The Nigerian Debates and Moroccan Debates on Foreign-Borns Are Identical

[Damunk]

Morocco's foreign-born contingent deliver in Qatar

https://www.thedailystar.net/sports/spo ... ar-3193336

Reuters, Doha
Sun Dec 11, 2022 04:45 PM Last update on: Sun Dec 11, 2022 06:11 PM

Photos: AFP/Reuters
Morocco's unexpected march to the World Cup semi-finals can be attributed partly to a policy of deliberately seeking out talent in the Diaspora to strengthen the national team and give them a better chance of success.

Fourteen of Morocco's 26-man squad were born outside the country, more than any other team at the tournament in Qatar, providing an eclectic mix of players from growing migrant communities across Europe who have helped them break new ground.

For all latest news, follow The Daily Star's Google News channel.
The shock 1-0 quarter-final win over Portugal on Saturday made Morocco the first African and Arab nation to reach the last four of a World Cup.

Canadian-born goalkeeper Younes Bounou has conceded only one goal, Madrid-born Achraf Hakimi has been outstanding on the right flank, Dutch-born Sofyan Amrabat a powerful midfield enforcer and French-born Sofiane Boufal a menace on the left.

Finding eligible players in countries like Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Spain is now a structured exercise, as opposed to the haphazard system when the first foreign-born Moroccans competed for the national team at the 1998 World Cup in France.

Moroccans are one of the largest migrant populations in Europe, estimated at some five million, and have close ties with the country. A study by the Council of the Moroccan Community Abroad, a government agency, concluded that 61% of Moroccans in Europe between the ages of 18 and 35 visit the kingdom every year.

The Royal Moroccan Football Federation has talent scouts dotted around Europe and move quickly when there is a potential clash of loyalties. Dutch-born Hakim Ziyech had talks with both the Moroccans and Netherlands coach Ronald Koeman about which country he would commit his international future to before deciding on Morocco.

Amrabat, who like Ziyech represented the Netherlands at junior level, switched allegiance for family reasons.

"My parents are Moroccan and my grandparents are Moroccan. Every time I go there I can't describe the feeling inside me in words, it's my home. The Netherlands is also my home, but Morocco is special," he said.

HONEST DISCUSSION

"The players are approached very early in order to attract them to the Moroccan side. We never force things, it's an honest discussion with the player and his family," explains Noureddine Moukrim, a youth coach in Belgium who scouted for Morocco for nine years.

But there are doubters about the policy, who feel this assiduous courting of overseas-born players retards opportunity for home-born footballers.

"Before this World Cup we had a lot of problems about the guys born in Europe and guys not born in Morocco and a lot of journalists said, 'Why don't we play with guys born in Morocco?'," said coach Walid Regragui, himself a former foreign-born international.

"Today we have shown that every Moroccan is Moroccan. When he comes to the national team he wants to die, he wants to fight. As the coach, I was born in France, but nobody can have my heart for my country."

Nigeria is still arguing that foreign borns can’t hack it.
Results don’t lie.

You are exaggerating the argument. Most fans do not mind foreign based players (see the wailing when Saka announced for England). However, Pinnick's strategy of focusing on foreign players while neglecting local players was wrong. We take the grassroots at home and also court qualified foreign born players.

You seem to have this thing for selecting the more convenient parts of a debate.
You actually mean you’ve missed the arguments against foreign born players?
What is the exaggeration in pointing that out?
You can’t pick and choose just the best parts and conveniently pretend you don’t see and hear the more stupid arguments being pushed for the same cause.

I asked, probably a year ago for some kind of evidence to support this popular, recycled argument that local players were being deliberately neglected. I might not be able to find it. Same thing being recycled about neglected youth football. Nobody actually bothers to check what’s really going on.
Just for my own clearer understanding.
Guess what happened?

[TonyTheTigerKiller]

Morocco's foreign-born contingent deliver in Qatar

https://www.thedailystar.net/sports/spo ... ar-3193336

Reuters, Doha
Sun Dec 11, 2022 04:45 PM Last update on: Sun Dec 11, 2022 06:11 PM

Photos: AFP/Reuters
Morocco's unexpected march to the World Cup semi-finals can be attributed partly to a policy of deliberately seeking out talent in the Diaspora to strengthen the national team and give them a better chance of success.

Fourteen of Morocco's 26-man squad were born outside the country, more than any other team at the tournament in Qatar, providing an eclectic mix of players from growing migrant communities across Europe who have helped them break new ground.

For all latest news, follow The Daily Star's Google News channel.
The shock 1-0 quarter-final win over Portugal on Saturday made Morocco the first African and Arab nation to reach the last four of a World Cup.

Canadian-born goalkeeper Younes Bounou has conceded only one goal, Madrid-born Achraf Hakimi has been outstanding on the right flank, Dutch-born Sofyan Amrabat a powerful midfield enforcer and French-born Sofiane Boufal a menace on the left.

Finding eligible players in countries like Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Spain is now a structured exercise, as opposed to the haphazard system when the first foreign-born Moroccans competed for the national team at the 1998 World Cup in France.

Moroccans are one of the largest migrant populations in Europe, estimated at some five million, and have close ties with the country. A study by the Council of the Moroccan Community Abroad, a government agency, concluded that 61% of Moroccans in Europe between the ages of 18 and 35 visit the kingdom every year.

The Royal Moroccan Football Federation has talent scouts dotted around Europe and move quickly when there is a potential clash of loyalties. Dutch-born Hakim Ziyech had talks with both the Moroccans and Netherlands coach Ronald Koeman about which country he would commit his international future to before deciding on Morocco.

Amrabat, who like Ziyech represented the Netherlands at junior level, switched allegiance for family reasons.

"My parents are Moroccan and my grandparents are Moroccan. Every time I go there I can't describe the feeling inside me in words, it's my home. The Netherlands is also my home, but Morocco is special," he said.

HONEST DISCUSSION

"The players are approached very early in order to attract them to the Moroccan side. We never force things, it's an honest discussion with the player and his family," explains Noureddine Moukrim, a youth coach in Belgium who scouted for Morocco for nine years.

But there are doubters about the policy, who feel this assiduous courting of overseas-born players retards opportunity for home-born footballers.

"Before this World Cup we had a lot of problems about the guys born in Europe and guys not born in Morocco and a lot of journalists said, 'Why don't we play with guys born in Morocco?'," said coach Walid Regragui, himself a former foreign-born international.

"Today we have shown that every Moroccan is Moroccan. When he comes to the national team he wants to die, he wants to fight. As the coach, I was born in France, but nobody can have my heart for my country."

Nigeria is still arguing that foreign borns can’t hack it.
Results don’t lie.

Yours is a rather juvenile summation. The majority of the Moroccan squad are not foreign born. Are you positing that they had nothing to do with Morocco’s success thus far? You are merely towing the line of foreign observers and commentators whose goal is to deny the African success at this World Cup.

By the way, when Nigeria beat Bulgaria in 1994 and Spain in 1998, how many foreign born players were in the Nigerian squad


Cheers.

Guy, 1994 was 28 years ago.
I suspect the game has changed a little since then!

The concept that the game changed and left only Africa behind is more than a little self-denigrating. Besides, Morocco says you’re wrong… and oh, there were also 1998 and 2014 when Nigeria made the 2nd round so, spare me the delirious glee


Cheers.

[404]

With due respect Morocco is better organised than Nigeria. Did you hear of coaches being owed for one year or of players that refused to play a match because they are being owed allowances for 3 years? Have you seen their national team shoot themselves in the foot by playing home games on a terrible pitch?...Who do you think would adapt better and have more motivation to play for such a chaotic country?An Osimhen that grew up in the slums of Lagos and is used to such a system or a Musiala( by the way, his dad is Nigerian) that has lived his entire life in an organised society?... There are many factors to consider bedore making such a comparism.

Gochino you are the only person who gets it! Nigerians refuses to address the fundamental problems like organization, corruption, and ineptitude Nigeria wants to be a great footballing nation without putting in place the infrastructure and making the necessary financial and human investments—truly delusional

[404]

With due respect Morocco is better organised than Nigeria. Did you hear of coaches being owed for one year or of players that refused to play a match because they are being owed allowances for 3 years? Have you seen their national team shoot themselves in the foot by playing home games on a terrible pitch?...Who do you think would adapt better and have more motivation to play for such a chaotic country?An Osimhen that grew up in the slums of Lagos and is used to such a system or a Musiala( by the way, his dad is Nigerian) that has lived his entire life in an organised society?... There are many factors to consider bedore making such a comparism.

Gochino you are the only person who gets it! Nigerians refuses to address the fundamental problems like organization, corruption, and ineptitude Nigeria wants to be a great footballing nation without putting in place the infrastructure and making the necessary financial and human investments—truly delusional

[aruako1]

Morocco's foreign-born contingent deliver in Qatar

https://www.thedailystar.net/sports/spo ... ar-3193336

Reuters, Doha
Sun Dec 11, 2022 04:45 PM Last update on: Sun Dec 11, 2022 06:11 PM

Photos: AFP/Reuters
Morocco's unexpected march to the World Cup semi-finals can be attributed partly to a policy of deliberately seeking out talent in the Diaspora to strengthen the national team and give them a better chance of success.

Fourteen of Morocco's 26-man squad were born outside the country, more than any other team at the tournament in Qatar, providing an eclectic mix of players from growing migrant communities across Europe who have helped them break new ground.

For all latest news, follow The Daily Star's Google News channel.
The shock 1-0 quarter-final win over Portugal on Saturday made Morocco the first African and Arab nation to reach the last four of a World Cup.

Canadian-born goalkeeper Younes Bounou has conceded only one goal, Madrid-born Achraf Hakimi has been outstanding on the right flank, Dutch-born Sofyan Amrabat a powerful midfield enforcer and French-born Sofiane Boufal a menace on the left.

Finding eligible players in countries like Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Spain is now a structured exercise, as opposed to the haphazard system when the first foreign-born Moroccans competed for the national team at the 1998 World Cup in France.

Moroccans are one of the largest migrant populations in Europe, estimated at some five million, and have close ties with the country. A study by the Council of the Moroccan Community Abroad, a government agency, concluded that 61% of Moroccans in Europe between the ages of 18 and 35 visit the kingdom every year.

The Royal Moroccan Football Federation has talent scouts dotted around Europe and move quickly when there is a potential clash of loyalties. Dutch-born Hakim Ziyech had talks with both the Moroccans and Netherlands coach Ronald Koeman about which country he would commit his international future to before deciding on Morocco.

Amrabat, who like Ziyech represented the Netherlands at junior level, switched allegiance for family reasons.

"My parents are Moroccan and my grandparents are Moroccan. Every time I go there I can't describe the feeling inside me in words, it's my home. The Netherlands is also my home, but Morocco is special," he said.

HONEST DISCUSSION

"The players are approached very early in order to attract them to the Moroccan side. We never force things, it's an honest discussion with the player and his family," explains Noureddine Moukrim, a youth coach in Belgium who scouted for Morocco for nine years.

But there are doubters about the policy, who feel this assiduous courting of overseas-born players retards opportunity for home-born footballers.

"Before this World Cup we had a lot of problems about the guys born in Europe and guys not born in Morocco and a lot of journalists said, 'Why don't we play with guys born in Morocco?'," said coach Walid Regragui, himself a former foreign-born international.

"Today we have shown that every Moroccan is Moroccan. When he comes to the national team he wants to die, he wants to fight. As the coach, I was born in France, but nobody can have my heart for my country."

Nigeria is still arguing that foreign borns can’t hack it.
Results don’t lie.

You are exaggerating the argument. Most fans do not mind foreign based players (see the wailing when Saka announced for England). However, Pinnick's strategy of focusing on foreign players while neglecting local players was wrong. We take the grassroots at home and also court qualified foreign born players.

You seem to have this thing for selecting the more convenient parts of a debate.
You actually mean you’ve missed the arguments against foreign born players?
What is the exaggeration in pointing that out?
You can’t pick and choose just the best parts and conveniently pretend you don’t see and hear the more stupid arguments being pushed for the same cause.

I asked, probably a year ago for some kind of evidence to support this popular, recycled argument that local players were being deliberately neglected. I might not be able to find it. Same thing being recycled about neglected youth football. Nobody actually bothers to check what’s really going on.
Just for my own clearer understanding.
Guess what happened?

Damunk did you miss the word, "most"? It is the first word in the second sentence of my post. Tell me that my statement, "Most fans do not mind foreign players..." is wrong. As for the neglect of youth football, what happened to the U-15 program that produced the likes of Kelechi Iheanacho?

[Lolly]

With due respect Morocco is better organised than Nigeria. Did you hear of coaches being owed for one year or of players that refused to play a match because they are being owed allowances for 3 years? Have you seen their national team shoot themselves in the foot by playing home games on a terrible pitch?...Who do you think would adapt better and have more motivation to play for such a chaotic country?An Osimhen that grew up in the slums of Lagos and is used to such a system or a Musiala( by the way, his dad is Nigerian) that has lived his entire life in an organised society?... There are many factors to consider bedore making such a comparism.

Gochino you are the only person who gets it! Nigerians refuses to address the fundamental problems like organization, corruption, and ineptitude Nigeria wants to be a great footballing nation without putting in place the infrastructure and making the necessary financial and human investments—truly delusional

The conclusion of the matter is that we should just do all we can to get the BEST players we can get no matter where they are born and work with what you have including the chaos, the lack of disciple, the ineffective FA, corruption etc. Just get the best players from the pot. Place of birth is irrelevant, which is what the Moroccans have shown us.

Meanwhile, those same problems existed when we were winning AFCON and making the second round of the World Cup. We definitely know we won’t be winning it under such circumstances, but let’s just get our best players to wear the jersey and give their best.

[404]

Lolly I hear you….We have won AFCON 3 times 1980, 1994, and 2013 on each occasion that Nigeria won there was some semblance of organization, the issues that bedevil Nigerian football on those occasions seem to take a back seat for awhile then long spells of drought because there is no short, medium, or long term planning and investment. Has NFF ever thought of a blueprint for developing football in Nigeria that is to be implemented by those that run the federation regardless of who is at the helm? Is the Nigerian footballing public asking for too much when it asks for basic organizational skills, accountability, and a merit based system? If the goal is be a great footballing nation how do you get around not implementing the fundamentals?

[Damunk]

Lolly I hear you….We have won AFCON 3 times 1980, 1994, and 2013 on each occasion that Nigeria won there was some semblance of organization, the issues that bedevil Nigerian football on those occasions seem to take a back seat for awhile then long spells of drought because there is no short, medium, or long term planning and investment. Has NFF ever thought of a blueprint for developing football in Nigeria that is to be implemented by those that run the federation regardless of who is at the helm? Is the Nigerian footballing public asking for too much when it asks for basic organizational skills, accountability, and a merit based system? If the goal is be a great footballing nation how do you get around not implementing the fundamentals?

Nigerians are not asking too much but there seems to be a fundamental problem when it comes to organisation.
Nigeria is not short of brilliant minds but the question is, what happens when they are asked to run or be part of an institution?.
Maybe things actually are worse than before but I vaguely recall times going back to childhood when my dad and my uncles were constantly criticising the NFA and our failure to qualify for big tournaments.
So I’m not sure it was eldorado even back then.

My current travails with a big private institution in Nigeria just reminds me yet again that the dreaded ‘N factor’ compromises every single thing you do, even when you have the best intentions. Your good intentions, your integrity and your ability is actually a problem for too many people you have to work with or through.

[TonyTheTigerKiller]

Lolly I hear you….We have won AFCON 3 times 1980, 1994, and 2013 on each occasion that Nigeria won there was some semblance of organization, the issues that bedevil Nigerian football on those occasions seem to take a back seat for awhile then long spells of drought because there is no short, medium, or long term planning and investment. Has NFF ever thought of a blueprint for developing football in Nigeria that is to be implemented by those that run the federation regardless of who is at the helm? Is the Nigerian footballing public asking for too much when it asks for basic organizational skills, accountability, and a merit based system? If the goal is be a great footballing nation how do you get around not implementing the fundamentals?

Nigerians are not asking too much but there seems to be a fundamental problem when it comes to organisation.
Nigeria is not short of brilliant minds but the question is, what happens when they are asked to run or be part of an institution?.
Maybe things actually are worse than before but I vaguely recall times going back to childhood when my dad and my uncles were constantly criticising the NFA and our failure to qualify for big tournaments.
So I’m not sure it was eldorado even back then.

My current travails with a big private institution in Nigeria just reminds me yet again that the dreaded ‘N factor’ compromises every single thing you do, even when you have the best intentions. Your good intentions, your integrity and your ability is actually a problem for too many people you have to work with or through.

Our fundamental problem is a rampant disdain for competence driven by individual greed and a wanton desire to maintain the status quo. There are people here who still swear by Pinnick and Rohr despite all the evidence of their incompetence. For the very same reason, Bola Tinubu could become Nigeria’s next president. Structures and organizations are only as good as the people who maintain or run them


Cheers.

[fabio]

Lolly I hear you….We have won AFCON 3 times 1980, 1994, and 2013 on each occasion that Nigeria won there was some semblance of organization, the issues that bedevil Nigerian football on those occasions seem to take a back seat for awhile then long spells of drought because there is no short, medium, or long term planning and investment. Has NFF ever thought of a blueprint for developing football in Nigeria that is to be implemented by those that run the federation regardless of who is at the helm? Is the Nigerian footballing public asking for too much when it asks for basic organizational skills, accountability, and a merit based system? If the goal is be a great footballing nation how do you get around not implementing the fundamentals?

Nigerians are not asking too much but there seems to be a fundamental problem when it comes to organisation.
Nigeria is not short of brilliant minds but the question is, what happens when they are asked to run or be part of an institution?.
Maybe things actually are worse than before but I vaguely recall times going back to childhood when my dad and my uncles were constantly criticising the NFA and our failure to qualify for big tournaments.
So I’m not sure it was eldorado even back then.

My current travails with a big private institution in Nigeria just reminds me yet again that the dreaded ‘N factor’ compromises every single thing you do, even when you have the best intentions. Your good intentions, your integrity and your ability is actually a problem for too many people you have to work with or through.

Damunk, am sorry, your being disingenuous to 404 point on development football.

Maigari administration started a developmental programme. The first thing, Pinnick when he became NFF chairman, was to scrap programme. More currently, Nigeria didn't send a secondary school to a CAF competition because SE is the priority.

Olympics football, which had been an area to expose players to a much higher level of international competition and experience, we didn't qualify under Pinnick because it was not priority.

You know Pinnick dream was to have SE comprised of players who had their footballing experience abroad (We know it means player born abroad or those who move abroad at a very young age).

[aruako1]

Lolly I hear you….We have won AFCON 3 times 1980, 1994, and 2013 on each occasion that Nigeria won there was some semblance of organization, the issues that bedevil Nigerian football on those occasions seem to take a back seat for awhile then long spells of drought because there is no short, medium, or long term planning and investment. Has NFF ever thought of a blueprint for developing football in Nigeria that is to be implemented by those that run the federation regardless of who is at the helm? Is the Nigerian footballing public asking for too much when it asks for basic organizational skills, accountability, and a merit based system? If the goal is be a great footballing nation how do you get around not implementing the fundamentals?

Nigerians are not asking too much but there seems to be a fundamental problem when it comes to organisation.
Nigeria is not short of brilliant minds but the question is, what happens when they are asked to run or be part of an institution?.
Maybe things actually are worse than before but I vaguely recall times going back to childhood when my dad and my uncles were constantly criticising the NFA and our failure to qualify for big tournaments.
So I’m not sure it was eldorado even back then.

My current travails with a big private institution in Nigeria just reminds me yet again that the dreaded ‘N factor’ compromises every single thing you do, even when you have the best intentions. Your good intentions, your integrity and your ability is actually a problem for too many people you have to work with or through.

Damunk, am sorry, your being disingenuous to 404 point on development football.

Maigari administration started a developmental programme. The first thing, Pinnick when he became NFF chairman, was to scrap programme. More currently, Nigeria didn't send a secondary school to a CAF competition because SE is the priority.

Olympics football, which had been an area to expose players to a much higher level of international competition and experience, we didn't qualify under Pinnick because it was not priority.

You know Pinnick dream was to have SE comprised of players who had their footballing experience abroad (We know it means player born abroad or those who move abroad at a very young age).

And when you complain about the boldened part it means that you hate foreign born players. Nothing would give me more joy than for my British born son to play for the Super Eagles. However, even if it happened, I would not want grassroots football development to be neglected in Nigeria.

[Damunk]

Damunk, am sorry, your being disingenuous to 404 point on development football.

Maigari administration started a developmental programme. The first thing, Pinnick when he became NFF chairman, was to scrap programme. More currently, Nigeria didn't send a secondary school to a CAF competition because SE is the priority.

Olympics football, which had been an area to expose players to a much higher level of international competition and experience, we didn't qualify under Pinnick because it was not priority.

You know Pinnick dream was to have SE comprised of players who had their footballing experience abroad (We know it means player born abroad or those who move abroad at a very young age).

No disrespect to 404. I have a slight difference of opinion on what we all see. Thats nt being disingenuous..

I have no particular love or beef for Pinnick, which is what y'all love to say - just like aruako believes that taking a certain standpoint means you 'hate' FB players.
That's how CE rolls, but I am not part of all that ish.

But it would be nice if you could point us to evidence of the three key points you accuse Pinnick of in your response above. Imagine you are a witness in a panel's enquiry. Do you have any concrete evidence at all?
Is it the truth, the whole truth and nothing but?
I tend to skip past anecdotal stories. I'm not in the habit of simply echoing what everyone else is saying or adopting their conclusions from what they are seeing, which could well be a mirage.

I'm just a very curious person.

[Damunk]

Lolly I hear you….We have won AFCON 3 times 1980, 1994, and 2013 on each occasion that Nigeria won there was some semblance of organization, the issues that bedevil Nigerian football on those occasions seem to take a back seat for awhile then long spells of drought because there is no short, medium, or long term planning and investment. Has NFF ever thought of a blueprint for developing football in Nigeria that is to be implemented by those that run the federation regardless of who is at the helm? Is the Nigerian footballing public asking for too much when it asks for basic organizational skills, accountability, and a merit based system? If the goal is be a great footballing nation how do you get around not implementing the fundamentals?

Nigerians are not asking too much but there seems to be a fundamental problem when it comes to organisation.
Nigeria is not short of brilliant minds but the question is, what happens when they are asked to run or be part of an institution?.
Maybe things actually are worse than before but I vaguely recall times going back to childhood when my dad and my uncles were constantly criticising the NFA and our failure to qualify for big tournaments.
So I’m not sure it was eldorado even back then.

My current travails with a big private institution in Nigeria just reminds me yet again that the dreaded ‘N factor’ compromises every single thing you do, even when you have the best intentions. Your good intentions, your integrity and your ability is actually a problem for too many people you have to work with or through.

Damunk, am sorry, your being disingenuous to 404 point on development football.

Maigari administration started a developmental programme. The first thing, Pinnick when he became NFF chairman, was to scrap programme. More currently, Nigeria didn't send a secondary school to a CAF competition because SE is the priority.

Olympics football, which had been an area to expose players to a much higher level of international competition and experience, we didn't qualify under Pinnick because it was not priority.

You know Pinnick dream was to have SE comprised of players who had their footballing experience abroad (We know it means player born abroad or those who move abroad at a very young age).

And when you complain about the boldened part it means that you hate foreign born players. Nothing would give me more joy than for my British born son to play for the Super Eagles. However, even if it happened, I would not want grassroots football development to be neglected in Nigeria.

You are a very able lawyer.
If you were in the mood, you'd pick apart fabio's points above very easily.
But you have let it ride because you have no 'love' for Pinnick.

Okay, imagine I have hired you to destroy Mr Fabiyoyo's assertions.
I'm sure you'd see the flaws in his argument - particularly how he has presented opinion as if fact.

[aruako1]

Lolly I hear you….We have won AFCON 3 times 1980, 1994, and 2013 on each occasion that Nigeria won there was some semblance of organization, the issues that bedevil Nigerian football on those occasions seem to take a back seat for awhile then long spells of drought because there is no short, medium, or long term planning and investment. Has NFF ever thought of a blueprint for developing football in Nigeria that is to be implemented by those that run the federation regardless of who is at the helm? Is the Nigerian footballing public asking for too much when it asks for basic organizational skills, accountability, and a merit based system? If the goal is be a great footballing nation how do you get around not implementing the fundamentals?

Nigerians are not asking too much but there seems to be a fundamental problem when it comes to organisation.
Nigeria is not short of brilliant minds but the question is, what happens when they are asked to run or be part of an institution?.
Maybe things actually are worse than before but I vaguely recall times going back to childhood when my dad and my uncles were constantly criticising the NFA and our failure to qualify for big tournaments.
So I’m not sure it was eldorado even back then.

My current travails with a big private institution in Nigeria just reminds me yet again that the dreaded ‘N factor’ compromises every single thing you do, even when you have the best intentions. Your good intentions, your integrity and your ability is actually a problem for too many people you have to work with or through.

Damunk, am sorry, your being disingenuous to 404 point on development football.

Maigari administration started a developmental programme. The first thing, Pinnick when he became NFF chairman, was to scrap programme. More currently, Nigeria didn't send a secondary school to a CAF competition because SE is the priority.

Olympics football, which had been an area to expose players to a much higher level of international competition and experience, we didn't qualify under Pinnick because it was not priority.

You know Pinnick dream was to have SE comprised of players who had their footballing experience abroad (We know it means player born abroad or those who move abroad at a very young age).

And when you complain about the boldened part it means that you hate foreign born players. Nothing would give me more joy than for my British born son to play for the Super Eagles. However, even if it happened, I would not want grassroots football development to be neglected in Nigeria.

You are a very able lawyer.
If you were in the mood, you'd pick apart fabio's points above very easily.
But you have let it ride because you have no 'love' for Pinnick.

Okay, imagine I have hired you to destroy Mr Fabiyoyo's assertions.
I'm sure you'd see the flaws in his argument - particularly how he has presented opinion as if fact.

Pinnick was a poor NFF chairman. But so was Maigari. Im not sure where you afe seeing your imaginary Pinnick agenda. But it is a fact that Maigari established a successful U-15 program. It is also a fact that it disappeared under Pinnick.

[Damunk]

Okay, imagine I have hired you to destroy Mr Fabiyoyo's assertions.
I'm sure you'd see the flaws in his argument - particularly how he has presented opinion as if fact.

Pinnick was a poor NFF chairman. But so was Maigari. Im not sure where you afe seeing your imaginary Pinnick agenda. But it is a fact that Maigari established a successful U-15 program. It is also a fact that it disappeared under Pinnick.

The argument isn’t about whether Pinnick was a ‘poor’ Chairman or mot. That’s too subjective.
My point is how we can ‘pick and choose’ facts to suit our agenda or our biases.

I just want someone to bring up factual evidence to support claims like, “the first thing Pinnick did when he became Chairman was to scrap the youth development programs”
Really?
And everyone just accepts that as fact?
Was this a fact too?
And what exactly did it mean? What was going on there? What happened next?

This is why I’ve asked whether people are stating (or supporting) “the truth, the whole truth and nothing but.”
Are facts being conveniently forgotten or even deliberately left out?

Who is being disingenuous here? Me?

[Disclaimer:]
This is not ‘evidence’ that I am in love with Pinnick, because that’s the next thing we will hear.

[Bigpokey24]

Damunk why don't you practice the habit of researching? You always ask questions and in today's world you should learn to research

[Sunset]

[aruako1]

Okay, imagine I have hired you to destroy Mr Fabiyoyo's assertions.
I'm sure you'd see the flaws in his argument - particularly how he has presented opinion as if fact.

Pinnick was a poor NFF chairman. But so was Maigari. Im not sure where you afe seeing your imaginary Pinnick agenda. But it is a fact that Maigari established a successful U-15 program. It is also a fact that it disappeared under Pinnick.

The argument isn’t about whether Pinnick was a ‘poor’ Chairman or mot. That’s too subjective.
My point is how we can ‘pick and choose’ facts to suit our agenda or our biases.

I just want someone to bring up factual evidence to support claims like, “the first thing Pinnick did when he became Chairman was to scrap the youth development programs”
Really?
And everyone just accepts that as fact?
Was this a fact too?
And what exactly did it mean? What was going on there? What happened next?

This is why I’ve asked whether people are stating (or supporting) “the truth, the whole truth and nothing but.”
Are facts being conveniently forgotten or even deliberately left out?

Who is being disingenuous here? Me?

[Disclaimer:]
This is not ‘evidence’ that I am in love with Pinnick, because that’s the next thing we will hear.

Well maybe you can tell me what happened to the U-15 program then. It seems to have disappeared. What came of the Zenith "partnership"? I spoke about both Pinnick and Maigari being poor because of your unfounded claim that I had an agenda against Pinnick.

[Damunk]

Okay, imagine I have hired you to destroy Mr Fabiyoyo's assertions.
I'm sure you'd see the flaws in his argument - particularly how he has presented opinion as if fact.

Pinnick was a poor NFF chairman. But so was Maigari. Im not sure where you afe seeing your imaginary Pinnick agenda. But it is a fact that Maigari established a successful U-15 program. It is also a fact that it disappeared under Pinnick.

The argument isn’t about whether Pinnick was a ‘poor’ Chairman or mot. That’s too subjective.
My point is how we can ‘pick and choose’ facts to suit our agenda or our biases.

I just want someone to bring up factual evidence to support claims like, “the first thing Pinnick did when he became Chairman was to scrap the youth development programs”
Really?
And everyone just accepts that as fact?
Was this a fact too?
And what exactly did it mean? What was going on there? What happened next?

This is why I’ve asked whether people are stating (or supporting) “the truth, the whole truth and nothing but.”
Are facts being conveniently forgotten or even deliberately left out?

Who is being disingenuous here? Me?

[Disclaimer:]
This is not ‘evidence’ that I am in love with Pinnick, because that’s the next thing we will hear.

Well maybe you can tell me what happened to the U-15 program then. It seems to have disappeared. What came of the Zenith "partnership"? I spoke about both Pinnick and Maigari being poor because of your unfounded claim that I had an agenda against Pinnick.

This is what happened.
We discussed it in April this year and you even contributed to the thread. Note Gotti’s excellent factual contributions to the thread.

This is why I say when people find an opinion that chimes with their own sentiment, they’re not really interested in finding out whether it’s true or not.
They just run with it.

I’m not saying you have an “agenda against Pinnick”. I’m just saying you are less interested in an accurate portrayal of what he has or hasn’t done because he is not your favourite cup of tea.
Don’t worry, we understand.

As for Zenith Bank, they ran the U15 tournament for a few years as shown in the above link but it seems MTN then took over the sponsorship later this year.

So you see, the whole truth wasn’t provided and nobody bothered to check. You probably wouldn’t have known all this had I not pointed it out even though you were part of the discussion in April.
So I am not being ‘disingenuous’ as suggested by Fabiyoyo.

I’m sure, if anyone could be bothered to look into the “neglect” of the NPFL, some more interesting points will emerge.
I want to know what the parameters of neglect actually are.

I’m still searching for the thread in which I raised the question in more detail and in which everyone dodged the Q.

[Disclaimer:]
This is not ‘evidence’ that I am in love with Pinnick, because that’s the next thing we will surely hear.

[fabio]

This is what happened.
We discussed it in April this year and you even contributed to the thread. Note Gotti’s excellent factual contributions to the thread.

This is why I say when people find an opinion that chimes with their own sentiment, they’re not really interested in finding out whether it’s true or not.
They just run with it.

I’m not saying you have an “agenda against Pinnick”. I’m just saying you are less interested in an accurate portrayal of what he has or hasn’t done because he is not your favourite cup of tea.
Don’t worry, we understand.

As for Zenith Bank, they ran the U15 tournament for a few years as shown in the above link but it seems MTN then took over the sponsorship later this year.

So you see, the whole truth wasn’t provided and nobody bothered to check. You probably wouldn’t have known all this had I not pointed it out even though you were part of the discussion in April.
So I am not being ‘disingenuous’ as suggested by Fabiyoyo.

I’m sure, if anyone could be bothered to look into the “neglect” of the NPFL, some more interesting points will emerge.
I want to know what the parameters of neglect actually are.

I’m still searching for the thread in which I raised the question in more detail and in which everyone dodged the Q.

[Disclaimer:]
This is not ‘evidence’ that I am in love with Pinnick, because that’s the next thing we will surely hear.

I can only look and laugh (apologies to Fela)

There is a difference btw the National Under-13 and 15 team and NPFL/La Liga (under-15) Tournament.

You need better research assistants!

[Otitokoro]

Fabio & Damunk, if I can jump in...
We cannot discountenance the fact that when Pinnick took over from Maigari, he was immediately embroiled in court battles with Chris Giwa (as well as Giwa's countryman, the then Sports Minister Dalung, who withheld funding the NFF in order to frustrate Pinnick). This fight and cessation of funding the NFF lasted for several years, prompting Pinnick to seek funding in the private sector (which he was successful in doing after all the battles in court).

Point is: there were hard and tough financial decisions Pinnick had to make, leading to non investments or participation in some of the traditional age grade competitions we traditionally used to be a part of. The SE was indeed the flagbearer for the nation, hence the focus on them at the expense of even the SF.

All that bruhaha did a disservice to Nigerian football, through no fault of Pinnick's. He did the best he could to govern Nigerian football under such dire circumstances, including zero funding from the Govt (leading to his efforts to reduce Nigerian Football's dependency on the Federal Govt which seems to be bearing fruit).

Lolly I hear you….We have won AFCON 3 times 1980, 1994, and 2013 on each occasion that Nigeria won there was some semblance of organization, the issues that bedevil Nigerian football on those occasions seem to take a back seat for awhile then long spells of drought because there is no short, medium, or long term planning and investment. Has NFF ever thought of a blueprint for developing football in Nigeria that is to be implemented by those that run the federation regardless of who is at the helm? Is the Nigerian footballing public asking for too much when it asks for basic organizational skills, accountability, and a merit based system? If the goal is be a great footballing nation how do you get around not implementing the fundamentals?

Nigerians are not asking too much but there seems to be a fundamental problem when it comes to organisation.
Nigeria is not short of brilliant minds but the question is, what happens when they are asked to run or be part of an institution?.
Maybe things actually are worse than before but I vaguely recall times going back to childhood when my dad and my uncles were constantly criticising the NFA and our failure to qualify for big tournaments.
So I’m not sure it was eldorado even back then.

My current travails with a big private institution in Nigeria just reminds me yet again that the dreaded ‘N factor’ compromises every single thing you do, even when you have the best intentions. Your good intentions, your integrity and your ability is actually a problem for too many people you have to work with or through.

Damunk, am sorry, your being disingenuous to 404 point on development football.

Maigari administration started a developmental programme. The first thing, Pinnick when he became NFF chairman, was to scrap programme. More currently, Nigeria didn't send a secondary school to a CAF competition because SE is the priority.

Olympics football, which had been an area to expose players to a much higher level of international competition and experience, we didn't qualify under Pinnick because it was not priority.

You know Pinnick dream was to have SE comprised of players who had their footballing experience abroad (We know it means player born abroad or those who move abroad at a very young age).

[Damunk]

Fabio & Damunk, if I can jump in...
We cannot discountenance the fact that when Pinnick took over from Maigari, he was immediately embroiled in court battles with Chris Giwa (as well as Giwa's countryman, the then Sports Minister Dalung, who withheld funding the NFF in order to frustrate Pinnick). This fight and cessation of funding the NFF lasted for several years, prompting Pinnick to seek funding in the private sector (which he was successful in doing after all the battles in court).

Point is: there were hard and tough financial decisions Pinnick had to make, leading to non investments or participation in some of the traditional age grade competitions we traditionally used to be a part of. The SE was indeed the flagbearer for the nation, hence the focus on them at the expense of even the SF.

All that bruhaha did a disservice to Nigerian football, through no fault of Pinnick's. He did the best he could to govern Nigerian football under such dire circumstances, including zero funding from the Govt (leading to his efforts to reduce Nigerian Football's dependency on the Federal Govt which seems to be bearing fruit).

He said it loud and clear on several occasions in the early days that private funding was the way forward. Notice that it is not a favourite subject brought up by fans.

He also said that “winning cups for winning’s sake “ was not what they would be focussing on (implying that the U15 and U13 programmes would be approached differently).
I think he scrapped the U13 national programme completely, which I have always agreed with anyway. You just need to read the Awoniyi story to see how these kids - barely out of primary school - are travelling thousands of miles, often alone, just to get that break.

[Eaglezbeak]

With due respect Morocco is better organised than Nigeria. Did you hear of coaches being owed for one year or of players that refused to play a match because they are being owed allowances for 3 years? Have you seen their national team shoot themselves in the foot by playing home games on a terrible pitch?...Who do you think would adapt better and have more motivation to play for such a chaotic country?An Osimhen that grew up in the slums of Lagos and is used to such a system or a Musiala( by the way, his dad is Nigerian) that has lived his entire life in an organised society?... There are many factors to consider bedore making such a comparism.

It makes me laugh,these fans expect a boy that harnessed his skills in nations where things such as 24hr electricity and clean running water are a given should just drop what they’re doing and join a boys club where staff go unpaid?
You can’t compare Morocco to Nigeria, someone born in France or Belgium wouldn’t find Morocco too hard transition choosing a national team.