on the job because that was his scorecard! He led us to a 1st round exit at the WC and was kept on the job! Anyone that pointed out this anomaly is named an 'hater'!

I have asked many times what will be considered an unacceptable performance by Rohr and you've constantly refused to provide an answer.

[Damunk]

Sometimes I wonder if self-proclaimed 'football experts' think coaching success is like
linear arithmetic. Guardiola, with all the expensive talents accorded him at ManCity is yet to
win for his club the coveted UEFA Champions League trophy. Due to the competitive nature of
football coupled with the unrealistic expectations of fans, there are many coaches who at the
end of this season, will be described as 'useless, and need to be fired'.

I'm beginning to think that these unrealistic fans were wishing there is no competition,
so their respective teams will always have a a wining season, and a trophy to brag about.

It is not unrealistic for us to expect Nigeria to qualify for 2nd round of a world cup! We should have sacked ROHR immediately after that.

If we qualify for the WC and could not qualify for the 2nd round Rohr should just leave from the WC venue!

I am beginning to believe that some people will accept mediocrity! Exit at first round of WC is unacceptable to Nigeria!!!! WE can and should be doing better than that. Without a coach we can exit at the WC 1st round anyway

So Nigeria is better than Croatia and Argentina ?

You guys and your silly mantras.

Every WC group is not the same.

Failing to qualify from the group we had in 2010 South Africa (Greece, Argentina, South Korea) was a disgrace and is certainly a sackable offense.

Failing to beat the team that finished #2 in that tournament and Argentina is another thing entirely.

No sane federation will fire a coach of a second rate football nation for failing to beat ARgentina or Croatia.

I know for a fact you will not be calling for your favourite coach to be sacked for that kind of "failure"

If Rohr is able to match the record of Keshi who you continue to insult Rohr would be considered a success! And Amodu is my favourite coach right from his Niger Tornadoes to BCC days I support WINNERS.

And yes, Keshi and Amodu achieved so much even with TRAITORS like you who went to the extent of wishing DEATH on someone whose crime was just agreeing to coach the SE

Matches are played to determine who is BETTER! If we know that we stand no chance then we should not bother wasting money going for the tournament. I don't care who is in our group, absolute minimum is qualifying for the 2nd round of the WC!

Chief, you are diverting the argument.
Calling names like “traitor” etc are distractions and beside the point.
Amodu was sacked for the SAME reasons you are pushing for Rohr be sacked.
You don’t see the irony do you?
Look well.

[vancity eagle]

Matches are played to determine who is BETTER! If we know that we stand no chance then we should not bother wasting money going for the tournament. I don't care who is in our group, absolute minimum is qualifying for the 2nd round of the WC!

Who said anything about "standing no chance"

We were minutes away from eliminating Argentina. I think we "stand a chance" against anyone.

But you dont fire a coach for failing to beat a team that is better than you.

Clearly you are not thinking rationally, you are reacting with emotion and pride.

People like you should be far away from any decision making.

[wanaj0]

Sometimes I wonder if self-proclaimed 'football experts' think coaching success is like
linear arithmetic. Guardiola, with all the expensive talents accorded him at ManCity is yet to
win for his club the coveted UEFA Champions League trophy. Due to the competitive nature of
football coupled with the unrealistic expectations of fans, there are many coaches who at the
end of this season, will be described as 'useless, and need to be fired'.

I'm beginning to think that these unrealistic fans were wishing there is no competition,
so their respective teams will always have a a wining season, and a trophy to brag about.

It is not unrealistic for us to expect Nigeria to qualify for 2nd round of a world cup! We should have sacked ROHR immediately after that.

If we qualify for the WC and could not qualify for the 2nd round Rohr should just leave from the WC venue!

I am beginning to believe that some people will accept mediocrity! Exit at first round of WC is unacceptable to Nigeria!!!! WE can and should be doing better than that. Without a coach we can exit at the WC 1st round anyway

So Nigeria is better than Croatia and Argentina ?

You guys and your silly mantras.

Every WC group is not the same.

Failing to qualify from the group we had in 2010 South Africa (Greece, Argentina, South Korea) was a disgrace and is certainly a sackable offense.

Failing to beat the team that finished #2 in that tournament and Argentina is another thing entirely.

No sane federation will fire a coach of a second rate football nation for failing to beat ARgentina or Croatia.

I know for a fact you will not be calling for your favourite coach to be sacked for that kind of "failure"

If Rohr is able to match the record of Keshi who you continue to insult Rohr would be considered a success! And Amodu is my favourite coach right from his Niger Tornadoes to BCC days I support WINNERS.

And yes, Keshi and Amodu achieved so much even with TRAITORS like you who went to the extent of wishing DEATH on someone whose crime was just agreeing to coach the SE

Matches are played to determine who is BETTER! If we know that we stand no chance then we should not bother wasting money going for the tournament. I don't care who is in our group, absolute minimum is qualifying for the 2nd round of the WC!

Chief, you are diverting the argument.
Calling names like “traitor” etc are distractions and beside the point.
Amodu was sacked for the SAME reasons you are pushing for Rohr be sacked.
You don’t see the irony do you?
Look well.

Not sure what is confusing to you.

Failure to qualify for the 2nd round of the WC should lead to automatic sack. Rohr did not qualify for the 2nd round of the WC.

Amodu was NOT allowed to coach the team at the WC after qualifying the team twice! Not sure how that is the SAME as Rohr who was allowed to coach at the WC and came up with a result that you have agreed is UNACCEPTABLE.

I could see how 'traitor' was a distraction to you but not the following that was used

1) Football 'experts'
2) Unrealistic fans

[wanaj0]

Matches are played to determine who is BETTER! If we know that we stand no chance then we should not bother wasting money going for the tournament. I don't care who is in our group, absolute minimum is qualifying for the 2nd round of the WC!

Who said anything about "standing no chance"

We were minutes away from eliminating Argentina. I think we "stand a chance" against anyone.

But you dont fire a coach for failing to beat a team that is better than you.

Clearly you are not thinking rationally, you are reacting with emotion and pride.

People like you should be far away from any decision making.

You can do many hypothesis but the REALITY is that we did not qualify for the 2nd round. I deal with FACTS

Rich for someone like you to talk about rationality, emotion and pride. Just look in the mirror and that describes who you are! Your history on this board says it all.

[Damunk]

Sometimes I wonder if self-proclaimed 'football experts' think coaching success is like
linear arithmetic. Guardiola, with all the expensive talents accorded him at ManCity is yet to
win for his club the coveted UEFA Champions League trophy. Due to the competitive nature of
football coupled with the unrealistic expectations of fans, there are many coaches who at the
end of this season, will be described as 'useless, and need to be fired'.

I'm beginning to think that these unrealistic fans were wishing there is no competition,
so their respective teams will always have a a wining season, and a trophy to brag about.

It is not unrealistic for us to expect Nigeria to qualify for 2nd round of a world cup! We should have sacked ROHR immediately after that.

If we qualify for the WC and could not qualify for the 2nd round Rohr should just leave from the WC venue!

I am beginning to believe that some people will accept mediocrity! Exit at first round of WC is unacceptable to Nigeria!!!! WE can and should be doing better than that. Without a coach we can exit at the WC 1st round anyway

And who is arguing with you that exiting the WC in the first round is “acceptable”?
King of Strawland!

If it was not acceptable then why is Rohr still on the job because that was his scorecard! He led us to a 1st round exit at the WC and was kept on the job! Anyone that pointed out this anomaly is named an 'hater'!

Uhm…what was his scorecard again?

Meanwhile, just because something is “not acceptable” does not mean you have to part ways.
I thought you would be teaching things like this in senior management.
No?
Every failure to reach a given target is an unconditional sackable offence in your book?

I have asked many times what will be considered an unacceptable performance by Rohr and you've constantly refused to provide an answer.

And you have been asked several times by numerous people what your suggestions for an emergency succession plan might be and you have been waffling like somebody wey dey chop hot akara.

I think you are also making up the WC target Rohr was given. Being an honest man, I don’t think you are lying, just mistaken.
But I am willing to be proved wrong on that.
If you could kindly confirm the stipulated goal as you claim, that would be nice.

Tenx in advance, bro!

[wanaj0]

Sometimes I wonder if self-proclaimed 'football experts' think coaching success is like
linear arithmetic. Guardiola, with all the expensive talents accorded him at ManCity is yet to
win for his club the coveted UEFA Champions League trophy. Due to the competitive nature of
football coupled with the unrealistic expectations of fans, there are many coaches who at the
end of this season, will be described as 'useless, and need to be fired'.

I'm beginning to think that these unrealistic fans were wishing there is no competition,
so their respective teams will always have a a wining season, and a trophy to brag about.

It is not unrealistic for us to expect Nigeria to qualify for 2nd round of a world cup! We should have sacked ROHR immediately after that.

If we qualify for the WC and could not qualify for the 2nd round Rohr should just leave from the WC venue!

I am beginning to believe that some people will accept mediocrity! Exit at first round of WC is unacceptable to Nigeria!!!! WE can and should be doing better than that. Without a coach we can exit at the WC 1st round anyway

And who is arguing with you that exiting the WC in the first round is “acceptable”?
King of Strawland!

If it was not acceptable then why is Rohr still on the job because that was his scorecard! He led us to a 1st round exit at the WC and was kept on the job! Anyone that pointed out this anomaly is named an 'hater'!

Uhm…what was his scorecard again?

Meanwhile, just because something is “not acceptable” does not mean you have to part ways.
I thought you would be teaching things like this in senior management.
No?
Every failure to reach a given target is an unconditional sackable offence in your book?

I have asked many times what will be considered an unacceptable performance by Rohr and you've constantly refused to provide an answer.

And you have been asked several times by numerous people what your suggestions for an emergency succession plan might be and you have been waffling like somebody wey dey chop hot akara.

I think you are also making up the WC target Rohr was given, but I am willing to be proved wrong on that.
If you could kindly confirm the stipulated goal, that would be nice.

Tenx in advance, bro!

Guess the highlighted is not a distraction to the debate

Anyone that did not meet the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM expectation will be sacked. Yet that is it in my books. I don't condone FAILURE. Nigeria not qualifying for the second round of the WC is BIG FAILURE. There is always the MINIMUM to be met to retain your job. I don't know about your type of job.

I don't know what target Rohr was given, I am telling you as a Nigerian that to me qualification for the 2nd round is the minimum expected of ANY SE coach. You can tell me what your expectation is. That's the question I have asked you many times.

Why should there be an emergency succession plan? There was no emergency.

If Rohr fails again to qualify for the 2nd round, I don't expect Eguavoen (who won a silver at the ANC) to do worse.

I will even take a risk with Amuneke whose record is comparable to Rohrs record before his appointment. You can check Rohr's performance with Niger and compare that with Amuneke's own with Tanzania.

[vancity eagle]

you are dealing with FACTS ?

The FACTS are that both Argentina and Croatia are BETTER than Nigeria.

The FACTS are that Rohr beat who he was expected to beat at the WC.

The FACTS are that your beloved Keshi DID NOT BEAT anybody who was better than Nigeria, exact same as Rohr. In fact Keshi COULD NOT BEAT an inferior Iran side.

The FACTS are that all groups are not equal.

The FACTS are that the strength of your group is by far the most important factor in whether you will progress to the 2nd round or not.

The FACTS are that Keshi was helped by the ref even in his only victory at the 2014 WC

The FACTS are that every situation is not the same and cannot be compared as simply as you are trying to do, all because you hate one coach and love another. If the roles were reversed you will be making the exact same arguments I am making, because nothing you are doing is objective. You are just emotionally invested in hating Rohr. So continue with your bitterness while we enjoy SE making easy work of qualifying where the previous coaches struggled against minnows.

[Damunk]

Sometimes I wonder if self-proclaimed 'football experts' think coaching success is like
linear arithmetic. Guardiola, with all the expensive talents accorded him at ManCity is yet to
win for his club the coveted UEFA Champions League trophy. Due to the competitive nature of
football coupled with the unrealistic expectations of fans, there are many coaches who at the
end of this season, will be described as 'useless, and need to be fired'.

I'm beginning to think that these unrealistic fans were wishing there is no competition,
so their respective teams will always have a a wining season, and a trophy to brag about.

It is not unrealistic for us to expect Nigeria to qualify for 2nd round of a world cup! We should have sacked ROHR immediately after that.

If we qualify for the WC and could not qualify for the 2nd round Rohr should just leave from the WC venue!

I am beginning to believe that some people will accept mediocrity! Exit at first round of WC is unacceptable to Nigeria!!!! WE can and should be doing better than that. Without a coach we can exit at the WC 1st round anyway

And who is arguing with you that exiting the WC in the first round is “acceptable”?
King of Strawland!

If it was not acceptable then why is Rohr still on the job because that was his scorecard! He led us to a 1st round exit at the WC and was kept on the job! Anyone that pointed out this anomaly is named an 'hater'!

Uhm…what was his scorecard again?

Meanwhile, just because something is “not acceptable” does not mean you have to part ways.
I thought you would be teaching things like this in senior management.
No?
Every failure to reach a given target is an unconditional sackable offence in your book?

I have asked many times what will be considered an unacceptable performance by Rohr and you've constantly refused to provide an answer.

And you have been asked several times by numerous people what your suggestions for an emergency succession plan might be and you have been waffling like somebody wey dey chop hot akara.

I think you are also making up the WC target Rohr was given, but I am willing to be proved wrong on that.
If you could kindly confirm the stipulated goal, that would be nice.

Tenx in advance, bro!

Guess the highlighted is not a distraction to the debate

Anyone that did not meet the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM expectation will be sacked. Yet that is it in my books. I don't condone FAILURE. Nigeria not qualifying for the second round of the WC is BIG FAILURE. There is always the MINIMUM to be met to retain your job. I don't know about your type of job.

I don't know what target Rohr was given, I am telling you as a Nigerian that to me qualification for the 2nd round is the minimum expected of ANY SE coach. You can tell me what your expectation is. That's the question I have asked you many times.

Why should there be an emergency succession plan? There was no emergency.

If Rohr fails again to qualify for the 2nd round, I don't expect Eguavoen (who won a silver at the ANC) to do worse.

I will even take a risk with Amuneke whose record is comparable to Rohrs record before his appointment. You can check Rohr's performance with Niger and compare that with Amuneke's own with Tanzania.

So you were arguing blindly.
Hmmmm. What’s new in all this?

He was not given the target you have believed and been arguing about for god knows how many years now.
Next time, check your facts - like you probably just did. But alas! Too late. You don already collect red card.

‘Nuff said.

[wanaj0]

Sometimes I wonder if self-proclaimed 'football experts' think coaching success is like
linear arithmetic. Guardiola, with all the expensive talents accorded him at ManCity is yet to
win for his club the coveted UEFA Champions League trophy. Due to the competitive nature of
football coupled with the unrealistic expectations of fans, there are many coaches who at the
end of this season, will be described as 'useless, and need to be fired'.

I'm beginning to think that these unrealistic fans were wishing there is no competition,
so their respective teams will always have a a wining season, and a trophy to brag about.

It is not unrealistic for us to expect Nigeria to qualify for 2nd round of a world cup! We should have sacked ROHR immediately after that.

If we qualify for the WC and could not qualify for the 2nd round Rohr should just leave from the WC venue!

I am beginning to believe that some people will accept mediocrity! Exit at first round of WC is unacceptable to Nigeria!!!! WE can and should be doing better than that. Without a coach we can exit at the WC 1st round anyway

And who is arguing with you that exiting the WC in the first round is “acceptable”?
King of Strawland!

If it was not acceptable then why is Rohr still on the job because that was his scorecard! He led us to a 1st round exit at the WC and was kept on the job! Anyone that pointed out this anomaly is named an 'hater'!

Uhm…what was his scorecard again?

Meanwhile, just because something is “not acceptable” does not mean you have to part ways.
I thought you would be teaching things like this in senior management.
No?
Every failure to reach a given target is an unconditional sackable offence in your book?

I have asked many times what will be considered an unacceptable performance by Rohr and you've constantly refused to provide an answer.

And you have been asked several times by numerous people what your suggestions for an emergency succession plan might be and you have been waffling like somebody wey dey chop hot akara.

I think you are also making up the WC target Rohr was given, but I am willing to be proved wrong on that.
If you could kindly confirm the stipulated goal, that would be nice.

Tenx in advance, bro!

Guess the highlighted is not a distraction to the debate

Anyone that did not meet the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM expectation will be sacked. Yet that is it in my books. I don't condone FAILURE. Nigeria not qualifying for the second round of the WC is BIG FAILURE. There is always the MINIMUM to be met to retain your job. I don't know about your type of job.

I don't know what target Rohr was given, I am telling you as a Nigerian that to me qualification for the 2nd round is the minimum expected of ANY SE coach. You can tell me what your expectation is. That's the question I have asked you many times.

Why should there be an emergency succession plan? There was no emergency.

If Rohr fails again to qualify for the 2nd round, I don't expect Eguavoen (who won a silver at the ANC) to do worse.

I will even take a risk with Amuneke whose record is comparable to Rohrs record before his appointment. You can check Rohr's performance with Niger and compare that with Amuneke's own with Tanzania.

So you were arguing blindly.
Hmmmm. What’s new in all this?

He was not given the target you have believed and been arguing about for god knows how many years now.
Next time, check your facts.
‘Nuff said.

Don't be mischievous . I never said I knew details of Rohr's contract. I have always stated my expectation for a SE coach and I have asked you what your own expectation is. No need imputing what I never said.

My expectation is that a coach that could not qualify SE for the 2nd round of the WC is not FIT to coach the SE so should be let go.

Go ahead and state your own expectation.